this is absolutely fantastic !!, much more complex (rhythmically speaking) than the western approach and at the meantime, spelling those "gatis" makes it very much easier to grab as a rhythmic language.
I have the book Applying Karnatic Rythmical Techniques to Weastern Music. Your explaination is a great starting point for understanding the book thanks.
thank you so much! I’ve studied some of this in the past but your explanation makes everything clearer and the method of study you suggest is awesome! thanks again and buena vida! greetings from Argentina!
This method seems so much easier than the standard 1e&a, etc. method of western music. I'm only just tickling the tip of the iceberg with this stuff but I think it'll be really useful. Thanks!
Amazing stuff. I had been working with the rhythms on my instrument and feeling the subdivisions, but verbalizing each as a different syllable makes it so much easier, thank you very much.
Beautiful, You are giving life to this book (: And you are making the knowledge in it much more accesible by breaking down the theory into simple segments and designing practical excercises. Thank you so much for the effort. I will get back again and again to this video because I feel it like the perfect fundamentals of applied rythm
That was really helpful. I've always wanted to work on subdivisions ( I'm a drummer) . But counting in Western ways wasn't helping. But this just change everything. Thanks!
Very nice lesson, especially the idea of practicing note groupings with all the possible permutations is very interesting, I was searching for a way to truly "feel" these odd time signatures and groupings and I think these exercises are the right path! Thank you, I'm looking forward to the next lesson!
Thanks for the effort. It's interesting, also, to see this kind of innovation coming out of the Sweelinck in Amsterdam. In 1975 or 76 Ton de Leeuw, another early innovator, invited Sitar maestro, & Amsterdam resident, Jamal ud din Bhartiya to perform and introduce Indian classical music to students of the Conservatory. As beginning Tabla student I attended both demonstrations, and I recall very clearly the shocking reaction of the Conservatory students who were present. One claimed he could do anything "like that" on his electric guitar. Another complained he heard nothing "vernieuwend" (innovative) in the music. A third inquired smugly if Meneer Bhartiya was familiar with the 12 tone system. No one else had any questions. Times have changed for the better.
Really interesting, Maestro. I will buy your precious book. I play Western and Asian (chinese and japanese) music, and now I get a new musici chance with you!
Great series Jason, I'm teaching the same material that I learned at KCP in Bangalore to my students at the University of Music and Fine Arts in Mannheim. Kita Taka Thari Kita Tom....
Good night, Jason! I was wondering if you could give me one or two online classes a month. Two of his videos were the most in-depth on the subject on UA-cam. I would like to understand why other syllables like "dim", for example, in permutations. I want to master the logic of syllables in permutations. I await your return. Thank you very much.
awesome stuff well put together and explained! i am a drummer and have looked into this type of rhythm before inspired by drummers such as pete lockett definitely worth checking out if you have the time. Working on this material really consolidates you control over subdivision and time great for any instrumentalists precision and accuracy. Thanks again for the great content would love more.
dagadbm thanks! Although, I do run into some people that get quite angry when you introduce a concept that challenges how they're used to doing something... see my videos on irrational time signatures...
i am trying to learn this. started learning jeau d'eau of ravel and has a LOT of these complex rithms. I also used the same book as you told here but this is very hard :( it seems that I forgot how to count tempo when I am learning this way. Did this happen to you? Can you link me that video?
You can use either... the syllables come from an oral tradition, so they're not completely fixed. When I write, I seem to always use Takaghinaton, but when I say it, I'll use whichever comes out more naturally. That's the main thing, whichever syllable flows most naturally for you to express the rhythm.
Hey Jason, Great lesson -- very excited to learn more and practice the methods you laid out here. Also, could you fix the link to the written version of this lesson? It appears to be broken.
But, those rhythms essentially exist in western music in the form of odd time signatures, the only difference being the relationship with the actual tempo. For example, the sequence at 14:40 could be written without any of the tuplet indicators and in a 5/16 time signature, adjusting the tempo to 62.5 (50 * (5/4)). It is true, though, that thinking about it as tuplets and keeping the tempo the same allows for much a much easier way to combine different gati (otherwise you'd have to indicate a tempo + time sig change every time). My point is, though, that the novelty here is more the internalisation of the relationship between different subdivisions of the beat, rather than the different permutations of rhythms, because those are already present in certain kinds of western music via odd time signatures.
kikones34 sure of course they exist in western music. The point of this method using the Indian approach and applying it to western music. And you’re exactly right, rather than changing time signature and tempo, you can use this for metric modulations.
Awesome Information man! Thanks! btw, what software do you use for the music figures and red animated tempo explanation? I will really appreciate if you help me to get such a tool for teaching. THANKS A LOT.
Where can I download it? I'm from Argentina, and I don't have a credit card, I would use it only for my personal study! I would really apreciate if someone could share it! thanks!
Awesome material, one question though: exactly when does a tie-over end? if you take Khanda: five matras and five claps, and we have a tie-over from the first matra to the second, just like the video's first 4-note permutation: Ta2 ta1 ki1 te1. You begin to say "Ta" ON the first clap, should it then end at the start of the third clap?
Nick Dino well, that depends on the rhythm you want... if you want a note twice the length of the other matras, hold it until the next note begins. If you want a note followed by a rest, just hold it for the normal length of the matra.
I think that books is really good but it's really expensive for me... :( is another book that I can found in pdf or something to keep learning this? :(
Question: are the different matras syllables indicative of either differnt instruments used...like voice or drum...or maybe more regional dialects of the same concept. Like I see for Quinuplets the Da Di Gi Na Dum used more often than Ta Ka Ghi Na Ton. ...it's the same thing really...so why the difference?
The syllables are really just a basis to start from. They’re not actually fixed or anything. A lot of times I end up saying Ta Di Ghi Na Ton, or may put a Dum at the end, particularly if it’s the end of a phrase. Whatever syllable come out of your mouth the most easily while keeping in time is the one you should use.
@@JasonAlder that makes alot of sense: use what works best. I find that, even for tripplets, my mouth doesn't want to use the traditional matra phrase when I go super fast. I use "Ta keh ta" .. it just rolls easier for me. Thank you for the answer and thank you for sharing this with the world!
Thank you for this video. With it things get much more understandable! Quick question though : while doing cell permutation, is there a way to define the syllables used in the chosen sequence or is it left to the appreciation of the musician?
Simon Gilbert you can define them if you want, but ultimately the point of the syllables is to allow the flow of the rhythm. So there are certain rhythms that I do tend to use certain syllables with, but if sticking to them actually means it trips up a rhythm, then I’ll use whatever more naturally comes out.
Simon Gilbert I’m also more likely to use some fixed syllables when it’s just beat subdivision like this lesson is about. But with more complex rhythms, part of the point of this system is the way that it’s easy to rephrase a rhythm, particularly when you’re doing things across beats or in polyrhythms. So then I’ll use whatever syllables are necessary to most accurately perform the rhythm.
So is there a strict set of syllables for groupings of 5? In various other places across the internet I've heard "Ta Ti Ke Na Dom," "Da Di Ge Ne Do," etc. Does it matter what syllables are used? Do different syllables correlate to different things? I'm confused by this and would love your clarification!
No, it is not strict. It is something like Ta ka ghe na ton, but exactly what syllables get used is up to the performer and how they articulate. When it's fast, it's likely to change as well into whatever rolls off the tongue easiest.The important thing is that a syllable is coming in the right time. Also it can change if you want to accent it differently.
Many thanks Jason for the presentation of the material, it helps me a lot. As an alternative to the presented book you presented (Reina, 2015) I want to indicate to Reinas PhD Thesis (2014). Reina, R. (2015). Applying Karnatic rhythmical techniques to Western music. Burlington, VT: Ashgate. Reina, R. (2014). Karnatic rhythmical structures as a source for new thinking in western music (PhD Thesis). Brunel University School of Arts, London. [bura.brunel.ac.uk/handle/2438/8204]
Hello! First of all, thank you very much for the video! I'm from Argentina, and I'm sorry if my English is not the best. I have a question: how can I name the beats of the subdivision? for example: The why of the crotches is called "Ta", and in other places it is called "dim". The same situation in the parentheses: "ta" and "dim" y, and the semicorche is called "ke", "ta" and "ka". I know when in Kanda, the name of five beats is "ta-ka-ghe-na-ton", but how can I know when it is one or another name, when they permutation the beats? if I want to create my own exercises, and another relation of beats. Very, very thanks!!!
Hi Matt, matras are for subdivisions of a beat. Quarter note and half note triplets extend longer than 1 beat, so those are actually polyrhythms (3:2 and 3:4, respectively). 16th note triplets would be tisra 2nd speed.
The syllables aren't actually fixed in Karnatic music, so the most important thing is to use syllables that allow the music to flow. Generally, longer notes on a downbeat I use a Ta or Da, and longer notes off the beat a Dim, but this is just what come naturally for me personally. so a dotted 8th 16th pattern could be Ta--ka Ta--ka Ta--ka, but reversed so 16th dotted 8th I would tend to use TaDim-- TaDim-- TaDim---
I noticed with the septuplets you varied the syllables To me it sounded like you used ta-ke-di-mi-ta-ke-ta and ta-ke-di-mi-ta-ki-te Did I hear correctly? And if so can you explain why you did this and is one syllable combination better than the other?
ADayWithoutYesterday yes, it's quite possible I did vary them. The syllables aren't actually a fixed thing, so sometimes they change slightly based on what most naturally comes out in that moment. One is not necessarily better or more correct than the other, so long as they flow well.
@@JasonAlder Iam prasanth from kerala India learning Hindustani bansuri from Sri Himanshu Nanda disciple of pandit hariprasad chaurasia Ji. Iam from South India. People in South India didn't much more aware of this konnakkol. Hats of u prasanthlfad@gmail.com
![These 2 Indian Rhythm Exercises Will Destroy You [ADVANCED RHYTHM THEORY + KONNAKOL]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/duBOlIt9uMI/mqdefault.jpg)
Very very very very good!
Thank you very much!
Hi, you are a great teacher, this is something so complex (odd meters on western), and you explained it so easy
Taking my drumming to a new level with this
this is absolutely fantastic !!, much more complex (rhythmically speaking) than the western approach and at the meantime, spelling those "gatis" makes it very much easier to grab as a rhythmic language.
excelente jason.muy buenas lecciones.muchas gracias!!!!!
This is the best ever video of konnakols ever seen
Outstanding lesson, one of the clearest presentations of this material I have ever come across. Thank you
I have the book Applying Karnatic Rythmical Techniques to Weastern Music. Your explaination is a great starting point for understanding the book thanks.
It’s a very thorough book… but I feel like it can be a bit daunting, especially if you’re not already familiar with the system. Glad I could help!
thank you so much! I’ve studied some of this in the past but your explanation makes everything clearer and the method of study you suggest is awesome! thanks again and buena vida!
greetings from Argentina!
I just recently started getting into Konnakol, this lesson gave me a great insight of how I should approach it thanks very much :)
This method seems so much easier than the standard 1e&a, etc. method of western music. I'm only just tickling the tip of the iceberg with this stuff but I think it'll be really useful. Thanks!
Very well explained. Excellent!
Amazing stuff. I had been working with the rhythms on my instrument and feeling the subdivisions, but verbalizing each as a different syllable makes it so much easier, thank you very much.
Beautiful, You are giving life to this book (: And you are making the knowledge in it much more accesible by breaking down the theory into simple segments and designing practical excercises. Thank you so much for the effort. I will get back again and again to this video because I feel it like the perfect fundamentals of applied rythm
Thank you Jason.
This was really useful. Will definitely incorporate some of this into my teaching alongside Kodály stuff. Thank you!!
This is one of the actually useful instructional videos on Konnakol on UA-cam, gives me atleast a month's work of practice time. Thank you!
That was really helpful.
I've always wanted to work on subdivisions ( I'm a drummer) . But counting in Western ways wasn't helping. But this just change everything. Thanks!
Nailed it sir thank you for not opening ableton
Edit: and for not confusing a flam for flan, among other silly things I’ve seen looking for this info
Very nice lesson, especially the idea of practicing note groupings with all the possible permutations is very interesting, I was searching for a way to truly "feel" these odd time signatures and groupings and I think these exercises are the right path! Thank you, I'm looking forward to the next lesson!
This is fascinating. Thank you so much for sharing it!
excellent collaboration to the musician comunity, awesome lesson man!, cheers from Chile,
I've been looking for this for so long, thank you so much! from Mexico
Thanks for the effort. It's interesting, also, to see this kind of innovation coming out of the Sweelinck in Amsterdam. In 1975 or 76 Ton de Leeuw, another early innovator, invited Sitar maestro, & Amsterdam resident, Jamal ud din Bhartiya to perform and introduce Indian classical music to students of the Conservatory. As beginning Tabla student I attended both demonstrations, and I recall very clearly the shocking reaction of the Conservatory students who were present. One claimed he could do anything "like that" on his electric guitar. Another complained he heard nothing "vernieuwend" (innovative) in the music. A third inquired smugly if Meneer Bhartiya was familiar with the 12 tone system. No one else had any questions.
Times have changed for the better.
This a goldmine of information, thanks!
Thank you for sharing so generously your knowledge. Very interesting, thank you!
I loved the video!! You explain very well!! It helped me very much in understanding carnatic music!! Thanks you very much!
Wonderful lesson! Thank you so much
one of the best lessons on the subject here on yt congrats
Brilliant.Thanks for your time .You did a great job.
Really interesting, Maestro. I will buy your precious book. I play Western and Asian (chinese and japanese) music, and now I get a new musici chance with you!
more lessons please! thank you!
Thanks a lot for your lesson. I have seen much of this but your explanation was superb!
Great series Jason, I'm teaching the same material that I learned at KCP in Bangalore to my students at the University of Music and Fine Arts in Mannheim. Kita Taka Thari Kita Tom....
brilliant job
Thanks a lot, this is really great Jason Alder! I have Rafael Reina's book, and I use some of the techniques in my own music.
Good night, Jason!
I was wondering if you could give me one or two online classes a month. Two of his videos were the most in-depth on the subject on UA-cam. I would like to understand why other syllables like "dim", for example, in permutations. I want to master the logic of syllables in permutations. I await your return.
Thank you very much.
Thanks. Top quality information !
Thank you for this. This is what I'v been looking for.
Thanks for sharing amazing lesson
Very good lesson , you are a genius man!
Isnt a 16th note ninelet supposed to be over 2 beats?
awesome stuff well put together and explained! i am a drummer and have looked into this type of rhythm before inspired by drummers such as pete lockett definitely worth checking out if you have the time. Working on this material really consolidates you control over subdivision and time great for any instrumentalists precision and accuracy. Thanks again for the great content would love more.
0 dislikes! you are on to something here! this is amazing
dagadbm thanks! Although, I do run into some people that get quite angry when you introduce a concept that challenges how they're used to doing something... see my videos on irrational time signatures...
i am trying to learn this. started learning jeau d'eau of ravel and has a LOT of these complex rithms. I also used the same book as you told here but this is very hard :(
it seems that I forgot how to count tempo when I am learning this way. Did this happen to you?
Can you link me that video?
also why did you use Ta ke gi na ton instead of ta di gi na ton as in the book ?
You can use either... the syllables come from an oral tradition, so they're not completely fixed. When I write, I seem to always use Takaghinaton, but when I say it, I'll use whichever comes out more naturally. That's the main thing, whichever syllable flows most naturally for you to express the rhythm.
What a work... Wow!
Very nice sir Thanks
thank you for your videos
this is a really good lesson video!
amazing lesson! Thanks!
Hey Jason, Great lesson -- very excited to learn more and practice the methods you laid out here. Also, could you fix the link to the written version of this lesson? It appears to be broken.
Thanks for this video, looking forward to watch all this series, do you give private lessons perhaps?
Yes I do. Just send me an email
Great Video!
Super thanks 🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼
Thanks a lot
But, those rhythms essentially exist in western music in the form of odd time signatures, the only difference being the relationship with the actual tempo.
For example, the sequence at 14:40 could be written without any of the tuplet indicators and in a 5/16 time signature, adjusting the tempo to 62.5 (50 * (5/4)). It is true, though, that thinking about it as tuplets and keeping the tempo the same allows for much a much easier way to combine different gati (otherwise you'd have to indicate a tempo + time sig change every time).
My point is, though, that the novelty here is more the internalisation of the relationship between different subdivisions of the beat, rather than the different permutations of rhythms, because those are already present in certain kinds of western music via odd time signatures.
kikones34 sure of course they exist in western music. The point of this method using the Indian approach and applying it to western music. And you’re exactly right, rather than changing time signature and tempo, you can use this for metric modulations.
Awesome Information man! Thanks! btw, what software do you use for the music figures and red animated tempo explanation? I will really appreciate if you help me to get such a tool for teaching. THANKS A LOT.
thanks for the lesson buddy..it was of great help :)
Where can I download it? I'm from Argentina, and I don't have a credit card, I would use it only for my personal study! I would really apreciate if someone could share it! thanks!
thanks for the video, i am french is this method is in my language?
What do you do about rests within the gatis?
Great!!! Thanks a lot!!
Awesome material, one question though: exactly when does a tie-over end? if you take Khanda: five matras and five claps, and we have a tie-over from the first matra to the second, just like the video's first 4-note permutation: Ta2 ta1 ki1 te1. You begin to say "Ta" ON the first clap, should it then end at the start of the third clap?
Nick Dino well, that depends on the rhythm you want... if you want a note twice the length of the other matras, hold it until the next note begins. If you want a note followed by a rest, just hold it for the normal length of the matra.
I think that books is really good but it's really expensive for me... :( is another book that I can found in pdf or something to keep learning this? :(
Question: are the different matras syllables indicative of either differnt instruments used...like voice or drum...or maybe more regional dialects of the same concept. Like I see for Quinuplets the Da Di Gi Na Dum used more often than Ta Ka Ghi Na Ton. ...it's the same thing really...so why the difference?
The syllables are really just a basis to start from. They’re not actually fixed or anything. A lot of times I end up saying Ta Di Ghi Na Ton, or may put a Dum at the end, particularly if it’s the end of a phrase. Whatever syllable come out of your mouth the most easily while keeping in time is the one you should use.
@@JasonAlder that makes alot of sense: use what works best. I find that, even for tripplets, my mouth doesn't want to use the traditional matra phrase when I go super fast. I use "Ta keh ta" .. it just rolls easier for me. Thank you for the answer and thank you for sharing this with the world!
Thank you for this video. With it things get much more understandable!
Quick question though : while doing cell permutation, is there a way to define the syllables used in the chosen sequence or is it left to the appreciation of the musician?
Simon Gilbert you can define them if you want, but ultimately the point of the syllables is to allow the flow of the rhythm. So there are certain rhythms that I do tend to use certain syllables with, but if sticking to them actually means it trips up a rhythm, then I’ll use whatever more naturally comes out.
Simon Gilbert I’m also more likely to use some fixed syllables when it’s just beat subdivision like this lesson is about. But with more complex rhythms, part of the point of this system is the way that it’s easy to rephrase a rhythm, particularly when you’re doing things across beats or in polyrhythms. So then I’ll use whatever syllables are necessary to most accurately perform the rhythm.
Legend mate! 👍
So is there a strict set of syllables for groupings of 5? In various other places across the internet I've heard "Ta Ti Ke Na Dom," "Da Di Ge Ne Do," etc. Does it matter what syllables are used? Do different syllables correlate to different things? I'm confused by this and would love your clarification!
No, it is not strict. It is something like Ta ka ghe na ton, but exactly what syllables get used is up to the performer and how they articulate. When it's fast, it's likely to change as well into whatever rolls off the tongue easiest.The important thing is that a syllable is coming in the right time. Also it can change if you want to accent it differently.
Many thanks Jason for the presentation of the material, it helps me a lot.
As an alternative to the presented book you presented (Reina, 2015) I want to indicate to Reinas PhD Thesis (2014).
Reina, R. (2015). Applying Karnatic rhythmical techniques to Western music. Burlington, VT: Ashgate. Reina, R. (2014). Karnatic rhythmical structures as a source for new thinking in western music (PhD Thesis). Brunel University School of Arts, London. [bura.brunel.ac.uk/handle/2438/8204]
thanks a lot!
thank you !
Hello! First of all, thank you very much for the video! I'm from Argentina, and I'm sorry if my English is not the best. I have a question: how can I name the beats of the subdivision? for example:
The why of the crotches is called "Ta", and in other places it is called "dim". The same situation in the parentheses: "ta" and "dim" y, and the semicorche is called "ke", "ta" and "ka".
I know when in Kanda, the name of five beats is "ta-ka-ghe-na-ton", but how can I know when it is one or another name, when they permutation the beats? if I want to create my own exercises, and another relation of beats. Very, very thanks!!!
The syllables aren't fixed. You should use whatever syllables flow most naturally in order to say the phrase.
¡¡Thanks!!
What about quarter note triplets, half note triplets, and 16th note triplets? What are the matras for those ones?
Hi Matt, matras are for subdivisions of a beat. Quarter note and half note triplets extend longer than 1 beat, so those are actually polyrhythms (3:2 and 3:4, respectively). 16th note triplets would be tisra 2nd speed.
When you do rhythms that are diferents from these ( doted eights or an eight followed by a sixtineth in a triplet ) which silabe do you use?
The syllables aren't actually fixed in Karnatic music, so the most important thing is to use syllables that allow the music to flow. Generally, longer notes on a downbeat I use a Ta or Da, and longer notes off the beat a Dim, but this is just what come naturally for me personally. so a dotted 8th 16th pattern could be Ta--ka Ta--ka Ta--ka, but reversed so 16th dotted 8th I would tend to use TaDim-- TaDim-- TaDim---
Jason Alder thanks so much you helped a lot
I need to know the price of the book
Gracias, thak's
super sir
I noticed with the septuplets you varied the syllables To me it sounded like you used ta-ke-di-mi-ta-ke-ta and ta-ke-di-mi-ta-ki-te Did I hear correctly? And if so can you explain why you did this and is one syllable combination better than the other?
ADayWithoutYesterday yes, it's quite possible I did vary them. The syllables aren't actually a fixed thing, so sometimes they change slightly based on what most naturally comes out in that moment. One is not necessarily better or more correct than the other, so long as they flow well.
Ok thanks.
@@JasonAlder Iam prasanth from kerala India learning Hindustani bansuri from Sri Himanshu Nanda disciple of pandit hariprasad chaurasia Ji. Iam from South India. People in South India didn't much more aware of this konnakkol. Hats of u
prasanthlfad@gmail.com
🙏🙏🙏
Do you like Eric Dolphy?!
I just have one correction to make as i am indian i know that tisra is not a guys name it means third . Just thought you should know
Please call it 'Carnatic', since that seems to be the convention.
9:43
Great video!