I don't like that every Deck turns into a Combo Pile
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- Опубліковано 9 лют 2025
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I still think one of the most overlooked issues with power creep in yu-gi-oh is attack point creep, a 2014 combo board such as infernity consisted of a few 1800 attack monsters and the biggest being no bigger than 2400 usually. It meant half breaking the board usually meant you didn't lose turn 3. Now every boss monster is 3k+ and can be made for essentially free ontop of having removal like chaos angel, baronne and accesscode.
That's actually pretty on point and why Dinosaur was such a house when it came out. Going 2nd you could slam a UCT and just *wreck* a combo board if they couldn't stop it since his attack stat was hard to match for its time. Now a days it's a little different as we're starting to see bosses who are as big, or bigger than him.
Every Kashtira monster being 2400+ low key makes them so much more annoying to out
@@Bluestar899TCG ye exactly, monsters being above 3k like UCT made you the boss monster of your deck, not just a single part of your end board, dollka and lagia are both much smaller for example
@@ducky36F constantly recurring 2400+ bodies can be very difficult to repeatedly clear, especially when the field spell then boosts them further. I also think Kash has another power creep symptom though and it's combo pieces also being disruption, it's something I actually like it's starting to become really common, stuff like spright red/carrot, tear havenis, bystials, ishizu, Kash and a few more
They need to ban op generic extradeck boss monster like barrone, borreload , auroradon , etc
So many combo pile decks are the same "lol how fast can I made my different assortment of barron, appo, savage, and IP" aka new heavy samurai
This is exactly why people are starting to get into past formats more.
the problem is the only way for non-combo to be good is for them to start banning a lot of extra deck generic monsters. Accescode,baronne, zeus needs to go, probably borrelsword as well. Maybe even masq or unicorn.
@@Tyysst I don't think ip or unicorn need to go I think the others you mentioned do. The only reason I hesitate to ban removal cards like the knightmares is simply floodgates and control heavy decks.
It's almost like people are starting to see more and more that modern Yu-Gi-Oh kinda blows
The introduction of alternate formats into sanctioned ygo was their best decision. Could use more prize support than just the ladd mat but glad we've progressed out of db
@@Tyysst who even makes accesscode anymore except for mathmech? In other decks it's basically just there as a fallback if you get interrupted and you have extra link material lying around.
I think the issue is two-fold
Generic-boss monsters
Insanely good archetype monsters that don’t lock you into said archetypes
2nd one is one of the reasons why baxia is one of my fav monsters oat and why I don't understand why they couldn't just make denglong the same..
some cards shouldnt lock you, cause one of the coolest thing in this game to me is ppl making weird archetypes work together
Nothing infuriated me more than seeing superheavy samurai get this great new support and then seeing it only be used to crap out generic bullshit all because they neglected to put the superheavy lock on them
@zenbozic6184 You have a point, but if they don't lock you, the monster needs to be weaker. Not unplayable weak, just weaker, to compensate for its potential abuse in other decks. Which will happen.
Some boss monsters need to be weakened even if they're archetype locked. It doesn't matter if the card can only be summoned in one kind of deck if that card ends up making the deck just as unbeatable as it would other decks. Or worse. That one boss monster is so powerful it just becomes the entire deck (Their only win condition.)
I think it’s important to look at the identity of the deck and expand upon it. Altegeist was known for Hexstia and Multifaker, so with those two in mind, the perfect support would be a Trap that had an effect that could gain advantage when an “Altergeist monster removes a card from the field”. What cards do that? Hexstia, Silq, Meluseek, Marionetter, and even Primebanshee. let the card do other things of course, but i think Konami forgets to reflect upon the ideologies of the decks that they support sometimes. a card like this would still promote the core belief that the deck had and reward you for it
I don't disagree, but this new support does have Altergeist keep its identity. It's a link spam (field swarm) control deck. The new support enables it to that, but it's not a combo pile like Joshua says (that's what Tellarknight is). It's a short combo that recycles its starter, just like Salamangreat. I think it's a great way to modernize the deck.
Altergeist losing to Nibiru is a cursed sentence LOL
Another reason why Nibiru should be banned
@@haydenz0 ???????
@@haydenz0 didnt you watch anything?? no the issue is turning decks that are not supposed to be brainless combo piles into that, losing their identity in the process
@@haydenz0 bro is onto NOTHING 😂 💀💯
Traptrix isn’t a good example. It still gets to its end board of sera and raflesia + more trap holes.
I get what you mean about not wanting trap decks to become combo piles however for this deck in specific we have the Altergeist cards doing the work and even existing on the end board. And what do they do? They disrupt in very annoying ways which is the identity of Altergeist. Honestly, Superheavy lost its identity much more with the new support because while it’s old playstyle of big walls style was bad the new combo into generic bosses isn’t a good substitute which is why a lot of the actual SHS fans hated the new support, so bringing it up as a counterpoint to Altergeist new support, which still keeps you on the main disrupt with Altergeist game plan feels wrong.
Sky Striker was designed to be a Control deck with a recursive resource loop that could keep up with fast paced decks due to having built in spot removal that's easily searchable. The problem is they gave it an unrestrictive tool for Link climbing vertically that was too easy for other decks to use, and resulted in several of its best cards being stuck on the banlist longer than they needed to(Linkage is usually better than Drones, but using and playing against Bystials mandates running both cards). Not having a secondary option to search from deck in the Main Phase 1(or any to SET from deck) is also holding it back significantly compared to other decks getting more modern in-archetype tools. Better in-archetype graveyard setup tools for its "Mobilize" line, like a card to send a specific archetype card to grave in order to perform another setup action, would also be nice to have and would allow the deck to be playable as more than an engine to run alongside Bystials(which is unironically one of their best options now but still probably not the overall best way to play Bystials).
As far as the "replacement" Control decks:
Runick relying almost entirely on random card draw for its resource loop feels too incosistent to use standalone, and HOPT spot removal is as low impact as it gets. Runick Striker also feels a bit clunky thanks to both sides competing for the EMZ, hence why it ofteb gets paired with Spright and Synchro Combo tools instead that abuse the fact that its spells double as makeshift Instant Fusions, defeating the deck's initial purpose.
Labrynth feels poised to serve as the Trap equivalent to Striker, but the furniture are a little too highroll to use as the setup they were intended for, even Sky Striker always used Deep Draw cards to get around the "neg before you can plus" restrictions that have been keeping Engage on the banlist(when they could just hit more of the FTK enablers instead, not to mention how garbage Deep Draw gets after siding). The fact that it needs to spend the Solemn Strikes it uses for ensuring board wipes go through on Ash Blossom at times is also a bit embarassing.
And while I don't know enough about Purrely to give an accurate opinion of them, everything I've seen so far points to it being the less interesting parts of Zoodiac Striker, a build I'm familiar with but almost never play. Still not sure if the OCG is just bad at outing Towers monsters or if the resource loop is just that insane to warrant playing that over more "active" decks.
In regards to speed, to me, Swordsoul was the perfect spot to end mid-range at. And now, the current set equivalent of swoswo, is basically "way too fair"...
Disagree. Swordsoul is one of the decks that started this combo-pile-deck format.
You actually think that a 1 card into level 8 synchro + 2 more cards added to your hand is mid range-y and fair??
@@steberdeber6223 It is when your end board is two monsters and a set card. That's the definition of midrange.
Part of me thinks that the reason some of these archetypes are made the way they are is because they and the sets are designed with the OCG's banlist and format in mind. In particular Maxx "C". Combo Piles are not as common over there because of it vs here where the absence of the bug allows the west to lab out these things. Therefore the root of the problem that needs to be addressed is archetype design and moving away from "it's checked by Maxx "C"" since that only works in Japan and the west suffers as a consequence.
EDIT: Josh hit the nail on the head with Sky Striker. I've always said that Striker was Konami's attempt at making a then Modern Control deck adjusted to the speed of the game at that time. This was due to its engine being made up of powerful Spells instead of Monsters and Traps. Striker unlike say Geargia didn't HAVE to win the dieroll as with Engage, Anchor, Afterburners and more it could make an attempt at cracking the board then begin its gameplan. Striker also was a Control deck that played like the Control decks of retro formats (like Edison) where you try to interact, interrupt, out resource and out grind the opponent after making them slow down to your pace. This was a REMARKABLY refreshing change of pace as before Striker most control decks were actually Stun Decks in disguise with some exceptions. Unfortunately as the game went on, got faster and Striker suffered hits from the banlist it had no choice but to turn into that kind of Stun deck through the use of Floodgates and Mystic Mine which is unfortunate. I'd actually like to see Konami be ballsy and move Engage to 2 on the next Banlist. Or even 3. I almost want to think that with 3 Engage Sky Striker is still outgunned in 2023.
EDIT #2: A see alot of people in that chat coping on Vanquish Soul and yeah it's doing *okay* in OCG, but it's also not performing nearly as well as Purrely, Superheavy Samurai or a severely nerfed Kashtira. And it's also in a format where Maxx "C" exists which has shown to make the format kinda slower but not really. What the hell kind of chance does it have here in the much faster TCG Format? It'll be a decent rogue deck but by no means Meta.
The fact that shs is doing well there disproves that theory. Since the majority build their decks in order to counter Maxx c they lose they lose space for going second cards that would be more beneficial to draw into.
Not to mention decks like shs have so much extension that you are fucked if you do not draw that one specific handtrap, and you run the risk of drawing it to late if you have to rely on Maxx c.
Then you have decks like purrely that you have to be aware and need specific cards for but then can play whatever. Not only do you have Maxx c, but you have a handful of top decks that require specific handtraps, making it difficult for the rogue decks to do anything.
They know what they are doing. At some point they'll hit shs and purely hard, and probably get rid of block dragon too. Then VS will get its Meta warping cards and they'll be back to giving basic support to combo and making strong mid range archetyped
Regarding VS ,it's literally fresh outa deck build pack,it still has it's round of further support yet to come,it will only get better from here. Where was purely on release? Nowhere
@@raykirushiroyshi2752 if it’s able to translate well into tcg then I’ll be delightfully corrected.
If the new "support" removes the need for the old support, it's not support. It's a retrain, a replacement.
i can sympathize with the altergeist take as a rokket enthusiast. Since rokkets originally were a control strategy with borreload targeting the rokkets to disrupt the opponent. But then Borrelsword dropped to not really control, but OTK the opponent. The final nail in the coffin is borrelend, with rokkets being able to summon a link-5.
Runick standalone is designed as a deck-out deck. That's why it's not powerful on its own. It's a stun deck.
yep. it's not meant to kill as fast because played on it's own it's designed for very defensive play. it's why i like it more pure instead of it used as an engine like it's done in the meta.
that's why I hate it existing, its a cheesy strategy meant to circmvent interaction in the first place. Not a well designed deck.
@@keinkanal7382 yeah and it's backed by removal and negation effects paired with a draw 3 every turn. I get that pure runick isn't tier 1 or anything but saying they aren't powerful enough feels a little ridiculous
@@antonbrown17 I didnt say they're not powerful. I said it's cheesy. Apart from decking you out it has no other wincon. It's frustrating and nothing else.
Runick is not stun, it is control.
Which runick card stuns your opponent ?
If you play it pure, you want your opponent to play, because otherwise you can not start to banish cards from your opponent.
This guy hit the nail with the issue that YGO doesn't have any actual deckbuilding restriction other than the banlist.
I personally like that the creativity to build decks isn't restricted by in game rules/mechanics.
@@phoenix5095 its fine to like it but you also have to accept that that's one of the things that directly leads to this game being a broken mess at times.
@@phoenix5095 And then most of the built look the same. We have a lot of differentiation in this game, Konami doesn't need to lock all cards to their specific arctype, but maybe an arctype boss needs at least 1 card from their arctype is good. And the lock, they can just lock you into type, attribute, and/or summoning mechanic; and you can still creative with it.
@@renaldyhaen oh yea I definitely agree generic extra deck monsters should not be better than the in archetype's boss monsters because then it leads to every decks endboard being the exact same. What I'm saying is that I personally enjoy yugioh decks being able to play as many things as the player wants in their deck as along as its 40/60 cards
one idea that i think would be interesting, but would warp the game forever, and probably hard to monitor irl, would be a master rule where for every 3 monsters of the same attribute+type in the main, you could add one card to your extra of the same attribute+type. in addition, if you have 10 monsters of the same archetype in the main, you get 3 archetype extra deck slots for free
it would be incredibly unrealistic in paper but if there was a way to do it on simulators, it would allow for a lot of interesting deck building choices
I think a good solution is placing more locks onto more powerful cards. So like archetypes locking you in to their name, or how VW / Spright does it where you’re locked to certain levels / ranks
I really wish Labrynth was playable with zero floodgates. You go like +5 when you activate a normal trap (that removes monsters from the field) so that should be enough, but sometimes is not.
Furniture build is seeing more play and might actually be the way to play the deck going forward since it can play handtraps and go 2nd a lot easier. Which is sad for those that enjoy playing lots of traps but its still a midrange/control based playstyle that still appeals to a lot of people. You still rely on lingering trap floodes like erradicator virus but no need for skilldrain.
@@devonmantle6127 Furniture build is awful. You're supposed to grind, not to go minus for Welcome just to get Ash'd.
@@devonmantle6127 Sitting on cards that prevent the opponent from playing entirely is toxic though. If D-Barrier was banned, even "combo" Labrynth would promote back and forth interactions with tactical removal instead of "you can't use your cards". The problem of course is "omni-negates".
You can go full on handtraps with 6 Welcomes + very impactful one off traps (Big is 100% 3off but you can play 2 Welcome due to furniture, also Daruma makes the deck in TCG incomparably stronger to the OCG version) in order to improve your going second games, then shift into a trap heavy deck post side.
If the deck ever gets a "Welcome Labrynth Haunted Rock" style card (i mean that it can be activated the turn it is set by a labrynth effect) it would turn the furnitures into disruption (imo fairwelcome should have been that, without the battle phase shenanigans, and Archfiend should have SS itself from GY in order to be a free discard)
For example:
Farewelcome Labrynth NOW
When a monster declares an attack, while you control a Fiend monster: Target 1 card on the field; negate the attack, and if you do, destroy that targeted card, then, you can Set 1 non-"Labrynth" Normal Trap from your hand or Deck.
CHANGE
(1) If this card was Set by the effect of an "Labrynth" card, you can activate it the turn it was Set, also until the end of the next turn after this card resolves, you cannot Special Summon monsters from the Deck or Extra Deck, except Fiend monsters.
(2) When a monster effect is activated, or when a monster declares an attack: Target 1 card on the field; negate the attack or that effect, and if you do, destroy that targeted card, then, you can Set 1 non-"Labrynth" Normal Trap from your hand or Deck, also until the end of the opponent's next turn after this card resolves, you cannot activate Trap Cards, except Normal Traps.
@@CocTheElf It just isn't awful though or I don't think pros like Herman Hansson would be currently looking at it. I do agree the ash problem is annoying but depending on how popular ash is in peoples main decks next format that will become less of an issue. If your going 2nd vs a board and they have ash chances are u werent winning regardless of the labrynth version. I win plenty of games getting ash'd still even if it becomes a very close game. Furniture build just grinds better btw so weird point.
@@babrad Never said it wasn't toxic to sit on lingering traps just disagreeing with the person above saying normal traps aren't enough. You can cut erradicator from your deck in the furniture build and instead play daruma/punishment as your main normal trap and you still have a very good chance of winning even if u aren't playing the deck optimally. The idea that u can't win without floodes isn't entirely true however removing floodes from backrow strategies without hitting all the types of mass removal like evenly and lstorm would hurt these strategies way too much.
as battle effects got power crept, now mid range "grindy" decks are being power crept, because every deck has recovery in the archetype from effs in the gy, so being grindy is the normality.
Spheres pass, the perfect mid range deck 🐉
Even if you lock every future card to an archetype, not all archetypes are created equal. Some archetypes suck by design, lol
What's stopping them from printing better extra deck cards for said archetypes that "suck".
It feels like many of these piles aren't actually combo piles, they are still around the combo value of a modern midrange deck. Actual combo decks (the kind which have no follow up but your opponent should just scoop) haven't been the top decks of a format in a while. Overall it's just a sign that the pace of the game is only getting faster.
Resource oriented combo decks have been king for a real long time now, I think Bird up/tribrigade variants started that trend of comboing for card advantage, Tear was the magnum opus in that regard it doesn't use many negates and instead focuses on creating a massive resource disparity by playing on every turn.
Actually I think earth machine was the prototype for that style of playing to win on turn 3/4, turn 1 combo/win slowly died as we started printing stronger and stronger boardbreakers.
@@johnnywilson3071 Even earlier, actually: Adamancipator and Synchro Eldlich started that trend.
Adamancipator was so strong for two reasons: The Adamancipator engine was very good at breaking boards due to the high number of effects it could activate in a turn; and Block Dragon gave the deck near-perfect followup, allowing it to win games even if its board got broken.
Synchro Eldlich leaned even harder into the followup, and also was good going second into Trap decks, which played more powerful interruptions that Adamancipator couldn’t break through.
Infernoble Knights also got quite a bit of followup from Isolde and Roland.
Of the top 5 SESL/ETCO decks, it’s only really Dino (which wanted to go second anyway) and Dragon Link that neglected followup.
It wouldn't be so fast if people didn't encourage that.
@18:50 the stronger combos mean you actually have follow up after using going 2nd cards like evenly/imperm to bait negates. like just normal meluseek equals an accesscode going 2nd now(priveded there are 3 spells for selene)
One of my favourite design is the galaxy eyes cards. Cards like photon lord are made generic to summon with a decent effect, but using it in its own deck its a fantastic card. I feel like if konami limited the availability of generic power cards it could limit pile combo decks. For example, assume union carrier only equips unions from deck, or if it need a union to summon. As it stands because of how splashable the card was it made abc lose one of their best combo piece.
I think we kind of crossed the point of no return with Adamancipators. That was *the* wombo combo deck that premiered right as MR5 kicked off after MR4's sins, and where Konami made their stake on vomiting Extra Deck strategies being an expectation. True, we had combo decks in the past and the board breakers made to answer them like Nib and DRNM in 2019, but the geologists really feel like the stake in the coffin, which effectively said, "These kinds of decks are here to stay, and it's going to get worse."
And it has. We live in a society where backrow decks like Geist and Traptrix become midrange which is really just "I put out a portion of my ED but not enough to where you can call me combo tee hee," and the more "set and pass" like Lab and Eld are "floodgate or die." Because games end in 3 to 4 turns, and if you're setting a card that can only come online at effectively half the game's lifespan... it better be a *really* good card. And what better card than one which is a proactive boardbreaker?
Is there a fix to this? A few, we all know them, but I don't think Konami is interested in them. I think we're in for the long haul, and unless we get a saving grace with MR6... I wouldn't count on miracles.
ok, hear me out, what if we add quick effect kaijus that cannot be used as material for the summon of a monster's special summon or be tributed?
@@davidjimenez3822 XD remember adding " If this card leaves the field; it's controler discards 1 random card " lmao
@@davidjimenez3822 NO. This is the reason this game doesnt ever actaully get better at solving problems. We dont need more "band-aid fix" cards. We need problems to ACTUALLY be adresse and certain card designs to be steered away from. A "quick effect kaiju" doesnt fix the problem. It just makes it worse.
@@trippersigs2248 & because Konami wouldn't listen to us, the playerbase, as they're deaf of coins stacking, there's no way for us to reach them about these problems
I think that the real issue with control decks is that they haven't gone through the renaissance yet. Only recently are we getting support that searches control cards like traps and spells, or synergize with them aka Labrynth.
The extra deck is a massive Toolbox but outside of say a rank 4 like Baromet, what can one run that will help you control? Granite for Lord of heavenly prison at best.
So first they need to actually make control tools, in that aspect the Link 4 of altergeist is fine. However it should not have been a link 4, if it was like a link 1 that needed an altergeist link I don't think anyone would say omg Altergeist is now combo, it's the fact that in order to give it the support they had to make 3 other cards to give you the resources for it.
Now I don't really hate giving speed to archetypes. Personally being able to play my old archetype in a new unexpected way due to it's generalness simply gives me more things to be happy. But I really hope for more trap card support like hand traps, don't know why bee is rng much less why its a monster. And what Tear and Ishizu brought to the table, I think being able to simply summon a name as a hand trap and do something to move your plan forward or hinder your opponent is exactly what control needs.
If you couple those 3 things we could see decks that don't rely on making a big pop off board but rather, resource generation ala eldlich. It's still a speed up, but I'm certain that it would lower the speed down, since they would be strats that are aiming for the grind game, all they really need is a chance while going second.
The idea that midrange means player 1 gets a second turn is mind blowing to me LOL
Altergeist was not to be sped up to the same pace as the meta, it's supposed to be the deck that forces your opponent to play at your pace, which is why is liked it a lot.
I said the exact same sentence to a friend who quit the game some years ago and is now less willing than ever on playing again...
I hate the fact that if your deck doesn't threaten lethal immediately, your deck is unplayable. Not even at a disadvantage, just unplayable because you'll die immediately
Ah yes, Naturia Runick is unplayable
Currently the game as it is now is beyond saving when it comes to curbing the impact of combo decks imo. The game has for the majority of formats been like this ever since the Performage Pendulum pile redefined how it is played in 2015. I used to be against set rotation because I always hated the idea of not being able to play with old cards but at this point I think that an alternative format with a completely new card pool and rotation is the only way to bring back slow, grindy Yugioh unless Konami would be willing to do a hard reset by putting hundreds of cards on the banlist which is probably even more unlikely than actual set rotation or alternative formats. They can keep the game as it is now, some people enjoy combo decks after all (myself included on occasion) but it would be nice if there were alternative sanctioned ways to play the game without having to participate in the constant combofest.
That alternative already exist, it's called speed duel, and it's awesome
Slower decks also have a harder time because of the time rules. Because they need to play more turns and specialy control type of decks need more time to think. Following combo lines is very simple if you are familiar enough with ur deck but finding the perfect spot to interrupt your opponent one a deck the you don’t know blindly can be difficult. In the end you when you run in time you have less plays you can do and it is general harder for slow decks to summon out a random burn monster than for combo.
I feel like the problem is just that Konami ignores the fact that generic boss monsters exist and just leave them mostly untouched. An example being accesscode.
a fancy way to fix the game is a deckbuilding restriction like Gwent or Force of Will (with divinity et simila), where every card has a score, and by rules, you cannot put cards whose total score is higher than a total.
these games used a very simple way to give scores:
if the card is non-archetype related, but has high sinergy with other decks --> higher score
if the card is very impactful --> higher score
if the card fixes consistency issues --> extremely higher score
this way decks tended to self balance a lot (oc, there had been tier0 formats)
How to Solve Modern Control: "Make (Counter) Trap Monster as strong as 1 Dragoon or unaffected" 🐧 Then we can see combo-ing 15 minutes are pointless when we can just set 1 counter trap and pass, even for going second -> More mid-range/control... I hope
I said the same fuckin thing as soon as I saw the altergeist support. Just another cool and interesting control deck turned into a combo deck where you vomit your hand onto the board and set up enough negates to stop your opponent from being able to play the game. There's no resource management at all in this game anymore, the fusion decks seem to be the only archtypes that are actually interesting and have cool grind games and back and forth. Tear and branded are both really interesting in that they don't really set up any negates (branded expulsion is an exception), and they mostly just out-advantage the opponent in a grind game. The problem is that most other archtypes haven't been built to do that, they just shit their hand onto the field and pass turn and hope it's enough. Sometimes it is, and sometimes the opponent draws dark ruler into evenly matched. So when these other archtypes built around speed and extending to the moon enter a grind game, they have nothing left, so there is no grind game. You either win on turn 1, or you scoop because you're playing against a deck that actually has grind game.
I know I noted only the fusion archtypes, but labrynth, runick, even floowandereeze, have really cool ways to grind games and have consistent ways, that all have noteable counterplay options, and none of them set up boards (anymore at least) that really prevent your opponent from playing the game. Maybe some floodgates showing up here and there are exceptions, but that's just because konami, for some god forsaken reason, has been consistently unlimiting all of these ridiculous floodgate cards, like skill drain, also macro and di-fi recently.
I think one good cross-archtype thing they could do to slightly fix this problem is ban the broken generic negate extra deck monsters, and the otk machines.
I would ban:
Appollousa
Borreload Savage dragon
Baron de fleur
Accesscode
Borrelsword
ip: masquerena
knightmare unicorn
Zeus
Honestly the biggest offenders are those first 3, and maybe also zeus. Accesscode has been a bit less popular recently, but the card is still beyond disguting. There's also probably more that I'm forgetting about, but the above are the first that came to mind and are pretty ubiquitous to any deck. Like even kashtira runs baron just because you can normal ash to make it in a pinch.
There's also the fact that Konami be giving certain archetypes floodgates when we dislike floodgates in general.
It's difficult to take into account every little thing that can be of importance to the design of the game. Speed Duels & Rush Duels need to be present for the world to experience (along with other alternative TCG formats) because let's face the facts: TCG is falling off hard. They are so driven with greed, don't ever listen to their playerbase, using banlists to hit cards that would be in the way with whatever new product sets have in store, ntm be very behind in cards needed to be hit, & certain words or phrases in card design are hard to keep a memory of that can help provide balance & be better in intention to what's provided. I think for right now, TCG is considering pushing out accessories with can be the start to really move away from using the main game for their revenue grind. We need to show them a demand for those accessories, so they can focus on improving the accessory design & promote them more in their commercials & ads. That is our purpose as the YuGiOh community for right now.
It's probably because the developers probably don't play test their cards when designing. That's how power creep got so crazy that they've dug themselves into a hole in terms of card design. As long as their card design team doesn't change, nothing short of a rule overhaul will change this issue. Ban list is just a band aid that's too late and basically used to move product more than balance the game
Exactly. It's difficult to take into account every little thing that can be of importance to the design of the game. Speed Duels & Rush Duels need to be present for the world to experience (along with other alternative TCG formats) because let's face the facts: TCG is falling off hard. On top of what was said they are so driven with greed, don't ever listen to their playerbase, & certain words or phrases in card design are hard to keep a memory of that can help provide balance & be better in intention to what's provided. I think for right now, TCG is considering pushing out accessories with can be the start to really move away from using the main game for their revenue grind. We need to show them a demand for those accessories, so they can focus on improving the accessory design & promote them more in their commercials & ads. That is our purpose as the YuGiOh community for right now.
People may dislike this, but I think unless konami actually makes massive changes to the game and/or banlist, the best way to create control decks without turning them into combo decks are to make more havnis cards. Like imagine if we got an altergeist trap that is like an imperm, where it can be used on turn 1, by revealing an altergeist monster, or a monster that triggers on an opponent's effect of some kind where you get to interact with the opponent going second. I think we either do that, or konami will keep printing more combo support.
OR master rule 6 lets plays place any number of spell/traps on the field face-down before the game actually starts, and they're activatable. Yes traps get a lot better, we might have to ban solemn judgment and a lot of floodgates, but at the end of the day the format would probably be a lot more interactive and less combo-oriented.
I think, while it is a slight change for Altergeist's playstyle, it is a good change. Its a short combo that ends with the starter being recycles and having a few interactions. This is FAR healthier than Normal Summon set floodgate playstyle it had before. So I have to disagree with Joshua here. Making older decks use modern principles of having small combos is fine.
However, I will agree with Joshua, as a Tellarknight player myself, that Tellarknight turning into a wombo combo deck is boring and not a good direction. It should have retained its playstyle of using a starter every turn to pump out a rank 4, but become modernized (maybe 2 rank 4s every turn instead, or just more protection and resilience). I still think Tellarknight can become this with 1 more card, but without a core grind piece its just better to go balls to the wall.
Control decks are hard to play when every deck can wipe the field and then otk.
YGO is in this weird space design wise, there exists no way to curb the infinite upward trend that is a small change that won't send a vocal chunk of players into a frothing at the mouth fit for daring to suggest something like "Universal hard once per turns" and cutting generic cards power.
My favorite deck is Ancient Warriors, not because it's top tier or uses a billion engines, but it's got a neat fairly concise set of synergies and really fun theming. I'd love to run the entire archetype at at least 1, but not stuffing a deck with handtraps means going 2nd because battle focus is a near guaranteed loss.
Good YGO decks are about making your opponent able to do as little as possible at all times rather than swapping resources in a back and forth in 9/10 games it seems.
I feel like something like if you summon a runick you can't summon into the main monster zone for the rest of the turn and fountain negates its effects while a trap is face up on your field would actually allow it to become an enjoyable control deck
Altergeist needs a counter trap omni negate which can negate a card or effect or negate a summon of a monster and ALSO if it is set by a Altergeist monster such as Marionetter it can be activated the turn it was set. Boom, Altergeist is fixed and is now amazing going 1st and 2nd
Or a freaking link 1, when is SS, add a trap card to your hand
I'm not surprised this is happening to Yugioh. Power creep is how most licensed card games sell new sets, Yugioh has survived for so long that we get to see the event horizon of that design philosophy.
yet certain players defend for Konami's methods or business tactics which is sickening. Do they want the game to die?
@@jvsonic2468 Too many people refuse to try or even learn about other TCGs. They end up thinking there is only one way to do things. They also tend to attach their identity to the success of Yugioh, so even suggesting the game has problems is a personal attack to them.
It's like when all the WoW players went to FF14 a few years ago. They were all like "So other people solved this problem differently"?
I like how different decks can be synergistic with each other. I think if the drawbacks were more extreme then you can’t be as flexible in how you can conduct your turn with another engine. If Kashtira fenrir had the drawback of being locked into xyz summoning after using either of the effects than it would force the player to do other actions first before they use fenrir’s boardbreaking effects.
When I saw the new Altergeist cards I was really disappointed as I think that the decks identity is not really to be a combo deck, but to slowly and methodically dismantle your opponent and draining them off advantage. That is also why I hoped to see 2-3 new traps, cards that give the deck more resilience against boardwipes as well as more consistency. Basically I wanted their own in-house Impermanence that can also be a search card to get you to faker, but locks you into Geist for 2 turns to guarantee that it gets used in that deck only. Now the deck has become a pseudo-combo trap deck, making it a worse version of Traptrix or IKEA Labrynth, which will only lead to it being forgotten as it doesn't stand out anymore.
Thats not true, the deck still does what it used to, with additional plays and lines. Does is still struggle going second? Yes judt like 99% of yugioh decks
Videos like this are proof that Joshua Schmidt doesnt simply understand the decks he and his opponents are playing. He truely understands yugioh as a whole.
Amazing video.
That's what happen when you have perfect information 🙄
I gotta disagree. Altergeist having a short combo while staying a grind deck is good. The fact it recycles Multifaker is proof it's a grind deck.
But he is correct about Tellarknight. It's supposed to be a grind deck, yet it's better going balls to wall and dump its whole hand, and I hate that as a long time Tellarknight player.
@@haydenz0 Thats not a small combo in a grind deck. The entire deck is based around setting up a strong comboboard now.
A short combo would be summoning a hextra and a monster it points to. Not "putting like 10 on a board with a bunch of handtraps"
"The fact that you recycle a card makes it a grind deck". By that logic everything is a grind deck. Swordsouls are also recycling cards. That doesnt mean Swordsoul is a control deck now?
Tearlaments recycles cards. Is tear also a controldeck now?
Rikka recycles cards. Is rikka a controldeck now?
No. All these decks are Midrange to combo.
@@Jaddas yes, swordsoul and tearlament are grind decks. Literally when swordsoul came out in the TCG it was called "the new tellarknight" with how basic it was.
I understand it's hard to grasp Tear as a grind deck given it was an ultra high power deck that could combo and grind, but if they lowered the ceiling so it couldn't combo as hard it would be a grind deck. But I guess that's my perspective.
The difference with Rikka is that the card you add back can't start your plays like Multifaker or Gazelle can, but I would say Rikka has more grind than other combo decks.
Notice I am saying grind deck instead of control deck. I might have not said this in my previous reply, but I do think changing altergeist from control to grind is a good thing. Control decks in modern yugioh are just an incredibly frustrating design and rely on going 1st to win by using floodgates or other 20 year old cards. In my opinion, control that is really just stun, shouldn't exist. Normal Marionetter set 2 floodgates pass is not fun or interesting. By converting to midrange, it solves the issue of altergeist not being able to go second by giving it some ways to extend through interruption and have access to tools like Accesscode to contest the opponent's board.
Its pretty much down to this hard reset by banning all the most used generic monsters in the past year or 2. A design principle I think that should be followed is making generic cards semi-generic so that only 1 meta deck can really make good use of it rather than all meta decks be running it. An example could be the "Sunavalon" engine which carries plant strategies on its shoulders these days, or Vernusylph which boosts earth based strategies like Naturia.
It's a nice idea but it does not make any money. If everyone needs the meta staple there will be way way more sales of this card.
That's why cards are generic. They make more money.
@@Lou-Tenant the commenter has a point though, konami needs to limit how generic their cards could be, or the game will suffer, if konami really wants for this game to survive and outlive its creator and maybe even its current CEO, they'll have to step on the breaks at one point.
But, if they really want to make a good generic card every deck could use, then they could just make it a new generic board breaker/s, and/or normal spells & traps, cards that wouldn't be searchable normally.
@@Lou-Tenant that's why we need to show a demand of TCG's accessories that is being put out a lot of. That way Konami will shift their revenue grind onto those & promote them more in commercials & ads.
It's a 3 pronged issue.
1 - There's no set rotation of any kind, so more combos become available and these combos have to constantly be powercrept to keep up, especially legacy support. (kinda 1.5 issues).
2 - It's difficult to design a powerful slow deck in yugioh without floodgates, especially because there's no mana source. Both players play turn 1, so the deck has to be able to play through multiple interrupts going first or second, which pure control can't and likely never will. Only combo can play going 2nd in yugioh now.
3 - People HATED playing against stun decks like Altergeist whenever they are meta. People would rather lose quickly to a combo deck, than slowly to a stun deck.
It's difficult to take into account every little thing that can be of importance to the design of the game. Speed Duels & Rush Duels need to be present for the world to experience (along with other alternative TCG formats) because let's face the facts: TCG is falling off hard. They are so driven with greed, don't ever listen to their playerbase, using banlists to hit cards that would be in the way with whatever new product sets have in store, ntm be very behind in cards needed to be hit, & certain words or phrases in card design are hard to keep a memory of that can help provide balance & be better in intention to what's provided. I think for right now, TCG is considering pushing out accessories with can be the start to really move away from using the main game for their revenue grind. We need to show them a demand for those accessories, so they can focus on improving the accessory design & promote them more in their commercials & ads. That is our purpose as the YuGiOh community for right now.
They say a deck dies 2. Once than it loses relevancy, and a second time than it gets turned into a combo pile.
2028: Me explaining to my kids we had trap cards in Yugioh.
This is exactly why im playing morganite stun decks next format. No engines, just nothing but good stuff
I've been really intrigued by that card. What deck or requirements do you find it needs to work?
@@KevinTangYT you need to have a deck that can slow the pace of the game down while not relying on hand traps. Luna control has been most successful in the ocg, but I've been messing with old format decks with small engines like gadgets, Rock stun or even worm xex/yagan. Those need a little more time in the oven though lol
11:00 Oh yea? And Superheavy Samurai doesn't betray its identity of Synchro Summoning a big monster in defence position to attack for game whit the new cards then???
22:00
Ah yes. Sky striker ,Engage into Engage into Engage was ,,so beautiful " 🤠
3:23 especially since they are still producing cards that need to be destroyed by battle when most decks have board wipes turn 1 or dont even let you play on your turn
@29:00 about beta-testing cards, imagine if they had a game with a lot of players where they could playtest the next set and even reward (with a lot of gems that are free to them, or even cards) the ones that submit problematic interactions. Of course, using player+konami ID in order to prevent spam. It would cost them nothing to have the entire community working for them FOR FREE while we would feel more engaged (i couldn't resist) with card design.
If you think konami isn't testing their cards then you are funny af. Konami tests the cards and they do release it fully realizing their impact because that's how they decided to move forward with the game. Fast paced combo wombo. Relying on the playerbase is stupid af since the majority of it are either casual or semi competitive at most so they have little to no knowledge on how to actually make good card design.
@@alexYu-gi-oh Do you believe the PoTe/MaMa sets were clearly intentional then?
Why did they almost erase those decks?
I do believe they do basic testing, and i also agree the majority of the community is not super competitive.
But it wouldn't hurt at all to beta test, and for them it is at no cost, while it provides both more engagement with the community and can actually find loopholes in cards.
There have been so many times an old card became busted overnight. Or card design not working as intended major example Expulsion (it was supposed to make an easy fusion using Albaz's field effect)
@@babrad The problem is that it completely erases hype. Even in TCG, I don’t feel any hype when new cards come out, because we already know which ones are good from the OCG. It would be like that but much worse.
@@definitelynotmany4972 I was talking about OCG. But as you said, there is no hype since we know every card (except 10 exclusives) for 2-3 months already.
Personally i would prefer a global release for sets, but still keep separate banlists.
New Master rule to fix Trap Decks: Both Players get a turn 0 to set just traps
Better rule:the player going second can activate a trap the turn it's set,any kind of trap
Imagine you go into a full board and you set solemn strike, now you're insulated.
If this rule would be implemented I reckon some traps that were previously overlooked would become broken
Too clunky. Make a hantrap that, say, upon your opponent special summoning from the extra, sets 2 different normal traps from your deck, but without "they can be activated this turn". Problem solved - now you can kickstart your trap deck without wasting a turn. The point is not to "slow things down" (that's just impossible with the way yugioh is structured), but makr everything so fast the speed is no longer a factor, which would unironically lead to longer (albeit very interaction dense) games.
I think there should be such a turn 0, but inly for the player going second, would give a game rules advantage to going second and help lessen the going first vs second imbalance (to the point maybe some of the blowout going second cards can be banned).
Also it should probably be limited to normal traps, otherwise people would set 4 floodgates and a solemn. The deck we wanna power up is control, not stun
@@kindlingking yes,make every deck as strong as tear,now every matchup is as skillful and interactive as tear mirrors
@@raykirushiroyshi2752 no, not as strong (that would be too much of a headache), but rather as capable aka having a strong resource loop, variety for different builds and most importantly ability to disregard turn system and it's imposed limitations (this is especially important for trap decks). In this hypothetical environment going for turn 1 setups or even caring about the amount of negates in general is useless, because the large chunk of actual gameplay happens before those negate bodies hit the field. What would matter is your ability to play grind games aka slowly chipping away at your opponent's resource loop and/or should opponent make enough mistakes seizing an opportunity to push for lethal. Which yeah, would lead to more skill intensive gameplay and probably to many new directions in card/archetype design too.
Konami could very well make a control archetype with busted cards, as long as they put restrictions on them so they aren’t abused outside their intended use. But for some reason, they’re stuck on trying to make every deck generic omni-negate turbo
Three card combo for a deck with no RotAs and playing like a combo deck means running minimal traps so if you don’t open the 2-3 card combo you are not opening the traps to play either. Spoofing is still unsearchable as well so yeah…
Deck can put some absolutely busted boards but _at what cost._
The real issue with power creep is the power level of generic boss monster
Why we have things like borreload savage and baron being completely generic is beyond me
I agree to a point. I think it's because no one would play them otherwise. You could have Savage Dragon maybe be a Dragon Tuner + 1+ Dragons to at least lock it into Dragon decks but Baronne I don't know how. If it needed Fleur Syncron I think no one would play it, maybe other than Syncron decks
@@niallocarroll4450the point is baronne shouldn't exist.
@@nonadqs A boss monster style card can exist if it's effects and materials are balanced in a way that makes it more difficult to summon or only certain decks can make it
@@nonadqs I think that extra deck card don't always need to say negate on them to be interesting. Look at Arise Heart, that has no negate on it but on board is an incredible threat. Same with a card like Mirrorjade and ExNoir
@@niallocarroll4450 yeah I don't either, I literally said baronne shouldn't exist, like savage and appollousa shouldn't.
they have to keep making card to be used once per turn, super heavy is broken because they can activate multiple effects of the same card in the same turn
2 main issues with the way the ban list works nowadays. 1 now more than ever, the list is used to move new product, not "balance" the game. They are showing more and more they care about selling new shit. 2. The lists arent proactive enough. They are reactive and by the time they hit things, people either dont play that anymore OR they hit minor things that don't do enough.
I know that people hate on the idea of Master Duel monthly updates, but would be nice to be have be more frequent.
That said, i am still the guy who thinks that if Konami plays their cards right, (no pun intended) the physical game will cease to exist and will only exist in digital form
your points are the reason why I follow dpYGO more. He said the exact same shit in his streams
@@jvsonic2468 glad to know I'm not alone
super late to this vid but love the talk of runic (with out floodgates) being an actual cool and interactive deck. My hopieum for the decks future is they make it work more with generaider with a card that could make all the bad generaider cards that make your opponet draw a card banish one instead, and an xyz that could swap their field spells around when needed
Regarding Labrynth, my sinking suspicion is that the two monsters in Big Welcome will be sort of like handtraps; Quick Effect monsters which allow you to activate specific (read: in archetype) Normal Traps from hand with a certain cost. If the furniture sets, they activate and bypass needing to wait a turn for trap cards. This will of course require Konami to print Labrynth trap cards which are actually good that aren't Ash-able summons, but it feels like a possible course of action, especially as Konami is experimenting with the next generation of handtrap design.
I think the new combo style gameplay doesnt do anything meaningful for altergeist besides making it lose to every handtrap, however malwisp is a very nice addition to the former version of the deck that just improves the grind game by a lot.
This is why I've been saying for the longest when it came to something like the start of Halq being in around, the end boards were 99.9% the same for a generic standpoint when it able to play it. The higher the generic pool, the harder it is to go about the "unique" aspect because "everything" has to be good and to me that it becomes tiresome. Now some of the decks with new support can end off on the same thing only in different images. Not every deck is like that, but I'll say this... if it isn't ending off on boards with things that say "NO", then this isn't the deck, sadly.
Well, any form of interruption is still interruption, whether its negate, destroy, bounce, or banish, if used right can become a deciding factor in a game.
@@gamedominatorxennongdm7956 yes I do agree with that; however, there are many players that are not up for skill in this card game, especially with complicated it's gotten in modern era. It's difficult to take into account every little thing that can be of importance to the design of the game. Speed Duels & Rush Duels need to be present for the world to experience (along with other alternative TCG formats) because let's face the facts: TCG is falling off hard. They are so driven with greed, don't ever listen to their playerbase, using banlists to hit cards that would be in the way with whatever new product sets have in store, ntm be very behind in cards needed to be hit, & certain words or phrases in card design are hard to keep a memory of that can help provide balance & be better in intention to what's provided. I think for right now, TCG is considering pushing out accessories with can be the start to really move away from using the main game for their revenue grind. We need to show them a demand for those accessories, so they can focus on improving the accessory design & promote them more in their commercials & ads. That is our purpose as the YuGiOh community for right now.
@@jvsonic2468 Yeah, if they really wanted to maximize their profit, they should try to do what Nintendo does to pokemon and sell merchandise.
The problem is generic bosses. Looks at Superheavy Samurai. If Apollousa, Baronne and let's say even Regulus did not exist, woulr anyone play it? The new aupport was designed to buff the Suoerheavy archetype but of course Yu-Gi-Oh players said no, this just makes another combo deck to end on the same 3 bosses every combo decks seems to end on for the last 4 years 🤣🤣
Would love for Konami's bank to run low or deplete to give a fuck about the problems the players been facing for years, but some of those same players will still buy product despite how anti-consumer it really is. Some would even defend on Konami's action, methods, business tactics, whatever you wanna call it. It's really sad man. I hate that this is the state the franchise is in. Players wouldn't give a fuck even if they realize what's really going on like that hasn't registered in their heads to the effect of the game dying slowly but surely. dpYGO said a lot of stuff including how TCG promote product nowadays in his streams. He unfortunately deletes some of them because of how he presents the case would rub players the wrong way which doesn't & the society we are in are so incredibly soft & emotional that they take it to the card games. It's difficult to take into account every little thing that can be of importance to the design of the game. Speed Duels & Rush Duels need to be present for the world to experience (along with other alternative TCG formats) because let's face the facts: TCG is falling off hard. They are so driven with greed, don't ever listen to their playerbase, using banlists to hit cards that would be in the way with whatever new product sets have in store, ntm be very behind in cards needed to be hit, & certain words or phrases in card design are hard to keep a memory of that can help provide balance & be better in intention to what's provided. I think for right now, TCG is considering pushing out accessories with can be the start to really move away from using the main game for their revenue grind. We need to show them a demand for those accessories, so they can focus on improving the accessory design & promote them more in their commercials & ads. That is our purpose as the YuGiOh community for right now.
@@jvsonic2468 The TCG is falling off hard? All the things you said about Konami are certainly valid, they aren't a great company. But statistics what are you using to support this? Considering that Yu-Gi-Oh had some of it's largest YCSs of all time in the last year. Even where I'm from, we just had Nationals and that was the largest one ever. Our locals is the size of a regional sometimes. I know more people that got into/or returned to Yu-Gi-Oh during/after the pandemic than before it. I'm not defending Konami at all, but that is a wild claim to make
@@niallocarroll4450 Have you not analyzed the recent banlists? YuGiOh is dying in the sense that the tournament environment isn't healthy & newcomers won't even dare touch the game for that reason. Konami doesn't give a f*** about bringing in newcomers as they are very narrow in their goals due to greed and power. Y'all over here still buying their products when there should be players quitting for what have ben done. They have scarred the game since of Duelist Alliance, the very core booster set that started this push of the playstyles that are heading to present day modern era. Even affect the casual scene. The TCG banlists are nothing but promoting product & "appeasing" the problems certain players are talking about just so that they would shut up about it. But as you stated, there are the section of players defending Konami & you are too defending through just appeasing the influence of card market no matter if it came from Konami or not, the start of the individual cards or boxes was made by Konami, therefore a vendor or seller of some sort came & bought off their hands. We the players are part to blame for this cause & the state the game is in currently because players would come up with the most degenerate ways to play the game from the way the competitive support was pushed too hard. More players wanted to move to be more casual because of how Konami handled the banlists towards highly tiered decks & the fact that influence of YuGI-Tubers & "pro players" supporting that style of play puts a reminder for those to escape the competitive scene as soon as possible. Don't get me wrong YGO throughout its history was really never in a perfect state or in a state players wouldn't still complain over. If it hadn't been for the anime, the game would've been a wrap for short time. it is sad, but so disappointing what this franchise had to deal with. Someone that is rich, cares, & knows a lot of the problems that I've described would need to buy their IP & franchise off of their hands so the game wouldn't suffer anymore,
@@jvsonic2468 First, I'm not defending Konami or appeasing them at all. And as an active player yes I know exactly what their banlists are for. I know that Konami TCG don't really care and they are definitely NOT above criticism. But you didn't address my point. How can you say a game is dying when this year alone the 250th YCSs had over 3000 players each, the most ever. The fact you wrote essays in response to both my fairly tame comments tells me you feel very strongly about this but at the end of the day, I want to play Yu-Gi-Oh and Konami runs Yu-Gi-Oh. I personally cannot change anything but I agree with you that doesn't mean we as the players can't criticise. I just very much disagree that new Yu-Gi-Oh players aren't getting into the game, as I said, my locals at home is an example of seeing several new players pick up the game and stay playing it
@@niallocarroll4450 those newcomers must've came from some other Yu-Gi-Oh game like Speed Duels, Duel Links, or even Master Duel. The game is supposedly waay too much for any newcomer to come and manage to perform in tournaments. While they may used a structure deck with some cards from booster sets, it's really not enough in the modern era. A lot of going 2nd decks hard to come by with good results & most of the time the opponent gets to play on a turn that is not their own. If you wanted to play Yu-Gi-Oh, you could've gone remote with the cards you already have with a group from locals or that you met in big tournaments. Or you might hate this option, but there are fanmade online simulators as well to you can look into. YGO Omega being the best for both automatic & manual dueling with great quality; but if you prefer exclusively one or the other, there are simulators made with only one of them in mind as well. Making your own Yu-Gi-Oh friend group to get together in is the best way to play imo & can make for some fun times. Why do we have to depend on Konami to play Yu-Gi-Oh when we can just make up our own sessions? A lot of players are already considering that option & even make the tournaments really support competitively with money being the prize for the players that gone to the top. Discord, being one of the main ways of doing so that even YuGi-Tubers, or YGO content creators be using before the existence of Master Duel alters its use a bit carries a lot of support, Sure the only real downside is not being able to experience irl Yu-Gi-Oh as i know people have very busy lives and all, but manual dueling gives enough of that feel & you be in the comforts of your home without spending a whole lot and/or having to pay constantly to be in these big events.
26:02 not that i don't like the idea of pure runick more than any deck in the entire game mechanically.. because i really do wish i could play Runick effectively like that... exactly how would the runick cards be beefed up to have such a restriction placed upon them? that sounds like it could have been an even worse swing and miss, like they could easily have it wind up as another crazy format in an of itself?
anyway- You more or less have my opinion. I live for control and other slow deck designs. i honestly do not to like combo. and yet nowadays thats what it all is. a wave of cards coming at you that if you don't know the precise lines to hit you barely have a shot at stemming the tide, and that assumes you have enough proper resources to do so. I play Paleo a lot and these days i often cross my fingers hoping people don't chain block my paleo summons just with random effects due to how many quick effects are flying about nowadays on top of how little my cards often can do vs what the average deck can do if they slip ahead even a pinch... but after seeing what Konami thought they deserved as a 1 off support card, im starting to fear getting "proper" attention from them when it comes to my slower decks.
The thing is yugioh shifts the paradigm from aggro-midrange-control-combo to combo-stun-"midrange". Aggro can't exist, every deck is aggro and if a deck isn't(can't easily otk a winning game), it's considered a major weakness. Control can't exist because the tools for combo are laughably stronger than any control options, so control decks become stun because it's the only way to simplify plays to the point where control is competitive. Midrange is a joke, it's like playing mtg but half of your opponents hand is force of will or reads "ignore all that shit your opponent did". Lastly combo is almost the real problem child because ever since about Edison where people realized making stardust turn 1 was strong to now where an uninterrupted combo deck puts up half a dozen points of interaction and a lingering floodgate for good measure to make sure that you just don't really play.
bro all i wanted was a way to search spoofing and or a link 1 (which could even be a vanilla just have altergeist in its name) but we got 8 more bricks in the main to lose to 1 handtrap
Not sure if this would slow the speed of the game. But one idea would have a banlist similar to how duel links and speed duels but just directly targeted at the extra deck it might not solve all the issues, but it's a start, I believe. Just an example would be like Baronne and titanic galaxy at 1 so we don't have these "different" decks building the same end board over and over.
Want a solution? Import Rush Duel to the TCG. It's legit the reason the format was created in the first place. There's no OTKs, no "real" floodgates, no +5 negate boards, none of that. Shit is fun and looks cool and refreshing
Exactly what I've been saying. Problem with the TCG currently players will still buy product despite how anti-consumer it really is. Some would even defend on Konami's action, methods, business tactics, whatever you wanna call it. It's really sad man. I hate that this is the state the franchise is in. Players wouldn't give a fuck even if they realize what's really going on like that hasn't registered in their heads to the effect of the game dying slowly but surely. dpYGO said a lot of stuff including how TCG promote product nowadays in his streams. He unfortunately deletes some of them because of how he presents the case would rub players the wrong way which doesn't & the society we are in are so incredibly soft & emotional that they take it to the card games. It's difficult to take into account every little thing that can be of importance to the design of the game. Speed Duels & Rush Duels need to be present for the world to experience (along with other alternative TCG formats) because let's face the facts: TCG is falling off hard. They are so driven with greed, don't ever listen to their playerbase, using banlists to hit cards that would be in the way with whatever new product sets have in store, ntm be very behind in cards needed to be hit, & certain words or phrases in card design are hard to keep a memory of that can help provide balance & be better in intention to what's provided. I think for right now, TCG is considering pushing out accessories with can be the start to really move away from using the main game for their revenue grind. We need to show them a demand for those accessories, so they can focus on improving the accessory design & promote them more in their commercials & ads. That is our purpose as the YuGiOh community for right now.
Lab went through a similar change in a smaller amount of time but I genuinely believe it was a much better change of pace than the slower trap oriented system it was supposed to be, like-wise I think if altergiests had the ability to play like lab most people would choose that version over what it was supposed to be too. Altergiests was a deck that won me top16 in my first regionals back then but I accept that the time for that style of play has passed. Does the new support fundamentally change the deck? Maybe but this was the blueprint for modern trap and there’s an exciting potential for that deck to change even more if they take the lessons they learned from all the other support’s they’ve made before
Rescue-Ace is a midrange deck. It's not great but it's something. Pure Dogmatika is also a pretty strong control deck.
2:30 I was having a longer duel against another casual player (Opponent played some slower deck with skill drain, My deck of choice was a brickier Synchro Stardust Assault Mode casual build with some handtraps and negates from 2009 thrown in) my opponent flipped Skill Drain and basically created a stalemate by interrupting us both so I was drawing for my Mystical Space Typhoon and put down some traps like Imperm and Magic Jammer to not loose to Raigeki etc --- fast forward some turn and I am able to resolve the MST and block his attempts to negate it and stop his follow up by the earlier placed Imperms using it on his monsters and hitting the zones.
This is my whole vibe rn 😂. Every build i have is 25-28 cards, then 12 hand traps and defenses. All my decks are mid range. Best part of the game right now is deck building.
My question is what would you do to make Altergeists good. While in the video Pak shows off combos, I see them as more proof of concept on what the cards can do than the standard lines for the deck now. It's an alternative line of play you can have. Altergeists, in my experience, had the issue of you were reliant on seeing Faker + Trap in some capacity turn 1 to do anything and you can't always guarantee that. Sure, you could open up Traps to help until you see the cards but that's not the Altergeist cards doing the heavy lifting.
The issue with the game is that we want consistency to do our plays and unfortunately the more consistent you get, the faster thing become. From my admittedly limited experience of older formats, games have back and forth due to it taking time to find pieces which in some respects is good but can just be a case of oh I guess I found my win con first
I be seeing in the comments that that Link-4 should be a Link-1 with some adjustments in it's design ofc. However I also be seeing the way the deck plays in the anime, YGO VRAINS, & the new support is what brings that intention in a more consistent direction.
I loved Altergist for being the only trap deck that doesn't play oppressive floodgates for being midrange yet still able to perform combos. I like these cards, but I DON'T like how it feels they just made the deck like 2019 Salamangreat.
Thanks god, after all these years, an actual good player comes up that understands theory crafting, balance and actually likes to sit, use his brain and enjoys playing yugioh. Not only did you adress how degenarate the game has become but what you said at the end is very meaningfull and in my opinion not syndrome but rather a lack of understanding of the game from konami. While players have been listening to what i think are shitty asf opinions from yugitubers, for years, through banlist predictions (ban this, ban that, that's how you balance the game, not understanding powercreep AT ALL) and combo videos (conditionning players and new ones especially to find first turn unga bunga the way the game is played and fun while trashing control decks bs they're annoying now they have to use their brain in order to play). But it seems that konami itself (This really applies to TCG) doesn't understand how powercreep works either. Zenmaity got banned and rabbit limited on march 2013 list, while mermails were growing stronger and rulers and spellbooks came out completely powercreeping wind-ups and dino-rabbit anyways. Electrumite got banned after every single good main deck pendulum and extra deck monster (starving venom) got banned or limited and they weren't even doing anything competitively at that point. Denglong got banned bcs of TK Dino and stayed on the list forcing ppl to play shitty strategies in zefra when it could have been a fun rogue pendulum deck with halqi. All they're doing is shitting on rogue players faces who would like to play their fun deck at locals but still get support from the community bcs their favorite yugituber made a video explaining why a card was broken 10 years ago.
It's difficult to take into account every little thing that can be of importance to the design of the game. Speed Duels & Rush Duels need to be present for the world to experience (along with other alternative TCG formats) because let's face the facts: TCG is falling off hard. They are so driven with greed, don't ever listen to their playerbase, using banlists to hit cards that would be in the way with whatever new product sets have in store, ntm be very behind in cards needed to be hit, & certain words or phrases in card design are hard to keep a memory of that can help provide balance & be better in intention to what's provided. I think for right now, TCG is considering pushing out accessories with can be the start to really move away from using the main game for their revenue grind. We need to show them a demand for those accessories, so they can focus on improving the accessory design & promote them more in their commercials & ads. That is our purpose as the YuGiOh community for right now.
I love the grind game of altergiest. I think all it needed was a link 1 to help with melluseek multifaker line and a decent link 3 that assists with controlling meta decks
It doesnt matter how much ppl talk about what can be done to balance the game unless at least 25% of customers stop buying anything ygo related for like a year, only then Konami will look into the problem wondering why are they losing money
That's been the issue for many years. Players will still buy product despite how anti-consumer it really is. Some would even defend on Konami's action, methods, business tactics, whatever you wanna call it. It's really sad man. I hate that this is the state the franchise is in. Players wouldn't give a fuck even if they realize what's really going on like that hasn't registered in their heads to the effect of the game dying slowly but surely. dpYGO said a lot of stuff including how TCG promote product nowadays in his streams. He unfortunately deletes some of them because of how he presents the case would rub players the wrong way which doesn't & the society we are in are so incredibly soft & emotional that they take it to the card games. It's difficult to take into account every little thing that can be of importance to the design of the game. Speed Duels & Rush Duels need to be present for the world to experience (along with other alternative TCG formats) because let's face the facts: TCG is falling off hard. They are so driven with greed, don't ever listen to their playerbase, using banlists to hit cards that would be in the way with whatever new product sets have in store, ntm be very behind in cards needed to be hit, & certain words or phrases in card design are hard to keep a memory of that can help provide balance & be better in intention to what's provided. I think for right now, TCG is considering pushing out accessories with can be the start to really move away from using the main game for their revenue grind. We need to show them a demand for those accessories, so they can focus on improving the accessory design & promote them more in their commercials & ads. That is our purpose as the YuGiOh community for right now.
im playing mathmech and i cant complete the "destroy 5 cards" daily quest because every game i either make an unbeatable board turn 1 and my opponent quits are my opponent makes an unbeatable board turn 1 and i cant play the game so i quit. i never have duels that go to turn 3
In my opinion, the problem lies in that we're seeing new support cards for an Archetype as """bad""", because why would you play this Link-4 if Accesscode Talker exists? Or why play this end board when you can have Baronne/Appolousa/Zeus instead? The problem lies on all archetypes needing these generic Extra Deck monsters to be relevant, because meta contending decks can utilize these generics. Popular generic ED monsters need to be errata'd to their types or archetypes only.
Weighting and archetype ratio modifiers could probably be used to balance the meta
Tellarknights was never a slow deck inherently imo. I think that's just how ppl chose to play the deck as just a control deck with things like bottomless traphole, Traptrix Traphole nightmare, Solemn warning, Stellarnova Alpha etc and then a bunch of revival traps. I always played it as just a rank 4 toolbox spam deck very offensively oriented. Floating with Triverr and Deltaros and resource management/grind.
Isnt that still a fairly slow midrange deck? Tellarknights cant really spam multiple rank 4s the way infernity could for example, and most good rank 4s at that time were reactive control tools
@@Click3tyClick No it wasnt slow at all. Tellars could put up 2 to 3 rank 4s and they could be reactive or offensive depending on whether you were going first or second. They were best rank 4 tool box competitively in a format where there was a lot of variety the best decks were Tellars, BA, Shaddoll, Nekroz and Ritual beast. Tellars also didn't have to go through all the hoops and hurdles that infernity had too and was consistent with 3 Rota and generically good warrior extenders or starters like Blue Mountain Butterspy, Heroic Challenger Assault Halberd, and Phonton Slasher.
I think Konami ought to stop this stupid arms race between board breakers and boss monsters; cards like Evenly, Lightning Storm, and Nibiru are honestly absurd, but no less absurd than cards like Apollousa, Savage, and Baronne. You are never going to make this game slow again; there's just too many enablers, particularly in the Extra Deck, but you can make endboards way less threatening.
Why in the world would you say that pure runick being a deck out sort of deck is "fun" ? All that is doing is not allowing your opponent to play in the slowest burn possible
I think one solution is to just powercreep control decks. Design new control archtypes that are just as or even stronger than the combo decks, and the meta would naturally get a bit slower in turn
This was Tearlament
@@cashcloakburmy agreed, although it certainly has combo elements, and is definitely not a slow deck.
And a lot of people (myself included) really like tearlaments design, how they don't usually focus on negates, how a big strength of the deck is the grind game, how they have an in archtype hand trap that makes going second a lot better. If konami designed another such deck but tier 1 rather than 0 (or just in a few years where tearlaments is the standard power level), it could result in a wonderful control meta
How about an altergeist link 1 that sets up to 4 traps from the deck that is unnaffected by the effects of trap cards and monsters whose level on the field or graveyard is less than or equal to 4. Your opponent cannot target, destroy, or banish, your face up trap cards and your set cards in the spell and trap card zone.
The arrow points down diagnoally. Requirement 1 Altergeist monster.
Time to just lock arc extra deck monsters to need at least one the actual monsters.
Inb4 the next salad support just makes it into another hyperconsistent wombo combo deck
I mean there’s stuff like purely or however it’s spelt. But those just get splashed into bigger engines. I feel like mid range is just harder to balance now with stuff like spright which can just combo through anything
Even as a combo player, I agree. My favourite archetype is synchron, and the new support doesn't make it meta or anything, just playable, but the more I look for combo lines and deckbuild ideas, the more I see the same exact endboards of generic synchro/goodstuff, not the cards that you supposedly should go into. I feel like the excessively generic nature of too many blowout cards are to blame for this, like the example you gave with altergeist. The decks are losing identity super fast, and more and more are just becoming goodstuff piles. Even dlink should have started as the deck for the borrel monsters and has become link goodstuff. Cyberse is just abother of the more recent examples.
I do agree with most of the topic.
I don't really like the idea of a rotation, but I do agree with the concept of a huge banlist, banning/limiting also decks that would be strong again if everything else is banned.
Just an example, don't take that personal as I'm also playing the deck so I'd hate that as well, a card that in my personal opinion is busted and if everything else is getting touched might be quick launch, I mean it's not once per turn and can bring out tracer which is a one card combo tho.
Cards like that should be at one, as rota is.
Just for the mere example remember plz 😅
Till this day salad format and swordsoul/branded format are my favs cuz of how fair those decks are ino
halq was legal during that format or it was alteady vanned ?
I honestly don't think there is a deck that is not a combo deck.
I played for years only control decks, but now im on branded. No control deck player loves to use floodgates, its boring. But the problem is traps didn't the same improvement like monsters or spells. The solution is easy, we need first of all better traps, we need gy eff of traps and the deck should be able to recover from gy, like eldlich. This pared with a theme to tribute monsters from oppenent (like kaijus but on your site and effects to mill traps from deck) would allow us to play in a fast meta control decks. People would get punished for glass canon decks and we would defintily see way more midrange decks.
I think Konami did missed the spot to limit the number of special summons you can preform multiple years ago. They should have done this as soon they saw spacial summoning get out of hand instead of printing card like Nibiru.
Yugioh nowadays is all about making your opponent not play, but if you didn’t want them to play why challenge them to a duel in the first place!? Lol this is why I will always love older formats
I think the more close playstyle slow gases right now is runick and maybe exorsister and naturia runick
Thats an anime original deck for you, they want you to spam the board like they did in the anime.
one of my favorite examples for this problem is gladiator beast. it went from one of the coolest midrange resource game archetypes into a brainless, go second cast dark ruler, attack with dragses and make a stupid billion negate board, how fucking boring
So I when I came back I liked playing combo, but went to control and am now craving mid range decks because I feel they are more fun. Ninja is currently my favorite mid range to play. I feel like some of the new decks releasing have been mid range focused like vanquish soul, it almost feels like konami is drip feeding mid range to the masses to see if it is liked or not