Valve Shootout: 6L6 vs EL34
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- Опубліковано 27 бер 2013
- 6L6 and EL34, both popular power valves for guitar amps, but what is the sonic difference between the two?
Here I take a Bugera 333 loaded with 6L6s and swap them over for some Tung-Sol EL34s.
The Infinum circuit within the amp accomidates for the different style of valve.
Unfortunately I couldn't turn the amp to the volume I'd have liked to really bring out the valve tone, but hopefully this still gives a good representation of how they sound.
With more run in time the EL34s will probably sound better still.
The sound samples were recorded using CSG custom CS1 guitar with Bareknuckle Pickups, through the Crunch and Clean channels of a Bugera 333 infinium
(with MXR smartgate and Carboncopy in the effects loop),
driving a Celestion Hot 100 speaker, picked up by a Sure SM57.
For all your valves check out www.watfordvalves.com. Quality assured with more diagnostic testing than just about any other valve distributer.
Join the discussion at: csguitars - Навчання та стиль
This guy speaks with a EL 34 accent !
Pear-fektly Sco'-ish
Lol he’s Scottish. He’s got an El 84 accent its slightly different.
I'm with you on that Zonnekat. Found this dude a year ago when I was buying a used Bugera 333. But I stop by every now and again because he is hilarious and just has a way that is interesting.
@@charlesbaranyi5006 There is definitely a difference. No question.
Does that mean he's pre biased? : )
6L6 1:33
EL34 7:08
Physister i
The 6L6's definitely win for me!
I feel that was a little uncalled for. LWB was providing what I considered to be some interesting information. He'll be getting some really good sound quality from that thing.
I've had a look at your recent comment history, it seems to be all like this.
Being horrible just for the hell of it. Disappointing Garry, disappointing.
I've not had a troll on my comments for a while. Have they built a new bridge close by for you to live under perhaps?
Nice test !
6L6 is a beam power tetrode (so less odd harmonics and less distortion)
EL34 is a real pentode (so odd harmonics and distortion)
6CA7 is a beam power tetrode version of the EL34 (I never heard one !)
for playing heavy metal like you do, EL34 is probably better sounding
for playing blues jazz like I do, 6L6 (and 6V6) is what I like (lot of even harmonics and little distortion)
Cleaning valves bottle is a good idea : when the valve goes hot (about 250° celsius) your fingerprint will cook and crack the glass
Good vid. Informative. I play the Bugera 333xl with EL34's but always wondered about the 6L6's. You gave me my answer.
i was just wondering what the difference was between these valves. thanks for making this 11 years ago. 🤘
The 6L6's provide a flatter frequency response than the EL34's, that's why the slight bump in EL34 bass response can be appreciated. The 6V6's exhibit even more linearity than the 6L6's, but in the end, it is a matter of personal preference. Good job! This an important comparison to make. Sam (USA)
Great video , its always fun watching your videos :)
Excellent man , I love everything you teach us colon , love you man
Gotta be the EL34s for me. I recently switched the stock 6L6s out of my Bugera 6262 Infinium for Sovtek EL34s (which I managed to get for £20), and the difference in tone is incredibly apparent. I was only expecting a minimal difference, but the EL34s seem to have a much smoother high end and a slightly tighter bass response. Great vid mate. :-)
Nice one mate! Always really useful..
Hey that is a great comparison between two great types of tubes. You really illustrated the sonic differences well. Almost everything I've built so far has been around the 6V6/6L6/7591 family; I agree with you on the "tighter" feel to them. I'm thinking I need to give the EL34s a try.
Wow, what a difference! The EL34's have much more gain, a heavier type sound. If you can live with the extra hiss when you're not playing or playing clean is the trade off. Great test thanks for that.
The pickups in the guitar I'm using here are by Bareknuckle: a Painkiller in the bridge, and a Sinner (with zinc/steel baseplate) in the neck.
Aw man, love the JMD shirt! still my favourite amp I have!
Haha, I do those silly mouth twitches when I play too.
The new Laney IronHeart series has 6L6 with the ability to switch to EL34.
Tony Iommi uses 6L6, he's British, he invented metal so both valves have their heritage in British metal
6L6's all the way baby!!!! Good demo, thank you... Will try the 34's for myself as well... I feel my 6L6's are very ice picky high... I definitely get as much bass and punchiness as I would ever need... but sometimes those highs really stab me in the ears.
This is the exact video I was looking for. Have the amp and wondered about swapping. I'm thinking of doing two JJ EL34L's and two 6L6's yet to be decided.
Sounds are very hard to quantify with words, and we all hear slightly different things.
It also sounds different in the room than it does recorded down, and then the compression that youtube puts on everything changes it again.
EL34 had some earlier break up than the 6L6s, and I could hear them growl a bit more.
but the comparison was to let everyone hear the difference and decide for themselves. Music wouldn't be anywhere near as interesting if we all agreed on everything :)
Great video Colin. Very useful to hear the comparisons.
ONe Question: In your opinion, is there a perceivable difference in sound between different brands of the same type of tubes (for example a set of EL34's made by JJ, vs set of EL34's made by Mullard)?
Nice playin, man....sounds nasty!
I'm just blown away by your agility with the pots in the guitar, wow! I preferred the el34s as they were slightly more top-endy, imo.
EL34's are my favorites.
Good vid, Colin, & thx for recording it right, it's annoying as hell to get a vid in which the damned strumming hand is audibly slapping strings.👍
I think the point of using the infinium was so he could switch and let it do the work of compensating and biasing. INFINIUM Tube Life Multiplier Technology
revolutionary INFINIUM Tube Life Multiplier technology is like having your very own technician inside your amp constantly monitoring and tweaking tube performance for the ultimate in tonal integrity and reliability. This revolutionary circuit not only optimizes the performance of each output tube, it dynamically balances the drive between them to more evenly distribute the load. With INFINIUM, your tubes last up to 20 times longer, saving you substantial money over the lifespan of your amplifier. INFINIUM also compensates for the effects of aging, automatically adjusting current levels to keep your tubes sounding as good as the day they were installed.
Is it an ad?
I liked the EL34s better.
They have a deeper sound. More body.
It sounded bigger.
@@therapscallion23 facepalm
Amp tech/builder since '86 here. The differences between 6L6s and EL34s are going to be hard to hear at levels below power amp clipping because of the negative feedback used in most amps with those two tube types. Usually, you can match most of the difference with your tone controls.
For this reason, I recommend 6L6s because they are quite a bit more reliable and long lasting for modern master volume amps. Of course, my old Marshalls only get EL34s!
Good video, thanks for posting.
I'm looking for a used Bugera Infinium, this video sealed the deal for me. I'm usually a Fender guy.
One thing that might make a difference is the quality of the original tubes in the amp. Evidently one had already failed, the other 3 could be on their last legs. The replacements of Tung Sol El34b is a fairly high quality tube. Perhaps a better comparison would be of a new set of quality 6L6s against the EL34s? Also you could probably put a pair of each in and get a mix of both worlds.
i liked the the EL34's so i bought the jj's,they sound great to me,imo.
Thanks for the video!
Those Tung-Sol EL34s are probably the brightest true pentodes out there, with a clipping characteristic that is actually pretty 6L6GC-esque, so no surprise you find them brighter than expected. EL34s usually are stronger until point of breakup where they compress like crazy. 6L6GCs not that much so, though the taller the bottles the stronger the valves with these, generally.
Power valves really show their tonal differences when pushed hard. This type of amp mainly relies on preamp distortion, you won't hear any change in texture there. It's the saturation of the power stage that would really differ.
About to do some SERIOUS reamping for a solo album, using a Mesa/Boogie Mark V, & going to be testing ALL of the options (pentode vs. diode vs. tube, 6L6 vs El34, 90/45/10 watt settings, etc.) & I wanted to brush up on the tube differences. I thought "I wonder if my new favorite channel has a video on this"...sure enough, you do! New subscriber, & love the content + personality. Great for the adept professionals & novices alike. Keep it goin' strong, my friend \m/
I noticed I like the cleans from the 6L6's better but the distorted tones from EL34's. Not a bad demo at all!!
a good topic for the video. when I was buying my first valve amp several years ago,I was stuck in analysis paralysis but was pretty certain I wanted an el34 base. I finally decided to go to long and mcquades and play several, one after the other and buy the one I liked best. I ended up with a yorkville ycv40wr (6l6 base) and have never looked back. this was after comparing against fenders, orange, Marshalls and mesa s. a few years ago, I did pick up a blackstar ht5r for practice as the ycv40 was a little overwhelming for the size of our practice space. my advice, pick your amp with your ears not it's specs. btw while there is a volume range that most amps sound good in, I don't buy into the idea that it has to dimed.
Thanks, really enjoyed that, especially the accent!
I have a 333XL with EL34s I want to switch them to 6L6s so it’s awesome you have almost the same amp for me to hear the differences.
The heavy sound on the EL34s, to me, felt like they had much less distortion, but had a lot more 'bite' as it were. Overall, the 6L6 tubes seemed to distort more and at lower volumes, whereas the EL34s keep their definition, and have a more full tonality.
Both are very pretty.
very cool..thanks for sharing
In a Dual Rec the 6l6 tubes sound a lot better than the El34s, but, in this amp the reverse is true - but in this case the sound is a lot closer.
The guitar shines through the 6L6s better than it does through EL34s. There’s a certain ‘gritch’ in an EL34 that seems to replace the actual ‘note’.
My opinion: for a comparison like this, if you use a standard tuning (or at least higher than Drop Bb) on the guitar and a less bassy eq on the amp, we absolutely can understand the difference between the valves better than we do with your setup. With DropBb guitar and bassy eq the valves sound pretty similar, but they absolutely aren't...
I thought your video was an excellent depiction of the different tonal sound from the tubes. Varying from power chords to picking and bassy notes from the B string. Good job. I listened through good headphones on my galaxy s and noticed a lot of variances between the two. I thought I was going to prefer the el34's but I felt they sounded a bit muddy on the bottom end.
Your vids are great and very helpful...thanks so much.
I Liked the EL34's better.
Question: Why can't I get that squeal notes? Is that a "pinch harmonic" ?
I know the concept of getting a pinch harmonic and am practicing BUT...are those "squeal" notes a function of high gain pickups, the amp, the pedal, the guitar, string type.... or just technique...how can i get more of those?
Running through a 2011 Bugera v22 (3 x 12AX7 pre and 2 EL84 output tubes - have never been changed, should I do that?)
1960's Tiesco guitar with low powered cheapo pickups.
always a great video from you. straight answers and points on all of them. you just solved my tube issue with one phrase. "the 34s have a punchier bass" that is it. sold
The 6L6s seem a bit more vocal to me. The EL34s a bit thicker.
Thank u man nice video :)
Thank you man it will sure to put some el34's in my amp (I LIKE LOUD!!!!)
Would the 6L6s be better used for an acoustic amp, especially with a 12 string acoustic guitar?
The first riff you played sounded better with 6L6s, but EL34s sounded great overall (to my ears). Great video!
great video !!! thnx
Collin, have you tried both sets of tubes in a live band setting? If so could you give your thoughts as to any difference you noticed in how your amp cuts through the mix? Thanks!
can one create a chunkier drive with a boost/buffer in the FX loop?
Tubes can be removed without the risk of breaking by using a circular motion and easing them out. Don't worry about the sockets because they're meant to handle the circular motion.
Not sure why people are saying there's not much difference here. Too me it's the difference between Van Halen and Electric Wizard (okay so it's not an EW tone but you get my point). Sometimes I"m a 6v6/6l6 fan but in this case, EL34 sounds like it has a lot more depth and texture...and just plain sounds more badass!
=)
0:35 "Either an EL34 or a Sex El Sex"
HAHAHA I had the exact same thought! No disrespect Colin!
***** What does that sound like? I can't imagine how it would be that different from how any other english speaking person says it. Does it stick to the roof of your mouth for while before finally emerging through clenched teeth?
***** Oh god......it's bad enough you guys say "Zed" for the letter Z!
You say Zee for the letter Z.
Moses Bullrush Yes, we do.
My Valveking Mkll is my only amp that can take both of these valves. The EL 34s improved the amp characteristics drastically over the factory 6L6. I have some KT77s i want to try next.
Rather unique, those Tung Sol EL34s, in that they were designed to sound closer to a 6L6GC than your average EL34. That gives them a bit more open top end than usual. Then of course there are 6L6GCs that are quite dark or mid centred too.
how did you get your on/off and stand by leds red :D mine are blue
Man I just picked up a crate tv6210 it has 6l6's the reverb feeds back and im changin the pt to el34. My question is what specific groovetube preamp tubes would be good for the hard rock metal?
I bought that head some time last week...i played out with it last night...Keep in mind this is my first tube amp... I had the channel volume down for playing at my house and instead of being smart and turning them up and the master down i just turned up the master...I kept getting really bad feedback...Lol i guess you have to learn some things the hard way. Also i think im gonna keep the valves it came with. Nice vid man.
Just got into tube amps from moving from solid state. I had no idea that the different valves gave different sounds and from this video I don't think it matters. Both sound great.
You won't be able to hear much of a difference on a compressed UA-cam video but they can change the sound of an amp dramatically.
Learning quite a bit from your videos but one thing I can teach you is to roll the tubes in a tight circular motion instead of back and forth to extract and insert them. It keeps the connections from wearing out, kind of like a plug on an outlet will loosen up.
i wouldnt say that a higher noise floor equates to more gain.
Just got a matched quad of J/J E34L tubes to replace the 6L6s in my Mesa Dual Rectifier multiwatt. I enjoy it more now.
shouldnt the amps be turned up so the power tubes actually change the sound? were pretty much hearing the preamp tubes only on both recordings.
Yes, that is the thing they all know nothing about. The preamp is the one shaping 80% of the tone. Power amp only has 20% to do with the tone. Therefore the only way to hear the other 20% of the power amp tone is to crank the fucking thing. But like always, the little bird brains on youtube have no clue as to why it is what it really is. All they know is what they read on threads. When really the preamp is 80% of the tone, If preamp sucks the whole fucking amp sucks. You will never hear the other 20% until you crank the poweramp.
Hi Collin , have you tried a combination of both types of valves in various amounts in order to get a more taylored response. Good luck, have fun John.
Try out some KT's as well. I think you'll dig a KT88. Thanks for the great video.
So is the only difference between the Blackstar Series One 6L6 and the EL34 the valves? And if yes: can you simply replace them as you did with your amp?
Thanks for the video
I had one of these amps a while back that I had ship to me through my local guitar store. It was amazing for about 15 minutes then it just stopped working. I would love to use one for my shows but if I can't count on it what's the point. In any case for an amp like this I would go with 6L6s or 5881s, the metal lead tones get a great vowel sound when they get heated up.
This channel went looong way ;)
I have a Marshall 100w 1959 with four El34. I really want that AC/DC lead sound. Thinking about changing the power valves but there are so few real good guitar stores in my town.
I need EL34s for sure
The issue with these Bugeras is that they actually don’t self bias properly. To make them work with both types of valve the plate voltage is really low and both tube types run really cold. I modified a friend’s 333 heads to run at properly with each valve. He did lose the ability to interchange the valves but the amps sounded entirely different from the stock heads.
Good video. Mix-matched 6L6 brands? My amp won't allow that. I require matched pairs.
Comparison contrast depends on a lot of other factors as well. My application is Cary V-12 and trying new (Soviet made) Mullard EL34. Will re-bias when they arrive.....
The EL34 had a colder and raspier break up than the 6L6. The 6L6 made this amp sound very Mesa-like
Hi there the 12bh7 power tube from my blackstar ht 5 can be change to el 34s?advice pls,,thanks
Do i need to rebias of i change the power tubes?
Are 6L6s and EL34s interchangeable on all amps?Or is your amp designed for switching between the two?
HEEEEEEEEEEEELP!!! xD
First of all, I got a bugera 333 (the combo version) and it came with 4 6L6 valves and I have a couple questions...
Does changing vavles change the sound at all?? I mean, treble, bass and mids??
What are the best brands?? I mean, are Groove valves nice??
Can I fit ENGL vavles in to my Bugera?? :p Will it sound better? :p
Thanks :)
The purpose of changing valves/tubes is so that you can get a different sound (unless you are replacing as opposed to changing, which is getting the same type of tube to fix a worn-out one). My personal favorite are Ruby tubes, they aren't super expensive, and I have never had a problem with them. That being said, if you are willing to spend some more money, Mesa Boogie Tubes are fantastic. Groove tubes are pretty good, but there really aren't any brands of tubes that are absolute crap, so as long as you get tubes from a good manufacturer, you should be good. Also, tubes are Universal, you have pre-amp tubes, rectifier tubes, large power tubes, and small power tubes (small being the 6v6, el84, etc.). You have large power tubes in yours, so avoid el84s and 6v6s and you should be good. Hope this helps!
I love my 2002 dual rec with 6L6s.
Mine is an older model, was in a pawn shop, no details, no footswitch, no guarantee. couldn't even test it.
As such I anticipated some issues.
Pleasantly surprised to find there was none. Had to replace a valve a few weeks in, but that's standard with second hand valve amps.
Have been using it at shows and at home since I got it, never had an issue with reliability yet. No downside in performance or build quality. A very good amp for the price. Louder than you'll ever need too.
so can you normally change the types of tubes/valves in amps? i have a traynor amp with el34s but i tend to like 6L6s and i wanted to know if i could switch them out
Would tossing in a gate or two (say in front) and somewhere in the fx loop change the hiss of the EL34s? Other part of me also thinks, just clean that up in a DAW with a gate or eq/master settings somewhere. ?
Defintaely prefer the EL34s although I can't really say why...
Did you crank it up to 10 on the master volume?
I dodn't Think that you will here much difference when the gain is coming from your preamp tubes.
what kinda tubes are usually used in Chilean amps?
Hey Colin. For me, the 6L6s sounded brighter and cleaner, the EL34s warmer and dirtier. Subtle, though... Thanks for the vid!
EL34 (TunSol) matched quad work well in my hi fi amp after 30 hours they sounded great. Lost there jumpiness and hi's. Smooth as now.
your are exactly right in your observation..
EL34 has much more internal gain than a 6L6GC.. The 6L6GC is a more "efficient" tube as it spends less energy at the screen (max 5W vs 8W for a EL34) and more on the plate (30W vs 25W for the EL34). The EL34 has a much higher transconductance and needs less bias voltage to drive it at a plate voltage of 450V.
The biggest difference is the beam forming element in the 6l6GC tube that focuses the emited electrons to a more narrow area. Also look at the shape of the loadlines of a EL34 vs a 6l6GC, the 6L6GC has a kink early on the loadline..
EL34 are not normally taught as having a good clean sound but that is probably because most guitar amp run the screen voltage rather high like 465V in a marshall and why we need to add huge 5W 1K to 1.5K screen resistors om each tube.
If you designed an amp with 375V on the plates and screens it would probably sound sweeter with the standard marshall 3.4K OT load and have an output of ~40W if you had a stout power supply. ..
We are really pushing the plate limit with the stock marshall 3.4K OT for a pair at 465V. The marshall gets away with it. as the power transformer voltage will sag a little under heavy current draw.
I think if you wanted a better clean sound from a pair of EL34 you would have two power rails, so the plate and screen are feed from their own line. That way you could keep the screen voltage constant (335V) at a lower voltage than the plate voltage you would have much higher (700V) and an OT with a much higher impedance to match the high plate voltage... (MusicMan HD130 amp)
So what is an EL84 tube? My JCM 2000 Marshall dsl 100 MLB amp head uses EL34's and EL84's;and can ya explain what they are and which is the better of the two? Thanks.
Would I be able to swap any of these tubes with a KT88?
I found a Mitchell PRO 100 AMP in my attic today. Looks like a two speaker out AMP with two guitar inputs (or one guitar one microphone)? Been there since the mid to late 1990's when I tried to learn the guitar (another boring story). It is missing one 6L6 Tube, but the other three Tubes look to be in perfect condition to me. Does this old amp or these tubes have any value to them? Tubes say "6L6 GC USA" on the side of them if that means anything. And the AMP says its manufactured in California. I loved the sound of your AMP by the way. Nice video, thanks...
It's like hearing "Sex EL Sexys" with the accent. lol i love it. I like watching your videos man. Keep it up. Those EL34's were definitely more gain and louder sounding. Guess it depends on the style you play the most for what tubes to go with.
what about a setup with two el34 and two 6l6?
Huh, to me the el34 sounded more precise! And also, my dark tiny terror sounds pretty gritty and brittish, how much would that change if i change to el34?
I dont know much about tubes, but is it possible to have 2 6l6 and 2 El34?
Does it use a solid state phase inverter? Just wondering. Doesn't really matter to me, my Blackstar uses a SS phase inverter and sounds killer.
i found the el34's just like mine to be a little muddy imo
i think i will go for 6l6's
well always was usually on the 6l6 trip....and still happy with those...some of them sound like Fairyland Ragnarok I do not know lol