Why Vocal Booths Make Vocals Sound Bad
Вставка
- Опубліковано 15 чер 2024
- FREE Soundproofing Workshop: www.soundproofyourstudio.com/...
You read that right, vocal booth, the hallmark of any legitimate studio actually are bad for vocals. How you ask? In this article I will dive deep into the science, cite multiple reputable books and teach you what a vocal booth is really for.
1) What Are Vocal Booths Used For?
To record vocals, right? No, they are used to separate the singer from the band when live tracking. Our modern notion of sticking singers in a dead small claustrophobic room with a terrible foldback system (headphone system) is not how final vocals are supposed to be recorded. Don't believe me?
Richard Hilton who has recorded Diana Ross, Michael Bolton, SImon Le Bon, Tina Arena and many others will record the final vocals in the control room. Everyone wears headphones and can easily communicate and the room itself is way better sounding than a booth (more on that to come)(“RealTraps - Vocal Booths”). Moreover, some producers will even play the music softly over the speakers and forgo headphones all together to get a great vocal recording.
Another thing to realize is that professional "vocal booths" actually are usually live rooms or fairly large neutral rooms. When you see an artist through the glass in a mulit-million dollar studio they are usually in a fairly large space, and if not it is to the deficit of the acoustics. Let's talk more about that.
2) Small Rooms Do Not Sound Good
Physics cannot be changed. Small rooms, no matter how much acoustic treatment you put in them will always sound worse than a large room. Why? The first reason is that small rooms cannot support the massive wave lengths of low frequencies. This leads to the bass frequencies getting trapped (especially when the room is soundproof). This leads to a boomy boxing sounding room. You can add as much fiberglass panelling as you like, but those will not fix the low end. Bass traps, sure they can help a little, but they are not very effective below 100 Hz.
Here is what the Master Handbook of Acoustics says about small vocal booths: "provide very little low frequency absorption. Thus important voice frequencies may be overly absorbed, whereas low frequency room modes are untreated" (Everest and Pohlmann, 480). The smaller rooms make it impossible to absorb low frequencies because you don't have the space for true low frequency absorption, plus room modes occur higher up in the frequency spectrum which means the bottom end of voices will ring out more than the higher end of the voice leading to a boomier and boxier vocal tone. You can spend $10,000 on your vocal chain, but if you record it in a bad sounding room then the vocal will always sound cheap.
Just to drive this point home, here is an excerpt from Recording Studio Design by Philip Newell:
"Simple attempts at absorption by placing of acoustically absorbent tiles on the walls and ceiling will not suffice. These will tend to absorb the higher frequencies but leave the lower-mid and low frequency modes largely untouched, yielding a room with a heavily coloured ambience which will lack life and add a thickness to the sound, robbing it of much clarity" (Philip Richard Newell, 153).
Conclusion
This is the argument against vocal booths and really small rooms in general. This is not to say you should never use a vocal booth. If you are tracking live bands then vocal booth are a useful for isolating the vocalist from the band. However, for most situations vocals should be tracked in a larger room. This could be the control room or a live room in a large studio.
Works Cited
Everest, Frederick A., and Ken C. Pohlmann. “Acoustics of Audio/Video Rooms.” Master Handbook of Acoustics, McGraw-Hill, New York, 2015.
Philip Richard Newell. Recording Studio Design. New York ; London, Routledge, Taylor & Francis Group, 2017.
“RealTraps - Vocal Booths.” Realtraps.com, realtraps.com/art_booth.htm. Accessed 2 Jan. 2024.
FREE Soundproofing Workshop: www.soundproofyourstudio.com/acoustic
I think you got the reason backwards. Nobody was worried about vocal bleed into the drum recordings and it was about having everything bleed in the vocal mic. The amount of processing done to vocals requires a clean recording.
It does! It small rooms are not ideal for vocals.
@@soundproofyourstudiothank you for saying the word ideal. Because vocals booths may not be the most immaculate way to accomplish high quality recordings. But it doesn’t make vocals sound “bad” and there’s probably 5 hundreds different scenarios and set up that you have to consider. And sometimes it’s the only thing some people can resort to depending on their situation. I get that the science of it is interesting but I don’t find it useful to make videos that likely stop people from experimenting. Even if you have to use blankets around your room, and call it a booth… it doesn’t make your vocals worse than if you were in a certain room.
I've been building my studio for just over a year now, and the number of times people have asked "No vocal booth?" is astounding. No, I'm going to record vocals in either the live or control room. But explaining why does take a little time, so often I just leave it at that. Thanks for a clear and concise explanation. Now I can just hit the share button to explain!
Awesome! Yeah there are so many myths in our world. I too get exhausted trying to explain them over and over again.
Hah! Same!
The easiest solution I've found for my home studio is a blanket draped over a T stand behind the vocalist and a little absorption in front of the vocalist. I think the absorption knocks down some of the early reflections, the blanket knocks down some reflections coming off the back wall, and the room sounds pretty open overall. I get pretty good takes with this setup and it takes about a minute to put together when I need it!
Thanks for sharing
I think it's important to take into account environmental sounds that you have in non-ideal recording environments, as well as the desire to control your own volume in shared spaces. The whole point of an isolation booth is isolation. As a performer I'm way more comfortable screaming and belting in a box knowing I'm not getting snickering from the next room over. Also not having AC or dog barks in the recordings is really helpful. The bass buildup is why it's helpful to have a low frequency rolloff. I've never had a vocal performance diminished by rolling of frequencies under 120, especially within the context of a mix.
Have I recorded in an open environment to hear the difference? Yes, it's a much more open sound with natural reverb, but it's also harder to edit and less versatile than a clean recording that just needs a little bass rolloff.
Yes isolation is the point of a booth. It’s a sacrifice that is sometimes needed
It seems like you didn't really speak to the point. You gave a lot of reasons unrelated to how vocals sound in general. The voice sounds a LOT better and more natural when the sound is not dead. Yes, many times it is easier to modify vocals or sounds that have no color to them, but it's not real or natural at all. In dear space, you are literally taking away components of a person's voice that are actually necessary to make a human voice what it is. So, the video's point cannot be denied. People act like this isn't an issue, but deny the fact that the only way a recording can come out sounding good in these settings is if the engineer literally changes the recorders voice artificially.
@@GENREBENDER- You add the room later, by reverb, or room emulation plugins, or even by placing a speaker in a well sounding room and then record that edited take (that way you get a "perfect" take, and can quickly record it, with natural sounding room acoustics, that way you might be able to rent a truly good space, or time your recording when there is the least issues with environmental sound). With natural reverberation recorded, you face issues when editing, but also when you want to get it sound like a different room as you then would have too diffferent reverberations, the one recorded and the one you want to add. In an actual studio, with a large, well treated recording room/control room with good sound, with a truly great singer, this might not be an issue. But in a home-studio, you probably aren't completely isolated from outside sounds, or from fan noise, or typical A/C. For the singer to give a good performance, you eq, and add a bit of reverb to their monitoring. But yes, the downsides is that a vocal booth, is a closed space, so it will be hard to do longer sessions without breaks.
@@TheJonHolstein thank you for saving me the effort with this reply. This is absolutely correct. When recording vocals as isolated as possible and devoid of room acoustics you now have artistic freedom and are not stuck with the room sound and acoustics that were "printed" to the original recording.
A good comparison in another field would be capturing footage in RAW. Sure, the picture is ugly, but that's because it's unprocessed, sure you could choose ahead of time to record with a specific LUT, but you have less creative options down the road if you want to change the look.
Also it's important to make sure that your booth isn't changing the sound in harmful ways. The video author touched on this with bass buildup in small rooms. Another issue is resonant frequencies and room modes. If you don't properly treat a vocal booth it can have terrible resonance issues that a larger room does not have.
To be clear my comment wasn't "OPs video is bad", just pointing out that it's not as cut and dry as "vocal booths ruin the sound", because in many instances that is incorrect or even 180° wrong.
Well, actually if you find yourself in a situation of mixing vocals with too much room reverb for your taste, taming your artistic freedom, there are various de-reverb plugins, and free AI model in download center of UVR5 app. But RX8-10 or Acon Digital, or Waves for that is better.
Still, it's much easier to work on already good sounding vocals, and that's why we here.
Peter Gabriel not only recorded his vocals in a large room, he didn't even use headphones. He recorded facing a "boom-box". If it's good enough for him, it's good enough for me...
Another great example from the pros
that gets more into the Psychology of recording than the technology.
And he quite often didn't use condensor mics, opting for SM57s
@@theandroidmeme You definitely couldnt use a Cond. mic tracking in front of blaring speakers. Theres a few singers like Gabriel & Bono that don't like tracking with headphones. Bono sits in the cntrl room with a 58 & tracks to plybk from the field monitors. The idea of doing that activates by OCD & prompts anxiety. I guess it creates it own 'thing.' Even using a Card. mic you'd have bleed. Its be undoable with a Cond.
Can't remember who was it, maybe Jackson. They also used some near fields instead of headphones during singing, and irc, one speaker had reversed polarity during recording.
Booths are useful when recording in a room that isn’t treated.
I would argue you should use gobos instead.
A place that doesn’t have treatment in the room ain’t gonna have those. I’ve been to plenty of home studios where the room was so bad the only solution was to go to Home Depot and make your own iso Booth.
Nice video. Tips on making the most of the bedroom control room recording even if it’s somewhat small bedroom space? I already have some GIK acoustic panels around this room. I’m considering adding a few more panels to reduce reflections so I can cleanly record vocals and instruments in there and minimize reflections. I know some low end buildup may be inevitable but hopefully not as bad for vocals and acoustic. I’ll just use a DI for bass!
I did it for years and GIK makes great panels. You will certainly enjoy the space
Great video! I'd love to hear your thoughts on a similar subject; Isolation booths for guitar amps. Phase one of my build plan is just to have the live room open and use positioning, mic placement, and gobos for isolation but thinking about building a few small isolation booths in the future. Would love to be able to spend that money elsewhere if it will end up with the same issues as a vocal booth.
Yes, in theory it will because it is all acoustics and the physics doesn’t change. However a very dead amp room could be desirable and certainly needed if you want to crank the amps super loud to get a certain tune saturation or coloring.
Nice video. I recorded vocal in our bands slightly treated rehearsal room, but used a mattress and other stuff to keep those nasty early reflections from coming in. Biggest problem though is the drum kit ringing whenever it can when it‘s not covered in sheets. And the ventilator from our computer also is a nice noise source the singer can hear on his headphones and the DAW on „tape“.
Always a work in progress
Really interesting take on this...makes sense to me. I'd love to hear/see your thoughts on a guitar amp isolation booth. I've seen all kinds of booth sizes over the years. Tracking loud rock n roll guitars in the control room is less than ideal and not very fun haha. I think the one thing all great audio engineers have in common is the ability to work with what they have.
Sure I can do a video on that. Amps are different because some producers don’t want room sound in their amps. I personally love the sound of my amp in my room but I don’t play it super loud.
In principle, it’s the same imo. Let those waves breathe! I’m an ass.
I’ve gotten really good results with prime 11 quadratic diffusion 2’ behind the mic with diaphragmatic absorbers behind the diffusers tuned to the lower end of the vocal frequencies. Then on the side, back, and ceiling, standard insulation absorption to reduce mid and high frequency reflection into the mic. It seems to be just the right balance to reduce the need for a ton of eq, reverb, and delay. Before I just had the insulation everywhere and it made the vocals bass heavy, stuffy, and unpleasant to start mixing with. For sure gotta stay away from just putting standard fiberglass/rockwool absorption everywhere. The vocal booth is 4’w x 5’l x 8’h. It was A LOT of math and planning for the diaphragmatic absorber tuning, quadratic diffusion frequency and distance calculation, and what air gaps were needed behind the absorption panels. Definitely not something to just guess at and throw things up everywhere because it looks cool or because that’s what everyone else has said or done. I think vocal booths can be very useful when treated properly. I used the information from this channel to calculate the values for the diaphragmatic absorbers and what my needs were probably going to be using your information about AMROC. I very much appreciate the help I’ve received from your hard work producing these excellent videos. Thank you
Awesome I’m glad that it was all helpful. And good for you for taking knowledge and your own hands and trying out some thing that makes sense.
Soundproof vocal booth is only necessary if the environment calls for it. I have one since my home studio requires it to avoid capturing barking dogs. It does give me some 300hz build up, but, knowing that makes it easy to fix with an eq cut
If it works for you then you are all good
This was so useful, thank you so much for making this video
Glad it was helpful!
I have a vocal booth. But I use it only for scratch vocals when tracking a live band. When we do the "keeper" we always record in the live room.
Right on
I went a decade without a booth. Built a new one last year. Old clients missed the privacy of the booth. I also like being able to lower the volume of my monitors and not have to put headphones on. I also do vocals better in a booth myself knowing im isolated . But I agree. Acoustically it can be negative. I notice the booth acoustically once a vocal goes beyond a foot away from the mic. Within a foot it’s pleasant in my booth. Something about feeling like I can’t take a drink or move in my chair during a recording is annoying.
Makes sense
I’ve built a booth inside of my home studio (treated) using PVC and moving blankets, so sound can still get through the blankets and it doesn’t create a wall. Would you recommend recording in there or just by my desk. Dope video!
I would just experiment and find what sounds best. In diy situations like yours you just need to play until something works.
I think a lot of it comes down to preference. I find vocalists fit into two camps on this issue, those who like the intimate and private feel of being isolated in a booth with their performance and a little mood lighting and then those who like to set up in the live room and have some space to move and natural light. Having vocalists right next to you in the control room is cool for vibe and connection with artist/producer but it kinda sucks having to critical listen to performances in cans. while trying to be quiet next to the performer. Pro and Cons to everything I suppose, thanks for the great content!
Yeah! In an ideal world you would have a vocal room not a vocal booth.
My little home studio is in a low ceilinged room. It's about 2" above my head. 12' by 15'. I've got a lot of rockwool in between the joists with some open weave cloth to cover it so that the ceiling isn't ugly and fibers don't fall out. I do have some acoustic panels on the wall behind my monitors and bass traps in the corners. I record vocals right here in the room. It's pretty much teh best I can do with what I have but I manage to get pretty decent sounds.
What do you think about things like the Kaotica Eyeball foam thingy for your microphone? What about high passing EQ for your vocals?
I think stick with what you have. Avoid high passing unless it sounds good and probably don’t use the eyeball.
What if your primary recording/ practice/ music room (whatever you want to call it) is something like 9ft×10ft? Is it better to turn this space into a vocal booth and completely acoustically treat it essentially canceling out the "bad small room sound?" I"m working on making gobos right now that are double sided, so one side is reflective and one side is absorbative. In a small 9ft×10ft room would it be more ideal to remove as much room sound as possible(i.e. all absorbative sides of gobos showing) or better to have some combination of absorbitive and reflection(i.e. half of gobos flipped to reflective side?) I understand that a larger room is more ideal than a smaller room, but in this hypothetical situation assume thats not an option most of the time. Also thanks for making this video!
Watch my vid that comes out tomorrow. Ideally you deaden the room and then live. It up with scatter plates
I built (3) 2’x7’ Panels where one side is 3.5” ROCKWOOL & other side has 2” convoluted Foam… hinged together to make a partition w/ Bass Traps… and this guy is right. It will still have Bass/ Woofy/ Mud in your Vocal recordings. So I Track my Vocals reversed in the Control Room where I have it not perfect ( never will ) but sounds a lot better like he said where we Mix! 👍🎧🎚. ( I’m Tracking w/ Telefunken TF 29 Or Neumann U47AI > Rupert Neve “SHELFORD CHANNEL”)
Thank you for being honest with the public. I remember attempting to record a song, back in my college days, when my voice was most robust (several music scholarships and similarly promising prospects). I was at the point where talent alone still outshined the best of my "skills", even compared to now. Yet, when I got in that booth, I was so discouraged. I felt like I couldn't use half my bags of tricks. The engeneer told me, "Yup, this is what you really sound like". I told myself, "What an idiot these people are, telling me the reason you think you sound different is because you've never heard your voice from outside your body.". Firstly, it made no sense, because I heard myself plenty of times from all kinds of recordings in many settings, "outside of my body", and it sounded 10x better than that mess in the booth. I remember thinking, "People literally pay you all to kill their sound and make them have to work 1000X times harder to sound decent.". So, to say I've only heard my voice from inside my body was a ridiculous claim and assumption to dream up. Additionally, even from "inside my body", I can hear the differences between singing in normal rooms "inside my body" when compared to singing in another room/studio booth "inside my body" (If I sounded differently only cuase I was "inside my body", then I shouldn't have heard the differences singing to myself in the booth "inside my body" vs out of the booth "inside of my body" live without a microphone and headphones in both settings. So, clearly, since being "inside my body" was not different, the only thing that could be "different", was the room iteslf. It would be different if I only heard differences in the studio AFTER RECORDING. BUT I HEARD IT IN THE "BOOTH" LIVE). But at the time, I wasn't confident enough to act on my own thoughts, and so adopted that myth, despite knowing better. (Making matters worse, some people who "prefer" that dead sound, usually people who don't sing at all, but play instruments instead, or have very low voice ranges which don't have the issue, or voices that were dry to begin with, try to act like their preferences determine audio dogma, despite being woefully incorrect and inconsistent with research.) I'm glad the times have past, and not only do I know better, but it seems many well learned people like yourelf also know better!👏 👏
(The reflections in a room do NOT add color. The reflections in a room "allow" color. There is a difference. It is the engeneer's job to put in the work on this end, not the vocalist or performer in general. Additionally, a dead room is the most artificially audio engeneered concept there is. It's as fake as reverb, just in the opposite direction. The concept is analogous to asking a sprinter to sprint in outer space or on the moon at the same speed they would on Earth. You may be able to shoot an object faster, but the amount differences in how you'd have to coordinate your body to do so would be drastically different. To act like it's naturally or inherently "superior" isn't very smart.)
I feel the need to inform, incase someone would downplay my perspective. I have the perspective of several, physcis, math, acoustics, and vocal courses, per my Bachelors of Science, Master in science, and half of a Masters in psychology. But, even if I were just a singer, I have ears, just like you.
You don't know what you are saying. Of course your voice will sound different in a vocal booth. You have to adapt to the space if you sing in the bathroom you will sound amazing.
Thanks for sharing! And sorry you had to experience that. I think you should treat yourself to a session in a great studio. Hear the difference and know your vocal skills are great. A dead room will kill resonance and we all need a good room that supports a great vocal.
I had a vocal booth in my home studio and I could never get a good sound out of it. I ended up tearing it down and now I just record in my control room. It sound much more open and natural to my ears.
That lines up with the physics
Very interesting! Also should a voice actor have a larger space for their recordings as well? Or can a 5x5 or a 7x7 booth work fine for voice actors?
Larger will be better but remember large and treated not reverberant
Very interesting! I can see why this would apply to recording musical vocals, but what about VoiceOver and audiobook recording? When there's nothing else except a speaking voice, isn't a booth a necessity?
No only for isolation purposes. A speaking voice will still benefit from more space because the acoustics are the same.
I've heard of people using frame tent style vocal booths inside of a larger room. It's just a frame with moving blankets, duvets, or privacy curtains with sound treatment in a rough square or trapezoid shape, that isn't fully closed off from the rest of the room. I've also heard of people using walk in closets and just leaving the door open, with the vocalist facing outward into the rest of the room. TBH, this is what I've always done, if not just recording in a bedroom or other room with a lot of furniture to dampen some of the echo. I've never had issues like that. But with vocal booths in the traditional sense, as you've described, yeah, I've had some pretty horrible recordings made that way. Smaller vocal booths or isolation rooms work better on guitar, but for vocals, or bass, it sounds terrible. Now I know why.
Glad it helped!
Thank you - very important and useful message
Glad it was helpful!
What about an isolation shield around the mic? Back in the day, I tried just the room but could never get the singer glued to the music. I built a booth and it was a instantly more pleasing result. My new house though, I've been using just a shield with great success.
Yes at the end of the day if it works you cannot argue with good results no matter what everyone else says.
Very interesting. What about those smaller types (half moons) that only cover the back and sides of the microphone? Like the ones from SE Electronics for example. Are those helping with the sound or should those be avoided?
There are two types of these solutions.
Shield and foam inside you stick your microphone inside. About the latter -
You can watch some reviews on YT and compare before and after. The thing is, the sound is duller than in well treated room. But it's better than recording in completely trash conditions.
I have never used them, but I know JH Brandt doesn’t like them. Remember bigger is better and then reduce early reflections.
1.Where should i place the mic when recording in control room?
2. Does sound bounce back from the desk affects my recording?
I would place it close to your listening position. However feel free to experiment. The desk will affect acoustics, but there is very little aside from buying an acoustically transparent desk that will change that. The desk and furniture is just part of studios.
I agree with you 100%. The only thing that these small, dead, so-called vocal booths do is make the vocals sound muddy and dull.
Thanks for watching
I've always thought DIY vocal booths sounded like trash!! haha I remember when I first started recording I was doing it in my closet (which of course is totally busted) because I saw other people doing it. but it sounded so bad! thanks for explaining why :]
You are welcome
Hey, i appreciate this video. I am new to music production and very new to vocal recording. I have a cardiod mic in a barracks room. Where should I start-- trying to accomplish a presentable sound?
It is all about reducing reflections with absorption panels.
AMEN. only if you have, like i do, shallow walls and ceilings such an crutch can help. but you need one of the worst rooms possible to make them useful and at that point more radical steps are needed.
Agreed
I read all of this in a magazine in about 1990 from a professional studio treating dude. I have been saying this myself for decades, often to howls of protest that how dare I not tow the fantasy line of wall padding, led lighting, and analog noise makers. Still, the right reality to carry when doing it DIY. A few couches in a normal room + a dynamic mic will outperform a condensation mic in a cupboard every time. And once that weird cupboard sound is printed, it is not coming out.
🙂
So true, the SM7B is great at room rejection
@@soundproofyourstudioAgreed. Unfortunately, it can kill a singer's sound just as much as dead space in a small room. Honestly, it would just be better to go somewhere else and record, or unfortunately, pay a professional with a larger isolated space imo.
I instinctively knew that but it's really good to have confirmation. What do you think of an SM7B for recording on a small budget in a bad acoustic environment? Male tenor voice that is? Thanks.
I like them for rejection. They have a wooly low end but can sound great on certain vocals. I usually eq the 300-500 hz range. Great mic for the money. Can’t go wrong.
Thank you body.@@soundproofyourstudio
I live next to george Washington bridge. Like I can almost touch the tollbooth. When I track in my room I always get bridge noise. So I turned my closet into vocal booth. It’s dead …. Luckily there’s wood floors so I get something back.
But there’s no way I can track in my “control room” because once everything gets compressed you can hear the bridge traffic.
I do agree that the reflections in my room sounds better than my closet. For now it’s my biggest challenge in regards to tracking vocals 😢
I’ve even tried putting the mic on the far side away from the window w the capsule and facing away. Still too loud. If you have any other sugggestions I’d love to hear it.
I mean the booth is fine. Just not as pretty as a room
Try adding another layer of glass in your window or covering it with a plug. Check window plug in my channel
So If I get the chance to build my own room in my house, and I want it to be treated amazingly, so that I can get great sounding mixes out of it. What are the dimensions I would want? I know large rooms sound better but I don't think I would want anything too massive, just big enough to sound great without also being small :)
Room ratios from Sepmeyer or louden can help as a starting place
Thanks, you are right about vocal booths for a totally wrong reasons.
First, it is a myth that we need a live room for vocal recordings, in this day and age with so much compression and additional processing, having zero reflections is a must. Music from 50 years ago was different, recording techniques were different, listening habits were different, there is no comparison. Also, having reverberations in vocal recordings make the microphone sound totally different, there are all sorts of nasty resonances and build ups, it is a big problem overall.
Second, the real problem with vocal booths is their size. As they are small, there is a lot of comb filtering and this is even worse than the live room nastiness.
Overall, there is no easy solution, as you said there is no trick that can cheat the science and unfortunately the only solution is to have a vocal booth, but a large one and then the vocals will sound great.
Or simply record vocals outside. Zero reflections, only then you can hear all your mics properly. I bet 99.99% of people do not know how their microphones sound actually.
I agree, but It’s dIt’s not think I made my point clear that the vocal room should have almost no reflections. It is still treated like a dead vocal booth but is a room not a booth. A live room vocal as you said is a completely different flavor.
maybe. for this to check out though like w real science you’d want to show tests of different scenarios. some good points about acoustic spaces but tend to think it’s not that straightforward to apply sound source to the basics of room modes and reverb decay. there’s still just so many variables. one method is not 100 perc. better than another; it’s an art, usually. voices vary so much in amplitude and Freq range. mic choice varies (hopefully) a lot. mic technique concerning distance will affect things. mylar thickness on a LDC will. if you’re close-miking then i think all these factors would come first before a room’s effect. but i like that you’re questioning things.. not unlike NS-10 speakers, myth/ habits / groupthink should be challenged. hopefully ppl want real reverb on occasion like i would much rather have a tiled reverb chamber than a booth. but a booth must be fine; majority of tons of vocals have been captured this way right? so it’s just unlikely that your logic of it being wrong is about scientific data. if i’m wrong, awesome, may we see some data :-)
A larger vocal room does not mean it is highly reflective. The point I am making is that no small room can allow the low end to fully form. It is physically impossible to get great acoustics out of small rooms. The vocal room would still be free of first reflections and be mostly absorbent short of the floor and glass from a window.
Blew my mind.
Duh .
The thing specific to the thing, doesn't always help said aspects about said thing.
Tky.
Thanks for watching
What do you think about products like the Kaotica Eyeball? Do they help or hurt the vocal recordings in your opinion?
I don’t think you vocals will sound great with that.
Vocals sound a bit duller with that, but better than in a bad room. Watch some YT reviews to hear samples.
You've made me consider tearing down all my rock wool panels in my downstairs toilet (my vocal booth). Its cramped and i often feel uninspired to be in it and although its great to have a toilet to sit on whilst recording i think its sucking the life out of me... the room that is, and by me, i mean my vocal ha ha. Thanks for the advice! Subd
Yeah may not be doing all that much
Great clip, wish I had seen this 20 years ago before I spent, $5000 my whisper on a vocal both, it looks impressive in my studio but it be honest I have noticed I sound much better singing and playing my acoustic guitar standing up in my kitchen. But the booth does have a very valuable function, I use it mostly as a sound proofed practice facility where I can scream my vocals and practice so I don’t disturb other People in the house. But I have noticed it does sound how can I say not natural.
Exactly, the booth is used for isolation
I’m using my walk in closet as a “vocal booth” kinda of working with what I have.
Right on
Thank you! Super helpful.
Glad it was helpful!
Thanks man, I'm building my studio and was thinking of a vocal booth, this really helps, thanks...
Glad it helped
People that are recording at home or in make-shift spaces can also build collapsable baffles or if you have a space youre going to dedicate to tracking vocals for a while you can build a 'booth' of sorts just dont use foam. You can get cinder blocks & just stuff them with foam then fasten plywood to the cinderblocks & find some Oak hardwood flooring. You dont need much. Nail the flooring into the plywood just be sure you don't have any parallel walls when you're building it. You could also do a half-open booth which Im really not talking about about a booth. Im really just talking about a 5 x 8 space. If you're recording in a bedroom you probably don't need anything. Just set your mic up as close to the middle of the room as you can & you're set.
Whether < auray iso chamber 2 > is good choice instead vocal booth please reply Asap
I don't have treated room am living in town so noisy area
Help me to fix what I want to do for tracking?
You need to focus on isolation. Use my videos to understand isolation first and then acoustics second. Best!
Behind the wall I have neighbors who hear my music and outside the window I have traffic that picks up my microphone. Is there a better way to record vocals without disturbing the neighbors and isolating yourself from the noise outside the window without a vocal booth?
If you have two toilets, you can rip one from tiles and adapt if it lacks windows.
It might be a good option or use some soundproofing techniques to help isolate your room more
@@soundproofyourstudio some shields on the window?
I agree that booths can be detrimental to the vocal recording.
But Our voices don’t produce much under 100hz and that frequency is getting high passed in the mix. So there is less need for concern in that area. The booth cannot resonate a frequency that isn’t being produced by the sound source.
As a mix engineer I can tell you you don’t want to high pass a vocal up to 100 hz. It will send very thin and brittle.
Finally someone said that.
I thought I was weird or something with that opinion about not high passing everything anywhere anytime.
@@soundproofyourstudio
I am also a mix engineer
Depending on the quality of the music, I work on mainly hip hop, r&b, and contemporary versions of that.
I only want my bass and kick under 100 because the pow is the most vital element of the genre and I don’t want anything interfering with that.
Sometimes I use a bell or bandaxal curve on the low vocal range, but it depends. Most of the time a high pass does what I want.
I could see managing the vocal low end more responsibly in genres where the low and sub information is not as crucial, but high pass just works for what I do.
OMG. This is my Matrix moment. DIYed the booth myself a long time ago. I did this GunNRose type of voice. I always thought that the mic was capruring the first sound wave from the voice without reflection.
It would be except low frequencies go right through the insulation.
Finally someone made a video on this and explained it properly. I've been telling people for over a decade big rooms/spaces or even outside (if quiet) will always sound better than a vocal booth.
Glad I could help
What if you are renting so you cant hang things, have sound coming from the house and windows, and dont want to wake family at night with laying vocals?
In that case you should ask the landlord if you can hang or build a move labor system off the floor with stands.
Appreciate you taking time to reply. One more question, what is a move labor system?@@soundproofyourstudio
I totally understand the logical conclusion you arrived at, but Iso rooms have a ton of unique utility. Provided it's an iso room that's been well constructed and built with acoustic design in mind. Not sure a 2'x2' closet is pulling it off. A lot of singers just like stepping into a room free of judgement, where they can belt out 50 takes, crack their voice in the bridge, and perform the song like it's the only thing that exists. It also allows bass and guitar players to isolate the output of their amplifiers and hear what the mics are actually doing while tracking overdubs (often inside the control room and assuming you don't have a live room).
Good points! The iso room can still do that but in a pro studio it should be on the larger side for acoustics. Nobody wants to do that though for utility like you mentioned.
Okay, but what's the best solution for someone who wants to record vocals NOW and doesn't want to spend five years saving up $10,000 to properly treat their room? For literally every other part of the recording and mixing process there's a good cheap solution. You can record guitar use amp sims. You can do the same for bass. You can use MIDI drums. You can mix on headphones. But if you want to get quality vocals, the only solution is 20 acoustic panels and dozens of hours of experimentation for something that might not even work?
I mean, some rooms have unsolvable problems. For example, when I play an E at 80 HZ in my room, it's literally three times as loud as the notes around it. That tells me I have a massive standing wave. You just said bass traps don't go down that low. So why would I bother filling up my room with panels if I'm still going to have that frequency piling up? I've learned to mix on headphones, and I do it quite well, regardless of the BS out there about how you can't do it. But I guess I just have to rent out a studio to sing?
You could try those reflection filters. Keep doing what you like. If it works it works. If not try what others have had success doing.
What about se electronics vocal shields?
I think they are worth trying. Some people like them. In a bad room they are probably better than nothing.
I think the original idea is that you can stuff it with absorbive material and get a totally dry signal, which it kind of does. But yea, the tiny spaces create terrible resonances that are not absorbed at all
Yup, can’t absorb low frequencies
@@soundproofyourstudio the bass frequencies you can high-pass. there are usually terrible modes in the midrange that are the problem. no foam will absorb these
the problem is the tiny little fibers in a lot of the 'foam' people use? It has reflective properties. Thats why if you've ever recorded in someone's 'booth' covered in foam & you listen back it almost sounds like you're off-axis with the condenser even though you know you weren't. What you're hearing are tiny little fibers that actually do reflect sound-waves & the mic can pick that up & you get this weird 'tinny' yet DEAD sound to your vocal.
@@thetruthchannel349 nah, the foam doesn't absorb well below 5k or so. you could make a good sounding booth with a lot of thick fibreglass panels, but that's not what people are doing and it would need a bigger space
Wow I was wondering why it was so difficult to record quality vocals smh
It’s an art form
Just saw some "portable isolation booths" and those sound really terribly bassy because they're just tiny boxes you stick your head in.
I some times need to record children performing in school environments which are usually just big untreated concrete boxes. I think you're right that throwing up a little something to cut down reflections is the best you're going to get.
Thanks for sharing
Standing waves get in the way in most booths that I’ve heard
Yes, very true
Whelp. You just shot down the versatility of the booth I'm planning. But for now it will be a good rehearsal booth so that the neighbors dont think that the cookie monster needs an ambulance. 😅
Haha sorry bout that. But for isolation a booth makes sense l.
Yep that’s pretty much what I use my booth for, to practice on full blast so I don’t disturb other people in the house.. I will now set up recording out of the booth for live takes. I will experiment recording in and out of the booth to get a better sense of the quality of signal I am getting. I bought into the hype…. Well I was young, bright eyed and ignorant.
Viewers need to realize that he is referring to singers who tend to project, and not voiceovers. My decades of recording voiceovers has proven that small booths are fine for the spoken word.
I think vocal booths tend to be okay because people have never tried using a larger vocal room for voice overs. My thinking is that you would be surprised how more volume leads to a better recording. The truth is that much of the art and science of recording has been lost due to shrinking budgets and a shrinking industry (except for Taylor of course) so small rooms must be the norm due to the economics of it all.
good video but i dont agree with 7:18 some artist like "personal space" so they can get into their pocket
Good point
Vocal booths were originally used to separate the musicians from the engineers.
The control room would be the treated room.
Yeah vocal booths are for isolation first
Thanks!
You bet!
I think it is just a matter of taste, I do like better vocals recorded in tiny rooms because it sounds closer and dryer
The room can still be dry and controlled but big enough to reduce fast reflections that color the tone.
My booths have always served me well. Trying to make sure everyone is quiet while you're tracking, don't sneeze or cough in the middle of takes is resolved by having the artist in a different room. The booth isn't for making your vocal sound good. Its for making sure you have a clean recording. How can you hear the reflections in the room with cans playing in your ears? The reflections in the room could be coloring the sound and now you have to try to fix it with plugins when you could have just had the artist in an environment where that doesn't happen.
Yeah it's better to have a dull sounding super clean take with no mid or high reflections and a bass rolloff. It's better for it to sound eerily anechoic, because 99% of the time as a mixer you want to have control over the reverb in the mix. You don't want to be at the mercy of whatever room you recorded in.
The reflections in a room do NOT add color. The reflections in a room "allow" color. There is a difference. It is the engeneer's job to put in the work on this end, not the vocalist or performer in general. Additionally, a dead room is the most artificially audio engeneered concept there is. It's as fake as reverb, just in the opposite direction. The concept is analogous to asking a sprinter to sprint in outer space or on the moon at the same speed they would on Earth. You may be able to shoot an object faster, but the amount differences in how you'd have to coordinate your body to do so would be drastically different. To act like it's naturally or inherently "superior" isn't very smart.
Isn't it like, you both are right, bad sounding room is bad, booth sounds bad, but in certain cases it might be the only poison you are willing to accept having nothing better.
Yeah and honestly, I feel ya. We all don’t have hundreds of thousands of dollars to build epic multi room studios and we still need isolation.
Odd, I have a vocal booth, and my vocals are great!!!! Maybe it's the skills you have as an engineer? I had recorded in a bigger room that was "kinda" treated and also recorded just isolating the vocalist. None sounded better than the booth. I guess you'd have to figure out how much it would cost to treat your main room. None of the singers I've had in my booth was shy about singing in the booth. I believe it made them more comfortable. To each his own I guess.
Never contradict what works for you.
i learned this also from Warren huart cant believe a lot people are still patronizing vocal booths , even kurt cobain hates it
Thanks for watching
Hmmm making me rethink a lot of stuff
Glad it opens up some new perspectives
I don't understand how bass traps wouldn't work in a vocal booth, what vocals are going below 100hz
Bass traps do work and help. The point is that small rooms have more bass problems than larger rooms. This means you are starting off in a more difficult place before even treating the room.
@@soundproofyourstudio but even in a small vocal booth whos voice is going below 100hz
@@soundproofyourstudio oh and thx for esponding i didnt expect a response from you, awsome. i am subscribing right now
a control room or studio room is the ideal recording environment however; some people can't get that; home vocal booths are for people who don't have a studio and/or can't put acoustic treatment all around a room, i would much rather record someone in a vocal booth that in an untreated room. NOTHING is worst that uncontrolled wall reflections
Even working with all those dereverb plug-ins gets you to the point of frustration where the signal is deprived of some primal quality and vocals start having some weird issues, because they start to sound too artificial.
@@---pp7tqexactly, hence why vocal booths would be a good option in that situation. you could remove slight boxiness without effecting clarity and have a usable vocal, but a vocal with wall reflections isn't usable though, in removing the wall reflections you will also remove clarity
Agreed
1st day not having a vocal booth I farted. 2nd day not having a vocal booth 5 people farted. 3rd day not having a vocal booth the whole choir farted.
sry man. if any booth has ANY reflections of any frequencies then you don't have a booth. if the vocalist moves their feet and you hear shoes or muffled sounds coming through the wall, u dont have a booth....
plus, where r u going to find non square/rectangle rooms nowadays? crazy talk man crazy talk.
Hmm
wow
Thanks for watching
Well if that's the case why artist in the rap industry go gold & platinum, im quite sure they all recorded they're music in booths, & i recorded music in booths & never had no quality problems, if you never spit no bars in the booth you dont know nothing, you going by what a dude said in a book you aint mention seeing for yourself, plus all booths aint the same in the first place, maybe the booths your talking about is low budget, real booths cost m💰ney you want good quality you gotta spend good m💰ney period, what you spend is what you get, being cheap gets people nowhere in life, ima leave it like this, spend that cash 💸 if you want that big@$$!!
Good perspective
So Record Companies spend millions of dollar on vocal booths just to get terrible recording that sound like crap? Yet less Millions of records with crap recordings 👍.
Yup yup
Bad singers lead to bad vocals.
I Agree:
1. Bad singers lead to bad vocals.
2. Bad engeneers lead to bad recordings and overall production.
3. Bad enegneers lead to unhealthy recording conditions
4. Bad engeneers lead to unrealistic/inorganic sounds
5. Arrogant vocalists lead to the end of music.
Agreed
Super annoyed rn, thank you.
Sorry to hear that
@@soundproofyourstudio well, seen your remark in the vid, it’s a good thing 😉
dnt just talk.....show us some solid proof that vocal booths suck....????
Well I don’t have a vocal booth in my room. I suppose I could rent studio space so maybe I will make a video on that.
@@soundproofyourstudio then plz dnt spread rumours....m also using it and there is no such thing.
@@lovish9999 these are not rumours. This is scientific peer reviewed and published knowledge. I am describing acoustics. I do take offense to that because there is no need to attack the credibility of respected books, papers and research. Just want to make that clear.
Your vid is misleading, a booth gives the best vocals. A closet is not booth. You have a dynamic mic, you dont need acoustic treatment with those mics. Your vocals still sound bad. Why am i still here?
Your jazz vid is really good bro. Amazing stuff. Back on subject, isolated vocals will always sound better bro. Just giving yourself more work in post@@dfasht1304
Keep in mind a Dynamic mic will still need EQ and Compression before it sounds good. I'm saying this for newbies who think getting a certain type of mic will improve your vocal quality. I've made that mistake because of gear heads giving reviews on mics but leaving out what's on their vocal chain.
yea like that one dude here on yt plugging an amazon mic through an Avalon. The nonsense you see here for views is insane. I use a condenser mic (tlm103). I want an sm7b for fun, but I know it can't replace the Neumann @@ernestwilliams6616
You are wrong. Your comment is misleading and you yourself, though in denial, know how disingenuous you are being. He clearly defined the context he was speaking of completely. He didn't leave a single important detail out. He clearly explained that any larger treated space is better than any smaller treated space. That was the only take away you should have gotten. This trash comparison you're making between a "booth" and a "closet" has no place, and is not sound advice, at all.
@@ernestwilliams6616facts, and it's looking like the guy we're replying is another one of those people buying into the hype that you need a "better" microphone for good results. No, -- you need: (1) "better rooms/room treatment" and/or (2) better audio engeneers.