I think the true villain of Attack on Titan is just the horrors of war, what Eren is doing is totally abhorrent and wrong, but he's just an inevitable consequence of the world around him. And it's not just Eren, one of the biggest themes in Attack on Titan is war and propaganda turning people into devils and making them do horrible things. Eren, Mikasa, Armin, Reiner, Bertholt, Annie, Erwin and so many more, they've all had to commit atrocious acts for what they see as a greater good.
Yeah, it's honestly a snowball of all the BS that was never stopped in the past, like Karl not pushing for a better peace or Ymir not stopping King Fritz and working for him
Honestly the true villain was marley bc they could had just let eldia keep the founder instead of desperately trying to obtain it by turning Eldians into titans and sending them to paradis to kill more eldians
Eren is doing exactly what Marley and the rest of the world was going to do to Paradis which is commit genocide for survival of his people. Just because more people have to die doesn't make him evil. It's a them or us situation.
@@LeanBeyondMeasure Yeah, but Eren's Genocide causes for more repercussions for the planet at large. Paradis dies? Sure, 2% of the population maybe and far less Titans. But everyone else? The world's forests and jungles are screwed, the mountain tops also devastated, wildlife annihilated, atmosphere filled with large portions of steam, which will bring about warmer weather and storms. Hell, not all Nations even agreed with Willy, some didn't want anything to do with the Island, and Paradis had allies like Hizuru (Eldian Empire's only Ally, actually). So while I understand why Eren's doing what he's doing, he's definitely causing more problems for the planet at large than the Marleyans would've, which is something to take note of.
Eren gave his people another chance in life…although he achieved this through the worst means necessary but a genocide was in the future for the people on the island. So in other words it was either genocide or genocide.
For the dumbest people on this planet who think erens genocide is wrong you are dumb. Or haven't seen the whole anime. Marley aka the "humans" literally experimented on the paradise people's blood and literally turned them into titans sent them over the wall to Paradis to eat there own people........................... not only that humans seem to HATEEEEE THE paradise people or they like to call them literally "devils" they wear a badge on there shoulders to identify themselves, they are put into concentration camps in Marley just like the nazi did in ww2 with the jews ....... you are DUMB If you think erens genocide plan is evil. It's survival of the fittest now . Because let me tell you when other cities see what eren can do .... what do you think they gonna do ? They gonna forgive and forget ? They gonna cower ? NO THEY GONNA BUILD FKING NUKES AND WIPE OUT THE ISLAND
At the end of the day, morality not a luxury you can afford when faced with an existential crisis. When your country and people are faced with extinction backed by a global coalition, you throw morality out the window and do what is necessary to protect you and your own.
Facts, morality is something that completely goes out of the window in a world like AOTs. What Eren did was completely justifiable. It was either he becomes a villain and commits genocide or he sees his home, friends and family become victims of genocide. At the end he chose his friends, family etc over everyone else which any normal human would.
This. Its the exact same thing in BSG. You are in a situation where the entire world (or cylons) goal is to eradicate you from earth. Morals have no place here. Its survival or die.
So many people sitting on their L shaped couch want to pretend to be the arbiters of morality with their top down godlike view. But if you are the one in that situation, you don't get that luxury.
@@vihan3423and let’s not forget they started the war Eren was the first one to oppose the Rumbling and looked for any other option but the moment he saw his comrades and his people being gunned down he new they had no chance of winning against that kinda technology so he had two options either let his people go to war and get decimated but atleast they’d go down fighting or take the full weight of the worlds hatred himself cause nothing brings a world together like a common enemy. Is Genocide wrong yes but i sure don’t blame him cause it was either watch his family get destroyed. Buy some time and then get destroyed later or destroy them before they even have the chance.
The reason why they protected him is because they believed in him enough to believe that he would betray zeke and that he was always on their side the whole time, like Armin theorized. They thought he wanted to use the founding titans power to deatroy all titans and the allied forces in Marley, they believed he was going to betray zeke and never thought he would activate the true rumbling and commit genocide.
Wrong Armin thought he would crush them outside worlds army partially enough to sign a treaty. But that treaty wouldn’t work and Eren wants to be free. The outside world will have time to develop a counterattack against the rumbling and eventually invade it anyway. Why? Because resources. Yes gaining the founding titan is important but the resources in paradis is just as important for marleys expansion as a power.
Naturally if you're a Paradis civilian or soldier, you would have support Eren because its either kill or be killed. As an audience, sure we can easily say genocide is bad.
It’s a genocide eitheir way. The genocide of the scapegoats or the rest of the world. No getting out it’s eitheir one or the other. I hate it when people villianify the yeagerists like their physco facists and not like they are human beings being blamed for something they didn’t do and they are fighting for their right to live.
@@MG007. yes. Isayama wrote it that way. Did he HAVE to write in the fact that it’s possible to blood test Eldians? No. Did he have to add in the fact that Hizaru is only helping Paradise for the money and won’t introduce it to the rest of the world. Did he HAVE to add in the fact that the world cheered for the slaughter of paradise? No.
The people living near the walls would beg to differ, but they were killed. The soldiers poisoned by Yeagerist would do the same, but they were killed. The Paradisians who oppose the genocide can't do anything because they can't simply do anything against titans, and probably if they voice their concerns too loud they will be killed, along their families, by their new regime. So, I guess in that sort of way, in order to not be killed by their new fascist government, they have to "support" the rumbling.
@@tarnw3301 Oh. Oh okay. Yeah I want you to imagine Faye getting ripped apart eaten by dogs, I want you to imagine zeke and pieck Titanizing the people of radiko ( idk how to spell it village ), I want you to imagine being a parent of a scout and having them be ripped apart and eaten, I want you imagine the walls getting torn down and a famine happening, I want you to imagine haven your freedom taken away for sins you didn’t even commit. Oh wait you don’t have to BECAUSE IT ACTUALLY HAPPENED. Why in the F@#$ would ANYBODY on paradise want to save the people who are about the kill them and their families. The effing SCAPEGOATS. Guilt is one thing but you think they are gonna lie down and be like “I’m okay with saving a bunch of sadistic nations who united against me for nothing I did. Who are also might turn each other given the fact that technology overpowers titans and the other countries kinda of disliked Marley which is why they were desperate to get the founding titan in the first place thus keep the other countries beneath their booth and kill all Eldians over there too because titans would be useless. Yeah totally sorry kids you gotta die so a bunch of racists can live.”
The World: Declares War on Paradis with everyone else hating Eldians and wanting to see them all die. Eren: I just want to defend my home and friends from everyone, literally everyone in this world trying to kill us. Characters: nah fam, we gotta die. Seriously though, Marley did call for war first. Do you think Paradis can last against the might of the world? No, no they can't. Thus that's why Eren activated the rumbling. The World is basically wanting to kill all Eldians. Eren is begging Hange for help and wanting her to tell him a plan. However, there's no time to make one and thus why it is sloppy and why many oppose on the plan. Though it's a head scratcher when the world wants you dead and you have no favors to give to them. It'd be different if there was time or other solutions but there isn't and Marley caused tensions to spark. Remember, Marley declared war first. Thus setting events into motion. If Marley hadn't said anything and continued to invent new weapons to beat the world in a arm's race. Then Eren would not have activated the rumbling. Thus proving them wrong. They were proven right because they themselves declared war first.
Declaration of war or not, Eren would've probably used the rumbling anyway, simply because that's what he wanted. I don't want to go deeper because idk if you're a manga reader, but chapter 131 explains the situation quite well.
Then pound Marley into the dust. Marley isn't the entire world. That's like annihilating the entire rest of the world because Germany was doing a genocide in WW2. Ridiculous.
@@Gangerworld it literally was the entire world. It even showed us in the first set of episodes. How other nations view people from Paradis. Udo, The Kid apart of The Warrior Unit was treating an enemy combatant and the man was telling Udo. That he was a filthy devil and that he rather die then be tainted by the devils. It's not just Marley, it's everyone. Tybur was essentially declaring war on paradis on behalf of the world. There's a reason so many important officials were there, why press was at the location.
The short answer is yes. Everyone forgets that when the rumbling is first brought up Eren was the first to try to avoid a rumbling at all costs even though he has seen it in the future. The way the story is written there is no other alternative unless he excepts his own and every Edinan's death. Is it right to just accept the death of your entire people? Zeke thought it was Eren didn't think so. I wouldn't either. You can speculate about an infinite ways to not do a rumbling but thats not the point. Because thats not the way the story is written.
We don’t know the specifics on what Eren saw so we don’t know if he exactly saw him doing the rumbling. He only saw what was seen in Grisha’s memories. On top of that Eren doesn’t really accepts any compromises on any plan as shown with Zeke’s original proposal. Armin and the others came up with a plan of doing the rumbling on a smaller scale which would buy them more time and give them an upper-hand against the world. Armin literally had a plan that could’ve work practically. Sure it isn’t definitive nor perfect but it’s definitely provides a way to a better plan or situation. The rumbling was never used as a last resort, Eren was very fast and unhesitatingly uses it. Conflict between the nations didn’t even begin and yet Eren was already planning on getting himself to Zeke so that they could start the rumbling. If the rumbling was truely a last resort it would’ve been used when there has had been a substantial lost of life on Paradis and the threat of extermination of their entire race came to be a big possibility. No one in history has ever decided to nuke an entire country just because one city was attacked. It would’ve been the easiest and laziest way to win a war as it would neglect the lives of the many casualties caused by its destruction.
@@BigJMC but that’s erens whole thing. He’ll take others freedom before they have a chance to take his like he said. Your right we don’t know exactly what he saw in the vision but it’s not impossible that he knew for sure Marley and the rest of the world would come for them. Even if he hadn’t seen that in the vision the situation was moving towards that happening anyway and technically eren did wait till war was officially declared on paradis before he began his assault. And you said the rumbling should’ve been used only when many lives had been lost to eldia. But isn’t that exactly what happened when Marley came to paradise to retaliate? Did you not see the bodies that were piling up on paradis since they didn’t expect Marley to retaliate so quickly? That’s the exact last resort condition you explained and then the rumbling followed as you said should happen.
@@galarstar052 it’s unfortunate that Ramzi and the cliff baby have world leaders that desired war. World leaders that called for Genocide. Eren is fighting this war with the rules that the world put on the table
Eren’s friends didn’t know about the Euthanasia plan until Yalena revealed the plan while they were in prison. What they thought Eren was going to do was to do the rumbling on a smaller scale against the global alliance’s military, not against the entire world. That’s why Armin was advocating for Eren after the prison scene and telling everyone that Eren wouldn’t go through with the Euthanasia plan because it wasn’t like him to do so. Also what Eren is doing is proving Marley correct in their assumptions about Paradis and their threat to the World which has complicated the matter even more. On top of that Marley was pressured into getting the founder because of the growing tensions and pressure of the world on Marley as they were at the edge of conflict with other nations as well as Eldian restorationist trying to get their hands on the founder. The only thing that was stopping other nations from attacking Marley was the Titan powers that Marley held but even the age of titans was coming to an end thus they needed the founder’s power for more control and influence over the world. It can be argued that Marley brought this upon themselves but the same can be applied to Paradis and the destruction of wall Maria as Marley and the rest of the world was oppressed by the Eldian Empire for 2000 years.
The present people of paradis had nothing to do with what their ancestors did and no memory of it. All marley had to do was leave em alone. They brought it on themselves
@@DJsEDG Something you and many others forget is that Marley did not know that the people of Paradis had their memories erased. They also did not know of the vow renouncing war. The only people who knew were the Royal family, the leaders in the walls who got overthrown in season 3, and the Tyber family. So for all Marley knew the people of the walls still held resentment for them and the founder could unleash the rumbling at any time. It wasn't until Tyber's speech right before Eren's slaughtering of innocent people did the people outside the walls find out the truth.
Out of the million of things eren could use his god like power on why use it on the rumbling? Simple, eren wanted to wipe everything away. However, i believe eren actually never wanted to kill anyone. Eren has always been a guy to strive for freedom. To live without limitations or shackles removing his free will. And able to do any thing for that freedom. And in Armins book, this is what he saw. This is why he was so disappointed when he found out what actually was outside the walls. A world that wouldn’t ever let him be free due to his race. A world where he couldn’t ever be free. This is why when hes apologizing to ramzi he is constantly telling him sorry. He feels bad having to kill ppl but at the end of the day if haves to kill them in order for him to be free then he will.
Truly well said, my friend. He never really wanted to kill or hurt anyone, but the world led him down and forced him to follow such a path, cause if he don't his nation would be destroyed. "All I ever wanted to do was save your life, I never wanted to grab a knife". Hits me hard.
@@_joesunil_23 he literally killed people as a child, yes they killed Mikasa's parents but the world DID NOT tell him to do that. Eren is violent by nature, not a bad person, but you can't tell me he doesn't want to hurt anyone.
@@Tanandrum he has the mental capability to do anything such as kill people or cut off his own limbs, but his killing to him has purpose. I believe part of him just wanted to flatten the world because it was so cruel and freedom couldn’t ever be achieved, all whilst giving a future for his group.
If Eren is not a Villain, than Thanos is not a Villain either. Regardless of their motives. It’s the action that matters more than the motive. Exterminating 80% of the World using the Founder’s Power is no different from wiping out half of Life with the Infinity Gauntlet.
But, the difference is.. Thanos is not under a threat. Whether he wipe out half of living being or not,he is already free.The whole universe doesn't even making an alliance to wipe out Thanos and his people. Thanos is Insane to think wiping out half of living being would be better for the whole universe. Meanwhile.., If Eren don't do the Rumbling, Marley and other nations would commit genocide against Eldians. Even his method is too extreme, he thinks It's the only way to ensure the survival of Paradisian. For Eren, it's either them or us .
Thanos doesn’t have anyone threatening and justifies his actions by thinking what he is doing is for the betterment of society but it isn’t, Eren knows what he is doing is wrong and a terrible thing to do but he has no other choice. So yeah they are different and by your logic if the action is all that matter than for example you protecting yourself from someone trying to do you harm is the same as murdering someone for no reason which is a very chaotic mindset to have
Do you think there's a solution to Eldian's slaughter without murder? I see people saying the rumbling was too far, but realistically, there is no other option that would stop it.
Yea there never is. Marley and the rest of the world did the right thing when they killed eldians and segregated them after the crumble of the eldian empire. It was too dangerous right? Proof is that there have always been attempts to reestablish the eldian empire. So nobody ever did anything wrong
Armin already provided the solution, A small scale rumbling against the global alliance’s military which would’ve lead to the surrender of the country or even the occupation of the country by Paradis but Eren didn’t even try to do that, all he did was make a few diplomatic proposals and attempts a relationship and then just gave up and decided to kill everyone outside the walls because he couldn’t be bothered with actually dealing with the fundamental problems that caused the war and hatred against Eldia. It’s been demonstration that Eldians can definitely fit into modern society, even progressive ideas were starting to form with Magath having doubts about his action and being concerned with the mass death of Eldians on the island in the conversation with Willy. Falco understands the war against Eldia and the world and understands the problems in society. Gabi was able to change and come to an understanding of the people on Paradis. A lot of warriors work with high ranking officials especially Zeke. The Marleyan guards cared for the warrior candidates and put their life on the line to protect Gabi. These are changes that has been happening and the treatment of Eldians has improved a lot and was a lot better compared to Grisha’s generation.
@@LeBillionn while I agree The Ending wasn't The Best at the same Time it's message was consistent with The Story AKA War is inevitable because even after Eren wiped out 80% of The World a Hundred Years or so later that 20ish% came back and destroyed most of Pardis Island and most of its People But guess what happened when they didn't Kill ALL of Pardis Island's People? A Girl found a Tree very similar to The Tree that gave Yimir her Powers and so presumably this New Girl will become The New Founder and might go out for Revenge against The World So like I said The Ending isn't The Best but it is at least consistent
@Daniel Jaramillo But that's the fad now, to prefer the extremely dark, tortured soul overlord characters. Morally perfect, isn't saying "Naw, let me know cause Armageddon." Thats normal to NOT want it. Everyone who agree with Eren can never give a solid argument. As much as the theme implies, if Eren succeeded, Eldia wouldn't do anything but infight, like they had, has and always will do.
His actions are very justifiable bru he was trapped in walls with no knolage of anything and thought that there was only monsters outside trying to kill them and then when he learned it was marleys fault and caused all that imo his actions are justifiable they declared war first too
@@yeye3398 so does that mean every innocent has to die as well, most of the worlds population did not want war but it was forced upon them by Marley, Marley definitely deserves it but the other nations don't, Eren is killing animals and people who had nothing to do with this like Ramzi, it seems pretty unjustifiable to me.
@@joetad1956 i aggre with u but there was no other way he could have done it without killing innocent people and when Marley did that to him it and what you said starts a whole new problem they’re fault for joining the alliance with Marley
The lesson I can get from this is coming from Isayama's favorite visual novel, where AOT is based on, Muv Luv Alternative: "While our main objective may be same...with differing values comes differing methodologies"
They did. They offered a partial rumbling to deter an attack while using the time it buys them to continue building diplomatic relations and show the world they aren't the same as King Fritz' empire that terrorized the world. You can argue the merits of that plan just fine, but the fact is that they did very much offer an alternative. It is not Eren's right to decide the future of his entire nation, and the entire world, on his own whim. How arrogant is that? Who thinks a single person should get to dictate who lives and dies, and whose lives are worth saving or not? He left all of his friends completely in the dark as to his true intentions while saying it was all for them. Did he ever ask them if they'd want to continue living in a post-apocalyptic world? No, the fact is he selfishly chose what he thought was best for him. If nothing else, that is why the audience should be anti-Rumbling at this point. Because one person shouldn't just get to decide to end it all. Keep in mind, Eren is a great, well-written character. But that doesn't mean I agree with him as a person in the story.
Use the Colossal Titans to attack military bases or threaten enemy nations. Even one Colossal can stomp an entire nation. Another alternative would be to use the Colossals as a means of defense for the island of Paradis, rather than carrying out mass world genocide which could also halt the technological development of the island of Paradis
@@krishdutta5466 there isn't that many colossal Titan to guard all the countries. Also they are useless in front of bombers we've seen in the ending where paradis got eradicated in future
The question is. What would you do if the world was coming to kill everyone you love and know? You'd be surprised who would choose Eren's way would you?
always jegerist!!! good comment, i am so sick from these comments it is wrong blabla, Koni killed his friend for what ?for peoples who even doesnt know personaly what a brutal he should be more evil the Eren, most importants in life is yours family then friends,
Exactly. Eren did it because Marley formed an alliance with all the world leaders through Willy Tybur. The whole WORLD was against Paradis. Either do the small-scale rumbling, wait 50 years, outside technology gets so advanced that Eldia gets wiped out, or kill all your enemies and end the cycle of hatred. That’s how Eren thought.
The question shouldn't be whether or not eren's actions are understandable, because everyone and their mother can completely understand the position Eren was in. But regardless, if even if said actions are understandable, it doesn't make it any more justified. You can't possibly try to justify the deaths of millions of people who posed no threat to Paradise and were not even racist against Eldians in the first place. I can understand why Eren did what he did, but at the end of the day, he's still just feeding into the cycle of hatred
*Finally a video that uses constructive arguments for both sides while at the same time not taking either side and does not promote more stupid toxic behavior* 👍
Uh oh someone forgot something, they prtoected eren because they assumed he was doing rumbling demo version. They turned against him because he went full genocide
in time of eren return to paradis, the paradis military already consider to just fed eren to historia, because the inability of hange and armin to came up with a decisive plan to salvage the situation... even if eren do partial rumbling and just destroy world military and have 50 years to completely modernize and industrialize, it didnt change the outcome for paradis, simply by manpower, firepower and war experience. just like in the aditional pages paradis got decimated because them didnt have experience how to wage war with other human nation. just like 2nd battle for shigashina odm gear maybe good for killing titan, but not so much against well armed and professional soldier with machine gun in a airship. even if after the partial rumbling marley and the rest of the world agree to sign peace treaty, it doesnt matter. after the world regain its military might once more at the end of the day peace treaty will become just a piece of paper, and dont underestimate the determination during wartime just like how american not bent the knee after the pearl harbor attack. i can imagine similar situation happen in marley just like to US after pearl harbor attack, whole nation got more angry and vow to take revenge and young man sign for military service. even if just say all ship just got destroyed after partial rumbling, it doesnt matter marley just will keep build another one with territory extend whole continent marley must be a industrial powerhouse just like US. and with conflict including the whole world its simply too ez to replace initial loses to partial rumbling. and i cant see why the ship will engage the partial rumbling in the first place, if you guys read the manga, odiha citizen escape the rumbling by simply using boat. to be fair partial rumbling will destroy marley naval base or another military infrastructure but it can be rebuild or move somewhere else.
also partial rumbling will be a ineffective, slow and indecisive compare to full rumbling. with partial rumbling paradis will just give marley enough time to counter approaching collosal titan. i mean we already see anti titan artillery, its not that hard to put them in an airship with makeshift turret or simply put them in cargo bay and shot from safe distance. what terrifying with full rumbling is the opposite with partial rumbling its effective because after it completed the opposite side will be no more, quick with scale the whole world its nowhere will be safe to relocate military infrastructure and decisive because the marleyan military will not have time to figure it out how to kill single collosal titan
If we draw from real life history tho a partial rumbling that only takes out the military woulda been fine because think abt it after the rumbling the land is completely fucked beyond repair that means no expansion and and barley any modernization. If there was a partial rumbling it could have ended up just like the end of the war with Japan after we destroyed 2 of there city’s she stayed to help them rebuild and helped them come up with a government and now Japan and america have had a loving relationship with eachother ever since so not too hard to imagine that could happen here too
What Eren doing is similar to launching nuclear weapon to protect his own country. It's like your country invaded by many countries and will be genocided if you lose, the only way to win and protect your own country and people is the nuclear weapon.
@@ThePervySag3 Not really. US can still win a war without nuclear weapon, but Paradis sucks in conventional warfare, they cannot win a war to survive without nuclear weapon(rumbling).
@@ThePervySag3 its not pararel to what paradis facing prior to the rumbling, its more like what japan faced after "visit" from commander perry, if japan not bent the knee pretty sure japan will be another colony just like Philippine. Also its not complete pararel either no one want to kill every japanese in their homeisland during that time.
It was either genocide or the Marley having continuous control of titans and the world. Eren realized the world will never be free as long as titans exists. Marley already had the armor , female cart and beast titan. The beast titan has power to turn eldians into titans. This allowed Marley to be a very powerful empire and enslaved the eldians. They were able to go through a period of industrial revolution and innovate in technology compared to other civilizations. The marleyians feared the founding titan due to its ability to cause the rumbling and end the world so that is why they wanted to control it for themselves. Eren actions weren’t justified but his intentions to save paradise and end the cycle of death is right
What makes Eren such a compelling character for me is that he IS morally incorrect, he just doesn’t seem to care. He is devastated with the lives he had to sacrifice to go through with the rumbling, but he simply believes that there was no other way. His friends take priority over everyone for him, and he believes that only when the entire rest of the world is eradicated, that his friends will be freed from hate and oppression, and will achieve true freedom, which is what Eren has cared about most of all since he was a child.
I think Attack on Titan has many great messages, mostly delivered as cautionary tales. The consequences of racism, classism, nationalism, imperialism, historical revision, government propaganda, lack of education, political warfare, terrorism, cultism, guilt by association, sins of the father, etc. Even when the story and pacing feel a bit off at times, I think it deals with mature concepts and themes that feel timeless, impactful and relevant. It shows you the many types of forms that hatred and discrimination take, hoping that you won’t repeat the same mistakes that the characters of this world made. You can’t beat hatred and discrimination with more hatred and discrimination.
I think sins of the father is something that is just ridiculous. The descendants should never be held responsible for actions they never did and decisions they didn't make. Even the bible states that to blame the son for the fathers action and vice versa is actually a sin.
The biggest problem with the rumbling, besides all the genocide, is that it doesn't actually solve the main problem, it doesn't stop the cycle of hatred. As Erwin pointed out (in I believe season 2), as long as there are two or more people on the Earth there will always be conflict. (Paraphrasing) The problem isn't any one group of people. As the Warriors & Eren found out, there are good & bad people on both sides (on all sides). And as we saw from Hitch's perspective, the people inside the walls are already divided & fighting amongst themselves. The answer does not lay in defeating your enemies (and it certainly isn't genocide). The answer can be found with Gabi, with Sasha's dad, in learning to understand your enemy, to understand one another. Until, as a society, we learn how to do this, the cycle of hatred will always persist, regardless of the rumbling In the immortal words of Marco, "What are you in such a rush for? We haven't even had a chance to talk this through."
@@Loki-us8zl Me too Hopefully, with part three Isayama will have enough time to thoroughly make this point, because I believe it is the most important point of the series
By rumbling Eldia would've been protected from hardcore racial discrimination and cycle of hate for 2000 years, any civil war within the Island would not've been aggressive as wars in S1,2,3,4.
@@tatakaw i see your point, but i still do think thats not enough to justify indiscriminate genocide, esp towards countries that werent even involved in isolating and killing eldians. Plus, the rumbling just gave the world an even more solid reason to destroy eldia, esp if eren's intention was to only murder 3/4ths of it. The cycle of hate against eldians ended up repeating. Also the purpose of the rumbling was to buy eldia enough time to build a military and conveniently only to protect his loved ones (mikasa, armin, connie, historia, jean) and the quality of life theyll live. It was only to buy them enough time until theyve grown old and died. He didnt care batshit about what happened to eldia after. But lets say he did, and a full scale rumbling did happen, the civil wars would still be particularly intense given the collateral damage to property and life eldians experienced during the rumbling.I think isayama's writing is shaped by japan's pacifist stance after world war 2. His writing seems to be anti-war and conflict, despite the graphic and action packed sequences in the manga and anime. It never glorified death and destruction as something necessary or victorious.
Why did Eren go as far as trampling the world when simply Marley would be enough? Isn't using Marley destruction as an example to the show the world the consequence of attacking Paradis enough? Not to Eren, not when his lifespan reaching its end. He only has a few years left and when he dies, so is any protection he can provide his homeland. So he chose the most drastic measure that will ensure the best possible position for it after the rumbling end. There are much better options than genocide but those options is not available to a man with only 1 or 2 years left.
Eren did it because Marley formed an alliance with all the world leaders through Willy Tybur. The whole WORLD was against Paradis. Either wait 50 years, outside technology gets so advanced that Eldia gets wiped out, or kill everyone and end the cycle of hatred. That’s how Eren thought.
@@ErenYeager-oi6hu All involved parties are aware of that but a global genocide is a far too horrifying idea for anyone to go with. That's why they opted for an option that would not weight heavily on them. The partial rumbling plan, the euthanizing plan are attempts to solve the problem without causing an astronomical scale of death. But non of that is a definite solution. One option is the same as toss a nuke for diplomacy advantage, it leaves the fear and hatred intact if not stronger and a cold war would follow. As you said the cycle will continue and it will continue on a much larger scale without Eren in it. And Zeke plan won't work because the enemies of Paradis have other motives asides from the titan threat. They will not spare the Eldian on the island. For Eren, doing the rumbling is the only option to eliminate all the enemies of his homeland.
Willy Tybur declared war on Paradis, a war that the whole world seemingly agree with. As a soldier in a war, you fight for your faction to defeat the enemies.
@@EckhartLuthor 100% but as mentioned in the video. Eren realized the last time he did nothing and chose to trust that his comrades would come out on top, they all died. So he decided that he has to do it all himself and come up with his own plan etc. to keep them safe even though in his plan he could have easily gotten his friends killed *cough* Sasha! *cough*
@@ErenYeager-oi6hu Someone else would just take Marley's place if the Rumbling was wasted in destroying a nation. It literally took Eldians 4 years just to seal the walls while Marley launched an Attack on Eldia just a few weeks after their defeat in Liberio. Eldia just wouldn't survive
Oh and Hail King Floch 😅… there is definitely not an “overwhelming majority against Eren” on Paradis, just the Scouts from the 104th. Now there are people, like 99% of people (same in our world) that would feel sick that it has to be done, but in that world it really did come down to kill or be killed; that’s NOT a hard decision… Obv Yaegerists AND likely 99% of citizens of Paradis are for it.
Eren knows his friends will stop him, he could take away their Titan powers with the founder but he hasn’t. He wants the world (what’s left of it) to see the “Devils” of paradise as heroes. Eren is playing 4D chess
I would honestly lay down my life if it means I don't have to kill other human beings. Everyone says "There's no other way!" but I personally find standing by principles of goodwill to be more satisfying than continuing the cycle of hatred that Isayama so beautifully shows. (i.e. Gabi breaking it via her great development) EDIT: I was pointing to not committing genocide. Obviously, it is easy for me to say this behind a computer screen. When the people we care about are in danger, it would probably be a different story.
@@F3lipe-u8x He's trying to present himself as virtuous because it's easy behind a monitor but if push came to shove he would do what all humans do and protect their loved ones, or at least i hope he would, otherwise he's insane or brainwashed to an extreme degree. You can't go against human nature unless you're insane or brainwashed.
@@edwardirwin3478 It's more about not committing genocide. Obviously, I would fall to human nature when it came to people I love. There is no way you can stand by and watch bloodshed like that unfold.
I think armin had an idea of what eren wanted when he remembered what he said in season 3 when looking at the sea. He remembered eren saying what if we kill all the enemy over there. I think that’s what made armin believe he wasn’t with zekes plan
6:33 The rumbling doesn't affect Floch because he has seen first-hand the death of all his comrades, friends and his captain too. Floch was radicalised at that moment. He felt the guilt of surviving and felt like making something out of his life by supporting Eren finish Paradis' enemies. And unlike the rest of the Alliance he has the ability to think for himself ;P
>And unlike the rest of the Alliance he has the ability to think for himself are you an idiot, he litteral kills a volennter for refusing to accept that his homeland got killed by the same people he helped. Floch legit told the volennters "be our honoray slaves or die" Oynakpoon pointed out the hyporacy of the yeagerist during his would be final moments. fuck if you read the manga, the yeagerist instal freedom through fucking tyranny even worse than the reiss. Floch is the defenition of a nationalist, eren just felt backed into a cornor. And if you think im using fancy words to make him look bad, im not his charcter was tramitaized to the point of wanting his eneimes to paint eldias soil red, and to restablish the eldian empire. And we all remeber how the first one ended, conquer everyone but be the maykers of ur own destruction. Kioymi was right, ending the world didnt change it, only made it smaller. And erwins line of humans fighting till one or few remians happened with the empire, and guess what floch is trying to restablish the island rumbling isnt the end-all be all. This empire will end exactly like malrey did when they inherited the empire, never got rid of the instutions, just put themselfs uptop and eldians at the bottem, but now eldia is taking back those intitutions that sparked hate. and god knows how that ends
how are the alliance not thinking for themselves? they're making the active choice to oppose Eren to do what's right, not just accepting that he's gonna genocide the world and letting him do it.
The scouts didn't support the euthanization plan, they didn't know about it until Yelena told them and a few minutes after that Paradis was under attack, so they fought to protect the Island mostly and because Armin convinced them that Eren wouldn't go with the Euthanization because it goes against his beliefs.
The scouts fought for eren in shiganshina, because they thought he will just do a small rumbling, taking out the military and then return paradis. They agreed with a small scale rumbling, thats why armin said "he's on our side!" when he only saw the wall going down in shiganshina. He only said that something is off when he saw Maria being down too.
There are indeed many layers to Eren's motivation, but 1) Scouts simply had no idea about Zeke's euthanasia plan. If you reread/rewatch flashbacks, you'll see that their original plan was to use a small portion of rumbling to partially destroy marlean forces and continue passing Founding titan across royal line for 50 years until some kind of peace agreement is done between Paradise and the world. In the very last episode we see that even eldia-sympathizers are rather ready to claim Paradise an existential enemy than to do something against eldian oppresion, so Eren realizes there is no other option. 2) Eren is a product of toxic environment, however he is also a product of his own actions. Remember that Carla was eaten by Dina because of Eren's command (as he needed Bertholdt to stay alive for the future). We can speculate about logic of timeloops and absence of causality here, but the rumbling was one and the only option for Eren because he has always been like this. He is all about freedom, and he can't stand the idea of Historia and her children replicate the fate of Ymir and her daughters. 3) As it was mentioned in the comments, Eren simply hated and despised everything about non-freedom of the outside world, so we get back to point 2. 4) As a machine that can't stop itself, Eren simply obeyed his fate and hoped that his friends will eventually stop him (his very last conversation with Armin in the final chapter). It's like "yeah rumbling is bad and stuff, but everything is messed up in my head and I can't stop it". So in my opinion, it was simply "it's us or them" for Eren plus his own principles like ultimate yearning for freedom. In the end Eren seems like nihilistic Lelush-style villain, who unites everyone against him just to make peace in the world more likely if he is stopped.
His friends didn’t know about the euthanization plan. They found out about that plan after they were arrested. They thought they were going to only do a small scale rumbling.
Some people have called eren wanted a full scale rumbling and not search for other options, bruh did they even saw S4 pt 1&2, like when he try with diplomatic way
Anyone who thinks Eren is in the right are ignoring the literal main theme of the show: Violence leads to more violence, and creates a never ending cycle of war. I understand Eren’s perspective and actions but he is not justified in those actions at all.
4:35 they helped him because without him paradis would be lost. and they had hope eren is going to do a small scale rumbling 8:00 where to run? there is no realistic escape. the only option would be airships and bunkers but there arent many. and everything would be destroyed afterwards so people couldn’t start a new life 9:32 he was disappointed with the outside world. his meaning of freedom didn’t match with it. i don’t think he would step back even if there was an option
im pretty sure his friends fought for Eren because it was either that or die by the invading Marleyians, dealing with the possible euthanization was something to worry about when people aren't pointing a gun to your head
I think Armin & the scouts helped Eren because they figured he had a different plan than Zeke's, a better one. And, well, it certainly was different, but definitely not better
AOT isn't a show about right or wrong anymore. Marleyians and the world are right to dispose Eldia because they can turn into man eating titans and the threat of the Rumbling always existed. Eren is right to destroy the world that is trying to kill his people, even if it meant the Rumbling. The Rumbling as of now was the peak moment for it to happen. Had the outside world developed more, then it would even become rumbling resistant. It's live or die on both sides, fight for your life. And in the end, the fittest survives
I think we can, it depends on how strong the structure if said its just ordinary basement i think it will collapse due to weight of collapse building, if subway tunnel, underground military base or cave i think it can hold. With downside of the entrance got blocked by debris or die by lack of oxygen
Absolutely, completely, 100% not. Not only the weight, but the sheer number of the titans, plus the heat. You'd either dir by being flattened, from starvation from waiting it out and/or resources being destroyed or my favorite, you'd cook. They are EXTREMELY hot and coming near them sets you on fire (See Armin and anonymous = avoiding a spoiler). If one is that hot, then imagine 100s of millions huddled together? Other than flying, it's no way to survive
He gave Eldia freedom at the cost of his own life. By no means is wiping out 80% of humanity justified, just that he had to do it or they would be wiped out.
..No? they didnt back Eren up to support the euthanization plan. they backed up Eren because they trusted Armin when he said he doesnt believe Eren is actually on Zeke's side. they supported eren getting to Zeke in hopes he would betray Zeke and use a partial rumbling to deter attack on the island and send those titans to take out the allied forces. The reason they "backed down" is because eren clearly wasnt doing that. he was sending all of them. which is genocide on the world. which is wrong. idk if you missed that but it was clear to me at least.
4:35 I don't know if you missed the scene at the prison cell but they choose to help Eren because Armin convinced them (and they were convinced because the plan was too out of character even for this supposedly changed Eren) that Eren's plan is the 50 year partial rumbling instead of the eutanasia plan.
That why Comparsion of Hitler and Eren are just stupid in my opinion, for Hitler he is a mianic mentally evil man who wants to touture jews, for eren his actions are not justice but He understandable
Yeah, but he made his point crystal clear to the world that never mess with the people of paradise. You will never get away with it. You may end up giving rise to another devil. And also he gave them the perfect example that karma will always get to you no matter what.
@@TheSinisterkelly that's exactly why he planned to wipe out the whole world, so there won't be anyone left even after 100 years to come after the Eldians.
I guess Isayama was just tired after writing AOT for many years. So he made sloppy plot to rush ending and f*cked up with main characters in the process of creating chaotic environment. People are just fighting about right or wrong on a sloppy ending it's sad. Neither Eren had the rights to start rumbling nor Eren's friends had the rights to kill their own people. In the end there's only one truth, "Reigner always will be Isayama's favorite son."
There is no villain in AOT. Legit no one is innocent. Eren, Reiner, Armin, Bertholt, etc. Everyone has blood on their hands. And you really can’t blame them. We were both shown that both Marley and Eldia were tyrannical empires. The Alliance and the Yeagerists both have good reasons. One side wants to save other nations and other side wants protect themselves. So you really can’t blame either party. It’s not to prove which ideology is right or wrong. It just shows what people have to do to live in this cruel world. My only problem is that I wish isayama gave the alliance a solution to have peace between eldians and the rest of the world if they were to stop the rumbling. I also wish he showed marleyans not as a monolith because he just made them and other races in AOT as just bigoted people that hates eldians. I mean could’ve had some of the non-eldians who wanted peace with the paradise eldians.
You know, I've always wanted to discuss Attack On Titan on UA-cam. But I know that eventually more experienced and popular UA-camrs well do it better than I can. Uh. But I do like participating in comments. I think it's just a complicated set of circumstances, and Eren was the person destined to simply carry out what he thought was right with immense power and great misjudgements
No misjudgment. Eren did it because Marley formed an alliance with all the world leaders through Willy Tybur. The whole WORLD was against Paradis. Either do the small-scale rumbling, wait 50 years, outside technology gets so advanced that Eldia gets wiped out, or kill all your enemies and end the cycle of hatred. There was no choice.
Eren isn't, realistically the villain. The villain truly is "The Attack Titan" and it's will. It has a constant will and desire for freedom, and it's set its gaze upon destroying EVERYTHING to achieve that freedom. Flashback to S1 EP25 when Eren says he'll destroy the entire world, that was the Attack Titan speaking pretty much. It's also Ymir's secret hatred for how she was treated.
Eren is wrong. The only reason the present situation is "it's either us or them" is because between the two Jaeger brothers, they've systematically removed all other options for defending the island. As long as Marley was fighting the rest of the world as was in S4EP1, Paradise was safe.
Isayama really just wanted a dark ending, simple as that. But as he grew as a mangaka, as a person and as his range of audience grew, he realized that... he was freaking lost, he didn't know how to wrap up the plot. With enough pressure to get it over with he just did what he could. For example, taking a yo yo and giving one half to the ending defenders and the other the the ending justifiers. 80 percent and done. And mostly catering to shippers and writing to make the episodes fun. But the plot is agonizingly half-witted.
"Why did his friends support him if they thought he was doing the euthansia plan" No offense, but this is like a fundamental misreading of what happened. Armin and the gang explictly didn't think eren supported the euthansia plan. They thought he was doing the 50 year plan, not the full rumbling.
Eren and Zeke basically had the exact same Idea but they stood on different sides. In another Video where someone ranked Titan shifters from good to evil Eren was the second most evil shifter while Zeke was the nr.1 evil Shifter. I think it should be the other way around because Zeke wanted to kill all eldians while Eren wanted to kill the entire to let the Eldians be free. On the one Hand Zeke wanted to kill a smaller "Group" of people in order to cause Peace. Eren on the other Hand acts within this "small Group" and of course wants to kill everyone else to achieve Peace. --> Eren would kill a far bigger group of people than Zeke
I got big problems with this video. 7:57 - Somewhere safe? Hundreds of thousands? Like where? Maybe 3 got on an airship. You can't be serious. 8:30 - Yes they do. Eren wanted to do this. You also kinda glossed over the millions of innocent lives being lost. Won't look for the timestamp, it was earlier. Hate wasn't gonna be destroyed with the rest of the world either. Plenty of people killed eachother inside the walls, all killing everyone does is limit the amount of ppl taking part in a conflict. (Kinda like what the Japanese milf said to Folch)
Eren, floch and yeagerist are absolutely right did anybody else was able to come up with any other ideas ?? So nobody got any right to say he's wrong he's doing whatever he can to protect his country atleast he isn't killing his own ppl by joining enemies like some clowns
Thats like backing up germany during ww2 genocide. Genocide Is wrong and what eren going to do Is even killing innocents who did nothing wrong like him when he was wrong. So he Is no different than a psychopath and his enemies
@murdertheextrovert genocide - the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group. The last time I chaked Germany in ww2 was involved with a genocide.
But a lot of people in Paradis were killed by the rumbling. Peoples houses were destroyed, the top government officials were still titans and Eren didn’t even bother turning them back, Connie’s mother is still a titan. To me it seems like Eren just wants revenge and not actually to protect his people.
He was never doing it for his country, he just wanted freedom for himself. Also the Yeagerists killed their own people first by turning them into titans, and execution many others outside of that. At least the alliance tries to stop genocide unlike them.
I don’t think people are comprehending that Eldia is facing a world of Nazis, it’s not gonna be as simple as asking them nicely to stop. I don’t think Paradis even knows the history of Nazis, Eren however knows how Nazis are. Paradis has to take nuclear action if they want to survive.
Have you even read properly. He was only going to kill 80% to give time for his friends not to face genocide. He didn't cared a thing about paradise. He is a Joker, an utter failure. He failed to save paradise from facing genocide, he failed to bring peace in world.
I spent my adolescence and my adulthood watching this show. This cast of characters feels closer to my heart than any other. I love Eren, Mikasa, Armin, Levi, Hange, Jean, Connie, Sasha. Yet I never felt like the Rumbling was justified. I get why Eren would choose to do this, but I can't justify it in my mind. (Still, I'm excited as hell to see it animated)
to be honest if i was in Eden's condition, I guess I would also have committed genocide without any regrets cuz the same happened to eren's family, people of shiganshina who were all innocent cuz their memories were erased but still they had to suffer from their ancestors mistake i think it's eren's best idea and i support it with my heart shinzou sasagaeyo
They did not support the Euthanazia plan, they supported a partial rumbling, which would have used only the outer wall's titans from Shingashina, which are thousands, enough to destroy the coalition fleet and maybe damage Marley's military. That would have been enough for the people outside Paradise to realize they have to really deal with consequences, and they would have left Paradise alone. However, that would have meant that Historia and her future children have to cannibalize each other to inherit a titan in order to start a new rumbling if necessary in the future. Or one of them simply had to be turned a mindless titan, they seemingly don't age. That is not a good option, but it was supportable, survival for the least amount of suffering. Objectively, the rumbling is just as wrong as it was for the Marleyans to hate Eldians (along with everyone else), use titans for war and set titans on Paradise. Or it was just as wrong for the old Eldian Empire to take over the whorld, probably having the same ideologies, treaetment and tools they used on their opponents the Marleyans adopted later. Everybody finds their valid reasons to commit horrible things, but none of them are right, and they usually indiscriminately hurt innoncent people. But the people don't care, for there is an ancient evil race that destroyed everything in the past, and there is a hostile world that hates everything in you and made you suffer. People don't care about differences. Of course, real people don't care about morally right or philosophically right decisions when they are so deeply affected. The Yaegerists can obviously accept that someone ended their suffering, whatever was the cost (they might feel bad, but it's strangers vs their loved ones), while the people knowing actual persons from the outside world obviously can't accept that their death might bring a new era of peace. These people might make morally bad decisions, but they are all understandable- basically, the alliance fights for humanity, the yaegerists fight for humanity, they just have different opinions about what is humanity.
Easy he becomes the villain when he refused to allow historia to become a Titan and all her children to eat each other on top of the scouts and military weren’t doing anything they let time go which allowed the Marley government to have willy declare war if eren wasn’t their eldia would be done
As I interpreted it the reason they protected eren was partly because armin slightly convincing them that he was going to do the partial rumbling instead of zekes plan, but otherwise as fas as they knew zeke and eren would of made the enemy forces leave by force anyway once there plan is complete so they can keep eldians safe until they die out. Basically eren was there only option for long term safety either way
Sadly, the rumbling was the only solution. At the end of the day the future generations are the ones that are suffering for a new war because the cycle of hate never ends, now the cycle of war and hate continues and Eren is the new Ymir and everything repeats again. Eren could have ended the cycle and maybe bring peace finally. But who kwons ¯ \ _ (ツ) _ / ¯, I only know that the alliance are clowns lmao.
That whole thing with the euthanasia was not correct: Eren’s friends didn’t want to be euthanized at all. In fact they were against it so much that they had to be locked up. It was only when Armin convinced them that eren wasn’t actually with Zeke that they fought Reiner, Pieck and Marley to help eren get to Zeke because they believed that eren would just rumble the global alliance and not let Zeke euthanize them It was only after they realized eren would exterminate all life outside of paradis that they would try to stop eren because they didn’t want to have all people outside paradis be destroyed
I am sure there was no other options Armin and his friends couldn't convince their comrades from the jeagerists to forget their hate of the outside world so why would the outside world be convinced to forget their hate toward the eldians even if the rumbling stopped? The alliance aren't morally right, they are simply choosing which genocide to support and which genocide to oppose simply based on the number of casualties so it's a messed up situation in every way
Another factor is time overcoming the propaganda that was placed on people's heads is not easy to remove it'll take years and years of convincing and actions to prove that they are of not threat to the world by the time they are understood Eren is dead, Zeke is dead or Marley had already attacked and the act convincing the world has not happened.
@@marc9242 yup If only we had time (even though it isn't fair toward the people that would still be oppressed until the results of all that time comes into fruition)
the alliance aren't planning on just letting the world genocide Paradis, they're pursuing the small hope of a peaceful resolution. And i mean... people loved the Tybur's for going against the evil eldian empire and treated them as royalty, going by the AoT universe's logic, going against Eren is the best choice possible in terms of peaceful resolution.
@@galarstar052 they were heroes for the jeagerists too! And they still went against them the moment their goals strayed away from each other. If they couldn't "peace talk" the jeagerists (their own people, the comrades that look up to them and fought with them) to stop the rumbling how would they peace talk the world from doing an equivalent to the rumbling upon the island?? It's simply an unrealistic choice and they did not only choose it for themselves but for the entire island as well dooming them in the process.
@@mohamedelhediissa289 i assume you read the manga based on your tone but ima give you a spoiler warning just in case: Specifically, i was mainly talking in the context of the ending how them saving the world from Eldian Tyranny is literally the exact same scenario that got the Tybur's worldwide recognition and admiration. In that scenario "peace talking" would be entirely feasible... and that's exactly how it DOES go. But for an option with a 0% genocide rate, i saw someone suggest on reddit a plan that involved killing off wall titans one by one as a show of good faith (not all at once, obviously) using them as a bargaining cheap to initiate those peace talks. I can try and find it for you if you want, it's a really well thought out plan. With enough time they presumably could have thought of something similar, although obviously it's not without risks and they're on limited time.
I feel like isayama was trying to show us how evil and complicated war is. Not only do innocent people get put in the cross fire. So does the whole world.
The problem is that people take his actions' motivations to be something noble when it's not; not at its core. It was a selfish act with a selfish motivation. To justify it misses the point of the story. Edit for the people that don't get it: it's a spoiler, the true motivation for Eren's actions which gets revealed later on in the series. It's inherently selfish and not really about what everyone assumes it to be.
@BenMedia Lol Erens life is literally just a Hitler life story. They are both men who angry they live in a country left into ruin and they turn into madmen who want to commit genocide to make the world the way they want to. I do not think it is a coincidence that the universe is revolves around German-like countries and Marley is living around the 30s/40s. And what notorious German in the 30s/40s is declared an enemy to the world in real-life just like Eren was? And it upsets me that Floch is blatantly the most Nazi like character and I’m baffled people do not see it.
@BenMedia The whole point of the story is both Marley and Eldian governments have been ruled by bad people. Are you really denying that King Fritz was not a cruel tyrant who ruled over Eldia and oppressed Marleyeans and used Ymir as her slave? The irony that Paradis has been fighting Titans only to realize the walls that protected them are Titan themselves the entire time showing that what “kept them safe” is in fact their enemy. People think Eren “keeps Eldia safe” but he’s in fact a Titan attacking humanity himself. Eren was praised in making Paradis strong again by most Eldians - at first - just like Hitler was praised to making Germany strong again by most Germans at first Many Germans blames wealthy Jewish officials for enabling the Treatyof Versailles for keeping Germany in ruin and oppression from other countries. Hitler was not the only person to believe it - many German citizens did. The Weimar Republic (which had many wealthy Jews thrived in) the rise of Zionism and propaganda for Jews responsible for Germany’s lost didn’t help them think it was not trying to take the country. Nazi supports think the Holocaust was necessary in order to stop other people and Jews from their plans in destroying Germany the same way Eren thinks the rumbling was necessary to stop Marleyeans and. And the transition from the Weimar republic to Nazis is just like the transition from the Survey corp to the Yeagarists. And now we have Yeagarists treating Survey corp like traitors like Nazis treated people in Weimar republic like traitors. Eren easily could’ve threatened the world not the mess with Paradis the moment he received the founding Titan power- cause they could not do anything to stop him anyway. He could’ve had Armin and the survey corp negotiate with Marley to free the Eldians living in Marley and deflate this “devil” propaganda. He could’ve use Yelena (who is Marleayean) and Onyankopon (from another country) to be liaisons to show other countries outside Paradis are willing to support Eldians. Even Onyankopon tells Floch that he came to help Eldia and now they are trying to kill his own people in return showing Jeagarists are just as terrible as Marley government. Eren could’ve used them to show there are people in other countries willing to help the pain Eldia has been in and he still had 4 years to do so. Marley has a devil propaganda with Ymir as Eldia has a god propaganda belief with Ymir- when both sides are wrong and deceived by their governments to have that black and white thinking. Eldia was deceived by Karl Fritz who took away Eldia memories to forget the crimes against humanity eldia done under Fritz’s bloodline.
@BenMedia Eren doesn’t care about Paradis though he is just a madman obsessed with freedom. Both and anime and manga have a a shot of Eren after his first Titan transformation subtly looking at us the audience saying “I will kill you all” and Armin notice him saying it to himself. It wasn’t being figurative in the statement like it seemed to be it was literally telling Eren was going to kill everyone for his goals if he had a chance to. If Eren really cared about Eldians why did he allowed survey corp to turn into Titians and eat Eldian civilians and why trample over Liberio Eldians? Cause it’s not about helping Eldians it’s about his “freedom”. Again German Nazi supporters had the same mentality that it was them against the rest of the world that hated them after WW1 even though they oppressed Germany as well as other countries. Hitler could’ve created better realation with people responsible for the Treaty of Versailles when he gained power but he didn’t as Eren could’ve created better relations when he gained more Titan power but he didn’t. Hitler is just a madman obsessed with a master race and Eren is a madman obsessed with freedom. Their own followers are blind to see because of their too biased and too prejudiced in their own political climates. Even if Eren did not decide to be a “devil” Marley wasn’t going to destroy Paradis cause the survey corp already was gaining allies outside their countries. It is basically a WW2 that was happening anyway. Eren didn’t prevent it he only decides to be the heart of it like Hitler decided to be the heart of it. The world war became with Hitler invading Poland like Eren invades Marley. There was no limit to Eren’s own desire for freedom like there was no limit for Hitler’s desire for building his empire. Eren was still acted like a child notion. He was literally his kid form when destroying Marley symbolizing Eren figuratively still thinks like a kid about his goal.
@BenMedia The only reason I am saying this Hitler comparison is because Attack on Titian is intentionally set in German society and is around the 30s. Isayama did not do this without any thematic meaning and parallelism of what happened in real life. Both Marley AND Eldia reflect the nature of the Nazis. You are the one with black and white thinking of you think it is just for Marley. Im pretty sure Hitler told his citizens to desire to help them by invading other countries but doesn’t change the fact he’s screwing and oppressing his own citizens anyway as well. Marley is how Nazis are externally as Paradis is how Nazis internally are. Zeke had an abusive father under Grisha like Hitler did. Eren had a civil servant father under Grisha like Hitler did. Zeke is externally like how Hitler’s enemies see him as Eren is internally like Hitler’s enemies see him. Zeke is internally like how Hitler’s allies see him as Eren is externally how Hitler’s allies see him. Mind you Hitler legit both a euthanasia plan (Aktion T4) and a genocide plan (Holocaust). You seriously cannot ignore how similar this is. Even without the Hitler comparison: Zeke is internally like Grisha in Marley as Eren externally like Grisha in Paradis. Zeke is externally like Grisha in Paradis as Eren is internally like Grisha in Marley. Eren had a chance to negotiate with Marley once he showed the truth about Grisha to Zeke. If Eren truly supported and cared for Zeke like a brother he could’ve convinced him to let go of the euthanasia plan and use their Titan power to make an ultimatum with Marley. However Eren only pushed Zeke into hating him and to continue the euthanasia plan without him. It’s really a edgelord notion that “I have to be bad to do good” but whatever you are the one justifying genocide not me.
@BenMedia Yeah it is edgelord if I hear someone justifying genocide on the internet lol The whole point of the series is character realizing that what they are fighting is not black and white and that they have enemies on your own “side”. Nobody ever forgets a genocide no matter how many you kill People will remember and use it against you in the future. Eren’s allies surviving to know it is the epitome of this point. And Titan power or no Titan power, Marley or no Marley, Eldians would eventually fight each other if they were the only people in the world which is what Hizuru basically says to Floch and he ignores it. Eren literally cries like a man child to Armin in the paths because he is a man childish goal to let go of his childish version of freedom he held onto. It is intentional that Eren becomes more of a villian throughout the series as Marley becomes less of a villian as the series goes on. Imagine if someone sociopath had a trigger to ignite the majority of nukes in the world all to himself. How is it wise for other countries to nuke the country of the guy with the ultimate nuclear launch trigger is from? It really is not. It is just like this scenario on how I doubt Marley do nothing considering all the titan power Eren had.
Eren was right and that's the tragic part. He and Karl Fritz before him both ultimately decided to give peace a shot, and in both cases it did NOT happen.
Evil comes from within not from outside. Jesus Christ, teaches us to how to love each other, how to be selflesss and put others first. If we all followed Christ, there would be no war, we’d live in peace and harmony.
That last point is the most important. He could use the founding titan's power without destroying the world. He could just have the wall titans surrounded Marley and form the wall around them. I believe he didn't want any alternatives just because he would be torturing Historia and her descendants. Eren is the only character to ever go through with choosing his friends over the world
The thing thats great in aot is how everytging is up in the air and up to interpetation. Like "is this character in the right?" "Was this the only way?"etc etc
the greatest stories ever told, are the ones where humans must put aside differences to "save the world". regardless of the ending I do not know as im anime only ....... eren I believe must become the true devil so the world can erase the history of the titans and let the world remember a new "devil" that will be beaten.
Heroes Villains They are the same in some capacity Tragic past Villains want the world suffer like they did Heroes want the world not to suffer like they did So you can see. Eren is not really a hero. Not really a villain. He's just like us after all.
If 10 people are out to kill me and I find a weapon that can get rid of all of them. I'M GETTING RID OF THEM EVERY TIME. They could've easily choose that killing is senseless.
Personally I think that from Eren's perspective there was no other choice but to activate the Rumbling. From his point of view the Marlians said time and again that they were gonna wipe out Paradis regardless. No talking, no negotiating, no nothing. It was gonna be a complete and utter slaughtering of Paradis without them knowing why. Not only that but it was said several times that in other places besides Marley that the Eldians were treated way worse than what we even saw. Now people can say "well that's just what they told you" but that argument doesn't hold up. The characters that said that have no reason to lie about it. So all we can do is take them at face value. The whole world was out to get the Eldians so while I agree that straight up genocide isn't the answer to the problem I'd ask people what their solution would be. Eren saw the future and saw what would happen. It's only natural that he would react the way he did. He's seen the way the outside world treats his people. So wiping out everybody else before that can happen to said people seems to be a reasonable response given his position and what he knows
I think the true villain of Attack on Titan is just the horrors of war, what Eren is doing is totally abhorrent and wrong, but he's just an inevitable consequence of the world around him. And it's not just Eren, one of the biggest themes in Attack on Titan is war and propaganda turning people into devils and making them do horrible things. Eren, Mikasa, Armin, Reiner, Bertholt, Annie, Erwin and so many more, they've all had to commit atrocious acts for what they see as a greater good.
Yeah, it's honestly a snowball of all the BS that was never stopped in the past, like Karl not pushing for a better peace or Ymir not stopping King Fritz and working for him
Honestly the true villain was marley bc they could had just let eldia keep the founder instead of desperately trying to obtain it by turning Eldians into titans and sending them to paradis to kill more eldians
Eren is doing exactly what Marley and the rest of the world was going to do to Paradis which is commit genocide for survival of his people. Just because more people have to die doesn't make him evil. It's a them or us situation.
@@LeanBeyondMeasure
Yeah, but Eren's Genocide causes for more repercussions for the planet at large.
Paradis dies? Sure, 2% of the population maybe and far less Titans. But everyone else? The world's forests and jungles are screwed, the mountain tops also devastated, wildlife annihilated, atmosphere filled with large portions of steam, which will bring about warmer weather and storms.
Hell, not all Nations even agreed with Willy, some didn't want anything to do with the Island, and Paradis had allies like Hizuru (Eldian Empire's only Ally, actually).
So while I understand why Eren's doing what he's doing, he's definitely causing more problems for the planet at large than the Marleyans would've, which is something to take note of.
@@thalmoragent9344 Haven't you ever heard of Noah's Ark story? Also the Earth will always return to homeostasis.
Eren gave his people another chance in life…although he achieved this through the worst means necessary but a genocide was in the future for the people on the island. So in other words it was either genocide or genocide.
Exactly. It's either Paradis be massacre or the world be massacre, unless you sacrifice Historia.
thats dumb af. they should of chose the third option. *SPOILERS*
genocide.
For the dumbest people on this planet who think erens genocide is wrong you are dumb. Or haven't seen the whole anime. Marley aka the "humans" literally experimented on the paradise people's blood and literally turned them into titans sent them over the wall to Paradis to eat there own people........................... not only that humans seem to HATEEEEE THE paradise people or they like to call them literally "devils" they wear a badge on there shoulders to identify themselves, they are put into concentration camps in Marley just like the nazi did in ww2 with the jews ....... you are DUMB If you think erens genocide plan is evil. It's survival of the fittest now . Because let me tell you when other cities see what eren can do .... what do you think they gonna do ? They gonna forgive and forget ? They gonna cower ? NO THEY GONNA BUILD FKING NUKES AND WIPE OUT THE ISLAND
@@user-io2dm1uh9w Exactly, you just proved it's not "kill everyone inside the walls or kill everyone outside the walls".
@@secondeye1574 ? Maybe not everyone, but mass murder outside or inside the wall is certain.
At the end of the day, morality not a luxury you can afford when faced with an existential crisis.
When your country and people are faced with extinction backed by a global coalition, you throw morality out the window and do what is necessary to protect you and your own.
Facts, morality is something that completely goes out of the window in a world like AOTs. What Eren did was completely justifiable. It was either he becomes a villain and commits genocide or he sees his home, friends and family become victims of genocide. At the end he chose his friends, family etc over everyone else which any normal human would.
This. Its the exact same thing in BSG.
You are in a situation where the entire world (or cylons) goal is to eradicate you from earth.
Morals have no place here. Its survival or die.
So many people sitting on their L shaped couch want to pretend to be the arbiters of morality with their top down godlike view. But if you are the one in that situation, you don't get that luxury.
@@vihan3423and let’s not forget they started the war Eren was the first one to oppose the Rumbling and looked for any other option but the moment he saw his comrades and his people being gunned down he new they had no chance of winning against that kinda technology so he had two options either let his people go to war and get decimated but atleast they’d go down fighting or take the full weight of the worlds hatred himself cause nothing brings a world together like a common enemy. Is Genocide wrong yes but i sure don’t blame him cause it was either watch his family get destroyed. Buy some time and then get destroyed later or destroy them before they even have the chance.
The reason why they protected him is because they believed in him enough to believe that he would betray zeke and that he was always on their side the whole time, like Armin theorized.
They thought he wanted to use the founding titans power to deatroy all titans and the allied forces in Marley, they believed he was going to betray zeke and never thought he would activate the true rumbling and commit genocide.
Exactly idk what he was talking about
From what I understand is that Armin was expecting some wall titans to awaken but not all of them
Wrong Armin thought he would crush them outside worlds army partially enough to sign a treaty. But that treaty wouldn’t work and Eren wants to be free. The outside world will have time to develop a counterattack against the rumbling and eventually invade it anyway. Why? Because resources. Yes gaining the founding titan is important but the resources in paradis is just as important for marleys expansion as a power.
@@Vortex_ICEcold Nowhere is this said.
@@HANWIND100 yea it is even hizura wanted their resources
Naturally if you're a Paradis civilian or soldier, you would have support Eren because its either kill or be killed. As an audience, sure we can easily say genocide is bad.
It’s a genocide eitheir way. The genocide of the scapegoats or the rest of the world. No getting out it’s eitheir one or the other. I hate it when people villianify the yeagerists like their physco facists and not like they are human beings being blamed for something they didn’t do and they are fighting for their right to live.
Is it really? 🤔
@@MG007. yes. Isayama wrote it that way. Did he HAVE to write in the fact that it’s possible to blood test Eldians? No. Did he have to add in the fact that Hizaru is only helping Paradise for the money and won’t introduce it to the rest of the world. Did he HAVE to add in the fact that the world cheered for the slaughter of paradise? No.
The people living near the walls would beg to differ, but they were killed.
The soldiers poisoned by Yeagerist would do the same, but they were killed.
The Paradisians who oppose the genocide can't do anything because they can't simply do anything against titans, and probably if they voice their concerns too loud they will be killed, along their families, by their new regime.
So, I guess in that sort of way, in order to not be killed by their new fascist government, they have to "support" the rumbling.
@@tarnw3301 Oh. Oh okay. Yeah I want you to imagine Faye getting ripped apart eaten by dogs, I want you to imagine zeke and pieck Titanizing the people of radiko ( idk how to spell it village ), I want you to imagine being a parent of a scout and having them be ripped apart and eaten, I want you imagine the walls getting torn down and a famine happening, I want you to imagine haven your freedom taken away for sins you didn’t even commit.
Oh wait you don’t have to BECAUSE IT ACTUALLY HAPPENED. Why in the F@#$ would ANYBODY on paradise want to save the people who are about the kill them and their families. The effing SCAPEGOATS. Guilt is one thing but you think they are gonna lie down and be like “I’m okay with saving a bunch of sadistic nations who united against me for nothing I did. Who are also might turn each other given the fact that technology overpowers titans and the other countries kinda of disliked Marley which is why they were desperate to get the founding titan in the first place thus keep the other countries beneath their booth and kill all Eldians over there too because titans would be useless. Yeah totally sorry kids you gotta die so a bunch of racists can live.”
The World: Declares War on Paradis with everyone else hating Eldians and wanting to see them all die.
Eren: I just want to defend my home and friends from everyone, literally everyone in this world trying to kill us.
Characters: nah fam, we gotta die.
Seriously though, Marley did call for war first. Do you think Paradis can last against the might of the world? No, no they can't. Thus that's why Eren activated the rumbling. The World is basically wanting to kill all Eldians.
Eren is begging Hange for help and wanting her to tell him a plan. However, there's no time to make one and thus why it is sloppy and why many oppose on the plan. Though it's a head scratcher when the world wants you dead and you have no favors to give to them.
It'd be different if there was time or other solutions but there isn't and Marley caused tensions to spark. Remember, Marley declared war first. Thus setting events into motion.
If Marley hadn't said anything and continued to invent new weapons to beat the world in a arm's race. Then Eren would not have activated the rumbling. Thus proving them wrong. They were proven right because they themselves declared war first.
I validate 100%.
Facts
Declaration of war or not, Eren would've probably used the rumbling anyway, simply because that's what he wanted. I don't want to go deeper because idk if you're a manga reader, but chapter 131 explains the situation quite well.
Then pound Marley into the dust. Marley isn't the entire world.
That's like annihilating the entire rest of the world because Germany was doing a genocide in WW2. Ridiculous.
@@Gangerworld it literally was the entire world. It even showed us in the first set of episodes. How other nations view people from Paradis. Udo, The Kid apart of The Warrior Unit was treating an enemy combatant and the man was telling Udo. That he was a filthy devil and that he rather die then be tainted by the devils.
It's not just Marley, it's everyone. Tybur was essentially declaring war on paradis on behalf of the world. There's a reason so many important officials were there, why press was at the location.
The short answer is yes. Everyone forgets that when the rumbling is first brought up Eren was the first to try to avoid a rumbling at all costs even though he has seen it in the future. The way the story is written there is no other alternative unless he excepts his own and every Edinan's death. Is it right to just accept the death of your entire people? Zeke thought it was Eren didn't think so. I wouldn't either. You can speculate about an infinite ways to not do a rumbling but thats not the point. Because thats not the way the story is written.
We don’t know the specifics on what Eren saw so we don’t know if he exactly saw him doing the rumbling. He only saw what was seen in Grisha’s memories. On top of that Eren doesn’t really accepts any compromises on any plan as shown with Zeke’s original proposal. Armin and the others came up with a plan of doing the rumbling on a smaller scale which would buy them more time and give them an upper-hand against the world. Armin literally had a plan that could’ve work practically. Sure it isn’t definitive nor perfect but it’s definitely provides a way to a better plan or situation.
The rumbling was never used as a last resort, Eren was very fast and unhesitatingly uses it. Conflict between the nations didn’t even begin and yet Eren was already planning on getting himself to Zeke so that they could start the rumbling.
If the rumbling was truely a last resort it would’ve been used when there has had been a substantial lost of life on Paradis and the threat of extermination of their entire race came to be a big possibility.
No one in history has ever decided to nuke an entire country just because one city was attacked. It would’ve been the easiest and laziest way to win a war as it would neglect the lives of the many casualties caused by its destruction.
@@BigJMC have you read the manga?
@@BigJMC said it perfectly
@@BigJMC but that’s erens whole thing. He’ll take others freedom before they have a chance to take his like he said. Your right we don’t know exactly what he saw in the vision but it’s not impossible that he knew for sure Marley and the rest of the world would come for them. Even if he hadn’t seen that in the vision the situation was moving towards that happening anyway and technically eren did wait till war was officially declared on paradis before he began his assault. And you said the rumbling should’ve been used only when many lives had been lost to eldia. But isn’t that exactly what happened when Marley came to paradise to retaliate? Did you not see the bodies that were piling up on paradis since they didn’t expect Marley to retaliate so quickly? That’s the exact last resort condition you explained and then the rumbling followed as you said should happen.
you have a great point
The world wanted war against Eren
The world wanted Genocide
The world got exactly what they wanted
when history repeats itself....
@@axios7603 and History do repeat itself..why?? thats the nature of human being
Ramzi certainly didn't want war against Eren, nor genocide. Not the cliff baby either.
@@galarstar052 it’s unfortunate that Ramzi and the cliff baby have world leaders that desired war. World leaders that called for Genocide. Eren is fighting this war with the rules that the world put on the table
@@galarstar052 He will when he grows up
I liked the joke, “The Rambling” 😂 clever
i contemplated putting it into the title
RAMBLING! RAMBLING! IT’S COMING! RAMBLING! RAMBLING!
@@ieatbananaswiththepeel funny😐
"Doing what he thought was right, until it wasn't" I felt that.
Eren’s friends didn’t know about the Euthanasia plan until Yalena revealed the plan while they were in prison. What they thought Eren was going to do was to do the rumbling on a smaller scale against the global alliance’s military, not against the entire world. That’s why Armin was advocating for Eren after the prison scene and telling everyone that Eren wouldn’t go through with the Euthanasia plan because it wasn’t like him to do so.
Also what Eren is doing is proving Marley correct in their assumptions about Paradis and their threat to the World which has complicated the matter even more. On top of that Marley was pressured into getting the founder because of the growing tensions and pressure of the world on Marley as they were at the edge of conflict with other nations as well as Eldian restorationist trying to get their hands on the founder. The only thing that was stopping other nations from attacking Marley was the Titan powers that Marley held but even the age of titans was coming to an end thus they needed the founder’s power for more control and influence over the world.
It can be argued that Marley brought this upon themselves but the same can be applied to Paradis and the destruction of wall Maria as Marley and the rest of the world was oppressed by the Eldian Empire for 2000 years.
The present people of paradis had nothing to do with what their ancestors did and no memory of it. All marley had to do was leave em alone. They brought it on themselves
@@DJsEDG Something you and many others forget is that Marley did not know that the people of Paradis had their memories erased. They also did not know of the vow renouncing war. The only people who knew were the Royal family, the leaders in the walls who got overthrown in season 3, and the Tyber family. So for all Marley knew the people of the walls still held resentment for them and the founder could unleash the rumbling at any time. It wasn't until Tyber's speech right before Eren's slaughtering of innocent people did the people outside the walls find out the truth.
@@Adum Still doesn't change the fact that they are the one's who started all of this because of their greed for power.
@@ninoarieldiocampo3939 no, the eldians oppressed marlyans for 2000 years first
@@ninoarieldiocampo3939 plus the fact that the king could activate the rumbling and kill everyone at anytime.
This is the perfect example of “f*ck around and find out"
Out of the million of things eren could use his god like power on why use it on the rumbling? Simple, eren wanted to wipe everything away. However, i believe eren actually never wanted to kill anyone. Eren has always been a guy to strive for freedom. To live without limitations or shackles removing his free will. And able to do any thing for that freedom. And in Armins book, this is what he saw. This is why he was so disappointed when he found out what actually was outside the walls. A world that wouldn’t ever let him be free due to his race. A world where he couldn’t ever be free. This is why when hes apologizing to ramzi he is constantly telling him sorry. He feels bad having to kill ppl but at the end of the day if haves to kill them in order for him to be free then he will.
Truly well said, my friend. He never really wanted to kill or hurt anyone, but the world led him down and forced him to follow such a path, cause if he don't his nation would be destroyed.
"All I ever wanted to do was save your life, I never wanted to grab a knife". Hits me hard.
@@_joesunil_23 Was gonna say the lyrics to op 7 are literally Eren’s feelings.
He's a zombie that needs to put down now, eren died When gabi shot his head off
@@_joesunil_23 he literally killed people as a child, yes they killed Mikasa's parents but the world DID NOT tell him to do that. Eren is violent by nature, not a bad person, but you can't tell me he doesn't want to hurt anyone.
@@Tanandrum he has the mental capability to do anything such as kill people or cut off his own limbs, but his killing to him has purpose. I believe part of him just wanted to flatten the world because it was so cruel and freedom couldn’t ever be achieved, all whilst giving a future for his group.
No matter who’s right in this video, I’m still on Eren’s side 100%
Just imagine the little island of Madagascar has 1 million giant titans that come out of the ground for rumbling
Same
@@comradericefarmerhao2269 just imagine Madagascar did the same thing in past to another country
@kakashi kage just imagined the titan attack your state your home,your family eat them alive in front of you
For "greater good"
Hitler would be proud of you
If Eren is not a Villain, than Thanos is not a Villain either. Regardless of their motives. It’s the action that matters more than the motive. Exterminating 80% of the World using the Founder’s Power is no different from wiping out half of Life with the Infinity Gauntlet.
true, i've never viewed thanos as a villain but he's 100 percent portrayed as such.
But, the difference is.. Thanos is not under a threat. Whether he wipe out half of living being or not,he is already free.The whole universe doesn't even making an alliance to wipe out Thanos and his people. Thanos is Insane to think wiping out half of living being would be better for the whole universe. Meanwhile.., If Eren don't do the Rumbling, Marley and other nations would commit genocide against Eldians. Even his method is too extreme, he thinks It's the only way to ensure the survival of Paradisian. For Eren, it's either them or us .
Thanos doesn’t have anyone threatening and justifies his actions by thinking what he is doing is for the betterment of society but it isn’t, Eren knows what he is doing is wrong and a terrible thing to do but he has no other choice. So yeah they are different and by your logic if the action is all that matter than for example you protecting yourself from someone trying to do you harm is the same as murdering someone for no reason which is a very chaotic mindset to have
Thanos isn't restricted by an immediate threat/lack of time. Murder is acceptable under self defense which the Rumbling technically is
Can't compare them
Eren is too complex to be compared with thanos
Do you think there's a solution to Eldian's slaughter without murder? I see people saying the rumbling was too far, but realistically, there is no other option that would stop it.
Yea there never is. Marley and the rest of the world did the right thing when they killed eldians and segregated them after the crumble of the eldian empire. It was too dangerous right? Proof is that there have always been attempts to reestablish the eldian empire. So nobody ever did anything wrong
Are you a manga reader?
nah, team zeke all the way personally
6 billion people and children dead
Armin already provided the solution, A small scale rumbling against the global alliance’s military which would’ve lead to the surrender of the country or even the occupation of the country by Paradis but Eren didn’t even try to do that, all he did was make a few diplomatic proposals and attempts a relationship and then just gave up and decided to kill everyone outside the walls because he couldn’t be bothered with actually dealing with the fundamental problems that caused the war and hatred against Eldia.
It’s been demonstration that Eldians can definitely fit into modern society, even progressive ideas were starting to form with Magath having doubts about his action and being concerned with the mass death of Eldians on the island in the conversation with Willy. Falco understands the war against Eldia and the world and understands the problems in society. Gabi was able to change and come to an understanding of the people on Paradis. A lot of warriors work with high ranking officials especially Zeke. The Marleyan guards cared for the warrior candidates and put their life on the line to protect Gabi. These are changes that has been happening and the treatment of Eldians has improved a lot and was a lot better compared to Grisha’s generation.
If you poke a beehive, don’t be surprised when you get stung. Floch is right, the rumblings gotta happen. You all will understand soon.
bruh
fax
Read the manga, still against it lmao
@@LUUUUU8 read the manga and lol we both didn’t get what we want. Unless you’re one of those weirdos that actually think the ending is good.
@@LeBillionn while I agree The Ending wasn't The Best at the same Time it's message was consistent with The Story
AKA War is inevitable because even after Eren wiped out 80% of The World a Hundred Years or so later that 20ish% came back and destroyed most of Pardis Island and most of its People
But guess what happened when they didn't Kill ALL of Pardis Island's People?
A Girl found a Tree very similar to The Tree that gave Yimir her Powers and so presumably this New Girl will become The New Founder and might go out for Revenge against The World
So like I said The Ending isn't The Best but it is at least consistent
Eren's actions are understandable but unjustifiable
@Daniel Jaramillo not eh, correct
@@Emmanuel44444 correct
correct. But thats also what makes him the most interesting character in the show.
@Daniel Jaramillo that doesnt have anything to do with what i said
@Daniel Jaramillo But that's the fad now, to prefer the extremely dark, tortured soul overlord characters. Morally perfect, isn't saying "Naw, let me know cause Armageddon." Thats normal to NOT want it. Everyone who agree with Eren can never give a solid argument. As much as the theme implies, if Eren succeeded, Eldia wouldn't do anything but infight, like they had, has and always will do.
i feel like eren has the right intentions, just unjustifiable actions
absolutely, but it's only because the world is forcing him to take these unjustifiable actions. His intentions are very much right.
His actions are very justifiable bru he was trapped in walls with no knolage of anything and thought that there was only monsters outside trying to kill them and then when he learned it was marleys fault and caused all that imo his actions are justifiable they declared war first too
@@yeye3398 so does that mean every innocent has to die as well, most of the worlds population did not want war but it was forced upon them by Marley, Marley definitely deserves it but the other nations don't, Eren is killing animals and people who had nothing to do with this like Ramzi, it seems pretty unjustifiable to me.
@@joetad1956 i aggre with u but there was no other way he could have done it without killing innocent people and when Marley did that to him it and what you said starts a whole new problem they’re fault for joining the alliance with Marley
@@yeye3398 hitler would be proud of you
Well, this comments section will certainly be civil and full of people debating in good faith
The lesson I can get from this is coming from Isayama's favorite visual novel, where AOT is based on, Muv Luv Alternative: "While our main objective may be same...with differing values comes differing methodologies"
I would've been Pro-Alliance if they offered some alternative to the Rumbling
Yeah like if they say rumbling is bad and not the solution, they cant provide other alternatives 😂
They did. They offered a partial rumbling to deter an attack while using the time it buys them to continue building diplomatic relations and show the world they aren't the same as King Fritz' empire that terrorized the world. You can argue the merits of that plan just fine, but the fact is that they did very much offer an alternative.
It is not Eren's right to decide the future of his entire nation, and the entire world, on his own whim. How arrogant is that? Who thinks a single person should get to dictate who lives and dies, and whose lives are worth saving or not? He left all of his friends completely in the dark as to his true intentions while saying it was all for them. Did he ever ask them if they'd want to continue living in a post-apocalyptic world? No, the fact is he selfishly chose what he thought was best for him.
If nothing else, that is why the audience should be anti-Rumbling at this point. Because one person shouldn't just get to decide to end it all.
Keep in mind, Eren is a great, well-written character. But that doesn't mean I agree with him as a person in the story.
Use the Colossal Titans to attack military bases or threaten enemy nations. Even one Colossal can stomp an entire nation. Another alternative would be to use the Colossals as a means of defense for the island of Paradis, rather than carrying out mass world genocide which could also halt the technological development of the island of Paradis
@@krishdutta5466 there isn't that many colossal Titan to guard all the countries. Also they are useless in front of bombers we've seen in the ending where paradis got eradicated in future
Same
The question is. What would you do if the world was coming to kill everyone you love and know? You'd be surprised who would choose Eren's way would you?
always jegerist!!! good comment, i am so sick from these comments it is wrong blabla, Koni killed his friend for what ?for peoples who even doesnt know personaly what a brutal he should be more evil the Eren, most importants in life is yours family then friends,
Exactly. Eren did it because Marley formed an alliance with all the world leaders through Willy Tybur. The whole WORLD was against Paradis. Either do the small-scale rumbling, wait 50 years, outside technology gets so advanced that Eldia gets wiped out, or kill all your enemies and end the cycle of hatred. That’s how Eren thought.
The question shouldn't be whether or not eren's actions are understandable, because everyone and their mother can completely understand the position Eren was in. But regardless, if even if said actions are understandable, it doesn't make it any more justified. You can't possibly try to justify the deaths of millions of people who posed no threat to Paradise and were not even racist against Eldians in the first place. I can understand why Eren did what he did, but at the end of the day, he's still just feeding into the cycle of hatred
@@LightDarkLX I mean to be fair, you can’t have a cycle of hatred if one side is wiped out. It would have caused more hatred because Eren gets stopped
@@LightDarkLX And they make it very clear that a vast majority of the world is racist towards eldians
In response to the unanswered question, no one said it better than Bertholdt. “No one is at fault here. This world was just a cruel.”
*Finally a video that uses constructive arguments for both sides while at the same time not taking either side and does not promote more stupid toxic behavior* 👍
Uh oh someone forgot something, they prtoected eren because they assumed he was doing rumbling demo version. They turned against him because he went full genocide
in time of eren return to paradis, the paradis military already consider to just fed eren to historia, because the inability of hange and armin to came up with a decisive plan to salvage the situation... even if eren do partial rumbling and just destroy world military and have 50 years to completely modernize and industrialize, it didnt change the outcome for paradis, simply by manpower, firepower and war experience. just like in the aditional pages paradis got decimated because them didnt have experience how to wage war with other human nation. just like 2nd battle for shigashina odm gear maybe good for killing titan, but not so much against well armed and professional soldier with machine gun in a airship. even if after the partial rumbling marley and the rest of the world agree to sign peace treaty, it doesnt matter. after the world regain its military might once more at the end of the day peace treaty will become just a piece of paper, and dont underestimate the determination during wartime just like how american not bent the knee after the pearl harbor attack. i can imagine similar situation happen in marley just like to US after pearl harbor attack, whole nation got more angry and vow to take revenge and young man sign for military service. even if just say all ship just got destroyed after partial rumbling, it doesnt matter marley just will keep build another one with territory extend whole continent marley must be a industrial powerhouse just like US. and with conflict including the whole world its simply too ez to replace initial loses to partial rumbling. and i cant see why the ship will engage the partial rumbling in the first place, if you guys read the manga, odiha citizen escape the rumbling by simply using boat. to be fair partial rumbling will destroy marley naval base or another military infrastructure but it can be rebuild or move somewhere else.
also partial rumbling will be a ineffective, slow and indecisive compare to full rumbling. with partial rumbling paradis will just give marley enough time to counter approaching collosal titan. i mean we already see anti titan artillery, its not that hard to put them in an airship with makeshift turret or simply put them in cargo bay and shot from safe distance. what terrifying with full rumbling is the opposite with partial rumbling its effective because after it completed the opposite side will be no more, quick with scale the whole world its nowhere will be safe to relocate military infrastructure and decisive because the marleyan military will not have time to figure it out how to kill single collosal titan
If we draw from real life history tho a partial rumbling that only takes out the military woulda been fine because think abt it after the rumbling the land is completely fucked beyond repair that means no expansion and and barley any modernization. If there was a partial rumbling it could have ended up just like the end of the war with Japan after we destroyed 2 of there city’s she stayed to help them rebuild and helped them come up with a government and now Japan and america have had a loving relationship with eachother ever since so not too hard to imagine that could happen here too
What Eren doing is similar to launching nuclear weapon to protect his own country. It's like your country invaded by many countries and will be genocided if you lose, the only way to win and protect your own country and people is the nuclear weapon.
@@ThePervySag3 Not really. US can still win a war without nuclear weapon, but Paradis sucks in conventional warfare, they cannot win a war to survive without nuclear weapon(rumbling).
@@ThePervySag3 its not pararel to what paradis facing prior to the rumbling, its more like what japan faced after "visit" from commander perry, if japan not bent the knee pretty sure japan will be another colony just like Philippine. Also its not complete pararel either no one want to kill every japanese in their homeisland during that time.
It was either genocide or the Marley having continuous control of titans and the world. Eren realized the world will never be free as long as titans exists. Marley already had the armor , female cart and beast titan. The beast titan has power to turn eldians into titans. This allowed Marley to be a very powerful empire and enslaved the eldians. They were able to go through a period of industrial revolution and innovate in technology compared to other civilizations. The marleyians feared the founding titan due to its ability to cause the rumbling and end the world so that is why they wanted to control it for themselves. Eren actions weren’t justified but his intentions to save paradise and end the cycle of death is right
What makes Eren such a compelling character for me is that he IS morally incorrect, he just doesn’t seem to care. He is devastated with the lives he had to sacrifice to go through with the rumbling, but he simply believes that there was no other way. His friends take priority over everyone for him, and he believes that only when the entire rest of the world is eradicated, that his friends will be freed from hate and oppression, and will achieve true freedom, which is what Eren has cared about most of all since he was a child.
Nah eren is correct
Yeah but I feel that morals are something that just goes out of the window in a world like AOTs
Was there anyone in the show who was morally correct?
No is not incorrect .....yes there was no other way....only way to stop cycle of revenge is one side genocide....
I think he does care but in his head he cant come up with another way
I think Attack on Titan has many great messages, mostly delivered as cautionary tales. The consequences of racism, classism, nationalism, imperialism, historical revision, government propaganda, lack of education, political warfare, terrorism, cultism, guilt by association, sins of the father, etc. Even when the story and pacing feel a bit off at times, I think it deals with mature concepts and themes that feel timeless, impactful and relevant.
It shows you the many types of forms that hatred and discrimination take, hoping that you won’t repeat the same mistakes that the characters of this world made. You can’t beat hatred and discrimination with more hatred and discrimination.
I think sins of the father is something that is just ridiculous.
The descendants should never be held responsible for actions they never did and decisions they didn't make.
Even the bible states that to blame the son for the fathers action and vice versa is actually a sin.
The moral of the final season is that we all are a villain to someone else’s story
The biggest problem with the rumbling, besides all the genocide, is that it doesn't actually solve the main problem, it doesn't stop the cycle of hatred.
As Erwin pointed out (in I believe season 2), as long as there are two or more people on the Earth there will always be conflict. (Paraphrasing)
The problem isn't any one group of people. As the Warriors & Eren found out, there are good & bad people on both sides (on all sides). And as we saw from Hitch's perspective, the people inside the walls are already divided & fighting amongst themselves.
The answer does not lay in defeating your enemies (and it certainly isn't genocide). The answer can be found with Gabi, with Sasha's dad, in learning to understand your enemy, to understand one another. Until, as a society, we learn how to do this, the cycle of hatred will always persist, regardless of the rumbling
In the immortal words of Marco, "What are you in such a rush for? We haven't even had a chance to talk this through."
Love this! Very true!
i feel like AOT honestly meant this, esp with the last chapter's follow ups. the rumbling wasnt the answer after all
@@Loki-us8zl Me too
Hopefully, with part three Isayama will have enough time to thoroughly make this point, because I believe it is the most important point of the series
By rumbling Eldia would've been protected from hardcore racial discrimination and cycle of hate for 2000 years, any civil war within the Island would not've been aggressive as wars in S1,2,3,4.
@@tatakaw i see your point, but i still do think thats not enough to justify indiscriminate genocide, esp towards countries that werent even involved in isolating and killing eldians. Plus, the rumbling just gave the world an even more solid reason to destroy eldia, esp if eren's intention was to only murder 3/4ths of it. The cycle of hate against eldians ended up repeating. Also the purpose of the rumbling was to buy eldia enough time to build a military and conveniently only to protect his loved ones (mikasa, armin, connie, historia, jean) and the quality of life theyll live. It was only to buy them enough time until theyve grown old and died. He didnt care batshit about what happened to eldia after. But lets say he did, and a full scale rumbling did happen, the civil wars would still be particularly intense given the collateral damage to property and life eldians experienced during the rumbling.I think isayama's writing is shaped by japan's pacifist stance after world war 2. His writing seems to be anti-war and conflict, despite the graphic and action packed sequences in the manga and anime. It never glorified death and destruction as something necessary or victorious.
Why did Eren go as far as trampling the world when simply Marley would be enough? Isn't using Marley destruction as an example to the show the world the consequence of attacking Paradis enough? Not to Eren, not when his lifespan reaching its end. He only has a few years left and when he dies, so is any protection he can provide his homeland. So he chose the most drastic measure that will ensure the best possible position for it after the rumbling end. There are much better options than genocide but those options is not available to a man with only 1 or 2 years left.
Eren did it because Marley formed an alliance with all the world leaders through Willy Tybur. The whole WORLD was against Paradis. Either wait 50 years, outside technology gets so advanced that Eldia gets wiped out, or kill everyone and end the cycle of hatred. That’s how Eren thought.
@@ErenYeager-oi6hu All involved parties are aware of that but a global genocide is a far too horrifying idea for anyone to go with. That's why they opted for an option that would not weight heavily on them. The partial rumbling plan, the euthanizing plan are attempts to solve the problem without causing an astronomical scale of death. But non of that is a definite solution. One option is the same as toss a nuke for diplomacy advantage, it leaves the fear and hatred intact if not stronger and a cold war would follow. As you said the cycle will continue and it will continue on a much larger scale without Eren in it. And Zeke plan won't work because the enemies of Paradis have other motives asides from the titan threat. They will not spare the Eldian on the island. For Eren, doing the rumbling is the only option to eliminate all the enemies of his homeland.
Willy Tybur declared war on Paradis, a war that the whole world seemingly agree with. As a soldier in a war, you fight for your faction to defeat the enemies.
@@EckhartLuthor 100% but as mentioned in the video. Eren realized the last time he did nothing and chose to trust that his comrades would come out on top, they all died. So he decided that he has to do it all himself and come up with his own plan etc. to keep them safe even though in his plan he could have easily gotten his friends killed *cough* Sasha! *cough*
@@ErenYeager-oi6hu Someone else would just take Marley's place if the Rumbling was wasted in destroying a nation. It literally took Eldians 4 years just to seal the walls while Marley launched an Attack on Eldia just a few weeks after their defeat in Liberio. Eldia just wouldn't survive
It’s not about who’s right….it’s about who’s left.
Oh and Hail King Floch 😅… there is definitely not an “overwhelming majority against Eren” on Paradis, just the Scouts from the 104th. Now there are people, like 99% of people (same in our world) that would feel sick that it has to be done, but in that world it really did come down to kill or be killed; that’s NOT a hard decision… Obv Yaegerists AND likely 99% of citizens of Paradis are for it.
Eren knows his friends will stop him, he could take away their Titan powers with the founder but he hasn’t. He wants the world (what’s left of it) to see the “Devils” of paradise as heroes. Eren is playing 4D chess
I would honestly lay down my life if it means I don't have to kill other human beings. Everyone says "There's no other way!" but I personally find standing by principles of goodwill to be more satisfying than continuing the cycle of hatred that Isayama so beautifully shows. (i.e. Gabi breaking it via her great development)
EDIT: I was pointing to not committing genocide. Obviously, it is easy for me to say this behind a computer screen. When the people we care about are in danger, it would probably be a different story.
in this case, standing by principles means continuing the cycle of hatred...
Then you'd let your family, friends and your people die for principle?
Life is cruel. A mantis eating a butterfly.
@@F3lipe-u8x He's trying to present himself as virtuous because it's easy behind a monitor but if push came to shove he would do what all humans do and protect their loved ones, or at least i hope he would, otherwise he's insane or brainwashed to an extreme degree. You can't go against human nature unless you're insane or brainwashed.
@@edwardirwin3478 It's more about not committing genocide. Obviously, I would fall to human nature when it came to people I love. There is no way you can stand by and watch bloodshed like that unfold.
if grisha got founding titan and got eaten by eren that means eren got the founding titan,eren will not gonna start the rumbling
I think armin had an idea of what eren wanted when he remembered what he said in season 3 when looking at the sea. He remembered eren saying what if we kill all the enemy over there. I think that’s what made armin believe he wasn’t with zekes plan
6:33 The rumbling doesn't affect Floch because he has seen first-hand the death of all his comrades, friends and his captain too. Floch was radicalised at that moment. He felt the guilt of surviving and felt like making something out of his life by supporting Eren finish Paradis' enemies. And unlike the rest of the Alliance he has the ability to think for himself ;P
>And unlike the rest of the Alliance he has the ability to think for himself
are you an idiot, he litteral kills a volennter for refusing to accept that his homeland got killed by the same people he helped.
Floch legit told the volennters "be our honoray slaves or die" Oynakpoon pointed out the hyporacy of the yeagerist during his would be final moments.
fuck if you read the manga, the yeagerist instal freedom through fucking tyranny even worse than the reiss.
Floch is the defenition of a nationalist, eren just felt backed into a cornor.
And if you think im using fancy words to make him look bad, im not his charcter was tramitaized to the point of wanting his eneimes to paint eldias soil red, and to restablish the eldian empire. And we all remeber how the first one ended, conquer everyone but be the maykers of ur own destruction. Kioymi was right, ending the world didnt change it, only made it smaller.
And erwins line of humans fighting till one or few remians happened with the empire, and guess what floch is trying to restablish
the island rumbling isnt the end-all be all. This empire will end exactly like malrey did when they inherited the empire, never got rid of the instutions, just put themselfs uptop and eldians at the bottem, but now eldia is taking back those intitutions that sparked hate. and god knows how that ends
how are the alliance not thinking for themselves? they're making the active choice to oppose Eren to do what's right, not just accepting that he's gonna genocide the world and letting him do it.
The scouts didn't support the euthanization plan, they didn't know about it until Yelena told them and a few minutes after that Paradis was under attack, so they fought to protect the Island mostly and because Armin convinced them that Eren wouldn't go with the Euthanization because it goes against his beliefs.
The scouts fought for eren in shiganshina, because they thought he will just do a small rumbling, taking out the military and then return paradis. They agreed with a small scale rumbling, thats why armin said "he's on our side!" when he only saw the wall going down in shiganshina. He only said that something is off when he saw Maria being down too.
Small scale rumbling make things worst my friend the world will ask more revenge......and again attack eldians
@@jasongavan8741 we know
There are indeed many layers to Eren's motivation, but
1) Scouts simply had no idea about Zeke's euthanasia plan. If you reread/rewatch flashbacks, you'll see that their original plan was to use a small portion of rumbling to partially destroy marlean forces and continue passing Founding titan across royal line for 50 years until some kind of peace agreement is done between Paradise and the world. In the very last episode we see that even eldia-sympathizers are rather ready to claim Paradise an existential enemy than to do something against eldian oppresion, so Eren realizes there is no other option.
2) Eren is a product of toxic environment, however he is also a product of his own actions. Remember that Carla was eaten by Dina because of Eren's command (as he needed Bertholdt to stay alive for the future). We can speculate about logic of timeloops and absence of causality here, but the rumbling was one and the only option for Eren because he has always been like this. He is all about freedom, and he can't stand the idea of Historia and her children replicate the fate of Ymir and her daughters.
3) As it was mentioned in the comments, Eren simply hated and despised everything about non-freedom of the outside world, so we get back to point 2.
4) As a machine that can't stop itself, Eren simply obeyed his fate and hoped that his friends will eventually stop him (his very last conversation with Armin in the final chapter). It's like "yeah rumbling is bad and stuff, but everything is messed up in my head and I can't stop it".
So in my opinion, it was simply "it's us or them" for Eren plus his own principles like ultimate yearning for freedom. In the end Eren seems like nihilistic Lelush-style villain, who unites everyone against him just to make peace in the world more likely if he is stopped.
erens followers are justified, eren himself isn’t
AND HE HIMSELF AGREES WITH THAT
His friends didn’t know about the euthanization plan. They found out about that plan after they were arrested. They thought they were going to only do a small scale rumbling.
Some people have called eren wanted a full scale rumbling and not search for other options, bruh did they even saw S4 pt 1&2, like when he try with diplomatic way
Right? He literally tried everything
Anyone who thinks Eren is in the right are ignoring the literal main theme of the show: Violence leads to more violence, and creates a never ending cycle of war.
I understand Eren’s perspective and actions but he is not justified in those actions at all.
Might is right. The ends justify the means. And it's not violence its self defense.
4:35 they helped him because without him paradis would be lost. and they had hope eren is going to do a small scale rumbling
8:00 where to run? there is no realistic escape. the only option would be airships and bunkers but there arent many. and everything would be destroyed afterwards so people couldn’t start a new life
9:32 he was disappointed with the outside world. his meaning of freedom didn’t match with it. i don’t think he would step back even if there was an option
im pretty sure his friends fought for Eren because it was either that or die by the invading Marleyians, dealing with the possible euthanization was something to worry about when people aren't pointing a gun to your head
I think Armin & the scouts helped Eren because they figured he had a different plan than Zeke's, a better one. And, well, it certainly was different, but definitely not better
AOT isn't a show about right or wrong anymore. Marleyians and the world are right to dispose Eldia because they can turn into man eating titans and the threat of the Rumbling always existed. Eren is right to destroy the world that is trying to kill his people, even if it meant the Rumbling. The Rumbling as of now was the peak moment for it to happen. Had the outside world developed more, then it would even become rumbling resistant. It's live or die on both sides, fight for your life. And in the end, the fittest survives
I have one silly question: can we hide in the basement to survive the rumbling :D
I think we can, it depends on how strong the structure if said its just ordinary basement i think it will collapse due to weight of collapse building, if subway tunnel, underground military base or cave i think it can hold. With downside of the entrance got blocked by debris or die by lack of oxygen
Absolutely, completely, 100% not. Not only the weight, but the sheer number of the titans, plus the heat. You'd either dir by being flattened, from starvation from waiting it out and/or resources being destroyed or my favorite, you'd cook. They are EXTREMELY hot and coming near them sets you on fire (See Armin and anonymous = avoiding a spoiler). If one is that hot, then imagine 100s of millions huddled together? Other than flying, it's no way to survive
That is a very silly question
He gave Eldia freedom at the cost of his own life. By no means is wiping out 80% of humanity justified, just that he had to do it or they would be wiped out.
..No? they didnt back Eren up to support the euthanization plan. they backed up Eren because they trusted Armin when he said he doesnt believe Eren is actually on Zeke's side. they supported eren getting to Zeke in hopes he would betray Zeke and use a partial rumbling to deter attack on the island and send those titans to take out the allied forces. The reason they "backed down" is because eren clearly wasnt doing that. he was sending all of them. which is genocide on the world. which is wrong. idk if you missed that but it was clear to me at least.
4:35
I don't know if you missed the scene at the prison cell but they choose to help Eren because Armin convinced them (and they were convinced because the plan was too out of character even for this supposedly changed Eren) that Eren's plan is the 50 year partial rumbling instead of the eutanasia plan.
That why Comparsion of Hitler and Eren are just stupid in my opinion, for Hitler he is a mianic mentally evil man who wants to touture jews, for eren his actions are not justice but He understandable
marley did it to themselves if genocide is not what they deserve then idk what is
The only reason Eren is wrong is because he died without killing all his enemies.
Yeah, but he made his point crystal clear to the world that never mess with the people of paradise. You will never get away with it. You may end up giving rise to another devil. And also he gave them the perfect example that karma will always get to you no matter what.
based
@@_joesunil_23 he didnt make a point... he made it worse by not killing his enemies and the world pretty much got what they wanted
@@_joesunil_23 Who is gonna be afraid of Titanless Eldians that are 100 years behind in technology?
@@TheSinisterkelly that's exactly why he planned to wipe out the whole world, so there won't be anyone left even after 100 years to come after the Eldians.
The way I see it genocide is never justified even if it’s nothing but bad people or if the person carrying it out has good intentions
I guess Isayama was just tired after writing AOT for many years. So he made sloppy plot to rush ending and f*cked up with main characters in the process of creating chaotic environment. People are just fighting about right or wrong on a sloppy ending it's sad. Neither Eren had the rights to start rumbling nor Eren's friends had the rights to kill their own people. In the end there's only one truth, "Reigner always will be Isayama's favorite son."
There is no villain in AOT. Legit no one is innocent. Eren, Reiner, Armin, Bertholt, etc. Everyone has blood on their hands. And you really can’t blame them. We were both shown that both Marley and Eldia were tyrannical empires. The Alliance and the Yeagerists both have good reasons. One side wants to save other nations and other side wants protect themselves. So you really can’t blame either party. It’s not to prove which ideology is right or wrong. It just shows what people have to do to live in this cruel world. My only problem is that I wish isayama gave the alliance a solution to have peace between eldians and the rest of the world if they were to stop the rumbling. I also wish he showed marleyans not as a monolith because he just made them and other races in AOT as just bigoted people that hates eldians. I mean could’ve had some of the non-eldians who wanted peace with the paradise eldians.
You know, I've always wanted to discuss Attack On Titan on UA-cam. But I know that eventually more experienced and popular UA-camrs well do it better than I can. Uh. But I do like participating in comments. I think it's just a complicated set of circumstances, and Eren was the person destined to simply carry out what he thought was right with immense power and great misjudgements
I just love tht Scout Regiment jackets. Have one myself..
No misjudgment. Eren did it because Marley formed an alliance with all the world leaders through Willy Tybur. The whole WORLD was against Paradis. Either do the small-scale rumbling, wait 50 years, outside technology gets so advanced that Eldia gets wiped out, or kill all your enemies and end the cycle of hatred. There was no choice.
Just a reflection of our world and the current wave of righteousness that is sweeping it.
Eren isn't, realistically the villain.
The villain truly is "The Attack Titan" and it's will. It has a constant will and desire for freedom, and it's set its gaze upon destroying EVERYTHING to achieve that freedom.
Flashback to S1 EP25 when Eren says he'll destroy the entire world, that was the Attack Titan speaking pretty much.
It's also Ymir's secret hatred for how she was treated.
Eren is wrong. The only reason the present situation is "it's either us or them" is because between the two Jaeger brothers, they've systematically removed all other options for defending the island. As long as Marley was fighting the rest of the world as was in S4EP1, Paradise was safe.
Isayama really just wanted a dark ending, simple as that. But as he grew as a mangaka, as a person and as his range of audience grew, he realized that... he was freaking lost, he didn't know how to wrap up the plot. With enough pressure to get it over with he just did what he could. For example, taking a yo yo and giving one half to the ending defenders and the other the the ending justifiers. 80 percent and done. And mostly catering to shippers and writing to make the episodes fun. But the plot is agonizingly half-witted.
He should have gone with his original ending regardless of how dark. The alliance makes no sense
@@zub41r75 what was the original ending?
Alliances get killed
@@zub41r75 Original ending?
@@alarminglyfastmovingskelet7289 allience dies , eren wins , eldian thrive
Remember that the first time eren trusted his squad to save their own lives, he instantly regretted it
"Why did his friends support him if they thought he was doing the euthansia plan"
No offense, but this is like a fundamental misreading of what happened. Armin and the gang explictly didn't think eren supported the euthansia plan. They thought he was doing the 50 year plan, not the full rumbling.
Don’t talk to an attack on Titan fan about the morality of genocide
Honestly for everything that has happened I think that Erin is definitely justified in his actions
I'm actually covered with wall titans but still wanted to see this
Eren and Zeke basically had the exact same Idea but they stood on different sides. In another Video where someone ranked Titan shifters from good to evil Eren was the second most evil shifter while Zeke was the nr.1 evil Shifter. I think it should be the other way around because Zeke wanted to kill all eldians while Eren wanted to kill the entire to let the Eldians be free. On the one Hand Zeke wanted to kill a smaller "Group" of people in order to cause Peace. Eren on the other Hand acts within this "small Group" and of course wants to kill everyone else to achieve Peace.
--> Eren would kill a far bigger group of people than Zeke
I got big problems with this video.
7:57 - Somewhere safe? Hundreds of thousands? Like where? Maybe 3 got on an airship. You can't be serious.
8:30 - Yes they do. Eren wanted to do this.
You also kinda glossed over the millions of innocent lives being lost. Won't look for the timestamp, it was earlier.
Hate wasn't gonna be destroyed with the rest of the world either. Plenty of people killed eachother inside the walls, all killing everyone does is limit the amount of ppl taking part in a conflict. (Kinda like what the Japanese milf said to Folch)
Eren, floch and yeagerist are absolutely right did anybody else was able to come up with any other ideas ?? So nobody got any right to say he's wrong he's doing whatever he can to protect his country atleast he isn't killing his own ppl by joining enemies like some clowns
Thats like backing up germany during ww2 genocide. Genocide Is wrong and what eren going to do Is even killing innocents who did nothing wrong like him when he was wrong. So he Is no different than a psychopath and his enemies
@murdertheextrovert genocide - the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group. The last time I chaked Germany in ww2 was involved with a genocide.
But a lot of people in Paradis were killed by the rumbling. Peoples houses were destroyed, the top government officials were still titans and Eren didn’t even bother turning them back, Connie’s mother is still a titan. To me it seems like Eren just wants revenge and not actually to protect his people.
He was never doing it for his country, he just wanted freedom for himself.
Also the Yeagerists killed their own people first by turning them into titans, and execution many others outside of that. At least the alliance tries to stop genocide unlike them.
@murdertheextrovert you're right, it's omnicide.
Well it's not like eren thinks that he's right by commiting genocide,
I don’t think people are comprehending that Eldia is facing a world of Nazis, it’s not gonna be as simple as asking them nicely to stop. I don’t think Paradis even knows the history of Nazis, Eren however knows how Nazis are. Paradis has to take nuclear action if they want to survive.
There's really no Villain here..
Both sides are trying to protect..
And it's your choice who to pick sides in
Spoilers...
Eren was right because in the end of the manga paradise was destroyed any way
Have you even read properly. He was only going to kill 80% to give time for his friends not to face genocide. He didn't cared a thing about paradise. He is a Joker, an utter failure. He failed to save paradise from facing genocide, he failed to bring peace in world.
I spent my adolescence and my adulthood watching this show. This cast of characters feels closer to my heart than any other. I love Eren, Mikasa, Armin, Levi, Hange, Jean, Connie, Sasha. Yet I never felt like the Rumbling was justified. I get why Eren would choose to do this, but I can't justify it in my mind. (Still, I'm excited as hell to see it animated)
to be honest
if i was in Eden's condition, I guess I would also have committed genocide without any regrets
cuz the same happened to eren's family, people of shiganshina who were all innocent cuz their memories were erased
but still they had to suffer from their ancestors mistake
i think it's eren's best idea
and i support it with my heart
shinzou sasagaeyo
They did not support the Euthanazia plan, they supported a partial rumbling, which would have used only the outer wall's titans from Shingashina, which are thousands, enough to destroy the coalition fleet and maybe damage Marley's military. That would have been enough for the people outside Paradise to realize they have to really deal with consequences, and they would have left Paradise alone. However, that would have meant that Historia and her future children have to cannibalize each other to inherit a titan in order to start a new rumbling if necessary in the future. Or one of them simply had to be turned a mindless titan, they seemingly don't age. That is not a good option, but it was supportable, survival for the least amount of suffering.
Objectively, the rumbling is just as wrong as it was for the Marleyans to hate Eldians (along with everyone else), use titans for war and set titans on Paradise. Or it was just as wrong for the old Eldian Empire to take over the whorld, probably having the same ideologies, treaetment and tools they used on their opponents the Marleyans adopted later. Everybody finds their valid reasons to commit horrible things, but none of them are right, and they usually indiscriminately hurt innoncent people. But the people don't care, for there is an ancient evil race that destroyed everything in the past, and there is a hostile world that hates everything in you and made you suffer. People don't care about differences.
Of course, real people don't care about morally right or philosophically right decisions when they are so deeply affected. The Yaegerists can obviously accept that someone ended their suffering, whatever was the cost (they might feel bad, but it's strangers vs their loved ones), while the people knowing actual persons from the outside world obviously can't accept that their death might bring a new era of peace. These people might make morally bad decisions, but they are all understandable- basically, the alliance fights for humanity, the yaegerists fight for humanity, they just have different opinions about what is humanity.
Easy he becomes the villain when he refused to allow historia to become a Titan and all her children to eat each other on top of the scouts and military weren’t doing anything they let time go which allowed the Marley government to have willy declare war if eren wasn’t their eldia would be done
As I interpreted it the reason they protected eren was partly because armin slightly convincing them that he was going to do the partial rumbling instead of zekes plan, but otherwise as fas as they knew zeke and eren would of made the enemy forces leave by force anyway once there plan is complete so they can keep eldians safe until they die out.
Basically eren was there only option for long term safety either way
Sadly, the rumbling was the only solution. At the end of the day the future generations are the ones that are suffering for a new war because the cycle of hate never ends, now the cycle of war and hate continues and Eren is the new Ymir and everything repeats again.
Eren could have ended the cycle and maybe bring peace finally.
But who kwons ¯ \ _ (ツ) _ / ¯, I only know that the alliance are clowns lmao.
That whole thing with the euthanasia was not correct: Eren’s friends didn’t want to be euthanized at all. In fact they were against it so much that they had to be locked up. It was only when Armin convinced them that eren wasn’t actually with Zeke that they fought Reiner, Pieck and Marley to help eren get to Zeke because they believed that eren would just rumble the global alliance and not let Zeke euthanize them
It was only after they realized eren would exterminate all life outside of paradis that they would try to stop eren because they didn’t want to have all people outside paradis be destroyed
I am sure there was no other options
Armin and his friends couldn't convince their comrades from the jeagerists to forget their hate of the outside world so why would the outside world be convinced to forget their hate toward the eldians even if the rumbling stopped?
The alliance aren't morally right, they are simply choosing which genocide to support and which genocide to oppose simply based on the number of casualties so it's a messed up situation in every way
Another factor is time overcoming the propaganda that was placed on people's heads is not easy to remove it'll take years and years of convincing and actions to prove that they are of not threat to the world by the time they are understood Eren is dead, Zeke is dead or Marley had already attacked and the act convincing the world has not happened.
@@marc9242 yup
If only we had time (even though it isn't fair toward the people that would still be oppressed until the results of all that time comes into fruition)
the alliance aren't planning on just letting the world genocide Paradis, they're pursuing the small hope of a peaceful resolution.
And i mean... people loved the Tybur's for going against the evil eldian empire and treated them as royalty, going by the AoT universe's logic, going against Eren is the best choice possible in terms of peaceful resolution.
@@galarstar052 they were heroes for the jeagerists too!
And they still went against them the moment their goals strayed away from each other.
If they couldn't "peace talk" the jeagerists (their own people, the comrades that look up to them and fought with them) to stop the rumbling how would they peace talk the world from doing an equivalent to the rumbling upon the island??
It's simply an unrealistic choice and they did not only choose it for themselves but for the entire island as well dooming them in the process.
@@mohamedelhediissa289 i assume you read the manga based on your tone but ima give you a spoiler warning just in case:
Specifically, i was mainly talking in the context of the ending how them saving the world from Eldian Tyranny is literally the exact same scenario that got the Tybur's worldwide recognition and admiration. In that scenario "peace talking" would be entirely feasible... and that's exactly how it DOES go. But for an option with a 0% genocide rate, i saw someone suggest on reddit a plan that involved killing off wall titans one by one as a show of good faith (not all at once, obviously) using them as a bargaining cheap to initiate those peace talks. I can try and find it for you if you want, it's a really well thought out plan. With enough time they presumably could have thought of something similar, although obviously it's not without risks and they're on limited time.
I feel like isayama was trying to show us how evil and complicated war is. Not only do innocent people get put in the cross fire. So does the whole world.
The problem is that people take his actions' motivations to be something noble when it's not; not at its core.
It was a selfish act with a selfish motivation. To justify it misses the point of the story.
Edit for the people that don't get it: it's a spoiler, the true motivation for Eren's actions which gets revealed later on in the series. It's inherently selfish and not really about what everyone assumes it to be.
@BenMedia Lol Erens life is literally just a Hitler life story. They are both men who angry they live in a country left into ruin and they turn into madmen who want to commit genocide to make the world the way they want to. I do not think it is a coincidence that the universe is revolves around German-like countries and Marley is living around the 30s/40s. And what notorious German in the 30s/40s is declared an enemy to the world in real-life just like Eren was?
And it upsets me that Floch is blatantly the most Nazi like character and I’m baffled people do not see it.
@BenMedia The whole point of the story is both Marley and Eldian governments have been ruled by bad people. Are you really denying that King Fritz was not a cruel tyrant who ruled over Eldia and oppressed Marleyeans and used Ymir as her slave? The irony that Paradis has been fighting Titans only to realize the walls that protected them are Titan themselves the entire time showing that what “kept them safe” is in fact their enemy. People think Eren “keeps Eldia safe” but he’s in fact a Titan attacking humanity himself. Eren was praised in making Paradis strong again by most Eldians - at first - just like Hitler was praised to making Germany strong again by most Germans at first
Many Germans blames wealthy Jewish officials for enabling the Treatyof Versailles for keeping Germany in ruin and oppression from other countries. Hitler was not the only person to believe it - many German citizens did. The Weimar Republic (which had many wealthy Jews thrived in) the rise of Zionism and propaganda for Jews responsible for Germany’s lost didn’t help them think it was not trying to take the country. Nazi supports think the Holocaust was necessary in order to stop other people and Jews from their plans in destroying Germany the same way Eren thinks the rumbling was necessary to stop Marleyeans and.
And the transition from the Weimar republic to Nazis is just like the transition from the Survey corp to the Yeagarists. And now we have Yeagarists treating Survey corp like traitors like Nazis treated people in Weimar republic like traitors.
Eren easily could’ve threatened the world not the mess with Paradis the moment he received the founding Titan power- cause they could not do anything to stop him anyway. He could’ve had Armin and the survey corp negotiate with Marley to free the Eldians living in Marley and deflate this “devil” propaganda. He could’ve use Yelena (who is Marleayean) and Onyankopon (from another country) to be liaisons to show other countries outside Paradis are willing to support Eldians. Even Onyankopon tells Floch that he came to help Eldia and now they are trying to kill his own people in return showing Jeagarists are just as terrible as Marley government. Eren could’ve used them to show there are people in other countries willing to help the pain Eldia has been in and he still had 4 years to do so.
Marley has a devil propaganda with Ymir as Eldia has a god propaganda belief with Ymir- when both sides are wrong and deceived by their governments to have that black and white thinking. Eldia was deceived by Karl Fritz who took away Eldia memories to forget the crimes against humanity eldia done under Fritz’s bloodline.
@BenMedia Eren doesn’t care about Paradis though he is just a madman obsessed with freedom. Both and anime and manga have a a shot of Eren after his first Titan transformation subtly looking at us the audience saying “I will kill you all” and Armin notice him saying it to himself. It wasn’t being figurative in the statement like it seemed to be it was literally telling Eren was going to kill everyone for his goals if he had a chance to.
If Eren really cared about Eldians why did he allowed survey corp to turn into Titians and eat Eldian civilians and why trample over Liberio Eldians? Cause it’s not about helping Eldians it’s about his “freedom”.
Again German Nazi supporters had the same mentality that it was them against the rest of the world that hated them after WW1 even though they oppressed Germany as well as other countries.
Hitler could’ve created better realation with people responsible for the Treaty of Versailles when he gained power but he didn’t as Eren could’ve created better relations when he gained more Titan power but he didn’t. Hitler is just a madman obsessed with a master race and Eren is a madman obsessed with freedom. Their own followers are blind to see because of their too biased and too prejudiced in their own political climates. Even if Eren did not decide to be a “devil” Marley wasn’t going to destroy Paradis cause the survey corp already was gaining allies outside their countries. It is basically a WW2 that was happening anyway. Eren didn’t prevent it he only decides to be the heart of it like Hitler decided to be the heart of it. The world war became with Hitler invading Poland like Eren invades Marley.
There was no limit to Eren’s own desire for freedom like there was no limit for Hitler’s desire for building his empire. Eren was still acted like a child notion. He was literally his kid form when destroying Marley symbolizing Eren figuratively still thinks like a kid about his goal.
@BenMedia The only reason I am saying this Hitler comparison is because Attack on Titian is intentionally set in German society and is around the 30s. Isayama did not do this without any thematic meaning and parallelism of what happened in real life. Both Marley AND Eldia reflect the nature of the Nazis. You are the one with black and white thinking of you think it is just for Marley.
Im pretty sure Hitler told his citizens to desire to help them by invading other countries but doesn’t change the fact he’s screwing and oppressing his own citizens anyway as well.
Marley is how Nazis are externally as Paradis is how Nazis internally are.
Zeke had an abusive father under Grisha like Hitler did. Eren had a civil servant father under Grisha like Hitler did.
Zeke is externally like how Hitler’s enemies see him as Eren is internally like Hitler’s enemies see him.
Zeke is internally like how Hitler’s allies see him as Eren is externally how Hitler’s allies see him.
Mind you Hitler legit both a euthanasia plan (Aktion T4) and a genocide plan (Holocaust). You seriously cannot ignore how similar this is.
Even without the Hitler comparison:
Zeke is internally like Grisha in Marley as Eren externally like Grisha in Paradis.
Zeke is externally like Grisha in Paradis as Eren is internally like Grisha in Marley.
Eren had a chance to negotiate with Marley once he showed the truth about Grisha to Zeke. If Eren truly supported and cared for Zeke like a brother he could’ve convinced him to let go of the euthanasia plan and use their Titan power to make an ultimatum with Marley. However Eren only pushed Zeke into hating him and to continue the euthanasia plan without him.
It’s really a edgelord notion that “I have to be bad to do good” but whatever you are the one justifying genocide not me.
@BenMedia Yeah it is edgelord if I hear someone justifying genocide on the internet lol The whole point of the series is character realizing that what they are fighting is not black and white and that they have enemies on your own “side”.
Nobody ever forgets a genocide no matter how many you kill People will remember and use it against you in the future. Eren’s allies surviving to know it is the epitome of this point. And Titan power or no Titan power, Marley or no Marley, Eldians would eventually fight each other if they were the only people in the world which is what Hizuru basically says to Floch and he ignores it.
Eren literally cries like a man child to Armin in the paths because he is a man childish goal to let go of his childish version of freedom he held onto.
It is intentional that Eren becomes more of a villian throughout the series as Marley becomes less of a villian as the series goes on.
Imagine if someone sociopath had a trigger to ignite the majority of nukes in the world all to himself. How is it wise for other countries to nuke the country of the guy with the ultimate nuclear launch trigger is from?
It really is not. It is just like this scenario on how I doubt Marley do nothing considering all the titan power Eren had.
Eren was right and that's the tragic part. He and Karl Fritz before him both ultimately decided to give peace a shot, and in both cases it did NOT happen.
Evil comes from within not from outside. Jesus Christ, teaches us to how to love each other, how to be selflesss and put others first. If we all followed Christ, there would be no war, we’d live in peace and harmony.
That last point is the most important. He could use the founding titan's power without destroying the world. He could just have the wall titans surrounded Marley and form the wall around them. I believe he didn't want any alternatives just because he would be torturing Historia and her descendants. Eren is the only character to ever go through with choosing his friends over the world
I watched the whole video wheres the rest
The thing thats great in aot is how everytging is up in the air and up to interpetation. Like "is this character in the right?" "Was this the only way?"etc etc
the greatest stories ever told, are the ones where humans must put aside differences to "save the world". regardless of the ending I do not know as im anime only ....... eren I believe must become the true devil so the world can erase the history of the titans and let the world remember a new "devil" that will be beaten.
the quality of your commentary and editing of the video far exceed your recognition, keep up the work my man I feel like you're gonna make it big!
Heroes
Villains
They are the same in some capacity
Tragic past
Villains want the world suffer like they did
Heroes want the world not to suffer like they did
So you can see. Eren is not really a hero. Not really a villain. He's just like us after all.
From what I understood, Eren's friends wanted to help him to release a sample of the rumbling, but not to destroy the whole world.
If 10 people are out to kill me and I find a weapon that can get rid of all of them. I'M GETTING RID OF THEM EVERY TIME. They could've easily choose that killing is senseless.
Personally I think that from Eren's perspective there was no other choice but to activate the Rumbling. From his point of view the Marlians said time and again that they were gonna wipe out Paradis regardless. No talking, no negotiating, no nothing. It was gonna be a complete and utter slaughtering of Paradis without them knowing why. Not only that but it was said several times that in other places besides Marley that the Eldians were treated way worse than what we even saw. Now people can say "well that's just what they told you" but that argument doesn't hold up. The characters that said that have no reason to lie about it. So all we can do is take them at face value. The whole world was out to get the Eldians so while I agree that straight up genocide isn't the answer to the problem I'd ask people what their solution would be. Eren saw the future and saw what would happen. It's only natural that he would react the way he did. He's seen the way the outside world treats his people. So wiping out everybody else before that can happen to said people seems to be a reasonable response given his position and what he knows