Why the Empire Replaced Everything with the V-wing
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- Опубліковано 23 кві 2024
- Towards the end of the clone wars, one star fighter started getting more popular than all the other variants used by the Republic Navy. It was called the Alpha-3 Nimbus-class V-wing starfighter, and it had a unique set of characteristic that made it a favorite of Supreme Chancellor Palpatine. The V-wing would one day go on to inspire the creation of the Tie Fighter line.
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Many of us have clocked hella hours in that baby on battlefront 2
"For months every hour of our downtime was spent in the simulator."
For me, it's the 170, or BTL-B
It’s so smooth
Arc-gang rise up
2005 or 2017?
Tarkin, “These starfighters are time costing relics of the past symbolizing hope.”
Me, “You pretty much gave the Rebels free real estate.”
Tarkin is really greedy to cut down cost
The decision to try using the ARC-170 in a role it was never designed or meant for and then judging it based on it's performance in that role is mind bogglingly
Reminds me of how the F-104 Starfighter and how it often was abused for every possible role it wasnt designed for and got a bad reputation for it
@@alias_aka_alias
I believe the whole West German Air Force had to be retrained on how they operated it because of the losses.
That's politics
Yet what's worse, is that it seems to reflect what happens in real life too.
Imagine sending an F-35 retrofit for long range stealth kills to go fight in a dogfight against, _I dunno,_ an F-22 or a RAFALE. Then judging it as crap for not doing nearly as well as the proper dogfighters. =__=
It's like saying snipers suck and should be phased out, because they don't do well in the middle of firefights inside buildings.
I fully agree!
I am not going to make myself many friends with this, but that is the same situation with the Starfortress bombers from the Sequels.
In an RP I was doing with some friends, we were in the mid-Empire era and got our hands on some V-Wings. Stuck some old droid fighter brains in them, used them to cover us when smuggling arms to the Troydarian Resistance (they had more money than most other rebel factions we found).
We use the vehicle and weapons guides in our games, and when we looked at what the V-Wing offered versus Tie Fighters, we loved it. Plus, they were easy to rip off, since there were millions in junkyards with poorly-paid security and overseers. They are so tiny, we could attach like four to our freighter, leave them outside sensor range, do our mission, then pick them up as an escort whil running from the sector patrols.
One of them held off a Sith Inquisitor in a fighter long enough for us to escape... RIP 4C/3.
oh i like the old droid fighter brain idea very cool, reminds me of cham syndulla almost killed palpatine that one time
@@GenerationTech HUH
I feel that idea could be applied to the 170 but to make the rear gunner and front gunner automated so it became a single seater heavy fighter
@@kardona_3 If I recall rightly, Syndulla had some droid brain controlled craft kamikaze into the ship was Palpatine was on to visit Ryloth and almost took him and Vader both out.
@@The_Lucent_Archangel nice
Well, the _Y-Wing_ replaced most strike bombers because procurement asked _Why Wing?_ and someone misheard and was confused.
That one person named Wing.
*Visible Confusion*
These were the most elusive ships to me as a kid. They barely appeared in the films, weren’t in the main mode in Lego Star Wars Tcs, but I saw it all the time in reference books.
there were v-wing sets
@@quinnhasse9170 I was talking about Lego Star Wars the complete saga(or tcs). The video game from 2007. It wasn’t in the main roster of ships from that game.
Those ships deserved more respect
The Republic Navy should have just gotten a lot of light freighters and modded them - when upgraded they are apparently _vastly superior to starfighters,_ according to all the shows and movies. /s
Only if you have got tons of credits and are willing to "overclock" systems till they would fail on a semi-regular basis.
It's like the old moonshiners who tricked out their cars so they could outrun law enforcement.
well, yes and no.
Having the space to carry a good shield, weapons and hyperdrive, while having the power and size to be nimble and evasive is great, but you still need to rely on these shields at that size.
that's a risk. one that might be worth taking depending on the shield and the ship, but a risk nonetheless.
for a pirate, expected to run into localized trouble with small forces, yeah, I can see that doing well, shields giving enough time to spool up the hyperdrive, while the sunlight engines give you the required mobility to not take so many hits your shields go down or a critical system gets hit, before punching out as quickly as you can. for military forces who need to stay and fight? nope, that will be a very bad idea. i mean it will still be better then nothing, but not great
Go the Wedge Antilles route and buy a bunch of proton torpedo launchers to put on your freighters and slave them to fighter targeting to destroy an SSD.
@@homeonegreen9
I'd forgotten that tactic from the old X-Wing novels. Was that The Bacta War?
But you cannot expect them to hold out over a drawn-out war.
They are effective in singular skirmishes, but not reliable when not given necessary breathing and maintenance intervals.
The reference to that one foo fighters clip at 6:46 is the best part of the video 😂
yeah i can't get that dave grohl story out of my head lol
Foo fiiightterrss😂
That solid Walken impression blind-sided me so good =D
@@Berethruu I want to hear more. We need more cow bell!
I think the 1 thing Allen get's wrong here is the V-wing not only had shields but if you look closely at the Republic variant it also used an astromech but in all fairness though it's likely the Empire removed both to make the V-wing easier to mass produce at the cost of quality.
One of my favorite fighters! Next to the z95 clone headhunter
The Z-95 is just a good, solid, design.
It is like the Mad Cat/Timberwolf from BattleTech, a perfect mix of speed, firepower and toughness!
That is the reason for why it is still used all over the galaxy.
It still boggles my mind that Lucasfilm still hasn't hired you, Allen. Your knowledge of the more intricate technical aspects of Star Wars and also the lore is amazing.
The Empire ditching the V-wing with the TIE Fighter has to be one of the most brain-dead decisions they ever made
Same as ditching the F-14 for the F-18.
I think the tie was cheaper and it was quantity over quality
@@East_Coast_Toasty_BoyF-14 doesn’t have a damn thing on the 18
@@AngryJawa0094100% accurate. The f14 was a bitch to fly, very simplistic functionality. The f-18 and the f-14 are about as far apart technology wise as the f-4 and the f-14.
It's not really brain dead since ANH was released first and they had tie fighters and any other craft in Star Wars prequels or clone wars that wasn't in the trilogy had to find a way to disappear before battle of Endor.
I would combine the best qualities of the V-wing with the ETA 2 Actis.
If I were palpatine, I would’ve just slapped the solar panels on the wings of the V-wing and call it a day, would’ve been perfect for defending against the rebels
Wasn’t most republic vehicles used by the imperial army corps and security forces at the end of the war ?
The problem was you’d have to redesign the entire thing to incorporate the twin ion engine
Rebels were a rare occurrence. V-Wings were too expensive. Plus there would always be more TIEs.
@@angelic_disappointment7889 The later Vwings had the Tie Engines.
And a Vwing hull with the Tie Interceptor Wings be absolutely terrifying looking
i love the spitfire comparison, but also the hurricane shoutout
❤️ hurricane my beloved ❤️
The Nimbus is 1 of my favorite fighters in Star Wars. In my opinion it's the perfect fighter for planetary defense. It has TIE for almost no maintenance on the engines. It has an astromech to assist the pilot with flying, rotating the blasters, and doing maintenance between missions. Finally, it has the ability to land pretty much anywhere without fabricated landing pads. While the lack of a hyperdrive without rings would be a hindrance for a carried fighter, for in system combat it's perfect and far less expensive.
That vwing is still my favorite starfighter in star wars. Glad to see it used so frequently in bad batch
The minor psyche shift into Christopher walken was hilarious
Ah yes, the fighter Pandemic used as a bomber class in Battlefront II....
yeah that was kind of strange
Makes sense to me as there was no defined bomber class in the movies for the republic and as the eta-2 and arc-170 already had roles depicted onscreen they might as well use the third new starfighter to fill the last remaining role
@@multikings20 yeah, it wasn't until the CW that they added the Y-Wing as the bomber while the CIS used Grievous ship as their Bomber whereas now it is the Hyena Droid Bomber.
@@GenerationTech remember they used Grievous ship as the CIS bomber?
@multikings20 Y-Wings were at least the canonical Republic bomber, so using Y-Wings for the Republic wouldn't have been too out of place, but yeah, classic Battlefront 2 had two interceptors with one shoved into a bomber role.
V-wing’s still my favorite base ship in BF2
Elliptical wings (such as on the Spitfire) were said to be the most efficient at generating lift. They didn’t become prolific, however, in large part because they were difficult to manufacture, let alone mass produce.
It's been a while since I had time to drop in - my bad.
That being said, it was worth the wait for this bit of lore.
My thanks sir.
The virgin tie
-no astromech
-impractical cockpit
-dumb looking wings giving it a massive frame
-a flying coffin unless you were an imperial cockpit
-made by a dictatorship
The Chad V-wing
-small frame
-superior bubble canopy
-astromech so you won’t die alone
-FOR THE REPUBLIC
Real chads will take the TIE, no shields all guts and skill
This is a UA-cam channel where the Hawker Hurricane gets some love with background I didn't know about the V-Wing. This is why I am here. Keep up the good work!
I'm pretty sure the V-Wing had shields, it didn't have a hyperdrive or life support though it could use a hyperdrive ring and had a built in astromech for that job.
I would point out something about the V-19 (that the V-Wing had to some extent) the maintenance. It's a Slayb & Korpil design, and its later descendant the B-Wing is well known to be a pain in the ass to maintain; now, couple this with the fact the V-19 is a rushed production model (aka not all teething problems were solved) and extend it into a fleet composed of hundreds if not thousands of carriers and you find yourself with a logistical challenge (and also a lot of downed time for maintenance) to cope with the intensive use of such craft.
All these reasons are why you find quickly the V-19 replaced by Z95 head hunter. The Z95 also had 2 main challenges; the aging airframe on which it was based (despite all the retrofits kit you can slap on it, it'll still be a Z-95) and the place it took. The V-19 had at least the decency of having folding wings, for a smaller footprint on flight deck while the Z-95 was big to maneuver around .
Finally would come the V-Wing, it was as compact as the V-19, as simple to maintain as the Z-95 (I could argue even simpler due to the T.I.E engine system); had more firepower at dogfighting range than both (since faster recharge but lower range). It has drawback though, as a lack of hyperdive* and projectile launcher** but it was designed to fight against those pesky tri-fighters who are pretty much apex predator in the dogfight domain with the small superior edge of being shielded (as the excellent and now cannon Starship and vehicles of revenge of the Sith shows).
So as a conclusion, I'd say the following : any technical solution is a compromise, what the Republic strategist choose with the V-Wing must be described in the context of which the decision happened
*it can be retrofitted with one, and having an astromech on-board, it could do multiple jumps
**according to some sources it had a projectile launcher, but too me this seems to be too little to take into account
One of my biggest disappointments with the Bad Batch is that it seems we will not get to see the first TIE fighters and Imperial Star Destroyers rolled out.
Then again, the Bad Batch takes place really early in the empire's reign. Republic assets were still very much in use and were very common.
So... about the Imperial Star Destroyer being in TBB.
I just want to know where all of the other ones went… after order 66, you see nothing but V wings (until Tie fighters show up) suddenly the 100s of Y wings, Z95 head hunters and Arc170s all of a sudden disappear.
most of them are scrapped, some make it to the black market. THe rebel alliance actually would operate v-wings, y-wings, z95s and arc 170s in small amounts
From my understanding, the early rebellion's starfighters would predominantly be Y-Wings, A-Wings and Z-95s, before they would get ahold of the designs for the X-wing. Never seen an ARC-170 be used by a rebel, but then again I haven't been reading the books or comics; last source I had was the Empire at War game.
I can imagine Y-Wings being pulled out very quickly, given that they were responsible for a lot of Republic atrocities during the clone wars. People don't want to see them again. ARC's were just too expensive
Not sure what the new lore is, but in the Legends canon, Z95s had been for sale for decades before the Clone Wars. The original models didn't come with shields or hyperdrives, and had underpowered blaster cannons instead of laser cannons. Because of that, it had a thriving aftermarket for parts, and whole squadrons of them wound up in the hands of mercenaries, raiders, pirates, and, eventually, the Rebellion. It's one of the reasons why they were one of the ubiquitous "neutral/pirate" enemy fighters in games like X-Wing, TIE Fighter, and so on.
ARC-170 is comparable to the WW2 Messerschmitt Bf 110 and Kawasaki Ki-45. Those real life twin engine planes were chewed up and out classed by smaller single engine fighters. V-wing is my absolute favourite Star Wars ship along with the TIE Interceptor and X-wing.
I love these deep dives into starfighters and design and history. thank you for these.
Truly glorious
ARC-170s had a crew of three!?!!
I think that might be including the astromech
@@rjwong521nope. Pilot, copilot, and rear gunner. Including the astromech, it's 4.
Delta-7 is basically just your personal spacecraft tuned for jedi and armed enough to fight off pirates.
i never understood on why the empire stop used the v wing it seem to be a far better fighter then a standard tie fighter
Ideology. If it doesn't fit the narrative, it can't be used. The Soviet Union developed a fighter after WW2 called the MiG-9. IIRC it had a 37mm main gun on the nose. Turns out, firing something that big next to your intakes will cause an engine flameout. But they kept it in service because they had made such a big deal about how powerful it was. Hence why it was called "The parade fighter". It was the "ultimate fighter" until the MiG-15 went into production and was then quietly dropped and scrapped.
They only kept it for as long as they did because how often they would brag about it. It would make them look weak if they admitted it was a poor design, something Stalin could not allow as they had to keep their reputation.
Similarly, the Empire viewed non-humans as "lesser". So to have their frontline fighter built by non-humans would counter that argument and show they are in fact not "lesser" than human. Making the whole argument about humans being the top harder to sell.
The V-wing was not better than the standard TIE either, common fan misconception
@@angelic_disappointment7889 So in which way was the TIE superior? It was sadly not explained in the video.
@@Youda00008 the TIE had the following advantages:
Superior Maneuverability
Faster by a great magnitude
Far stronger laser cannons
Was known for being a cakewalk for maintenance
Far more efficient targeting and sensor systems
It has sensor jamming capabilities
Forgot to add that the TIE was also cheaper
Often retain these in late period games for planetary police dash defence corps.. all that's needed is to use the docking points for the hyperspace ring to mount a couple of concussion missiles.. very effective and worlds better than reusing basic tie fighters..
The V-Wing was a powerful threat when there wasn't a real space fighter force to contend with.
Short answer is that Starfighters were somewhat new invention when Galactic Civil War Started. They actually were not used in larger numbers before that and so change in technology was rapid.
For me, V-Wing will always mean the hovercraft frighter from the N64 X-Wing game with scramble jets, cluster missles, and rapid-fire capable laser cannons.
i seem to remember seen some v wings with hyberdrive i dont know if they ever got fitted with one
The empire should if kept the V wing around a little bit longer than they did.
They didn’t need to, the standard TIE/LN outclassed it completely
@@angelic_disappointment7889 In which ways?
@@Youda00008
Superior Maneuverability
Faster by a great magnitude
Far stronger laser cannons
Was known for being a cakewalk for maintenance
Far more efficient targeting and sensor systems
It has sensor jamming capabilities
Manual transmissions may be objectively inferior to some of the modern ATs, but subjectively it is much more satisfying.
Apparently it’s a good theft deterrent too
@GenerationTech use the force, Alan
Ah, the ARC-170 -- I had one of those in Star Wars Galaxies, and it was great fun to fly! Not the best in large fleet battles, but it rocked in 1:1 fights ^_^
Fun fact, if the sizes were similar, an X-wing dropping a 2000 lbs bomb on an ISD is the equivilent of a 3 foot long F-16 dropping a hand grenade on an Iowa class battleship.
Love your videos
Am I the only one that thinks Mando should have gotten an Arc 170 instead of the N1? Grogu would have a proper seat and the rear gunner section could have been repurposed for storage/bounty holding
lol the christopher walken/foo fighters SNL references at 6:45 had me dying
8:25 You forgot to speak about Z-90 headhunters (and Y wings)
Could you please make a video on the ecosystem of Dathomir
Most of the kills that were attributed to the Hurricane were the latter versions, that being said as a Brit I fully and completely believe that this country owes SO much to the Polish pilots that scored more kills than any other squadron (they used Hurricanes I believe?!). Not to mention all of the other pilots that forged this international air defence group... welp they're all heroes.
Allan, Thank you for keeping your channel exactly what it should be - Star Wars Lore. No time for politicizing, no time for grandstanding, no time for projecting. It is a purity of purpose and vision. I have been an avid fan for a while. Keep doing what you are doing.
Possible vid idea(idk if you have done it) but the “Status of Those Who Command SSD’s and other Warships larger than the ISD”
5:05 Fellow Hawker Hurricane enjoyer. Based.
V wing is a beast they should have kept it imagine a v wing mark 2 with stronger shields and a hyper drive that would be an x wing killer
Not to be confused with the Victor Wing of the Hutt Cartels', which is disturbingly effective even without plot armor. IMHO those are the ships the Empire should have been spamming out.
Foo FIGHTers! Yessir, well-played!
I really liked the Arc-170, shame it got put up against vulture droid's better little brother. Alao ironic that the x-wing(successor to the headhunter) is what gives the entire tie fighter line a run for its money.
Actually arc 170’s and v wings were very common up until 14bby. After that they were rare and considered elite vessels
Moral of the Story, Quat Drive Yards helped shape the galaxy
Starfighters of the Republic during TCW :
V-19 (22-20BBY) S1-3
Y Wing (22-19BBY) S1-7
ARC-170 (21-19BY) S3-7
Z-95 (20-19(?)BBY) S4-7
V Wing (19-??BBY) S7/8
~~
Jedi 1 (??-19BBY) S1-7
Jedi 2 (20-19BBY) S4-7
Suppositions:
Arc 170 = 21-19BBY
Z-95 = 20-18BBY
Nimbus 2k = 19-17BBY
TIE fighter = ~16BBY to 12ABY(?)
Because most of the others are bad at fighting the droid starfighters.
The V-wing is the only not expensive starfighter that is faster and more maneuverable then starfighters like the vulture or tri
I was incredibly disappointed to not see skulls and wishbones (Z-95s and Y-wings) in the prequal trilogies.
One reason the Verpine had an edge in weapons and warship development is that they were not very well-treated by the republic.Republic politics had always been very humano-centric, and the further away from human a species appeared, the less respect they got socially and politically in the core worlds. The Verpine home system of roche was also pretty far from the core worlds, and they had to defend themselves from frequent raids by pirates and minor bandit kingdoms, so they had plenty of wartime combat experience. The Republic may have had a nominal peace for a thousand years, but beyond the Republic's borders, millions of shadow-wars and border-wars and bush-wars simmered or raged constantly. The Ugor tried to wipe out the Squibs, the Huk invaded, genocided, and enslaved the Kaleesh for over a century, and when the Kaleesh finally fought back and kicked them off their worlds and retook their lost territory, the Huk petitioned the Republic for protection, and the Senate deployed the Jedi to punish the Kaleesh and force them to pay the Huk 'reparations'.
To be fair bugs make good engineers especialy for large projects and especialy hive species
I mean if u play the clone wars 2002 ps2 game,the very first mission is to destroy the anti orbital cannons surrounding the planet to allow the acclamators to basically land on geonosis unopposed by the anti air cannons
I understand standardized parts, and maybe a standardized interceptor/ police starfighter but completely getting rid of specialized starfighters wasn’t a good idea. The empire should have just upgraded the V-wing (A-wing?), the Y-wing, and the X-wing and focused it’s new designs on a stealth fighter.
Maybe they develop a remote piloted (not droid) V-wing and then use an A-wing as its long range interceptor.
Fill a Venator with long-range ships and short range drones and you’re set.
When Lego put out their V Wing I kinda went nuts and bought a bunch XD It's a really good design XD
Greetings, Generation Tech. I believe in democracy. I will vote for Generation Tech.
Stalin once said : "Quantity has it's quality of it's own". That's why the T-34 is not as good as the Panzer 4 but it's the sheer numbers that brought victory to the glorious Soviet Empire. So, replace everything with the V Wing is a logical choice and soon the V Wing would be replaced by the even cheaper TIE series, it's the statistics game.
arc-170 on steroids ftw !!!!!
And yet despite its obvious advantages over the tie fighter, the empire in its desire for a cost effective and unique type of military force, threw away a perfectly good fighter in the v wing and replaced it with the monstrously that was the tie fighter.
Who would win in a fight between a Cylon Raider and a vulture Droid
From what show are the first images?
The ARC absolutely still had a frontline combat role after Coruscant. Yes it was clearly not going to be the space superiority fighter the Republic wanted it to be, it was too big, too slow, too vulnerable to intentionally get into massive dogfights without support. That's the key, with support. With the V-Wing you had a clear space superiority fighter/interceptor that was well suited to go and mix it up with CIS fighters, however it lacked firepower, something the ARC does not. Therefore running a system not unlike actually the British in the Battle of Britain would have been pretty effective, V-Wings can go bounce the CIS fighters while the ARC tear up the bigger, heavier, slower CIS bombers. Just like how Spitfires and Hurricanes split up duties. On top of that you really could use the ARC in an anti-fighter role but in a support capacity. The V-Wings get into the dogfight while the ARCs can either hang out on the edges and carryout hit and run attacks on vulnerable enemies or carry out a head on charge right through the enemy formation using its shields and heavy forward firepower to disrupt enemy flight cohesion thus giving following V-Wings a major advantage.
Also, as mentioned it was a decent escort for Y-wings. The Vs would handle most CIS fighters but any that slip through to go after the Y-Wings could be picked up by the ARCs and keep them distracted while the Y-Wings do their thing. Also, because of the ARCs heavy firepower they could themselves carryout light anti ship duties on their own either in place of Ys or to augment a Y-wing strike package.
Really, the ARC would have been a very good strike fighter for the Republic that can support just about any kind of engagement the fleet finds it needs help with. Screening, reconnaissance, flex in to support V-wings gain space superiority, anti bomber duties, bomber escort, light anti-ship strikes, ground support. It wasn't going to be GREAT at any one thing (save reconnaissance of course) but if used properly - mostly just not thrown unsupported into swarms of tri-fighters than it would be pretty good at just about everything
The v wing is maybe my favorite single man star fighter
I understand why the in universe plot hole in not suposed to have attachment while being attached to republican .abd why going into places without republic jurristic and freeing the slaves in the name of republic would be an act of war . But how come Obi Wan could go Take of his personal relationships alone with the ecpection to fight ti free an overthrown leader.
But Ankien could just buy a simple Slave on
The Empire was offended because Mormon missionaries knew how to use the other starships.
I missed the head hunter before arc170
The Christopher Walken impression was unexpected but glorious
2:50 had me dying
Why are fighters named after letters that don't exist in that universe?
X-wing?
Y-wing?
A-wing?
V-wing?
The only one that has an explanation -- as far as I know -- is the Blade Wing bomber, shortened to _B-wing,_ but even that raises some questions.
While not wrong about the ARC Fighter. It was my main online in Battlefront III (EA) Mostly because the N-1 Starfighter was only usable in certain game modes. Not the main Starfighter assault mode. Just one of the many mistakes made by EA...
i LOVE the V-19
Something about a plane propeller being made out of wood, still terrifies me. 😕
Why is Plo Koon in a Delta 7 still in episode III? Ive never thought about it before but why was he not in a eta 2 actis jedi fighter?
put arc170 in an acclamaitor cruiser instead of a venator
change my mind
I think acronym of arc-170 show what best at. it was for long recon missions. it never meant to be short range superiority fighter. it was heavy fighter. the problem they over corrected and build basely as short range interceptor. Which was tie fighter. The x wing build of lesson learn for arc-170 to make superiority fighter that not too big or too small. superiority fighters in dogfight have advantage over interceptors. interceptor sacrifices armor to get speed. interceptors can never go on fight up dogfight with superiority fighter because superiority fighter can out tank it. how x wing can out tank a tie fighter.
Anyone else think the arc-170 would have been a better replacement ship for the mandalorian the naboo N-1 starfighter?
If the V-19 and Belbullab-22 can have a hyperdrive than a V-Wing can. When starting a rebel cell for every 1 Y-Wing I’m having 2 V-Wings
The GAR was mostly air cavalry, really.
ACR-170 was my main on battlefront 2 nasty dog fighter
I thought the TIE/Ln was a Space Superiority Fighter, since the TIE/In was the actual Interceptor.
Both of them are technically interceptors
One thing to remember, what won the Battle of Britain, was the Hawker Hurricane. Edit: Oh hey, addressed. Nice.
The Arc was mis-utilized to the extreme. Then again a lot of ships were mis-utilized.
V-wings were considerably faster than v-19s
Call me crazy but i remeber reading that the V-wing had shielding and a concussion missile launcher
ladies and gentlmen....the Foo faighters
(while i dont remember the guys name, I do know exactly who you are referring to
My allegiance is to the Sith, call me Darth Arcanus
Swear I saw you at the grocery store made weird eye contact and you walked away
The V-wing is cool