Thanks for the interview, Alex! I've had a ton of questions and comments on my channel since originally posting it.... Looks like we'll need to do a follow-up soon!
lol wut? are you trying to make some kind of a point? Anarcho-communists want to make stuff that people are interested in, too. We just don't want to make stuff purely for the benefit of 1% of the world's wealthiest people.
You can disagree with me but please don't try to make petty "gotcha" points that aren't points at all. If you live in a capitalist society you have to use capitalist products and systems, especially if you want non-leftists to receive your message. It's not a point to say 'If you're a COMMUNIST then why do you use MONEY?" The whole point is that under capitalism you have to have money to survive, which is what gives capitalists coercive power to exploit the working class. As for my trade and commerce abilities, I am a former capitalist and I ran many businesses and had several employees. I know how capitalistic "trade" works, and I know how exploitative it is, since I used to be the one doing the exploiting. There's nothing "voluntary" about saying: "Work for a capitalist and have your labor value stolen, or make no money and starve." That's the "choice" most workers on this planet are forced to make, especially in developing countries (which covers most of humanity).
Listen, your understanding of anarcho-communism is non-existent, You've just proven that with this weird and completely off-base "description" of my political views. If you want to have a real, good-faith conversation about this stuff I'm more than willing to do so. If you just want to force your position and tell *me* what *I* think, this is a waste of time for both of us.
Interesting video, Mr. Krasny. I was wondering if you could elaborate a bit more on your philosophy. You said we shouldn't kill animals because they feel pain. Does this also mean you wouldn't kill a fly, or a mouse that entered your house? Where do you draw the line?
If I said that, I misspoke, although I agree that if a creature CAN feel pain, then we should not impose pain on that creature. But it has less to do with pain and more to do with sentience. If it was just about pain, then simply knocking animals out before we killed them would satisfy my objected. But it isn't just about that. That being said, I certainly wouldn't kill a mouse. Because a mouse is not very different from a rabbit, a cat or a dog. If a dog entered my house, I certainly wouldn't kill it. I don't know what to say about insects I haven't looking into their level of intelligence. I can say I generally don't kill bugs unless they are attacking me.
You keep on bringing up morals, but where is your moral center? Are you a Christain? What absolute truth do you hold? You cannot say something is immoral if you are a moral relativist.
Again, where do you derive your morality. If you come up with your own morale principles, there's no logical reason they should extend to me, because they are relativistic. Without an absolute truth guiding them, you cannot call veganism a moral initiative.
I would say that, unless you are a sociopath, any reasonable ethical code would exclude animal exploitation. If we had a conversation about your personal moral code I am confident that you would agree that veganism is a moral initiative. Basically your personal moral code would have to be okay with discrimination, rape and murder to make it justifyable to eat meat.
No it is not a moral initiative, because God put animals on the planet for humans to use. The church and I agree that torturing animals or killing them for fun (not using them for resources) is immoral, but God's covenants with man throughout both the New and Old Testaments defines animals roles on this planet. I guess if you are not a Christian then you may not believe that (and that is your prerogative), but don't go shouting something is immoral when your morals are relatively defined by an imperfect human perspective on reality.
I don't think anyone is shouting, interesting choice of words. If the church and you agree that torturing and killing animals for fun is immoral, then why do you keep doing it? Are you making the claim that you are doing it for survival and not simply pleasure? If Jesus Christ was presented to choices of food: a basket of fruit, or a living lamb, which do you think Jesus Christ would choose to eat? That is a choice presented to you every day you decide what to eat. Do you think God intended for us to mass produce and exploit 50 billion land animals a day, which causes tremendous harm to the planet he made for us, and our own health not to mention the animals themselves? Adam and Eve, the two humans closest to god's image were vegans. In heaven after we are once again, closest to god the wolf and the lamb lay together (aka not predatory/prey relationship). It is only on earth when sin exists do we feel the compulsion to eat the flesh of living beings. Maybe god put animals here, and gave us a choice to see what we would do. We are failing his test every single day.
Weird thing is that I remember you as the person not trying to push veganism through our throats. Perhaps it's the edit job, but this seemed very forceful. Perhaps you are just tired of explaining it all in a more toned down manner. That said, any study about animal milk being bad for humans has been inconclusive, much like any study saying it's great without any negative side effects, so it's not something to quote. Also, regarding animal rape, shouldn't we be prosecuting all animals that have actually raped their counterparts and/or other animals? And it's correct that in most cases animals are treated like nazis treated many humans, but these humans were only treated as such because they were seen as animals or lower beings. Nothing against vegetarians and vegans. I personally have reduced my consumption of meat and animal biproducts quite a bit. I just don't like the tone. Instead, in the very end where you invite people to just try it out, whether or not once or twice a week, is what I'm all for. But the rest is too harsh and, also as you explained yourself, makes others defensive, as well as generally dislike vegans and their ideas.
Thanks for sharing your opinion. I am hopeful that after being confronted by my thoughts you will find the ability to get over your defense mechanism of being "offended" or "forced" by my message and actually think critically and come to your own conclusions.
Alex Krasny To be clear, I was not talking about myself as said. I just disliked the tone and found it really weird that you described exactly how meateaters react to such but still pursued in a forceful and demonizing tone of voice.
I described underlying reason why carnists get offended by vegans and it's because someone is suddenly telling them they have been doing something unethical their whole life... That can't possibly be! They must be wrong. Then after many hours of contemplation, many of us finally get it. I am trying to accelerate that process because the animals don't have time to wait.
Thanks for the interview, Alex! I've had a ton of questions and comments on my channel since originally posting it.... Looks like we'll need to do a follow-up soon!
I would love that
lol wut? are you trying to make some kind of a point?
Anarcho-communists want to make stuff that people are interested in, too. We just don't want to make stuff purely for the benefit of 1% of the world's wealthiest people.
You can disagree with me but please don't try to make petty "gotcha" points that aren't points at all.
If you live in a capitalist society you have to use capitalist products and systems, especially if you want non-leftists to receive your message. It's not a point to say 'If you're a COMMUNIST then why do you use MONEY?" The whole point is that under capitalism you have to have money to survive, which is what gives capitalists coercive power to exploit the working class.
As for my trade and commerce abilities, I am a former capitalist and I ran many businesses and had several employees. I know how capitalistic "trade" works, and I know how exploitative it is, since I used to be the one doing the exploiting.
There's nothing "voluntary" about saying: "Work for a capitalist and have your labor value stolen, or make no money and starve." That's the "choice" most workers on this planet are forced to make, especially in developing countries (which covers most of humanity).
Listen, your understanding of anarcho-communism is non-existent, You've just proven that with this weird and completely off-base "description" of my political views. If you want to have a real, good-faith conversation about this stuff I'm more than willing to do so. If you just want to force your position and tell *me* what *I* think, this is a waste of time for both of us.
Interesting video, Mr. Krasny. I was wondering if you could elaborate a bit more on your philosophy. You said we shouldn't kill animals because they feel pain. Does this also mean you wouldn't kill a fly, or a mouse that entered your house? Where do you draw the line?
If I said that, I misspoke, although I agree that if a creature CAN feel pain, then we should not impose pain on that creature. But it has less to do with pain and more to do with sentience. If it was just about pain, then simply knocking animals out before we killed them would satisfy my objected. But it isn't just about that.
That being said, I certainly wouldn't kill a mouse. Because a mouse is not very different from a rabbit, a cat or a dog. If a dog entered my house, I certainly wouldn't kill it. I don't know what to say about insects I haven't looking into their level of intelligence. I can say I generally don't kill bugs unless they are attacking me.
That Rocky Balboa shirt though... 👍🏻
💖💖💖💖💖💖
I'll raise my glass of whiskey to you sir!
Thanks Edward
You keep on bringing up morals, but where is your moral center? Are you a Christain? What absolute truth do you hold? You cannot say something is immoral if you are a moral relativist.
How about "treat others how you want to be treated?" You don't need a higher power to deliver morality.
Again, where do you derive your morality. If you come up with your own morale principles, there's no logical reason they should extend to me, because they are relativistic. Without an absolute truth guiding them, you cannot call veganism a moral initiative.
I would say that, unless you are a sociopath, any reasonable ethical code would exclude animal exploitation. If we had a conversation about your personal moral code I am confident that you would agree that veganism is a moral initiative.
Basically your personal moral code would have to be okay with discrimination, rape and murder to make it justifyable to eat meat.
No it is not a moral initiative, because God put animals on the planet for humans to use. The church and I agree that torturing animals or killing them for fun (not using them for resources) is immoral, but God's covenants with man throughout both the New and Old Testaments defines animals roles on this planet.
I guess if you are not a Christian then you may not believe that (and that is your prerogative), but don't go shouting something is immoral when your morals are relatively defined by an imperfect human perspective on reality.
I don't think anyone is shouting, interesting choice of words. If the church and you agree that torturing and killing animals for fun is immoral, then why do you keep doing it? Are you making the claim that you are doing it for survival and not simply pleasure? If Jesus Christ was presented to choices of food: a basket of fruit, or a living lamb, which do you think Jesus Christ would choose to eat? That is a choice presented to you every day you decide what to eat. Do you think God intended for us to mass produce and exploit 50 billion land animals a day, which causes tremendous harm to the planet he made for us, and our own health not to mention the animals themselves?
Adam and Eve, the two humans closest to god's image were vegans. In heaven after we are once again, closest to god the wolf and the lamb lay together (aka not predatory/prey relationship). It is only on earth when sin exists do we feel the compulsion to eat the flesh of living beings.
Maybe god put animals here, and gave us a choice to see what we would do. We are failing his test every single day.
Weird thing is that I remember you as the person not trying to push veganism through our throats. Perhaps it's the edit job, but this seemed very forceful. Perhaps you are just tired of explaining it all in a more toned down manner.
That said, any study about animal milk being bad for humans has been inconclusive, much like any study saying it's great without any negative side effects, so it's not something to quote. Also, regarding animal rape, shouldn't we be prosecuting all animals that have actually raped their counterparts and/or other animals? And it's correct that in most cases animals are treated like nazis treated many humans, but these humans were only treated as such because they were seen as animals or lower beings.
Nothing against vegetarians and vegans. I personally have reduced my consumption of meat and animal biproducts quite a bit. I just don't like the tone. Instead, in the very end where you invite people to just try it out, whether or not once or twice a week, is what I'm all for. But the rest is too harsh and, also as you explained yourself, makes others defensive, as well as generally dislike vegans and their ideas.
Thanks for sharing your opinion. I am hopeful that after being confronted by my thoughts you will find the ability to get over your defense mechanism of being "offended" or "forced" by my message and actually think critically and come to your own conclusions.
Alex Krasny To be clear, I was not talking about myself as said. I just disliked the tone and found it really weird that you described exactly how meateaters react to such but still pursued in a forceful and demonizing tone of voice.
I described underlying reason why carnists get offended by vegans and it's because someone is suddenly telling them they have been doing something unethical their whole life... That can't possibly be! They must be wrong.
Then after many hours of contemplation, many of us finally get it. I am trying to accelerate that process because the animals don't have time to wait.
I’ll watch my tone when non-vegans stop killing animals for no reason.
oh boo who like you're the victim, get fucked animal abuser