I'm going to do a comprehensive breakdown of everything discussed in the video. The Falcon ruling: It is worded that way to be a triggered ability with a defined trigger moment prior to when Han's ability triggers. It makes perfect sense if you actually read the rules, since there's nothing that occurs in the Regroup Phase after resources ready. Keep Fighting: once again this is addressed by the rules. It references current power. Force Throw/Dengar: Not really rulings, the cards are quite clear how they work when read. It's important to note that there are no "bounty tokens" there are non-token upgrade cards that give attached unit the bounty keyword with various rewards. Shields: I believe literally every single thing mentioned is specifically called out in the Tokens section of the Comprehensive Rules in the section labelled Shield (7.6) No Good to Me Dead: this is a lot to break down. First I will point out that the do as much as you can rule does not interact with the permissive vs restrictive abilities section here because there is currently no ability applying to the card. A restrictive ability is when a card says "cannot do X" such as when NGTMD says the unit cannot ready. A permissive ability would be something like Keep Fighting that readys a unit. In this instance you cannot ready the unit chosen for NGTMD with Keep Fighting, as the restriction takes precedence. Still in regards to NGTMD: there are a large number of Magic cards that state "Tap target creatire, that creature doesn't untap during it's controller's next untap step" All of these cards can target tapped creatures and they will not untap (see Gatherer rulings for Abominable Treefolk, Chill of the Grave, Chillbringer, Crippling Chill, Frost Lynx, Frost Titan, and dozens of others) Traitorous: the important thing to note is that Traitorous only references the unit's owner taking control of it. Once Superlaser Technician goes to the resource zone it is no longer a unit and so control does not revert to the owner with Traitorous's trigger
Thank you for taking the time to watch us and then to write this out. I’ll pin it to the top for others to read (though sad to hear we’ve been getting MtG wrong all these years too. We’re just two old idiots 😂)
Just to reference the specific rules for each topic discussed: Falcon : Rule 5.5.1-2. This goes through the timing of the actions in the regroup phase. A good way to remember the order is you always ready last to signify you are ready to start the action phase. Falcon action happens at 5.5.1-E where start of Action phase would follow 5.5.2. Keep fighting : Rule 1.10.2 "Units have power values, indicated by a number in a red box in the bottom left corner of the card art. In rules text, this may be referred to a card’s “printed power.” " Has to say printed power for it to reference the printed power vs current power Force throw: 8.5.3 "If instructed to “choose a player,” either player in the game can be chosen, including the player resolving the ability." Dengar: Key term is "When you play an upgrade". Rule 6.2.0.B "In order to play a card, a player must have a card in their hand or must be resolving an ability that allows them to play a card from another zone. The player must be able to pay resources equal to the card’s cost, unless otherwise specified." The upgrade must be played from hand to trigger the effect. So wing leader's 2 exp tokens would not trigger the effect but an upgrade card would. Shields: Rules 3.6.9 multiple stacks of an upgrade. 3.6.12 token upgrade vs upgrade and 3.7.6 shield token upgrade Overwhelming Barrage: Rule 1.9.8 "All damage dealt by a single ability is dealt simultaneously." No Good to Me Dead: Rule 6.2.2.C. "An event can be played even if some or none of its abilities would change the game state." Rule 6.2.0.3.C. An event can be played even if some or none of its abilities would change the game state."A player may play a card whose ability has no effect, so long as the act of paying the costs for and playing the card changes the game state (e.g. the card is moved to a different zone)." By going to the discard the game state is charged. Rule 6.2.5.C "An event can be played even if some or none of its abilities would change the game state." Multiple rules that say you can still play it even if it doesn't do anything because there is a game state change. Also Rule 3.3.5 states "An event ability must be resolved as completely as possible. Any part of the event ability that cannot be resolved is ignored. A player may play an event even if none of that event’s ability can be resolved" So you ignore the exhaust and apply the rest. Finally Rule 1.5.4.F "An exhausted card can be chosen for a exhausting effect, but the chosen card does not change orientation and is not considered to have been exhausted for the purpose of “If you do” effects." Traitorous: This falls under rule 8.28. However for upgrades you play on the opponents side Rule 10.2 states "If a player plays an upgrade onto an enemy unit, that player still controls that upgrade, but that upgrade is not in their play area."
I don't know about the viewers, but at least for me, this was extremely fun! Thanks once again for inviting me, you guys are amazing ;) Now I need to go work on how to deal with stage fright 😅
We loved having you on and it was really good fun. I didn’t notice any stage fright but don’t worry, it’s not like we here at OBNT are that professional
I would think that with No Good it would specify “this card can only be played on a ready unit” if you were prohibited from playing it on a previously exhausted unit. The second part of the card doesn’t seem to care whether the target was already exhausted, or whether No Good caused the exhaustion.
@@oldboysnewtoysI don’t think OP is saying it was poorly worded, just pointing out how the card would be worded if exhausting a ready unit mattered. I think No Good to Me Dead makes sense based on how all other cards work in the set.
I think just forgetting how I’ve been playing other games for the last 30 years. It might have ‘unique’ wording but it’s definitely one of our favourites
Just for clarification on the No Good to Me Dead: The comprehensive rules specifically state the following (in section 1.5.4f): "A ready card can be chosen for a readying effect, but the chosen card does not change orientation and is not considered to have been readied for the purpose of “If you do” effects. An exhausted card can be chosen for a exhausting effect, but the chosen card does not change orientation and is not considered to have been exhausted for the purpose of “If you do” effects."
Thank you for taking the time to comment and watch. Now, imagine a world where the exhaust an exhausted card counts as a double negative and you could ready them?
Jeff, it sounds like you misunderstood the restriction vs permission thing. What they are saying is that if you have two different things where one permits you to do X and the other restricts you from doing X, the restriction takes precedence. For example, if you play no good to me dead on a unit it gets a restriction that says it can’t ready. If someone then plays Keep fighting on that unit (let’s assume it has 3 power) then we have one effect that says it readies and another that says it can’t. Then the restriction from no good to me dead is what goes and the Keep fighting doesn’t work.
For the No Good argument, in Star Wars Unlimited, you can play cards even with no targets and fizzle your own effects. For instance, you can play Takedown on an empty board and nothing will happen. The only restrictions on cards is the cost, so you will always resolve a card as much as you can once played
@EthanMerbaum Unfortunately, with the way Force Choke reads, that wouldn't work. It says "that unit's controller draws a card" so if they don't control a non-vehicle to deal damage to, then it just completely fizzles
i did download force table. it links to swudb or some such to build deck with. that link has a link marked "full rules." ( i may be paraphrasing.) so i went there... there are multplayer rules for regular "premiere" format, not just twin suns. i have seen ZERO mention of this anywhere else. what gives? plus, plus, PLUS! in multiplayer formats there's this rule that if you can play a card you HAVE to play that card or pass your turn for the phase, right? so wouldn't the discussed play mechanic of "no good to me dead" create a loophole where as long as one has the resources to play a card, one then MUST play that card even if it has only a semi (or non) valid target, allowing/forcing players to dump cards on the board to potentially much lessened effect but allowing them to stay in the rotation of that particular phase. i.e. i can play "medal ceremony" even if i have no rebels in play.
Can someone please explain to me CONTROL and IN PLAY when it comes to Leader cards.Are you in CONTROL of your leader if they have not been brought into play or have already been brought into play and defeated? Is a leader card in play throughout the whole game or only when you bring them out?
Your leader is under your control but not considered in play (as far as card abilities are concerned) while not deployed. Once deployed he is under your control AND considered a unit in play (thus, can be targeted by abilities unless they specify they can only target non-leader units). Once the leader unit is defeated it returns to its owner side/control and reverts to its initial state.
Thank you! So if I am playing Vader as my leader,I always have a Force unit to use if I am playing Force Throw regardless if Vader is in play or not,Correct?
Thank you for watching and commenting. The easiest way to remember in play is you’ll need the ‘unit’ key word showing on the card as units are in play. It’s on the top left of the leader card
@@Oneidos_Gaming This is partially correct. Leaders are always in play. They begin in the base zone (an in play area) and can be deployed (not played) to the ground arena (none currently deploy to space). This matters in particular for Boba Fett: Disintegrator whose ability deals 3 damage to an exhausted unit that didn't enter play this round. Because the leader is in play at the start of the game Boba Fett's ability will always deal the 3 damage when he attacks an exhausted leader unit.
Thank you for these clarifications, they are really helpful. I have a rather silly question, but if you have a unit with 3 shield per se and they are hit with a person with "Saboteur" skill, does that remove just one shield or all shields?
I think yes! Attacking requires the unit to be ready so no, you actually can't attack with the exhausted unit, BUT comprehensive rules state: 7.4.4. When resolving an event ability, resolve as much of the ability as possible and ignore anything that cannot resolve. A player may pay the cost of an event and play it even if none of that event’s ability would change the game state. Damn, this was an awesome question/scenario, I might actually do a short video on this in the near future.
IDK if thats right about Traitorous. It depends on when the upgrade come off when the unit is defeted. If the upgrade is removed when defeted then I dont think you can keep the card. I havent read all of the comprehensive rules, but to me it seems like the upgrade is removed when defeted, so you would not be controling the SLT unit to take it as a resource. ..but I'm not 100% sure I'm right.
Thanks for watching and commenting 👍 The way we read it, the on defeat and when defeated effects happen at the same but as the controlling player, you get to decide the order in which they happen so (you should) trigger the when defeated effect of the unit before resolving the Traitorous card effect. We think…..🤔
@oldboysnewtoys yea, I can see that, too. This is the issue with some of the cards and why they have judges at tournaments, lol 😆. Maybe next FFL stream I watch. I'll toss this scenario at em and see what the devs say. As someone who is usually heroic, being able to steal an SLT would be awesome, but I hate getting rules wrong. I agreed with you guys on everything else you said. Great content, BTW
Doing a bit of "research" on this, I found this in the comprehensive rules: 8.28.2. When a unit is defeated, it is placed in its owner’s discard pile, but any “When Defeated” abilities are resolved by whichever player controlled it when it was defeated. So since it is defeated before the upgrade gets detached, it's the player controlling and not the owner that gets the resource.
The odd thing with this game is unlearning everything I know and love about all other CCG’s I’ve ever played over the past 30 years but that also makes it everything we love about it. But we really enough the community more ❤️
ok that Traitor ruling is insane and according to their own rule book ...not possible 1) "If a unit ever has damage on it greater than or equal to its HP, it's "DEFEATED" and put into it's OWNER's discard pile - so are you telling me that if i traitor someone's Boba im now the owner of that card? NO you are not the owner - just the controller while its in play. 2)"WHEN DEFEATED" only triggers after the card is defeated - The card is in the discard pile (of the owner)when the ability resolves. these 2 points are both in the rule book and are completely broken if "traitor" gets the ability "when defeated" - which leads me to BLACK ONE - if this unit is in your resource row and is "defeated" (like with Leader HAN) then once the card is defeated it is turned face up as it enters the discard pile its now face up "When defeated text should trigger but doesn't according to judges here..... FFG are creating a massive L if they don't clear up the written text and explain point by point when and how things resolve. WHY use the words "Defeated" in Hans ability if you weren't expecting the text to trigger when entering the discard pile.... yes cards face down have no texts, then why does it say "turn the card face up, then put into the discard pile" - then have "WHEN DEFEATED" abilities only trigger once in the discard pile?
Keep in mind that when used as resources, cards are essentially resource tokens, they don't maintain their abilities. That said, any when defeated abilities do not trigger if that resource token is removed from the game.
Ola - quick question thrawn ability to reveal top card can you reveal same card twice ? Eg as leader pays resources and reveals top of his deck then comes out and attacks can reveal top card of his deck again ? I assume no as can’t reveal same card more than once ?
I'd say you can. It's pretty much the same for all leaders: you can use their leader side ability, deploy (so they come into play as ready units) and attack with them (triggering on attack abilities) The ability is agnostic to what card is on top of your/your opponents deck.
Yes he can as both actions are separate ones. One off the lesser side and one off the unit leader side For example, you can use Sabine’s ability to attack both bases for 1 and then one you next action, you can put her into play as a unit and then when she attacks, she gets her in attack action to do another 1 damage to a base
No good to me dead can't work on an exhausted unit. The reason why is that the second line references the unit from the first line. But if you don't exhaust a unit, it has no reference point to apply the second line to. Imagine, it said "Defeat a unit. That unit is returned to it's owners hand." Can you target a unit in the grave and say "it's already defeated but I get to return it to hand because I'm ignoring the first part of the effect..." like... what!? And it's even weirder when there are viable targets to choose from, like there sometimes are with NGTMD.
Mr Ade here. I agree with you, the card is worded so badly but I was shot down on every forum and posts so we now just play it that you can play it on an exhausted unit as that’s how everyone else is playing it (and it makes it a lot more powerful 👍)
Incorrect. The comprehensive rules say you can exhaust an already exhausted or ready an already ready unit. The only time it wont work is if the card also has the statement of “if you do “ …. These effects wont work. So ngtmd will work on an already exhausted unit and keep them exhausted the next round
@@kujobro exactly! As also stated on vid, I like to think of it like you actually do exhaust the unit (even though it's already exhausted), so the first part of the "condition" is actually fulfilled.
Thank you. This is exactly why Kris was so useful and why we wanted to cover the card. 30 years of playing MtG where you have to play each part of the card in order means for some confusing times
@kujobro wow I just checked and you are indeed correct. I'm not a fan of this ruling as it goes against common sense imho but if that's the way they want it played, who am I to judge?
![Answering the Most Common SET 2 Rules Questions! [Star Wars Unlimited]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/GJZUHQ_Mzus/mqdefault.jpg)
I'm going to do a comprehensive breakdown of everything discussed in the video.
The Falcon ruling: It is worded that way to be a triggered ability with a defined trigger moment prior to when Han's ability triggers. It makes perfect sense if you actually read the rules, since there's nothing that occurs in the Regroup Phase after resources ready.
Keep Fighting: once again this is addressed by the rules. It references current power.
Force Throw/Dengar: Not really rulings, the cards are quite clear how they work when read. It's important to note that there are no "bounty tokens" there are non-token upgrade cards that give attached unit the bounty keyword with various rewards.
Shields: I believe literally every single thing mentioned is specifically called out in the Tokens section of the Comprehensive Rules in the section labelled Shield (7.6)
No Good to Me Dead: this is a lot to break down. First I will point out that the do as much as you can rule does not interact with the permissive vs restrictive abilities section here because there is currently no ability applying to the card. A restrictive ability is when a card says "cannot do X" such as when NGTMD says the unit cannot ready. A permissive ability would be something like Keep Fighting that readys a unit. In this instance you cannot ready the unit chosen for NGTMD with Keep Fighting, as the restriction takes precedence.
Still in regards to NGTMD: there are a large number of Magic cards that state "Tap target creatire, that creature doesn't untap during it's controller's next untap step" All of these cards can target tapped creatures and they will not untap (see Gatherer rulings for Abominable Treefolk, Chill of the Grave, Chillbringer, Crippling Chill, Frost Lynx, Frost Titan, and dozens of others)
Traitorous: the important thing to note is that Traitorous only references the unit's owner taking control of it. Once Superlaser Technician goes to the resource zone it is no longer a unit and so control does not revert to the owner with Traitorous's trigger
This must be the longest and most to-the-point comment I've ever read!
Thank you for taking the time to watch us and then to write this out. I’ll pin it to the top for others to read (though sad to hear we’ve been getting MtG wrong all these years too. We’re just two old idiots 😂)
Just to reference the specific rules for each topic discussed:
Falcon : Rule 5.5.1-2. This goes through the timing of the actions in the regroup phase. A good way to remember the order is you always ready last to signify you are ready to start the action phase. Falcon action happens at 5.5.1-E where start of Action phase would follow 5.5.2.
Keep fighting : Rule 1.10.2 "Units have power values, indicated by a number in a red box in the bottom left corner of the card art. In rules text, this may be referred to a card’s “printed power.” " Has to say printed power for it to reference the printed power vs current power
Force throw: 8.5.3 "If instructed to “choose a player,” either player in the game can be chosen, including the player resolving the ability."
Dengar: Key term is "When you play an upgrade". Rule 6.2.0.B "In order to play a card, a player must have a card in their hand or must be resolving an ability that allows them to play a card from another zone. The player must be able to pay resources equal to the card’s cost, unless otherwise specified." The upgrade must be played from hand to trigger the effect. So wing leader's 2 exp tokens would not trigger the effect but an upgrade card would.
Shields: Rules 3.6.9 multiple stacks of an upgrade. 3.6.12 token upgrade vs upgrade and 3.7.6 shield token upgrade
Overwhelming Barrage: Rule 1.9.8 "All damage dealt by a single ability is dealt simultaneously."
No Good to Me Dead: Rule 6.2.2.C. "An event can be played even if some or none of its abilities would change the game state." Rule 6.2.0.3.C. An event can be played even if some or none of its abilities would change the game state."A player may play a card whose ability has no effect, so long as the act of paying the costs for and playing the card changes the game state (e.g. the card is moved to a different zone)." By going to the discard the game state is charged. Rule 6.2.5.C "An event can be played even if some or none of its abilities would change the game state." Multiple rules that say you can still play it even if it doesn't do anything because there is a game state change. Also Rule 3.3.5 states "An event ability must be resolved as completely as possible. Any part of the event ability that cannot be resolved is ignored. A player may play an event even if none of that event’s ability can be resolved" So you ignore the exhaust and apply the rest. Finally Rule 1.5.4.F "An exhausted card can be chosen for a exhausting effect, but the chosen card does not change orientation and is not considered to have been exhausted for the purpose of “If you do” effects."
Traitorous: This falls under rule 8.28. However for upgrades you play on the opponents side Rule 10.2 states "If a player plays an upgrade onto an enemy unit, that player still controls that upgrade, but that upgrade is not in their play area."
Amazing, that you for doing this
I don't know about the viewers, but at least for me, this was extremely fun! Thanks once again for inviting me, you guys are amazing ;)
Now I need to go work on how to deal with stage fright 😅
We loved having you on and it was really good fun. I didn’t notice any stage fright but don’t worry, it’s not like we here at OBNT are that professional
You did great mate and I can say I am a fan of your beard as well.
@@jeffdutton3570 "Next up on OBNT: Tips for fast beard growth!"
😂😂
Maybe we’ll get sponsorship from oil companies 😉
At last he showed his face! All it took was two months and another (great) channel to invite him! This was a fun watch!
Also the hands! Don't forget the hands! 😂
Thank you for the great comment. Yes it was great to see Kris’ face and yes his channel is amazing 👍
I would think that with No Good it would specify “this card can only be played on a ready unit” if you were prohibited from playing it on a previously exhausted unit. The second part of the card doesn’t seem to care whether the target was already exhausted, or whether No Good caused the exhaustion.
Yeah, that’s exactly how we play it too. Agreed, it could have been worded so much better
@@oldboysnewtoysI don’t think OP is saying it was poorly worded, just pointing out how the card would be worded if exhausting a ready unit mattered. I think No Good to Me Dead makes sense based on how all other cards work in the set.
I think just forgetting how I’ve been playing other games for the last 30 years. It might have ‘unique’ wording but it’s definitely one of our favourites
Looking for the next episode! Very good and informative, thank you!
Thank you for watching and commenting. Looks like we will be doing more of these 👍
Just for clarification on the No Good to Me Dead:
The comprehensive rules specifically state the following (in section 1.5.4f): "A ready card can be chosen for a readying effect, but the chosen card does not change orientation and is not considered to have been readied for the purpose of “If you do” effects. An exhausted card can be chosen for a exhausting effect, but the chosen card does not change orientation and is not considered to have been exhausted for the purpose of “If you do” effects."
Thank you for taking the time to comment and watch.
Now, imagine a world where the exhaust an exhausted card counts as a double negative and you could ready them?
@@oldboysnewtoys Please, no Boolean logic here. I've got enough of that at work :P
😂
Jeff, it sounds like you misunderstood the restriction vs permission thing. What they are saying is that if you have two different things where one permits you to do X and the other restricts you from doing X, the restriction takes precedence.
For example, if you play no good to me dead on a unit it gets a restriction that says it can’t ready. If someone then plays Keep fighting on that unit (let’s assume it has 3 power) then we have one effect that says it readies and another that says it can’t. Then the restriction from no good to me dead is what goes and the Keep fighting doesn’t work.
I'm going to use this answer the next time someone asks me about restricition vs permission 😄
Ah! That makes sense. Thank you for this comment. @Oneidos_Gaming we can reference this in the next rules video 😁
For the No Good argument, in Star Wars Unlimited, you can play cards even with no targets and fizzle your own effects. For instance, you can play Takedown on an empty board and nothing will happen. The only restrictions on cards is the cost, so you will always resolve a card as much as you can once played
That's bonkers 🤣 But.... if that's the rules, then that's what we play 🤔 Thanks for taking the time to comment 👍
@@oldboysnewtoys if you can no good to me dead on a exhausted unit then you should be able to force choke a vehicle to force the draw
@EthanMerbaum Unfortunately, with the way Force Choke reads, that wouldn't work. It says "that unit's controller draws a card" so if they don't control a non-vehicle to deal damage to, then it just completely fizzles
@@kladdis3419 actually I found the rule for no good to me dead. 1.5.4.f and I stand corrected 8.5.1 prevents force choke
Thanks for for helping Clarifying the rules 👍
i did download force table. it links to swudb or some such to build deck with. that link has a link marked "full rules." ( i may be paraphrasing.) so i went there...
there are multplayer rules for regular "premiere" format, not just twin suns.
i have seen ZERO mention of this anywhere else.
what gives?
plus, plus, PLUS!
in multiplayer formats there's this rule that if you can play a card you HAVE to play that card or pass your turn for the phase, right?
so wouldn't the discussed play mechanic of "no good to me dead" create a loophole where as long as one has the resources to play a card, one then MUST play that card even if it has only a semi (or non) valid target, allowing/forcing players to dump cards on the board to potentially much lessened effect but allowing them to stay in the rotation of that particular phase. i.e. i can play "medal ceremony" even if i have no rebels in play.
That’s correct. In multiplayer you cannot take the pass action and then come back in. You take the counter action that ends your turn and that’s it
Can someone please explain to me CONTROL and IN PLAY when it comes to Leader cards.Are you in CONTROL of your leader if they have not been brought into play or have already been brought into play and defeated? Is a leader card in play throughout the whole game or only when you bring them out?
Your leader is under your control but not considered in play (as far as card abilities are concerned) while not deployed. Once deployed he is under your control AND considered a unit in play (thus, can be targeted by abilities unless they specify they can only target non-leader units).
Once the leader unit is defeated it returns to its owner side/control and reverts to its initial state.
Thank you! So if I am playing Vader as my leader,I always have a Force unit to use if I am playing Force Throw regardless if Vader is in play or not,Correct?
@@darrellwood1594 Sadly, no. He's considered a unit only when he's deployed.
Thank you for watching and commenting. The easiest way to remember in play is you’ll need the ‘unit’ key word showing on the card as units are in play. It’s on the top left of the leader card
@@Oneidos_Gaming This is partially correct. Leaders are always in play. They begin in the base zone (an in play area) and can be deployed (not played) to the ground arena (none currently deploy to space). This matters in particular for Boba Fett: Disintegrator whose ability deals 3 damage to an exhausted unit that didn't enter play this round. Because the leader is in play at the start of the game Boba Fett's ability will always deal the 3 damage when he attacks an exhausted leader unit.
Thank you for these clarifications, they are really helpful. I have a rather silly question, but if you have a unit with 3 shield per se and they are hit with a person with "Saboteur" skill, does that remove just one shield or all shields?
Thank you for watching and commenting 👍 Yes saboteur defeats all shields in a go. It’s an amazing counter to Luke.
No such thing as silly questions! Saboteur does indeed defeat all shield tokens on the defender. I know, it sounds (and probably is) a bit OP :P
Never OP, just powerful in the right circumstance 😉
@@Oneidos_Gaming Thank you for that! I appreciate you taking the time to clarify that for me!
@@oldboysnewtoys Thank you for that! I appreciate you clarifying that for me!
26:27 If you have a Bossk in play, can you play Surprise Strike for 2 damage on a Unit that is exhausted?
I think yes! Attacking requires the unit to be ready so no, you actually can't attack with the exhausted unit, BUT comprehensive rules state:
7.4.4. When resolving an event ability, resolve as much of the ability as possible and ignore anything that cannot resolve. A player may pay the cost of an event and play it even if none of that event’s ability would change the game state.
Damn, this was an awesome question/scenario, I might actually do a short video on this in the near future.
I would agree with this. Madness though as I never even thought of doing things like this. Looks like we need to do soon follow up videos
IDK if thats right about Traitorous. It depends on when the upgrade come off when the unit is defeted. If the upgrade is removed when defeted then I dont think you can keep the card. I havent read all of the comprehensive rules, but to me it seems like the upgrade is removed when defeted, so you would not be controling the SLT unit to take it as a resource. ..but I'm not 100% sure I'm right.
Thanks for watching and commenting 👍 The way we read it, the on defeat and when defeated effects happen at the same but as the controlling player, you get to decide the order in which they happen so (you should) trigger the when defeated effect of the unit before resolving the Traitorous card effect. We think…..🤔
@oldboysnewtoys yea, I can see that, too. This is the issue with some of the cards and why they have judges at tournaments, lol 😆. Maybe next FFL stream I watch. I'll toss this scenario at em and see what the devs say. As someone who is usually heroic, being able to steal an SLT would be awesome, but I hate getting rules wrong. I agreed with you guys on everything else you said. Great content, BTW
Doing a bit of "research" on this, I found this in the comprehensive rules:
8.28.2. When a unit is defeated, it is placed in its owner’s discard pile, but any “When Defeated” abilities are resolved by whichever player controlled it when it was defeated.
So since it is defeated before the upgrade gets detached, it's the player controlling and not the owner that gets the resource.
The odd thing with this game is unlearning everything I know and love about all other CCG’s I’ve ever played over the past 30 years but that also makes it everything we love about it. But we really enough the community more ❤️
That’s exactly what I knew 😉
ok that Traitor ruling is insane and according to their own rule book ...not possible
1) "If a unit ever has damage on it greater than or equal to its HP, it's "DEFEATED" and put into it's OWNER's discard pile - so are you telling me that if i traitor someone's Boba im now the owner of that card? NO you are not the owner - just the controller while its in play.
2)"WHEN DEFEATED" only triggers after the card is defeated - The card is in the discard pile (of the owner)when the ability resolves.
these 2 points are both in the rule book and are completely broken if "traitor" gets the ability "when defeated" - which leads me to
BLACK ONE - if this unit is in your resource row and is "defeated" (like with Leader HAN) then once the card is defeated it is turned face up as it enters the discard pile its now face up "When defeated text should trigger but doesn't according to judges here.....
FFG are creating a massive L if they don't clear up the written text and explain point by point when and how things resolve.
WHY use the words "Defeated" in Hans ability if you weren't expecting the text to trigger when entering the discard pile.... yes cards face down have no texts, then why does it say "turn the card face up, then put into the discard pile" - then have "WHEN DEFEATED" abilities only trigger once in the discard pile?
Keep in mind that when used as resources, cards are essentially resource tokens, they don't maintain their abilities. That said, any when defeated abilities do not trigger if that resource token is removed from the game.
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Ola - quick question thrawn ability to reveal top card can you reveal same card twice ? Eg as leader pays resources and reveals top of his deck then comes out and attacks can reveal top card of his deck again ? I assume no as can’t reveal same card more than once ?
I'd say you can. It's pretty much the same for all leaders: you can use their leader side ability, deploy (so they come into play as ready units) and attack with them (triggering on attack abilities)
The ability is agnostic to what card is on top of your/your opponents deck.
Yes he can as both actions are separate ones. One off the lesser side and one off the unit leader side
For example, you can use Sabine’s ability to attack both bases for 1 and then one you next action, you can put her into play as a unit and then when she attacks, she gets her in attack action to do another 1 damage to a base
No good to me dead can't work on an exhausted unit. The reason why is that the second line references the unit from the first line. But if you don't exhaust a unit, it has no reference point to apply the second line to.
Imagine, it said "Defeat a unit. That unit is returned to it's owners hand." Can you target a unit in the grave and say "it's already defeated but I get to return it to hand because I'm ignoring the first part of the effect..." like... what!? And it's even weirder when there are viable targets to choose from, like there sometimes are with NGTMD.
Mr Ade here. I agree with you, the card is worded so badly but I was shot down on every forum and posts so we now just play it that you can play it on an exhausted unit as that’s how everyone else is playing it (and it makes it a lot more powerful 👍)
Incorrect. The comprehensive rules say you can exhaust an already exhausted or ready an already ready unit.
The only time it wont work is if the card also has the statement of “if you do “ …. These effects wont work.
So ngtmd will work on an already exhausted unit and keep them exhausted the next round
@@kujobro exactly!
As also stated on vid, I like to think of it like you actually do exhaust the unit (even though it's already exhausted), so the first part of the "condition" is actually fulfilled.
Thank you. This is exactly why Kris was so useful and why we wanted to cover the card. 30 years of playing MtG where you have to play each part of the card in order means for some confusing times
@kujobro wow I just checked and you are indeed correct. I'm not a fan of this ruling as it goes against common sense imho but if that's the way they want it played, who am I to judge?
What's the website you were using?
Where we showed the cards? It’s this one starwarsunlimited.com
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