Brace Height Affects on Arrow Spine and Speed
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- Опубліковано 22 січ 2019
- In Part 2 of our brace height tuning videos, we look at the effect of brace height on Arrow spine and speed. Some interesting results for sure. If you’ve done Braeside tuning I’d love to hear your comments or questions below. Also if you’d like to check out a Bear Archery Grizzly for yourself, click the Amazon affiliate link below. If you like what you see, please like share and subscribe.
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Very interesting topic! Lower BH means longer power stroke and more energy, so why did the arrows react stiffer. Here's the tricky part - the lower the BH, the more "off centre" the bow. The further from centre cut the riser is, the weaker spine you need. Great topic!
Perfect test and explanation - it clarified some things for me. Now I understand why i cant micro tune as expected.
I got smarter today - thanks 😊
Best video on brace height ever! Thank you!
Great vid. Thanks for sharing this info. That is one HEAVY arrow!
For me this was a quick and clear explanation - thank you
New Subscriber! Part 2 was great. I have the same bow and fine tuning now with it. Looking forward to watching more of your videos. Great job!
At last! Some clear explanation with demonstration!
This was a very informative and well thought out video. Something I’ve always wondered. Thank you for this.
You just closed a knowledge loop for me! Great explanation on a counter intuitive tuning topic. I had it backwards because of the speed component. Thank You Sir
Awesome proof of techniques! Great info and presentation.
This is just what I needed. A well explained video for a noob like me.
Keep up the good work :)
Helps a lot. Thank You!!!
You did good there Fella >> Thank You
That is smooth !!!
Excellent
Throwing out the 132 fps shot on the 8.5" BH, and the 135 fps shot on the 7.5" BH, the average speeds are 135.7 fps and 139.7 fps, respectively. That's a lot of speed gain when you're talking about a heavy 585 grain arrow. The difference in kinetic energy is 6%, and that's also significant. So you get a more powerful bow while shooting a lighter poundage on the fingers. That's a win-win, especially in a hunting situation.
And I wish I had more scientific testing protocols and equipment like Cody Greenwood at Tradlab. I’ve asked him to do this test as well. I need to get on him again.
Very cool...
As long as you keep the brace height within the manufacturers recommendations there will be very little actual difference in arrow performance. But a higher brace height will make it more comfortable to shoot and a bit quieter.
longer brace heights will have more accuracy but less speed. Thats why you see all professional target bows have higher brace heights vs hunting bows that want more speed that have lower brace heights.
good lord look at the size of those silencers
Yeah they were quite big back then lol. I use a much smaller set of cat whiskers now. ua-cam.com/video/qFfMF2FDgw0/v-deo.html
fletched arrows are grouping perfectly. bare shafts are group about a foot to the right. would could be causing this?
Having trouble wrapping my head around the limbs producing less poundage, yet shooting faster. Would the faster arrow not automatically hit harder, therefore making the extra poundage of the increased brace height irrelevant?
I was struggle on my recurve bare shaft arrow too stiff, i increased draw weight on 2 pounds but it didn’t help. Set plunger didn’t help. Increase arrow head weight didn’t help. Increase brace height may be a chance. Thanks for your video.
Remember though. It’s not supposed to be the first method of tuning. If you’ve tried all the other things you mentioned, perhaps dropping down to a weaker spine range would be the first step. This video is to show you what brace height CAN do, but not necessarily what you SHOULD do. Good luck.
When you add weight to the rear of the arrow (feathers) it stiffens the arrow some; right?
Yes
Will the backbone come into play
One thing that many people need to know. The difference between a good selfbow with a natural string and a good modern traditional bow with a modern string is only 25 fps on average. So, no matter what you do, the most improvement you can expect is not so great. Differences are even less when comparing similar bows. The best thing you can do as an archer, is to be practical and do the best you can with what you got. Otherwise, get the absolute best equipment you can afford. Which is not necessarily the most expensive. Don't be fooled by overpriced bows or arrows. There are very good traditional bows now for under $200 that achieve the same accuracy and speed as $700-1000 bows. Like I said, don't be fooled by bullshit.
Do you think the material you are shooting into could have given you false readings? I was told to use a solid foam, preferably new target. That the layered targets, like the one you are using, due to gaps, unevenness and such give false readings and are not the best choice.
I'd agree if I was looking at nock-high or low. When looking at stiff or weak (left or right), the horizontally layered target is a fantastic medium.
Talking off the top of my head, but I believe you did a similar video several years back regarding brace height and speed, correct?
@@bowhuntingsoul2149
Yes I did. But mine was if it increased the speed of the arrow only. I found no real difference in speed, but I stayed within the manufacturer's recommendations.
I found more variance in speed due to my form than Brace Height.
I really do not think one inch is going to give you any real increase in speed. I mean a foot, maybe two, is it really worth it?
3D Archery agreed. I made sure to mention in Part 1 that bh tuning is really to quiet the bow, not necessarily use it to increase arrow speed.
Bowhunting Soul
Not doubting, I was just curious as to your take on the foam. I hear all types of stuff and wanted your opinion. Good stuff, keep it up!
Dirk Hunter there is no mention of nock high or low you nitwit. Watch the video. Thanks for your astute observation and positive contributions 👍
I was able to duplicate your test on a 45lb longbow. I shot (+/-) 160 arrows out of two bows. The recurve no effect at 20 or 30 yards. The long bow did show to duplicate your test. My longbow shoots best at 7" flat and to move it a inch it will not preform well at all. My recurve had much less effect to the point of just the reverse. I hunt with that bow and have for 27 years and have always shot best at 8 1/8". I put another 50 through my 30 lb win and win but I had to use my wife's arrow and they are to short so I didn't really get good readings Good evening.
Tuning is fun, ain’t it? Lol
@@bowhuntingsoul2149 I am self employed and at the age that I can take the jobs I want and pass on the others so I have a lot of shooting time. It's cool.
Your extreme spreads are different. Its 3-5 fps faster on average. Horse bows are faster than recurves by a very measurable amount and generally have much shorter brace heights and a smoother draw. Different styles of bows will respond differently to brace height
Anyone else notice all the holes in the walls? :)
It must be a sacrificial room!
Imagine if a guy is smoking a cigarette behind that door and a arrow come poke through 🤣
your draw length varies so much as to make the fps measuring to be not accurate
You must have missed the part about resetting the clicker to the same draw length
@@bowhuntingsoul2149 watch the video .. the release is collapsed in some , static in others and expanding in a few. My own research with chronos and clickers is that even with a clicker the fps can vary by 4-6 fps as the release quality varies . I didn't miss the clicker comment
@@mikebyford5258 I agree with Mike. If your clicker was set for 28” and your arrow is 30” bop then why on most of your shots is there 4” of arrow sticking out from the back of bow? And I’m not talking about your point length.
Furthermore, the lower brace height/lower poundage albeit 1#+ difference/higher speed is a better setup for hunting and the bareshaft can be tuned to that setup, too.
Brother thank you for the information but you are to close to the target i personally bare shaft at 25 yards
Effects, not "affects."
I was going to get defensive and argue with you, then I realized you’re correct lol. I’m I stickler for grammar and usually the one correcting such things. But yes, you could either say “Brace height will affect spine” or “The effect of brace height on spine”.
If you are getting more speed at a lower brace you are getting more energy to the arrow a fact and you proved it with the coronagraph. As to why your arrow will show stiff with more speed (energy) is against the laws of physics. I don't know the answer but the extra stored energy at a higher brace is also cut short when the string stops the limbs. I shoot a 600 spine out of a 42lb @28" recurve and 18 percent FOC I get just the opposite of you. Something wrong in the stew.
Sorry but that’s false. What you’re saying goes against what every bowyer and bow tuner knows. Not trying to be rude but you’ve missed the explanation behind all of it. These are not just my assertions, they are known tuning truths in archery.
We learned from different tuning experiences over the years. I don't think of you as rude at all nor am I trying to be we just disagree. On the 6 recurves and 4 longbows I have never in 30+ years had a arrow do what you demonstrated. If I landed on the week side of the spine ,just a little, I raised my brass about 1/4 inch and that bare shaft would paper tune and the reverse if the shaft was stiff. I don't care that much about arrow speed I just want them to hit where I point them. I shoot 3 under and aim off the tip of the arrow and I shoot bows from 40 to 52 lbs and have them set up properly spined shafts. In saying this I have tuned a butt load of bows and arrows to go with them and have never run into what you did . I called my shooting partner ,a level 4 US Olempic archery coach ,retired, and he says he has never seen that either. This is not to say your wrong at all I saw on video the outcome. Have a nice evening.👍
@@carlduncan8462 speed has nothing to do with spine. Acceleration does. You can make a straw go very fast, it just takes a while to get there. Same with an airplane. A jet liner goes 500+mph, but it takes a long time to get there. If you tried to get it there in under a few seconds it would crumple. The spine stiffness of an arrow doesn’t have to stand up to speed. It has to stand up to the sudden hit of energy upon release (acceleration).
If you had a long enough power stroke (say several feet), you could accelerate the arrow slowly but still get it going extremely fast as a final velocity. Conversely, you could have a very short power stroke (inches perhaps?) and accelerate that arrow to the same speed. The arrow that takes longer to hit final velocity (slow acceleration) can get away with a much weaker spine than the arrow that hits final velocity very quickly (high acceleration).
Once they are at top speed, spine almost becomes pointless. The arrow does not need to stand up to straight light speed because there is no accelerative force being applied to the shaft.
Let me get it all in line here. You are saying that a static object propelled with less energy in the test is making your arrow shoot weak and more energy in your test makes your arrow to stiff. In your case the static object (the arrow
Sorry got side tracked. But here it is you impart more energy to your arrow it will shoot faster less energy makes it slower. Energy and speed ,in this will go hand in hand. This is a cause and effect you and I can't explain.i guess what works for me shooting the most efficient spine in my bows I can get to tune at the best sound and and maintain a desired sight picture is where I'm going to stand. My bows shoot at a brace best at setting for each bow some at 8 inches and some a little more but I know if I raised my brace a 1/2 inch the arrow would start to shoot stiff. Anyways do what you do and I will do my thing and we will both be happy