The Carnal Christian? - R.C. Sproul
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- Опубліковано 29 сер 2024
- Do works produce faith, or is it the other way around? There are many who have confused the order of things concerning faith, justification, and works. In "The Carnal Christian," Dr. Sproul addresses this problem and helps us understand the relationship between faith and works.
I love the lessons from RC. I learned more in the first month after finding him, then I learned in ten years of attending Christian church's after salvation.
@Burned By Churches Shalom Aleichem Burned By Churches,
''they teach that you need Hebrew and Greek to properly study the King James Bible."
Do you not think this to be true?
Any believer who wants to live in Sin and call themselves a believer need to read 1 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves.
Be ye Holy for I am holy!
RC admits that a Christian can be carnal just not full carnal? The question is does he have a copy of what is considered carnal vs full carnal
If they want to live in sin and they are not chastened by the Holyspirit. Shows that they are not born of the spirit. God chastened his children and if a person is not chastened they are not Gods child they are bastards at best at worst Satan is their father.
AMEN, RC !
*JUDE 1 : 3 - 4*
*"Dear friends, I had been eagerly planning to write to you about the salvation we all share. But now I find that I must write about something else, urging you to defend the faith that God has entrusted once for all time to his holy people.I say this because some ungodly people have wormed their way into your churches, saying that God's marvelous grace allows us to live immoral lives. The condemnation of such people was recorded long ago, for they have denied our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ."*
RC admits that a Christian can be carnal just not full carnal? The question is does he have a copy of what is considered carnal vs full carnal
First Corinthians 5:5 Turn such a one over to Satan to kill the flesh, so that his Spirit might be saved in the day of the Lord. This born again believer was sleeping with his fathers wife. He was about to lose his life, and the rewards he could have had in heaven, but the man was still saved so as by fire. Only His works would be burned up. First Corinthians 3:15. Our sin debt has been paid in full, and we can never be condemned again, John 3:18, but we can be chastened by the Lord and maybe even lose our life. But our salvation is assured because Jesus died for all sin. First John 2:2.
@Carly Fournier Carly. Who decides what is a 'long period of time's (?)
Of course, you will respond that
God decides. Well, when does he
decide? If a believer loses their way one day, is that it for him/her?
10 years? 20 ?
If, by grace, a person repent in
40 years is he/she too late?
Do you just counsel that
person not to pray since
he/she blew it and they
are on their way to
perdition?
Chapter and verse please(?)
Ligonier Is as Good as it gets; this side of Glory!!
Truly a great theologian, pastor, and teacher. I have had issues with the “Carnal Christian” problem for years. When you live in the manner of the world, you may be subject to he discipline of God almighty.
Good works are evidence of faith.
But they are not what save you. If you are relying on works to as evidence of Salvation, you are going to live a miserable existence. Instead, why not believe in what Christ did on the Cross for you and me?
Not always
See: A majority of the laypeople in the Roman Catholic Church. Week in and week out doing "good things" but not trusting that Christ's work on the Cross is sufficient
What an awesome God we have. While we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
We are saved unto good Works prepared for us before the foundation of the world.
Anyone who has saving faith is a changed person; if they aren't changed they don't have saving faith 😍 speak truth!!
"And remember, our Lord’s patience gives people time to be saved. This is what our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you with the wisdom God gave him- speaking of these things in all of his letters. Some of his comments are hard to understand, and those who are ignorant and unstable have twisted his letters to mean something quite different, just as they do with other parts of Scripture. And this will result in their destruction." 2 Peter 3:15-16.
Anyone who gets saved will have evidence to follow. This evidence may be recognized only by those who knew this one before conversion. Sometimes the evidence is seen clearly by all.
Notes:
1:21 Continually being disobedient.
2:15 two types of Christians: spiritual & carnal
3:07 requirements for salvation. What must I do to be saved?
6:20 most sanctified Christian struggles
7:10 if you are carnal you are not a Christian
7:45 Christ must be Savior and Lord
8:20 but we struggle and are imperfect.
8:40 Do I have to submit to Christ as Lord at all.
10:30 Carnal Christian in that sense would be an oxymoron
11:33 Quotes a free gracer
12:00 Luther had the charge of antinomianism
13:00 Luther was challenged with passages from James.
13:22 "A faith that is devoid of works will not justify anybody"
13:50 "... not by a faith that is alone"
14:30 "... necessary and immediately"
15:10 "The person that has saving faith is a changed person"
15:36 saving faith = regenerated.
15:41 "Faith is the root of regeneration and not the cause of it. Regeneration proceeds faith."
16:30 "that faith that is real inevitably produces the fruit of works"
18:30 if a person says he has faith and no works he has zero justification.
20:49 Cheap grace is dangerous.
21:32 "look to your heart, look to your soul and see if your profession of faith is genuine. If it is, you're home and you're justified."
Very good
In this message you are never sure you are saved. Believe on the lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved. Amen
Thank you Jesus
Great message, faith in Christ as our savior is also an action in the way we live.
There seems to be enough scripture evidence (almost in every book of the NT) that Fruit that results from 'Saving Faith' defines it. In Romans before Paul even starts his great epistle of Faith & Righteousness, right there in the greeting to the Roman Church of the first seven verses; in verse 5, we find the words which are tucked in "the obedience that comes from faith". Obedience proceeds out of faith.
And Romans both starts(Rom 1:5) and ends with the same expression "the obedience that comes from faith"(Rom 16:26).
God's Blessing and Love to all.
If you BELIEVE the house is on fire..... You WILL Act accordingly, and get out....you WON'T sit there and finish your movie!
TMS As Christians how does canality of the mind affect our relationship with God. Click on the link below and find out more gurudeseyesubai.org/the-carnal-mind/
@@faridaemerson8888 I looked it up. The Bible explains it completely
🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼 I'm struggling so much bc my bf isn't understanding my stressing about us living together. I know it's so wrong and that my relationship with God won't flourish until I flee from my sin/flesh life. he calls himself christian yet sees no issue with what we are doing 😢😢😢 please pray for me
@@alaorilla9716 What Scripture brought you to conviction? Share that with him. The Word of God is living and powerful... it will not return unto Him without accomplishing what He sent it to do. Also, many who call themselves "Christian", aren't. Ask him when he was Born Again, and how the Holy Spirit convicted him of Sin. You'll know, in minutes, the Reality of the situation. I pray for both of you. Obey whatever God tells you.
@@thomasmartinscott thank you so much for replying and your advice is wonderful. I will do all of this with him and pray he sees what we're doing is wrong and stops justifying it (by saying "we don't have sex" or trying to twist scripture by saying things like Mary Magdalene slept in same tent as jesus during his discipleship so what we're doing is fine ) to please his own self. I pray he at least respects and understands my newfound devotion. he thinks I'm giving up on him and leaving him when in reality I'm just getting to know God better and as much as it hurts I want nothing more in life now than to abide by His will, not my partners anymore.. so I can start my new life in Christ the way I am meant to.. thank you again you've been so kind 🤍
I don't think anyone who is a true christian, could say "oh it's okay I'm a carnal christian". That's really disgusting and shaming the name of The Lord
This an truly excellent message, The only exception to his proposal to my mind would be the deathbed convert who would have no opportunity to display any fruit or good works in this life, perhaps like the theif on the cross. They would surely be justified by faith alone and that faith would perforce have to be alone. Sadly I cannot ask Dr Spruel but maybe someone else would like to comment on my thought.
2 years ago I thought I knew enough about God's work of sanctification (which really under-girds this discussion) to write a book about it, in connection with how it plays out in our Christian lives and our faith. But the more I studied the more I came to realize I was not yet ready to write that book. I've begun writing it several times. Perhaps I will finally be ready by Jan. 2019, as I think I'm now at the point of finally having enough blessings of truth to offer the kingdom of God (church). Blessings.
Just stay in the word, always in prayer that Jesus guides you in which you wish to share in knowledge of the word.
Check and above all, that which you wish to share is not a product of pride, so that your work is edifying to the body of Christ, and is faithful to the word of God. Lest you fall onto heresy.
Luke 9:23
And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.
Galatians 2:20
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
Well spoken DR sproul, this is the teaching in Gods word about carnal Christians as taught in Matthew 13:24-30 KJV, on the parable of the wheat and the tares. God bless your ministry.
Stephen Mcauley no that's not what the wheat and the tears are the wheat and the tears are believers and nonbelievers what are you talking about if you believe RC Sproles and John MacArthur and all of them you're going to hell with them salvation is a free gift Jesus said to drink the water freely that I give salvation is a free gift trusting in the life of Christ not your own
So the Carnal Christian (not talking about the man in Romans 7, but the man who does not care to stop sinning or care about his sin) will be forgiven by God, but those Calvinists who believe that a person cannot be saved and yet also consider themselves to be a slave to righteousness are all going to hell? ? Interesting. I suppose teaching a high view of God, and of the inevitable influence of the Holy Spirit in a person's life to produce fruits, is heretical.
It is not a free gift, it is a unmerited gift. Jesus says it is going to cost to maybe your life. When God regenerates your heart a person becomes so grateful that obedience to the law is not even a burden. Those who have been truly born again know that all the works they do is not of their own but the in dwelling of Christ. Why are you so angry Paul telling people they are going to hell? If Christ is in you it would produce Love for your fellow professing Christians and a gentleness in discussing the word of God. May God bless you.
THANK YOU R.C. I needed this, really did.
Arun Allen if you're believing with RC Sproles just said in this video you better watch out he's lying to you
As the body without the spirit is dead, faith without works is dead!
I really needed to hear this message.
Romans 9:16
“So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.”
My grandpa took a course in EE - Evangelism Explosion, by the late Dr. D. James Kennedy, back in 1991.
Grandpa told me this, that after you make your profession of faith, within a few days, if you do not have the sense of being a different person deep within, they you probably haven't given the Lord your heart!
Eph 2:8-10 is another crystal clear summation. Our Salvation is God's gift & not from works that not one person can boast of(verses 8-9). Verse 10 speaks of works that follow our Salvation - we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do. God's workmanship! - how beautiful, born again as a new creation. As God's handiwork works are inevitable.
This man is an intellect... he started preaching, and in the end I could not even recall which scripture he had based his teaching upon... what kind of preaching that does not help to understand the pages of scripture...
+Nemabubuni Geoffrey - Sproul is one of the best preachers who ever lived.. If you couldn't recall, that isn't HIS fault.. Maybe you are not used to ACTUAL preaching. There is SO LITTLE left of it in this world.
“Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law.”
Romans 3:31
You don't put your faith in a profession of faith. You don't put your faith in an "experience of grace ", though that experience is necessary. You put your faith in a crucified and risen savior, the Lord Jesus Christ. Quick prayerism is sending people to hell in the masses. Genuine salvation ALWAYS results in repentance from sin and dead works with a desire to learn of and love the Lord Jesus Christ. I didn't know much about repentance, faith, justification. I just knew i was under conviction of sin. For a year and a half. I came forward service after service. I must have said the prayer a thousand times. Finally, one Wednesday night in 1995, i heard the preacher make this statement. " if righteousness come by the law, Christ is dead in vain. To him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Salvation is Jesus plus nothing ". Immediately i felt as though i had been awakened. No lights, no buzzers going off. Just an ease in my soul i had never felt. I didn't say the prayer that day. Didnt have time to. Jesus saved me before I knew what happened because i heard the word of God and believed it. I'm very grateful to the men who got me grounded in the king james word of God. Because the next morning all the good feelings left me. We can't anymore put faith in feeling more than we can a wet paper sack. It's in the word of God. That's what we were saved by. That's where our hope lies.
There should be no controversy IF they are grounded in the scriptures. Of course, the NT clearly states more than once that those who are drunkards, fornicators , liars, covet (which is idolatry), etc will NOT enter heaven. False teachers too often preach the need for forgiveness, but not delivered. Jesus said, “If you love me you will obey My commandments.” The days of apostasy and weak theology is allowing this kind of religion to lead many to remain hell-bound. Thank you for this program just HEAR Spirit and Truth. The Carnal Christian are those Jesus will rebuke, “I NEVER KNEW YOU.” - In reality, they never knew God either.
Jesus said that there will be many who will say to him, "Lord, Lord..." and yet He will tell them, "Depart from me, for I never knew you." Why did He never know them? Because they never believed the gospel, they never believed on what He did on their behalf for their sins on the cross, never believed in *who* He is: God who came in human flesh to die for the sins of the whole world and be raised again in a conquering of death. Calling Him "Lord", or even making him "Lord" does not mean one is saved and it is not what saves. It is faith in Christ alone, as the only way to be reconciled to God, the only way to have our sins forever washed away, that saves the soul. The rest comes after salvation, through discipleship, reading the word (the bread), and growing: sanctification. A person cannot do those things, have any strength or power or understanding to do them, until they have been born again (regenerated) by God through faith (believing on Jesus Christ and what He did for them personally). So, if Jesus says there are those will call Him "Lord" and who will bring up all the wonderful things they did in His name but He does not know them because they are not His (never believed on Him even though they did works and thought they did amazing things for Him), then making Him "Lord" has nothing to do with salvation. He is Lord whether a person recognizes or understand that or not. One day every knee shall bow and ever tongue shall confess that He is LORD, even the unsaved. Scripture says that no one can call Him "Lord" but by the Holy Spirit, and only those who are saved have the Holy Spirit. Therefore only the saved person can learn and grow to appreciate Him as Lord. Whether a believer does or not, Jesus is still Lord, the Great I AM.
jesus is only Lord to those who nelieve Him. those who follow Satan acknowledge him or self as their Lord. Lord means who you obey.
Angela B 1e how do I know if I am being deceived
Paul washer
Biblical assurance
Amen!!! That indeed was a very well said statement! Thanks be to our Lord and savior Jesus Christ!
+Angela B --If they never believed the Gospel, they were never saved to begin with so would not be chastened by the Lord. The Lord chastens who He LOVES, not the unbeliever. Thus that is *not why* "He never knew them", not at all. I think you need to listen to the video again. You are totally confusing the believer who falls into sin and God chastens, and the totally unbelieving. Unbelievers do not even come into the chastening of the Lord of His own.
@Redeemed my brother I'm not sure you might be my sister in Christ lol. Thank you once again for sharing the TRUTH of the scriptures. We meet again. Praise Jesus! I like seeing your comments in these threads because I know the truth is being shared. Be blessed and see you in heaven my dear bro/sis!
Regeneration does not precede faith. The gospel. First Corinthian 15:1-4 That Christ died for our sins, according to the scriptures, that He was buried and rose again on the third day, according to the scriptures.
Ephesians 1:13-14 In whom ye also trusted, after ye heard the word of truth, the GOSPEL of your salvation, in whom also (AFTER) ye believed, ye were sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise unto the praise of HIS GLORY, Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the Holy Spirit in whom ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
We are given eternal life the second we believe. Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but BELIEVETH on Him who justifieth the ungodly, his FAITH is counted for righteousness. Faith alone in Christ alone plus nothing.
Blessed is the man to whom the Lord imputeth righteousness without works. Blessed is the man whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
John 3:18 Believers can no longer be condemned because the GIFT of God is eternal life, to everyone that believeth. To the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Romans 1:16.
Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that believeth on me HATH, (present tense0 ETERNAL LIFE. If you have eternal life today, you will still have eternal life 100 years from now. Jesus can not lie.
Romans 11:6 AMAZING GRACE, JESUS PAID IT ALL AND WE PAID 0. IT IS FREE, or not at all, because a sinner can not redeem himself. I possess everlasting life. First John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that BELIEVE on the name of the Son of God, that ye may KNOW YE HAVE ETERNAL LIFE. Jesus said it, I believe it and that settles it.
Sorry I wrote so much. But I want everyone to believe and receive the free gift of eternal life by faith alone apart from any works. Roman 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, the bad news, but, the good news, THE GIFT OF GOD IS ETERNAL LIFE, through Jesus Christ our Lord. We repent, change our mind and quit trusting in what we do to save us to trusting in what Jesus did to save us and accept as a free gift.
Absolutely the truth spoken here.
Spot on.
IF.... you don't believe it.... enough to live it...
You either Don't get it... or you completely reject it. No middle ground.
Prince Harming i fell away and into sin. I didnt understand the danger of sin. So lost now
CurlsByDre beware of lies
When Jesus was on the cross, something was happening to him. He was receiving punishment.
A person would need to claim that they are deserving of punishment and this must be their confession. To believe that you are deserving of punishment requires dying to self. To see our sin from God perspective requires God, the Holy Spirit to bring the word to our hearts.
The Jehovah witness believe that Jesus die on the cross for their sins. But do they believe that they are deserving of eternal damnation on account of their sin?
A person who does not believe that they are not fully deserving of eternal damnation for their sin will have no place for God‘s word in their life. His word and Jesus Christ will be irrelevant to them.
We must be fully dependent on the Lord Jesus Christ. Directing people to their free will as the means of obedience rather than on the obedience that comes through faith in Jesus Christ is to lie about how infinitely glorious Jesus Christ is. The object of our faith is primarily Jesus Christ, not our obedience. Because he is the messiah, the Son of God, he raises people to life in himself by his own glory and goodness. When a person looks at Jesus, they see the father. Do you have the correct Jesus Christ?
I have a fence post in the middle of my paddock, just one post standing alone in the middle of the paddock. Whenever I drive my four wheel drive in the paddock I have to avoid that fence post. Because it is true that the fence post is there, it required something of me, otherwise I would run into the post. It is not a matter of making a decision as to if the fence post is there, but a matter of seeing the fence post. You don’t need to make a decision that the world is round, you need to see, hear, understand and believe that the world is round. Every word that comes out of the mouth of almighty God will either create something or be some law by which things work. Everything that originates from man or demons is lies. If God was to decree that the world be square tomorrow, the world would become square tomorrow and that would then be truth.
Because it is true that God is infinitely glorious this truth requires that our hearts be full of his glory. If we see hear and understand who he is we will become full of all worship of him without fail. The fact that all of us fall short of his glory is on account of our sin. We are all looking in the wrong direction (inwardly at ourselves). We are so blind and deceived in sin. Seeking and understanding are included in the term righteousness, which none of us have, not even on. If none seek him on account of their sin, how will any find him?
God’s election is the grace by which we are saved. It is the grace of God that makes one man to differ from another. Do any of us have any advantage over others? No, none can boast or judge another.
Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the dessert, so the Son of man must be lifted up, that all who believe in him will not perish, but have eternal life. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed. Justification is though faith in Jesus Christ because Jesus came into the world, that whoever believes in him will not perish, but have eternal life. He did not come to save the righteous, but sinners. If you don’t like this justification through faith in Jesus Christ, you could try believing in him.
Amen brother, thoughts of a true disciple. Praise the Holy Father and His son The Risen One
RC admits that a Christian can be carnal just not full carnal? The question is does he have a copy of what is considered carnal vs full carnal
Carnal means they are living in sins, even gross sins, but there is a dissatisfaction in him. There is another nature that makes him unhappy down inside. A tension. He still has a longing for Christ, but because he is living in sin, he may be tormented.
FULL CARNAL means the "Christian" lives in the mud, the sin, and finds satisfaction in his sinfulness, assuming because he prayed some prayer long ago, he is ok. There is no tension about the way he is living, only excuses, like, "Oh, I am just a carnal Christian."
So appreciate this. Always great teaching from Dr. Sproul. I have to wonder what went so wrong with his son RC Jr? He's the perfect example of the carnal Christian Dr. Sproul speaks of here. For his sake I hope he can't look down from heaven and see what his son is doing. He witnessed too much of it when he was alive as it was.
Rc sproul neverunderstood James chapter 2. Faith with out works is dead in the eyes of men. Workless faith does not benefit any beholder... nevertheless,but to him that worketh not but believeth on him that justfy the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
The point of James chapter 2 is that it shows that true faith acts through works. It is right that dead faith is of no benefit to the beholder. However James is getting at something else. True faith goes deeper than just head knowledge it is a deep trust in the object of the faith. True faith obeys God because it trust God. If we say we have faith but are disobedient it shows we really don't really trust him. If somebody is going on in disobedience unrepentantly it showd that they have a dead faith like that of the demons. The person may have head knowledge but it doesn't go deeper than that.
I'd like to point out with love that only God can see some change and the person being changed.... Jesus warned us that we wouldn't really be able to tell that's why he's having a great throne judgment to sift us out
we must contend for our faith
Justification is by Faith alone; but Not by faith that is alone. True faith bares fruit! Anyone that truly read the word wouldn’t miss that.
Hebrews 10:26 Practicing sin vs Practicing righteousness . It’s not perfection but direction! The grace of God would not compromise His perfect character. And the spirit of Christ in salvation, justification, sanctification reaps evidence in a true Christian heart!
I agree wholeheartedly! I believed in Christ but lived like the devil and believe had I cd died I would have gone to hell. It is a shame I ad (had) to break my neck to get saved.
God is glorified within Himself these two ways: 1. By appearing . . . to Himself in His own perfect idea [of Himself], or in His Son who is the brightness of His glory.
2. By enjoying and delighting in Himself, by flowing forth in infinite love and delight towards Himself, or in his Holy Spirit. So God glorifies Himself toward the creatures also in two ways:
1. By appearing to . . . their understanding. 2. In communicating Himself to their hearts, and in their rejoicing and delighting in, and enjoying, the manifestations which He makes of Himself. . .
God is glorified not only by His glory's being seen, but by its being rejoiced in. When those that see it delight in it, God is more glorified than if they only see it. His glory is then received by the whole soul, both by the understanding and by the heart.
God made the world that He might communicate, and the creature receive, His glory; and that it might [be] received both by the mind and heart. He that testifies his idea of God's glory [doesn't] glorify God so much as he that testifies also his approbation of it and his delight in it.
Because [God] infinitely values his own glory, consisting in the knowledge of himself, love to himself, and complacence and joy in himself; he therefore valued the image, communication or participation of these, in the creature.
And it is because he values himself, that he delights in the knowledge, and love, and joy of the creature; as being himself the object of this knowledge, love and complacence. . .
[Thus] God's respect to the creature's good, and his respect to himself, is not a divided respect; but both are united in one, as the happiness of the creature aimed at, is happiness in union with himself.
It follows from all this that it is impossible that anyone can pursue happiness with too much passion and zeal and intensity. Virtue is what we do with all our might in pursuit of the enjoyment of the presence and promotion of the glory of God.
And therefore the cultivation of spiritual appetite is a great duty for all the saints. Men . . . ought to indulge those appetites. To obtain as much of those spiritual satisfactions as lies in their power. That persons need not and ought not to set any bounds to their spiritual and gracious appetites.
"For God giveth to a man that is good in his sight wisdom, and knowledge, and joy" (Ecclesiastes 2:26).
facebook.com/lovejoypeaceforever
Christians are saved by Grace through faith alone in Christ alone and appointed unto good works thereafter. However, looking to works for assurance and evidence of regeneration/election is completely misplaced. Our assurance like our salvation comes through resting on Christ's work on our behalf.
'My hope is built on nothing less
Than Jesus' Blood and Righteousness
I dare not trust the sweetest frame But wholly lean on Jesus' Name
On Christ the solid rock I stand
All other ground is sinking sand"
Have you compared your conclusion with Hebrews, James, or 1 John? Or even the words of Christ?
@@EricHillAuthor
Yes and comparing Scripture with Scripture, justification and assurance is solely predicated on trusting the person and work of the Lord Jesus Christ and absolutely nothing of ourselves. When we receive Christ as Saviour, it is our responsibility to follow Him as Lord (Colossians 2:6). We are also appointed unto good works (Eph 2:10) but this is nothing to do with attaining, maintaining or evidencing salvation and is a growth, practical sanctification and discipleship issue. Rewards at the Bema seat will be based on service post regeneration. While I would concede that a saved, justified Christian would not be totally carnal, some will have pretty high levels of carnality and their works will be as wood, hay and stubble burned up by the testing fire. This applies to those too who are saved by faith that is in Christ Jesus but doubt their salvation and/or are placing the grounds of assurance on how they are performing. Whatsoever is not of faith and not done in faith from a position of resting on Christ's Finished Work is sin and will not be rewarded. Even more serious is centring justification on Christ plus something else. For those it will not be the Bema seat but the Great White Throne judgement and a casting into the Lake of Fire.
John 8:32
And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
I do enjoy all ur msg more grace
John 14:21. Christ say if you love me you will be my commandments
marya medlock thats right.. The more we understand the Love of God the more we will want to honor him with our lives
Amen marya
+marya medlock
You cannot BE a Commandment! Christ ACTUALLY said, "If you love me, you will KEEP my Commandments. Do you KNOW what Christ's Commandments are? (Hint: they are NOT people!!)
RC quote on the Roman Catholic Church's teaching on justification ( 17:25 )... "you have to have the faith but you also have to have the works.. when? BEFORE you are justified and those works are part of the grounds or basis of your justification."
That is a complete distortion of what the Roman Catholic Church taught at the Council of Trent. For example:
"And whereas the Apostle saith, that man is justified by faith and freely, those words are to be understood in that sense which the perpetual consent of the Catholic Church hath held and expressed; to wit, that we are therefore said to be justified by faith, **because faith is the beginning of human salvation, the foundation, and the root of all Justification;** without which it is impossible to please God, and to come unto the fellowship of His sons: but we are therefore said to be justified freely, because that **none of those things which precede justification-**whether faith or works- merit the grace itself of justification. For, if it be a grace, it is not now by works, otherwise, as the same Apostle says, grace is no more grace."
Matthew Chapter 10
34Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
35For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
I believe the controversy has everything to do with what is written here in Matthew 10:34-35 it has to do with the separation between the sheep and the goats is what it does,
I agree with what Dr. Sproul is saying. However, I find it a bit unsettling that Reformed Christian continually base their disquisitions on the writings of the reformers. The reformers were right in many things but they also were utterly wrong in many things. For example, they never understood the relationship between the Law of Moses and the new life in Jesus Christ and this led them to burn people at the stake, to behead a child for beating his parents, and to drown an adulteress in the river. These things are AGAINST the teachings of Christ. These reformed Christians still struggle with state-imposed legalism. However, as I said before, I agree 100% with what Dr. Sproul is saying in this video.
the reformed Christians, being the reformers themselves such as Luther, and Calvin, or any other Reformer, never burned any one at the stake. if you are refering to the Salem witch trials, you can't blame that on reformers themselves. superstitious people using religion as a cover for their own fear, will use any cover they can to commit their bloodthirsty atrocities.
Ned Landry
It seems to me that you are wrong. Check out this website:
etb-history-theology.blogspot.it/2012/03/execution-of-child-and-adulterers-in.html
Pin 8 : from all reformed christians, the only one is Calvin, who, with absolute certainty understood trough the gospel of Luke and the book of Acts, that Moses was numbered with the transgressors. I do not know how much he leaned on his own understanding, but obviously he was out of his mind. And if Paul was crucified for Luther, he would have been a tulip not a lilie.
Faith without Works Is Dead _ James 2:14-26
14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters,[a] if you say you have faith but do not have works? Can faith save you? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and lacks daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, ‘Go in peace; keep warm and eat your fill’, and yet you do not supply their bodily needs, what is the good of that? 17 So faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead.
18 But someone will say, ‘You have faith and I have works.’ Show me your faith without works, and I by my works will show you my faith. 19 You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe-and shudder. 20 Do you want to be shown, you senseless person, that faith without works is barren? 21 Was not our ancestor Abraham justified by works when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was brought to completion by the works. 23 Thus the scripture was fulfilled that says, ‘Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness’, and he was called the friend of God. 24 You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. 25 Likewise, was not Rahab the prostitute also justified by works when she welcomed the messengers and sent them out by another road? 26 For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is also dead.
Jose Vieira
Jose i ask this question to many brothers and sisters and also catholics just to see their answers, many quote this verse of James but dont understand it, and i TOTALLY agree with Dr Sprouls and James, but my question to you is what is works to you, what does the verse in James read to you,
In loving spirit God bless you
jim kraft
Your in error my brother James was written to all Christians for all times, who are the scattered tribes?
Where is the house of Israel the northern kingdom (10 tribes), they were scattered throughout the world and the southern kingdom ( house of Judah which were 2 tribes, Judah and benjamin) not all returned after the babylonian captivity, God divorced the house of ISRAEL and they no longer know their identity but God knows, God promised to regather his people.
JESUS said i came only to the lost sheep of the house of ISRAEL,
The Jews ( house of Judah) were given the GOSPEL first, then the gospel went to Paul, after the stoning of Stephen, I hope this helps i wrote you a compressed version but you should do a STUDY on the lost tribes
Be blessedps. Jesus said my sheep hear my voice, ( the gospel)
If you read the first verse of James, he was talking to the twelve tribes of Israel scattered abroad. Then He called them brethren. Already believers saved by grace. He was telling them to go on to good works for profit in heaven, not to save them. Good works never saved anybody. What Jesus did for us on the cross is what saves us. Romans 11:6 It is all grace, not works, if it was by works, then it is no longer grace, and if by grace is no longer works.
When we trust Jesus as our savior we are given the Holy Spirit and eternal life. It is a gift. We can not earn salvation by what we do. Ephesians 2:8-9 and Ephesians 1:13 and 4:30 We are sealed by the Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption. Jesus paid it all and we paid 0. Salvation is a free gift of God without works. Works are for rewards in heaven, never for salvation. We can not work our way to heaven.
Hebrews 13:5 Says He will never leave us or forsake us. John 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life, and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. Our salvation does no depend on us but on Jesus finished work on the cross plus nothing. Lest any man should boast.
However. James called them brethren. Already saved believers. He was telling them to go on to good works for profit in heaven, not for salvation. We are saved without works. Romans 11:6 and Ephesians 2:8-9
I am not of the scattered tribes of Israel, I am a saved Gentile. Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God unto salvation for every one that believeth, to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
+ Jose Vieira
Like SO MANY, you are taking James 2 out of context. When he says that, "faith without works is dead", he is talking about works being EVIDENCE of one's salvation..NOT that you need works FOR Salvation..That's a work based salvation and a false Doctrine. James is saying that IF you ARE saved, you WILL do good works BECAUSE you are saved - not to BE saved.. Far too many take James out of context and automatically fall for a works based salvation which is heretical. You've taken James' words totally out of context.
Matthew Chapter 25
33And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
This inevitably leads to looking at oneself for salvation rather than the saviour. No assurance. Christians who point to their works as proof of salvation use a great deal of "I" statements when describing their relationship to the Lord.
😭😭😭
God is so good.
Well, that's what R.C. Sproul said. Here's what the Bible plainly says, "And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely." (Revelation 22:17) Did you hear the gospel of how Christ died for your sins and rose again bodily from the dead? (First Corinthians 15:1-4) Are you thirsty for the forgiveness of your sins? Do you want your sins forgiven and to receive by faith the free, totally unmerited gift of eternal life? (Ephesians 2:8,9) Then, by an act of your will you CAN call on the Lord and trust in the shed blood of Christ and He promises He will save you. That's not what I said or any church reformer, who were often wrong btw, it is what the Bible, which is alone our sole authority for faith and practice. It is not me, John Calvin, Martin Luther, R.C. Sproul, or anyone else. If God said, "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord SHALL BE SAVED" (Romans 10:13, Acts 2:21, and Joel 2:32) He means exactly that.
It is not confusing, but Satan wants you confused. Salvation is the gift of God and is by His grace because it was purchased for you by the Lord Jesus Christ on the cross. You do not make Jesus the Lord of your life in order to obtain it not does the acceptance and reliance upon Christ guarantee you will be a spiritual Christian. Obedience to Christ as your Lord is NOT automatic and varies GREATLY from one believer to the next. Yes, there is such a thing as a truly carnal Christian who lives after the carnal nature and does not make Jesus the Lord of their lives. Christians can and do backslide and live seriously carnal lives, but not without serious consequences. To say how a Christian lives after they get saved is not important or has no consequences is simply to be totally ignorant of what the Bible teaches.
Psalms Chapter 51
1(To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David, when Nathan the prophet came unto him, after he had gone in to Bathsheba.) Have mercy upon me, O God, according to thy lovingkindness: according unto the multitude of thy tender mercies blot out my transgressions.
2Wash me throughly from mine iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin.
3For I acknowledge my transgressions: and my sin is ever before me.
4Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest.
5Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.
6Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward parts: and in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know wisdom.
7Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean: wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.
8Make me to hear joy and gladness; that the bones which thou hast broken may rejoice.
9Hide thy face from my sins, and blot out all mine iniquities.
10Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.
11Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.
12Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit.
13Then will I teach transgressors thy ways; and sinners shall be converted unto thee.
14Deliver me from bloodguiltiness, O God, thou God of my salvation: and my tongue shall sing aloud of thy righteousness.
15O Lord, open thou my lips; and my mouth shall shew forth thy praise.
16For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering.
17The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.
18Do good in thy good pleasure unto Zion: build thou the walls of Jerusalem.
19Then shalt thou be pleased with the sacrifices of righteousness, with burnt offering and whole burnt offering: then shall they offer bullocks upon thine altar.
We as christians we have times of backsliding like king David but we don't stay in our idolatrous sin we are corrected chastised the true christians in corinth eventually stopped living carnal so did king David God can't be mocked those who live in the spirit will reap eternal life those who does to the flesh will reap death. He has mercy on whom will have mercy we boast in God and the work of the holy Spirit we can't continue in self and be truly born again we continue to struggle we can struggle with idolatrous sin and through the holy Spirit and still say no with the help of the holy Spirit. Romans 6 Romans 7 Romans 8.
Thank you Jesus
At about 17:45 R C Sproul misrepresents Catholic Teaching on Justification. From the Council of Trent Decree on Justification:
"But when the Apostle says that man is justified by faith and freely, these words are to be understood in that sense in which the uninterrupted unanimity of the Catholic Church has held and expressed them, namely, that we are therefore said to be justified by faith, because faith is the beginning of human salvation, the foundation and root of all justification, without which it is impossible to please God and to come to the fellowship of His sons; and we are therefore said to be justified gratuitously, because none of those things that precede justification, whether faith or works, merit the grace of justification."
So Trent explicitly states that Justification is a totally free and unmerited gift.
When we admit that JESUS IS LORD, that should be the end of discussion for the Carnal Christian. It would make sense if it wasn't written in the Bible that Jesus is Lord, then I can see how they would be wayward in carnality.
Every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus is Lord.
Philippines 2:10-11 The Holy Bible
"I am carnal" -Apostle Paul
Speaking only about christians; We're all carnal, (in the flesh) but do not live in the flesh, but in the Spirit. Born again, dead to sin, alive in Christ. We still sin but do not practice sinning, but live in obedience to the Law of Christ. That's what he meant.
@@jordangarvin9282 thanks
@@jordangarvin9282 You left out 1 Timothy 1:15 Paul says he is the Chief of sin. Read Romans 7 - he says his sin still exist in his members. There is nothing about practicing sinning, you either sin or you do not. You are not any better than your brother if you sin once in a week and he sinned 4 times in a week.
@@destroyingtheworksofthedev9349 Completely misread the context. My point is no matter how far into your christian walk, you'll always have to battle against sin. Remember, the Spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak. Paul used the term *fight the good fight.* what did you think that meant? And it's chief of *"sinners"*, not sin. We will sin no matter how hard we try, but it's the Christian who's slowly being sanctified through the Holy Spirt to live more in obedience and less prone to sin overtime as he grows in the grace and knowledge of God. Never perfectly (in this life anyways), never immediately, but by steady accretion.
@@jordangarvin9282 Being spiritually mature is not something anyone can judge outwardly IMO. You can see action but is it of God? I look within and to prayer for my works. I do not want them to forced. I don't disagree with what you said here, however, if you have zero works, you are still saved. We can lose a lot though, rewards and be chastised in this life or even killed early. I can bet I have been chastised for my sin. In fact we are not even sons without chastisement:
Hebrews 12:8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
I apologize for speaking without context. Many misinterpret the scriptures by not having context.
If you are saved, "ye are bought with a price, and ye are not your own."
He is your FULL LORD whether you know it, or not. Whether or not you have made Him Lord of all.
IF you got the New Birth, you have bowed the knee to the Lordship of Christ.
On the contrary, some Christians sin so horribly that God has to take them home early. 1 Corinthians 11:30 “For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.” (KJV)
Paul rebuked the Corinthians because of a man who was committing incest, but he never said that the guy wasn't saved. 1 Corinthians 5:1 “It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.” (KJV)
Amen
if you continue in sin your in for a spanking, discipline from the Lord
LOL, love the way you put it! Amen to that
Tatersalad19 Cars (ESV) 8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 1-John 1:8
It happened to me! God chastises those He loves
Stephen Cellucci did He wait a long time and then bring loss into your life?
I wouldn't say it was a long time, maybe 4-6 months? I don't remember exactly, a lot of bad things happened all at once. If you want I can go into detail if it will help you with your walk with the Lord. It was obvious that those things that happened to me were from God. I hope I answered your question.
Sproul is correct in this teaching.
If you truly are saved, then you know that you are truly saved. You remember the day that you accepted Christ as your Saviour, and you remember the spiritual fruit that you began to bring forth.
Somewhere along the way, usually in a very subtle manner, your love for Christ began to fade. You probably didn’t see it when it began, again, it was subtle. But there came a point where the mesmerizing sounds and sights of the world (Satan) began to ever so delicately lead you away.
Years have gone by now. And in those years God never gave up on you, as you always heard His voice, whether through conviction of your sin, or when He would lift the scales off of your eyes to allow you to see what He, out of His love for you, protected you from when He should have let you suffer.
You have, no doubt at some point, went back to church, or perhaps run into one of you brothers or sisters as you were going along your day. Maybe they doubted your salvation, or they may have said outright that you weren’t saved. Your salvation is between you and God, no one else.
The most agonizing words that you will ever “hear” Christ say is, “I had so much more for you.” , by the look of disappointment on His face, after everything has gone through the fire. Your face will drop into your hands, as the sorrow of shame and loss begins to take hold of you. You turn to face the other direction with your face still in your hands and the weight becomes much. You fall to your knees, and with the weight of this sorrow you lean forward, sobbing as you begin to feel what you lost. You experience this as an empty oil barrel being hit on its sides, only to hear and feel the emptiness of that which should have been in this life, and that which Christ would have had in store for you in Heaven.
Then the shame overcomes you. To realize everything Christ did for you, and what little to nothing you did for him.
Christ walks up from behind you, on the left hand side, kneels down on His right knee and places His right arm over your shoulders. He squeezes your shoulder with His hand, and intuitively you hear His words, “Come on, John.” Christ stands up and walks in front of you, as you wipe the remaining tears from you eyes.
After your right hand takes its final wipe across your eyes, you see Christ’s nail pierced feet. What you could only begin to imagine from your earthly perspective, of the horror and agony that Christ went through on the cross, becomes reality as you look at His feet.
You put both of your hands on His feet, and looking in no other direction, you begin to say “Thank you”, as you lean toward His feet. As you say this, it’s nothing like what you understood in this life. Now, you free from sin, and whole, in His likeness. Each time you say thank you, you find that you have to say it again, not because it would be expected, but because of the overwhelming understanding of what He went through for you, personally.
May I humbly offer two observations? Although it's common in evangelical churches to hear the term "accept Jesus", this phrase is grossly misleading. Do we actually scrutinize the Lord of all creation to see if we find Him acceptable? May it never be! To "receive" the Gospel as a gift exposes our condition as true beggars. Secondly, our salvation is most certainly NOT exclusively between God and us. We are saved into a community of believers. Nowhere in the NT is the concept of the Lone Ranger Christian taught or advocated. We are members of His body and won't mature but in the context of that community.
thats a great man made sentimental story but you will not find it in the Bible. Rom 3 :11, no one seeks God. we do not accept Him. that is man centered salvation he Chooses us and then and only then do we have the ability to acknowledge him as saviour and Lord. Jesus calls himself Lord way more than saviour.
God is sovereign in All, including salvation.
I read some of the comments and it hurts my heart. The whole world reads these comments and it's full of people called by the name of Christian and arguing and things that don't matter and the underlying bitterness and anger is obvious. The Bible says that the Holy spirit will lead us into all truth. Not pride filled people lashing out in anger. It's not Christ like, wether you agree or not with rc
Why isn't anybody talking clearly about this as you were, dear Sproul? Spanish world needs this. I need to understand this. I know there's something wrong with this.
With me*
fruit of the spirit is inevitable in life of a true believer ... good works is the by product of faith...an evidence that you're truly saved... 1 JOHN 3:6 "" NO ONE who knows Him keeps on sinning..No one who CONTINUE to SIN has either seen Him or known Him.
Mr. Sproul you cannot based salvation on works even a little because it cancels out grace. This is false teaching and heresy!
And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. Romans 11:6
And the book of James is NOT about justification before God, but before man. We should live out our faith so others can see it and be saved, but we are declared righteous before God the moment we believe!
Mhv Last name sproul never understood the gospel
Go back and listen again. Dr. Sproul made it abundantly clear that we are NOT saved by our works.
@@mchristr clearly their eyes have been closed. RC never says works save, they just dont get it.
Grace is not cheap and God is sovereign.
No cheap grace,only a loving God always.
*DO NOT BE DECEIVED: (1) a real Christian can die spiritually; (2) a saving faith can cease to exist (Luke **8:13**), become shipwrecked (1 Tim. **1:19**,20), be destroyed (2 Tim. **2:18**); Spiritual death for the righteous who turn to evil is a FACT!*
And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. Galatians 5:24
It's very simple, if people keep reading after that Paul will go into extensive talk about counterfeit faith and faith without works is dead and that works is evidence of the faith and that true belief means to obey. how people miss this because they're in love with their sin they love their evil that's why they missed it
King James Bible
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Gods word is always the answer. John 3:16-18 Romans 1:16. For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the POWER of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVETH, to the Jew First, and also to the Greek. The GIFT of God is eternal life because no one can earn it. Sinners can no pay their own debt. John 3:18 Romans 3:26-28. Firs Corinthians 1:18. And First Corinthians 1:21 Roman 4:5 Faith alone apart from works. John 6:47 Acts 16:31 Lordship salvation is works salvation. Romans 11:6. If we could be saved by works, then Jesus died in vain. Galatians 2:21. Works makes the cross of Christ of no effect.
This is really not any different at all than what Catholicism teaches on the subject, they just word it differently. Stop trying to harmonize faith and works, it's not possible... just teach the gospel which is what saves if you believe. Can you continue in sin and still be saved? Yes, because we all do, just to different extents. Should we? No. We are all carnal until we die and are glorified
Awesome, Amen >
People who embrace Calvinism/Lordship Salvation arrive at the erroneous conclusion that ONLY Luke 8:15 Christians are saved. They arrive at that conclusion based on the 5 points of Calvinism which is a man made doctrine that is false.
Calvinism teaches that according to the 1st point of Calvinism(total depravity) that man is so depraved and dead that he literally cannot generate any faith on his own to believe in God or come to God.
It then follows that God handpicks and chooses from eternity past a small percentage of people for salvation (unconditional election and limited atonement) by infusing them with the "gift of faith" enabling them to believe. In other words, "regeneration precedes faith" according to Calvinism for the chosen "elect few". They become the only ones that are "saved", but the rest of humanity is "predestined" to hell leaving man a predestined puppet with no free will in regards to his eternal destiny. According to Calvinism, Christ ONLY died for the chosen "elect few".
According to Calvinism, the "gift of faith" that God supposedly infuses on the chosen "elect few" with "irresistible grace" cannot be resisted and is "perfect" in nature. It then follows that this "perfect faith" will not fail to produce commitment, obedience, and perseverance to the end in the chosen "elect few" (perseverance of the saints)
According to Calvinism, if a Christian does not show commitment, obedience, and perseverance to the end, or does not exhibit any "fruit" or "works", or AT SOME POINT falls away into apostasy or grievous sin, then that person is deemed "UNSAVED" because the "evidence" is not there. They will be quick to label such a person as a Luke 8:13 or Luke 8:14 Christian.
This is the main reason why Calvinists and Lordship Salvationists erroneously believe that there is only one kind of Christian, that is, a Luke 8:15 Christian. It leaves no room for failure in the Christian life, be it moral or doctrinal failure and if there is failure, then according to Calvinism, the person was never saved to begin with.
What I just described is the faulty doctrine of Calvinism with its 5 point TULIP.
NONE OF THE 5 POINTS OF THE TULIP LINE UP WITH SCRIPTURE.
It appears that people who embrace Calvinism/Lordship Salvation fail to or deliberately IGNORE the many accounts of true believers who fail morally and doctrinally in the Bible, but are STILL SAVED POSSESSING ETERNAL LIFE.
They ignore the accounts of the Israelites who failed morally and doctrinally as recorded in the Old Testament, and they ignore the accounts of the Corinthian Christians who were saved, but living in gross sin and immorality as recorded all throughout 1 Corinthians. They seem to ignore the account of King David, King Solomon, Samson.
These were clearly Godly people who failed both morally and doctrinally. God punished them in each instance, BUT THEY WERE STILL GOD'S CHILDREN AND SAVED.
Instead of acknowledging these accounts in God's Word about Christians who fail, but are still saved, Calvinists/Lordship Salvationists just love to embrace the 5 points of Calvinism and write off and dismiss failing Christians as "unsaved." Calvinists/Lordship Salvationists are STUBBORNLY WARPED IN THEIR THEOLOGY AND JUST SATURATED WITH DEEP SEATED PRIDE.
You do know that the 5 points of Calvinism was never used to teach the doctrine of Grace also known as Calvinism. The 5 points of Calvinism where written to refute the false damning teaching of the 5 articles of the remonstrant written by followers of Jacobus Arminius :/
***** The doctrine of God's grace is true doctrine, but the doctrine of Calvinism is false to the core. It produces self-righteousness and many followers become chronic "fruit" and "works" inspectors. They look to their works for assurance of salvation rather than look to Christ's finished work on the cross.
wtom04 I suggest studying on What the Doctrine of Grace is. Here is a link to
www.gotquestions.org/doctrines-of-grace.html
the way you pit Calvinism against The Doctrine of grace shows that you do not understand where the doctrine of grace came from.
*****
Don't even bother talking to this guy, He will argue, argue, argue. He completely dismisses HUGE sections of the bible to twist scripture to fit the god in his own head . Redefines what grace is and claims that Jesus ISN'T Lord even though that is spoken of HUNDREDS of times more in the new testament that in fact Jesus is LORD than Savior. He doesn't understand DENYING himself nor does he understand if indeed you are Christ's that you are doulos which means slave and doesn't mean anything else. Which makes sense being that you are bought for a price of our dear Lord's blood. In this guy's world his god is not sovereign. He totally goes against everything in the whole of the bible and picks out parts that suit him that he thinks is fine. In his world, his lord is himself. And that is what Armenian theology consists of. A whole lot of self. Satan is going to come disguised as an angel of light and this is one of many forms. Pray for him though. He won't listen to all of God's word but love him. Take care and blessings!
***** Guess what? I'm sure you do the same thing yourself by taking HUGE passages in the Bible OUT OF CONTEXT and EISEGETING the text in support of Calvinism/Lordship Salvation. For your information, I'm NOT Arminian, but Free Grace.
Your ignorance is glaring. Arminian theology falsely teaches that salvation can be lost based on the Christian's performance. Free Grace theology does not believe in "loss of salvation".
AMEN!
"Sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts"
However yes we should submit to His Lordship because it makes our saved lives a whole lot easier and Jesus certainly helps us when we submit
The question is: Is Lordship a pre-requisite or fruit of salvation
*Death is like a door* *to door salesman*
*He never makes an* *appointment he only* *knocks and un-* *announced If you Die* *in Sin willful Sin you* *will not have been* *Walking the right* *path John**8:21*
Lordy when I was saved initially oh how happy was I until I ran across so theologians. God help my simple faith in Christ.
I was so free when I turned to Christ at first.
Then a word of faith prosperity cult-church got a hold of me...
Now I just got driven out of a hyper grace church and am so thankful to be a bible school student so I can learn the truth and not get swept away by faulty doctrines.
Amen put your faith in Jesus Christ not in the prayer you prayed or your baptism those are necessary but don't put your faith in that put your faith in Jesus Christ
Faith is the fruit.
I agree with him.
Cristian Barker Hi. Are you reformed?
Sproul also mixes up Justification and Salvation as if the terms mean the same things. They do not. Justification leads to Salvation. A person is not saved when they are justified, but God's justifying grace begins the work of salvation in the person. The Reformers strict separation of Sanctification from Justification is a serious error.
The Reformers teach:
Justification = Salvation, which ought to lead to Sanctification.
What the Bible teaches is:
Justification + Sanctification = Salvation.
Justification the word in greek is dikaioo, which means just or innocent:--free, justify(-ier), be righteous.
Salvation is the Greek word soteria, noun; rescue or safety (physically or morally):--deliver, health, salvation.
I would say they are not separate but work harmoniously together because by definition they mean the same. You can say we are made innocent to be righteous to moral health.
Sanctification and Transformation happens simultaneously also Sanctification means; properly, purification, i.e. (the state) purity; concretely a purifier:--holiness, sanctification.
In order to be innocent in the eyes of Holy God I must be made innocent and in order to born of the Holy Spirit I must be brought to moral health (Salvation) and in order to be sanctified or brought into holiness. I don't think any of these can be done without happening simultaneously. We can use a dichotomy if we want but I believe it is simultaneous.
I think if we realize all this happened in eternity past it would be a little easier to understand and accept.
Eph. 1 According as he hath chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love:
Maybe where I'm wrong is the word you used Strictly) I'm not aware of that view. I have never considered myself a Reformer or Calvinist. I try to learn from the Word of God lead and enlightened by the Holy Spirit.
"And I brothers, could not speak to you as to spiritual men, but as carnal, as babies in Christ...for you are still carnal: for since there is envy and strife and division among you, are you not carnal and walk as other men? For when one says, 'I am of Paul ...I am of Apollos; are you not carnal?" 1 Cor. 3:1-3. the reason why Paul calls them carnal was to SHAME them for their immaturity. NOTHING ELSE! the OSAS sin defenders want us to believe that these sins were also included in what Paul termed carnal, "neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God." 1 Cor. 6:9, 10. how do we know that these sins were NOT included in the word carnal? for one, anyone who commits these type of sins WILL NOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD, even if he was previously saved! these sins REVERSE the destination of a Christian. another reason we know these Corinthians were NO longer behaving impiously is given in the next v. 11, "And such WERE some of you, but you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God." Paul called them carnal so they would end the partisan spirit by which they were behaving. end of story! OSAS promoters want to include sins of immorality, evil, dishonesty, deception, etc. they want us to believe there are Christian adulterers, liars, drunkards, swindlers, slanderers..etc. in order to make such an immoral statement, one has to be living in vile sins himself. a true saint of God, who was delivered from the dominion and defilement of these type of sins, will NEVER make such an statement. why? because he knows if he were to return to such ungodly behavior, he would lose his salvation. a saint of God knows that "without holiness no one will see the Lord." Heb. 12:14. BTW there is no OSAS sin defender in the planet that can defend this heresy against these Scriptures:
, "but each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own lust and enticed; then when lust has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when is fully grown, it brings forth DEATH. Do not be deceived, my beloved BROTHERS." James 1:14-16. "BROTHERS, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone brings him back, let him know that he who turns the sinner from the error of his way, will save a soul from DEATH and cover a multitude of sins." James 5:19, 20. "therefore, BROTHERS, we are debtors not to the flesh to live according to the flesh, for IF you live according to the flesh, you will DIE. But if by the Spirit, you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will LIVE." Rom. 8:12, 13. "If anyone sees his BROTHER committing a sin not leading to DEATH, he shall ask and God will give life to those who commit sin not leading to DEATH....All unrighteousness is sin and there is a sin not leading to DEATH." 1 John 5:16, 17. "and through your knowledge, the weak BROTHER will PERISH, for whom Christ died. 1 Cor. 8:11. "Take care, BROTHERS, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in DEPARTING from the living God. But exhort one another daily, as long as it is called "Today," so that none of you will be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we have become partakers of Christ, IF we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast until the end." Heb. 3:12-14.
Those who put there thumbs down would have to be a carnal Christian
Carnal Christian = Lukewarm Revelation 3:16
I had no idea people didn't know that salvation is salvation from sin as well as from hell...Look, if something claims it's a fish, and then has to ask whether or not it should have to live in and swim in the water, chances are it's not a fish. People who even have to ask if it is necessary to "accept" Jesus as LORD, in my opinion, have neither part nor lot in this matter and are still in the gall of bitterness. (my brain still reels from the absurdity of such a question; sinner, if HE had cast you into Hell right this moment (and justly so), you would still be bound to acknowledge HIS Lordship even if HE no longer bestows upon you a single drop of grace from now on... did HE not create you and all that you have? The impudence to ask, as if you'd do it only because you wanted Heaven, but not Heaven's KING).There is a world of difference between a being a professor of religion (that is, church member) and a Christian. The field is filled with tares among the wheat. The LORD knows those that are HIS.
I knew it and Jesus testifies to the reality of it in Matt 7:21-23. The problem is what is coming from most pulpits. Grace is always a free gift and not an empowering life. Jesus even said " I came that they might have life and have it more abundantly. He also said if your not willing to take up the cross you are not worthy to be called His disciple.
The Greek word Sotria / Salvation is moral health and the word and the word Sozo means heal, protect make whole. So we can see from this that we are delivered to a moral life and Heaven is only a byproduct of it. Also the word Grace Charis means (as gratifying), of manner or act (abstract or concrete; literal, figurative or spiritual; ESPECIALLY the divine influence upon the heart, and its reflection in the life. If that would be taught it would get rid of a lot of this unmerited favor to go to Heaven stuff.
I am a respecter of the late R. C. Sproul, but do not agree with him on many things... He spent over twenty minutes on this subject, without reference to a single verse of scripture. He also spends a lot of time quoting historical theologians and their philosophies, more than the Bible... Martin Luther, as great a man that he was, should not be quoted as though he were the Mind of Christ (Scripture). He had many false ideas... While I agree that "aisle walkers" arent necessarily saved, if it was done for show, instead of from sincerity. But who are the self-appointed "fruit inspectors" of our lives, to make this determination?? How much fruit (works) must a Christian yield, before he's justified? One apple? A bushel? Ten bushels? What if the new believer was a moral, ethical, and upright person, before he was saved, and his life appeared to change little, if at all? No ... Salvation is a gift bestowed at a point in time... Once we are His child, he never lets us go, but he will severely discipline in this life... But he will not evict us from His Etrnal Family. Faith alone, in Christ alone!
That's the reason why I don't read theologian books,but spend time looking for reference from the bible.
THE LORD IS LORD IN MY LIFE
Romans 4:5-8 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on Him who justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for His righteousness. Romans 4:6. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord imputeth righteousness apart from works. Blessed is the man whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
Romans 3:26-28 For He is the just and the justifier of them that believe in Jesus. Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what Law? By the law of works? Nay, but by the law of faith. Therefore we conclude a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law.
Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, and we all sin, First John 1:8, and we all die, but the GIFT of God is eternal life, through Jesus Christ our Lord. John 3:16-18 Believers can no longer be condemned to hell. Ephesians 1:13-14 Our guarantee of eternal life. Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the Holy Spirit in whom ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
First John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God, that ye may know ye have eternal life. John 6:47 Verily, verily I say unto you, he that believeth on me hath (present tense) everlasting life. John 6:40 and John 6:29. Romans 11:6. All grace, no works. You can not earn eternal life. The gift of God is eternal life. Since it is a gift, we have nothing to boast in. You can not boast in free. Ephesians 2:8-9.
Romans 11:29 For the GIFTS, eternal life, and the calling of God, John 12:32 are without repentance. Irrevocable, Can not be changed back.
What if a person has faith WITH works but LATER does not? According to this teaching , one could become lazy and STOP DOING THE WORKS THEY DID AT FIRST, not repent,and still inherit the promise! We must LOOK AT OUR PRESENT CONDITION NOT THE PAST. Paul said to look forward. Calvinism teaches once u see fruit you ARE TRULY SAVED and will persevere. But if LATER have no fruit you are still saved because you WILL repent or other times they will say you were NEVER “TRULY” SAVED TO BEGIN WITH if u didn’t repent. Makes no sense
Romans 6:1,2 What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? 2 May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?
Are people who called themselves Christians and use the grace of God as a licence to live a sinful lifestyle really saved?
Wayne Hampson
no
+Tess W Regarding the man who was sleeping with his stepmother, Paul gave an update regarding that man in 2 Corinthians 2:6-11. Here is what Paul had to say:
"6 Sufficient to such a man is this punishment, which was inflicted of many.
7 So that contrariwise ye ought rather to FORGIVE HIM, and COMFORT HIM, lest perhaps such a one should be swallowed up with overmuch sorrow.
8 Wherefore I beseech you that ye would CONFIRM YOUR LOVE TOWARD HIM.
9 For to this end also did I write, that I might know the proof of you, whether ye be obedient in all things.
10 To whom ye forgive any thing, I forgive also: for if I forgave any thing, to whom I forgave it, for your sakes forgave I it in the person of Christ;
11 Lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices.
It appears that God had MERCY on this sinning Christian man and did not terminate his physical life as Paul initially recommended, but was instead subjected to CHURCH DISCIPLINE.
JUDE 1 : 3 - 4
Dear friends, I had been eagerly planning to write to you about the salvation we all share. But now I find that I must write about something else, urging you to defend the faith that God has entrusted once for all time to his holy people.
I say this because some ungodly people have wormed their way into your churches, saying that God's marvelous grace allows us to live immoral lives. The condemnation of such people was recorded long ago, for they have denied our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.
Since this verse is talking about YOU, wtom04, forgive me if I don't carry on a discussion with you. If you can't understand this verse in Jude, you're not interested in truth. I don't argue with the willfully deceived.
Have a nice day.
JUDE 1 : 3 - 4
Dear friends, I had been eagerly planning to write to you about the salvation we all share. But now I find that I must write about something else, urging you to defend the faith that God has entrusted once for all time to his holy people.
I say this because some ungodly people have wormed their way into your churches, saying that God's marvelous grace allows us to live immoral lives. The condemnation of such people was recorded long ago, for they have denied our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.
Since this verse is talking about YOU, wtom04, forgive me if I don't carry on a discussion with you. If you can't understand this verse in Jude, you're not interested in truth. I don't argue with the willfully deceived.
Have a nice day.
+Tess W The text of 2 Corinthians 2:6-11 refutes your false doctrine regarding the man in 1 Corinthians 5:1-5.
So, what works did the thief offer? He had faith, but no works. RC said he would have no justification.
You chose an instance in were the individual was physically incapable of doing any good work for the Lord, having his hands nailed to a tree and you say he wasn't justified. That's like saying you can't be saved right before death because you didn't produce the fruit. Down right ridiculous.
Ed, you are mistaken . In the beginning hours of the crucifixion , both thieves reviled Christ. But later one thief after witnessing the manner in which Jesus died and interceded for his tormentors BELIEVED in Christ and asked to be remembered in His Kingdom .
Tyler Clegg where in scripture does it say there is an exception for those incapable of doing works? Now you're just making things up
RC is an idiot, unsaved and going to hell.
Does the R C in R C Sproul stand for Roman Catholic
+The ElderScrollsNerd
*Obviously not!* (I can't believe you even asked that. it's NOT the slightest bit funny either.)