His mistake was taking off. I don't think anyone is "ripping" them, they are saying even being in the situation was ridiculous, as the sky said "If this is even legal for you at this point, this is a no-no for any thinking VFR pilot." It very much seemed as if this situation was flown into strictly to provide content.
It’s not just the decision to go, it’s the very fact of flying into an obviously visible cloud layer. It’s hard to understand how it happened unless it was somehow on purpose.
Ignore each and every comment which reads that you could have continued on, and would have popped out of IMC in no time at all. It's that sort of mindset which kills complacent pilots... as they actually fly deeper into the soup. Pilots can NEVER, EVER be too safe or overly cautious. Thank you for possessing the humility to share your experience. Continue to have safety at the forefront, and may blue be the skies above you!
I agree with you, in this flight, absolutely, but it also depends on your location greatly. Example, if your mountain flying and this happens a 30 deg bank may put you in the side of a mountain. If you are familiar with the terrain, continuing straight and getting ATC help, may be the safest option.
I don't want to sound completely ignorant... but looking at the clouds during takeoff should have immediately told you those weather reports were incorrect...
Checking in four years later just to agree. While their heart is certainly in the right place, and we can never talk about VFR into IMC enough, I would say this video is an example of what not to do. They should have never left the ground after taking one look at the sky if flying VFR -- I think the fact that they were instrument trained, just not current, skews this video a great deal.
It isn`t easy judging clouds from the ground. Smarter and better pilots than me have done similar mistakes, so I don`t want to say that it could never happen to me. Glad you made it back safely, and decided to share this with us. It might help me remember how it`s better to be on the ground wishing you were flying, rather than in the air wishing you were on the ground.
Really getting tired of people fishing for clicks with misleading vid titles. That being said, it's fairly obvious shortly after takeoff, that despite the expected VFR conditions, at best the initial leg of the trip would be in marginal VFR and quite likely worse. There's much more to this "decision" than this video suggests. What was the purpose of the trip? Business? Recreational? Where there any pireps available. I flew for the Air Force and a major scheduled airline and my kid is current IFR but with very little actual. Had I taken him to the airport, given what the weather looked like at the time, I would have told him to cancel the trip.Phil Birkelbach nailed. A simple eyeball test should have told the pilot that the ceiling was considerably lower than 2,600' and the METAR had it wrong.
I do not understand how anyone would "thumbs down" your item. On training X-country I faced VFR into IMC situation with only a couple of flights under the hood experience. The ground rose up to meet cloud-base. It became decidedly misty with a fierce head-wind. Like you I turned back and like you - I am still alive. Well done you.
If you have just entered cloud inadvertently (not easy to do actually if your eyes are open!) from the clear air below then the FIRST thing to do is NOT to try a turn in the cloud but to descend straight ahead to clear air which is not more than a few feet below. Then start the turn in the clear.
I’m not a pilot, so forgive my ignorance here, but it appears to me that from the runway, the ceiling is extremely low. Why take off at all? What am I missing? Thanks.
You cannot visually tell how high a cloud is with reference to something with known ht. Clouds can be 3100 ft and look low. Thats still legal VFr and u could fly fine from point a to b. Problem is changing conditions and or personal mins. Set them and follow them. Doest seem like this person checked. BEfore they left. But ive had weather change completely even with preflight brief. Try living by large lake-michigan or ocean
I'm the first person to say that you never question a pilot that gets the airplane safely on the ground. Good call on the return to the airport. That being said I think that there is room to learn from this. First, too much faith in the METAR. The Mark V Eyeball could have told you that was not a 2600 ft ceiling. Next, get established before you look down at the radio. Fly the airplane first then worry about all those silly people on the ground that may or may not want to talk to you anyway. ATC is a great help but they are of no use if your tears are running into your hair. Also, don't make the turn in IMC. Put the nose down, wings level descend out of the clouds and then make the turn. Once you start that turn it's much easier to get disoriented. (Obviously if you are instrument trained this is not as big of an issue) Keep the wings level until you can see the horizon again. Use the autopilot if you have one. Again, good job on getting the airplane back on the ground. We all make bad calls and usually we survive them. I've had a similar incident to the one you had. I also survived but I'll not do it again and I'd caution others against the same mistakes. Thank you for posting the video, it may save someones life.
Lol. At the end of your 3rd paragraph you should add... "Plus, forget about the stupid youtube commenters that don't know how to fly and say stupid shit". You would have tons of up votes!!!! Great comment btw. (notapilot and I say stupid shit sometimes). :^)
The thin gap of sky between cloud base and horizon was a clear give-away that any further climb would put you in the clouds. No need to postpone the 180 decision until just few seconds tuning the radio might get you into IMC. Remember that when something is at your altitude it will appear to touch the horizon - cloud base in this case. If the cloud base appears to be just about to touch the horizon you are about to fly into IMC. Thanks for posting.
This is why I always navigate by instrument and do all precision non precision approaches all the time. I love staying current to deal with situations like this much easier.
TheTimeTraveler2025 the worst thing. Abrupt changes in motion is the onset to spacial disorientation. As I said too much VFR flying will make me less instrument proficient.
Being IFR certified in WA and OR is also silly unless you fly something big. Can't fly in IMC during the cold months due to icing, and during warmer months it's all over mountains, forest, or water with little to no options.
I’m a very safe pilot because I stopped flying years ago.... But from my limited under the hood training when I got my private ticket, I would get the aircraft briefly straight and level on the dials and THEN initiate a gentle turn to do a 180 out of of the soup. I heard that stall warning horn right after entry into IMC. That made me nervous just watching the video.
Ok this video is pretty old by now, but I’ll put my two cents in anyway. First, while the go/no go decision was questionable for a VFR flight, the pilot made the right choice to do the 180 degree turn, and executed it well. The stall horn going off gave me a scare, but it seems she lowered the nose enough to avoid a stall when she heard it. If she had looked out of the window, looking for ground for a few seconds too long rather than looking at the instruments, this could have had a different outcome. My advice would be to get that IFR rating and stay current. On a long flight or one in questionable visibility conditions, just file IFR and execute the flight plan. That way, encountering clouds is no big deal. I recently did this - took off in an IFR flight plan where the clouds were 1000 feet AGL at the departure airport. On the climb I distinctly told myself, “here they come (the clouds), heads down…” I was in the clouds for all of a minute or so, then broke out on top with unlimited visibility, and continued my flight (on the IFR plan) to the destination with no problems. Finally, If you are planning a somewhat long flight, simulate it at home a few times first. Pc flight simulators are quite affordable these days. Even though you couldn’t log it as training, the simulator can show you things to look out for.
I'm so happy to see when a pilot makes the right decision and turns back. I was just watching accident analysis videos and some pilots encountered the same situation as you, but sadly they, for whatever reason decided to press on. And unfortunately it didn't only take their life, but multiple family members lives as well, including young children. Thank you for sharing your story!
Thanks for the response. I too watch the same videos and I count my blessings. I often wonder WHY some feel the inherent, albeit absurd need to push on. I truly count my blessings..
I know which accident analysis video you’re talking about are you referring to the family that flew out of California to Nevada Where are the pilot was not instrument rated but flew in IMC anyway?
@@gmccord1970 Yes! I'm obviously not a pilot, but I just don't understand why people would take a risk like that. Especially when they have their family with them. I have to remind myself how safe flying actually is. I watched a bunch of horrible videos on The Flight Channel, and it had me freaked out for a bit lol...
Yes, you're missing the fact that the guy has been taught to trust the weather reports to a certain degree. As well as the fact that he had prepared his mind for a flight. What seems to have missed your attention is the fact that he was able to shipt gears quite quickly and make Corrections. Too bad you have to insult people who end up doing the right thing.
Taking off and flying towards an obvious approaching weather front is a bit daft if you're not IMC current. I also find flaps quite useful on takeoff/approach/landing.
You know what? Thanks for having the courage to put this up, and the kindness to keep responding to comments on it 7+ years later. Subscribing. This is going to change how I look at low ceilings going forward. My #1 takeaway - WTH were people doing taking off into the pattern when the ceiling was at pattern altitude? I can't wrap my head around that one. The question I have is - the altitude was 1500 MSL, but what was the pattern altitude AGL? Asking because most patterns are 1000', but some used to be 700'. I know I can do 700, but it's been a while since I've practiced it, and now I'm thinking I want to keep that skill up. To twist around a different saying, "everybody has a plan until they unexpectedly fly into clouds". You survived, and that's awesome. Willing to bet you'll never get close to that again.
It's always fascinating watching these videos. Thanks for sharing. I had my own VFR into IMC once, and I'm only PPL with no instrument training and 100 hours flight time. Happened in central Utah, was around 3-4K AGL flying south over Richfield (KRIF) with clouds in the distance. And they closed in FAST, with rain. Pretty much went from 3 miles vis to maybe 0.5 miles instantly. I knew I had just passed over KRIF a couple miles behind me, so immediately dropped power and went into a descending 180 turn. Around 1000 AGL the vis was maybe a mile (at best) and flew her straight in. The only reason that experience wasn't terrifying is because I knew I had that airport there so there was no panic on my part. I'm pretty sure it wasn't more than 5 minutes from cruise to landing. Without that airport? I don't even want to think about it.
The audio was more descriptive of your "dire" situation here! I fully expected to see dark, hooded figures to pop up similarly to haunted houses commercials. Very creative!
Nice job!!! My dad was IFR rated and when I was in clouds at 0 visibility, the hardest thing to do was trust what your instruments tell you, not what you "feel". Excellent advice.
Yea, you flew right into them... saw them coming by a mile. Looks like they were about 100ft thick. Since you were in them, instead of turning I would suggest you just held your attitude for a few seconds to get on top of them. Your turn could've killed most people, however as I said, this was completely avoidable as you appeared to have just flown right towards and then into them.
I'm not a pilot, but I have a good friend who is, and he is always stressing safety and has had to make the same decision trying to land at Astoria, too. Not panicking and following proper procedures are the two most important things to remember when getting into trouble, he says. Good work!
Upon landing after something like that, I generally quickly get out of the aircraft and start dry humping the earth at that point.... As long as nobody from the FBO sees me.
Thanks for putting in the effort to get this up to share with us. Loved the soundtrack and effects. You handled a scary situation calmly and safely, well done. It's important to remember that at some point we are all going to end up in a situation where things feel they are getting away from us, and we are never going to be the first person it has happened to. Learning from others mistakes helps us all. Thanks for dropping your ego enough to allow us to see how we can deal with a situation like this. Cheers
Well, thank you Sir. And ur correct. I've learned from so many other pilots on UA-cam. What to do and certainly, what NOT to do. I appreciate the response. Thanks.
People make bad judgement calls, what's important is that you walked away from it safely. I suspect that half of the people criticizing you here aren't even licensed PPLs, and the rest of them are lying if they've never looked at a sketchy METAR and said, "I think I'll be alright." To err is human. Those who are criticizing her for landing with the Cessna on takeoff roll: While this wasn't an emergency in the sense that the FAA would consider it one to be declared, this was a personal emergency for a VFR pilot. It is unlikely that the Cessna would have made an RTO, and even if it did, there is grass on the side of the runway for a reason. The plane is not on rails when it hits the ground. She was doing her best to get the thing on the ground so the clouds didn't land before she did.
The fact that this is a pilot account, not an NTSB analysis, is a strong indicator for something having gone well. Oh, you didn't get at your destination, at the cost of being alive. Good choice.
Hey man, get your arrogant head out of your arrogant ass. Read what he said at the start of the video. I am afraid that you may miss it AGAIN, so here it is: "After a WX brief that gave a great VFR outlook..." I do not know if you know this or not, but arrogance and aviation do not mix too well.
hey dick weed Joe W ray charles could see that was not a VFR day if it would have been VFR on top he would have had to file IFR to get there but why should I explain that to a worthless non pilot piece of shit for anyway.. A fucking outlook is not what the weather actually is you stupid fuck its an out look not an observation you non pilot shit talking nobody.
You kept your cool, remembered your training, and got yourself out of a bad situation. You didn't try to be some cowboy hero and push it beyond your capabilities. Well played, and a great lesson for people who tend to overestimate their capabilities! Thank God you lived to fly another day. 🤗
In my studies I'm finding this to be a significant killer of general aviators. Great video. Sometimes accident reports don't always give the presence of how quickly conditions can deteriorate.
In the PNW a bunch of METARS showing 2000-3000 foot ceilings is definitely not a “VFR weather” day. Terrain is constantly fluctuating anywhere between 200ft to as high as 3000ft. Glad things turned out ok!
First off, you dont take off in that weather if you are not IR rated unless you can be 100% positive that you will maintain visual with the ground. And the most important thing, never bank at a 30 degree angle in IMC. Bank at rate one turn (3 degrees per second), start your timer for 60 seconds and roll wings level back at the same course that you entered the clouds at. There is always a chance that the heading indicator will stop working.
Awesome job and great decision-making! You kept your cool and used your head to get yourself out of a poor situation at the right time, which I'm sure lots of VFR pilots who are no longer with us wished they'd done, too. Thanks for sharing your video!
I`m just a student pilot. I wouldn`t dare fly in those conditions. That said, It didn`t look that bad to me at the beginning. I expected those clouds to be much higher.
You did precisely the right thing by doing a 180 with standard-rate turn & returning to your origin airport. IFR training really helps in instances such as this. You can visit your friend again at some future time.
That wasn’t standard. IR turn limit is 25° or rate one whichever requires less. He turned at 30 degrees which is way beyond the limit because you cannot time the turn in case you lose instruments.
Initiate that 180° turn using the artificial horizon to provide you with situational awareness, keep aware of airspeed (stall, maneuvering, vne) and altitude at all times. Do not: - panic - abruptly provide full aileron/rudder input - keep relying on your senses Doing so will likely cause you to spin out, dive, resulting in even more panic that causes abrupt over-corrective inputs which may overload the airframe leading to an in flight breakup, and finally the crash.
Excellent message and video. Good for you. As a former VFR pilot with limited hours, I remember several "pucker"-inducing moments down here in Southern California. Excellent song you used also, btw. Loved that movie years ago.
The METAR told you good chance of visible moisture. you didn't have the red box around the temp/dew point . You could have also requested a local IFR clearance since you were talking to ATC.
He said he was not current, But I assume he was IFR rated. Flying VFR into IMC would be considered an emergency.So 91.3 would come into play. Not saying he was wrong just adding another option. I would rather write a report to the FAA than have pilot error written on my grave stone.
Those clouds didn't just appear. He's trolling. He could have punched through the holes but violated the cloud clearance just to make a video. There was no emergency here except the for the other pilots sharing the airspace. Knock Knock, who's there? FAA
Well that didn't take long to fly into soup. Smart to turn and return. I don't understand why so many pilots opt to continue in IMC despite having only VFR qualifications and competencies
This makes me feel blessed. I was once in a Cherokee rental piloted by my friend Kevin, a student pilot with about 90 hours time. Flying from SD to San Luis Obispo VFR the clouds rolled in at 3000' and the ascended to 10000' - thus flying thru 7000' of clouds, blind. I guess it's a miracle of some proportion he maintained control ! Once on top all we saw was cloud layer everywhere. Flight Service eventually "talked him down" and we landed at Bubank Intl with fuel mostly exhausted, but safely down thru the IMC. Praise the Lord & Kevin kept his cool but was waaaay over his head VFR into IMC. I suspect that was his last experience as a pilot !
Years ago, I experienced an identical go/nogo situation flying a Cessna 172 with my Sister and her friend out of VNY (Van Nuys, California) on a short jaunt to SBA (Santa Barbara) with a weather briefing that would keep us well below forecast minimums with a base in excess of 2000' or so we expected. With several flights to SBA racked up in only 120 logged hours and maybe 3 hours IMC training, I had no interest in pushing the limits and already had a backup plan in my mind to turn around if things went South. Southwest as we were flying lol. Only about 240 seconds out of VNY my VMC quickly turned to IMC. I had no hesitation whatsoever to immediately bank 30 and pull a 180 back to the pattern while i called out my intentions to the tower. I escaped IMC as quickly as I had entered it and advised my Sister our flight to the coast was not going to happen today. After spending a couple days last week reviewing flight crash investigations here on youtube its a shame to see how many pilots had clear warning of potentially dangerous conditions yet did not make the best decisions that ultimately cost lives. Hats off to blkpylut for posting this video experience of exactly what to do if and when you ever find yourself in this dangerous situation! I have no doubt this video will likely save a life or several.
1) You could see the cloud layer from the ground. 2) You are supposed to stay 500ft below the clouds. 3) Most importantly, I would NEVER attempt to try any kind of turn in IMC. Just keep the wings level and reduce power until you are out of the clouds. MUCH SAFER!!
It sounds like the stall horn a couple seconds after you got into the clouds. Hard to tell from the camera angle, but were you pitching up? Going too slow? I've flown into clouds before and the effect of 'brain freeze' that happens is real. If you were managing the deteriorating cloud situation, the traffic around you, AND the stall horn goes off...it's very easy to pull on the yoke and make a bad situation much worse. GOOD ON YOU for keeping your head, flying the airplane, and returning to the airport. The video isn't long but the lesson is memorable for those of us pilots out here constantly learning.
This is amazing and very enlightening in the aftermath of what just happened to the renown Basketball Legend. I had a very similar experience on my 1st solo and 'halled' it back to the airport.
@@zach4195 it came from out of nowhere. That's why they include aeronautical decision making in the training my friend. In my case my CFI has done a great job. I'm not sure I understand you!??😳🤔❓
Thanks for posting. I have gotten myself to an almost IFR condition once. Having had that kind of weather, I would have grounded myself. OVC of 2600 feet to me is a no go for VFR FOR ME. Glad it turned out well for you.
I think it’s about the combination of both visibility being limited and cloud deck being low. The pilot couldn’t see the ceiling clearly and flew into it. You need either a good visibility or a high ceiling to fly safely.
From the minute you left the airstrip that looked like flying into IMC. Not real clear to me as to what you were thinking you were flying into? clouds everywhere .....
2600 foot overcast is not good VFR, especially if you're trying to fly over pretty high hills to Astoria (unless you were going to go around and follow Columbia river, even then not a lot of available altitude). I think your attitude towards "good" VFR needs a bit of recalibration. You could see those low clouds from the ramp, come on.
I know it’s beyond cliche to say, but it’s so true: *It is ALWAYS better to be down on the ground, wishing you were up in the air, than to be up in the air, wishing you were back on the ground.*
On my long solo cross country I went OLM-HQM-AST-KLS-OLM... Well, the same "ceiling not available" alert was happening at some coastal weather stations. I ended up over the beach with a wall of clouds of either side of me, "funneling" me in one direction. There were a bunch of small clouds that I kept popping in and out of because I couldn't distinguish them from the surrounding "grayness". It was very scary because I had so few hours and hadn't encountered much if any "actual" weather before. Glad you got out OK, lighting conditions like that make it nearly impossible to see some clouds and you don't know until you're in them! Make sure you file an ASRS report :)
Excellent video (and musical score). You were/are smart and decisive; knew your limitations and took action immediately. Did not panic nor lose self control. Good thing no mountainous terrain applied. Where I live, that is what many VFR pilots fly into under those marginal to deteriorating conditions.
Excellent job! and I would suggest a standard rate turn for the 180 turn as well as for you to get an instrument rating. Also check out the FAA Wings program. Again, great decision to turn back to known VFR!
Just the observable WX conditions alone before T/O would tell you to stay home. Given the area which is characteristically moisture prone adds even more to the scenario.
Thanks for sharing. Glad to see you made it safely to the ground. I only have about 100 hours flying up here in the PNW but I would not call that good VFR conditions. The weather report is one piece of information. Walking outside looking at the skies towards the horizon told a completely different story. A great example of how quickly we can get into trouble.
It looked scary because the predicted weather was better than the actual weather, (although the predicted and actual weather were not exactly what I'd call great VFR). I'm a student pilot with only a few hours, all in super VFR...however, your video reminded me of a lesson years ago where the instructor was yakking his head off as i flew into a descending ceiling plus snow precipitation, and I kept saying "it looks like the ceiling is slanting downwards and we're flying into it" while he just continued to yak about his family and light another cigarette...until I said very loudly, "uh we are totally into the clouds and I can't see anything" to which he hurriedly said, "My plane. I've got the controls" and did a 180. I never flew with him again
Wowww. I've never heard of an instructor being careless and lacking Situational Awareness like that. Good going to dump him. Most instructors teach the theory of Marginal VFR flight. Take a look at my MVFR video. I hope it helps u recognise the danger of deteriorating weather. :-)
I am an IFR rated pilot and agree with everything seen below about trusting your isntruments and always being aware of your airspeed and attitude. I think another important thing that alot of people over look now adays is the temp/dewpoint. especially when weather doesnt look super promising. being aware of the temp dew point allows you to calculate the cloud bases, that being said thats assuming there are reporting station in the area that are functioning and up to date. some times these things happen and i think this pilot did a really great job giving the situation. (not for instructional use just my 2 cents)
I fly on Long Island and almost every pilot that flys there KNOWS the super fast fog that rolls in off the ocean during the summer months. The fog layer is not very thick but enough for a/p to go IFR. I was heading back from a 45 min. Trip and saw the fog rolling in. I contacted tower about 20 miles out and as I got closer I knew the a/p was going to go IFR so i set myself up for an ILS approach (I was not instrument rated at the time, but always practiced ILS approaches just in case) when I was 10 miles out, the tower informed me they were goIng IFR very soon. I told them I was going to use the ILS approach and I was already on the glideslope. They cleared me to land then they went IFR. I wanted to land before I lost minimums as the fog hugs the ground. I did not panic nor made any eratic maneuvers. I just flew the ILS until I saw the runway and landed. The fog had already touched the end of the runway and as I was taxiing back I looked back and could not see the end of the runway anymore as the visability dropped til 1/2 mile. It was like the fog was chasing me. When i parked the plane it was mike a scene out of a horror movie. Shy was a very dark gray with very limited disability. Since there are no a/p on the north side of the island, and JFK or LGA was not even entertainable, I would have to fly to Conneticut if I was unable to land at my intended a/p. Needless to say, I got my rating a few months later. This fog overtakes the south shore of Long Island in a matter of minutes. You see boaters race to the shore but get caught up in it often. Always KNOW where you are, and any airports around you. Dont be stupid, don't continue flight put the plane down safely or do a 180 and get the he'll out of there. Amd remember ATC is there to HELP. Dont be too proud to ask for help, your job is to keep the plane under your control. JFK jr did NOT do that. Instead he continued flight, and did not have the plane under his control, see how that worked out for him?
A good lesson learned and thanks for sharing. Most who find themselves in this predicament are probably low time private pilots without the benefit of instrument training. In that regard, standard rate turns of three degrees per second (15.38 degree bank in a C-172 vice a 30 degree bank) taught during instrument training is probably a better recommendation. Not trusting your instruments in IMC is a serious issue and aircraft is more stable (gets out of hand slower) in pitch than bank so a calm, SRT IMHO is a safer move to execute. Just my $.02 food for thought.
Agree completely Chuck. Standard rate 180 should be the way to get out of inadvertent IMC. One minute turn 180 degrees, nice and steady. Less of a chance of a pilot induced unusual attitude trying to bank 30 degrees quickly
Robert Anderson doing my IFR long cross country next week in prep for my check ride. IFR training provided an insightful perspective to my VFR private pilot training. Knowing where I came from as a private pilot to where I am now, IFR training provided those essential tools to recover from inadvertent flight into IMC and made me more comfortable about white out flying in the clouds.
Chuck Kendzierski good work! I think the million dollar question we should ask ourselves when we consider inadvertent IMC is this, why not get an instrument rating? An instrument rating makes you a better pilot, adds more tools to your toolbox, and would have been of serious help attempting to go cross county with an 1800 foot ceiling. Good luck with your training!
Robert Anderson I got my private pilots license in 91. I haven’t looked at the ACS since then but would assume enough time isn’t allotted to this form of training. I’m not sure if training under the hood is enough vice having the experience of flying in the clouds. Being in white out conditions for several minutes is a blast when you trust your instruments. Takes a bit to get over what your senses tell you. Just back from my long IFR cross country earlier today. Now onto prep for the check ride.
Thanks for posting, it looked scary for a few minutes but you did the right thing and did a 180. I may have been tempted to drop down out of it rather than do a 180 (which I accept is what we teach) but of course this would depend on knowledge of the terrain you were flying in. Nevertheless you held it together and got yourself out of it. It looked like your flying deteriorated even once you got free of the clouds so I suspect you were somewhat rattled. It can happen to all of us and indeed happened to me not so long ago when I misjudged a climb on top and ended up in full IMC - I did a 180 descending turn as I knew we were over a flat plain and the bases were well high enough for me to do it. I was very relieved though once I got myself out of the soup!! All of these videos are good reminders of what can happen even with momentary lapses of concentration / judgement. I have an Intrument Rating but nevertheless I still found it an uncomfortable experience and it is surprising how long it can take your brain to catch up!!
....BEST post. Most are BEATING this poor guy up. Sure, there are lessons here to be learned: in a nutshell, DON’T FLY ABOVE YOUR RATING! If flying VFR...STAY VFR, Clear of clouds. THIS particular day was a NO-GO...
Starting a turn immediately after encountering IMC is not the most ideal solution. You were perfectly VMC just prior to that, so wings level, throttle back and descent will bring you VMC below. Then return to the field or stay VMC below. Just my opinion.
In modern flight school VFR students are trained to execute a standard rate turn for one minute as soon as the encounter IMC as it has been determined to be the fastest and safest corse of action in most situations.
They were at 1800’ MSL. The last thing you want to do is descend and start skud running because you have no idea in an instant if there are towers, terrain or other obstacles below you. You also don’t know how low those clouds go once you are into them. There is just not enough time in that situation to check your flight software or maps. Trust your instruments! They were flying at a safe elevation at the moment so the second wisest thing to do is standard rate turn and go back where you were VMC. The wisest thing to do is check the forecast along your route of flight and make a proper go-no go decision. Good teaching video for seeing how fast things can change and how remembering your training will save your life.
As soon as I saw the weather you received, I was thinking, "nope, I wouldn't be flying VFR in that." Looking up in the sky before you left the ground should have reinforced that decision to stay on the ground. But you went up anyway, maybe just to "take a look." Then you encountered even lower CIGs than were reported/forecast. You waited until you entered clouds before starting back. As soon as you were within 500 feet of that ceiling, you should have been turning back. But then you broke the accident chain (finally!) by executing an immediate 180 and returning to the airport. First good decision of the day. You did pull a bit hard, you could hear the stall horn sounding in your turn, which was a bit scary. All in all a good outcome at the end, and hopefully you learned something. I'd encourage you to get your instrument ticket, if you haven't already since you posted this video six years ago. It opens a world of flying options (and skills) to you.
Every pilot should have IFR training as soon as possible! In Canada, you cannot get a private license without spin training, stall training, and I think it was 5 hours basic IFR training.
The weather can change at the drop of a hat. I found myself in the same situation years ago, maybe a bit worse. In a second, weather changed from VFR to nothing but clouds out my front windshield. I was able to follow a river back to the airport (LUK) by looking down and out of my side window. I later found that I was not the only one caught in the "soup" that day.
Tim, so glad to have met you today!! Will be posting the video of my flight very soon. Today was soooo beautiful!! Good luck getting checked out in the Arrow!!
Don’t turn so sharply in IMC. standard rate turns only. Also, had you caught it you probably could have safely descended and turned VMC but in any case…. Was that the stall horn going off in the turn???
Bad habit. Not to lecture (because I'm nowhere near a perfect pilot), but the speed difference on a no flap landing may not seem like much, but the impact velocity is a ton compared to a full flaps landing. That extra 10 knots matters. I know no flaps landings feel great and like greasers, but it's a false sense.
If you accidentally fly into IMC - DO NOT initiate a turn based on a bank angle. A standard rate turn would be best. Who taught you to make a 30 degree bank turn in IMC? Also... you say IFR trained not current. ??? You mean IFR rated not current?
It looks like you're flying out of Takoma, Wash? My VFR personal mins may not be suitable for you (not sure). blkpylut I once flew a reported 5mi VIS during training and it was terrible. I've also flown VFR as PIC with fwd vis was very poor (no horizon anywhere) but I could see 20+ on a slant to the ground. I continued that flight but it was unfair to my pax who was on a 1st flight and I gave him the controls for a few minutes. He had a tough time keeping the wings level. I've also had the experience of VFR-IMC. I don't consider a 180* as the "best" solution to the problem in all situations. In my case it required a loss of altitude to remain VFR. I had clouds that were forecast at 11,000 on night flight from Charlotte to DC and I kept running into them at ~5500 during my expected climb to 7,500. Keep your options open; know where your outs are; be aware of terrain and man-made obstacles. In some conditions, a VFR assist from ATC for a climb through may be the best way out also.
Wow... the first intelligent comment I've read on this video. In future endeavors, that's something that I'll pay a lot more attention to in crash reports! Thanks! Wait... i knew this crap for years since my navy days. Never applied the simple physics of 3 degrees diff to flying!
If you are VFR and can see the clouds I don't understand why there was a surprise that you flew into IMC.
You should have turned around the second you heard that music.
hahahahahahah
omg that's hilarious!!!!!!!!!!!!
When you heard that ominous music while taxiing out you should have known it was going to be a bad day.
Great video! Flying VFR into IMC is a topic we can't talk about enough!
***** High Praise coming from you FlightChops!!!!
Soundtrack is Prophecies by Philip Glass. From the 1982 indie film Koyaanisqatsi. In case anyone is curious.
Ar Dell one of my favorite movies
I was, thanks.
Lol. Mind reader
Seems a lot of people are ripping this pilot for the mistakes
This video was posted to show people mistakes made.
His mistake was taking off. I don't think anyone is "ripping" them, they are saying even being in the situation was ridiculous, as the sky said "If this is even legal for you at this point, this is a no-no for any thinking VFR pilot."
It very much seemed as if this situation was flown into strictly to provide content.
It’s not just the decision to go, it’s the very fact of flying into an obviously visible cloud layer. It’s hard to understand how it happened unless it was somehow on purpose.
Ignore each and every comment which reads that you could have continued on, and would have popped out of IMC in no time at all. It's that sort of mindset which kills complacent pilots... as they actually fly deeper into the soup. Pilots can NEVER, EVER be too safe or overly cautious. Thank you for possessing the humility to share your experience. Continue to have safety at the forefront, and may blue be the skies above you!
Absolutely my friend. Absolutely! Thanks for responding! :-)
I agree with you, in this flight, absolutely, but it also depends on your location greatly. Example, if your mountain flying and this happens a 30 deg bank may put you in the side of a mountain. If you are familiar with the terrain, continuing straight and getting ATC help, may be the safest option.
Could have already said it wasn't vfr conditions by looking outside before even checking the weather.
I don't want to sound completely ignorant... but looking at the clouds during takeoff should have immediately told you those weather reports were incorrect...
Lol. That's what I was thinking
Checking in four years later just to agree.
While their heart is certainly in the right place, and we can never talk about VFR into IMC enough, I would say this video is an example of what not to do.
They should have never left the ground after taking one look at the sky if flying VFR -- I think the fact that they were instrument trained, just not current, skews this video a great deal.
You could see those low clouds from the ramp. No point to even preflight. I really have no clue what the pilot was thinking.
It isn`t easy judging clouds from the ground. Smarter and better pilots than me have done similar mistakes, so I don`t want to say that it could never happen to me. Glad you made it back safely, and decided to share this with us. It might help me remember how it`s better to be on the ground wishing you were flying, rather than in the air wishing you were on the ground.
Really getting tired of people fishing for clicks with misleading vid titles. That being said, it's fairly obvious shortly after takeoff, that despite the expected VFR conditions, at best the initial leg of the trip would be in marginal VFR and quite likely worse. There's much more to this "decision" than this video suggests. What was the purpose of the trip? Business? Recreational? Where there any pireps available. I flew for the Air Force and a major scheduled airline and my kid is current IFR but with very little actual. Had I taken him to the airport, given what the weather looked like at the time, I would have told him to cancel the trip.Phil Birkelbach nailed. A simple eyeball test should have told the pilot that the ceiling was considerably lower than 2,600' and the METAR had it wrong.
One thing i tell my students... go outside and look up. If the clouds look sketchy, Don’t fly. Simple!
Amen.
Jorge Gonzalez . That’s much like my instructor told me: “Ya gotta know when to leave it in the hangar”! It worked for me.
I do not understand how anyone would "thumbs down" your item. On training X-country I faced VFR into IMC situation with only a couple of flights under the hood experience. The ground rose up to meet cloud-base. It became decidedly misty with a fierce head-wind. Like you I turned back and like you - I am still alive. Well done you.
If you have just entered cloud inadvertently (not easy to do actually if your eyes are open!) from the clear air below then the FIRST thing to do is NOT to try a turn in the cloud but to descend straight ahead to clear air which is not more than a few feet below. Then start the turn in the clear.
I’m not a pilot, so forgive my ignorance here, but it appears to me that from the runway, the ceiling is extremely low. Why take off at all? What am I missing? Thanks.
You cannot visually tell how high a cloud is with reference to something with known ht. Clouds can be 3100 ft and look low. Thats still legal VFr and u could fly fine from point a to b. Problem is changing conditions and or personal mins. Set them and follow them. Doest seem like this person checked. BEfore they left. But ive had weather change completely even with preflight brief. Try living by large lake-michigan or ocean
I'm the first person to say that you never question a pilot that gets the airplane safely on the ground. Good call on the return to the airport.
That being said I think that there is room to learn from this. First, too much faith in the METAR. The Mark V Eyeball could have told you that was not a 2600 ft ceiling.
Next, get established before you look down at the radio. Fly the airplane first then worry about all those silly people on the ground that may or may not want to talk to you anyway. ATC is a great help but they are of no use if your tears are running into your hair.
Also, don't make the turn in IMC. Put the nose down, wings level descend out of the clouds and then make the turn. Once you start that turn it's much easier to get disoriented. (Obviously if you are instrument trained this is not as big of an issue) Keep the wings level until you can see the horizon again. Use the autopilot if you have one.
Again, good job on getting the airplane back on the ground. We all make bad calls and usually we survive them. I've had a similar incident to the one you had. I also survived but I'll not do it again and I'd caution others against the same mistakes. Thank you for posting the video, it may save someones life.
Lol. At the end of your 3rd paragraph you should add... "Plus, forget about the stupid youtube commenters that don't know how to fly and say stupid shit". You would have tons of up votes!!!! Great comment btw. (notapilot and I say stupid shit sometimes). :^)
If that’s great a VFR outlook I don’t want to see a bad one
That NO GO decision was a little too late. That should have taken place BEFORE the aircraft left the ground.
i mean, look up, right?!
The thin gap of sky between cloud base and horizon was a clear give-away that any further climb would put you in the clouds. No need to postpone the 180 decision until just few seconds tuning the radio might get you into IMC. Remember that when something is at your altitude it will appear to touch the horizon - cloud base in this case. If the cloud base appears to be just about to touch the horizon you are about to fly into IMC.
Thanks for posting.
corisco tupi Thanks!! :-)
Weather already looked sketchy before take off
This is why I always navigate by instrument and do all precision non precision approaches all the time. I love staying current to deal with situations like this much easier.
TheTimeTraveler2025 the worst thing. Abrupt changes in motion is the onset to spacial disorientation. As I said too much VFR flying will make me less instrument proficient.
Not being IFR certified in WA and OR seems silly to me.
Being IFR certified in WA and OR is also silly unless you fly something big. Can't fly in IMC during the cold months due to icing, and during warmer months it's all over mountains, forest, or water with little to no options.
I’m a very safe pilot because I stopped flying years ago.... But from my limited under the hood training when I got my private ticket, I would get the aircraft briefly straight and level on the dials and THEN initiate a gentle turn to do a 180 out of of the soup. I heard that stall warning horn right after entry into IMC. That made me nervous just watching the video.
Ok this video is pretty old by now, but I’ll put my two cents in anyway. First, while the go/no go decision was questionable for a VFR flight, the pilot made the right choice to do the 180 degree turn, and executed it well. The stall horn going off gave me a scare, but it seems she lowered the nose enough to avoid a stall when she heard it. If she had looked out of the window, looking for ground for a few seconds too long rather than looking at the instruments, this could have had a different outcome. My advice would be to get that IFR rating and stay current. On a long flight or one in questionable visibility conditions, just file IFR and execute the flight plan. That way, encountering clouds is no big deal. I recently did this - took off in an IFR flight plan where the clouds were 1000 feet AGL at the departure airport. On the climb I distinctly told myself, “here they come (the clouds), heads down…” I was in the clouds for all of a minute or so, then broke out on top with unlimited visibility, and continued my flight (on the IFR plan) to the destination with no problems.
Finally, If you are planning a somewhat long flight, simulate it at home a few times first. Pc flight simulators are quite affordable these days. Even though you couldn’t log it as training, the simulator can show you things to look out for.
I'm so happy to see when a pilot makes the right decision and turns back. I was just watching accident analysis videos and some pilots encountered the same situation as you, but sadly they, for whatever reason decided to press on. And unfortunately it didn't only take their life, but multiple family members lives as well, including young children. Thank you for sharing your story!
Thanks for the response. I too watch the same videos and I count my blessings. I often wonder WHY some feel the inherent, albeit absurd need to push on. I truly count my blessings..
I know which accident analysis video you’re talking about are you referring to the family that flew out of California to Nevada Where are the pilot was not instrument rated but flew in IMC anyway?
@@gmccord1970 Yes! I'm obviously not a pilot, but I just don't understand why people would take a risk like that. Especially when they have their family with them. I have to remind myself how safe flying actually is. I watched a bunch of horrible videos on The Flight Channel, and it had me freaked out for a bit lol...
The conditions were right in front of you when you took off. Am I missing something?
Yes, you're missing the fact that the guy has been taught to trust the weather reports to a certain degree. As well as the fact that he had prepared his mind for a flight. What seems to have missed your attention is the fact that he was able to shipt gears quite quickly and make Corrections. Too bad you have to insult people who end up doing the right thing.
Taking off and flying towards an obvious approaching weather front is a bit daft if you're not IMC current. I also find flaps quite useful on takeoff/approach/landing.
You know what? Thanks for having the courage to put this up, and the kindness to keep responding to comments on it 7+ years later. Subscribing. This is going to change how I look at low ceilings going forward. My #1 takeaway - WTH were people doing taking off into the pattern when the ceiling was at pattern altitude? I can't wrap my head around that one. The question I have is - the altitude was 1500 MSL, but what was the pattern altitude AGL? Asking because most patterns are 1000', but some used to be 700'. I know I can do 700, but it's been a while since I've practiced it, and now I'm thinking I want to keep that skill up.
To twist around a different saying, "everybody has a plan until they unexpectedly fly into clouds". You survived, and that's awesome. Willing to bet you'll never get close to that again.
At Pierson field elevation is around 500 MSL if I recall correctly, so the standard pattern would be 1500 MSL.
It's always fascinating watching these videos. Thanks for sharing. I had my own VFR into IMC once, and I'm only PPL with no instrument training and 100 hours flight time. Happened in central Utah, was around 3-4K AGL flying south over Richfield (KRIF) with clouds in the distance. And they closed in FAST, with rain. Pretty much went from 3 miles vis to maybe 0.5 miles instantly. I knew I had just passed over KRIF a couple miles behind me, so immediately dropped power and went into a descending 180 turn. Around 1000 AGL the vis was maybe a mile (at best) and flew her straight in. The only reason that experience wasn't terrifying is because I knew I had that airport there so there was no panic on my part. I'm pretty sure it wasn't more than 5 minutes from cruise to landing. Without that airport? I don't even want to think about it.
John PilotMan Very glad you made it in bro!! Great story!!!
So you were already at 3 mile visibility when it happened?
You could see cloud cover before you even took off
The audio was more descriptive of your "dire" situation here! I fully expected to see dark, hooded figures to pop up similarly to haunted houses commercials. Very creative!
Good video, great lesson and display of sane judgement. Something obviously lost on all the no-time sim experts.
Nice job!!! My dad was IFR rated and when I was in clouds at 0 visibility, the hardest thing to do was trust what your instruments tell you, not what you "feel". Excellent advice.
Yea, you flew right into them... saw them coming by a mile. Looks like they were about 100ft thick. Since you were in them, instead of turning I would suggest you just held your attitude for a few seconds to get on top of them. Your turn could've killed most people, however as I said, this was completely avoidable as you appeared to have just flown right towards and then into them.
You're correct. I'll be careful next time. 👍🏾
@@blkpylut it's easier to do than it looks.
I'm not a pilot, but I have a good friend who is, and he is always stressing safety and has had to make the same decision trying to land at Astoria, too. Not panicking and following proper procedures are the two most important things to remember when getting into trouble, he says. Good work!
God Mann Indeed. I made it into Astoria btw: ua-cam.com/video/bPWU30EF8MI/v-deo.html
Upon landing after something like that, I generally quickly get out of the aircraft and start dry humping the earth at that point.... As long as nobody from the FBO sees me.
Bwuahahahah I did that after the camera turned off. Hahahaha
Thanks for putting in the effort to get this up to share with us. Loved the soundtrack and effects. You handled a scary situation calmly and safely, well done. It's important to remember that at some point we are all going to end up in a situation where things feel they are getting away from us, and we are never going to be the first person it has happened to. Learning from others mistakes helps us all. Thanks for dropping your ego enough to allow us to see how we can deal with a situation like this. Cheers
Well, thank you Sir. And ur correct. I've learned from so many other pilots on UA-cam. What to do and certainly, what NOT to do. I appreciate the response. Thanks.
People make bad judgement calls, what's important is that you walked away from it safely. I suspect that half of the people criticizing you here aren't even licensed PPLs, and the rest of them are lying if they've never looked at a sketchy METAR and said, "I think I'll be alright." To err is human.
Those who are criticizing her for landing with the Cessna on takeoff roll: While this wasn't an emergency in the sense that the FAA would consider it one to be declared, this was a personal emergency for a VFR pilot. It is unlikely that the Cessna would have made an RTO, and even if it did, there is grass on the side of the runway for a reason. The plane is not on rails when it hits the ground. She was doing her best to get the thing on the ground so the clouds didn't land before she did.
Derangedteddy I don't know if anyone's told you so let me go ahead and let everyone know that you're my new best friend!! LOL..
The fact that this is a pilot account, not an NTSB analysis, is a strong indicator for something having gone well. Oh, you didn't get at your destination, at the cost of being alive. Good choice.
And just that quick, you're my new best friend!! Lol
What part of VFR did you not understand? Nobody just accidentally flys into imc in the daytime. Apparently you're not current on VFR either.
Hey man, get your arrogant head out of your arrogant ass. Read what he said at the start of the video. I am afraid that you may miss it AGAIN, so here it is: "After a WX brief that gave a great VFR outlook..." I do not know if you know this or not, but arrogance and aviation do not mix too well.
hey dick weed Joe W ray charles could see that was not a VFR day if it would have been VFR on top he would have had to file IFR to get there but why should I explain that to a worthless non pilot piece of shit for anyway.. A fucking outlook is not what the weather actually is you stupid fuck its an out look not an observation you non pilot shit talking nobody.
You kept your cool, remembered your training, and got yourself out of a bad situation. You didn't try to be some cowboy hero and push it beyond your capabilities. Well played, and a great lesson for people who tend to overestimate their capabilities! Thank God you lived to fly another day. 🤗
I appreciate it. The alternative isn't what I like thinking about but it's good to see others take something from this.
the music alone is enough to cause a crash
brian carno hahahahaha
The view from taxi was obvious it was going to suck. Why did you attempt it?
How did you fit an entire choir in that little plane?
Hahahaha
That is freaking hilarious!
The temp/dewpoint spread for three of the highlighted stations was 1 deg C... lower ceilings are highly probable between those airports...
+jimmbbo Absolutely!! :-)
In my studies I'm finding this to be a significant killer of general aviators. Great video. Sometimes accident reports don't always give the presence of how quickly conditions can deteriorate.
It isn't just significant, it is the #1 cause of accidents and fatalities.
I really take for granted flying into IMC since I do it so often but that was a very mature decision to make! Thank you for sharing!
jman036 Thank you. Such a positive response on UA-cam; I don't know how to react. LOL
Looks a perfect IFR training day to GET current. You should have filed.
Can't fly IMC if your not current
He went up to take a look. That's it.
In the PNW a bunch of METARS showing 2000-3000 foot ceilings is definitely not a “VFR weather” day. Terrain is constantly fluctuating anywhere between 200ft to as high as 3000ft. Glad things turned out ok!
First off, you dont take off in that weather if you are not IR rated unless you can be 100% positive that you will maintain visual with the ground. And the most important thing, never bank at a 30 degree angle in IMC. Bank at rate one turn (3 degrees per second), start your timer for 60 seconds and roll wings level back at the same course that you entered the clouds at. There is always a chance that the heading indicator will stop working.
Yeah. It seems his stall warning alarm also thought that the 30 degree bank was a little too much at that speed.
Awesome job and great decision-making! You kept your cool and used your head to get yourself out of a poor situation at the right time, which I'm sure lots of VFR pilots who are no longer with us wished they'd done, too. Thanks for sharing your video!
I seen IMC coming before the wheels left the ground, those clouds where low
I`m just a student pilot. I wouldn`t dare fly in those conditions. That said, It didn`t look that bad to me at the beginning. I expected those clouds to be much higher.
You did precisely the right thing by doing a 180 with standard-rate turn & returning to your origin airport. IFR training really helps in instances such as this. You can visit your friend again at some future time.
That wasn’t standard. IR turn limit is 25° or rate one whichever requires less. He turned at 30 degrees which is way beyond the limit because you cannot time the turn in case you lose instruments.
What’s up with the Gregorian chants?
Koyaanisqatsi
I thought I saw that the ceilings were 2600 feet on the weather printout. I might suggest that this was the issue.
Initiate that 180° turn using the artificial horizon to provide you with situational awareness, keep aware of airspeed (stall, maneuvering, vne) and altitude at all times.
Do not:
- panic
- abruptly provide full aileron/rudder input
- keep relying on your senses
Doing so will likely cause you to spin out, dive, resulting in even more panic that causes abrupt over-corrective inputs which may overload the airframe leading to an in flight breakup, and finally the crash.
Absolutely correct assessment.
Excellent message and video. Good for you. As a former VFR pilot with limited hours, I remember several "pucker"-inducing moments down here in Southern California. Excellent song you used also, btw. Loved that movie years ago.
Jeff Deutsch Well, it's a moment I won't forget that's for sure!!!
So, first good job for turning around, but shouldn't you have done a standard rate turn, vs immediately going to 30 degrees? Asking not judging.
a recently certified private pilot with about 60 some hours thanks you and others like you for sharing these videos.
You are VERY welcome my friend. Enjoy that pilots license!!!!!!! :-)
were those low clouds you could see from the ground not a red flag?
The METAR told you good chance of visible moisture. you didn't have the red box around the temp/dew point . You could have also requested a local IFR clearance since you were talking to ATC.
He stated he is not current, so IFR was not an option.
He said he was not current, But I assume he was IFR rated. Flying VFR into IMC would be considered an emergency.So 91.3 would come into play. Not saying he was wrong just adding another option. I would rather write a report to the FAA than have pilot error written on my grave stone.
Those clouds didn't just appear. He's trolling. He could have punched through the holes but violated the cloud clearance just to make a video. There was no emergency here except the for the other pilots sharing the airspace. Knock Knock, who's there? FAA
Well that didn't take long to fly into soup. Smart to turn and return. I don't understand why so many pilots opt to continue in IMC despite having only VFR qualifications and competencies
Max McD I assume it’s in the thought that they might break out of it
Ego
Fukkkkk kobes pilot stubborn schmuck
This makes me feel blessed. I was once in a Cherokee rental piloted by my friend Kevin, a student pilot with about 90 hours time. Flying from SD to San Luis Obispo VFR the clouds rolled in at 3000' and the ascended to 10000' - thus flying thru 7000' of clouds, blind. I guess it's a miracle of some proportion he maintained control ! Once on top all we saw was cloud layer everywhere. Flight Service eventually "talked him down" and we landed at Bubank Intl with fuel mostly exhausted, but safely down thru the IMC. Praise the Lord & Kevin kept his cool but was waaaay over his head VFR into IMC. I suspect that was his last experience as a pilot !
Oh my. Glad you are here to tell the story.
Did your friend take you as a passenger? As a student pilot?
Years ago, I experienced an identical go/nogo situation flying a Cessna 172 with my Sister and her friend out of VNY (Van Nuys, California) on a short jaunt to SBA (Santa Barbara) with a weather briefing that would keep us well below forecast minimums with a base in excess of 2000' or so we expected. With several flights to SBA racked up in only 120 logged hours and maybe 3 hours IMC training, I had no interest in pushing the limits and already had a backup plan in my mind to turn around if things went South. Southwest as we were flying lol. Only about 240 seconds out of VNY my VMC quickly turned to IMC. I had no hesitation whatsoever to immediately bank 30 and pull a 180 back to the pattern while i called out my intentions to the tower. I escaped IMC as quickly as I had entered it and advised my Sister our flight to the coast was not going to happen today. After spending a couple days last week reviewing flight crash investigations here on youtube its a shame to see how many pilots had clear warning of potentially dangerous conditions yet did not make the best decisions that ultimately cost lives. Hats off to blkpylut for posting this video experience of exactly what to do if and when you ever find yourself in this dangerous situation! I have no doubt this video will likely save a life or several.
Why a 30 deg bank? Do a standard rate turn!
Good call, Im glad these conditions are a rare thing here in cali. Im a student pilot out of KVNY
1) You could see the cloud layer from the ground. 2) You are supposed to stay 500ft below the clouds. 3) Most importantly, I would NEVER attempt to try any kind of turn in IMC. Just keep the wings level and reduce power until you are out of the clouds. MUCH SAFER!!
Or nose down 90 degrees until youare clear of clouds
It sounds like the stall horn a couple seconds after you got into the clouds. Hard to tell from the camera angle, but were you pitching up? Going too slow? I've flown into clouds before and the effect of 'brain freeze' that happens is real. If you were managing the deteriorating cloud situation, the traffic around you, AND the stall horn goes off...it's very easy to pull on the yoke and make a bad situation much worse. GOOD ON YOU for keeping your head, flying the airplane, and returning to the airport. The video isn't long but the lesson is memorable for those of us pilots out here constantly learning.
I'm glad you made it back, good flying.
Reason for zero flap Landing? Get there itis or I want to get on the ground ASAP?
I was wondering the same thing.
This is amazing and very enlightening in the aftermath of what just happened to the renown Basketball Legend. I had a very similar experience on my 1st solo and 'halled' it back to the airport.
Bill Moss Jr Who even let you take off on your first solo if there was a chance to enter IMC?
@@zach4195 it came from out of nowhere. That's why they include aeronautical decision making in the training my friend. In my case my CFI has done a great job. I'm not sure I understand you!??😳🤔❓
@@buffalo309 a responsible CFI will typically not let a student fly their first solo if conditions are anything other than perfect. He has a point.
Thanks for posting. I have gotten myself to an almost IFR condition once. Having had that kind of weather, I would have grounded myself. OVC of 2600 feet to me is a no go for VFR FOR ME. Glad it turned out well for you.
Thank you my friend!
I think it’s about the combination of both visibility being limited and cloud deck being low. The pilot couldn’t see the ceiling clearly and flew into it. You need either a good visibility or a high ceiling to fly safely.
From the minute you left the airstrip that looked like flying into IMC. Not real clear to me as to what you were thinking you were flying into? clouds everywhere .....
Thanks for the share! This really drives home why simulated IMC is part of the VFR checkride.
John Marzulli Absolutely John!! Thanks for responding. :-)
when the departure airport is low overcast i'd scrap the idea of going anywhere vfr...
Agreed. :-)
2600 foot overcast is not good VFR, especially if you're trying to fly over pretty high hills to Astoria (unless you were going to go around and follow Columbia river, even then not a lot of available altitude). I think your attitude towards "good" VFR needs a bit of recalibration. You could see those low clouds from the ramp, come on.
I know it’s beyond cliche to say, but it’s so true:
*It is ALWAYS better to be down on the ground, wishing you were up in the air, than to be up in the air, wishing you were back on the ground.*
On my long solo cross country I went OLM-HQM-AST-KLS-OLM... Well, the same "ceiling not available" alert was happening at some coastal weather stations. I ended up over the beach with a wall of clouds of either side of me, "funneling" me in one direction. There were a bunch of small clouds that I kept popping in and out of because I couldn't distinguish them from the surrounding "grayness". It was very scary because I had so few hours and hadn't encountered much if any "actual" weather before.
Glad you got out OK, lighting conditions like that make it nearly impossible to see some clouds and you don't know until you're in them!
Make sure you file an ASRS report :)
I'll definitely look into filing that report!! Thanks Steve!
Excellent video (and musical score). You were/are smart and decisive; knew your limitations and took action immediately. Did not panic nor lose self control. Good thing no mountainous terrain applied. Where I live, that is what many VFR pilots fly into under those marginal to deteriorating conditions.
Not used to this type of accolade on UA-cam. HAHAHAHA Thank you so much
He's right! I'm surprised it's taken me this long to find as I've seen every crash death video on youtube! Lol.
SpaXpert HAHAHAHA
Thanks man. Love your vids and happy to see you're still alive! Cheers dude!
Excellent job! and I would suggest a standard rate turn for the 180 turn as well as for you to get an instrument rating. Also check out the FAA Wings program. Again, great decision to turn back to known VFR!
Just the observable WX conditions alone before T/O would tell you to stay home. Given the area which is characteristically moisture prone adds even more to the scenario.
Thanks for sharing. Glad to see you made it safely to the ground. I only have about 100 hours flying up here in the PNW but I would not call that good VFR conditions. The weather report is one piece of information. Walking outside looking at the skies towards the horizon told a completely different story. A great example of how quickly we can get into trouble.
I would get my training in zero visibility quick that is too scary to encounter
It looked scary because the predicted weather was better than the actual weather, (although the predicted and actual weather were not exactly what I'd call great VFR). I'm a student pilot with only a few hours, all in super VFR...however, your video reminded me of a lesson years ago where the instructor was yakking his head off as i flew into a descending ceiling plus snow precipitation, and I kept saying "it looks like the ceiling is slanting downwards and we're flying into it" while he just continued to yak about his family and light another cigarette...until I said very loudly, "uh we are totally into the clouds and I can't see anything" to which he hurriedly said, "My plane. I've got the controls" and did a 180. I never flew with him again
Wowww. I've never heard of an instructor being careless and lacking Situational Awareness like that. Good going to dump him. Most instructors teach the theory of Marginal VFR flight. Take a look at my MVFR video. I hope it helps u recognise the danger of deteriorating weather. :-)
I am an IFR rated pilot and agree with everything seen below about trusting your isntruments and always being aware of your airspeed and attitude. I think another important thing that alot of people over look now adays is the temp/dewpoint. especially when weather doesnt look super promising. being aware of the temp dew point allows you to calculate the cloud bases, that being said thats assuming there are reporting station in the area that are functioning and up to date. some times these things happen and i think this pilot did a really great job giving the situation. (not for instructional use just my 2 cents)
Appreciate the message. These situations can happen so quickly.
I fly on Long Island and almost every pilot that flys there KNOWS the super fast fog that rolls in off the ocean during the summer months. The fog layer is not very thick but enough for a/p to go IFR.
I was heading back from a 45 min. Trip and saw the fog rolling in. I contacted tower about 20 miles out and as I got closer I knew the a/p was going to go IFR so i set myself up for an ILS approach (I was not instrument rated at the time, but always practiced ILS approaches just in case) when I was 10 miles out, the tower informed me they were goIng IFR very soon. I told them I was going to use the ILS approach and I was already on the glideslope. They cleared me to land then they went IFR. I wanted to land before I lost minimums as the fog hugs the ground. I did not panic nor made any eratic maneuvers. I just flew the ILS until I saw the runway and landed. The fog had already touched the end of the runway and as I was taxiing back I looked back and could not see the end of the runway anymore as the visability dropped til 1/2 mile. It was like the fog was chasing me. When i parked the plane it was mike a scene out of a horror movie. Shy was a very dark gray with very limited disability.
Since there are no a/p on the north side of the island, and JFK or LGA was not even entertainable, I would have to fly to Conneticut if I was unable to land at my intended a/p.
Needless to say, I got my rating a few months later. This fog overtakes the south shore of Long Island in a matter of minutes. You see boaters race to the shore but get caught up in it often. Always KNOW where you are, and any airports around you. Dont be stupid, don't continue flight put the plane down safely or do a 180 and get the he'll out of there. Amd remember ATC is there to HELP. Dont be too proud to ask for help, your job is to keep the plane under your control. JFK jr did NOT do that. Instead he continued flight, and did not have the plane under his control, see how that worked out for him?
Thanks for your honesty and posting an important lesson with a good ending for all pilots.
A good lesson learned and thanks for sharing. Most who find themselves in this predicament are probably low time private pilots without the benefit of instrument training. In that regard, standard rate turns of three degrees per second (15.38 degree bank in a C-172 vice a 30 degree bank) taught during instrument training is probably a better recommendation. Not trusting your instruments in IMC is a serious issue and aircraft is more stable (gets out of hand slower) in pitch than bank so a calm, SRT IMHO is a safer move to execute. Just my $.02 food for thought.
Agree completely Chuck. Standard rate 180 should be the way to get out of inadvertent IMC. One minute turn 180 degrees, nice and steady. Less of a chance of a pilot induced unusual attitude trying to bank 30 degrees quickly
Robert Anderson doing my IFR long cross country next week in prep for my check ride. IFR training provided an insightful perspective to my VFR private pilot training. Knowing where I came from as a private pilot to where I am now, IFR training provided those essential tools to recover from inadvertent flight into IMC and made me more comfortable about white out flying in the clouds.
Chuck Kendzierski good work! I think the million dollar question we should ask ourselves when we consider inadvertent IMC is this, why not get an instrument rating? An instrument rating makes you a better pilot, adds more tools to your toolbox, and would have been of serious help attempting to go cross county with an 1800 foot ceiling. Good luck with your training!
Robert Anderson I got my private pilots license in 91. I haven’t looked at the ACS since then but would assume enough time isn’t allotted to this form of training. I’m not sure if training under the hood is enough vice having the experience of flying in the clouds. Being in white out conditions for several minutes is a blast when you trust your instruments. Takes a bit to get over what your senses tell you. Just back from my long IFR cross country earlier today. Now onto prep for the check ride.
Thanks for posting, it looked scary for a few minutes but you did the right thing and did a 180. I may have been tempted to drop down out of it rather than do a 180 (which I accept is what we teach) but of course this would depend on knowledge of the terrain you were flying in.
Nevertheless you held it together and got yourself out of it. It looked like your flying deteriorated even once you got free of the clouds so I suspect you were somewhat rattled. It can happen to all of us and indeed happened to me not so long ago when I misjudged a climb on top and ended up in full IMC - I did a 180 descending turn as I knew we were over a flat plain and the bases were well high enough for me to do it. I was very relieved though once I got myself out of the soup!!
All of these videos are good reminders of what can happen even with momentary lapses of concentration / judgement. I have an Intrument Rating but nevertheless I still found it an uncomfortable experience and it is surprising how long it can take your brain to catch up!!
....BEST post. Most are BEATING this poor guy up. Sure, there are lessons here to be learned: in a nutshell, DON’T FLY ABOVE YOUR RATING! If flying VFR...STAY VFR, Clear of clouds. THIS particular day was a NO-GO...
Starting a turn immediately after encountering IMC is not the most ideal solution. You were perfectly VMC just prior to that, so wings level, throttle back and descent will bring you VMC below. Then return to the field or stay VMC below. Just my opinion.
They might of had some sort f instrument training and felt comfortable executing the turn.
In modern flight school VFR students are trained to execute a standard rate turn for one minute as soon as the encounter IMC as it has been determined to be the fastest and safest corse of action in most situations.
Looks pretty low already
They were at 1800’ MSL. The last thing you want to do is descend and start skud running because you have no idea in an instant if there are towers, terrain or other obstacles below you. You also don’t know how low those clouds go once you are into them. There is just not enough time in that situation to check your flight software or maps. Trust your instruments! They were flying at a safe elevation at the moment so the second wisest thing to do is standard rate turn and go back where you were VMC. The wisest thing to do is check the forecast along your route of flight and make a proper go-no go decision. Good teaching video for seeing how fast things can change and how remembering your training will save your life.
you are a very smart man. it's 5 years later. are you still making good decisions.
Maximuspadus Well, I'm STILL here, so YES!!!! Hahahaha
As soon as I saw the weather you received, I was thinking, "nope, I wouldn't be flying VFR in that." Looking up in the sky before you left the ground should have reinforced that decision to stay on the ground. But you went up anyway, maybe just to "take a look." Then you encountered even lower CIGs than were reported/forecast. You waited until you entered clouds before starting back. As soon as you were within 500 feet of that ceiling, you should have been turning back.
But then you broke the accident chain (finally!) by executing an immediate 180 and returning to the airport. First good decision of the day. You did pull a bit hard, you could hear the stall horn sounding in your turn, which was a bit scary.
All in all a good outcome at the end, and hopefully you learned something. I'd encourage you to get your instrument ticket, if you haven't already since you posted this video six years ago. It opens a world of flying options (and skills) to you.
Appreciate the feedback. I hope others who may find themselves in this similar situation have the same or better outcome.
I would be more focused on the cloud layer above my head then tuning in a frequency...
Mike Rohren Never thought of that way. Thanks!! :-)
Glad you made it back out of IMC alive and landed/lived to tell about it.
Every pilot should have IFR training as soon as possible! In Canada, you cannot get a private license without spin training, stall training, and I think it was 5 hours basic IFR training.
Agreed! :-)
+Truth BeTold evan in Zamunda, the ruler of zamunda has decided so
This happens in the US too with the private license. Though spins aren't apart of training until the commercial.
The weather can change at the drop of a hat. I found myself in the same situation years ago, maybe a bit worse. In a second, weather changed from VFR to nothing but clouds out my front windshield. I was able to follow a river back to the airport (LUK) by looking down and out of my side window. I later found that I was not the only one caught in the "soup" that day.
Glad it turned out ok.
is that KLUK? I live over by KHAO
LUK stands for Lunken Airport in Ohio. The Ohio river runs past the airport, lucky for me.@@preflightgn
I am really glad you recovered back into VFR quickly, by the way thanks for renting the arrow, from Spanaflight!
Tim, so glad to have met you today!! Will be posting the video of my flight very soon. Today was soooo beautiful!! Good luck getting checked out in the Arrow!!
blkpylut Thanks I can't wait, too take the arrow on a few trips this summer.
Don’t turn so sharply in IMC. standard rate turns only. Also, had you caught it you probably could have safely descended and turned VMC but in any case…. Was that the stall horn going off in the turn???
sounded like it to me
Any reason you elected a 0 flap setting for landing?
len vanover No reason. I perform NO flap landings on occasion.
Bad habit. Not to lecture (because I'm nowhere near a perfect pilot), but the speed difference on a no flap landing may not seem like much, but the impact velocity is a ton compared to a full flaps landing. That extra 10 knots matters.
I know no flaps landings feel great and like greasers, but it's a false sense.
ua-cam.com/video/IVqiXCIVmOU/v-deo.html
If you accidentally fly into IMC - DO NOT initiate a turn based on a bank angle. A standard rate turn would be best. Who taught you to make a 30 degree bank turn in IMC? Also... you say IFR trained not current. ??? You mean IFR rated not current?
he said < 30 bank angle. IOW... don't panic and spin it into the ground. (< = less than). Many people will panic.
The temp and dew point are within 5 degrees (100 percent saturation).
Vince Thomas You're right!!!. Thanks!! :-)
Stay out the clouds and you’ll live to see another day
I notice the CLG reports at 026. This is why I like to see CLG040+ on METARs or TAFs and 7+ VIS. There are times I will go with 6Vis but not lower.
+James Muhammad Those are GREAT personal minimums to adhere to!!
It looks like you're flying out of Takoma, Wash? My VFR personal mins may not be suitable for you (not sure). blkpylut I once flew a reported 5mi VIS during training and it was terrible. I've also flown VFR as PIC with fwd vis was very poor (no horizon anywhere) but I could see 20+ on a slant to the ground. I continued that flight but it was unfair to my pax who was on a 1st flight and I gave him the controls for a few minutes. He had a tough time keeping the wings level.
I've also had the experience of VFR-IMC. I don't consider a 180* as the "best" solution to the problem in all situations. In my case it required a loss of altitude to remain VFR. I had clouds that were forecast at 11,000 on night flight from Charlotte to DC and I kept running into them at ~5500 during my expected climb to 7,500. Keep your options open; know where your outs are; be aware of terrain and man-made obstacles. In some conditions, a VFR assist from ATC for a climb through may be the best way out also.
James Muhammad ua-cam.com/video/TJZPY8-clwg/v-deo.html
What kind weather did you expect when temperature dew point spread was 1 degree
n3049m Agreed!
Wow... the first intelligent comment I've read on this video. In future endeavors, that's something that I'll pay a lot more attention to in crash reports! Thanks! Wait... i knew this crap for years since my navy days. Never applied the simple physics of 3 degrees diff to flying!