This Changes Everything | Strange New Worlds S2E03 Lore Drop
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- Опубліковано 16 січ 2025
- Strange New Worlds "Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow" revealed some changes to the timeline in Star Trek shifting some major events in the history of the UFP such as the date of the Eugenics Wars. This ties in some details from Picard and shows that Khan Noonien Singh has had his introduction delayed from 1992 to 2022.
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So the time ship from Voyager crashed, introduced future tech, superpowered computer research and choked investment in genetics, the Romulan went back to 1992, but it was after Voyager changed the past so she ended up in a non-Khan 90s and worked to reduce the influence of the future tech until Picard knocks Soong into reactivating the Khan program.
Kinda fixes a LOT of time travel consistency issues.
Thats a great explanation actually. And also seems to be consistent with what we see in voyager. The Eugenics wars were supposed to be this big war were millions had died and yet when Voyager visited Earth in 1997 just one year after the end of the war we don’t see any evidence of it at all.
@@maximiliankief8142I believe it was 1996 even. But yup, the Eugenics Wars were nowhere to be seen in Voyager's 1996/1997 San Francisco.
We can probably use it to explain the differences between TOS history and that seen First Contact with regard to Cochrane, and developing warp off earth.
And you can stretch to say the extra advances from the future tech explain the tech in ENT, DISCO and SNW and what we saw in TOS.
It's an extraordinary piece of explanium / handwavium.
@@TheratronThey went to L.A. not San Francisco.
Starling was proud of laptops but clearly if it weren’t for him we’d not have smartphones, but still have those giant desk terminals with “net channels” and a hardwired phone next to the keyboard!
Keep in mind, in Voyager, it was discovered most of Earth's technological advancement in the late 20th century was the direct result of time travel and that was never corrected. The timeline is most likely damaged beyond repair, if there even was a "starting state" considering how time travel works. It's been pointed out the players in the temporal war, including the Federation, are mostly trying to defend their own history, but it's likely even they know permanent changes have occurred.
Yes. But Quark crashed in Roswell and T'Pol on Carbon Creek anyway. It is why tech in 90's was already more advanced then it should. Romulans attempting to delay development ironically prevent those alterations.
@@TheRezro maybe that's why the Romulus agent was left unchecked for almost 30 years, they were using her to correct the damage to the timeline but then lost control of the situation.
The Vulcan Science Directorate has determined that time travel is impossible.
@@TheRezro "was already more advanced then it should".It is you nonsence and "chicken and egg"! THIS is exactly what should happen when things from the future "shape" the past.
@@TheRezro T'Pol didn't crash in Carbon Creek, that was her ancestor... also the crewmate of her ancestor is still on Earth during all these episodes, it'd be nice if he was brought up again at some point.
All I can say about this delayed introduction and its impacts on the timeline is: "KHAAAAAAANNNNNNN !!"
Lmfao
My same exact response after the episode ended lol
I was waiting all episode for Kirk to shout "LA'AAAAAAAN"
@@CertifiablyIngame lol
@@CertifiablyIngame Those changes actually align with stuff established in Star Trek Enterprise.
When the story for Space Seed was written in the summer of 1966, who could have possibly envisioned there would still be television productions referencing it 57 years later?
My only real concern with this approach is what if star trek is still showing in the 2060s? Will they just keep retconning time to a smaller and smaller timeframe to make sure it stays "in the future"? Its a problem that will never have a solution, so they are going to have to decide when they want the star trek timeline to divert from reality.
Really good point.
I sincerely hope that by that time culture has progressed beyond the infinite IP recycling and there would be a popular Sci Fi show that was NOT first conceived in the 1960s or 1970s.
Interesting point. Remember that when Space Seed came out, the 90s were in the future.
I was thinking about Bart and Lisa's birthdates in The Simpsons. Either the dates keep changing or 42 year old kids still look like kids.
My hope is that a Star Trek future can exist, not even in our timeline but in some timeline. Correcting it this way lets me know that somewhere it's possible for Star Trek to exist in a reality. That's all I wanted and its what I got. I'm happy.
The thing I find most fascinating is this both confirms that Enterprise and SNW are slightly different timelines, but also simultaneously asserts that it doesn’t matter. “It’s like time is resisting, pushing back, stuff happens anyway”.
And this reaffirms that the long-established small changes (such as Sisko becoming Gabriel Bell, Spock’s Sehlat dying early, Voyager in the 90s) don’t matter so long as the general shape of the path is the same. It’s like the flow of a river, it may meander significantly in one location but the overall course to the ocean stays fairly consistent.
The temporal investigations department even has a measurement of the magnitude of the timeline change: “0.02 variance” for Seven of Nine’s shenanigans in the episode which introduced TCARS (I was happy to see its return). So presumably any changes under a certain amount are considered fairly safe.
I note the agent’s “this was never meant to happen” speech mirrors Daniels’ to Archer after their shuttle blew up a mining colony. These examples are thus probably the biggest “temporal variances” the timeline can sustain without significantly fracturing.
Actually no, TOS is different timeline as it always was. Voyager and Enterprise actually already moved the event.
@@TheRezro …I mentioned Enterprise (and Voyager visiting the 90s) though, so I’m confused here. Would you care to elaborate?
Perhaps you interpreted my comment as suggesting SNW diverged from Enterprise, but I was combining them. Archer’s grandfather (not great grandfather) fought in the Eugenics Wars.
@@kaitlyn__L Voyager event was erased from time. Though it confirm that war did not happen there. Previous exploitation from books was some secret war nonsense no one liked. Leader of Terra Prime from Enterprise does reference some dictator from early 21'th century. What sound like Eugenic War taking place there, instead 90's. Ironically Romulans prevent something what already was result of time manipulation. Like Quark crash landing in Roswell.
Annorax also remarked that Time resisted changes in Year of Hell. Spock also said so in The City on the Edge of Forever.
@@JimmyCerra Annorax said that, but when he said it it was a personal vendetta time had against him and specifically about keeping his wife away. He was capable of changing practically everything else except that one thing, and that’s what he said it was resisting.
Spock meanwhile says no such thing about time resisting change, but he does compare it to a meandering river with eddies and backwash. But that was meant to explain why they arrived a week before McCoy, and it launched the classic “we might be a day early or a year early, there’s no way to predict when the others will arrive” plot beat.
I would still say this episode is the most compelling argument yet that many things about the setting definitely are meant to happen regardless of the exact details of how they come about. That’s always been implicitly present, ie the way everybody always has a mirror universe counterpart, but now it’s been made explicit.
I'm guessing how temporal mechanics in the Star Trek universe works is kinda like a spring. You can compress and bend it (the timeline) but it'll eventually form back to its original shape either naturally or artificially. But if the spring breaks you can weld the pieces back together, it won't look entirely the same but depending on the weld it may look nice or messy. You could also shave the metal off along the spring to get splintering timelines like the Kelvin universe.
It was rather due to activity of Temporal Police. Khan in 90's was already result of temporal manipulation.
We saw the Krenim fiddle with the timeline in Voyager to get a desired outcome. I'd imagine the Department for Temporal Investigations and the others are doing something similar, but aim to keep the timeline like 99% the same. Moving the Eugenics Wars to mid 21st Century is a shift, but must have the same outcome as a 99% threshold.
The real story is in the 1960s 30 years ahead seemed so far away, and 30 years before it Eugenics was a big thing Nazis and the like were into. So put the two together and you get "the future". Best not to think about it too much!
That Kremin explanation makes quite a lot of sense.
We are in the 99% of time.
And every time travel incident makes changes, but end of episode reverts back 99% of everything.
After 20 time-travel incidents we'd be at 81.78% of the original timeline.
The book trilogy that works through The Eugenics Wars says that the war was covert, with the augments working behind the scenes. The covert war was an intentional decision so they could still fit it withing our existing history. It also had Gary Seven in it.
What was already a retcon from Voyager. Current explanation make more sense.
@TheRezro how so? It actually makes it more confusing tbh
@shoesncheese I love them books. Anytime Gary Seven is involved I'm all in. He's always been on of my favorites from Star Trek even though he was in only one episode Assignment Earth. It's one of my top 3 favorite episodes of all Star Trek.
A very good read
I just referenced that trilogy in my comment above.
Our timeline simply isn't the prime star trek timeline, that's why events don't match our world. It's a similar world, a fictionalised version that mirrors some events of ours.
It would be pretty weird if "Star Trek" had been a thing in the Star Trek universe.
Surprise! Neither show end in same timeline as it started! And Red Shirts have actually highest survival chances.
Star Wars was smart to explicitly seperate the universe from our universe as it's very first course of action. Some people just need to be told in writing that this stuff is fiction. 😂
@@maskddingo1779 Star Wars takes place a long long time ago. It also didn't have time travel until the World Between Worlds. Plot holes are introduced as soon as time travel is involved.
@@WorldPeace21 That's pretty much my point. They were smart to say it wasn't "in our galaxy", and also explicitly in our past. There is thus no misunderstanding that star wars is somehow representing some possible future for humans and planet earth... and no need to try to adjust dates in your fictional world as we move past those dates in the real world because the fiction you came up with didn't happen in real life (surprise!)
Another cute nod to lore; in spite of the fact that Sara is smaller then La'an, she is shown to be _significantly stronger._
I love when the show remembers that Vulcans are stronger than humans and therefore, it follows that Romulans probably would be as well.
And when Romulans get shot, the blood squibs should be green not red.
can't recall a Vulcan or Romulan bleeding red before....
i loved the sweet irony that La'an had to save the life of the man she hates more than anything in the universe to insure the Federation and Star Fleet would be formed
Kill Hitler, or.... Genocide, just to exist.
Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan also references the year 1996, so it's also been "Ret-Khanned"
To me this episode kind of implies that time is similar to in Doctor Who. While there still needs to be those that prevent certain changes as some things are in flux, there are also Fixed Points in Time where time itself tries to correct things. The difference is that unlike Doctor Who, the universe is not destroyed if Fixed Points are not met.
It also reminded me of: "wibbly wobbly timey wimey".
Edit: Come to think of it, another similarity is that Star Trek has the Temporal Cold War and Doctor Who has the Last Great Time War. In both things ended up corrected as much as possible, but not everything was able to be corrected as there was simply too much changing for that to be possible.
Annorex in Voyager and Spock in TOS both remarked on the tendency of Time to resist changes. Spock said it was like a river with events flowing towards their conclusion even if the path is changed slightly. Annorex was driven mad trying to tame Time.
Wibbly wobbly! Timey wimey!
And then there was the Doctor Who - Star Trek crossover comic…
The way I took that line is that time is squishier and more adaptive than previously portrayed. Like the romulan agent was working to get the big change to pivot the timeline, but when she failed it all kinda mushed back to the correct thing.
Sisyphus made real...
Wibbly-wobbly, you mean? :-)
To borrow a phrase, it's a bunch of wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey...stuff. For instance, I don't think there was an NX-01 Enterprise until the events of First Contact and Cochrane seeing the Enterprise-E. He suggests to Henry Archer that their first Warp 5 ship should be named Enterprise. Not to mention the Borg Cube wreckage they found in the Arctic.
It’s Einstein’s Theory of Relative Continuity. The eugenics wars do not happen at a specific date. They always happen a few decades after the story is written.
The War was never really well established in the shows. I always went with the theory, that the records before the war were not reliable anymore because of the war and missing transparency during it.
After all those time travel episodes in Star Trek, I think the timeline is patchwork at best right now. At the time an event was mentioned, it happened at that mentioned time, but a season or show later it could have changed, without anyone realizing. But the ripple effects were weakened as best as possible, so the big events, the fix points, still occur. Maybe not in the same years or months, but they did.
The answer is in the episode. The Romulan said, that time corrects itself. Every time she tries something, something fights back. Those are the time agents, and she doesn't even realize it, because she already went native in that timeline. She is into deep a part of the causality, of the prime timeline.
It would be a great episode, that the Crew fights such correction and is so good at it, that the time agents have to come clean and tell them, that they have to let something happen, to fix a mistake, or else something way worse would happen. Maybe they have to let an attack happen or a death, or someone else is going to be captain of the Enterprise during Wolf 359 and the Borg win. One episode and all the time and canon problems go away.
But also, they're maybe doing a soft reboot of Star Trek. Still prime timeline, but small changes.
I always took it as simply history being unreliable too, I mean how many records survived even a short nuclear war as WWIII must have been, in the real world there’s something like 30,000 books on the origins of the First World War in English alone
They better not. I'll tear their a** a new one if Kurtzman attempts that bs.
the eugenics wars are a canon event bro --spider man 2099
@@ImDelphox yo vey, are you going to go back and tell the Voyager writers or shall I?
@@MLPDethDealr32 I said a few things. What do you mean?
Tbh I would have always been fine with Star Trek just being alternate history, the Eugenics Wars happen in the 90s and that's it. It doesn't need to mirror real world events beat for beat, important things can still happen in the time line around our real world history regardless of the alternate stuff if they want to reference it.
One thought that did occur to me regarding this is that it would definitely explain how Khan seems so much more well known that he was originally. If the original timeline had Khan leaving Earth far earlier, perhaps even prior to the worst events of WWIII, records of him might have been far scarcer and more attention given to subsequent events. With his creation having been delayed, it's likely he was far more involved in later conflicts of the war, resulting in far greater notoriety.
Personally I love when they add in-universe explanations to stuff. And I’d consider this a splinter timeline, but like you said, it’s unimportant but fun to discuss and map
i suspect that you are right on all accounts, but i wonder if the force that the romulan agent was referring to isn't something more.... known? as there is a documented faction that would seem to be the one working to correct things in the form of Wesley Crusher post Traveler situation. maybe somebody delayed khan, and wesley or one of his operatives, knowing that it was a sad necessity to avoid a more terrible fate, put in action the series of events that forced the whole thing anyways... just a random thought i had.
Love the videos and have a great one everyone who reads this!
Concerning the Eugenics Wars starting in '92, i think the reason its been kept this relevant in universe is that, maybe, this war starting this early was probably a "temporal sweet spot" of sorts for it to occur. The Nazis could've started the Eugenics stuff to make a supersoldier program, but got scrapped when the Allies won and starting poaching the scientists they didnt kill, then gets rebooted in 1959 to create Khan and his fellows, away from Westerm eyes. After all, Eugenics Wars occur in a time where, if irl history is more or less concurrent, the Gulf War or Iraq War happens and America invades the Middle East leading a coalition force around this time, meaning that US/NATO forces are already engaged somewhere else and a few other crises are going on, and that assumes that the USSR is still dissolved in 1991. Khan's war could've been another brushfire conflict that turned into an inferno while nobody was looking especially hard and they paid the price for it. Not to mention that when Space Seed was written and the OG timeline given, 1992 could've been a plausible time frame for a grown supersoldier in his prime to start a planet wide war. We went from Wright Bros. prototype to Space Shuttle in around 60 years, who's to say we couldn't go from discovering genomes' existence to mass produced clone army in 20, especially when the research required starts in a state where some of its population are considered disposable or unwanted already and are prime experiment fodder?
Wow! I like this explanation. It makes sense. If you are going to write a story about the Eugenics War, and the time frame is bouncing around all over the place, this sounds plausible. There is a lot of genuine science that has taken place in the '90s and early 2000s that parallel what could take place in a genetics war of sorts. As divisive as the world has become recently I am surprised the argument of genetic manipulation has not become a lot more controversial. JustSaying.
This idea was already retconed in 90's
It's relevant because TWOK is widely regarded as the best movie in the franchise. Aspiring writers love to mine that teritory.
@@TheRezro you wouldn't happen to be talking about VOY? Otherwise, pls let me know, I am out of loop on a lot of history
@@maskddingo1779 and it remains the best 👌
I think the force that's trying to fix time is Sam Beckett.
🎵It's a long road, getting from then to here🎵
Oh, boy.
@@WalterOtterly I came here to reply as such...
That very enterprising.
That line confirms it for me that SNW takes place in a different timeline.
none of the "prime timeline" takes place in the same timeline every time travel episode makes another timeline we are now following
Two thoughts on this issue. The first is that they can now justify changes to the timeline as butterfly-effect consequences of that delay in Khan's birth. For example: this episode teased a major attraction between Kirk and La'an. In the original TOS timeline, obviously Kirk and La'an never became a couple, but _if_ they wanted to make them one here, they could -- I am not saying they will or should, but if they want to, now they can, among other changes.
The second thing is something that has always frustrated me. Sci Fi movies or shows _always_ seem to make huge technological advancements come waaaaaaaaay too early. 2001: A Space Odyssey, Blade Runner, The Terminator, Star Trek (TOS), Space: 1999, et al. I suppose 2001 is the least egregious offender here, since _most_ of the technology seen in that film was probably achievable by 2001, if we had had the will to keep funding space exploration at the level we did in the 1960s, but we didn't. So instead of having permanent bases on the moon by 2001, we're nearly a quarter century beyond that date now, and we still haven't gone back _at all._ But think about Blade Runner: 2019 was just 37 years after 1982, and the film mentioned off-world colonies that are implied to be preferable to Earth as a place to live by 2019, which almost certainly indicates interstellar travel, given the unsuitability of any planet in our solar system for human habitation. Blade Runner also featured, not just mapping of the human genome, and genetic engineering, but production of _entirely_ manufactured human beings from _scratch._ And these synthetic humans are physically superior to real humans to boot. 37 years was _ludicrously_ early for us to have reached this level of technology. They should have set the movie in the 2080s at the absolute earliest -- and that's probably still way too optimistic.
Star Trek TOS, imagining the Eugenics Wars in the early 1990s was similarly bad: that was almost 30 years exactly from the date Space Seed was filmed, and the idea that we would have developed the knowledge to overhaul human genes that thoroughly, and that competently, in that short an amount of time, was also much, much too optimistic. Likewise for space travel -- when Khan is defeated, note he and his closest followers also escaped Earth in an interstellar (though sublight) spacecraft, before the end of the 20th century. They should have put the Eugenics Wars well into the 21st century.
I feel like this dilemma actually portraits the problem of human conception of time over it's development over the last, say 150-200 years, and especially the last 60-70. On one hand, a lot of things go insanely fast, especially the development of technology in certain areas, see Internet, smart phones, currently things like AI etc.
Based on those, I can see people in the 60 thinking only 30 years later this scientifically advanced setting could be reality.
But on other fronts, development goes excruciatingly slow, making you question how we as a society haven't fixed those issues yet. It's kinda paradoxical, and it sometimes seems to me that this dichotomy is partly at fault for the current global unrest and conflict within societies as people struggle to handle it. If you are promised a better future soon but it seems like everything BUT your personal fortune is developing faster than you can blink, that's bound to cause discontent...
Khan born as result of genetic engineering. We may assume that Romulans blow up lab, but Khan zigote survived and was born later. And that Kirk was different person. Anyway, any Trek series do not end in same timeline as it started.
@@rierku Science fiction writers generally do not take into account the economics of technological advancement. Technology advances along the lines where the money goes. Gadgets which can be sold advance rapidly, spaceships which assist nerds in exploring new worlds for pure passion and a sense of discovery develop very slowly. AIDS has been around since the 80s, mostly killing gay and black people, but there is still no vaccine. COVID has been around for a few years, primarily killing affluent boomers (i.e. the class who primarily own the pharmaceutical companies), and there are about a dozen different vaccines for it with varying efficacy. AI is mostly being harnessed to replace writers and other creative people, not executives and administrators, i.e. not the class of people who own the companies developing AI. Technology is being pushed where the money is, or rather where those who control capital want it to go.
I mean we’ve (scientists) cloned the first mammal in 1996 , which means such an endeavor was started in the late 80s , not to mention the idea of doing such a thing is decades older . And when this episode was written, they were ( technically speaking) just out of WW2 , it was known N zi Germany were running experiments, but what about the unknown, like gene manipulation .. just your average conspiracy theories back then lol . So my point is it’s not that they miscalculated our advancements , but they possibly assumed it was already achieved.
Let me amend what I meant at the end … *They probably assumed it was already achieved in like a “What If ?”scenario
Just makes me feel like timetravel is getting a little overdone in the universe.
That's an understatement.
They need to just stop the pointless retcons and go with the original TOS timeline as-is.
this was very terminator and interesting. makes me wonder if the temporal investigations division will be a recurring part of this show.... i'm here for it!
The Terminatior franchise messed itself up by always messing with the timeline, after awhile it got too messy and convoluted and the next movie erases everything the last movie or TV show did
This makes me think of Bat-Keaton talking about the multiverse in The Flash where the past is changed as well as the future. They are more subtle changes, but they are still changes to the past.
At 05:55 the ST:TOS episode "space seed" happens so far into the future (over 300 years) that a 30~50 year difference in exactly when Khan creates his empire, is defeated and escapes in the SS Botany Bay, doesn't really matter that much. There's still plenty of time for them to float around the cosmos as human-popsicles and eventually be stumbled upon and accidentally revived by the crew of the USS Enterprise. It also doesn't matter that James T Kirk dies during this temporal mission, because his United Earth Empire version gets over-written when the Romulan agent is foiled, Kahn has his reign of terror and WW3 happens, ensuring that the rest of the foundational events of the United federation of Planets all occur as they should have.
I like the Idea that the Star Trek timeline splits from our reality already in 1966 (the year the first episode aired). And to be honest. The Star Trek-tech only would be possible to achieve in just 200+years if the technology-optimism of the 1960s would have becom reality. Von Braun timed the first Mars-landing at the end of the 1980s. Fusion and intersolar travel would be possible in the 1990s or early 2000s... Therefore I like the idea that Star Trek is fiction since 1966 and that the timeline runs differently since then.
Same here actually. It even makes sense in universe, rather than try to adapt it to our world
I mean, it would have to be. Star Trek is too popular of a franchise to believe that not even a single person 200 years from now had ever heard of it and how accurately it predicted everybody’s life.
Oh don't forget em story Cannon the technological Revolution that occurred started in the late 60s that we have experienced. Certainly would be highly consistent with the perceived technological change even in the Show versus what it is even today. Which means Voyager messed up everything, in other words it's ALL JANEWAY'S FAULT.
This seems to indicate there isn’t only one prime timeline, but prime timelines
Great video. Glad to see someone not being salty, and enjoying lore.
In Space Seed when Spock is referencing Khans records he says something like that era of history records are spotty which could be because of the time incursions messing with it.
The records were spotty due to the WORLDWIDE NUCLEAR WAR. They still knew the war happened in 1996.
Space Seed wasn't the only one that mentioned the 1990s dates, Kahn himself in TWOK claimed to have ruled until 1996
Thanks, I could not remember if that reference was on screen or from a background display or something!
@@CertifiablyIngame I clearly watched TWOK too many times in my youth! 😁
I’d forgotten that.
I don't mind when the writing tries to clarify or piece together stuff that doesn't quite make sense but has real world reasons (why do Klingons in TOS have smooth heads but TNG+ don't? oh, a virus that has potential lore complications that further cements why they'd hate humans in particular, that's neat actually)
But when they do stuff like push WW3 or the Eugenics Wars further off it doesn't feel right to me, cause it feels like they're pushing them off so they are in The Future rather than just accept that after a certain *purposefully vague* point in Earth history it just stopped being OUR future. It only seems to complicate things rather than pull together loose ideas and then leave it a bit open to explore.
Personally I think the Prime Timeline converged from ours with ENT's Carbon Creek cause velcro butterfly effect lol
We don't have the time to argue about time . . . . . .
This is not the time 😂
You want to discuss time at a time like this???
😆
Ooby-dooby…
If we start talking time travel, we could be here all yesterday.
Just a theory of mine: If you look at the tech of TOS and then Enterprise, Discovery and now SNW, it seems to be more advanced each time. I think this is due to time line incursions where something in the timeline is altered, but then fixed by a time agent, but not 100%, but the events still play out mostly as they original occurred. Take for example a change of tech, in Star Trek The Motion Picture when you see a wall of Enterprise ships, the fist starship has the Vulcan like ring, obviously inspired by Vulcan ships. But after the First Contact movie where ZC saw the Enterprise through the telescope, it altered the inspiration for the design of the first start ship and thus the timeline and thus what we have in the series Enterprise and so forth.
It makes it harder to ignore the look of TOS as "just an interpretation" given that we have seen it now in DS9 and ENT. As well as the exterior shot in Picard of the New Jersey. The only explanation is "different timeline" imho.
I like to think that the TOS timeline is a timeline where humans have developed more advanced tech between the 50s and the 80s that lead them to reach space earlier. I'm taking inspirations from SPACEFLIGHT CHRONOLOGY book published in 1979.
1950s-1980s: humans develop more advanced tech and works on genetics.
1992-1996: Eugenics Wars. Earth's last World War.
2040s: Warp drive achived
2060s: first contact with the Vulcans
2087: UFP founding
22nd century: Federation-Romilan Wars
2260s: TOS
This timeline is then erased with the Temporal Wars and is replaced with the prime timeline (that still changes during the Temporal wars)
Somebody else I follow has suggested that the Romulan agent, or possibly another such agent, has already eliminated the "first" Khan back in 1992, and this Khan that we see, the child from the episode, is a second Khan, one created by Dr. Sung.
That still doesn't explain why Dr. Sung was looking into Project Khan, or whatever it was called, in 2024, as seen in Picard season 2, while already having produced an augment child in 2022.
Where does it state the date was 2022 all i heard when they poped into Toranto canada was mid 21 century.
Well the lady said that she was supposed to carry out her mission in 1992, and she's been at it for 30 years, so while it's never stated outright, we just assume it's 2022.
Which, of course, could be wrong, and it still doesn't answer my question.
@@MBF78 I don't remember a bridge being bombed last year in canada.
Literally as the line about 1992 was being given I was thinking that the Eugenics Wars originally happened in the 90s. Then that line dropped.
I appreciate you bringing up the question about about timelines being altered.
You're right about it being quite the mess to put together. Especially if you consider different universes existing, which would mean even if a timeline is "preserved", in one way or another the "bad timelines" somehow still exist anyway.
The easiest headcanon for the 1992-1996 issue is that they were using a different calendar, do they ever say for certain that its the Gregorian calendar?
Delay was already established in older shows. Now we confirmation why it did happen.
No. The easiest headcanon is that Spock got the date wrong. He himself admitted that he was making an educated guess as to the date of the wars, based off of what information is available, because records from that time period were fragmentary.
@@ObsdnBlck That never made sense to me. How could we lose track so bad that we didn't know what year it was while also maintaining all of our technological advancement?
@@phunkydroidWorld War III. A global nuclear holocaust that wiped out pretty much every government in earth, and EMPs that would have fried a lot of technology. And Earth retained our technology. The Vulcans helped up rebuild and climb out of the rubble. It's entirely believable that information from that Era would be lost in the coming nuclear war.
I’d add that SNW is in line with Voyager which showed the 90s with no eugenics wars
Or Enterprise what mention that it happen later... etc.
So much time traveling stuff has happened in Star Trek that you have temporal incursions within temporal incursions that it gets more confusing.
Khan Noonien-Singh was supposed to have caused the Eugenics Wars in the 1990s, as pointed out in the Original Series by Khan Noonien-Singh himself. Then Star Trek Picard shows Adam Soong pulls out a file called Project Khan in 2024 in Los Angeles. Star Trek Strange New Worlds recent season 2 episode has La'an time travel to 2022 and meets her ancestor Khan as a child in Ontario, Canada.
The Romulan Sera, who was trying to kill Khan, mentioned that the timeline changed when she time traveled to the 1990s to originally kill Khan but then had to wait 30 more years. So the events that were mentioned in the Original Series were supposed to happen, but because of time travel and the Temporal Cold War that has been mentioned again, it was delayed.
They showed the 90's in Star Trek Voyager when Voyager ended up there because of Captain Braxton but there were no signs of Khan or the Eugenics Wars had happened during that time, this might have been due to Braxton's timeship crash landing in the 1960's and that Henry Sterling found it then made his company which it caused the initiating the computer revolution as Janeway puts it. This could have caused the delay.
So the Eugenics War did happen in the 90's but then didn't and happen later as part of the Second Civil War and World War 3 as Pike described it in the first episode of Strange New Worlds.
No wonder Temporal Investigation gets annoyed when someone messes and #@%$! with time. Even they wonder if they are living in an alternate timeline like when they asked Sisko about his time travel event that involved meeting Kirk on Deep Space K-7 and on his Enterprise when dealing with a Klingon who put a bomb in a tribble. Also Odo did a Star Trek IV the Voyage Home move when he brought a tribble back with him so the tribbles were brought back from extinction since Worf mentioned that the Klingons wiped them out when they found the Tribble homeworld. The Klingons most likely wiped out the reptilian predators that eat Tribbles too when they bombarded the planet since Dr. Phlox from Star Trek Enterprise mentioned that the Reptilian predators on the Tribble homeworld keep the Tribble population in check so that they don't overpopulate even Spock mentioned these predators when the tribbles first showed up after he and Kirk asked Cyrano Jones where he got the tribbles. Although, in Star Trek the Animated series, the Klingons created a predator called a Gloomer to deal with the tribbles after their encounter in the Original Series but it got scared after seeing a huge tribble created by Cyrano Jones which he made so that they don't ruin ecosystem when they eat because these ones don't breed when they eat but got bigger and for some reason they were pink. (There is actually a production reason why they were pink.) Although later in that episode, McCoy found out that these big Tribbles were colonies of tribbles bunched together into these big ones. He injected them with a drug compound called neoethylene, which separated them and made them eat at a slower rate. (But then that stupid Short Trek episode decided to contradict that say that they breed slow instead of fast and only start to breed fast because of a Starfleet Officer who experimented on them with his own dna because he was obsessed with wanting to eat Tribbles. Why would you want to eat a tribble, you sick bastard!? Especially ones that have his DNA in them. He is basically eating tribbles that are part human and technically would be his children and so on. In other words: TRIBBLES ARE PEOPLE!!! TRIBBLES ARE PEOPLE!!! ( Being hauled away while saying this) (Okay, not really being hauled away. I wanted to reference the ending scene of the Soylent Green movie.)
Me then: At least Tribbles aren't dangerous or cannibals.
Later in Star Trek Picard:
Riker: A Mighty Klingon taken aback by the even Mighter Attack Tribble.
Me: Why Section 31!? Why would you make that and give it three mouths!?
Later in Star Trek Online:
Introduces cannibal tribbles.
Me: Why would you make it a cannibal and give it sharp teeth!? And is it on offshoot of that Attack Tribble?
hopefully this mean the Future Disco timeline will eventually get retcon or shunt off into a different branch.
We actually don't know what year it was when La'an went back, all we know it is early 21st century, no date was ever given.
The timeline seen on the gadget in this episode shows the timeline split and merge again, I assume that shows the two branches leading to khan happening in different years but both still leading to the original future.
I agree with your statement at 3:36 regarding the continuity between TOS and Discovery and SNW. Another point of divergence can be found in the Star Trek Discovery episode "if memory serves" where we learn that Michael Burnham should have died as a child, but was saved due to her mother warning about her death using time travel. This led to her growing up to becoming star fleet's first mutineer. This is something Spock confirmed never to have happened in the TOS episode "The Tholian Web." Ever since then I have understood that this show takes place in its own continuity. Paramount has also gone on record saying that Discovery is a "reboot" of Star Trek.
Well, we already knew that Secret Hideout shows take place in a different timeline than classic Star Trek, just by virtue of how events appear to play out differently in them from classic Trek. For example, Picard S1 establishes that the episode "Measure of a Man" either did not happen or the outcome was that Data IS property. Picard's case in the episode was explicitly that studying and replicating Data would result in android slavery, and on that basis it was ruled that Data is a sentient being with human rights... But a slave race of androids is EXACTLY what we saw in Picard S1, so it has to be a different timeline. There are many, many examples of these sorts of continuity problems. This episode actually provides something of an explanation of when the timeline break between Star Trek and Secret Hideout took place: a butterfly effect from the displacement of the Eugenics Wars by 30 or more years, resulting in a universe KIND OF like Star Trek, but not ACTUALLY Star Trek. We can call it the STINO Timeline.
Picard S1 was not a great show but a couple of correction. The A500 androids in Picard were not sentient nor aware, basically just computer programs on a Soong-type frame, part of what disgraced Bruce Maddox and led him to continue his work in secret with Altan Soong, so the measure of a Man ruling still comes into play.
As other commenters have pointed out, this new continuity actually lines up further with Voyager's depiction of 1996 where Khan is not present.
Thinking about it, many issues with the overall timeline would be solved if TOS was taken and placed into its own continuity.
Just beacuse you dont like something, it dont make it less canon
@@CertifiablyIngame I question that the Federation in the real Star Trek timeline would accept that excuse, considering that "this race is subhuman and just ontologically lesser than our race" was literally the argument for real life slavery in the 19th century. But otherwise, I think the claim that everything after TOS is fake Star Trek is a bold one that I can nonetheless respect 😆
They were still going to take Lal as property to study without Data’s permission.
@@luizeduardoortizduarte4380 sure it does. Or more precisely, canon only exists where there is a determined effort to create one. There is no reason to believe in a "canon" where it only exists in a name and the people who make the shows can't give a damn to get it right. Hell, that's why I skipped 2.5 of Enterprise's 4 seasons. If Berman and Braga couldn't be bothered to get it right, I sure as Hell wasn't going to do the work for them. A canon in name only is merely marketing. They told you the Secret Hideout shows were in the "Prime Timeline" so that you would watch them, not because they gave a s**t about Star Trek. It's just a brand name to them, to sell Paramount+ subscriptions. If I'm going to spend money on anything, I'll choose to go with the Star Trek Online "canon," because at least it's entertaining and enjoyable and something like actual Star Trek (though, man, I just played through the story based on Discovery a week or two ago... They really captured the childish bickering of the show's characters, eh?).
These days, "canon" is for suckers... sorry, "true fans"... I'm more concerned with whether something is WORTH watching than whether I MUST watch something because it's "canon." My whole commentary on Secret Hideout being in a different timeline was really a tongue-in-cheek way of me saying that Secret Hideout is trash and not worth giving this much thought to. Secret Hideout clearly doesn't, so why should you?
This reminds me so much of how timestream changes worked in the Back to the Future trilogy. Basically, Marty being from one timeline, but the changes made by ensuring the Enchantment Under the Sea dance between his parents could occur, had ripples into his own time period.
Kinda like in BTTF2, when they burn the sports almanac, the headlines on the newspapers changing.
Seems like in a way, the same kind of thing is happening here in Trek's timeline(s).
Khan mentions in TWOK that he left earth in the year 1996.
I've been a Trek fan my whole life, and I have no problems with retcons or any differences in. If you get different writers in they will want to put their own mark on it, and you can't expect the set designers and VFX team to just recreate Kirks Enterprise from the 60s if its possible to create something so much more detailed for the HD era. I, for one, just want to enjoy a good story.
I think it was 1997 .
I DO. Retcons are bullsh*t. If they cant respect what came before they have NO BUSINESS Touching Star Trek or any other Franchise. Strange New Worlds and Discovery ARE NOT CANON and i dont give a flying F*** what anyone says.
The Tmp era is my favourite era. it's what made me a fan it all looked amazing when I was 10. The way things are going with strange new worlds keep adding more to the nostalgia of things for me, evan better with its face lift. My dad said people hated tng at first, and the enterprise d now look 😂
Just checked Chakoteya, and yeah he even spells it out in full: “nineteen hundred and ninety six”.
Though the line also says they were already in cryogenic freeze at the time it occurred, which suggests he’s going off of the ship’s records. That’s definitely something of a reach to try and combine the two though!
Especially since the astronomer lady in Future’s End had a poster of the DY class ships being launched on a Shuttle launch vehicle. But then, Picard S2 said we never cancelled the millennial research into aerospike engines and we’re building large interplanetary vehicles in orbit by 2024. So no matter how close they try to hew it to our timeline, it’s still had more space research done.
@DonTiberius35 Yes, many people did hate tng and enterprise d . I think in picard season 3 . The scene in the bar with the ship models . Riker asked why galaxy class models weren't selling. Bartender said . Oh, the fat ones ( a reference to that, I think ) .
But the same thing happened with start wars . Original trilogy, prequel trilogy.
I've got a few problems with this episode.
One: Why does Spock exist? Or alternatively, why does Spock look like he does in the true timeline?
Two: How is Kirk a Captain? Did La'an time travel to the mid-2260s? Where's Pike? Why did La'an not ask?
Three: WHY is the tech identical to the true timeline?
I know that Trek is meant to prompt you to ask questions, but Discovery and SNW suffers from having too advanced tech in general. It doesn't work as a pre-TOS series.
Bingo, hell even Enterprise has tjis isdue but at leadt they did the connie right with very minor alterations. Then Terry did it again with the D. Keep the look accurate but tweak where you can with new tech
I've long just mentally replaced Spock's 1992 - 1996 with 2092 - 2096 in my mind whenever I watch Space Seed. Moving it up a century just makes sense to me. We'd met the far more advanced, relatively super strong Vulcans that were allies but didn't share their tech, maybe had run ins with the Kzinti in, say, the 2070s/2080s that they melodramatically called wars...I could see the human race being up for proposed super strong "saviors" to catch us up to these other races, and it certainly adds to the Vulcans continued reticence in regards to humanity (that some Romulan agents were able to take advantage of). It fits with Archer saying that his grandfather was in the Eugenics War. The bitter aftertaste of the war may have contributed to Mars' independence in 2105. It also means there'd be warp capable ships available on Earth explaining how the Botany Bay was out in deep space. I don't subscribe to the notion that this is an altered timeline or that it has anything to do with the set design on Discovery and Strange New Worlds (the Enterprise has long been modular and easily alterable); it's just a minor adjustment needed because the writers of the show in the 60s never expected it to keep going anywhere near this long. The group that started it all may have been around in secret in the 1990s (fitting the date on Soong's file in Picard season 2, and their involvement in the death of one of the unfrozen people from the TNG episode Neutral Zone that was in one of the Khan novels), but I just view the "it was supposed to happen in 1992" line as a fun easter egg, like how The Doctor's time with UNIT keeps getting confused between the 70s and 80s in Doctor Who. Personally I don't put much stock in the 1992 + 30 years from the time agent's line to place this in 2022 either, as it just adds a non-existent bridge explosion in lue of the (admittedly far harder to overlook) non-existent Eugenics War. I see this story as taking place in the late 2040s/early 2050s, during the build up to the second American Civil War Pike mentioned (I see this as the war in which some soldiers were controlled by drugs) that led to WWIII in 2053. Then we have the post atomic horror in the most heavily irradiated areas (which, along with the drug controlled soldiers, was glimpsed in Encounter at Farpoint), then first contact in 2063. That seems to fit pretty well with Khan's age in Space Seed. I can hand wave away the Millenium Gate as an overhyped publicity stunt no one cared about, and even if they never officially have sanctuary districts the homeless problem in L.A. is by all reports bad enough that I buy Past Tense. Any inconsistencies in Picard season 2 can be ignored by the fact they're in the past to set an altered timeline right (as demonstrated by Guinan not remembering meeting Picard in the 1800s while the timeline was wrong), so to my mind it all fits together very well.
They had moved the dates 100 years forward in the German dub of the episode back in the 70s as well. When I bought my first Star Trek chronology book, I was confused because it said that the Eugenics War occurred in the 1990s but in the episodes I had seen before it was stated as the 2090s. Turned out that the translators thought that the 1990s were too close for comfort.
honestly i loved this. it "fixed" one of the main problems with star trek being the future of "our" world which of course is that time has caught up to some of the lore and now this actually fixes that by allowing it up be bumped perpetually forward based on the temporal war. kinda cool little tweak that gives a lot of freedom for the writing and the future of the franchise without throwing out key elements of the past lore
takes Admiral Janeway advice "It's less of a headache if you just ignore it."
You probably missed this because you wrote the script so fast but the episode also explains the stark inconsistencies from early season 1 TOS episodes and the later ones where originally the Enterprise was a United Earth ship and later a Federation ship. It never made much sense that Earth alone was at war with the Romulans. The Federation is basically EU + NATO rolled up into one interstellar organization with a mutual defense pact.
In TOS, they refer to star command instead of Starfleet or the Federation for a few episodes. Dag nabitt ye blasted time agents!
Star Trek: Prodigy executive producer Aaron Waltke has previously offered a similar explanation for the confusing placement of the Eugenics Wars, saying that "the ripples of the Temporal Cold War shifted the Prime Timeline in Enterprise."
In fact Enterprise already placed it later...
We know that they go back before 2022, because where they "spawn" in, theres a sign that says "Ryerson University " in 2022, Ryerson changed to Toronto Metropolitan University
Voyager, DS9, and Enterprise all mentioned how Earth looked different form the what would have been post Eugenics Wars
And those taking place later...
The net result is that the date referenced in the TOS event is different, so really it matters little - events tend to get drowned out in the background noise of history. I mean just look up a historical figure, even an important one, and you'll see that the farther back you go the less there really is to say about them. Often times if you change a small detail or move it around a little bit, history will work itself out to be approximately the same anyway. Doctor Who pretty much said it. In the end, little wrinkles tend to not be very noticeable when you zoom out to the bigger picture. There are of course exceptions, big ones in fact, and these are divergence points between timelines. So I take a semi-flexible approach when it comes to time travel. As long as the result ends out basically the same, the little details don't end up mattering too much.
It makes sense seeing as how Kirk and crew went back in time a few times in the original series and then in Star Trek IV mid 80s whalers got to see a Klingon Bird of Prey decloak, the US Navy become aware of a remote compact device that could drain a nuclear reactor, and someone was given the secret for transparent alloy. Garry 7 threw a wrench in things too. I noticed the Enterprise in SNW was a little different and it makes me to think that the prime timeline has been modified.
Matches Picards timeline Soongs Khan project.
6:40 IDEA: when timeline got too messed up. someone decided to go back and speed up the Khan project and push it back to 1992
I'm fine with accepting a retcon that explains a discrepancy if it's done so in a way that's funny, which both the line in "Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow" and the bit about 23rd century Klingons looking different in "Trials and Tribble-ations" did successfully. It gave me a good laugh and I was like "yeah okay fair enough" and carried on as normal.
So are they going to do the same thing if Irish Unification doesn’t happen
I believe there's no point in trying to merge the fictional history of Star Trek after 1969 with our real history - it becomes impossible anyway as dates mentioned in the show come and pass and there are no Eugenic wars in 1992, no Bell Riots in 2024 (next year), the Ares IV won't be swallowed by a subspace anomaly in 2032, etc.
Star Trek is fiction, just let it be that and don't try to retcon it into oblivion by trying to adjust it to our real history.
Agreed. Going by the logic of some people in the comment section, the show should change to set contemporary standards of the time the real 2240s roll by lol
I always thought so myself… it only creates unreconcilable conflicts in canon
A nice little bow around it would have La-an (who was protected from the time line) simply to have a conversation about the Eugenics wars with a member of the crew and there be a disagreement about when they took place, La-an would remember history of 1992 but Mebenga would now say a later date, throw away line. Space Seed happens as we the outside observer sees it pre-change. Now in the episode space seed spock reads the record as mid 21st century. Khan taking off late in the Botany Bay doesn't affect when Kirk finds him later
What I love about SNW is that it willing to acknowledge that hey all this time travel stuff continues to alter Trek as we knew things. The interesting thing about SNW is that it is totally aware that in some ways it is a prisoner of the inevitable. Pike leaving Enterprise and Jim Kirk becoming Captain is a fixed point. Even is the last ep of season 1, Pike's future self tells him that Spock dies in every timeline. Some things you can't escape. That it is the one show where the conclusion while inevitable isn't as important, it is the journey and what these characters learn along the way that is far more important.
I love this little detail. It's kinda fun.
Great explanation!
Trouble is that Soong went to Project Khan in 2024 according to Picard Season 2. This episode happened 2 years prior to that.
There is one other spot where they mention the timeframe of Khan. The Wrath of Khan when Chekov and Terrell beam to Ceti Alpha 5 and Khan captures them. Chekov says he's a product from late 20th century genetic engineering. He said they were picked up from the Botany Bay launched in 1996. Plus the Eugincs wars happened in Asia and the Middle East. It's plausible that since this was set in 2022 16 years after those wars that things picked up, but the other explanations for what happened with Voyager going back and changed things is very solid.
Khan did always say "200 years before you were born" in Wrath of Khan... so reknitting that old continuity divergence feels like a good thing. May I suggest that your parallel timeline map is in error only because the episode really seemed to suggest a mono-time-stream that gets retconned everytime they make changes. I prefer the parallel timeline approach, but the show plays it both ways time and time again.
These sorts of time ripples was my head canon as to why the NX-01 was not one of the Enterprise lineage ship models on the Enterprise-D.
In the original timeline the NX-01 and most of Archer's exploits existed but the ship was not named Enterprise. Then First Contact happens and Zefram Chochrane suggests the name during work on the Warp 5 project.
I noticed this too. Right away. I didn’t consider it throw away dialogue but you had to be paying attention to catch the full scope of what she was saying. Reminds me of Stephen King’s 11/22:63. But the big question for me is: will this alter Kahn’s future? Will we see the finding of Kahn moved up in the timeline? Like in Into Darkness. Would be cool to see a new version of Space Seed. And surely Kahn will remember La’an.
It's the same timestream, just with some past factors that were tweaked slightly and somehow changed the ship designs slightly.
So here's a real interesting thought. What if all these incursions from outside factions affected Khan negatively to the point he decided to try and unify Earth under him so he had a base to go after the factions that were attacking him? And the action of leaving him alone would have stalled or stopped the federations forming all together.
In my opinion, this is the greatest episode of Star Trek yet.
The thing that caught my attention was that the bridge was blown up by meddling future people. Yet, it is confirmed by Laan that it was part of the "proper" history. That means that the "proper" timeline is the result of uncorrected meddling in time. Working on the assumption that the Romulan lady was telling the truth as she said, that means that things like Chernobyl and the Kennedy assassination (pre-khan) were also meddling. My assumption has always been that the time agents only make fixes when it benefits in the grand scheme and this seems to line up with that but I do wonder what it would look like with absolutely no meddling future people.
Khan being Canadian is terrifying imagine genetically modified maple syrup super humans
It is better to rule in hell than to serve in heaven, eh?
So uhh... which interior is that?
Awesome video. Thanks for making me think.
I like that they're trying to tidy up bits of lore when they have the chance, but I had always just assumed that Star Trek takes place in an alternate future with the Eugenics Wars in the 90s being the diverging point.
What caught my attention this episode was a romulan following the orders of an AI
Nice catch.
This also at least addresses how a character like La'an can go walking around the Enterprise with virtually the last name of a certain Mr Mustache and no one asking why she never just changed her last name - it seems as if in the 'new' timeline, the Noonien-Singh family were an established dynasty before Khan, having entire Foundations dedicated to their 'philanthropy'.
Imagine being the writer of this particular episode and having never seen the wrath of Khan.
I have no problem believing that the writers of any given Secret Hideout show have never seen Star Trek before in their lives.
The in canon explanation would be all those time travel episodes inadvertently creating diverging timelines similarly to how Spock Prime created a new timeline.
To add to some great points in the comments, I think what Wesley Crusher says in Picard about time being like a complicated trapesty illustrates what the writers are going for, as if all real lived history since the original series kind of creates its own flow of timeline events.
All I can say is that I love this episode.
I mean from TOS all the way up to current Trek series I think it's been psudi-estabkished that the prime timeline of the star Trek universe has been a battleground for time agents, temporal soldiers and tinespace wanderers - especially between the late 20th century untill the 22nd century.
Scotty gives someone the formula for transparent alluminum.
Tech salvaged from a 29th time ship jump starts the tech industry in North America by the late 1990s.
Sisko takes the place of bell in 2024.
The timeline of project Kahn flips from ending in 1996 to beginning in 1996.
The Borg collective attacks earth in the 2060s, displacing Cocrans co-pilots so that gerody and Riker have to take their place (with enterprise crew also taking in the roles of ground controll oersonell).
Temporal interference to ignite a Klingon civil war leads to first contact with humanity and the launch of the NX-01. (Plus all the other temporal war hijinks that were told in enterprise "that shouldn't have happened").
A presumed dead bajiran poet is returned to his time and doesn't affect the history of bajor.
By this point I'm surprised that the prime timeline isn't just referred to as the paradox timeline XD
Although, and this was a twitter discussion from last year from the creatirs of prodigy, as well as the time ripples caused by the temporal cold war they also throw out their head-cannon that emp weapons used during ww3 destroyed/erased a lot of earth's 21st century records covering a rough span if 75 years, so solid evidence for events taking place from 1990-2060 are murky and contradictory (which also feeds the TNG era view if earth's savage 21st emcentury - a literal digital dark age)
The Paradox timeline 😂 I like that
"By this point I'm surprised that the prime timeline isn't just referred to as the paradox timeline"
No kidding. Spock is only around because he traveled back in time to save himself after finding out he'd died in childhood.
I’ve always considered each series to exist in its own separate quantum reality. And I’ve lived unbothered by continuity this way for thirty years.
You’re the only other person besides myself that ever says anything about alternate quantum realities. The Kelvin films are in their own quantum reality which is where our Spock died.
They keep saying SNW and Discovery take place in our reality aling with TNG when Picard stepped onto a facsimile of the old Enterprise bridge from ToS. Obviously it looks nothing like the SNW Enterprise bridge. Even if it is the prime timeline, it was altered enough to change the look of the ships up through ToS. In fact originally, there was not even supposed to be an NX class Enterprise. Earth ships were supposed to have been warring with Romulan vessels about the time the NX class Enterprise was in service. This tells me time was metaled with to the point that there is still Kahn, and EW and WW III, but pushed up to within a few years of first contact. Technology advanced on earth faster which explains Discovery and SNW tech events still happen the way they did in ToS, but more advanced with tech, a little bit. All of a sudden, Khan mentions some date in the mid 21st century in which he and his crew are exiled instead of 1996.
@@DavidNicholson101 Genetic engineering is illegal in the Federation for most of the franchise, yet in TNG season 2 there’s a whole Darwin Genetic Station that created super children, that Starfleet is not only aware of but resupplies with the USS Lantree. I know continuity hadn’t made up the fact that it’s illegal until ds9’s season 5, but in-universe “Unnatural Selection” is in a slightly different reality than “Doctor Bashir, I Presume” one can deduce.
I remember an episode of ( the other limits ) with a time traveller sent back in time to eliminate an infant Hitler.
So. Is the TOS 1992 EW timeline the Canon one?
"I've been stuck here for 30 years. Can you imagine watching the Leafs lose for 30 years?"
Spock says in Space Seed that records were fragmented. They could pretty simply say that the Romulan had the wrong date and the wars in fact happened later due to the inconsistencies in records.
You could really go down rabbit holes with alternate timelines and continuities. Hell, one could argue Scotty giving out a formula for transparent aluminum in Star Trek 4 altered timeline. It just need to be taken with a grain of salt in that nobody in 1966 thought the universe they created would still be around in 2023. I kind of like the idea that minor alterations don’t usually effect the timeline much since events re-insert themselves. Only a major event being changed can really lead to complete alteration
As a fan of StarTrek an a Canadian never thought I would see Toronto or Kirk eat Poutine.😊
ST:DS9 Season 4, Episode 17 "Accession" has an old Bajoran come out of the wormhole 200 years after he went missing. He later goes back into the wormhole and back to his original time, and he completes a poem that everyone remembers has incomplete for centuries. To me, a lot of the Star Trek timeline stuff can be like this. As you go future in time, and then go back to make changes, depending on this size things can just fold in or skip rather then massive changes.
Yup. People who complain about time alternations probably never watch the show.
I want them to lean hard into the changed timeline. It'd be cool for the temporal agents to declare the previous a canon as the altered timelines. What about once the timelines are ' restored ' we have a Starfleet led by a genuinely good Admiral Khan Noonien Singh. It would emphasize the 'no fate' and 'universal availability of redemption' themes
Fabulous episode
I just see this new era of Trek to be another timeline that's following the same path as the prime timeline but divergent enough to be its own timeline. The tech level differences, the ship size differences, the changes in how New Trek's society mirrors our society vs TOS era's society being the idealistic version of Roddenberry's. Close enough to mirror almost all the events of the Prime timeline but divergent enough to be its own distinct timeline.
Since eugenics and ww3 has not broken out on the Asian continent at they assumed in the 60s. We must assume that was a different timeline then are own. While the sanctuary districts of 2023 to 2029 and beyond is already happening in San Francisco. We maybe more DS 9 in this part of the time line then the khan timeline.
I like to think that every time that time travel happens, there's a unique timeline created.
In my opinion the episode about uss relativity in voyager is to be rewatched to understand all these temporal changes. And the timeline when these temporal agents came from is the prime timeline and they are immune to the changes due to those special devices, could be portable, could be on a scale of an entire ship ( uss relativity), because of this protection they can fix the timeline or try to keep it as similar as possible. A paradox can be fixed if a previous time point is corrected.
Great video! Although the dates still line up. If Adam Soong restarted the Project Khan on 2024, then how is hi a 6-7 year old by in 2022?