My school’s DW club took us to the BBC to visit the set of ‘Ghostlight’ where we got to meet Sylvester, Sophie and JNT, and watch dress rehearsals from the wings. Sylvester and So[hie came out to have a chat to us in a break between set-ups and they were so lovely to us, and it strikes me now to think ‘did they know it was canceled at that point?’ How smiley and friendly that were, but were they thinking ‘god, we have to meet these kid fans and pretend everything’s alright even though their show is going to end’. Who knows
@@KeiranCounsellKC1994 Hi, I worked on the very last Story, (SURVIVAL) as one of the Cast members, in scenes with Julian Holloway, Anthony Ainley, Will Barton, Sophie Aldred, & Sylvester McCoy, we shot the very last scenes on Horsenden Hill, and on that day I was told by members of the crew it was the very last Dr Who, I thought they were joking, so I asked the Director, (Alan Wareing) and he said the show had been Cancelled by the BBC Executives, so by that stage as we filmed the last scene on the last day on Location, I can confirm every one knew.,
@@Cortinaman63 that is amazing! Its so sad that everyone knew at that point and even sadder that the BBC didnt see the huge improvements to the show towards 1989 and didnt recommission it
I love that moment of Eccleston's voice whispering over JNT's last words. It's like an echo from the future calling and giving us a hint of saying: "It's not done yet. We will be back."
Ino seeing that and jnts kind of meloncoly reaction in the documentary it was from i found very moving so i included it only adding a small camera zoom
I did my work experience at the BBC in the week of 23rd of November 1988. It was wonderful to see Silver Nemesis be broadcast live whilst in the corridors of the BBC with the TARDIS prop still in the prop store at TVC. I was in contact with the production office the year after and they sent me a load of shooting scripts for the final season and there was no hint of definite cancellation. It did need a refresh beyond where it had go to be 1990 but to leave it off air for 15 years was ridiculous.
I really wish they gave McCoy one more season where they knew it was the final season. It could have been so good, McCoy and Sophie where so well settled into their roles and we could have seen a conclusive end to their story. ... but part of me also wonders if the show being canceled in the way it was, and the hunger it left fans is what led to the revival? If the 7th Dr. and the show as a whole was given a satisfying end would fans of been content to see the show end? In the end it may of worked out in a favor, but that guys still a nob for cancelling the show when and how he did!
I was not a McCoy fan at the time. I didn't like his stories from the first two seasons but then his third season happened it was a great turn around and I started warming up to him. I was looking forward to seeing what The Doctor and Ace would be doing but then the cancellation happened.
I often thought that some of McCoy's stories were some of the best in the whole 80s, possibly the whole series- Remembrance of the Daleks has a case for being one of the best Dalek stories, Greatest Show In The Galaxy has a great cast and some terrifying moments, Ghost Light has superb production values (albeit a slightly shaky script), Curse of Fenric in it's special edition is excellent and Survival takes the series back to a London council estate.
@@rossforrest Only amongst lonely fan girls in love with Tennant and not the show. Tennant was "The Meddling Monk" who stole the Doctor's Tardis and went on a lark. He was witty...He could be funny. He was way too often THE HAM.(and the Beeb was way too indulgent to Tennant while short-shrifting fandom) The same fan girlies who hated Matt Smith before he started. The same totally one-dimensional addicts to Always-over-the -Top Tennant, that couldn't and never WILL appreciate Smith's "subtleties" in the role. Tennant was a Jestor....Smith IS The Doctor.
@@rossforrest :grins: Fear not. We all have *our* Doctors. Mine, as for many, should have likely been Baker but I was just old enough to have a couple of years of Pertwee and the Brigadier and so, for me, he was *my * Doctor and he, with the glorious Sarah Jane, are my era. Nigh on fifty years later I still recall being terrified seeing her with that awful spider on her back in Planet of the Spiders ... I must have been ten or eleven at the time and the ropey special effects didn't seem ropey at all to my child's imagination :). Even some time on now, I still get teary eyed knowing that Elisabeth has passed on. One of the very rare occasions where the death of a public figure caused me to shed genuine tears - it was as if my own real-life older sister had died.
The Doctor Who makers at the time had great ideas but little money to carry out those great ideas. There were some wonderful moments and not so wonderful moments. It all came down to money. The BBC was wrong in what they did. If they had brought in a new producer and more cash it could have gone on forever. Coronation Street means nothing to Australians. Doctor Who meant a lot.
For me, it is the supreme irony that, as you say, they didn't have the money for the ideas, yet today, with the magic of CGI, they can do pretty much anything they want, but a once great show has been reduced to pc drivel.
2:13 - There is the very talented Mike Tucker who worked as the special visual effects director for Red Dwarf, the hit sci fi sitcom on BBC 2 from 1988 to 1999. Mike also worked on the rebooted Red Dwarf series when it moved to the UKTV Dave channel from 2009 onward.
Mike tucker... what he could do with the abismal bbc budget is just fantastic and i had no idea he also worked on another of my favourite shows!! Although i always maintained red dwarf was very similar in look and feel to doctor who
"Doctor Who has no place in the nineties" - Janet Fielding ... 😁 well, she was right! It was so intensely disheartening to wait and wait for the next season of Doctor Who and just not know whether or not it had been cancelled or not. I'd just become a fan a couple of years back (we used to get them a year later at that point) and going into my adolescence as a social outcast with this new sci-fi character to identify with and not knowing where it went was so upsetting. Made me feel even more like a reject...
I think one of JNTs biggest errors was introducing a 'Costume' for The Doctor rather than simply a 'style'. And the Question Mark motif really reduced it to a kiddie show level. Though having said that, somehow it worked for Peter Davison's amiable incarnation.
It worked for Tom Baker, his costume was ironically quite understated. And McCoy would've worked great if it had just been the umbrella and not the jumper too.
@@KeiranCounsellKC1994 What I think was a huge missed opportunity was coming back from the 18 month hiatus and Colin Baker still had that damned jacket. Could you imagine if he stepped out of the TARDIS in a new, more stylish outfit? It would've signaled that they were taking things more seriously. Such a waste.
@@seamusburke639 it wouldnt have made a difference by that point, the damage was already done and no amount of reshaping of the costume or character would have been enough at that point, I mean look what happened after eric seward left, it wasnt until season 25 that it started to really improve and it was at the last of the 3 year period it was at a good point but it just didnt translate to viewership at that point
It's sad that the future of the show hinged on one TV movie's viewing figures in 1996 in America, only to be quashed by Roseanne's big cliffhanger with Dan having a heart attack. If we did things today now that social media and videos are spread like wildfire, the reaction might have been much stronger. However, the wild changes proposed for the show were not very well thought out and could have completely twisted what Doctor Who was at its core.
Funny he says it needed someone to bring it into a new era and update it when that's exactly what had just happened in 1987-89. Not even like it's a small update, they fundamentally changed everything about the show. Rings a bit hollow or as an excuse in that context particularly with everything else that has been said about the BBC and the higher ups view of Doctor Who.
You make a very valid point. Season 25 and 26 had indeed already shaken up the formula. Creatively, the show was in a strong place. BBC officials that say the show was axed because it needed an update feels like some revisionist history. It takes some heat off BBC officials if they pretend the show was struggling creatively.
@@dommoore6180 The person who "cancelled" the show said the BBC wanted the show to be updated significantly. Therefore whatever update happened in the late 80s was not what they were looking for. We can further confirm this by looking fowards to the movie and the 2005 revival.
@@jakegearhart That's not confirmation of anything, for a start the movie's history is a whole can of worms and wasn't remotely direct even about it's intentions, secondly the 2005 "revival" was not remotely planned, most people thought it would fail and faced push back on it's road to completion anyway. And besides (again) it had literally just seen that "significant update", there's simply no universe where you look at survival and can't see that. The only thing you're right about is that the update that took place wasn't what they were looking for - and that's because DW had essentially already been cancelled back with season 22 crossing into 23. Before this era of the show even began. "Whatever update happened in the late 80s" - this makes it sound as though you haven't watched the era in question here.
I really do feel sorry for JNT. I knew he wanted to leave several years before the show was cancelled, but I had no idea it was as far back as 1983. The fact he stayed on after the BBC threatened to end the show if he left showed his dedication to the programme and the fans. When the BBC decided to 'rest' the show, there wasn't a lot he could do. People say he could have tried to convince the higher-ups that there was potential for the programme, but by the sounds of it, things had already been decided by the time he was informed. By the McCoy era, new people like Andrew Cartmel, Ben Aaronovitch and Colin Brake joined the show, with new visions and talents. Peter Cregeen might claim that there wasn't anybody who wanted to produce the show or making themselves known as having a passion and vision for it, but from what it looks like, he wasn't looking hard enough or in the right places. It's a shame the classic series ended when it did - it would have been nice to get a final season with Sylvester McCoy where he could complete his vision for the Seventh Doctor, as I believe he is easily one of the best incarnations.
I think the issue is much the same right now, show at its lowest turn with a producer people grew to hate and a doctor they didnt much rate with stories that felt cobbled together from odds and ends. I think like what happened after chibnal with rtd coming back to save it the bbc wanted someone whos rated highly at the bbc to take it over rather than relatively new talent like cartmel and co, i guess its a trust thing. The whole story of jnt is desperately sad, doctor who made his career and then broke his career and he was left doing odd pantos, doctor who exhibitions where he could showcase the show and any video release bits and bobs and documentaries. One really positive thing is because of jnt wanting to show uni students training for television he kept a few 71 edits and studio footage which would have ceased to exist had he not kept them, thank god for the bbc having a lose grip on the archive material through the 1990s alot of material that has since been wiped at the bbc has found itself passed around private collectors and thankfully nearly all material ever produced for remembrance of the daleks exists in various places and varying quality
This was a terrible era for the BBC, their entire program focus shifted to soap operas and talk shows and game shows. This was the era when the BBC really began its terminal decline. Doctor Who being cancelled was in the bigger picture just a minor casualty.
The fact he didnt want to work on it after the five doctors but was forced to by the fact the BBC would cancel it if he left is probably the biggest reason he should be respected, he made sure the BBC couldnt get rid of it for so long, he even caused the uproar when michael grade tried to cancel it by using ian levine and the press to smear the BBC
@@harrynewiss4630 tom baker dissagreed with JNTs changes towards the show and how he tried to somewhat control toms performance and take away alot of the power that tom had aquired.
@@KeiranCounsellKC1994 Tom had been wanting to leave since season 15 and continuing to say he would quit. When he went to JNT, his response was not the same as Williams'. and the toned down Doctor puts him on par with season 12. Not a bad thing.
Sylvester McCoy is massively under rated. His stories were a cut above the Fifth and Sixth eras and everyone was having to make do with what they had. It was sad.
@@KeiranCounsellKC1994 That is testament to the early series that is was such a cultural phenomenon on the budget that it had. There is no shame in that
In 1989 I remember how disappointed I was that Doctor Who was not going to be made anymore . I'd loved the show since I started watching it as an 8 year old boy when Jon Pertwee first started in 1970. I'm now 62 years old and still enjoy watching it. It's always been my favourite show on tv.
Looking back at the newspaper archives verifies my memories - we didn't say cancelled much in the UK as regards TV programmes ending. We said 'ending' or 'being put on hiatus'.
I think it seems so different because there was no progression, i think if it had have carried on through the 90s and early 00s it would have resulted in the same kind of 2005-2020 stuff. I dont think the visual effects would have really improved by much until the late 90s as red dwarf had the same kind of budget as doctor who and their special effects were about the same until cgi came into it (when home pcs could handle it and cost wise it became viable)
+Michael John Faulkner the budget for doctor who wasn't great and neither was the special effects back then but its still my favourite show and I'm glad I've got all episodes from 63 to 89
I'm sort of glad it was cancelled when it was. Season 26 ended it on a high. From what I've heard of season 27, I don't think it would have been as good. At least it didn't end with season 24
Would've been nice for some Doctor to get a fourth season after Tom Baker... ...so far nobody has. It's a bit saddening that they'd actually planned to have a fourth year for Sylvester and Sophie and then they didn't get it because I think they would've deserved it. One of my favourite pairs.
I'm a US fan who was away at college when all of this went down. My dad taped a few episodes from PBS for me, and one of those just happened to be "Survival", which thought was is a really great story, but it had an odd feeling of finality to it that I didn't really understand at the time. It was a couple of months later that learned the sad news that _Doctor Who_ had been cancelled.
Doctor Who: The Movie was a good way to go, even though it was a 7 year hiatus, the episode was a nice send of for Sylvester McCoy and a nice beginning for Paul McGann, unfortunately it got cancelled afterwards so we never got anymore 8th doctor stories.
Whatever people thought of Sylvester as Dr Who, atleast he always looked like he enjoyed playing the character. Peter Davison always appeared to be going through the motions by his third season.
Its a combination, some of the clips, majority are from a documentary on the survival dvd where they talk about what would have happened in the 90s and some clips from the life of JNT which is on the season 26 bluray, its heavily cutdown too. The combined runtime of the features (talking about the cancellation) are about 1 hour long
Sylvester McCoy and Sophie Aldred always claim they were shocked to hear the show had been cancelled but they must have had an inkling it was on the cards. When it was postponed for 18 months in 1985-6, that wasn't exactly a vote of confidence, was it?
5th 6th 7th doctors were my favourites and I think even if your not a true doctor who fan. It's still a British Institute and all these years later I've started to collect the classic series on DVD. Because at the time you don't really understand the stories ECT ECT. But has you get older (in my case) you can appreciate the writing of the stories and they were being written however don't get me wrong some of the stories are quite weak but some of the stories oh very quirky and fantastic to revisit again now when you grow up. And the classic series is a time if you think back when life seemed alot easier then than now!!!
I remember these times (mid to late 80's) and indeed, there was a lot of upheaval and controversy happenning re the show at that time. The initial 18 month "hiatus" (though we were bummed about at the time) was not altogether a bad thing, and the Trial of a Time Lord concept was good, sort of reflecting what was happenning to the show in real life. Eric Saward said in his famous interview he wanted the show to go out w an "absolute wham" but JN-T went for the pantomime-ish ending, which he always seemed to go for (and i agree was not a good approach). I like what Sylvester McCoy said here if allowed back for another season he couldve refined the Doctor more into the type of character he wanted him to be. But more than anything, it seems the powers-that-be simply had it in for the show. For the high-brow drama ppl to look on the show as a "carreer-killer"...ouch, that hurt. The show did need a 'refit' but if the BBC heads more positively backed the program it very well couldve stayed on the air. Did JN-T stay to long? Yeah. One thing he had in the mix which previous producers didnt was the explosion of popularity in the overseas (U.S.) markets, the conventions, and the huge amt of money in the shows merchandising and marketing. It seemed like JN-T was to far immersed in that aspect of the show as well, but thats another story. But when ppl like Jonathan Powell and Lew Grade are firmly adamant against the show coming back....theres not much you can do.
I think what really got the BBC, I mean they always say that they didnt like scifi and thats true but I think a big contributer is that a good scifi is alot more expensive than a simple drama, its alot more complicated to make and I think that aspect really influenced the BBC, I mean these days doctor who is getting the same budget as eastenders... it makes me very angry as I know the complete figures for the new series and I know the classics would have been similar, when the BBC say its expensive to make they miss out the amount of profits they get from it, which dont go back into the show atall. Current doctor who costs 1m per episode to make, every 3 episodes gets over 40m in profits
@@KeiranCounsellKC1994 Very true, by definition, sci-fi will cost more money to make. I can only imagine what the shows budget was back in the early days. I saw a news item the other day, when Patrick Troughton was announced to replace William Hartnell, there was only a small news item in the paper, not much publicity at all, plus it was still seen as a childrens program - its completely different now. I went to tons of conventions here in the U.S. in the 80's and 90's and it was a constant overflow of merchandise sold (all BBC licensed)- how much of that got back to the program?? Both Colin and Sylvester are good ppl and good actors, but i think their interpretations of the Doctor (at least in the beginning) didnt go over well with either the BBC heads, or the fans. Its unfortunate though, that neither one of them had a proper regeneration scene...to bad. Its such a different program now from what is was back in the 70's and 80's, for a time...the same show, but different.
@@johncook8720 no merch sales went back to the program, still doesnt these days. The classic doctors were payed a hell of alot less than any of the modern doctors, every single one of the classics complained about pay, none of the new series doctors have complained about pay apart from jodie but she was pulling the me too kind of pay gap bollocks xD its funny because the uk didnt really have many conventions, especially not like the usa ones but then JNT was heavily promoting the series to international markets
@@KeiranCounsellKC1994 I'll never forget at all these U.S. conventions yrs ago the shock and surprise so many of the older Doctors and companions had at the amazing renewed interest in a show that was a part of their past. I wonder what sort of fee they were paid for appearing, it was something, but not a ton, i would gather. Youre right tho, the early Doctors were paid nowhere near what the later Doctors have been. Who are your favorite companions?
@@johncook8720 i can imagine it bringing happy tears to the eyes of people like peter davison and tom baker and such to know that it came back and not only that but kids in the 00s of like 5 and 6 upwards were approaching them to tell them how much they loved their doctor, imortalised in popculture. I love all the classic companions, some not so much as others but I think the best would have to be ace, only because it was such a huge step in the show to really flesh out the companion, to not just have them in trouble or scream all the time and she even got a huge plot twist story line which must have been the first of its kind. What about you?
Hes more than reasonable as he kept his promise. What he doesnt mention is that he was one of the producers for dark dimension in 1993, he himself was to bring it back but higher up wouldnt allow the funding, he lost his job the following year in 1994 and we ended up with the really cheap and cheerful DIT
@@KeiranCounsellKC1994 It is a shame that we didn't get The Dark Dimension instead of... Dimensions in Time! 😟🤨🤔 As well as the cancellation itself! ☹️ And I too believed it was a temporary hiatus 🤔🤨🤷♂️
The way Dr Who was cancelled was horrible, and sadly it was done and cannot be changed because we have no time machines to travel back and fort in time and space. I do wish the year when classic Dr Who sadly ended, I had been older than 20 say aged 25, 26, 27, 28, 29,30 31, 32 or even older . I do say had JNT left after the 20th anniversary story 5 Doctors, and a new producer appointed it might not have killed off Dr Who like it did .
“The BBC hated Science fiction” Yeah that might be true, but Red Dwarf had just started on BBC2 the year before. The show needed a hiatus and a major rethink and it paid off. To be honest it could do with another one.
While it hurt at the time, maybe in the end a cancellation was a better fate than a slow death under a BBC that didn't want it. At the time, I was 17 and had never lived in a world that didn't have Doctor Who, and it's cancellation was to be perfectly honest, world shatteringly traumatic. No matter what I was doing in my life, I was there every afternoon on ABC (Australia) waiting and ready, as I had been for my whole life, back as far as I could remember.
John Nathan Turner odious man, can see why Baker didn't get on with him, he was one of the worst things that happened to Dr Who and shame they didn't get rid of him on the first day he joined.
If they really wanted another head person in charge to replace JNT someone that may have been compassionate & had a fresh set of eyes, they should have really put it out for tender really, with low funding they really did diminish things and made things unreasonable I still enjoyed many doctor who stories of the classic series of the McCoy era, however they should have been given a larger budget imagine what they could have done!
I stopped watching Dr Who when they introduced Bonnie Langford, I wondered if she would start singing and tap dancing in the Tardis, or some desolate quarry. I don't dislike the woman, but she was more suited to singing On the Good Ship Lollipop, hardly appropriate fro the Tardis.
Peter Capaldi should have taken a leaf out of Sylvester McCoy, Jon Pertwee and Tom Baker's books. He was trying too hard while McCoy, Pertwee and Baker relaxed because they knew who they were and what they could bring to the role.
What a strange time when BBC producers apparently didn't like science fiction throughout the 90s, but at the same time those years saw the BBC running Star Trek TNG which IMO is the peak Sci fi of that decade.
but that was an import- it wasn't home-grown. Ben Aaronovitch said it best - the BBC at that time was run by (mostly) public school educated executives who feared the embarassment of their peers more than anything else and sci-fi is a good example of that. If you look at the sci-fi on the BBC throughout most of the 90s- Star Trek, Sliders, Buffy (yes I know that's technically fantasty), Babylon 5 etc. it was all imported and shown after 6pm on BB2 (what Alan Yentob called the 'cult slot').
@@KeiranCounsellKC1994 I have watched the life of J-N-T on the season 26 collection. I don't remember all the scenes in your video. However I have only watched it the once. It was very good and kept the views balanced and fair that was the reason I found it a nice piece.
Dr Who for me was from 1963 to 1989. Although wanted it to at the time, it should never of have returned the way it did. Before then we the audience were a part of that adventure. From the legend William Hartnell to Silvester' McCoy's truly epic 'Remembrance of the Daleks' TV which still watch time and time again. Then that all changed on the return when with bigger budgets and those that couldn't care less what it was about BBC turned to the same vile attitudes as you get from Hollywood of talking down to us as if they were some kind of self righteous gods. The viewers and fans from all over the World knew what was needed and weren't asking for much as it didn't need it, but totally ignored. The Actors may be good but lost and drowned out by it being about the BBC and pumping in money just because they could. All it has been for some years is a mouthpiece for the BBC to dictate to us the audience how we should think and patronize because as far as they are concerned we are unable to think for ourselves. "An adventure in Space and time" was an absolute perfect golden opportunity to take Dr Who back to it's roots. But no! For some years now I absolutely refuse to watch any modern Dr Who's as it would just increase my hatred of the BBC.
I agree that it took too long to come back. Because I really have no interest in the nu show what so ever. The format, over use of music, scripts, characters, everything.. just feels nothing like the real show. I can't stand it and even find it insulting.
@@calderarecords thats not so much to do with the fact it took so long to come back. The show was always going to have modernisation on its return and have a different feel about it, the classic series towards what we had in 2005
@@KeiranCounsellKC1994 If the show had continued, these changes would have happened gradually. By the time it _did_ return, it was nothing like the original show. The great gaping differences and thus criticism of the two is well documented amoungst fans. This is not unusual.
@@calderarecords no, the changes wouldnt have happened gradual after 1989 if the show had come back sooner. The BBC were looking to completely revamp it for the modern audiences, in 1992 when it was supposed to come back headed by dark dimension the show was to be pretty unrecognisable, I mean just look at the production art done for that for a start. When it finally came back in 1996 with the tv movie we saw again a sudden huge change and a modern kick up the bottom, again had it continued it would have been unrecognisable, go look at the spider dalek design forinstance, thankfully that series got canned.
@@KeiranCounsellKC1994 No I mean if it hadn't have been taken off the air at all in '89. The TV Film which is quite frankly an embarrassment (hence why it didn't ignite a new interest in the show) could have paid for another 3 stories. Everyone always says that it needed to be "re-vamped" and yet here we are.. re-vamped and the writing is so turgid & no where near the level of the classics. Same happened with Star Wars prequels.. all effects, no brains. It's a shame really, because only in Sci-Fi can you have complete freedom, what I call the Blank Canvas, to write anything and go anywhere. But that Sea Devil return.. good lord. Never again.
@@calderarecords ahaha yeah the tv film was a massive cock up but then there were too many cooks in the kitchen and the script was given to the americans to do so its unsuprising it failed to take off, its usually the case that uk stuff thats popular when given to the americans to do bombs. It was supposed to test the water for a full series to be commissioned upon its success but ofcourse that never materialised. In the modern era so much attention is put on the glitter (special effects) that the scripts alot of the time are just half assed, like I seen it in films too. It used to be the case that the visuals were so dodgy you had to make sure you had a bloody good script to sell it. Doctor who though and science fiction at the BBC has always had the same problems when it comes to the writing, usually because of the lack of talented experienced writers in that area coming forward to write for the show and the good ones or main ones being used being bled for so many good ideas that they tend to run out of good ideas
Probably, but then hes probably saying to jodie "the memory cheats" as JNT said in 1987 in defense of the show xD i am somewhat tickled by the fact i called out the new series disaster before it started
It all comes down to money. BBC executives and producers say it was rubbish, but wouldn't increase the budget. Doctor Who earned more money for the BBC than any other show.
in all fairness though on the money given and with the lack of talent wanting to be apart of the show (I mean look at kevin clarke) it was all they could really do, the technology was barely there and if it was there it was well out of their budget. I mean look at red dwarf in the 90s, it was basically exactly the same as doctor who was, british television as a whole didnt really improve until around 2002 in my opinion
Oh, have a day off! There's a bloody good reason why everyone hates sci-fi fans. Star Trek fans are hated, Star Wars fans are hated, and Doctor Who fans are hated. And, as a Doctor Who fan, I completely get it. Miserable snobs who do NOTHING but bitch, whine and complain about absolutely bloody everything. You lot said that during the Smith era, the Capaldi era, the Whittaker era, and now the Gatwa era. I've been seeing your exact comment for 14 YEARS! It's exhausted to be surrounded by such persistent bloody pessimism. And, even during the Tennant era, you weren't saying it was GOING to be cancelled, but you were all saying it SHOULD be cancelled because the romance angle meant it wasn't Doctor Who anyway. You lot also HATED the TV movie for being too American.; that's saying nothing about what you said during the McCoy years (Chibnall moaning about the show on TV!); and the Colin Baker years were hounded for the characterisation of the Doctor; Davison was despised for being too human and not having enough gravitas; the writing during the later Tom Baker years was criticised for being too fluffy; the Pertwee years were too formulaic; the show during Troughton's era was almost cancelled because people didn't like what they had done to the Doctor; and even Hartnell's second series was being accused of becoming a parody of itself. You people are never bloody happy with anything, and it's exhausting seeing you everywhere, bitching and moaning about the 'current era' (whatever era that is) everywhere there's anything Doctor Who related.
Michael grade tried to cancel it in 1985-1986, michael grade left the BBC around 1988. It was peter cregreen who actually cancelled doctor who but michael grade for some reason takes the credit even though he wasnt working for the BBC in 1989
Ace and the Doctor had brilliant chemistry and the actors were very well in tune with the show, the problem was apart from two exceptional shows and a a plethora of mediocre attempts the writing was abysmal. The fact some of it worked was completely down to the McCoy/Aldred team. Bonnie Langford had already poisoned the well as as assistant with that screechy unbearable voice, and those left saw the writing on the wall... A crying shame the BBC knowingly kill it... AND THEY'VE DONE IT AGAIN! KNOWINGLY DESTROYING A SUCCESSFUL SHOW!!!
Thats the entire BBC sadly, they havent got a clue how to make programs or how to maintain them, but then any organisation or business that gets free money without worrying about how to actually be profitable will mismanage
@@KeiranCounsellKC1994 Well, Sophie is back for the centenary special of Doctor Who along with Janet Fielding. Also, it is near certain that Peter Davison, Colin Baker and Sylvester McCoy are featured in it.
I love Dr Who, but it was getting worse and worse as the first two decades passed and sillier and sillier. The reboot with David Tennant and the others was excellent, but with Whitaker and bad writing, maybe another break is worth having, then reboot in a few years.
I grew up in the 80s and into the 90s, and Doctor Who was getting more and more pantomine farcial compared to other sci-fi going on at the time. Aliens, Star Trek TNG, Alien Nation TV series, etc were more gritty and realistic. While Doctor Who was still CBBC wobbly set and cardboard cheap looking. It was edging to embarassing.
Yeah doctor who did fall into the trap of not taking itself seriously enough which its still stuck in to this day and the production values didnt help, for red dwarf this type of thing worked well but not for who
Alien Nation TV series ? Where is that now lol , And TNG was pretty awful 87/89 didn’t get good until season 3. And Aliens was a movie so no comparison.
@@garypayne4284 yeah i think its fair to say 80s scifi suffered mainly because the technology just wasnt there and most scifi concepts that were good had already been done
@@garypayne4284 Back them there was only two forms of media, TV and cinema. TV only had 4 channels. You had to plan what to watch, and if you missed it, god knows when you would see it again unless you had it vhs taped. And TV airs movies all the time, so they are comparable imo. I mention Alien Nation as it came out the same year McCoy's era ended. Scifi was changing just as TNG did from the first seasons as you said . The BBC must have been looking at the style of other shows/movies at the time and didn't want to commit to the tons of money revamping Who to keep up.
Well chibnal complained in 1986 leading to the last chance saloon where the show had every improvement possible at the time thrown at it.... similar to rtd returning, so we live in hope xD
@@KeiranCounsellKC1994 you got to give the bbc credit though they killed the two most loved shoes ever and didnt even brrak a sweat Top gear got fucked then canceled Dr who imgot fucked anf is now too woke to be canceled To do that taked serious skill'nt
I used to love Dr Who as a kid but was completely turned off it during the Sylvester McCoy era. I remember watching some Bertie Bassett thing and thinking "That's enough for me". Maybe I was just growing out of it, maybe it just wasn't very good any more. I dunno.
Funny. I distinctly remember reading that exact comment weekly for the last 14 years. From the way you lot spoke about the show in 2015, the fact it's still around 10 years later might just be a clue that your pessimism is slightly misplaced. The fact the show is still one of the BBC's top 5 productions in 2024 and recently got a larger audience share than it did in 2009 would convince most people that the conviction that the show is on its last heals is a tiny bit misleading...
Thank god it was cancelled. The way it was going for the 8th Doctor did not look good. It was going to be more camp and star Uncle Vernon from Harry Potter.
I was so annoyed when it didn't come back after 1989, When Sophie said she got a phone call but no mobiles in them days come on yes there was! My dad/uncle had one, aso TV adverts for them, pics in mags/papers, teletext .....etc And in loads of films/TV shows in 80's like: Wall Street, 21 Jump Street....etc
It was a scifi comedy, it was more a pisstake of scifi and rumour has it the only reason it got the green light was the controller who was leaving 2 trying to get back at the person taking over. There is a whole story around that show
What's really sad is that Dr Who is in a worse position now than back then. It was absolutely brilliant compared to how it is now. The show is more of a joke and the fans for once actually want it to be rested.
My school’s DW club took us to the BBC to visit the set of ‘Ghostlight’ where we got to meet Sylvester, Sophie and JNT, and watch dress rehearsals from the wings. Sylvester and So[hie came out to have a chat to us in a break between set-ups and they were so lovely to us, and it strikes me now to think ‘did they know it was canceled at that point?’ How smiley and friendly that were, but were they thinking ‘god, we have to meet these kid fans and pretend everything’s alright even though their show is going to end’. Who knows
From what i can gather they didnt know till after the series was complete
Plus Sophie is the sweetest woman on the planet!
Why did my school not have clubs like that?
@@KeiranCounsellKC1994 Hi, I worked on the very last Story, (SURVIVAL) as one of the Cast members, in scenes with Julian Holloway, Anthony Ainley, Will Barton, Sophie Aldred, & Sylvester McCoy, we shot the very last scenes on Horsenden Hill, and on that day I was told by members of the crew it was the very last Dr Who, I thought they were joking, so I asked the Director, (Alan Wareing) and he said the show had been Cancelled by the BBC Executives, so by that stage as we filmed the last scene on the last day on Location, I can confirm every one knew.,
@@Cortinaman63 that is amazing! Its so sad that everyone knew at that point and even sadder that the BBC didnt see the huge improvements to the show towards 1989 and didnt recommission it
I love that moment of Eccleston's voice whispering over JNT's last words. It's like an echo from the future calling and giving us a hint of saying: "It's not done yet. We will be back."
Ino seeing that and jnts kind of meloncoly reaction in the documentary it was from i found very moving so i included it only adding a small camera zoom
@@KeiranCounsellKC1994 It works really well.
the story never ends
@@ericocccams5865 that is wishful thinking
@@ericocccams5865 Indeed. Dr. 14 has just been announced, which means that a whole new era is about to happen.
“The real...McCoy”
God bless you sir
About as convincing as McCoy Oven Chips
I did my work experience at the BBC in the week of 23rd of November 1988. It was wonderful to see Silver Nemesis be broadcast live whilst in the corridors of the BBC with the TARDIS prop still in the prop store at TVC. I was in contact with the production office the year after and they sent me a load of shooting scripts for the final season and there was no hint of definite cancellation. It did need a refresh beyond where it had go to be 1990 but to leave it off air for 15 years was ridiculous.
I really wish they gave McCoy one more season where they knew it was the final season. It could have been so good, McCoy and Sophie where so well settled into their roles and we could have seen a conclusive end to their story.
... but part of me also wonders if the show being canceled in the way it was, and the hunger it left fans is what led to the revival? If the 7th Dr. and the show as a whole was given a satisfying end would fans of been content to see the show end? In the end it may of worked out in a favor, but that guys still a nob for cancelling the show when and how he did!
Considering Cartmel's Masterplan, the idea that it was put on hiatus because nobody passionate enough was to be seen is a ridiculous joke.
RIP John-Nathan Turner.
Let's lament the dead nonce.
I was not a McCoy fan at the time. I didn't like his stories from the first two seasons but then his third season happened it was a great turn around and I started warming up to him. I was looking forward to seeing what The Doctor and Ace would be doing but then the cancellation happened.
I often thought that some of McCoy's stories were some of the best in the whole 80s, possibly the whole series- Remembrance of the Daleks has a case for being one of the best Dalek stories, Greatest Show In The Galaxy has a great cast and some terrifying moments, Ghost Light has superb production values (albeit a slightly shaky script), Curse of Fenric in it's special edition is excellent and Survival takes the series back to a London council estate.
Yep. Johnny Dipshit was not involved in the last season.
I loved the idea that the Doctor was to be a mystery man or time lord to play with the idea of the word Who ?
It's really sad JNT didn't get to live to see that not only would the show come back but more successful than ever before in 2005.
I hardly think the new series is more successful at all.
@@rossforrest Only amongst lonely fan girls in love with Tennant and not the show. Tennant was "The Meddling Monk" who stole the Doctor's Tardis and went on a lark. He was witty...He could be funny. He was way too often THE HAM.(and the Beeb was way too indulgent to Tennant while short-shrifting fandom)
The same fan girlies who hated Matt Smith before he started. The same totally one-dimensional addicts to Always-over-the -Top Tennant, that couldn't and never WILL appreciate Smith's "subtleties" in the role.
Tennant was a Jestor....Smith IS The Doctor.
@@rossforrest :grins: Fear not. We all have *our* Doctors. Mine, as for many, should have likely been Baker but I was just old enough to have a couple of years of Pertwee and the Brigadier and so, for me, he was *my * Doctor and he, with the glorious Sarah Jane, are my era. Nigh on fifty years later I still recall being terrified seeing her with that awful spider on her back in Planet of the Spiders ... I must have been ten or eleven at the time and the ropey special effects didn't seem ropey at all to my child's imagination :).
Even some time on now, I still get teary eyed knowing that Elisabeth has passed on. One of the very rare occasions where the death of a public figure caused me to shed genuine tears - it was as if my own real-life older sister had died.
@@dickiegreenleaf750 it is.
@@robertkeller9828 both fangirled over smith and Tennant, quit it
When it was cancelled! The Doctor and Ace were fine tuned and had at least a season or two left for the duo, at least
Sophie and sylvester were set to leave in season 27
The Doctor Who makers at the time had great ideas but little money to carry out those great ideas. There were some wonderful moments and not so wonderful moments. It all came down to money. The BBC was wrong in what they did. If they had brought in a new producer and more cash it could have gone on forever. Coronation Street means nothing to Australians. Doctor Who meant a lot.
For me, it is the supreme irony that, as you say, they didn't have the money for the ideas, yet today, with the magic of CGI, they can do pretty much anything they want, but a once great show has been reduced to pc drivel.
But cancelling it to pay for Eastenders Ealing sets.
I love the 7th doctor he's actually one of my favorites I think it's really sad that he didn't get an epic and dramatic end
2:13 - There is the very talented Mike Tucker who worked as the special visual effects director for Red Dwarf, the hit sci fi sitcom on BBC 2 from 1988 to 1999. Mike also worked on the rebooted Red Dwarf series when it moved to the UKTV Dave channel from 2009 onward.
Mike tucker... what he could do with the abismal bbc budget is just fantastic and i had no idea he also worked on another of my favourite shows!! Although i always maintained red dwarf was very similar in look and feel to doctor who
"Doctor Who has no place in the nineties" - Janet Fielding ... 😁 well, she was right!
It was so intensely disheartening to wait and wait for the next season of Doctor Who and just not know whether or not it had been cancelled or not.
I'd just become a fan a couple of years back (we used to get them a year later at that point) and going into my adolescence as a social outcast with this new sci-fi character to identify with and not knowing where it went was so upsetting. Made me feel even more like a reject...
I think one of JNTs biggest errors was introducing a 'Costume' for The Doctor rather than simply a 'style'. And the Question Mark motif really reduced it to a kiddie show level. Though having said that, somehow it worked for Peter Davison's amiable incarnation.
In the hiatus videos i out together (2 on dailymotion with link on 1st video) jnt mentions how colin bakers costume was a huge mistake
It worked for Tom Baker, his costume was ironically quite understated. And McCoy would've worked great if it had just been the umbrella and not the jumper too.
I think that’s the whole point, Davison was everything “not” Doctor about him and that was the idea.
@@KeiranCounsellKC1994 What I think was a huge missed opportunity was coming back from the 18 month hiatus and Colin Baker still had that damned jacket.
Could you imagine if he stepped out of the TARDIS in a new, more stylish outfit? It would've signaled that they were taking things more seriously. Such a waste.
@@seamusburke639 it wouldnt have made a difference by that point, the damage was already done and no amount of reshaping of the costume or character would have been enough at that point, I mean look what happened after eric seward left, it wasnt until season 25 that it started to really improve and it was at the last of the 3 year period it was at a good point but it just didnt translate to viewership at that point
It's sad that the future of the show hinged on one TV movie's viewing figures in 1996 in America, only to be quashed by Roseanne's big cliffhanger with Dan having a heart attack. If we did things today now that social media and videos are spread like wildfire, the reaction might have been much stronger. However, the wild changes proposed for the show were not very well thought out and could have completely twisted what Doctor Who was at its core.
Funny he says it needed someone to bring it into a new era and update it when that's exactly what had just happened in 1987-89. Not even like it's a small update, they fundamentally changed everything about the show. Rings a bit hollow or as an excuse in that context particularly with everything else that has been said about the BBC and the higher ups view of Doctor Who.
While the actors had changed, the showrunner and time format of the show had stayed the same. The BBC wanted those to be different.
@@jakegearhart which isn’t what he said
You make a very valid point. Season 25 and 26 had indeed already shaken up the formula. Creatively, the show was in a strong place. BBC officials that say the show was axed because it needed an update feels like some revisionist history. It takes some heat off BBC officials if they pretend the show was struggling creatively.
@@dommoore6180 The person who "cancelled" the show said the BBC wanted the show to be updated significantly. Therefore whatever update happened in the late 80s was not what they were looking for. We can further confirm this by looking fowards to the movie and the 2005 revival.
@@jakegearhart That's not confirmation of anything, for a start the movie's history is a whole can of worms and wasn't remotely direct even about it's intentions, secondly the 2005 "revival" was not remotely planned, most people thought it would fail and faced push back on it's road to completion anyway. And besides (again) it had literally just seen that "significant update", there's simply no universe where you look at survival and can't see that. The only thing you're right about is that the update that took place wasn't what they were looking for - and that's because DW had essentially already been cancelled back with season 22 crossing into 23. Before this era of the show even began. "Whatever update happened in the late 80s" - this makes it sound as though you haven't watched the era in question here.
I really do feel sorry for JNT. I knew he wanted to leave several years before the show was cancelled, but I had no idea it was as far back as 1983. The fact he stayed on after the BBC threatened to end the show if he left showed his dedication to the programme and the fans. When the BBC decided to 'rest' the show, there wasn't a lot he could do. People say he could have tried to convince the higher-ups that there was potential for the programme, but by the sounds of it, things had already been decided by the time he was informed.
By the McCoy era, new people like Andrew Cartmel, Ben Aaronovitch and Colin Brake joined the show, with new visions and talents. Peter Cregeen might claim that there wasn't anybody who wanted to produce the show or making themselves known as having a passion and vision for it, but from what it looks like, he wasn't looking hard enough or in the right places.
It's a shame the classic series ended when it did - it would have been nice to get a final season with Sylvester McCoy where he could complete his vision for the Seventh Doctor, as I believe he is easily one of the best incarnations.
I think the issue is much the same right now, show at its lowest turn with a producer people grew to hate and a doctor they didnt much rate with stories that felt cobbled together from odds and ends. I think like what happened after chibnal with rtd coming back to save it the bbc wanted someone whos rated highly at the bbc to take it over rather than relatively new talent like cartmel and co, i guess its a trust thing. The whole story of jnt is desperately sad, doctor who made his career and then broke his career and he was left doing odd pantos, doctor who exhibitions where he could showcase the show and any video release bits and bobs and documentaries.
One really positive thing is because of jnt wanting to show uni students training for television he kept a few 71 edits and studio footage which would have ceased to exist had he not kept them, thank god for the bbc having a lose grip on the archive material through the 1990s alot of material that has since been wiped at the bbc has found itself passed around private collectors and thankfully nearly all material ever produced for remembrance of the daleks exists in various places and varying quality
This was a terrible era for the BBC, their entire program focus shifted to soap operas and talk shows and game shows. This was the era when the BBC really began its terminal decline. Doctor Who being cancelled was in the bigger picture just a minor casualty.
3:30 The real McCoy
The real crap
@@danielhoward8004 no that's the 13 doctor Jodie whitaker
@@garyshethers9834 :)
The Doctor, The Master, The Rani, The Castellan...
The Cancellation? Never heard of that Time Lord.
As controversial of a figure as he was at the time, JNT deserves high praise for working so hard for so long to keep the show alive.
The fact he didnt want to work on it after the five doctors but was forced to by the fact the BBC would cancel it if he left is probably the biggest reason he should be respected, he made sure the BBC couldnt get rid of it for so long, he even caused the uproar when michael grade tried to cancel it by using ian levine and the press to smear the BBC
He was ultimately a very bad influence on the show I'm afraid. Tom Baker had him worked out from the start.
@@harrynewiss4630 tom baker dissagreed with JNTs changes towards the show and how he tried to somewhat control toms performance and take away alot of the power that tom had aquired.
@@harrynewiss4630 meh. agree to disagree.
@@KeiranCounsellKC1994 Tom had been wanting to leave since season 15 and continuing to say he would quit. When he went to JNT, his response was not the same as Williams'. and the toned down Doctor puts him on par with season 12. Not a bad thing.
It’s unfortunate how much Peter Cregeen looks like Harold Shipman here
I suspect we'll have a similar video for the RTD/Gatwa era.
Sylvester McCoy is massively under rated. His stories were a cut above the Fifth and Sixth eras and everyone was having to make do with what they had. It was sad.
Imagine JNT's reaction to the budget spent on series produced beyond 2005
Yeah, i feel so sorry for JNT, time and budget were the biggest factors in why his era was not as good as it could or should have been
@@KeiranCounsellKC1994 That is testament to the early series that is was such a cultural phenomenon on the budget that it had. There is no shame in that
@@evanstephen300 yeah but jnt was always saying how there wasnt enough time or money, imagine what it could have been like with more of both
In 1989 I remember how disappointed I was that Doctor Who was not going to be made anymore . I'd loved the show since I started watching it as an 8 year old boy when Jon Pertwee first started in 1970. I'm now 62 years old and still enjoy watching it. It's always been my favourite show on tv.
God I love Sophie aldred
So do i, i met her once and was so nervous, i think i must have looked a right prat but i dont care because it was sophie aldred!!
@@KeiranCounsellKC1994 aww
I'd love to meet her
I'm meeting Katy manning and Arthur darvil next month
@@thomasstevens2746 she is really nice! I would love to meet katy manning, i was gutted i missed meeting frazer hines
I it when she beats a Dalek up with a golden baseball ⚾️ bat 🦇
I saw Sophie Aldred on the street once. I said “hi Sophie” and felt bad that she had no idea who I was. But she still warmly greeted me back :-)
Looking back at the newspaper archives verifies my memories - we didn't say cancelled much in the UK as regards TV programmes ending. We said 'ending' or 'being put on hiatus'.
They might to give it a rest again and restart after a few years.
The new doctor who is just so different to me that I feel like my doctor who never came back. It's still there in the past waiting and hoping.
I think it seems so different because there was no progression, i think if it had have carried on through the 90s and early 00s it would have resulted in the same kind of 2005-2020 stuff. I dont think the visual effects would have really improved by much until the late 90s as red dwarf had the same kind of budget as doctor who and their special effects were about the same until cgi came into it (when home pcs could handle it and cost wise it became viable)
It should never have been cancelled, some of the scrips weren’t great, production costs too low, but there there were still some great stories.
+Michael John Faulkner the budget for doctor who wasn't great and neither was the special effects back then but its still my favourite show and I'm glad I've got all episodes from 63 to 89
@@peterwilliamskelhorn6675 I’ve even listened “watched” the loose cannon missing episodes
I'm sort of glad it was cancelled when it was. Season 26 ended it on a high. From what I've heard of season 27, I don't think it would have been as good. At least it didn't end with season 24
Glad he didn't give up its my favorite show. What I'd give to be in Doctor Who.
Would've been nice for some Doctor to get a fourth season after Tom Baker...
...so far nobody has.
It's a bit saddening that they'd actually planned to have a fourth year for Sylvester and Sophie and then they didn't get it because I think they would've deserved it. One of my favourite pairs.
Yeah sylv and sophie defo should have had more screen time, they were the best duo in the history of the show
I'm a US fan who was away at college when all of this went down. My dad taped a few episodes from PBS for me, and one of those just happened to be "Survival", which thought was is a really great story, but it had an odd feeling of finality to it that I didn't really understand at the time. It was a couple of months later that learned the sad news that _Doctor Who_ had been cancelled.
Doctor Who: The Movie was a good way to go, even though it was a 7 year hiatus, the episode was a nice send of for Sylvester McCoy and a nice beginning for Paul McGann, unfortunately it got cancelled afterwards so we never got anymore 8th doctor stories.
Not the same but there’s Paul mcganns big finish stories which are just as good as a tv series
@@andisocialproduction9851 that's good then because mcgann definitely deserved a chance
@@TomoBakerinio I hope he's back for the 60th
@@SSJPENGUINUnlikely considering he JUST appeared in Jodie's last episode. Chibnail blew the load too early.
Whatever people thought of Sylvester as Dr Who, atleast he always looked like he enjoyed playing the character. Peter Davison always appeared to be going through the motions by his third season.
I was 6 when Dr. Who ended and I spent my entire childhood repeatedly asking my parents when Dr. Who was going to be back on!
I grew up in America watching it, and wondered where it went. I didn’t know it was cancelled until years later.
Same. Then when I first got on the internet in the late to mid 90s I spent my life with a lot of others asking the BBC that question
Cool feature! Where is this from, a DVD release or a broadcast, or did you make it?
Its a combination, some of the clips, majority are from a documentary on the survival dvd where they talk about what would have happened in the 90s and some clips from the life of JNT which is on the season 26 bluray, its heavily cutdown too. The combined runtime of the features (talking about the cancellation) are about 1 hour long
Sylvester McCoy and Sophie Aldred always claim they were shocked to hear the show had been cancelled but they must have had an inkling it was on the cards. When it was postponed for 18 months in 1985-6, that wasn't exactly a vote of confidence, was it?
I prefer the JNT era to anything from the reboot.
this was appalled when they cancelled Dr Who. I hope it won't happen again.
1:00 Thought he was about to throw himself in the fucking ocean
0:22 don’t worry JNT, Chibnal has you beat there
anything is possible
5th 6th 7th doctors were my favourites and I think even if your not a true doctor who fan. It's still a British Institute and all these years later I've started to collect the classic series on DVD. Because at the time you don't really understand the stories ECT ECT. But has you get older (in my case) you can appreciate the writing of the stories and they were being written however don't get me wrong some of the stories are quite weak but some of the stories oh very quirky and fantastic to revisit again now when you grow up. And the classic series is a time if you think back when life seemed alot easier then than now!!!
I remember these times (mid to late 80's) and indeed, there was a lot of upheaval and controversy happenning re the show at that time. The initial 18 month "hiatus" (though we were bummed about at the time) was not altogether a bad thing, and the Trial of a Time Lord concept was good, sort of reflecting what was happenning to the show in real life. Eric Saward said in his famous interview he wanted the show to go out w an "absolute wham" but JN-T went for the pantomime-ish ending, which he always seemed to go for (and i agree was not a good approach). I like what Sylvester McCoy said here if allowed back for another season he couldve refined the Doctor more into the type of character he wanted him to be. But more than anything, it seems the powers-that-be simply had it in for the show. For the high-brow drama ppl to look on the show as a "carreer-killer"...ouch, that hurt. The show did need a 'refit' but if the BBC heads more positively backed the program it very well couldve stayed on the air. Did JN-T stay to long? Yeah. One thing he had in the mix which previous producers didnt was the explosion of popularity in the overseas (U.S.) markets, the conventions, and the huge amt of money in the shows merchandising and marketing. It seemed like JN-T was to far immersed in that aspect of the show as well, but thats another story. But when ppl like Jonathan Powell and Lew Grade are firmly adamant against the show coming back....theres not much you can do.
I think what really got the BBC, I mean they always say that they didnt like scifi and thats true but I think a big contributer is that a good scifi is alot more expensive than a simple drama, its alot more complicated to make and I think that aspect really influenced the BBC, I mean these days doctor who is getting the same budget as eastenders... it makes me very angry as I know the complete figures for the new series and I know the classics would have been similar, when the BBC say its expensive to make they miss out the amount of profits they get from it, which dont go back into the show atall. Current doctor who costs 1m per episode to make, every 3 episodes gets over 40m in profits
@@KeiranCounsellKC1994 Very true, by definition, sci-fi will cost more money to make. I can only imagine what the shows budget was back in the early days. I saw a news item the other day, when Patrick Troughton was announced to replace William Hartnell, there was only a small news item in the paper, not much publicity at all, plus it was still seen as a childrens program - its completely different now. I went to tons of conventions here in the U.S. in the 80's and 90's and it was a constant overflow of merchandise sold (all BBC licensed)- how much of that got back to the program?? Both Colin and Sylvester are good ppl and good actors, but i think their interpretations of the Doctor (at least in the beginning) didnt go over well with either the BBC heads, or the fans. Its unfortunate though, that neither one of them had a proper regeneration scene...to bad. Its such a different program now from what is was back in the 70's and 80's, for a time...the same show, but different.
@@johncook8720 no merch sales went back to the program, still doesnt these days. The classic doctors were payed a hell of alot less than any of the modern doctors, every single one of the classics complained about pay, none of the new series doctors have complained about pay apart from jodie but she was pulling the me too kind of pay gap bollocks xD its funny because the uk didnt really have many conventions, especially not like the usa ones but then JNT was heavily promoting the series to international markets
@@KeiranCounsellKC1994 I'll never forget at all these U.S. conventions yrs ago the shock and surprise so many of the older Doctors and companions had at the amazing renewed interest in a show that was a part of their past. I wonder what sort of fee they were paid for appearing, it was something, but not a ton, i would gather. Youre right tho, the early Doctors were paid nowhere near what the later Doctors have been. Who are your favorite companions?
@@johncook8720 i can imagine it bringing happy tears to the eyes of people like peter davison and tom baker and such to know that it came back and not only that but kids in the 00s of like 5 and 6 upwards were approaching them to tell them how much they loved their doctor, imortalised in popculture. I love all the classic companions, some not so much as others but I think the best would have to be ace, only because it was such a huge step in the show to really flesh out the companion, to not just have them in trouble or scream all the time and she even got a huge plot twist story line which must have been the first of its kind. What about you?
0:12 HE TALKS LIKE A DALEK!!!!!!!
Everyone in a good position of the BBC talks like a dalek xD news readers even act like daleks xD
Peter Cregeen is pretty reasonable. I was unhappy at the time but business is business.
Hes more than reasonable as he kept his promise. What he doesnt mention is that he was one of the producers for dark dimension in 1993, he himself was to bring it back but higher up wouldnt allow the funding, he lost his job the following year in 1994 and we ended up with the really cheap and cheerful DIT
@@KeiranCounsellKC1994 It is a shame that we didn't get The Dark Dimension instead of... Dimensions in Time! 😟🤨🤔 As well as the cancellation itself! ☹️ And I too believed it was a temporary hiatus 🤔🤨🤷♂️
@@alexhenderson1312 well dimensions in time was next to nothing cost and dark dimension was well more than the BBC were willing to pay
1:43 "Who" was Gonna produce it?
The way Dr Who was cancelled was horrible, and sadly it was done and cannot be changed because we have no time machines to travel back and fort in time and space. I do wish the year when classic Dr Who sadly ended, I had been older than 20 say aged 25, 26, 27, 28, 29,30 31, 32 or even older . I do say had JNT left after the 20th anniversary story 5 Doctors, and a new producer appointed it might not have killed off Dr Who like it did .
thank you
“The BBC hated Science fiction”
Yeah that might be true, but Red Dwarf had just started on BBC2 the year before. The show needed a hiatus and a major rethink and it paid off. To be honest it could do with another one.
but the Red Dwarf documentaries showed how it got started and it was by sheer luck... season 2 was also strong enough to get a renewal, fortunately...
Plus it was a comedy: Sci-fi was considered to be childrens stuff, so comedy was vetter
@@Lukecash2 exactly- it's the comedy aspect of it (plus the whole 'cult' appeal) that kept it going.
While it hurt at the time, maybe in the end a cancellation was a better fate than a slow death under a BBC that didn't want it.
At the time, I was 17 and had never lived in a world that didn't have Doctor Who, and it's cancellation was to be perfectly honest, world shatteringly traumatic.
No matter what I was doing in my life, I was there every afternoon on ABC (Australia) waiting and ready, as I had been for my whole life, back as far as I could remember.
Bring on 'The Cancellation, Part Two', please.
It should have been left to gather dust in the BBC archives.
1:00 omg i thought he was gonna jump
1:00 Anyone else think for a split second that he was going to jump into the ocean?
John Nathan Turner odious man, can see why Baker didn't get on with him, he was one of the worst things that happened to Dr Who and shame they didn't get rid of him on the first day he joined.
During patrick troughton as runner? Thats when he joined
I said what i said :)
@@Iamjames1985 it could have been far worse
@@KeiranCounsellKC1994 The fact he harassed men under the age of consent is just gross.
@@Iamjames1985 i wasnt aware of this but its unsuprising, it is the BBC
It sounds like the guy who canceled it has come to regret what he did both times.
I thought it was Michael Grade (director general at the BBC) who cancelled DW
That’s the 1985 cancellation
@@jamestheposh never knew it was cancelled twice.
If they really wanted another head person in charge to replace JNT someone that may have been compassionate & had a fresh set of eyes, they should have really put it out for tender really, with low funding they really did diminish things and made things unreasonable I still enjoyed many doctor who stories of the classic series of the McCoy era, however they should have been given a larger budget imagine what they could have done!
I stopped watching Dr Who when they introduced Bonnie Langford, I wondered if she would start singing and tap dancing in the Tardis, or some desolate quarry. I don't dislike the woman, but she was more suited to singing On the Good Ship Lollipop, hardly appropriate fro the Tardis.
When we’re these interviews done?
Probably round the time of the survival dvd release, round 2007
Sylvester talks like 7. It’s funny how some of the best Doctors are barely even acting. They’re just playing themselves
Peter Capaldi should have taken a leaf out of Sylvester McCoy, Jon Pertwee and Tom Baker's books. He was trying too hard while McCoy, Pertwee and Baker relaxed because they knew who they were and what they could bring to the role.
What a strange time when BBC producers apparently didn't like science fiction throughout the 90s, but at the same time those years saw the BBC running Star Trek TNG which IMO is the peak Sci fi of that decade.
but that was an import- it wasn't home-grown. Ben Aaronovitch said it best - the BBC at that time was run by (mostly) public school educated executives who feared the embarassment of their peers more than anything else and sci-fi is a good example of that. If you look at the sci-fi on the BBC throughout most of the 90s- Star Trek, Sliders, Buffy (yes I know that's technically fantasty), Babylon 5 etc. it was all imported and shown after 6pm on BB2 (what Alan Yentob called the 'cult slot').
It was for the better that they axed it in 1990 and then brought it back in 2005.
No shit Sherlock
Is this on the Blu-ray collections documentary?
One is on both bluray and dvd (survival) the life of jnt one is only on bluray (bonus disc)
@@KeiranCounsellKC1994 I have watched the life of J-N-T on the season 26 collection. I don't remember all the scenes in your video. However I have only watched it the once. It was very good and kept the views balanced and fair that was the reason I found it a nice piece.
you haven't changed a lick, sophie!
Dr Who for me was from 1963 to 1989. Although wanted it to at the time, it should never of have returned the way it did. Before then we the audience were a part of that adventure. From the legend William Hartnell to Silvester' McCoy's truly epic 'Remembrance of the Daleks' TV which still watch time and time again. Then that all changed on the return when with bigger budgets and those that couldn't care less what it was about BBC turned to the same vile attitudes as you get from Hollywood of talking down to us as if they were some kind of self righteous gods. The viewers and fans from all over the World knew what was needed and weren't asking for much as it didn't need it, but totally ignored. The Actors may be good but lost and drowned out by it being about the BBC and pumping in money just because they could. All it has been for some years is a mouthpiece for the BBC to dictate to us the audience how we should think and patronize because as far as they are concerned we are unable to think for ourselves. "An adventure in Space and time" was an absolute perfect golden opportunity to take Dr Who back to it's roots. But no! For some years now I absolutely refuse to watch any modern Dr Who's as it would just increase my hatred of the BBC.
I agree that it took too long to come back. Because I really have no interest in the nu show what so ever. The format, over use of music, scripts, characters, everything.. just feels nothing like the real show. I can't stand it and even find it insulting.
@@calderarecords thats not so much to do with the fact it took so long to come back. The show was always going to have modernisation on its return and have a different feel about it, the classic series towards what we had in 2005
@@KeiranCounsellKC1994 If the show had continued, these changes would have happened gradually. By the time it _did_ return, it was nothing like the original show. The great gaping differences and thus criticism of the two is well documented amoungst fans. This is not unusual.
@@calderarecords no, the changes wouldnt have happened gradual after 1989 if the show had come back sooner. The BBC were looking to completely revamp it for the modern audiences, in 1992 when it was supposed to come back headed by dark dimension the show was to be pretty unrecognisable, I mean just look at the production art done for that for a start.
When it finally came back in 1996 with the tv movie we saw again a sudden huge change and a modern kick up the bottom, again had it continued it would have been unrecognisable, go look at the spider dalek design forinstance, thankfully that series got canned.
@@KeiranCounsellKC1994 No I mean if it hadn't have been taken off the air at all in '89. The TV Film which is quite frankly an embarrassment (hence why it didn't ignite a new interest in the show) could have paid for another 3 stories. Everyone always says that it needed to be "re-vamped" and yet here we are.. re-vamped and the writing is so turgid & no where near the level of the classics. Same happened with Star Wars prequels.. all effects, no brains. It's a shame really, because only in Sci-Fi can you have complete freedom, what I call the Blank Canvas, to write anything and go anywhere. But that Sea Devil return.. good lord. Never again.
@@calderarecords ahaha yeah the tv film was a massive cock up but then there were too many cooks in the kitchen and the script was given to the americans to do so its unsuprising it failed to take off, its usually the case that uk stuff thats popular when given to the americans to do bombs.
It was supposed to test the water for a full series to be commissioned upon its success but ofcourse that never materialised.
In the modern era so much attention is put on the glitter (special effects) that the scripts alot of the time are just half assed, like I seen it in films too. It used to be the case that the visuals were so dodgy you had to make sure you had a bloody good script to sell it.
Doctor who though and science fiction at the BBC has always had the same problems when it comes to the writing, usually because of the lack of talented experienced writers in that area coming forward to write for the show and the good ones or main ones being used being bled for so many good ideas that they tend to run out of good ideas
When was this interview filmed?
2007
It was only cancelled to stop Sylvester from becoming the real Mccoy, he would've been simply too powerful, and they knew the world wasn't ready 😤
I bet Sylvester is happy that he's no longer the worst doctor.
Probably, but then hes probably saying to jodie "the memory cheats" as JNT said in 1987 in defense of the show xD i am somewhat tickled by the fact i called out the new series disaster before it started
He's not. It's a draw between Matt, Capaldi, and Jodie.
@@firecriss1392 ua-cam.com/video/35nzB6D2REI/v-deo.html
@@firecriss1392 You couldn’t be more wrong
He wasn't even the worst Doctor, during the original run! That was clearly Colin Baker...
5:20 weeeeeellllll *cough* Red Dwarf *cough*
Red dwarf was commissioned to snub the person taking over bbc two
Pretty sure Red Dwarf came under comedy
It is a shame that classic Doctor Who was a victim of top people at the BBC who hated the show.
It all comes down to money. BBC executives and producers say it was rubbish, but wouldn't increase the budget. Doctor Who earned more money for the BBC than any other show.
0:18 😢
I hear Danny Dyer wants to play it but he might scare children
Yeah... and... bugger it im going to be blunt and call out the obvious. Danny dyer cannot act xD
All JNT did was apply cosmetics to the corpse. It was already in decline.
in all fairness though on the money given and with the lack of talent wanting to be apart of the show (I mean look at kevin clarke) it was all they could really do, the technology was barely there and if it was there it was well out of their budget. I mean look at red dwarf in the 90s, it was basically exactly the same as doctor who was, british television as a whole didnt really improve until around 2002 in my opinion
I much prefer the Classic Dr Who over the 2005+ interpretation.
Should be cancelled again
It’s funny how the man that brought it back is the one that’s driving it towards another potential cancellation era
Oh, have a day off! There's a bloody good reason why everyone hates sci-fi fans. Star Trek fans are hated, Star Wars fans are hated, and Doctor Who fans are hated. And, as a Doctor Who fan, I completely get it. Miserable snobs who do NOTHING but bitch, whine and complain about absolutely bloody everything. You lot said that during the Smith era, the Capaldi era, the Whittaker era, and now the Gatwa era. I've been seeing your exact comment for 14 YEARS! It's exhausted to be surrounded by such persistent bloody pessimism. And, even during the Tennant era, you weren't saying it was GOING to be cancelled, but you were all saying it SHOULD be cancelled because the romance angle meant it wasn't Doctor Who anyway. You lot also HATED the TV movie for being too American.; that's saying nothing about what you said during the McCoy years (Chibnall moaning about the show on TV!); and the Colin Baker years were hounded for the characterisation of the Doctor; Davison was despised for being too human and not having enough gravitas; the writing during the later Tom Baker years was criticised for being too fluffy; the Pertwee years were too formulaic; the show during Troughton's era was almost cancelled because people didn't like what they had done to the Doctor; and even Hartnell's second series was being accused of becoming a parody of itself. You people are never bloody happy with anything, and it's exhausting seeing you everywhere, bitching and moaning about the 'current era' (whatever era that is) everywhere there's anything Doctor Who related.
you guys are ridiculous lol
Who is the poor guy, He sounds so sad
Which?
Bring JNT back as showrunner! 😆
That would be pretty impossible... xD
He'd do a better job now he's dead
Michael Grade cancelled WHO... but launched Ruby Wax - seriously the man should not have been allowed near broadcasting
Michael grade tried to cancel it in 1985-1986, michael grade left the BBC around 1988. It was peter cregreen who actually cancelled doctor who but michael grade for some reason takes the credit even though he wasnt working for the BBC in 1989
Ace and the Doctor had brilliant chemistry and the actors were very well in tune with the show, the problem was apart from two exceptional shows and a a plethora of mediocre attempts the writing was abysmal. The fact some of it worked was completely down to the McCoy/Aldred team. Bonnie Langford had already poisoned the well as as assistant with that screechy unbearable voice, and those left saw the writing on the wall...
A crying shame the BBC knowingly kill it... AND THEY'VE DONE IT AGAIN! KNOWINGLY DESTROYING A SUCCESSFUL SHOW!!!
At this stage it had become a weekly party political broadcast. So sad
Thats the entire BBC sadly, they havent got a clue how to make programs or how to maintain them, but then any organisation or business that gets free money without worrying about how to actually be profitable will mismanage
@@KeiranCounsellKC1994 Well, Sophie is back for the centenary special of Doctor Who along with Janet Fielding. Also, it is near certain that Peter Davison, Colin Baker and Sylvester McCoy are featured in it.
@@johnking5174 out of sheer desperation if you ask me. Hes resorted to the cheep tactics to try to get people to watch it
You mean like when they based Helen A in The Happiness Patrol on Margaret Thatcher?
@@jamestheposh margret thatcher is well known for forcing people to be happy or they get offed...
I love Dr Who, but it was getting worse and worse as the first two decades passed and sillier and sillier. The reboot with David Tennant and the others was excellent, but with Whitaker and bad writing, maybe another break is worth having, then reboot in a few years.
I think Paul mcgann was very good
Well he was a big movie actor and a good one at that! Its a shame what he was given to work with was... uhhem
Doctor who should have stayed a Saturday night show it doesn't belong in week night slot.
I grew up in the 80s and into the 90s, and Doctor Who was getting more and more pantomine farcial compared to other sci-fi going on at the time. Aliens, Star Trek TNG, Alien Nation TV series, etc were more gritty and realistic. While Doctor Who was still CBBC wobbly set and cardboard cheap looking. It was edging to embarassing.
Yeah doctor who did fall into the trap of not taking itself seriously enough which its still stuck in to this day and the production values didnt help, for red dwarf this type of thing worked well but not for who
And yet McCoy's last season was getting better episode by episode. The creators wanted to make the Doctor mysterious again! And they were succeeding.
Alien Nation TV series ? Where is that now lol , And TNG was pretty awful 87/89 didn’t get good until season 3. And Aliens was a movie so no comparison.
@@garypayne4284 yeah i think its fair to say 80s scifi suffered mainly because the technology just wasnt there and most scifi concepts that were good had already been done
@@garypayne4284 Back them there was only two forms of media, TV and cinema. TV only had 4 channels. You had to plan what to watch, and if you missed it, god knows when you would see it again unless you had it vhs taped. And TV airs movies all the time, so they are comparable imo. I mention Alien Nation as it came out the same year McCoy's era ended. Scifi was changing just as TNG did from the first seasons as you said . The BBC must have been looking at the style of other shows/movies at the time and didn't want to commit to the tons of money revamping Who to keep up.
Now its time for cancellation part 2 dont bring it back its beyond fucked
Well chibnal complained in 1986 leading to the last chance saloon where the show had every improvement possible at the time thrown at it.... similar to rtd returning, so we live in hope xD
@@KeiranCounsellKC1994 you got to give the bbc credit though they killed the two most loved shoes ever and didnt even brrak a sweat
Top gear got fucked then canceled
Dr who imgot fucked anf is now too woke to be canceled
To do that taked serious skill'nt
@@fireball2275 the BBC are known for making great television before driving it into the ground
I used to love Dr Who as a kid but was completely turned off it during the Sylvester McCoy era. I remember watching some Bertie Bassett thing and thinking "That's enough for me". Maybe I was just growing out of it, maybe it just wasn't very good any more. I dunno.
And it's gonna happen again soon
Funny. I distinctly remember reading that exact comment weekly for the last 14 years. From the way you lot spoke about the show in 2015, the fact it's still around 10 years later might just be a clue that your pessimism is slightly misplaced. The fact the show is still one of the BBC's top 5 productions in 2024 and recently got a larger audience share than it did in 2009 would convince most people that the conviction that the show is on its last heals is a tiny bit misleading...
Thank god it was cancelled. The way it was going for the 8th Doctor did not look good. It was going to be more camp and star Uncle Vernon from Harry Potter.
What are you on about what way was it going for the 8th doctor
@@nitrayk6730 McCoy was going to leave after the next season and the actor that played Uncle Vernon was going to replace him. Sad but true.
Richard Griffiths was a really wonderful actor.
I was so annoyed when it didn't come back after 1989, When Sophie said she got a phone call but no mobiles in them days come on yes there was!
My dad/uncle had one, aso TV adverts for them, pics in mags/papers, teletext .....etc
And in loads of films/TV shows in 80's like: Wall Street, 21 Jump Street....etc
I wish it'd been cancelled after Peter Capaldi.
2:01 He spoke to Sophie Ellis Bexter?! 😱
The bbc never had Sci fi? What was red drawf then?
It was a scifi comedy, it was more a pisstake of scifi and rumour has it the only reason it got the green light was the controller who was leaving 2 trying to get back at the person taking over. There is a whole story around that show
0:23
Reminds me of Chris Chibnall
Show could do with another cancellation honestly
Its well overdue for that, i agree
I trust russel to breathe new life into it again
@@SuperGamingpepper im going to wait and see what his new series is like before i get my hopes up on lightening striking in the same place twice
It's far from being all over!
if Chibnall remained and with ratings even lower than the 1980's it might have been.
Twat Sylvester partially responsible for the show coming off air in the first place. He was out of his depth.
What's really sad is that Dr Who is in a worse position now than back then. It was absolutely brilliant compared to how it is now. The show is more of a joke and the fans for once actually want it to be rested.