@@BeardedFordTech Not really sure but today's F1 engines have all kinds of electronic gadgetry. I haven't been keeping up on it. When it comes to belt driven oil pumps, I was thinking about Nascar racing engines. They use an external belt driven 3 stage pump with a remote oil tank. Oil drips down to a shallow oil pan and is extracted and sent back to the tank. It's what they call a dry sump system. No chance of oil hitting the spinning crankshaft. The belt runs off a geared pulley on the harmonic balancer. The pump sits along the outside of the engine block.
@@BeardedFordTech YES, I was able to find a theoretical paper on these designs but IT failed to mention the importance of the solenoid.. By going through and pointing out the solenoid “functions” it makes sure the pump’ s “action” responds to input sent to solenoid.. The reason to understand this concept is to see if use of a synthetic 10W40 in hot environments with the 2.7L would be better to protect engine at 225 F and above.. doesn’t seem to be any technical info advising on this.. Just opinions.. I guess the concern with higher grades is the engine system is designed around 5W30 for decades now..
@@BeardedFordTech Okay, so then only solution to high heat is greater cooling capacity of the oil.. I am a big bypass filtration guy.. I’ve used Frantz filter systems and now the AMSOIL systems.. The systems increase the oil in the system and keep it ultra cleaning for bearings and the turbo chargers.. Proven techniques, but no one wants to bother with them.. Not so interested in extended drain intervals, when the detergent and friction modifiers are gone, or greatly reduced, it’s time to dump the oil.. Thank you again.. You’re GREAT!
Very interesting, it’s actually great to learn how it mechanically works. Now, the bigger question is what parameters the tuning has to operate it. Also, the logic and reasoning behind how much oil pressure is commanded, when it’s commanded and why it’s commanded at specific times, temperature and other factors. Obviously it’s to reduce oil pressure when a high output of oil is not needed in order to reduce that parasitic loss but it would be really nice to learn how it’s programmed to operate. Personally, I’d rather pay an extra 10 cents per fill up knowing my super expensive engine has as much possible oil pressure ALL the time but hey, that’s just me.
Why? I get why they want to put solenoid on for flow control. But why not stay with having it pump all the time and makes sure it’s lubed. So. If the solenoid goes bad does it return to a preset state to not interrupt flow and not starve the engine. Thanks BFT for the detailed explanation. I think sometimes engineers overthink things and makes it worse than leaving it alone. 🇺🇸✌️
True. That is a very good question. It won't have lack of oil flow. There will always being oil going through it. The question is would it be too high or too low.
Good information. I’ll be sure to keep buying older vehicles with less electric parts to fail. With more complexities come more places for parts to fail.
I'll take a fraction less mpg in exchange for higher oil flow. I've been seeing on another Ford repair channel how the cam roller followers are failing on the 3.8 eco boost, most likely due to oiling issues. I can't help but think lower oil pressure at idle and extended idling times are causing the roller failures and an expensive repair
@DLRPyro1 i think you mean 3.5. And thay was fordtechmakkuloco and he's seen 1 and made a big deal out of it. Oil pressure isn't low on the 3.5 ecoboost. Thay was literally lack of maintenance in my opinion.
@stevenn4393 no. I think he just wants to have way more room. It is a tight spot and techs like to lift the cab so they can see everything. But it doesn't have to. It can be done without removing.
Has the 2.7 been reliable over the long haul? I’m considering the new Ranger when the 2.7 becomes available. I’m also considering the 3.0 in the Raptor. But he looks of it by the time you get the Lariat with the options I want it’s not that far off the price of the Raptor if you can find a dealer that sells at MSRP
It's a fairly good engine. There was a stint of bad ones when it came out in 2015. But the new ones are redesigned. And keep in mind. It has a wet belt for the oil pump.
Hey, I know you're a Ford bloke, but what are your thoughts on the new Frontier? Last naturally aspirated midsize. I am curious to your opinion. I bought a 2023 Pro 4x in November last year and got close to $3600 off MSRP and an extra year warranty. It's simplicity and N/A engine attracted me to it And thanks for explaining these oil pumps in the video. Very interesting.
In all honesty. I worked at Nissan for a little bit as well (one of the worst jobs ever) Nissan is not what it used to be. The frontier and titan isn't bad per say but there was quite a few that needed engines. Nissan is also known for the cvt failure in the cars. The transmission in the trucks is a beast though. It has its pros and cons. As far as engine wise. It's not too bad. But really not as reliable anymore. Thats basically any manufacturer nowadays. So the real answer would be. If you made a purchase and it's what you want and makes you happy. That's all that matters. Their engines aren't really that bad. Body and electronics. I can't get behind that. But I will tell you. I'll take a frontier or titan over any dodge or Chevrolet anyday.
I don't know if it's for mpg. I'll have to do so more research as to why companies started using these. Doesn't say that in workshop manual. But not it has me wondering.
Nice video explaining how this works. Ford has this in their 1.0 ecoboost (which also uses a wet belt). The very interesting thing is that if you hook-up the diagnostics tool and monitor oil pressure, oil temperature, solenoid duty cycle and engine rpm, you can see that in fact the oil presure stays constant. The dutycycle is continuously adjusted so at idle the engine gets the same pressure as at 3000 rpm. However, if you press the acceleration, then you see a sudden change in the solenoid duty cycle and the oil pressure goes up. Once the power request ends, the pressure goes back to its nominal value. My guess is that it is more about ensuring optimal oil flow all the time rather than fuel economy. I can also think that the oil grade can be estimated. In specific operating conditions there is a duty cycle range that fits a certain oil grade. Put a thicker oil in, and a different duty cycle is required in order to get the nominal pressure. I am not actually sure such a detection is implemented though.
Thanks for taking the time to explain the Variable Displacement Oil Pump's operation. That's getting into Formula 1 engine technology territory.
Your welcome. Formula one engines run this way? I bet without a "wet belt" though 😁
@@BeardedFordTech Not really sure but today's F1 engines have all kinds of electronic gadgetry. I haven't been keeping up on it. When it comes to belt driven oil pumps, I was thinking about Nascar racing engines. They use an external belt driven 3 stage pump with a remote oil tank. Oil drips down to a shallow oil pan and is extracted and sent back to the tank. It's what they call a dry sump system. No chance of oil hitting the spinning crankshaft. The belt runs off a geared pulley on the harmonic balancer. The pump sits along the outside of the engine block.
Thank you! I really appreciate that…
Your welcome. Did that help?
@@BeardedFordTech YES, I was able to find a theoretical paper on these designs but IT failed to mention the importance of the solenoid.. By going through and pointing out the solenoid “functions” it makes sure the pump’ s “action” responds to input sent to solenoid.. The reason to understand this concept is to see if use of a synthetic 10W40 in hot environments with the 2.7L would be better to protect engine at 225 F and above.. doesn’t seem to be any technical info advising on this.. Just opinions.. I guess the concern with higher grades is the engine system is designed around 5W30 for decades now..
@@richardhiatt9749 correct. It is designed for 5w30 grades. In part due to the size of the oil galleries and the clearances
@@BeardedFordTech Okay, so then only solution to high heat is greater cooling capacity of the oil.. I am a big bypass filtration guy.. I’ve used Frantz filter systems and now the AMSOIL systems.. The systems increase the oil in the system and keep it ultra cleaning for bearings and the turbo chargers.. Proven techniques, but no one wants to bother with them.. Not so interested in extended drain intervals, when the detergent and friction modifiers are gone, or greatly reduced, it’s time to dump the oil..
Thank you again.. You’re GREAT!
@@richardhiatt9749 aot of people have been asking about the amsoil bypass systems here lately. Think I need to do a video on that as well.
Very interesting, it’s actually great to learn how it mechanically works. Now, the bigger question is what parameters the tuning has to operate it. Also, the logic and reasoning behind how much oil pressure is commanded, when it’s commanded and why it’s commanded at specific times, temperature and other factors. Obviously it’s to reduce oil pressure when a high output of oil is not needed in order to reduce that parasitic loss but it would be really nice to learn how it’s programmed to operate.
Personally, I’d rather pay an extra 10 cents per fill up knowing my super expensive engine has as much possible oil pressure ALL the time but hey, that’s just me.
Thats a good question. I'll dig further into it and see if I can find the parameters at which it operates
Why? I get why they want to put solenoid on for flow control. But why not stay with having it pump all the time and makes sure it’s lubed. So. If the solenoid goes bad does it return to a preset state to not interrupt flow and not starve the engine. Thanks BFT for the detailed explanation. I think sometimes engineers overthink things and makes it worse than leaving it alone. 🇺🇸✌️
True. That is a very good question. It won't have lack of oil flow. There will always being oil going through it. The question is would it be too high or too low.
Seems almost like an icp/ipr system.
Does doesn't it.
Great vid bro
Thanks 💯💯👍
Good information. I’ll be sure to keep buying older vehicles with less electric parts to fail. With more complexities come more places for parts to fail.
Hit or miss
I'll take a fraction less mpg in exchange for higher oil flow. I've been seeing on another Ford repair channel how the cam roller followers are failing on the 3.8 eco boost, most likely due to oiling issues. I can't help but think lower oil pressure at idle and extended idling times are causing the roller failures and an expensive repair
@DLRPyro1 i think you mean 3.5. And thay was fordtechmakkuloco and he's seen 1 and made a big deal out of it. Oil pressure isn't low on the 3.5 ecoboost. Thay was literally lack of maintenance in my opinion.
Ford dealer wants over $3k to change 2.7 oil pump belt. They say the cab has to be removed. Is that true?
@stevenn4393 no. I think he just wants to have way more room. It is a tight spot and techs like to lift the cab so they can see everything. But it doesn't have to. It can be done without removing.
Has the 2.7 been reliable over the long haul? I’m considering the new Ranger when the 2.7 becomes available. I’m also considering the 3.0 in the Raptor. But he looks of it by the time you get the Lariat with the options I want it’s not that far off the price of the Raptor if you can find a dealer that sells at MSRP
It's a fairly good engine. There was a stint of bad ones when it came out in 2015. But the new ones are redesigned. And keep in mind. It has a wet belt for the oil pump.
Hey, I know you're a Ford bloke, but what are your thoughts on the new Frontier? Last naturally aspirated midsize. I am curious to your opinion. I bought a 2023 Pro 4x in November last year and got close to $3600 off MSRP and an extra year warranty. It's simplicity and N/A engine attracted me to it
And thanks for explaining these oil pumps in the video. Very interesting.
In all honesty. I worked at Nissan for a little bit as well (one of the worst jobs ever) Nissan is not what it used to be. The frontier and titan isn't bad per say but there was quite a few that needed engines. Nissan is also known for the cvt failure in the cars. The transmission in the trucks is a beast though. It has its pros and cons. As far as engine wise. It's not too bad. But really not as reliable anymore. Thats basically any manufacturer nowadays. So the real answer would be. If you made a purchase and it's what you want and makes you happy. That's all that matters. Their engines aren't really that bad. Body and electronics. I can't get behind that. But I will tell you. I'll take a frontier or titan over any dodge or Chevrolet anyday.
@@BeardedFordTechI drove a 23 titan XD , I wasn't at all impressed. Supposed to be their HD 1/2 , it seemed lightly built and rather cheap feeling .
@@BeardedFordTech I appreciate your thoughts and opinion. Thank you.
Ridiculous technology to save 100th of a mpg . More moving parts etc . Just my opinion , thanks for explaining it .
I don't know if it's for mpg. I'll have to do so more research as to why companies started using these. Doesn't say that in workshop manual. But not it has me wondering.
@@BeardedFordTech yeah has me wondering also . Less oil at idle , isn't that 1 of the reasons that the hemi has issues?
@@kenj.8897 No. The 3.6 Pentastar does the same thing. A lot of manufacturers use lower oil pressure at idle. Sometimes down to 13 psi
Nice video explaining how this works. Ford has this in their 1.0 ecoboost (which also uses a wet belt). The very interesting thing is that if you hook-up the diagnostics tool and monitor oil pressure, oil temperature, solenoid duty cycle and engine rpm, you can see that in fact the oil presure stays constant. The dutycycle is continuously adjusted so at idle the engine gets the same pressure as at 3000 rpm. However, if you press the acceleration, then you see a sudden change in the solenoid duty cycle and the oil pressure goes up. Once the power request ends, the pressure goes back to its nominal value. My guess is that it is more about ensuring optimal oil flow all the time rather than fuel economy.
I can also think that the oil grade can be estimated. In specific operating conditions there is a duty cycle range that fits a certain oil grade. Put a thicker oil in, and a different duty cycle is required in order to get the nominal pressure. I am not actually sure such a detection is implemented though.