Should You Descale with Vinegar?
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- Опубліковано 8 лип 2024
- In this video Marc from WholeLatteLove.com does a side-by-side test comparing the effectiveness of vinegar versus a commercial product: Urnex Dezcal for descaling two Rancilio Silvia boilers with similar amounts of scale deposits. Find out which did a better job at removing scale deposits. Also covered: Why descaling super-automatic espresso machines is so important, cost of the products used, descaling neglected coffee and espresso machines, and why choosing the right descaling product is so important.
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Should be distilled vinegar, apple cider has additives and extra organics.
Or cleaning vinager
That’s what I was thinking… why isn’t he using white distilled vinegar?
No it doesn't mate. It's made from apples.
Ya needs to b white vinegar, for sure!
Nice video. I recently learnt how to replace my shower hose but the Reducer was practically welded to the end of the hose attachement with limescale. I had to go to Wickes and a superb guy helped me out. He WD-40'd it a little then opened up a new packet of a specialized Self-Grip Pliers (which he wasn't allowed to do) and twisted it and got it off. We saw the amount of limescale build up and I asked him if vinegar was ok to use and he said "ye spot on". Then I got home and came here to check in more detail.
Sorry for long winded story. Your video was ace. Much appreciation from the UK : ]
Hey CS, Ya, don't do the vinegar. It's fine for something like a glass coffee pot but all kinds of possible trouble putting through a machine. Thanks for the comment!
Marc
Guys just buy pure citric acid from the grocery store it's used in cooking 1 tea spoon of citric acid + 1L of water run it through your system with 3X 30 min pauses for maximum power and rinse after with 2 L clean water
Video on what is in commercial descaling products and making your own from citric acid: ua-cam.com/video/YQdV2Kb2fCI/v-deo.html
In Australia, Vinegar is about $2 for 2 letters, descale is about $18 for 1L. A little more than a 'dime' difference. I can run 3 descale operations for less then half the price of the commercial stuff.
We know some insist on using vinegar. We do not recommend it. Here in US you can purchase Urnex Dezcal for $1.10. Guessing it's probably available in AU as well.
I'm not saying that vinegar is better or even a suitable alternative, and I have not seen the Urnex product on the shelves but the one that I have seen is very expansive. We ozzies have a history of innovation to uphold and so we will always be looking for a better product, where better means both cheaper and less effort to use ;) Thanks for your demonstration though, particularly in notes on preventing build up to the point there are no gaps for ANY product to work on cleaning it up, it really helped me understand why REGULAR cleaning is required.
Er the element on the right (dezcal) looks just as limescale coated as before you started the test, the vinegar one looks much better but both need way more than 10 mins at room tempreature. It would be much better to use hot water or boiling water if possible. Basically all the descal one has done is dissove away the surface making a nice smooth limescale coating.
Also you are using the wrong type of vinegar. What you have has apple in it, use white vinegar specifically one that us much stronger i.e not intended for consumption. The one you have chosen would be more expensive in general because its a branded food quality one. All you need to flavourless vinegar (pure white), a little heat and time. No commercial branded descaling product will beat that because its just the same chemical reaction.
Also you say that the heavy limescale between the element loops will absorb flavour? Well its not a problem because you should be FULLY descaling it anyway. It may take a while longer but you should just repeat and repeat till the scale is gone.
If you are in a commercial setting and have such a badly scaled up element you may prefer to replace it for a new one then maintain that one properly, thus getting you service coffee again. The old one can be then properly descaled and thus refurbished.
In Germany white vinegar acidity standard is 20%. I have not cleaned boiler, but with kettle it works best if you mix vinegar (approx. 1/3 of a cup) with water (~500ml), boil everything together and then let it sit for about 10 min. So my guess, if you boil/heat the mixture the results should be better with boiler.
Good demo!
Thanks!
HI, i have a Nespresso expresso maker. It's portion sizing is "off" so i'm assuming scaling may be an issue. Do you know if Dezcal is ok for it and if it has an aluminum thermoblock as well? Thanks.
Nice 👍
Which coffee machine build in wall or cabin and blaming in , is the best one and reliable to ? Do you know would have some advice ?
Thanks 🙏
USE WHITE VINEGAR good grief!!!!
I have never heard of using apple cider vinegar for cleaning a coffee machine. Would white distilled vinegar work better?
So you mentioned not to use Vinigar or Citric acid solutions if the thermal heat pump is Alloy, I've got a Nespresso Creatisa plus does that have a Alloy thermal heating system ?
Descale with citric acid. Thats what I was doing for indistral scale
Hello ! I just got the Rocket Appartamento and the manual does not recommend descaling. Any experience on this?
Hi Marc I love your videos, I have a Breville barista express and I just found out that you are supposed to descale monthly. The problem is that I had the machine for around two years and I never descaled. The good thing is the machine is working properly so far ( this might because my water source has a much lower concentration of hard minerals). You previously pointed out that descaling a neglected machine would have little to no effect. should I just not worry about descaling or not? Thanks you again.
Hi Cubsfan, Thanks! If your machine is working properly now you should go ahead and descale. Perhaps you're lucky and your water is very soft. But over time scale will build up even with relatively soft water. Descaling a severely neglected machine can cause problems. Scale deposits could be loosened up and become trapped in narrow plumbing spaces. But a severely neglected machine would probably be showing some performance issues like leaking, under temperature brewing or poor steaming. If you have none of these symptoms then I would descale and if all is well I'd descale a second time. There is some risk involved here. But if you do not descale and there are deposits in your machine you are just delaying the onset of problems.
A good and informative video.
I always use vinegar for descaling my Delonghi EC220, It has a stainless steel boiler, and I descale it twice a year
Vinegar/acetic acid on steel. Considering some of the comments, this seems to make a lot of sense to me. Apparently, other components will react with vinegar/acetic acid, and slowly corrode over time, shortening the life of the appliance. Steel will not react with vinegar/acetic acid.
Chemistry pro's/science lovers, is this factually accurate? Care to weigh in? Thanks!
does your machine still work well ?? the vinegar didn't harm it ??
Love this channel and reading all the ‘expert’ comments ! Thanks Mark and subbed you, greeting to you all from the UK 🇬🇧
Hi DS, Thanks a whole latte for your kind comment and sub!
Marc
Think about repeating with white distilled vinegar.
I’ve watched all these videos about maintenance and they’ve been helpful. I can’t find descaling solution here(Ecuador-in lockdown) but I was able to get citric acid to descale with. I’ve got a rancilio Lucy that I got secondhand asa gift. My friend says he used it for years without descaling it. Could descaling now cause problems?
Hi CS, Thanks for your comment and question. Citric acid is the active ingredient in most descalers so that will work. It's possible descaling could cause a problem if when descaling large particles of scale loosen up and clog something. A lot depends on the water used in the machine for those many years. If it was relatively soft then it may not have caused scaling in the machine.
Marc
works well for auto coffee maker. both glass pot and heating element bit dont know about expresso. Do know after tast is minimal with short rinse.
Hi Robert, Thanks for clarifying. I'm good with using vinegar on glass items as it does work and rinses off easily. In fact I keep marine aquariums and use it all the time to remove calcium deposits from glass items like heaters. The reason we do not recommend for use in espresso machines is the scale that builds up in the boilers is rather porous and can act as a sponge and absorb the vinegar flavor. If any scale is left behind, and there's usually some, it's very difficult to rinse out. Also, the acetic acid in vinegar does not play well with the aluminum boilers found in some machines as well as some materials used in seals for plumbing.
The instructions in my espresso machine (Breville Cafe Roma)say to use only a liquid descaler...do you have any idea why I shouldn't use a powdered agent? Thanks
I have a simple "solution" (haw haw haw).
Thank you for your straight, factual and to the point video.
Hi RZ, You are welcome and thanks for the comment!
Hi, it's actually a Nespresso Inissia Espresso Maker, to be specific. thanks!!
Hi, Nespresso machines generally use a stainless steel lined thermoblock boiler so dezcal is fine. Another option is Nespresso's descaling products available here: www.nespresso.com/us/en/order/accessories/original/descaling-kit-all-machines#
So there is nothing about a brand of descaler that makes it special. Most descaling solutions are lactic acid, the same stuff that makes your muscles ache when exercising. Vinegar is acetic acid, and another popular one is citric acid. The lactic acid doesn't attack aluminum as harshly as acetic or citric acids and so is generally safer. All 3 remove scale, but not all 3 are safe, or perform the same. You can buy lactic acid powder wholesale, and you usually find it in cheese making supplies as well.
Hi, thanks for the comment. In my experience citric and sulfamic acid seem to be what''s used in most descalers. One exception is Delonghi branded descalers which use lactic acid. Some branded descalers also contain a corrosion inhibitor - especially those for use in machines with aluminum boilers. Australian espresso machine maker Breville used to recommend vinegar for descaling some of their machines. They no longer do. I spoke with them a few months ago about this and the story is they were seeing machine failures due to acetic acid attacking silicone seals in some of their machines. It was happening a lot in the UK in areas with hard water that required more frequent descaling to keep machines operating properly. There are people who make their own descaling solutions using citric and other acids. Citric acid is readily available in home brewing supply stores. You may be interested in a more recent video we did which covers what acid is used in a variety of descaling products and how to make your own: ua-cam.com/video/YQdV2Kb2fCI/v-deo.html
Hello. My coffee machine's cleaning light was on since yesterday but l only will receive the Urnex Dezcal descaling powder in a month time from oversea. What should l do? Stop using the machine for the time being or using other acids first? Thank you
So if I have an aluminum boiler - lactic acid is safe and still better (Delonghi) than vinegar?
good to know. Ty for the education : ]
@@Wholelattelovepage lactic and sulfamic seem to be the gentlest options and citric seems to be much better than vinegar (and probably completely safe on stainless steel). but a suggestion i'm seeing for aluminum is raising the ph of citric acid with ammonia. apparently the citrate retains the ability to dissolve calcium and rust but loses the ability to attack metal. i think this relates to citric acid being triple-protonated, so there are different levels of neutralizing it before it loses its useful behavior
Hi, I have a Breville Barista express BES870XL i hope, in our country it si sold like a Catler, but it is definitely the same machine. In manual they recommend using white vinegar to descale my machine but I am wondering why. I am not really sure about using a vinegar.
Could I use some other descaler? Or even should I? And I have same problem about backflushing the machine, breville does not sold their tablets in our country and in manual they just say cleaning tablets. Can I use CAFIZA intead of cleaning tablets? What is better for this machine?
Thank you a lot for your answer
Hi JR, I had a long discussion with Breville at a trade show last spring in regards to some of their manuals recommending vinegar for descaling. It turns out this recommendation was an error. It ended up in the manual based on a recommendation for some of their other products like glass carafes. This came to a head when they started to get a lot of reports of machine issues in areas of the UK which have very hard water. Users there had to descale their machines frequently. Over time, there were failures with an internal seal in the machine caused by vinegar. Breville no longer recommends vinegar for machine descaling. They told me they were working on their own descaling product. I have yet to see that. Until their own product was available they recommended citric acid based descaling products like Urnex Dezcal: www.wholelattelove.com/urnex-liquid-dezcal
Cafiza is a fine choice for backflushing and general cleanup of coffee residues in portafilters and drip trays.
Hil Marc, i have Krups XP5280. Since it has aluminum thermoblock boiler what should i use to descale?
Hi LubenZ, For aluminum thermoblocks we recommend Durgol Special Swiss Espresso Descaler. This descaler is safe to use regardless of boiler material type: www.wholelattelove.com/products/durgol-swiss-espresso-descaler
Important question: You show descaling the inside of, basically, a cup. It's easy to put this stuff into this device, but it's a little different actually using it in a machine.
How do you flush out all the acidic descaler? I saw in another video that you can add some baking soda to the water that goes through the machine to see if some of the acid is still going through.
If my baking soda doesn't react in normal tap water that I put in the reservoir, but it does react when I put that same source tap water through the machine, should I just keep putting water through the machine until it doesn't react?
2 things about this video though...why use apple cider vinegar instead of white distilled vinegar, and why compare the price of one packet, vs a whole container of vinegar that people probably already have at their home?
Hi Andrew, Thanks for the questions. You flush by running water through the machine. For reservoir fed machines typical instruction is to run 2 full reservoirs through after descaling. You are correct on the baking soda test. If it's reacting keep flushing. The apple cider vinegar was the cheapest so that's what we used for video. There's no difference in strength between white distilled and apple cider vinegar so effectiveness is the same. Compared price that way as it was the amount of each product needed for descaling a typical machine.
ok thanks
I just purchased a Breville Duo-Temp pro, they shipped a couple cleaning tables. Can you run those through the machine or what descaler would you recommend?
Hi Sandra, The cleaning tablets are not for descaling. They are used for removing coffee oils from protafilters, baskets and the shower screen. The best no worries descaler for that type of machine is Durgol Swiss Special: www.wholelattelove.com/durgol-swiss-espresso-descaler
You can also use a citric acid based descaler like Urnex Dexcal just be sure and limit contact time to 20-30 minutes: www.wholelattelove.com/urnex-liquid-dezcal
Hi Marc I was looking up how to clean/descale my keurig but after watching your video I'm confused should I use vinegar or the descaling solution in it? Because it keeps screaming "Prime" which tells me I need to clean to help the pump.
Hi Miranda, Thanks for the question. While many use vinegar for descaling we do not recommend it. Tends to leave unwanted flavor taints behind. Especially in equipment with severe scale deposits. Scale is rather porous and can act like a sponge to soak up the vinegar flavor. While scale deposits may cause your machine to not prime there may be other causes like a bad pump or stuck valve. One thing you might try is manual priming. This involves using something like a turkey baster with a rubber tube connected to it. You fill that with water and connect to the water intake nipple on your machine and force water in as the machine attempts to prime. Here's a video that shows the process for manual priming (it's not on a Keurig but you'll get the idea): ua-cam.com/video/B-vXYrkxDps/v-deo.html
@@Wholelattelovepage Wait, Marc, so the only reason not to use vinegar is to avoid bad coffee flavor? Isn't what you and the more chemically-oriented comments also point out the possibility of long-term damage to your espresso-making appliances? Thanks!
Nice video. So how often do i need to descale my machine? I know every state has their own water quality. Water hardness
If there is no guidance from your machine's manufacturer we recommend every 30- 60 days based on water hardness in you area and use level of your machine.
+Whole Latte Love hey thanks!! Ok i have the gaggia classic and i live in Texas
hi Marc, can I use Dezcal for VBM Heat exchanger machine ? and maybe also for Nescafe Dolce Gusto ?
Hi Ko, Dezcal will work for both.
Thanks Marc!
Ko Amin Samudera
You are welcome Ko!
Here's a question for you: I have an old Starbucks Barista model, (Saeco Via Venezia), and the owners manual suggests using vinegar to descale the boiler. I bought it used a couple of years ago and have no idea what if anything was used in it before but I never use vinegar. I use either Dezcal or DeLonghi's EcoDecalk liquid descaler which I happened to have on hand from a previous espresso machine I no longer own. Both products seem to do a good job, judging by how my machine behaves afterward. I'd be interested in what your recommendation would be for my machine. Thanks!
(Great video, BTW. Good info. I love vinegar for lots of cleaning around my home but it's not for everything. ) :)
Hi HFN, Thanks for your comment. When the boiler material is unknown our go to descaler is Durgal Swiss Espresso Special Decalcifier. It's safe for use in machines with aluminum boilers. Fairly certain that's what is in your Saeco. There a chance it's a stainless lined aluminum thermoblock. Even if it is the Durgal is a good choice for use with it. Here's a customer comment on the results after using on their Saeco machine:
"My Saeco Incanto was really slowing down, until I discoverd Durgol. It
transformed my machine like magic! Would highly recommend it to those of
you on the fence as to which product to use. Two words, it works...."
www.wholelattelove.com/products/durgol-swiss-espresso-descaler
Thanks for the info!
helpfulnatural
My pleasure!
So what's in that product to make it clean so good?
Hi Shelly, Funny you should ask. Since doing this video awhile ago we've done another one that cover the ingredients in various descaling products: ua-cam.com/video/YQdV2Kb2fCI/v-deo.html
Short answer...most commercial grade descalers use citric acid.
Thank you for this video! Looking for some advice... I've only had my Nespresso Inissia for a few weeks now, and I had my last Nespresso brand capsule get jammed in the machine and bent. Since then, I purchased off brand capsules, and I notice the machine is not operating like it did before. The drip is very slow, and the machine shuts off too soon. The espresso is coming out looking more like amber colored beer, not at all opaque like it should be. Could this be a problem with scale buildup or could these off brand capsules causing the issue? They are supposed to be compatible and have really good reviews. I don't have any more Nespresso brand ones to test and see. I'm using tap water and should probably be using distilled. I'm hoping my machine didn't get messed up from the capsule that got mangled up in it.
Hi Jennifer, You are welcome and thanks for the questions. First off, do not use distilled water! On paper, one would think that's a good idea. But it will make terrible tasting espresso! mineral free water will over extract the coffee. Unless your tap water is very hard it's unlikely a few weeks of use would cause enough scale buildup to cause problems. I suspect your issue may have something to do with the jammed capsule - but that's pure speculation. I can't speak to the off-brand capsules as I don't use them. Maybe try a few Nespresso capsules and see how they do.
What's wrong with just letting the vinegar work longer than 10 minutes? Maybe overnight?
Vinegar should never be used in an aluminum boiler. Beyond that, as mentioned it can leave a flavor behind - especially true in boilers that have moderate scale deposits which act like a sponge and soak up the flavor. Commercial descalers do not leave flavor behind and cost about the same as vinegar - why risk it?
@@Wholelattelovepage I read a comment (not here) by a chemist that said this is not true
Hi there,
I certainly enjoy your videos! Question, Rocket recommends owners of their machines do not attempt descaling, instead they suggest the machines be professionally serviced. What do you make of that?
Thank you!
Hi Jeff, If it's a dual boiler machine, there are no manufacturers we are aware of which recommend home user descaling. Best bet with those is to use properly treated water to prevent scale in the first place. If not an option, then descaling a dual boiler generally requires a tear down of the machine. Also, many Rocket models use a bunch of electrically operated solenoid valves (Rockets tend to use more of these valves than other manufacturers). Those valves are common choke points for scale.
Its Italian made, go figure. You cant even change the oil on an Italian made car, you have to take it to the dealer.
How could i know if vinegar works with my machine or no? I have delonghi dedica espresso machine
Hi mM, Delonghi does not recommend using vinegar. Use this: www.wholelattelove.com/delonghi-ecodecalk
I have a consumer Cuisinart DCC-1100. Do you know if that uses an aluminum boiler or not? I'm assuming no - but would like to confirm before using. Thanks!
Hi Brian, I'm assuming no as well. Most machines like this use a stainless steel lined thermocoil boiler to heat water - but I cannot 100% confirm it's the case with this one. Here's a link to product inquiry at cuisinart.com: www.cuisinart.com/support/us/product_inquiry/
Thanks, just heard back and they said all metal parts in it are aluminum. So I guess I have no choice but to stick to vinegar!
Folks are saying that he used the wrong vinegar... but I'll say, I used a whole gallon of white vinegar and my light didn't go off. I just purchased some descaling solution from Amazon... I'll see how it goes!!!!
Hi sZc, Thanks for sharing your vinegar experience.
Hello. My coffee machine's cleaning light was on since yesterday but l only will receive the Urnex Dezcal descaling powder in a month time from oversea. What should l do? Stop using the machine for the time being or using vinegar first? Thank you
HI MT, You could probably get away with the month unless your water is hard. Otherwise, any chance you can get your hands on some citric acid? It's commonly available where home canning and/or home brewing supplies are sold. Citric acid is the main ingredient in descaling products like Dezcal. Here's a video I did on making your own descaler using citric acid. Common recipe is 2 tablespoons citric acid powder to a liter of water: ua-cam.com/video/YQdV2Kb2fCI/v-deo.html
Hello from Malaysia. Thank you so much. Regards.
Hello. I got my Urnex Dezcal descaling powder today. I watched some video. Some said let the descaling water sit for few minutes in the machine before letting the water out and some said for 30min. May l know how long will be the best for descaling to work internally. Thank you
So I guess I'll be buying the solution for my keurig huh? lol. how can you tell if the Reservoir is too far going on that particular machine?
Not sure what you mean by reservoir being to far gone.
+Whole Latte Love how do you know if the machine is still good? I had it for a few years and never used descaling solution
You’re supposed to use white vinegar. Any body knows that. 🤪🤪🤪
Hi Pamela, Thanks for the comment. A couple responses... store bought white and apple cider vinegar have the same acidic strength. They are equally effective at dissolving scale deposits. Go ahead and use either for removing scale from glass coffee pots etc. Don't use vinegar to descale espresso machines. Over time, acetic acid can damage non-metallic seals and other components in espresso machines.
@@Wholelattelovepage Marc, Thanks for the video. So, the corollary, what you're saying: Use vinegar/acetic acid to descale glass. "Acetic acid can damage non-metallic seals and other components..." Is the chemistry such that steel parts will be fine with acetic acid. Aluminum, plastics, rubber, et al. will corrode after too many uses of acetic acid?
I want to maintain a misting/vaporizing humidifier. Many manufacturers of these appliances recommend vinegar for cleaning the plastic base. I bought a different brand recently (an expensive one) whose manufacturer recommends using any commercial descaling agent (not the manufacturer's). I think the discussion in the comments of long-term chemical effects of different kinds of acid for descaling on non-metallic seals has been helpful for rethinking vaporizing humidifier care.
I have used CLR or a variant for years to clean my coffee makers rather than vinegar, is this advised?
Hi K, Well, not something I would advise. I don't think the product is intended for use in food/beverage equipment. I did take a look at the product's MSDS. The ingredients are lactic acid and lauramine oxide. Lactic acid is used in some commercially available descaling products. Lauramine oxide is a surfactant commonly found in shampoo, soap, bubble bath etc. I'm fine with the lactic acid. It's the foaming of the lauramine oxide which is an issue. Maybe not for a glass coffee pot but no way would I put that through an espresso machine's boiler.
Whole Latte Love
CLR has instructions on how to use it to clean coffee makers But you have to rinse it thoroughly afterwards to get rid of the nasty taste it might leave.
However it’s a moot point as I decided to try the citric acid method and it worked wonderfully, powdered Citric Acid diluted 1/20 and flushed twice turned the auto scaling light on my ninja off better than any other method which usually wouldn’t work very well and you had to do it two or three times before the machine recognized that the scale was sufficiently gone inside the machine.
It did a fine job and the fact that it leaves no lingering scent, residue or taste that I can detect Has sold me on the technique.
how about the citric acid ? i just used it with my Oscar II ! i hope results to be good :)
Hi R, Citric acid works well. It's the active ingredient in most commercial descaling products.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Marc, you're the man! I Thank you so much for the support, you're really a nice man taking time to answer questions. You've provided me with a lot of answer and tips, I just feel honored of asking you.
But I have one more question, actually the results of using the citric acid are really good, I pulled a shot today and it was much more better than before. But my question, would using the citric acid for all my descaling processes, affect the boiler that is copper for the oscar II ? would you recommend of buying the cafiza products ?
@@PerchEagle Citric acid is fine for descaling copper boilers. Urnex, one of the top names in commercial descaling products recommends their Dezcal for descaling copper boilers and that product uses citric acid. Urnex also makes Cafiza. Do not use Cafiza for descaling! It's a cleaning product for backflushing, portafilters, group heads, drip trays, etc. Cafiza should not be run through espresso machine boilers.
Marc
Distilled white vinegar in large 2.5 gallon jugs will be far cheaper. Citric acid also works fine. My packet of Delonghi descaler states that it contains lactic acid. So it'll react with aluminum just like other acids. There's no magic descaling without acid. Reaction with aluminum will be for a short duration, no major damage. Vinegar is volatile, so after a thorough rinse cycle there should be no off-flavors, once the vinegar has evaporated, there's no residue (again, white vinegar, not apple). And the demonstrated difference in performance is due to concentration, which can be adjusted with stronger vinegar or citric acid.
Good video, your side by side comparison has convinced me.... On a similar note I had an old Keurig machine that I tried to descale with vinegar, I rinsed gallons and gallons of fresh water through it afterwards, but every coffee it made after that tasted like pure vinegar, yuck.
Hi mf, Thanks for the comment. Scale is very porous so can pick up and hold flavor. Acetic acid has no flavor and is a much better descaler. On a side note with a smile... Keurig coffee is rather yucky to begin with!
Marc
Channel name is genius. I love coffee and led zeppelin!
What do you recommend for a copper boiler, Rocket Giotto?
Hi FC, Urnex recommends Dezcal for copper and brass boilers: www.wholelattelove.com/products/urnex-liquid-dezcal
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage thank you kindly for the reply. What ingredients does dezcal use... Would citric acid not be the safest food grade, and for degradation of the copper boiler? Your thoughts?
I don't know for sure but using vinegar seems to affect life of silicon tubings (?) of my Keurig and stopped working few months after.
Hi Edward, Thanks for the comment. Usoing vinegar for descaling in machines can have unfortunate effects.
Marc
how often do we need to do descaling?
Thank you Sir.
Hi n, Thanks for the question. Depends on use level and your local water hardness. For average daily use with water that's not too hard I'd descale in the 4-6 month range.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Thank you sir for the information.
You should always rinse thoroughly regardless of what you use to descale. This is probably why you're getting the vinegar after taste. Would you really want to drink the remnants of descaler, even if it has no taste?
Hi Mark, Thanks for the comment. Yes one should always rinse. With incomplete descaling the vinegar flavor can get trapped in remaining scale which can be sponge like.
Just for the record, vinegar 32oz = $1.99 - Dezcal 16oz $1.10 (2x $2.20 ) so it’s 19 cents more not just a dime. Closer to two dimes 🤷🏻♂️ but I get your point. Thanks for the video.
Thanks for that!
I think he was going by half the size of the vinegar (32 oz /2) $1.00 to Dezcal 16 oz $1.10. You just doubled Dezcal instead of reducing the vinegar. So by Marc’s count it’s 10 cents and yours 20 cents. You’re both right! Lol
As a side note- Usually I’ve seen “people” ( cough cough) do a 1:1 ratio with vinegar to water. Must be why my last machine kept saying to descale even after I did….then eventually died.
Simple white (distilled) vinegar in gallon jugs is far cheaper. Using apple cider vinegar in the video is... strange. And vinegar is volatile, once it evaporates, there'll be no off-flavor left behind. No residue. But if any parts are made of aluminum, yes, that would be a reason not to use vinegar or citric acid.
You use white distilled vinegar
Now that youtube dislikes are hidden, it's not possible to tell this video is garbage without going through comments. The author should have used distilled white vinegar / cleaning vinegar.
Hi TS, Author here... No vinegar is a good option for descaling. It smells and scale can act like a sponge and soak it up. Also not nearly as good at descaling as citric acid which is used in the majority of professional descaling products.
Marc
I've heard that you're supposed to use Distilled white vinegar.
I have Nespresso Umilk and how about to use only vinegar?
Hi SN, I recommend using the product specified by Nespresso.
The coffee machine is hot when descaling. Repeat the test having hot coils and you'll see how well vinegar works. Vinegar'a descaling properties kick in at heat.
Hi ANV, Thanks for the comment - but don't use vinegar. Pick up some citric acid powder and make your own descaler that's more effective, cheaper and doesn't stink!
@@Wholelattelovepage yes i would have thought citric acid was the obvious diy option. might not be the best option, but i'm surprised people use vinegar (other than people are obsessed with using vinegar in everything)
Why is he not using 1 C white vinegar with 2 C very hot water ? The video clearly showed steam in the pot with the descaler .
Just leave the vinegar in longer! Once all the scale has gone, there is nothing to retain the flavour... Also, even the heavily scaled element simply needs longer to descale - however much it has been neglected!
White vinegar is usually just %5-%8 acetic acid. Citric acid is more powerful at same concentration.
Hi TD, Thanks for the comment!
Marc
Hey Mark i don't have a professional coffee machine my model is Delonghi EC680 - can i use vinegar for my machine? :)
Hi Michael, I personally would not. Delonghi descaler is lactic acid. I know Breville has had issues with customers using vinegar causing damage to seals in their machines. Breville was the only machine manufacturer who at one point recommended vinegar. They have since changed their tune.
you didnt use cleaning vinegar.
Apple cider vinegar, really? You should use white vinegar, particularly white cleaning vinegar which is stronger.
Hi JB, Thanks for the comment. I'm not at all opposed to vinegar of any variety (at the end of the day they are all doing there thing with acetic acid) for cleaning or descaling of chemically inert things like glass. But please do not put vinegar into the boiler of an espresso machine! Get some citric acid. No odor, stronger and safer for internal components.
but there's nothing that says you can't leave the vinegar solution 30 minutes instead of 10, giving 3 times the amount of time. my hamilton beach manual says to do just that. Or leave it a few hours or over night. No problems there either. pour in a little lemon juice if you have that. They're both ok
Hi ma, Over the years I've spoken with many manufacturers and they insist vinegar should not be used to descale espresso machine. Breville perhaps the most vocal about that after they had a real issue with damage to seals in their machines when customers descaled using vinegar. IMO lemon juice not a good idea due to organic compounds beyond acid in the juice. If using lemon why not just use food grade citric acid which is available in a pure powdered form? Citric acid is what is used in the majority of commercially available descaling products.
White vinegar
I just got off the breville site they RECOMMEND white vinegar over there own poroducts
Hi BB, Curious where you found that on the Breville site? May be an old recommendation. 3-4 years ago I spoke with Breville reps about some of their manuals recommending vinegar for descaling. According to the rep it was a mistake. Mentioned they had had some issues with vinegar damaging seals in some of their espresso machines with repeated use.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage it s literaly on there web page www.brevilleusasupport.com/bes840xl/care-and-use/care/periodic-maintenance/
@@Wholelattelovepage and to ad t o your comments about white and apple being the same acidity thats completly incorrect white vineger usualy sits around 7-8% apple cider as an average is around 3-5% not sure if thats going to make any differnce. all adds up i spose
Thanks for the video, but you didn't mention how we could say it's the right time for descaling. I've been using my machine "Nespresso U" heavily for one year so far, and I don't feel any difference in performance, nor a need to descale.
Hi, I checked with Nespresso. They recommend descaling the Nespresso U at least once a year. They offer a descaling kit thru the Nespresso Club. As for no decrease in performance you may be lucky and be using softer source water with less mineral content. With that, scale accumulates at a slower rate. Many super-automatic espresso machines come with a water hardness test strip. Results of that test are entered into the machine. Based on that and use of a water filter these machines will automatically alert the user when it's time to descale. Here's a video from Nespresso on how to do the descaling: ua-cam.com/video/f0mF7CIHSYI/v-deo.html
Thanks a lot for the valuable info. I really wonder, why you don't make videos about Nespresso "Refillable capsules" it really worth it, and it's a considerable & economic alternative for conventional espresso machines. If "Whole latte love" is everything coffee, then you have not to neglect such option.
SherifEgypt
Good question. We do a mix of videos including product reviews, how-to's, tech tips, quick tips, recipes and more. On product related videos we stick with products offered on our website. At this point we do not list Nespresso Refillable Capsules. As far as we know Nespresso does not make their own refillable capsule and does not recommend the use of 3rd party refillable capsules in their machines. We do offer Nespresso machines at WholeLatteLove.com. To be transparent, if we were to recommend or promote the use of 3rd party refillable capsules it could put our relationship with Nespresso at risk to the point of no longer carrying their products.
Thanks for this explanation. I was really wondering for that, now it's quite reasonable. Thanks again for taking the time & effort to explain that.
SherifEgypt
You are welcome!
Thank you Mark! I loved the straight up scientific based fact comparison. And I am now completely with you! I was leaning towards the vinegar, but now the vinegar is no no!
Hi MA, You are welcome and thank you for the comment!
Marc
Vinegar can break down certain plastics. Careful.
So true! I know a bunch of people had problems with seals in Breville machines after descaling with vinegar. Some years ago Breville made a mistake in their manuals recommending using vinegar to descale. They've removed the recommendation!
Definitely don’t use Apple cider or any dark vinegar, it leaves sludge residue in your machine, use white
Thanks for sharing
the flavor thing is so true....
please don't use viengar on an old neglected machine or your drinks will make you sick to your stomach even after a full 2 tank rinse 0_0
Hi AB, Thanks for the comment. So true! Acetic acid in vinegar is a poor descaler compared to acids like citric. Scale in neglected machines acts like a sponge and soaks up the vinegar flavor. Very difficult to rinse out. Citric acid is a more effective descaler and has no flavor or odor.
@@Wholelattelovepage yes thankfully I managed to find descaler in my country and jist cleaned my machine. Nothing came out but the espresso/hot water is so much nicer now.
Hmm...Forgive me for being somewhat sceptical of your comparison cleaning, as you are wanting to sell the Dezcal. As others have said you don't use cider vinegar to clean, your grannie would be aghast at your lack of historical cleaning knowledge. Plus, we all know a wee sup of bicarb of soda added to White vinegar is for those harder to clean items. Thumbs up on trying with cider vinegar though, experimentation is to to be applauded. :)
Hi S, Color/origin of the vinegar has no effect on its ability to descale. It's all acetic acid at the end of the day and same strength. We say go ahead and use vinegar on glass items - but not in espresso machines! Just ask Breville...they had to do an about face as the only machine manufacturer who at one time recommended vinegar for descaling after it was found to be the culprit in failures of silicone part failure in some of their machines. Believe me, there is no money to be made selling Dezcal. I understand the reasoning but really, our money is made keeping customers of expensive machines happy. And... adding sodium bicarbonate is a bad idea. It's part of the stuff you are trying to remove when descaling!
People who clean with vinegar are archaic cunts who disapprove of scientific advancement in all forms. Our world will never achieve interstellar travel with vinegar cleaning cunts breathing in our precious oxygen.
Lol what do you mean? The possibilities are endless. Here on this shitty earth we all get cancer and die so easily. It's ignorant not to be consumed by the possibilities. Plus vinegar smells like total shit. Worst smell ever. I'd rather smell dead Syrian refugees. That's how bad vinegar smells. The possibility of synthetic lifeforms is the ultimate goal for our species. That's common knowledge. To achieve immortality by becoming something more than human. Something more than human and without vinegar.
Can't take any shit from a Jesus freak. Not even worth the time. Doubting the existence of life in the infinite is just ignorant. And saying that because they can't land here mean they don't exist is also just as ignorant. Why would they want too? Look at us, We have religion and flat earthers. We are not ready. We also make the mistake of using vinegar as a cleaning agent. That alone proves we are not ready.
You do know I'm just trolling right? I honestly just think vinegar smells horrible. No need to go crazy man. Calm down. Smoke a blunt or something. Pick your poison lol. I mean achieving immortality by transferring my mind into a machine is definitely one of my most desired fantasies. I know I will never get that. I'll die of cancer or a heart attack. Probably in my early 40's. I ain't even mad lol.
I have a PhD in Chemistry and own a Keurig 2.0 machine. The primary cause of scale in coffee makers is caused by the mineral salts in most household water supplies which are deposited as scale as the water is pumped into the brewer. I use nothing but distilled water in my coffee maker. Distilled water does not contain any mineral salts in it so there is nothing to create scale. The quality of the coffee produced is excellent and consistant. I use Citric Acid to descale occasionaly. (10 grams/Liter).
Hi John, Thanks for the comment. With your PhD in chem you probably already know this but I'll add for others who may read. Water is a very good solvent. Pure mineral free distilled or RO water is an even better solvent! Brewing with it causes over-extraction and bitter flavors - SCA recommends some minerals in brew water. More info on that here: www.scaa.org/?page=resources&d=water-standards
Citric acid is the active ingredient in many commercially available descaling products. We do not recommend brewing with mineral free water but if you are okay with the flavor then that's your call. I am a little curious why you would descale if using water with no scaling potential? Also know ultra-pure water can have effects on metal boiler components over time. One reason why 0 TDS RO and distilled water are not delivered through or stored in metal.
@@Wholelattelovepage Boom bitch. He didn't reply.
I know this is an old thread but the subject is always actual. This man states that Breville doesn't recommend vinegar but that doesn't appear to be true. This link was copied directly from their site on Jan. 30 2019: www.brevilleusasupport.com/bes840xl/care-and-use/care/periodic-maintenance/ It says in part: TO DECALCIFY:
1.Remove the portafilter.
2.Pour a 50:50 mixture of white vinegar and cold tap water into the water tank. etc
Hi Digi, I've gone over this in previous comments in regards to Breville machines. In a direct conversation at the Specialty Coffee Association show nearly 2 years ago I was told by Breville they no longer recommend descaling their machines with vinegar. That original recommendation was a mistake in some of their manuals based on the writer of said manual pulling info on descaling from other Breville products like glass coffee pots.
Youre not supposed to use straight vinegar... you have to dilute it. Pus you should use white vinegar
First of all dont use vinegar on aluminium!!!
adorinadorin what you said!
Depends on the concentration. Original tablets are citric acid and can be just as bad for aluminium if you use too much or too little water.
I see more and more videos of brand ambassadors advising only to use filters and NOT descaling. Why is that?
Hi Cedric., Thanks for the question. A few reasons depending on situation and machine/product. For dual boiler espresso machines descaling is difficult and risky for the majority of home users. Difficult to properly drain boilers and risky in that neglected machines may clog with scale deposits during descaling. For DB machines it's best to treat/filter source water to a mineral balance which does not cause scale in the first place yet provides enough minerals for good flavor. Super-automatic machines made by Jura have in-reservoir filters which if used properly totally eliminate the need to descale. Jura tries to make their machines as convenient as possible to maintain.
Marc
You're supposed to use plain white vinegar, 5% acidity and let it sit for an hour, not 10 minutes. My Mr. Coffee machine and my Hamilton Beach urn reccommend it. Hamilton Beach even has a tutorial on UA-cam how to do it. This is advert
Hi BG, Thanks for the comment. This video is about descaling espresso machines with boilers. A different animal than Mr. Coffee etc with thermoblock heaters.
1/ You showed a Thermocoil and called it a Thermoblock. 2/ Breville use Thermocoil and recommend white vinegar. 3/ How is $2.20 approx 10c more than $1.99?
Hi Dale, Thanks for the comment. Thermocoil and block get used interchangeably. Breville no longer recommends using vinegar after many machine failures in hard water areas where users where descaling with vinegar. Breville was the only manufacturer recommending vinegar. I asked them why at SCAA a few months ago and they said it was a carry over recommendation from other products like teapots etc - products that did not have boilers. I'll be clear... Breville no longer recommends using vinegar to descale their espresso machines.
Right, it's 2 dimes. Plus you only used 1/2 bottle of vinegar
It is white wine vinegar you use to descale no the stuff you used.
Citric acid is preferred much better descaler than vinegar and no flavor taints. Also cheaper in bulk.
Sponsored by descal?
Lol - no. Sponsored by citric acid!
Marc
If you reply i will cry
Why would you cry?
I buy a whole gallon on white vinegar for $1.00, I guess you live in California.
Hi E-GB, Great price! I'm In NY.
Marc
Use white vinegar
Still smells
white vinegar, not apple!
Still going to leave a vinegar taste and not as effective as citric acid as descaler
He first used straight vinegar!! Not supposed to use just straight vinegar, and not to mention he used apple cider vinegar supposed to used just regular distilled vinegar.
Hey TR, Don't use any type of vinegar.
try adding arm&hammer to white vinegar. put baking soda in first.
Hi Robert, Why baking soda? Wouldn't it neutralize the acid? Don't think that's a good idea unless you're making grade school volcano.
apple cider...
Wrong vinegar! you should be using white.
Debt collecting1
Very poor test - why would you use apple cider vinegar? might as well use balsamic or red wine vinegar. You should be using distilled cleaning vinegar.
Hi J, Vinegar still smells bad and is a poor descaler (weak acid) compared to the citric acid used in most commercially available descaling products. Citric acid is tasteless and odorless.
BS, use the white 5% vinegar!
Well, I've covered this many times in the comments on this video. One more time... scale is like a sponge. It will pickup the vinegar odor - a big problem in machines with lot's of scale buildup. Acetic acid/vinegar can cause problems with seals in some machines.
Shill? White vinegar!
The cleaners are filled with chemicals!
It rather depends on how you define chemicals. Vinegar is acetic acid, vast majority of descaling products are citric acid. Both are "chemicals" both are food safe - safe for human consumption in normal concentrations. As mentioned many times in comments there are no espresso machine manufacturers which recommend descaling their machines with vinegar/acetic acid. Breville, a maker of many types of coffee makers and espresso machines used to recommend vinegar for a few of their machines. They recently changed that recommendation after discovering acetic acid caused problems with silicone seals in some of their products.
@@Wholelattelovepage Ok, silicone. Is that a type of plastic?
Sure vinegar stinks. Then...it goes AWAY! There’s no profit in vinegar, so... Well, you know!
Hi R, Thanks for the comment. I've commented on this many time before, but the acetic acid in vinegar does not play well with seals in some espresso machines. Just ask Breville about this. They had a huge problem with some of their machines in hard water areas of the UK where user were descaling with vinegar. At the time, Breville was the one and only manufacturer I'm aware of that recommended using vinegar to descale. Breville told me their recommendation was an oversight when manual was written. The information was based on their use of vinegar for descaling other products like glass teapots. Breville no longer recommends using vinegar for descaling their espresso machines. Another problem with vinegar happens in neglected machines with excessive scale deposits. Scale is rather spongy. Put vinegar in a machine with excessive deposits and the scale soaks up the vinegar and it's very difficult to get rid of. Look I understand the comment/suspicion there's a profit motive but there is not. First, plain citric acid descalers like Urnez Dezcal powder cost about the same as vinegar. Second, Our motivation is in helping people maintain their machines - theirs very little profit in descaling products.
32 oz vs 16 oz. this is silly... not 10 cents do your math... IF at 16 oz is 1.10 then an equal amount for your 32 oz vinegar would be 2.20. Which means... it is 1.20 more... which is more than DOUBLE. bad magician.
1.99/2=1.00 for 16oz vinegar vs. 1.10 for 16oz dezcal.