I watched this video and purchased the backbone. I installed velcro on the bottom of the kayak and on the backbone pipe to make it easier to install the backbone in the center. This ensures that the backbone position does not change when other components are installed after the backbone is installed. The effect of attaching the backbone is great! I could feel the improvement of speed and straightness!
Thank you for your excellent video on the backbone vs drop stitch floor options for the Advanced Elements Sport kayak. Helped me out a great deal. I found that the backbone improved my experience with this kayak 100%, literally; I estimate that I'm can move this through the water with half the effort now.
I realize this is several years later from making the video, but thank you. I have watched several of yours. I went out for the first time today with my set-up using the backbone. The floor was inflated, but the backbone was well - let's just say, I need a pad on top of it. The kayak handled very well and I am thankful the company recommended this model over the one I wanted to get for many reasons.
Thanks, I agree the backbone also hurts the butt bone😂😅 I have since converted all my AE yaks to the drop stitch floors. I like the additional rigidity. Thanks for watching and your support.
thanks for this product review. I have just bought this model of kayak - haven't picked it up yet, waiting for delivery - I think the back bone is going to be the next purchase. thanks very much!
thumperpaul That place is always like that it’s a small river called crooked River and it is always a blast to paddle that. Thank you for watching and thanks for the kudos.
Thank you kind sir, for the informative video and for prompting an excellent discussion! Answered exactly the questions I had in mind. Looking at a 1012 model. Cheers!
You are welcome sir. Also take a look at the AE1044DSXL. That is only sold through AirKayaks.com. The The 1044 is modified 1012 5” longer. I love mine.
I'm going to purchase an AE kayak to keep in my motor home here in New Zealand and finding your channel Mr D has been the best thing. There are so many choices and difficult decisions in choosing which kayak, dropstitch vs backbone etc etc. I'm going to be watching your vids all night to make my choice much easier. Love the clear and precise reviews, new sub here.
Xtreme 3 minute Videos Thank you for your comments. Maybe I can help with part of your decision making. I have converted all AE’s to the dropstich floor. When I started I used the backbone system but found the dropstich floor to be better for rigidity, but gave up a little speed. With the dropstich the setup time is faster by about three minutes. In my Convertible it made a huge difference. When I got my Expedition Elite (comes with dropstich) was when I was introduced to that floor and I was sold. All 6 of my AE’s now have dropstich floors. Hope that helped a little. Thanks for watching.
@@DaleMrDSimmons Thanks very much Dale, you're speaking from experience so I will definitely go with the drop stitch floor. I think I'm also going to go with the one in your video my Favorite AE kayak, Much appreciated, Greg
@@DaleMrDSimmons I'm 6 feet and 175 pounds. I was wondering if there is enough leg room. Here in NZ they sell a 15 ft model which can be a 2 seater or 1 seat attached in the middle. I wondered if this is a good option? It looks easier to get into. It's called the convertible Elite
I have the convertible tandem and the expedition elite. The convertible is a lot of boat to paddle. Reason I asked before. Look at the AE1044DSXL. That has taken over as my favorite. You will see me in that one a lot in my later videos. It comes with the DS and pump. The XL means extra length. It is the same as the Sport and standard Advanced Frame but they made it 5” longer. Give taller people more room and it tracks like a dream. Here check this out ua-cam.com/video/3ZEI0k0HNAY/v-deo.html
Thanks for the nice analytical review. Interesting to see that the backbone is faster. One important thing you did not mention is that with the backbone you sit lower so that in rough water you are much more stable. This is why folding kayaks are generally superior to inflatable kayaks in rough conditions (apart from the fact that it’s difficult to buy a narrow inflatable kayak apart from the shortish new fusion Evo)
Now in Germanythere for the advanced elements there is a new dropstichfloor with an inflatable backbone incorporated. Seems to work fine. Floor is rockhard and gives much form stability to the boat.
Thank you for your channel. It's help me decide to follow Advanced Elements. I really like their products. I finally purchased a the convertible with a backbone. before the July 4th weekend. They were on sale @ REI at the time and couldn't pass up the 20% savings. Too bad that the drop stitch and the backbone can't be used together. Maybe at some point, Advanced elements will develop a drop stitch floor to work with the backbone. That woudl be awesome.
Congrats on your purchase you will be more than happy. The Convertible is huge and the DS floor will make this heavy yak more ridged and easier to paddle. Thanks I’m glad I could help.
Seems to me that the company should have used their sense, and installed pockets that the backbone slides into. On one side, one of the pockets can have a velcro opening since the backboce cannot bend to slide into the pocket. Even better is a built in backbone which makes even more sense.
tranquility I agree with most of your statement. Having the backbone built in to the kayak would hinder greatly it's intended portability. The backbone is an option as the kayak operates well without it. The backbone adds more speed and improves tracking ability if one requires it. Thank you for your comments.
Thanks for the vids! They are timely. I am trying to decide what model and brand to purchase and your vids are perfect. Question: I know you are not supposed to use the backbone and DS in conjunction, but why not? Have you tried it? It’d be nice to see it. Theoretically, you’d get width rigidity AND length strength plus a well defined V Hull. If you could just try it out and let us know if it works, that’d be appreciated! Thanks man! Keep up the good work!
Shawn Ciotti firstly thanks for watching my video. And to answer your question with the drop stitch floor installed the skin of the hull of the boat is extremely tight I feel adding the dog bone with the drop stitch floor Could cause structural damage to the boat. So I won’t try that because remember you’re dealing with an inflatable and if the manufacturer has stated not to use both there’s obviously a reason. My recommendation is to call advanced elements and ask them this question. I appreciate you watching my vids. I have learned over the past two years that not following the manufacturers recommendations can and will get you into trouble with inflatable‘s. The advanced elements sport is an exceptional boat with or without the dog bone and the stock floor but the drop stitch floor adds so much more rigidity and additional comfort. I own 7 kayaks, 5 inflatable‘s and 2 hard kayaks and the sport is my go to kayak for just a day of fun kayaking it’s fast nimble and light
Thanks, I appreciate the great comparison as well as the tip to mark off the backbone when it's installed properly. Great stuff! That phone stand (maybe a mount?) looks great. Which one are you using there, or do you have a recommendation on one?
Can you do another test with and without the backbone? Due to your reviews I'm seriously considering the Advanced Elements Sport Kayak. But I don't know if the backbone is really worth it for me. I realize that it is improved tracking and speed. But how much of an improvement would be good to know. Also, is the skeg removable on the Advanced Elements Sport or is it fixed?
Treasure Pirate I recently picked up another sport for my sister. It was a used kayak but I could not turn down this deal. Anyway, this one had just the stock floor so I tried it out without the backbone. It performed well just not as maneuverable as with the backbone nor as rigid as with the dropstitch floor. But it did well.
Mr D...I just bought a AE Advanced frame kayak...my first IK (i get it in January) and you have answered so many questions I've had already! Thank you so much your videos, are very detailed and easy to watch. Subscribed! Quick question. What kind of life jacket do you prefer, I hate the bulkiness of them and as a photographer, I bet u have good advice in regards to a good one thats easy to move in. Thanks again!
Congrats on your new yak and thank you for all the kudos. Yes, having the right PFD is important and let me tell you i went through many. So I made a video on PFD’s ua-cam.com/video/qfU-fUafuss/v-deo.html I prefer the Onyx 24 delux
Do you feel it's relatively easy to convert between the two? I'm definitely leaning towards purchasing the convertible because I have a young daughter who will probably be onboard with me at least part of the time. I figured when she is in and stability is at a premium, DS floor makes sense. When it is just me, I'd like to use the standard floor, the backbone, and the rudder to help add extra rigidity and steering. I've also heard some folks have used both at the same time, but I know AE frowns on that.
Matty Sarro To be honest I would recommend the DS over the Backbone overall. I have both DS and the backbones and I now never use the backbones anymore. They just sit on a shelf in my garage. I find it way easier with the DS. I never have to pull out the floor to install the backbone on location and I really love the rigidity I get from the DS. Especially on the Convertible as that boat is huge. Performance with the DS vs the backbone is almost nothing. Also if you are going with the rudder kit the backbone becomes a moot point and a waste of money. Finally, I would never combine both as it could stretch out the hull permanently. There’s my 2 cents. Thank you for watching.
Great review Dale!! I recently bought the 2 place version of this kayak along with the backbone, so you're made me feel good about that!😁 Just curious, have you tried the backbone WITH the drop stitch floor? I'm thinking better tracking and paddling efficiently AND additional comfort?? Or just overkill?😆 Thanks again!
Raul Odin I have been asked that many times. The backbone and the dropstich will not work together. I did however change out all my AE’s to dropstich floors. Congrats on your yak.
It will not work. The Dropstich flattens out the bottom and the backbone adds a v-shape to the hull. Getting the concave ends to mount would be almost impossible to mount. The difference in performance from the backbone to the dropstich is negligible. You will find the dropstich more comfortable and way easier to get in and out. Thank you
Dale, is there a reason you couldn't use the backbone and the drop stitch? We are in the market for the advanced elements advanced frame sport. Thanks for taking the time to do these videos. They are really helpful.
MMC SS I have been asked this many times. The answer is no as the spoon of the backbone will not sit correctly on the main chambers with the dropstich installed. Also using both would disfigure the bottom. With the dropstitch you kind of get a cathedral type hull. With the backbone more of a v-hull. In the past with this question, I contacted the manufacturer and they stated not to mix. Some people use a pool noodle but I also would not recommend it. I have converted all 6 of my AE kayaks to dropstich floors I enjoy the rigidity and comfort more than the backbone. Hope that helps.
Very nice series of videos. Well done. Silly question - could one use the backbone and drop stitch floor together ? Better tracking, speed, stability and comfort ? Or would it make things worse ? Thanks.
bombousboy currently in the US there is no way to do that. I hear in Europe they have devised a DS floor with inflatable backbone. I don't know how true that is. So as far as I know you cannot combine DS and backbone. Thank you for the kudos. Have a great day.
Apparently YT doesnt want me to share this link so here is the text for the "airbone" video. I dont think it would be as sturdy as the solid backbone, but thats just by looking at it. Airframe new AirBone AE1012-DE DS Kayak. Thank you for all the great videos Mr Simmons.
have your ever tried both the drop stitch with the back bone at the same time? i just got a convertible with the drop stitch and found it gets blown around in the wind, and was thinking the back bone might help. but haven't seen much on the use of both together.
C Stella I get this question a lot. Due to the design of the backbone and how it mounts one cannot combine both. Some in Europe have a sleeved system where they insert like a pool noodle but that also does not work as the DS floor’s pressure against the bottom of the kayak material would not allow for this additional object. As far as the wind goes all kayaks regardless be they hard or inflatable do get pushed around in the wind. The bigger the yak the more wind effects it. Hope that helps. Thanks for watching.
Can you use the DS floor and the backbone at the same time? It seems that the standard floor with its tubes is better to accomodate the backbone, but could you not use it with the DS?
Michael Marshall no you cannot use both. Not designed to accommodate both. The spoon of the backbone which sets underneath the main chamber will not allow the DS and vice versa. Thanks for watching.
Have you tried placing a pool noodle under the dropstich floor? Watching the video of the German Airbone floor, all it is is a pocket that an inflatable tube goes into under the floor. But in the video, he uses a foam noodle instead. It gives it a sold floor but also a v-hull. And if you look at the German AE site, I notice that the DS floor is now backbone friendly.
Mark Newman yes I’m aware of this modification in Europe. It’s currently to my knowledge not available in the USA. I did contact AE on this and they stated they were not aware of this. I think it could cause permanent disfiguring to the hull if used continually. But just my opinion. But it’s a cool idea. I no longer use backbones in any of my AE kayaks all are now DS floors. Thanks for watching.
Hey @@DaleMrDSimmons , I have seen this comment about you no longer using the backbone. Could I ask why you have opted to use the dropstitch floor over the backbone. I can see it is easier to use but I would like to know your reasons. I am considering getting the drop stitch floor. Many Thanks.
tanyar9 Hi, yes I stopped using the backbones in all my kayaks and have adopted the DS floors. Purely for ease of use and setups. I notice no real discernible difference in performance or tracking and adds over all rigidity to the kayaks. I hope that answers your question. Thanks for watching
Stone859 I have had many inquiries about this. I contacted AE and talked with the Design Engineer and the say no and don’t recommend it. Something to do with the spoon of the backbone digging into the DS could cause failure of the floor. Also, the DS contorts the lower skin, as you can see, if you also add the Backbone with the DS you would further contort the lower skin beyond its MFG limits. Hope that answers your question. Thank you for watching.
I'm looking to get an Advanced Frame Expedition. It's either going to be the older model with the standard (lilo) floor or the newer Expedition Elite with the drop stitch floor. You've said that the drop stitch floor is more comfortable than the back bone but I can't find any comments comparing the older standard floor and the newer (harder) drop stitch floor. On a performance level I'd definitely prefer the stiffer floor but I'm wondering if you can comment on how comfortable it is sitting on the stiff drop stitch floor for long periods of time compared to the older standard (lilo) design. Also does the seat itself provide any padding?
Endurance Swimmer Australia the only comparison I can give you is a standard floor in the sport vs the drop-stitch. Without the backbone the floor is comfortable but a bit too soft for me. With the dogbone it adds more rigidly but I really prefer the DS floor. I have no experience with the older expedition however I do own the convertible with standard floor with dogbone that’s only 1foot longer than the expedition and I have paddled it with the solo setup and it was comfortable with the stock floor. I prefer the drop stitch floors in all my AE inflatables. As far as the seat it is comfortable with about 3/4” seat pad even with I long paddle. I have on occasion have a numb butt on a long paddle but with a short break that goes away. Normally a five or six mile paddle, no breaks, is fine and comfortable. Personally I would recommend the XE over the older model. I hope this helps.
Thanks. I'm actually wondering whether we may be better getting the sport. I note that it's your favorite inflatable kayak. What I'm looking for is a comfortable kayak for my partner to use in remote locations to accompany me swimming. How does the sport compare gm performance alongside the expedition?
Endurance Swimmer Australia for this purpose I would definitely recommend the sport. Quick, nimble and easy to use. Moves easily through the water. Trust me I have run mine through some very tough areas here in Florida and it has never failed me. I just got a second sport yesterday for my sister as she was always stealing mine when we planned an outing. She likes it with the backbone where I like mine with the drop stitch. So now we have harmony in the family. Lol please let me know your decision which one you go with. Also if you do reviews for UA-cam I would like to see it in action there in Australia which ever AE you get. Thank for watching.
Thanks for getting back to me. I didn't do a good job with my initial question. What I meant to ask was whether the backbone and the drop stitch floor are designed for the same or different purposes. Are they both used to help the inflatable gain rigidity and speed, and one just happens to be faster and one more comfortable, or do they each have slightly different primary purposes? Again, just asking out of curiosity. I'm not really very familiar with kayaking, other than I have a couple of Hobie fishing kayaks that I peddle around a local lake.
I like your review, but have a few questions... Seems form your review, the Back Bone (BB) was faster and better tracking than the Drop Stitch Floor (DSF). But you also said the DSF is more comfortable. What does that mean? I do want btter performance so which shoud i get? BB?... Also in your opinion how does the Advance Element inflatable compare to a normal hard shell kayak (speed tracking?)
The backbone with a stock seat is somewhat uncomfortable as you can feel the BB on your bum. If you’re looking for speed and performance take a look at the EVO. Comparing a hard yak to an AE is difficult as many hard kayaks have many different hull styles. A cathedral hull is very slow but very stable, a V hull is a lot faster but less stable for examples. An inflatable gives you portability and some great tracking. The AdvancedFrame line are pretty much flat bottom but with the forward and aft aluminum frames makes their tracking very good. I guess it’s what you’re looking for.
Hi, I’ve narrowed down my kayak search to either the Air Kayaks MakoDS lightweight kayak or the Air Kayaks Advanced Elements advanced frame sport DS kayak. I’ve watched some of your videos on the regular AE sport kayak and the mako. I’m having a hard time deciding between the two. What are your thoughts?
I just purchased the ADVANCEDFRAME® KAYAK: AE1012 and while I'm mostly happy with it, I'm wondering which I should add to increase speed in the water: the backbone or drop-stitch floor? New to kayaking and while I didn't expect an inflatable to slice through the water like a hard shell, I had hoped it would be sleeker than it is. Recommendations? Please and thanks!
Valerie Gaffney the backbone will improve speed and tracking but will add a little more setup time. I used the backbone for a season then got a DS floor I lost about a mile per hour but I now prefer the DS floor over the backbone. Thanks for watching
Keith Locke simply rigidity and setup. I have converted all my Advanced Elements Kayaks to DSF over the back bone. I don’t loose that much speed but gain more comfort and overall rigidly. The DSF you can just leave deflated in the kayak so setup is much faster and easier. Hope that answers your questions. Thanks for watching.
Mr D. I'm thinking to purchase an Itwit Tridoard as it's the only decent inflatable I available in my area. I'm thinking to run a backbone under my dropstitch. Any recommendations ?
Jim McGregor hey Jim, I know with the advanced Elements it is not recommended to combine the backbone and drop stitch as it will contort the lower outer skin and place undue stress on the lower skin construction seams. Looking at that craft with its long fins I also think the backbone would be over kill. Hope that helps.
Do you have the accessories frame installed on any of your kayaks. I have some questions about it. It appears that the recommended installation is different if you have an Advanced Frame type kayak versus the Straight Edge. With the Straight Edge you stick the eyes onto the top whereas with the Advanced Frame you have the rather uncomfortable task of cutting the outer layer on top and stick them through from underneath with the gluing inside. The latter I feel a bit uncomfortable about (taking to my new kayak with a knife) and I'm wondering if you could speak to this? Can you stick it on top for example like the Straight Edge.
Endurance Swimmer Australia I really don’t understand what you’re trying to accomplish. I would not attempt any cutting of the outer skin. What are you trying to do? Are you trying to add d-rings to the kayak? You will see 4, 2 front and 2 aft for tie downs. I guess I just don’t understand your question.
Dale Mr. D Simmons It's a shame I can't copy and paste the instructions to illustrate but suffice it to say installing the frame on the Advanced Frame involves literally cutting the outer layer on the top so that the rectangular outline permits the eye (which holds the frame) to poke through the top and you glue the circular base of the eye so that it sticks from the inside. On the Straight edge it's a different attachment method with no cutting involved but just sticking to the top. From your response I gather you haven't installed the frame on any of yours which probably answers my question.
Endurance Swimmer Australia if you are talking about the bow and stern frames, rectangular aluminum bent frames forward and aft, they should have been already installed. Anyway if not just pull out the entire inner main chamber assembly you will see on each end a black webbed slotted areas top and bottom both forward and aft. Insert your rib frames in these. The larger frame is forward. I hope this is what your talking about.
Okay now I understand what your trying to do. The accessory frame for the angler straightedge. The bent pipe assembly for mounting stuff. No I don’t have these. I really didn’t know they have instructions for installation on the Advanced Frame. If you want to send pics enter my name in FB messenger and send them to me and I can address, I hope your concerns. If not I will contact my peeps at AE and ask them.
hi ive been watching your videos. and i think the expedition model would be great and within budget. Its $900 here in canada. do i really need to buy backbone? its over 100$. i'm confused. why won't they include drop stitch or backbone with the package?. some people complained that the backbone is uncomfortable on long trips.
crosshair the new expedition XE comes with the dropstich floor. The older version does not. If you go for the standard expedition, not the XE then I recommend the backbone. If you get the XE then your problem is solved and no backbone is required. See my video on the Expedition XE. thank you for watching.
thanks dale. i found the xe at local store, $1170canadian, pricey with no pedals. do you think i should just stick with the advancedframe sport and get dropstich for comfort. or ae E XE model would be faster and more comfortable, a better buy for long term use, what do you recommend? . i'm 6' 185lbs.
crosshair being you are 6 ft I would not recommend the sport I'm 5'5" and it fits me well. my friend is 6'2" and with the foot bag removed and the seat all the way back he just fits. the XE with the dropstich, rudder is optional and not really needed, I feel would give you your best performance for your height. but again you could fit in the sport with the seat all the way back but you would not have really any storage.
thanks thats helpful. one more thing. could i use my generic double action pump with expedition. it has boston valve, and someone said i dont need to buy AE's pump, i could use boston valve to pump expedition kayak because the spring valve works fine with boston valve. do i really need to have the gauge on pump, any thoughts?
crosshair I strongly recommend the PSI guage. the PSI ratings are critical on the main Chambers. the dropstich requires 4to 6 PSI I always do 5 PSI. the AE pump is not required but make sure it has a PSI guage.
I am waiting for advanced frame kayak delivery. So this thing comes witouth drop stich floor or backbone ? This boat has no bad reviews anywhere ! Can t wait for delivery...Like your videos
SuperGeert123 it depends what exactly you ordered. Several bundles are offered through AirKayaks.com. The dropstitch floor is the way to go. TheAdvanced Element line are superior kayaks. Thank you.
@@DaleMrDSimmons Thanks, right now, it seems they don t do bundles. I should have it delivered soon. I figured out it comes without dropstich. The link you provided didn t work for me. Error..
SuperGeert123 I just AirKayaks.com and is seems everything in that selection is currently unavailable. Really popular kayak. Yes the basic Sport does not come with the backbone or the DS floor. They would have to be a separate purchase.
It is not recommended. I’ve heard of some doing that. AE states no as it will disfigure the hull. I’ve heard of some people using pool noodles to attain that v-hull shape, but I have tried neither.
Mir Rafay There are no Crocs in central and northern Florida. The crocs are in the Glades. We have gators and they are in all Florida waters. They normally don’t bother you unless its mating season, then its only a defensive action. When I paddle I keep aware of the area and maintain a respectful distance if I see one. It’s all good
Bruce Wayne hey Bruce, make sure when you fill your military spring valve is up. Put your finger on the center valve push down and twist to the right, then let go the spring valve will pop up. When you screw on the spring valve adapter the center of the adapter will depress the center of the spring valve a little allowing you to fill the main chamber. When done just unscrew the adapter and your air will stay in. Hope that answers your question. The same holds true for the DS floor.
Dale, I've watched you unhook the hose from the DS floor several times. When I try, I have to grab it right at the base & most times I end up with a blast of air escaping. No idea what I'm doing wrong :/
Bruce Wayne I assume your spring valve is in the up position? Is it disconnecting from the adapter and the fill hose? Or are you removing the adapter from the spring valve just below the fill hose. What I do is grab the adapter portion of the DS fill adapter with my fingers and twist it off. You will get a short burst of air as the adapter is lifted from the spring valve as the spring valve pops back up and seats itself. If you are taking the adapter off properly the short blast of air will happen, but it’s very fast and very short. You may have a defective valve. If so contact AirKayaks as I assume that’s where you got it? If it’s second hand your DS my be defective and a small shot of silicone lube on the spring valve may fix the problem. Don’t do that if you bought it new as it will void your warranty. Let me know.
I'm pretty sure it is as I was following the directions from both your videos & the video from Airkayak! Yes, brand spanking new. Perhaps I'll have a friend video what I'm doing & upload for your review.
FYI: AE included a sheet with my just purchased backbone giving situations where it "SHOULD NOT be used." They are: 1. Whitewater where the superior tracking with the backbone makes rapid maneuvers difficult. 2. Rivers that have shallow water and submerged hazards that could damage the hull. 3. Rough surf where coming ashore could bend the backbone. 4. Shallow water, oyster beds and reefs where sharp objects could damage the hull. 5. Dragging across land, which is not good anytime but where the stiffness of the backbone could cause even more damage.
Carol James hey Carol, I’m with you as all 4 of my AE inflatables have the dropstich floor. I really enjoy the rigidity and comfort. Thanks for watching.
I watched this video and purchased the backbone. I installed velcro on the bottom of the kayak and on the backbone pipe to make it easier to install the backbone in the center. This ensures that the backbone position does not change when other components are installed after the backbone is installed. The effect of attaching the backbone is great! I could feel the improvement of speed and straightness!
Excellent idea! Since I made that video I have switched out all my backbones to DS Floors for my paddling adventures. Enjoy. Thanks for watching.
Thank you for your excellent video on the backbone vs drop stitch floor options for the Advanced Elements Sport kayak. Helped me out a great deal. I found that the backbone improved my experience with this kayak 100%, literally; I estimate that I'm can move this through the water with half the effort now.
You’re welcome and thanks for watching
I realize this is several years later from making the video, but thank you. I have watched several of yours. I went out for the first time today with my set-up using the backbone. The floor was inflated, but the backbone was well - let's just say, I need a pad on top of it. The kayak handled very well and I am thankful the company recommended this model over the one I wanted to get for many reasons.
Thanks, I agree the backbone also hurts the butt bone😂😅 I have since converted all my AE yaks to the drop stitch floors. I like the additional rigidity. Thanks for watching and your support.
This video and comments really helped me decide whether or not to go with backbone or DS floor. Thank you!!
You’re welcome thanks for watching
thanks for this product review. I have just bought this model of kayak - haven't picked it up yet, waiting for delivery - I think the back bone is going to be the next purchase. thanks very much!
Pete Frost congrats on you selection as it is a very nice yak. You will love it. Thanks for watching
Hi Dale, I did get out twice on lakes already. It is a great kayak, you are absolutely right. And your videos are great too.
Pete Frost I’m glad you are enjoying your new Yak. Have fun with it. Thanks for supporting the channel
Beautiful waterways, looks like a mirror! Thanks for a great review!
thumperpaul That place is always like that it’s a small river called crooked River and it is always a blast to paddle that. Thank you for watching and thanks for the kudos.
Very cool. and lovely scenery.
Thank you. I have the backbone and was thinking about getting the dropstitch. I believe I’ll stick with the backbone after watching your comparison.
Great, that’s why I did it. I prefer the DS floor but I know many who swear by the BB. Thanks for watching.
Thank you kind sir, for the informative video and for prompting an excellent discussion!
Answered exactly the questions I had in mind.
Looking at a 1012 model.
Cheers!
You are welcome sir. Also take a look at the AE1044DSXL. That is only sold through AirKayaks.com. The The 1044 is modified 1012 5” longer. I love mine.
I'm going to purchase an AE kayak to keep in my motor home here in New Zealand and finding your channel Mr D has been the best thing. There are so many choices and difficult decisions in choosing which kayak, dropstitch vs backbone etc etc. I'm going to be watching your vids all night to make my choice much easier. Love the clear and precise reviews, new sub here.
Xtreme 3 minute Videos Thank you for your comments. Maybe I can help with part of your decision making. I have converted all AE’s to the dropstich floor. When I started I used the backbone system but found the dropstich floor to be better for rigidity, but gave up a little speed. With the dropstich the setup time is faster by about three minutes. In my Convertible it made a huge difference. When I got my Expedition Elite (comes with dropstich) was when I was introduced to that floor and I was sold. All 6 of my AE’s now have dropstich floors. Hope that helped a little. Thanks for watching.
@@DaleMrDSimmons Thanks very much Dale, you're speaking from experience so I will definitely go with the drop stitch floor. I think I'm also going to go with the one in your video my Favorite AE kayak, Much appreciated, Greg
Xtreme 3 minute Videos before you make your decision, what is your height and weight?
@@DaleMrDSimmons I'm 6 feet and 175 pounds. I was wondering if there is enough leg room. Here in NZ they sell a 15 ft model which can be a 2 seater or 1 seat attached in the middle. I wondered if this is a good option? It looks easier to get into. It's called the convertible Elite
I have the convertible tandem and the expedition elite. The convertible is a lot of boat to paddle. Reason I asked before. Look at the AE1044DSXL. That has taken over as my favorite. You will see me in that one a lot in my later videos. It comes with the DS and pump. The XL means extra length. It is the same as the Sport and standard Advanced Frame but they made it 5” longer. Give taller people more room and it tracks like a dream. Here check this out ua-cam.com/video/3ZEI0k0HNAY/v-deo.html
Wonderful video. I will be getting a backbone for mine. I want a more steady kayak. Thanks 👍
Well that’s the reason for this comparison is to provide viewers with information to help in their decision making process. Thanks for watching.
Thanks for the nice analytical review. Interesting to see that the backbone is faster. One important thing you did not mention is that with the backbone you sit lower so that in rough water you are much more stable. This is why folding kayaks are generally superior to inflatable kayaks in rough conditions (apart from the fact that it’s difficult to buy a narrow inflatable kayak apart from the shortish new fusion Evo)
Thanks for your insights. Thanks for watching
Now in Germanythere for the advanced elements there is a new dropstichfloor with an inflatable backbone incorporated. Seems to work fine. Floor is rockhard and gives much form stability to the boat.
BBFazer thanks for the info. was not aware.
Which model of AE had the integrated backbone in the DS floor?
It really helped me a lot....thank you for sharing
You bet my friend. Thanks for watching
Thank you for your channel. It's help me decide to follow Advanced Elements. I really like their products. I finally purchased a the convertible with a backbone. before the July 4th weekend. They were on sale @ REI at the time and couldn't pass up the 20% savings. Too bad that the drop stitch and the backbone can't be used together. Maybe at some point, Advanced elements will develop a drop stitch floor to work with the backbone. That woudl be awesome.
Congrats on your purchase you will be more than happy. The Convertible is huge and the DS floor will make this heavy yak more ridged and easier to paddle. Thanks I’m glad I could help.
Seems to me that the company should have used their sense, and installed pockets that the backbone slides into. On one side, one of the pockets can have a velcro opening since the backboce cannot bend to slide into the pocket. Even better is a built in backbone which makes even more sense.
tranquility I agree with most of your statement. Having the backbone built in to the kayak would hinder greatly it's intended portability. The backbone is an option as the kayak operates well without it. The backbone adds more speed and improves tracking ability if one requires it. Thank you for your comments.
Thanks this was helpful.
Glad it was helpful.
Great Review- 5 out of 5
Great Review - Thank You!
Thanks for the vids! They are timely. I am trying to decide what model and brand to purchase and your vids are perfect. Question: I know you are not supposed to use the backbone and DS in conjunction, but why not? Have you tried it? It’d be nice to see it. Theoretically, you’d get width rigidity AND length strength plus a well defined V Hull. If you could just try it out and let us know if it works, that’d be appreciated!
Thanks man! Keep up the good work!
Shawn Ciotti firstly thanks for watching my video. And to answer your question with the drop stitch floor installed the skin of the hull of the boat is extremely tight I feel adding the dog bone with the drop stitch floor Could cause structural damage to the boat. So I won’t try that because remember you’re dealing with an inflatable and if the manufacturer has stated not to use both there’s obviously a reason. My recommendation is to call advanced elements and ask them this question. I appreciate you watching my vids. I have learned over the past two years that not following the manufacturers recommendations can and will get you into trouble with inflatable‘s. The advanced elements sport is an exceptional boat with or without the dog bone and the stock floor but the drop stitch floor adds so much more rigidity and additional comfort. I own 7 kayaks, 5 inflatable‘s and 2 hard kayaks and the sport is my go to kayak for just a day of fun kayaking it’s fast nimble and light
Thanks, I appreciate the great comparison as well as the tip to mark off the backbone when it's installed properly. Great stuff!
That phone stand (maybe a mount?) looks great. Which one are you using there, or do you have a recommendation on one?
I wish I could have seen the actual drop stitch. I don't actually know what it is. But overall interesting video.
Can you do another test with and without the backbone? Due to your reviews I'm seriously considering the Advanced Elements Sport Kayak. But I don't know if the backbone is really worth it for me. I realize that it is improved tracking and speed. But how much of an improvement would be good to know.
Also, is the skeg removable on the Advanced Elements Sport or is it fixed?
Treasure Pirate I recently picked up another sport for my sister. It was a used kayak but I could not turn down this deal. Anyway, this one had just the stock floor so I tried it out without the backbone. It performed well just not as maneuverable as with the backbone nor as rigid as with the dropstitch floor. But it did well.
Great review and thanks for going to the lengths of comparing the two. One question, how do they affect the stability of the kayak?
Paul Blythe Thank you and the dropstich is more stable thank you for watching.
Is it possible (or advisable) to use the drop stitch floor at the same time as the backbone for added rigidity and better tracking on choppier waters?
illiniLB no I'm sorry it will not work.
Mr D...I just bought a AE Advanced frame kayak...my first IK (i get it in January) and you have answered so many questions I've had already! Thank you so much your videos, are very detailed and easy to watch. Subscribed! Quick question. What kind of life jacket do you prefer, I hate the bulkiness of them and as a photographer, I bet u have good advice in regards to a good one thats easy to move in. Thanks again!
Congrats on your new yak and thank you for all the kudos. Yes, having the right PFD is important and let me tell you i went through many. So I made a video on PFD’s ua-cam.com/video/qfU-fUafuss/v-deo.html
I prefer the Onyx 24 delux
Do you feel it's relatively easy to convert between the two? I'm definitely leaning towards purchasing the convertible because I have a young daughter who will probably be onboard with me at least part of the time. I figured when she is in and stability is at a premium, DS floor makes sense. When it is just me, I'd like to use the standard floor, the backbone, and the rudder to help add extra rigidity and steering. I've also heard some folks have used both at the same time, but I know AE frowns on that.
Matty Sarro To be honest I would recommend the DS over the Backbone overall. I have both DS and the backbones and I now never use the backbones anymore. They just sit on a shelf in my garage. I find it way easier with the DS. I never have to pull out the floor to install the backbone on location and I really love the rigidity I get from the DS. Especially on the Convertible as that boat is huge. Performance with the DS vs the backbone is almost nothing. Also if you are going with the rudder kit the backbone becomes a moot point and a waste of money. Finally, I would never combine both as it could stretch out the hull permanently. There’s my 2 cents. Thank you for watching.
Thank you so much for all of your advice, and all of the work you've put into your videos. You've helped me learn a lot!
Great review Dale!! I recently bought the 2 place version of this kayak along with the backbone, so you're made me feel good about that!😁 Just curious, have you tried the backbone WITH the drop stitch floor? I'm thinking better tracking and paddling efficiently AND additional comfort?? Or just overkill?😆
Thanks again!
Raul Odin I have been asked that many times. The backbone and
the dropstich will not work together. I did however change out all my AE’s to dropstich floors. Congrats on your yak.
Thanks Dale, and love your channel! Stay healthy sir! ✌😊
Hi and thanks for the great video.
Is there any problem for both of them backbone+dropstich to be used together and having the best of both worlds?
It will not work. The Dropstich flattens out the bottom and the backbone adds a v-shape to the hull. Getting the concave ends to mount would be almost impossible to mount. The difference in performance from the backbone to the dropstich is negligible. You will find the dropstich more comfortable and way easier to get in and out. Thank you
Dale Mr. D Simmons
Dale, is there a reason you couldn't use the backbone and the drop stitch? We are in the market for the advanced elements advanced frame sport. Thanks for taking the time to do these videos. They are really helpful.
MMC SS I have been asked this many times. The answer is no as the spoon of the backbone will not sit correctly on the main chambers with the dropstich installed. Also using both would disfigure the bottom. With the dropstitch you kind of get a cathedral type hull. With the backbone more of a v-hull. In the past with this question, I contacted the manufacturer and they stated not to mix. Some people use a pool noodle but I also would not recommend it. I have converted all 6 of my AE kayaks to dropstich floors I enjoy the rigidity and comfort more than the backbone. Hope that helps.
Very nice series of videos. Well done. Silly question - could one use the backbone and drop stitch floor together ? Better tracking, speed, stability and comfort ? Or would it make things worse ? Thanks.
bombousboy currently in the US there is no way to do that. I hear in Europe they have devised a DS floor with inflatable backbone. I don't know how true that is. So as far as I know you cannot combine DS and backbone. Thank you for the kudos. Have a great day.
this is definitely true - here in Germany, we can order a combined DS plus BB (www.advancedelements.de)
releseig I can't find it. That website is down
Apparently YT doesnt want me to share this link so here is the text for the "airbone" video. I dont think it would be as sturdy as the solid backbone, but thats just by looking at it.
Airframe new AirBone AE1012-DE DS Kayak.
Thank you for all the great videos Mr Simmons.
have your ever tried both the drop stitch with the back bone at the same time? i just got a convertible with the drop stitch and found it gets blown around in the wind, and was thinking the back bone might help. but haven't seen much on the use of both together.
C Stella I get this question a lot. Due to the design of the backbone and how it mounts one cannot combine both. Some in Europe have a sleeved system where they insert like a pool noodle but that also does not work as the DS floor’s pressure against the bottom of the kayak material would not allow for this additional object. As far as the wind goes all kayaks regardless be they hard or inflatable do get pushed around in the wind. The bigger the yak the more wind effects it. Hope that helps. Thanks for watching.
Can you use the DS floor and the backbone at the same time? It seems that the standard floor with its tubes is better to accomodate the backbone, but could you not use it with the DS?
Michael Marshall no you cannot use both. Not designed to accommodate both. The spoon of the backbone which sets underneath the main chamber will not allow the DS and vice versa. Thanks for watching.
Have you tried placing a pool noodle under the dropstich floor? Watching the video of the German Airbone floor, all it is is a pocket that an inflatable tube goes into under the floor. But in the video, he uses a foam noodle instead. It gives it a sold floor but also a v-hull. And if you look at the German AE site, I notice that the DS floor is now backbone friendly.
Mark Newman yes I’m aware of this modification in Europe. It’s currently to my knowledge not available in the USA. I did contact AE on this and they stated they were not aware of this. I think it could cause permanent disfiguring to the hull if used continually. But just my opinion. But it’s a cool idea. I no longer use backbones in any of my AE kayaks all are now DS floors. Thanks for watching.
Hey @@DaleMrDSimmons , I have seen this comment about you no longer using the backbone. Could I ask why you have opted to use the dropstitch floor over the backbone. I can see it is easier to use but I would like to know your reasons. I am considering getting the drop stitch floor. Many Thanks.
tanyar9 Hi, yes I stopped using the backbones in all my kayaks and have adopted the DS floors. Purely for ease of use and setups. I notice no real discernible difference in performance or tracking and adds over all rigidity to the kayaks. I hope that answers your question. Thanks for watching
Do you know when AE is going to incorporate the airbone in the US versions under the DS?
We have an Advanced Elements Convertable and may question is: Can you use the backbone and the drop stitched floor at the same time?
Stone859 I have had many inquiries about this. I contacted AE and talked with the Design Engineer and the say no and don’t recommend it. Something to do with the spoon of the backbone digging into the DS could cause failure of the floor. Also, the DS contorts the lower skin, as you can see, if you also add the Backbone with the DS you would further contort the lower skin beyond its MFG limits. Hope that answers your question. Thank you for watching.
Hey Mr D! What is the advantage of a dropstich floor? Does it make it more durable? Or is it just a way to better tracking? Thanks!
Makes the yak more rigid which improves its tracking.
I'm looking to get an Advanced Frame Expedition. It's either going to be the older model with the standard (lilo) floor or the newer Expedition Elite with the drop stitch floor. You've said that the drop stitch floor is more comfortable than the back bone but I can't find any comments comparing the older standard floor and the newer (harder) drop stitch floor. On a performance level I'd definitely prefer the stiffer floor but I'm wondering if you can comment on how comfortable it is sitting on the stiff drop stitch floor for long periods of time compared to the older standard (lilo) design. Also does the seat itself provide any padding?
Endurance Swimmer Australia the only comparison I can give you is a standard floor in the sport vs the drop-stitch. Without the backbone the floor is comfortable but a bit too soft for me. With the dogbone it adds more rigidly but I really prefer the DS floor. I have no experience with the older expedition however I do own the convertible with standard floor with dogbone that’s only 1foot longer than the expedition and I have paddled it with the solo setup and it was comfortable with the stock floor. I prefer the drop stitch floors in all my AE inflatables. As far as the seat it is comfortable with about 3/4” seat pad even with I long paddle. I have on occasion have a numb butt on a long paddle but with a short break that goes away. Normally a five or six mile paddle, no breaks, is fine and comfortable. Personally I would recommend the XE over the older model. I hope this helps.
Thanks. I'm actually wondering whether we may be better getting the sport. I note that it's your favorite inflatable kayak. What I'm looking for is a comfortable kayak for my partner to use in remote locations to accompany me swimming. How does the sport compare gm performance alongside the expedition?
Endurance Swimmer Australia for this purpose I would definitely recommend the sport. Quick, nimble and easy to use. Moves easily through the water. Trust me I have run mine through some very tough areas here in Florida and it has never failed me. I just got a second sport yesterday for my sister as she was always stealing mine when we planned an outing. She likes it with the backbone where I like mine with the drop stitch. So now we have harmony in the family. Lol
please let me know your decision which one you go with. Also if you do reviews for UA-cam I would like to see it in action there in Australia which ever AE you get. Thank for watching.
Have you tried wearing a spray deck with any of the Advanced Elements inflatable kayaks rather than leaving the cockpit open?
Thanks! Just out of curiosity, are each of these products designed for specific paddling environments?
Mostly for receational paddle. However the Straitedge is rated for class 3 the others are for rated for class 2.
Thanks for getting back to me. I didn't do a good job with my initial question. What I meant to ask was whether the backbone and the drop stitch floor are designed for the same or different purposes. Are they both used to help the inflatable gain rigidity and speed, and one just happens to be faster and one more comfortable, or do they each have slightly different primary purposes? Again, just asking out of curiosity. I'm not really very familiar with kayaking, other than I have a couple of Hobie fishing kayaks that I peddle around a local lake.
Stonnie Dennis okay no prob, the backbone improves tracking and speed whereas the dropstich improves rigidity, comfort and stability.
I like your review, but have a few questions... Seems form your review, the Back Bone (BB) was faster and better tracking than the Drop Stitch Floor (DSF). But you also said the DSF is more comfortable. What does that mean? I do want btter performance so which shoud i get? BB?... Also in your opinion how does the Advance Element inflatable compare to a normal hard shell kayak (speed tracking?)
The backbone with a stock seat is somewhat uncomfortable as you can feel the BB on your bum. If you’re looking for speed and performance take a look at the EVO. Comparing a hard yak to an AE is difficult as many hard kayaks have many different hull styles. A cathedral hull is very slow but very stable, a V hull is a lot faster but less stable for examples. An inflatable gives you portability and some great tracking. The AdvancedFrame line are pretty much flat bottom but with the forward and aft aluminum frames makes their tracking very good. I guess it’s what you’re looking for.
Hi, I’ve narrowed down my kayak search to either the Air Kayaks MakoDS lightweight kayak or the Air Kayaks Advanced Elements advanced frame sport DS kayak. I’ve watched some of your videos on the regular AE sport kayak and the mako. I’m having a hard time deciding between the two. What are your thoughts?
Definitely the AE DS. Much better craft. Not bagging on the Mako but the AE is the better craft. Hope that helps.
Great review.Thanks.Man I think I still want the drop stitch floor tho.I like to stand in the kayak now and then
Nite Knight ya, since that video I have converted all my AE kayaks to the dropstich. Thanks for watching.
I just purchased the ADVANCEDFRAME® KAYAK: AE1012 and while I'm mostly happy with it, I'm wondering which I should add to increase speed in the water: the backbone or drop-stitch floor? New to kayaking and while I didn't expect an inflatable to slice through the water like a hard shell, I had hoped it would be sleeker than it is. Recommendations? Please and thanks!
Valerie Gaffney the backbone will improve speed and tracking but will add a little more setup time. I used the backbone for a season then got a DS floor I lost about a mile per hour but I now prefer the DS floor over the backbone. Thanks for watching
@@DaleMrDSimmons Why do you prefer the DSF over the BB? Comfort?
Keith Locke simply rigidity and setup. I have converted all my Advanced Elements Kayaks to DSF over the back bone. I don’t loose that much speed but gain more comfort and overall rigidly. The DSF you can just leave deflated in the kayak so setup is much faster and easier. Hope that answers your questions. Thanks for watching.
Mr D. I'm thinking to purchase an Itwit Tridoard as it's the only decent inflatable I available in my area.
I'm thinking to run a backbone under my dropstitch.
Any recommendations ?
Jim McGregor hey Jim, I know with the advanced Elements it is not recommended to combine the backbone and drop stitch as it will contort the lower outer skin and place undue stress on the lower skin construction seams. Looking at that craft with its long fins I also think the backbone would be over kill. Hope that helps.
Ok thanks
Do you have the accessories frame installed on any of your kayaks. I have some questions about it. It appears that the recommended installation is different if you have an Advanced Frame type kayak versus the Straight Edge. With the Straight Edge you stick the eyes onto the top whereas with the Advanced Frame you have the rather uncomfortable task of cutting the outer layer on top and stick them through from underneath with the gluing inside. The latter I feel a bit uncomfortable about (taking to my new kayak with a knife) and I'm wondering if you could speak to this? Can you stick it on top for example like the Straight Edge.
Endurance Swimmer Australia I really don’t understand what you’re trying to accomplish. I would not attempt any cutting of the outer skin. What are you trying to do? Are you trying to add d-rings to the kayak? You will see 4, 2 front and 2 aft for tie downs. I guess I just don’t understand your question.
Dale Mr. D Simmons It's a shame I can't copy and paste the instructions to illustrate but suffice it to say installing the frame on the Advanced Frame involves literally cutting the outer layer on the top so that the rectangular outline permits the eye (which holds the frame) to poke through the top and you glue the circular base of the eye so that it sticks from the inside. On the Straight edge it's a different attachment method with no cutting involved but just sticking to the top. From your response I gather you haven't installed the frame on any of yours which probably answers my question.
Endurance Swimmer Australia if you are talking about the bow and stern frames, rectangular aluminum bent frames forward and aft, they should have been already installed. Anyway if not just pull out the entire inner main chamber assembly you will see on each end a black webbed slotted areas top and bottom both forward and aft. Insert your rib frames in these. The larger frame is forward. I hope this is what your talking about.
Okay now I understand what your trying to do. The accessory frame for the angler straightedge. The bent pipe assembly for mounting stuff. No I don’t have these. I really didn’t know they have instructions for installation on the Advanced Frame. If you want to send pics enter my name in FB messenger and send them to me and I can address, I hope your concerns. If not I will contact my peeps at AE and ask them.
Dale Mr. D Simmons I notice you have a GPS attached. How have you mounted it?
Dale Mr. D Simmons, if I may ask, why do you now prefer the DS floor over the backbone?
Valerie Gaffney the DS for sure.
Valerie Gaffney ease of setup rigidly and ease of use. I kayak approximately 4 to 5 times a week all in different locations.
Is there enough room to install the backbone & the drop stitch floor at the same time together to get the best of both?
No and yes. It is highly not recommended as it will or can affect hull integrity.
Would have been nice if they made the drop-stitched bottom more of a V shape rather than just completely flat.
hi ive been watching your videos. and i think the expedition model would be great and within budget. Its $900 here in canada. do i really need to buy backbone? its over 100$. i'm confused. why won't they include drop stitch or backbone with the package?. some people complained that the backbone is uncomfortable on long trips.
crosshair the new expedition XE comes with the dropstich floor. The older version does not. If you go for the standard expedition, not the XE then I recommend the backbone. If you get the XE then your problem is solved and no backbone is required. See my video on the Expedition XE. thank you for watching.
thanks dale. i found the xe at local store, $1170canadian, pricey with no pedals. do you think i should just stick with the advancedframe sport and get dropstich for comfort. or ae E XE model would be faster and more comfortable, a better buy for long term use, what do you recommend? . i'm 6' 185lbs.
crosshair being you are 6 ft I would not recommend the sport I'm 5'5" and it fits me well. my friend is 6'2" and with the foot bag removed and the seat all the way back he just fits. the XE with the dropstich, rudder is optional and not really needed, I feel would give you your best performance for your height. but again you could fit in the sport with the seat all the way back but you would not have really any storage.
thanks thats helpful.
one more thing. could i use my generic double action pump with expedition. it has boston valve, and someone said i dont need to buy AE's pump, i could use boston valve to pump expedition kayak because the spring valve works fine with boston valve. do i really need to have the gauge on pump, any thoughts?
crosshair I strongly recommend the PSI guage. the PSI ratings are critical on the main Chambers. the dropstich requires 4to 6 PSI I always do 5 PSI. the AE pump is not required but make sure it has a PSI guage.
I am waiting for advanced frame kayak delivery. So this thing comes witouth drop stich floor or backbone ? This boat has no bad reviews anywhere ! Can t wait for delivery...Like your videos
SuperGeert123 it depends what exactly you ordered. Several bundles are offered through AirKayaks.com. The dropstitch floor is the way to go. TheAdvanced Element line are superior kayaks. Thank you.
@@DaleMrDSimmons Thanks, right now, it seems they don t do bundles. I should have it delivered soon. I figured out it comes without dropstich. The link you provided didn t work for me. Error..
SuperGeert123 I just AirKayaks.com and is seems everything in that selection is currently unavailable. Really popular kayak. Yes the basic Sport does not come with the backbone or the DS floor. They would have to be a separate purchase.
Can you use both the backbone and the drop stich at the same time
It is not recommended. I’ve heard of some doing that. AE states no as it will disfigure the hull. I’ve heard of some people using pool noodles to attain that v-hull shape, but I have tried neither.
Can you use the dropstich over the backbone.
No, it will mess with the hull shape. AE recommends no. Thanks for watching
Great video! but that water kept freaking me out though, a mild river like that in florida, how many crocs are in there...
Mir Rafay There are no Crocs in central and northern Florida. The crocs are in the Glades. We have gators and they are in all Florida waters. They normally don’t bother you unless its mating season, then its only a defensive action. When I paddle I keep aware of the area and maintain a respectful distance if I see one. It’s all good
Dale: I have the AE1007 DS, filling the floor isn't a problem but disconnecting without losing all the air you've pumped in is! What's the trick?
Bruce Wayne hey Bruce, make sure when you fill your military spring valve is up. Put your finger on the center valve push down and twist to the right, then let go the spring valve will pop up. When you screw on the spring valve adapter the center of the adapter will depress the center of the spring valve a little allowing you to fill the main chamber. When done just unscrew the adapter and your air will stay in. Hope that answers your question. The same holds true for the DS floor.
Dale: thanks for the quick reply. I thought I was doing that. There doesn't seem to be much to grab onto when it's time to unscrew the adapter :/
Dale, I've watched you unhook the hose from the DS floor several times. When I try, I have to grab it right at the base & most times I end up with a blast of air escaping. No idea what I'm doing wrong :/
Bruce Wayne I assume your spring valve is in the up position? Is it disconnecting from the adapter and the fill hose? Or are you removing the adapter from the spring valve just below the fill hose. What I do is grab the adapter portion of the DS fill adapter with my fingers and twist it off. You will get a short burst of air as the adapter is lifted from the spring valve as the spring valve pops back up and seats itself. If you are taking the adapter off properly the short blast of air will happen, but it’s very fast and very short. You may have a defective valve. If so contact AirKayaks as I assume that’s where you got it? If it’s second hand your DS my be defective and a small shot of silicone lube on the spring valve may fix the problem. Don’t do that if you bought it new as it will void your warranty. Let me know.
I'm pretty sure it is as I was following the directions from both your videos & the video from Airkayak! Yes, brand spanking new. Perhaps I'll have a friend video what I'm doing & upload for your review.
Technical term for "nose wander" is yaw.
I call it "duck-walking"
FYI: AE included a sheet with my just purchased backbone giving situations where it "SHOULD NOT be used." They are:
1. Whitewater where the superior tracking with the backbone makes rapid maneuvers difficult.
2. Rivers that have shallow water and submerged hazards that could damage the hull.
3. Rough surf where coming ashore could bend the backbone.
4. Shallow water, oyster beds and reefs where sharp objects could damage the hull.
5. Dragging across land, which is not good anytime but where the stiffness of the backbone could cause even more damage.
That’s new. But great information. Thanks for watching
I think I'd go with comfort, speed not important...just want to paddle and enjoy the scenery!!!
Carol James hey Carol, I’m with you as all 4 of my AE inflatables have the dropstich floor. I really enjoy the rigidity and comfort. Thanks for watching.