I'm old enough to remember when motherboards and their chipsets could take any socket-compatible x86 CPU from any vendor. Not just Intel and AMD either, but Cyrix and VIA too.
Oh my, I miss those days! So many cool stuff was available back then! Of course we have much more powerful systems now, but I loved the creativity of the inventions back then and I loved the old „gaming“ cases and early watercooling system. I’d love to have a modern build in an Oldschool case. My favorite would be one of the classic Silverstone HTPC (home theater personal computer) cases that looked like parts of an expensive stereo system. The most amazing one is the version with the external water cooler that also looked like a High End Audio component. Unfortunately these cases became unobtainable over the years because they were rare even back then, especially with the extra watercooling case.
Correction: the PLX chip on this motherboard is in fact a switch, not a multiplexer! A switch grants the possibility of using more than one device simultaneously, versus one at a time on a multiplexer. Also: all of the motherboards in the intro were taken from our pile of broken hardware - no PC components were damaged in the filming of this video!
absolutely bought 2x m.2s when I refreshed my setup in 2018 with a 2600x/X470: 256gb 960 pro for boot, 1tb 970 evo for games. I've been looking into bifurcation cards simply because I don't want to keep expanding with 3.5" SSDs, those require 3.5->5.25 adapters to look good and cable managed in my old Cooler Master HAF932 🤣
That sounds backwards. I work in networking (which I think affects my definition). A DWDM (Dense Wave Division Multiplexer), for example, allows for multiple fiber shots of different wavelengths to be muxed onto the same fiber simultaneously. (For example, allowing 64x 100G waves). Whereas a switch allows multiple connected devices to take turns when using a single connection (think single 10Gig uplink with say 24x 1G connected devices). Note: I think you are correct in that it is a switch, I just think the definition sounds wrong.
Indeed, AMD is doing something quite similar with their current gen chipsets. Afaict it's the same basic chip for all of them, but the high end SKUs have two of that chip, giving you twice as much SATA and 8 more PCIe lanes.
I think it's about time we took the lid off the black bios box. I hope you guys and gals can do a video on how they make a bios, and what actually goes into engineering and designing them.
It just isn't that interesting to the average viewer. 60% of making a BIOS is done for you via the UEFI spec. (A massive, very technical document, that even I, as a person who's been doing this for a while, sometimes have difficulty comprehending) The rest is other low-level interface stuff that most people who watch this channel don't have the skill set to understand. It wouldn't be a very good video except for a very specific niche of people (hobby OS developers), who already know all the information in the video.
there was efi developed by intel then improved and created uefi standard which is now being misused by Microsoft specifically secure boot feature which is actually usefull, is being used by MS to bar Dual booting Linux and in general just to make life harder so that everyone only runs windows if they want to have secure firmware .
you are a funny one. making a bios would exceed the knowledge of 99% of this channels views by so much that they wouldnt understand too much about it. and its more or less the same as to making a xmp profile or jedec spec in terms of process and handling. its a bios or reg file with entries like cas to ras latency 0x1h for cas latency of 18 in terms of ram or pure machine language when it comes to things like cpu count and if channel interleaving is allowed are declared by simple 01 or 00 in the block of said command, and the command is defined by the file format language, how that is made is definetly waaaaaay too advanced for ltt.
@@rossharper1983 they may have all been old, and perhaps even dead, it's just the sight of motherboards tumbling around sets off an immediate pain response for me. lol
2:06 Who recorded that footage, I almost got a heart attack. I’m amazed at how UA-camrs can make such long videos based on very basic premises, like this random board that’s the same but with just an extra chip. It’s a cool piece of tech history tho.
@@Eidolon2003 yeah but did you forget that it’s an AMD AM socket? No problem dropping something on it, it’s just a piece of plastic with holes in it. If it would be an LGA socket like Intel (or the new AM5) uses them, it would be something totally different of course.. The pins would likely get hurt then. But since it was the old AMD socket, no sockets where harmed in the making of this film.
@@RYU47376 did you even watch the video dude? It’s not AM5 it’s a super old board that not even worked with Ryzen Gen 3.. Edit: spelling error from my German autocorrect
The PEX8714 that's in that board is in fact a PCIe switch not a multiplexer. It has 12 lanes across 5 ports, which means you can put 3 4x ports downstream on a single x4 upstream port, for instance effectively adding in 2 extra x4 slots. A multiplexer would only let you use one device at a time, while they can work simultaneously on a switch. In my knowledge there are only 2 current gen manufacturers of PCIe switches Broadcom (owner of PLX) and Microchip (bought microsemi) Diodes incorporated also makes some Gen 2 and 3 switches but with lower lane counts compared to the big 2.
Fun thing: Aorus Master is the replacement name for the Aorus Gaming 7. Gaming 7 actually has the old Z370 era design, meanwhile Z390 already dropped the number naming scheme and switched to Elite < (maybe a Pro) < (maybe an Ultra) < Master < Xtreme
Yeah back then a good X470 board was $200-250 and that was considered overkill. My X470 Taichi is still doing work too. If the PCIe switch chip could add another $100+ to the board price that must be some really expensive silicon.
I really do love to see these weird Engineering Samples & Prototypes uploads from LTT, Also the dead Graphics card repair attempt from a while ago was lit!
You could try to add the missing CPU microcodes to the BIOS and it may be able to boot with 3Gen+ While there are a bunch of software tools that can mod AM4 BIOSes they require a decent amount of knowledge about BIOS modding to be used.
@@MiGujack3 Its also very easy to brick a board and require a EEPRON programmer and soldering to rescue it... So yeah its not hard but you have to know what you are doing...
@@vitor900000 its easy and no, you dont need a eeprom reader or programmer, you most likely can order the complete bios chip via mail. there is MUCH filler stuff inside the uefi bios file, you either delete the senseless filler or the entry of a low end cpu or apu you wont ever use, then instead of 0x000002h AMD RYZEN 3500G 0x0000002h AMD RYZEN 5600x3D and instead of the 3500g register entry you copy and past the uefi code of a bios that natively supports the 5800x3d into yours, now you license that bitch via tool and flash it via the onboard tool of your manufacturer, and you are not a smartass that uses the powershell to get some sus reprogrammer that works via cmd but needs certain inputs or you brick it. easy done.
LTT just want to thank you for making the screwdriver. I finally got it and am now the envy of my pc repair class. My next project is a pc toaster and it will come in handy. Thanks for the great videos for my second monitor while I do my stupid pc projects.
Would have been nice to see what the performance was for the various M.2 about individually and concurrently to see how the PLX multiplexing affected them.
Man Linus doesn't always get it right but the dude knows how to express his passion for topics that he truly loves and is a genius at simplifying technologies just enough so it becomes accessible information to the majority of viewers. It's really quite impressive, even if he's a clumsy idiot 90% of the time.
Dzone - I know just how you feel bro! Linus is like one of those friends who either thrills you or depresses you there ain't no middle ground. But you know what I love what Luke and Linus have created, there is so much good in there for anybody who watches or works there. Never change Luke and Linus! The last 3 Wan Shows have also been top top quality, the best ones in the entire life of LTT :)
That PLX chip is a PCIe switch, not a mux. Mux chips are quite common; they are what enables the dynamic switching between a single x16 slot and two x8 slots on most motherboards.
Gigabyte did release the B550 Aorus Master though, which is one of the only AMD boards with 3 m.2 slots directly connected to the CPU PCIe 4.0 lanes. To achieve this, the primary PCIe slot is limited to 8 lanes if 3 m.2 drives are connected. The board supports RAID for the m.2 drives, allowing read and write speeds of up to 21GB/s
I've got an AM4 Gigabyte motherboard (Vision D or something like that) and the reason your last PCIe slot doesn't work may simply be, because it's shared with one of the NVME slots.
7:22 the PCI ID repository doesn't have a 1532 device, but the range between 1531 and 1538 are all I210 gigabit cards with different configurations. My bet is that it's a fairly standard Intel I210 but programmed in some weird way
Anyone else see the smirk at 6:04 when he says Three-way and Four-way? I swear they cut to the next shot because he and/or the camera people burst out laughing a second later.
can we appreciate that segues are always the perfect length to skip skip skip just before finding out who it even is, but without missing any of the video.
I'm sad that more companies don't still use multiplexers. I remember my old P8Z77 WS allowing for four 8x PCIe slots on an Ivy Bridge chip. Like Linus mentioned, no extra bandwidth, but it allows for more devices that require a minimum number of lanes to be connected.
They can hardly use those multiplexers anymore because of cost. In the past, the PLX8747 chips used to cost roughly ~$40 per chip exclude implementation cost for motherboard manufacturers to buy in huge quantities. In 2014, Broadcom bought PLX company, then they jacked up the price of the PLX chip by 3X to ~$120 (again, exclude implentation cost) . So nobody wants to pay that amount because it is just too expensive for what it provides to the end-user. In comparison, the Z490 and X570 just the chipset alone were roughly the same price, close to $50 per chip. So you see here, the absurd price of the PLX chip.
@@fleurdewin7958 Yeah, it's a real shame. But honestly with the prices of some boards today they should absolutely have one. I've seen some very pricey "designed for workstations" motherboards that don't have multiplexers and when you look at the features it offers you just think "what makes this for workstations".
CPU-Z read something on that board that said Bixby, so it’s possible that was tested with very very early Zen 2 CPUs, since those were released at the same time as the x570 board. This thing might be straddling the gap between naming conventions and the new CPUs with PCIe 4.0 might’ve been killed it. Honestly, as someone who owns systems with X570 and B550 boards, both from Gigabyte at the same tier in their product stack, it seems like the older X570 boards were weirdly populated with features, and the B550 was a better feature set with minimal trade offs. I think if I use both of my m.2 slots for I lose some of the SATA ports because it uses up the lanes or I give up some of the shorter PCIe slots in between the x16 that does 4.0 and the x8 that’s 3.0. It was so minimal, I feel like the B550 was the far better option because it had more USB A ports on the back. Anyway, that board wasn’t as much of a dead end as much as it was likely the precursor to the 500 series chipsets, because that has a mixture of things that found their way into both the X and B models. Even if they ended up going with PCIe switches instead of multiplexers. My guess is that the multiplexer‘s on that board likely caused more issues and didn’t offer enough utility for the price, compared to using switches. You should take some really detailed photographs of that thing and send the images over to Buildzoid-I’m sure he’ll love squeezing a solid hour of content out of it.
I really kind of feel you forgot the early 2000s when NVidia had the NForce chipset for both AMD and Intel (680i & 680a). ATI (before AMD bought them) also had both an AMD and Intel compatible chipsets. Yes these are much older and at the time you had both "North" and "South" Bridges to make everything work including the ports, lanes, cpu, and memory controllers. I did see mention of the 80s&90s x86 (386,486) that were also true that could take not only Intel and AMD CPUs, but Cyrix, Via, and I even had an IBM 486 DX100 CPU.
Found you guys a couple weeks ago and I’m learning everything I can from your videos and forums (it’s confusing tbh… I can build a car but this is another language to me😅)
Good luck with your journey :). I've been watching LTT for over a decade now (been watching since 2012) so to me it's not confusing but I can definitely recall it being super confusing at first when I was trying to learn how to build my first pc haha.
Welcome to the PC community!! It was a little confusing for too in the beginning. But I really enjoy learning about these things now. Hope you have fun too.
I have 3 4tb m.2 nvme drives in my machine and they're all full, 1 for steam, 1 for video editing content, and my system drive which contains a bevvy of very large video editing, 3d design, cad, and machine learning software. I've recently been contemplating storage upgrades recently and while I haven't settled on anything yet, a pair of samsung 16tb u.2 pcie4 nvme drives (paired with a couple of m.2 to u.2 adapters) is a very attractive proposition despite costing more than many people's full gaming computers...
@@meowie64 assuming 50gigs each, which is relatively standard for triple-A, that’s *80* games. Assuming you playing a few of those games that are more like 100-150 gig like warzone, ark of GTA V, that number gets even smaller. Still crazy though.
Its very cool to see what different ideas these engineerings samples were stewing up. Maybe these won't just be thrown away next time and be something to learn from to bring more innovation on the market!
I think the 5000 series created a market for higher end boards in the "prosumer" market segment with regular Ryzen chips that outperformed prior Threadrippers,but if all you need is more M.2 slots you could just get a PCIE expander card for like $60 for a name brand Asus one.
How many people want to bet that at 6:32, he originally said Velcro, then realized that was copyrighted and had to re-record that 10 second piece and replace it with "hook and loop fastener"? Lol
PLX is not a multiplexer !! it is a (packet) switch. The multiplexers are the "passive" parts that allow you to split the x16 PEG lanes into two PCIe connectors by diverting/stealing the top 8 lanes from the x16 primary header into the x8 secondary header. Multiplexers are used later in your video, when the GPU and the 10G NIC shares the PEG slot lanes. That choice cut the PCIe BW for GPU in half.. so testing gaming was not the wisest step in that config. I wonder if you tested the bottom x4 slot alone, since the X470 mobo has it shared with a M.2, which likely stole the priority.
you cant use a pcie gen 4 x16 with a 4090 and max it out, i doubt this has had any impact at all. gpus NEVER apart from pcie 1 did saturate even 60% of the interfaces bandwith, you forget that pcie WAS NOT MADE FOR GPUS. why should a gpu max out pcie x16?
I remember my 486 dx4 100mhz could take intel 486 chips it was top of the line for what it was back then.. it had ISA and PCI witch was fairly uncommon for 486 to have PCI slots here in Australia.
Would be cool if you had a series called Past Tech Today where you go over some of your oldest videos with cutting edge products and retry the tech today.
RGB on a engineering sample board could be useful to debug errors. Individual LEDs could be color and blink coded to signal all sorts of information about the boot stage etc.
Love your vids man get so excited when you upload grew up with you, Austin and a fair amount of you guys but you are easily my favourite and most detail oriented one out, mind you I love the podcast you do more then your main content the real you without the structure had been so great and refreshing as im catching up
Reminds me of when I visited my friend to help him upgrade his pre-built Lenovo PC only to find his AMD CPU was using a default Intel cooler. Apparently their motherboards were manufactured for Intel then modified only just enough to use AMD instead. Thankfully the new cooler had mounting for both AMD and Intel, so we just used the Intel instructions for mounting it instead.
Sata SSDs still fast especially just use for gaming but yeah no extra wires is good and M.2 coming down in price.I only got HDD installed now for extra storage for non related gaming stuff only
Linus... As far as Intel lan driver. Custom load a different Intel driver from similar family and it should load. For example if you have i219v, you can load driver for i219lm and it works fine.
Regarding the network drivers: They probably won't install, because this is a unknown combination of PCI IDs. You can probably "hack" the driver to work by editing some .inf files.
Eu curto seus vídeos antecipadamente, sempre. É uma questão de confiança nos jovens da Tecnologia, como você. No canal eu me inscrevi por plena confiança, ainda que não saiba fluentemente, ou nada sei, sobre a respeitada língua inglesa. Navegar, assistir e confiar, são necessidades que tenho pessoalmente. Sou brasileiro. Obrigado. Até
I have a Nexigo webcam that I bought on Amazon almost a year ago and it works really well. The opening sponsor spot was the first time that I had ever seen Nexigo as a sponsor.
Whoever's reading this, i pray that whatever you're going through gets better and whatever you're struggling with or worrying about is going to be fine and that everyone has a fantastic day! Amen
I remember the days of the Northridge and South ridge showing on the board and one either have a small fan or a tiny aluminium heatsink. Nforce, VIA chipsets especially the K400a one. I also remember the DFI LANparty days where they glow under blue light man the lan parties I'd go to was like a rave
@11:20 My PC has 2x nVME drives + 6x SATA SSD's... As most of us in the enthusiast realm upgrade regularly, there are many like me who have absolutely no need to upgrade (my) our PC storage to something new without a true incentive, and there isn't one for most people. The future storage bottlenecks as far as I can see (and I am no expert), are (in no order), latency, OS/RAM caching, direct loading from SSD's to GPU's, their interfaces, latencies, drivers, etc... I really wonder if Intel dropped 3DXPoint too early, I can see (with a little ingenuity) that the base technology could be a great asset.! Ironically (and IMHO), when launched, AMD system users would have benefitted the most from this "Intel only" tech, but of course, it was "Intel only", how sad :(
It would be nice if Micro Center put a store up in my area. The best option I have for physical locations is Best Buy. It's hard to call them a store for PC enthusiasts though. They've become an appliance store that happens to sell a few prebuilts at this point.
Have you ever thought about making a channel specifically for the regular retail shopper that can't afford brand new 4090's, or MSI TOMAHAWK motherboards, etc, etc? There are all these other channels that are part of the LTT thing, but it feels like the regular retail builder, or even the beginning builder has to start off with the gear we see on your normal videos, which are usually pretty high end and slowly figure out what came out before all of that. I've never been at the forefront on PC builds till this past Christmas. Even then all I could afford was a basic RTX 3060 which y'all hate lol, a Tomahawk DDR4 motherboard, with an Intel i5 12th Gen. Even all that cost a pretty penny for me. It just seems like anything a normal PC buyer could afford to get, is always on the crap end of the shows y'all do, and it would be helpful to see that if we can't afford the biggest and the baddest, we can get a really decent setup on GPU for $250 to $350, CPU from $180 to $350/$400, or a relevant MB for $100 to $200. None of the $500 to $1000 PC parts, ACTUAL reasonable, affordable, prices. Maybe, a video on how you can get a broken PC with a working MB, and know how to identify it. Where do you check on parts to make sure they are compatible in a used setting, things like that. I just know as of right now I technically have to work backwards from whatever builds y'all do to find the actual mid-range gear prices, because what you all consider to be low-end, not worth the time, is a Lamborghini to me lol. I even enjoyed a 1660ti for a bit because it's what I could afford. RTX 3060 was WAY better, for sure, but it's still the crap end if the spectrum for where you all sit lol, and most of the PC's y'all have at home are dirty AF 🤣!! Got servers stashed behind desks, and 4090's covered in spider turds, and dust mite burps 😆. I'm just joking, but seriously. Having a LTT show that specifically shows low to mid level gear that ACTUAL retail customers could utilize to maybe not be at the minimum rwlequirements, but to at least get on the board with some newer games. I mean, I could run MWII on a 1660ti and even cyberpunk 2077 lol, but to you guys it was totally uncool to have a 1660ti 😆. It was cheap damnit 🤣 that's all I'm saying, and make it an actual show, and not a video every three months on the normal show lol. An entire show on how to make the lowest end PC work the best right now lol. Give list of recently marked down last Gen gear even. There is a lot you could do.
Most of my computers have three M.2 drives. My main desktop has four. I always segment my OS to its own drive (something that’s an artifact of what I did back in the day when how I’d have to reinstall Windows too often), and that helps to create the glut of drives. It also doesn’t help that 4TB M.2 drives weren’t a good ratio of price to size compared to 2TB drives until recently. (My latest one is a 4TB.)
Reminds me of how there's a buncha working Commodore 65 prototypes floating around. It was a planned budget system by Commodore that used C64 architecture and would be the low end machine, issue is it would've cost about the same amount as an Amiga 600 which was already out and had pretty much the same RAM etc., but using a 16-bit CPU instead of 8-bit, as well as internal 2.5" IDE HD bay among many things that just made it at least twice as powerful. (it's no wonder they went bankrupt, I always loved their machines, but they created so much unsellable crap)
Could you do a series like "Animator react" from Corridor where you let some developers, managers, CEOs talk about the developing times with the XBOX, PS or Nintendo consoles which you have a developing kit from?
I actually do have 3 NVMe drives in my system. I had to get an adapter card to run the third one off the second PCI-E x16 slot since my motherboard only has 2 m.2 slots. Between those 3 drives, all my PCI-E lanes are in use so I wouldn't be able to add any more without taking lanes away from the GPU.
I would love if they made a board for the 7000 series chips with this feature. It would make a killer Unraid machine for the 12 and 16 cpu variants. 2 gamers 1 pc babyyyyyy
I'm old enough to remember when motherboards and their chipsets could take any socket-compatible x86 CPU from any vendor. Not just Intel and AMD either, but Cyrix and VIA too.
My first CPU upgrade was from a Pentium 100 to an AMD K6-2, wild to think about that today.
Cyrix.....daaamnnn
@@IanSinclair77 Daamnnn 🥲Those were the days
Me too, miss those days. Everything was so exciting back then! I love my modern hardware, but I miss the noise of a Quantum Fireball spinning up
Oh my, I miss those days!
So many cool stuff was available back then! Of course we have much more powerful systems now, but I loved the creativity of the inventions back then and I loved the old „gaming“ cases and early watercooling system.
I’d love to have a modern build in an Oldschool case.
My favorite would be one of the classic Silverstone HTPC (home theater personal computer) cases that looked like parts of an expensive stereo system.
The most amazing one is the version with the external water cooler that also looked like a High End Audio component.
Unfortunately these cases became unobtainable over the years because they were rare even back then, especially with the extra watercooling case.
Correction: the PLX chip on this motherboard is in fact a switch, not a multiplexer! A switch grants the possibility of using more than one device simultaneously, versus one at a time on a multiplexer. Also: all of the motherboards in the intro were taken from our pile of broken hardware - no PC components were damaged in the filming of this video!
Whew that was a relief
Correct! Funny enough I’m researching use-cases for this exact chip at this very moment :P
absolutely bought 2x m.2s when I refreshed my setup in 2018 with a 2600x/X470: 256gb 960 pro for boot, 1tb 970 evo for games. I've been looking into bifurcation cards simply because I don't want to keep expanding with 3.5" SSDs, those require 3.5->5.25 adapters to look good and cable managed in my old Cooler Master HAF932 🤣
That sounds backwards. I work in networking (which I think affects my definition). A DWDM (Dense Wave Division Multiplexer), for example, allows for multiple fiber shots of different wavelengths to be muxed onto the same fiber simultaneously. (For example, allowing 64x 100G waves). Whereas a switch allows multiple connected devices to take turns when using a single connection (think single 10Gig uplink with say 24x 1G connected devices). Note: I think you are correct in that it is a switch, I just think the definition sounds wrong.
PLX or PEX?
Engineering samples tell a massive story on the dev process of all the wacky ideas that could one day be in our pcs. LOVE IT !!
@Sakshi gaming delete your youtube account
Indeed, AMD is doing something quite similar with their current gen chipsets. Afaict it's the same basic chip for all of them, but the high end SKUs have two of that chip, giving you twice as much SATA and 8 more PCIe lanes.
@Sakshi_gamer Indian npc
@Sakshi gaming Indian pc lol
Or could've been in them but won't ever 🤷😂
What a perfect time to refresh so i can have something to watch.
Same for me. Great video anyway! I literally just clicked the Notification button and saw the new video posted.
Same. A trillion on YT and nothing to watch lol.
I think it's about time we took the lid off the black bios box. I hope you guys and gals can do a video on how they make a bios, and what actually goes into engineering and designing them.
It just isn't that interesting to the average viewer. 60% of making a BIOS is done for you via the UEFI spec. (A massive, very technical document, that even I, as a person who's been doing this for a while, sometimes have difficulty comprehending) The rest is other low-level interface stuff that most people who watch this channel don't have the skill set to understand.
It wouldn't be a very good video except for a very specific niche of people (hobby OS developers), who already know all the information in the video.
@@nikkiofthevalley might include a lot of C/C++ and assembly
there was efi developed by intel then improved and created uefi standard which is now being misused by Microsoft specifically secure boot feature which is actually usefull, is being used by MS to bar Dual booting Linux and in general just to make life harder so that everyone only runs windows if they want to have secure firmware .
you are a funny one. making a bios would exceed the knowledge of 99% of this channels views by so much that they wouldnt understand too much about it. and its more or less the same as to making a xmp profile or jedec spec in terms of process and handling. its a bios or reg file with entries like cas to ras latency 0x1h for cas latency of 18 in terms of ram or pure machine language when it comes to things like cpu count and if channel interleaving is allowed are declared by simple 01 or 00 in the block of said command, and the command is defined by the file format language, how that is made is definetly waaaaaay too advanced for ltt.
@@xeon39688 no, it infact doesnt include any programming language apart from bios language.
Seeing those boards tumble out of that bin was just... pain. But a good hook, so credit where it's due!
@Sheela Gaming want some gift cards?
I’m a bot.
If they were socket 7 boards I'd be mad! That was my era getting into pc's.
@@rossharper1983 they may have all been old, and perhaps even dead, it's just the sight of motherboards tumbling around sets off an immediate pain response for me. lol
Good heavens I thought ltt had figured an anti bot system for their comments section.
Man its been a while since we've had a motherboard video! Throwback to the old days of countless identical motherboard reviews, still loved it.
Probably driver support. At the speeds these cards operate... most likely they just couldn't make it work reliably anymore.
2:06 Who recorded that footage, I almost got a heart attack.
I’m amazed at how UA-camrs can make such long videos based on very basic premises, like this random board that’s the same but with just an extra chip. It’s a cool piece of tech history tho.
It’s just a random old CPU, a lot of people buy them by the pound and shoot them.
No need to flinch when they get thrown around..
@@rolux4853 They dropped it in the socket...
@@rolux4853 that's am5 the pin is on the motherboard. Nobody cares about the cpu
@@Eidolon2003 yeah but did you forget that it’s an AMD AM socket? No problem dropping something on it, it’s just a piece of plastic with holes in it.
If it would be an LGA socket like Intel (or the new AM5) uses them, it would be something totally different of course..
The pins would likely get hurt then.
But since it was the old AMD socket, no sockets where harmed in the making of this film.
@@RYU47376 did you even watch the video dude? It’s not AM5 it’s a super old board that not even worked with Ryzen Gen 3..
Edit: spelling error from my German autocorrect
The PEX8714 that's in that board is in fact a PCIe switch not a multiplexer. It has 12 lanes across 5 ports, which means you can put 3 4x ports downstream on a single x4 upstream port, for instance effectively adding in 2 extra x4 slots. A multiplexer would only let you use one device at a time, while they can work simultaneously on a switch. In my knowledge there are only 2 current gen manufacturers of PCIe switches Broadcom (owner of PLX) and Microchip (bought microsemi) Diodes incorporated also makes some Gen 2 and 3 switches but with lower lane counts compared to the big 2.
Fun thing: Aorus Master is the replacement name for the Aorus Gaming 7. Gaming 7 actually has the old Z370 era design, meanwhile Z390 already dropped the number naming scheme and switched to Elite < (maybe a Pro) < (maybe an Ultra) < Master < Xtreme
man hearing 300-350 for a motherboard sounds so good today compared to the $500+ boards we see for current gen stuff
Yeah back then a good X470 board was $200-250 and that was considered overkill. My X470 Taichi is still doing work too. If the PCIe switch chip could add another $100+ to the board price that must be some really expensive silicon.
I got my Asus mobo for 200$ so...bummer for you.
13:03 I recognize those massive concrete columns. That Microcenter is at Liberty Square Industrial Park, in Brooklyn, NY.
2:05 that made me die inside a little... I hope those poor pins are okay :(
Nope, you can see them bended after the hit, i hope that the motherboard was already broken
We have a number of busted motherboards handy for shots like this. I keep them in a pile called "IT'S DEAD JIM!"
I really do love to see these weird Engineering Samples & Prototypes uploads from LTT, Also the dead Graphics card repair attempt from a while ago was lit!
You could try to add the missing CPU microcodes to the BIOS and it may be able to boot with 3Gen+
While there are a bunch of software tools that can mod AM4 BIOSes they require a decent amount of knowledge about BIOS modding to be used.
it's very easy to do, especially on modern boards. z170 boards get modded for 9900ks all the time.
@@MiGujack3 Its also very easy to brick a board and require a EEPRON programmer and soldering to rescue it...
So yeah its not hard but you have to know what you are doing...
@@vitor900000 its easy and no, you dont need a eeprom reader or programmer, you most likely can order the complete bios chip via mail. there is MUCH filler stuff inside the uefi bios file, you either delete the senseless filler or the entry of a low end cpu or apu you wont ever use, then instead of 0x000002h AMD RYZEN 3500G 0x0000002h AMD RYZEN 5600x3D and instead of the 3500g register entry you copy and past the uefi code of a bios that natively supports the 5800x3d into yours, now you license that bitch via tool and flash it via the onboard tool of your manufacturer, and you are not a smartass that uses the powershell to get some sus reprogrammer that works via cmd but needs certain inputs or you brick it. easy done.
LTT just want to thank you for making the screwdriver. I finally got it and am now the envy of my pc repair class. My next project is a pc toaster and it will come in handy. Thanks for the great videos for my second monitor while I do my stupid pc projects.
Would have been nice to see what the performance was for the various M.2 about individually and concurrently to see how the PLX multiplexing affected them.
Man Linus doesn't always get it right but the dude knows how to express his passion for topics that he truly loves and is a genius at simplifying technologies just enough so it becomes accessible information to the majority of viewers. It's really quite impressive, even if he's a clumsy idiot 90% of the time.
99% of the time
Dzone - I know just how you feel bro! Linus is like one of those friends who either thrills you or depresses you there ain't no middle ground.
But you know what I love what Luke and Linus have created, there is so much good in there for anybody who watches or works there. Never change Luke and Linus!
The last 3 Wan Shows have also been top top quality, the best ones in the entire life of LTT :)
This was like the definition of a back handed compliment lol
@Steve Sherman LOL!!!
I like Luke he is the perfect foil to Linus.
You need to break some records to confuse the heck out of people
0:18 as a matter of fact, i did not read the title. I just saw your face and clicked.
That PLX chip is a PCIe switch, not a mux. Mux chips are quite common; they are what enables the dynamic switching between a single x16 slot and two x8 slots on most motherboards.
Gigabyte did release the B550 Aorus Master though, which is one of the only AMD boards with 3 m.2 slots directly connected to the CPU PCIe 4.0 lanes. To achieve this, the primary PCIe slot is limited to 8 lanes if 3 m.2 drives are connected. The board supports RAID for the m.2 drives, allowing read and write speeds of up to 21GB/s
I've got an AM4 Gigabyte motherboard (Vision D or something like that) and the reason your last PCIe slot doesn't work may simply be, because it's shared with one of the NVME slots.
That makes no sense. Why would they use PLX chip then to multiplex pcie lanes?
@@hojnikb I know it makes no sense, but I thought I'd mention it, just in case.
@@hojnikb you would multiplex via slower protocolls, also this isnt a multi.
7:22 the PCI ID repository doesn't have a 1532 device, but the range between 1531 and 1538 are all I210 gigabit cards with different configurations. My bet is that it's a fairly standard Intel I210 but programmed in some weird way
I love the part where Linus says "It's SSD time" and SSDed all over the place
He went into a solid state
Anyone else see the smirk at 6:04 when he says Three-way and Four-way? I swear they cut to the next shot because he and/or the camera people burst out laughing a second later.
Linus: installs RTX 2080, also Linus: "This is the only way for us to get a video output."
can we appreciate that segues are always the perfect length to skip skip skip just before finding out who it even is, but without missing any of the video.
I'm sad that more companies don't still use multiplexers. I remember my old P8Z77 WS allowing for four 8x PCIe slots on an Ivy Bridge chip. Like Linus mentioned, no extra bandwidth, but it allows for more devices that require a minimum number of lanes to be connected.
They can hardly use those multiplexers anymore because of cost. In the past, the PLX8747 chips used to cost roughly ~$40 per chip exclude implementation cost for motherboard manufacturers to buy in huge quantities. In 2014, Broadcom bought PLX company, then they jacked up the price of the PLX chip by 3X to ~$120 (again, exclude implentation cost) . So nobody wants to pay that amount because it is just too expensive for what it provides to the end-user. In comparison, the Z490 and X570 just the chipset alone were roughly the same price, close to $50 per chip. So you see here, the absurd price of the PLX chip.
@@fleurdewin7958 Yeah, it's a real shame. But honestly with the prices of some boards today they should absolutely have one.
I've seen some very pricey "designed for workstations" motherboards that don't have multiplexers and when you look at the features it offers you just think "what makes this for workstations".
So nice to see Mexico sponsoring LTT.
CPU-Z read something on that board that said Bixby, so it’s possible that was tested with very very early Zen 2 CPUs, since those were released at the same time as the x570 board. This thing might be straddling the gap between naming conventions and the new CPUs with PCIe 4.0 might’ve been killed it.
Honestly, as someone who owns systems with X570 and B550 boards, both from Gigabyte at the same tier in their product stack, it seems like the older X570 boards were weirdly populated with features, and the B550 was a better feature set with minimal trade offs. I think if I use both of my m.2 slots for I lose some of the SATA ports because it uses up the lanes or I give up some of the shorter PCIe slots in between the x16 that does 4.0 and the x8 that’s 3.0.
It was so minimal, I feel like the B550 was the far better option because it had more USB A ports on the back.
Anyway, that board wasn’t as much of a dead end as much as it was likely the precursor to the 500 series chipsets, because that has a mixture of things that found their way into both the X and B models. Even if they ended up going with PCIe switches instead of multiplexers. My guess is that the multiplexer‘s on that board likely caused more issues and didn’t offer enough utility for the price, compared to using switches.
You should take some really detailed photographs of that thing and send the images over to Buildzoid-I’m sure he’ll love squeezing a solid hour of content out of it.
I really kind of feel you forgot the early 2000s when NVidia had the NForce chipset for both AMD and Intel (680i & 680a). ATI (before AMD bought them) also had both an AMD and Intel compatible chipsets. Yes these are much older and at the time you had both "North" and "South" Bridges to make everything work including the ports, lanes, cpu, and memory controllers. I did see mention of the 80s&90s x86 (386,486) that were also true that could take not only Intel and AMD CPUs, but Cyrix, Via, and I even had an IBM 486 DX100 CPU.
It would be awesome to make a build with only engineering sample / unreleased parts
Oohhhhh damn, was that a dunk on your own sponsor in the segue? Savage.
Found you guys a couple weeks ago and I’m learning everything I can from your videos and forums (it’s confusing tbh… I can build a car but this is another language to me😅)
Good luck with your journey :). I've been watching LTT for over a decade now (been watching since 2012) so to me it's not confusing but I can definitely recall it being super confusing at first when I was trying to learn how to build my first pc haha.
Welcome to the PC community!!
It was a little confusing for too in the beginning. But I really enjoy learning about these things now. Hope you have fun too.
I have 3 4tb m.2 nvme drives in my machine and they're all full, 1 for steam, 1 for video editing content, and my system drive which contains a bevvy of very large video editing, 3d design, cad, and machine learning software. I've recently been contemplating storage upgrades recently and while I haven't settled on anything yet, a pair of samsung 16tb u.2 pcie4 nvme drives (paired with a couple of m.2 to u.2 adapters) is a very attractive proposition despite costing more than many people's full gaming computers...
How many games does it take to fill up a 4tb drive jesus christ
@@meowie64 assuming 50gigs each, which is relatively standard for triple-A, that’s *80* games. Assuming you playing a few of those games that are more like 100-150 gig like warzone, ark of GTA V, that number gets even smaller. Still crazy though.
Its very cool to see what different ideas these engineerings samples were stewing up. Maybe these won't just be thrown away next time and be something to learn from to bring more innovation on the market!
"from looking at the pixels"... I'll take Linus resurrecting mid-2000s memes for 1200 LMAO
I think the 5000 series created a market for higher end boards in the "prosumer" market segment with regular Ryzen chips that outperformed prior Threadrippers,but if all you need is more M.2 slots you could just get a PCIE expander card for like $60 for a name brand Asus one.
How many people want to bet that at 6:32, he originally said Velcro, then realized that was copyrighted and had to re-record that 10 second piece and replace it with "hook and loop fastener"?
Lol
PLX is not a multiplexer !! it is a (packet) switch. The multiplexers are the "passive" parts that allow you to split the x16 PEG lanes into two PCIe connectors by diverting/stealing the top 8 lanes from the x16 primary header into the x8 secondary header.
Multiplexers are used later in your video, when the GPU and the 10G NIC shares the PEG slot lanes. That choice cut the PCIe BW for GPU in half.. so testing gaming was not the wisest step in that config.
I wonder if you tested the bottom x4 slot alone, since the X470 mobo has it shared with a M.2, which likely stole the priority.
you cant use a pcie gen 4 x16 with a 4090 and max it out, i doubt this has had any impact at all. gpus NEVER apart from pcie 1 did saturate even 60% of the interfaces bandwith, you forget that pcie WAS NOT MADE FOR GPUS. why should a gpu max out pcie x16?
@2:06 I can literally see the pin get bent by the dropped cpu 😭
I remember my 486 dx4 100mhz could take intel 486 chips it was top of the line for what it was back then.. it had ISA and PCI witch was fairly uncommon for 486 to have PCI slots here in Australia.
Would be cool if you had a series called Past Tech Today where you go over some of your oldest videos with cutting edge products and retry the tech today.
RGB on a engineering sample board could be useful to debug errors. Individual LEDs could be color and blink coded to signal all sorts of information about the boot stage etc.
That's what the beeps used to be for.
My gigabyte z790 has a dram cpu vga and boot light . So helpful when troubleshooting
@@Level-up-your-life nearly every not garbage board has drbios.
@@tarkitarker0815 msi has it as well on every board, it's called ezdebug on them
I still remember my first PC with AMD K6-233 on a ASUS TX97E MB(INTEL chipset)
I love you Linus. The amount of work in your videos is amazing! Thanks to you and to all your team!
He's talking about my motherboard like it's old... ? Huh. Funny Linus!
Love your vids man get so excited when you upload grew up with you, Austin and a fair amount of you guys but you are easily my favourite and most detail oriented one out, mind you I love the podcast you do more then your main content the real you without the structure had been so great and refreshing as im catching up
Reminds me of when I visited my friend to help him upgrade his pre-built Lenovo PC only to find his AMD CPU was using a default Intel cooler. Apparently their motherboards were manufactured for Intel then modified only just enough to use AMD instead. Thankfully the new cooler had mounting for both AMD and Intel, so we just used the Intel instructions for mounting it instead.
Recently upgraded to NVME, I like the elimination of extra wires and consolidation onto the mobo. The blazing speed is just the bonus.
Sata SSDs still fast especially just use for gaming but yeah no extra wires is good and M.2 coming down in price.I only got HDD installed now for extra storage for non related gaming stuff only
Not to mention if you actually want a 3rd M.2 you can throw an adapter in your 2nd 16x PCIe slot.
Linus... As far as Intel lan driver. Custom load a different Intel driver from similar family and it should load. For example if you have i219v, you can load driver for i219lm and it works fine.
I wasnt looking at the screen.... I legit thought Mexico was sponsoring his video 😂😂
Regarding the network drivers: They probably won't install, because this is a unknown combination of PCI IDs. You can probably "hack" the driver to work by editing some .inf files.
2:03 "No pins were harmed while shooting this video"
I wonder if such a motherboard could’ve been attempted at a large scale today if cost was the primary issue back then.
wouldn't make any sense, because the "problem" has already been solved by additional PCI lanes
This video has been up for 30 minutes and the comment reply spam and fake accounts linking to videos are already up in arms. Sad.
2:05 seeing that CPU hit the socket with exposed pins was... Tuf.
I know it's ROG, just leave me alone.
2:05 That slap and CPU drop so close to the delicate CPU pins on the motherboard give me anxiety.
Eu curto seus vídeos antecipadamente, sempre. É uma questão de confiança nos jovens da Tecnologia, como você. No canal eu me inscrevi por plena confiança, ainda que não saiba fluentemente, ou nada sei, sobre a respeitada língua inglesa. Navegar, assistir e confiar, são necessidades que tenho pessoalmente. Sou brasileiro. Obrigado. Até
I have a Nexigo webcam that I bought on Amazon almost a year ago and it works really well. The opening sponsor spot was the first time that I had ever seen Nexigo as a sponsor.
Whoever's reading this, i pray that whatever you're going through gets better and whatever you're struggling with or worrying about is going to be fine and that everyone has a fantastic day! Amen
Ugh
And here I always thought Mario was saying "Let's go!"... You learn something new every day.
The Waffle House has found it’s new host
The waffle house has indeed found its new host
The Waffle House has found it’s new host
I remember the days of the Northridge and South ridge showing on the board and one either have a small fan or a tiny aluminium heatsink. Nforce, VIA chipsets especially the K400a one.
I also remember the DFI LANparty days where they glow under blue light man the lan parties I'd go to was like a rave
@11:20 My PC has 2x nVME drives + 6x SATA SSD's... As most of us in the enthusiast realm upgrade regularly, there are many like me who have absolutely no need to upgrade (my) our PC storage to something new without a true incentive, and there isn't one for most people. The future storage bottlenecks as far as I can see (and I am no expert), are (in no order), latency, OS/RAM caching, direct loading from SSD's to GPU's, their interfaces, latencies, drivers, etc... I really wonder if Intel dropped 3DXPoint too early, I can see (with a little ingenuity) that the base technology could be a great asset.! Ironically (and IMHO), when launched, AMD system users would have benefitted the most from this "Intel only" tech, but of course, it was "Intel only", how sad :(
2:06 nice bent pins you got there. Rip that mobo
It would be nice if Micro Center put a store up in my area. The best option I have for physical locations is Best Buy. It's hard to call them a store for PC enthusiasts though. They've become an appliance store that happens to sell a few prebuilts at this point.
It would be wonderful if they opened in my country lol. I see them having so much stuff that I could only dream of seeing in person before buying.
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BRINGING BACK THE CHANNEL INTRO ;_;
depending on the multiplexing you can increase the data bandwidth, eg QPSK or xxQAM which can be used if the carriage is the limiting factor
I run two Nvme drives Linus. you've convinced me to go wireless with your past content.
This is what makes your channel great, quirky, rare hardware that us pleebs would never see otherwise.
I thought the sponsor was the country of Mexico for a moment. Lmao.
“Let’s segway to our sponsor! The Sinaloa Cartel!”
I thought I could predict when the segway to the sponsor comes but I was wrong, the beginning was such a tease.
Have you ever thought about making a channel specifically for the regular retail shopper that can't afford brand new 4090's, or MSI TOMAHAWK motherboards, etc, etc? There are all these other channels that are part of the LTT thing, but it feels like the regular retail builder, or even the beginning builder has to start off with the gear we see on your normal videos, which are usually pretty high end and slowly figure out what came out before all of that. I've never been at the forefront on PC builds till this past Christmas. Even then all I could afford was a basic RTX 3060 which y'all hate lol, a Tomahawk DDR4 motherboard, with an Intel i5 12th Gen. Even all that cost a pretty penny for me.
It just seems like anything a normal PC buyer could afford to get, is always on the crap end of the shows y'all do, and it would be helpful to see that if we can't afford the biggest and the baddest, we can get a really decent setup on GPU for $250 to $350, CPU from $180 to $350/$400, or a relevant MB for $100 to $200. None of the $500 to $1000 PC parts, ACTUAL reasonable, affordable, prices. Maybe, a video on how you can get a broken PC with a working MB, and know how to identify it. Where do you check on parts to make sure they are compatible in a used setting, things like that. I just know as of right now I technically have to work backwards from whatever builds y'all do to find the actual mid-range gear prices, because what you all consider to be low-end, not worth the time, is a Lamborghini to me lol. I even enjoyed a 1660ti for a bit because it's what I could afford. RTX 3060 was WAY better, for sure, but it's still the crap end if the spectrum for where you all sit lol, and most of the PC's y'all have at home are dirty AF 🤣!! Got servers stashed behind desks, and 4090's covered in spider turds, and dust mite burps 😆.
I'm just joking, but seriously. Having a LTT show that specifically shows low to mid level gear that ACTUAL retail customers could utilize to maybe not be at the minimum rwlequirements, but to at least get on the board with some newer games. I mean, I could run MWII on a 1660ti and even cyberpunk 2077 lol, but to you guys it was totally uncool to have a 1660ti 😆. It was cheap damnit 🤣 that's all I'm saying, and make it an actual show, and not a video every three months on the normal show lol. An entire show on how to make the lowest end PC work the best right now lol. Give list of recently marked down last Gen gear even. There is a lot you could do.
Most of my computers have three M.2 drives. My main desktop has four. I always segment my OS to its own drive (something that’s an artifact of what I did back in the day when how I’d have to reinstall Windows too often), and that helps to create the glut of drives. It also doesn’t help that 4TB M.2 drives weren’t a good ratio of price to size compared to 2TB drives until recently. (My latest one is a 4TB.)
I have 3 m.2 drive as well. Due to an old H270 mobo and not much money to upgrade with.
the perfect video to watch in the bus going home from work
Finally a video that has linus on the thumbnail and he's actually part of the whole video.
Yes, I have a small m.2 for Windows and a larger one for my apps, then a bigger SSD for media that I haven't offloaded to my NAS.
One of my older computers had an AMD board with an Intel CPU in it. Around 10 years old I think.
I have 4x M.2 drives in my rig - 2x WD SN850 2TB drives, Samsung 970 Pro 1tb, and Samsung 980 Pro 1tb, plus a 4tb SSHD
“Hook and loop fastener”
Sounds like someone got a C&D from Velcro
For that network card, try to force install the Intel I210/I211 Gigabit Ethernet driver. That should work.
Reminds me of how there's a buncha working Commodore 65 prototypes floating around.
It was a planned budget system by Commodore that used C64 architecture and would be the low end machine, issue is it would've cost about the same amount as an Amiga 600 which was already out and had pretty much the same RAM etc., but using a 16-bit CPU instead of 8-bit, as well as internal 2.5" IDE HD bay among many things that just made it at least twice as powerful.
(it's no wonder they went bankrupt, I always loved their machines, but they created so much unsellable crap)
Perfect time to refresh!
Ltt need more camera tech reviews 🔥
Waiting for this video, currently 4 am
Currently maxing out my X570 Taichi with 3x nvme drives. Loving it :) Would've loved it years ago - but not for an extra $300... hah.
Could you do a series like "Animator react" from Corridor where you let some developers, managers, CEOs talk about the developing times with the XBOX, PS or Nintendo consoles which you have a developing kit from?
I would have liked to see some benchmarking of the MVME drives given the entire point of this board was that PLX chip to make 3 drives possible.
That last segue to sponsor was absolutely BRUTAL
2:06 AHHHHH !!!! how did they not bend a pin in that socket???
Yo just wanna say I love all of your videos and I have learned so much from you! Hope 2023 is going good for you!❤
6:07 SLI is no more?!!So, I bought three 4090 graphic cards for nothing? Ohh man
I actually do have 3 NVMe drives in my system. I had to get an adapter card to run the third one off the second PCI-E x16 slot since my motherboard only has 2 m.2 slots. Between those 3 drives, all my PCI-E lanes are in use so I wouldn't be able to add any more without taking lanes away from the GPU.
2:06 One more addon in the Linus drop tips series
The camera work, though
I would love if they made a board for the 7000 series chips with this feature. It would make a killer Unraid machine for the 12 and 16 cpu variants. 2 gamers 1 pc babyyyyyy
For some cases use of PCIe switches is just necessary. Most of HBA cards for U.2 drives work that way. Yes, it is server/workstation use case.