Revelation’s Satan is not Eden’s serpent

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  • Опубліковано 13 січ 2025

КОМЕНТАРІ • 180

  • @Nymaz
    @Nymaz Місяць тому +8

    Here's one glaring issue with the "garden serpent = Satan" fanfic that I never hear addressed. God itself refers to the serpent as just an animal (Gen 3:14), and then curses ALL OTHER snakes (Gen 3:15) based on the O.G. serpent's actions. That means if the serpent really was Satan in disguise, its disguise was SO GOOD that it fooled omniscient God (of course omniscient God is another later addition).

    • @HandofOmega
      @HandofOmega Місяць тому

      Yep, and there's also the fact that Satan doesn't have descendants, which God also curses, and Satan explicitly does NOT go about on his belly...He outright says he was *walking* in Job and even the Great Dragon in Rev is "standing on the shore", implying legs!

  • @liammcrobert5179
    @liammcrobert5179 Місяць тому +8

    Im blown away by how many ancient mythologies from around the world have a storm god fighting a giant serpent... Zues Typhon. Thor Jörmungandr... to name but 2...

    • @HandofOmega
      @HandofOmega Місяць тому +1

      There's an old theory that, back in prehistory, humanity was ruled by women, apparently based on their mysterious power of reproduction, and society was headed by priestesses who made heavy use of serpentine imagery (snakes shedding their skins often being symbolic of life, immortality and reproduction); eventually, men rose up and overthrew this matriarchy through sheer might of arms, symbolizing this usurpation through stories of Heroic Men killing tyrannous Female Serpents (perhaps best seen in Marduk vs Tiamat). There's no evidence for this, as this would have been long before writing was invented, but it's interesting to speculate about...

    • @stephenbelmont1918
      @stephenbelmont1918 Місяць тому

      ​@@HandofOmega, don't forget Ukko.

  • @Biiku_
    @Biiku_ Місяць тому +15

    Hi, Sneaky Snake here. It was me. I just wanted Eve to have consent and knowledge or whatever. My bad y'all. Aaaanywho, I've got brunch with my besties, byeee! ❤❤❤

    • @icollectstories5702
      @icollectstories5702 Місяць тому +2

      How did you manage to disappear from the Bible? It was like you became invisible after the Eden thing. Everyone claimed you did all sorts of stuff, yet no one could prove you even existed!

    • @Biiku_
      @Biiku_ Місяць тому

      @icollectstories5702 Oh, you know how it is, I was just in the neighborhood, and we get to chatting and I'm like "Girl, you know you're not really gonna die if you eat that thing, he's just gonna get big mad and throw a fit and whatever, but you deserve to know stuff too." And SHE was like "well Adam-" and I told HER "Psh. That guy listens to everyone but himself, you do you, but if it was me, I'd want to make decisions with all the information first, you know? Think on it."
      Anyway, I guess she did, and the guy who talks too much did her dirty and here we are! I just keep minding my own business now, they keep kidnapping us and using us in these weird churches to prove the talking-too-much guy agrees with them or not, it's a weird gig, but it pays. ANYWAY, how are you?

    • @HandofOmega
      @HandofOmega Місяць тому +4

      @@Biiku_ watch out for those heels!

    • @4saken404
      @4saken404 Місяць тому +4

      I heard this in Ryan Reynolds' voice.

    •  Місяць тому

      @@icollectstories5702 he went underground

  • @jamiegallier2106
    @jamiegallier2106 Місяць тому

    Thanks Dan. ❤

  • @josephjohnson631
    @josephjohnson631 Місяць тому +4

    Hey Dan, could you say more about how “some of the creation accounts from the Hebrew Bible attribute creation to the defeat of Leviathan”? Is that a reasonable extrapolation of Genesis 1, or are there other traditions or versions that contain that story? Big fan, btw

  • @derekstaff
    @derekstaff Місяць тому +10

    I am disappointed that the fit for this video was not some shirt with a D&D Tiamat, the multi-headed dragon named after the Sumerian Primordial dragon/monster who is, as I understand it, a conceptual cultural relation to Leviathon. Interestingly, I'd never heard of Leviathon (or Tiamat) being described as multi-headed in the original mythologies before.

  • @floridamaninthewild
    @floridamaninthewild Місяць тому +2

    All of Genesis is myth and fable and no one should take it as anything else.

  • @Skye_7_7
    @Skye_7_7 Місяць тому +1

    Hey Dan, Ba’al (sometimes written Baal) has a guttural stop in the middle (2 syllables) 😊

  • @cyrilmauras4247
    @cyrilmauras4247 Місяць тому +1

    Unlearned ministers ignorant of the original languages of the scriptures made these false assumptions and then passed it to their congregations as fact.

  • @v.m.9198
    @v.m.9198 Місяць тому +5

    If a giant multiheaded dragon insisted that i eat some fruit....i cant really blame Eve for going along with it

    • @randallpickering9944
      @randallpickering9944 Місяць тому +1

      Especially if a talking snake said it was Ok. I wonder where a talking snake came from?

    • @kyzer42
      @kyzer42 Місяць тому

      ​@@randallpickering9944 Maybe it used to be a random, ordinary snake that accidentally ate a fruit that fell from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, then wanted to share his newfound knowledge with the other animals.

  • @mortalengine2934
    @mortalengine2934 Місяць тому +6

    Hercules vs Hydra

  • @Johnroz38
    @Johnroz38 Місяць тому +2

    I am confused in the best possible way. With all this in mind, and what you have said about the book of Job. What is the monster in character 40. I am a little sad that it might not be a dragon.

    • @marv-n-24
      @marv-n-24 Місяць тому +1

      A commentary I found suggests the Behemoth in Job 40:15 isn't Leviathan and is something else. Possibly a reference to an elephant, a hippo, a buffalo, or a different mythical beast (like the Mesopotamian bull of heaven).

    • @HandofOmega
      @HandofOmega Місяць тому +1

      Well, there are TWO monsters described in Job, the land creature Behemoth and the river creature Leviathan (Hebrew mythology also has an equivalent sky creature called Ziz which is always forgotten for some reason); some think the Behemoth might be a memory of an Auroch, while the Leviathan might be an exaggeration of an especially large crocodile...

  • @dominiqueubersfeld2282
    @dominiqueubersfeld2282 27 днів тому

    Revelation’s Satan is not Eden’s serpent: it's Eden's kangaroo!

  • @magnificentuniverse3085
    @magnificentuniverse3085 29 днів тому

    Hey Dan, what do you think about the argument that John is referencing Genesis 3 because he also mentions enmity between the serpent and the woman, and enmity between the serpent and her seed?

  • @ehrenschopenhauer
    @ehrenschopenhauer Місяць тому

    Red sea dragon sounds like Rome to me, they had a red flag and were a naval superpower.

  • @VulcanLogic
    @VulcanLogic Місяць тому +2

    Leviathan seems to be absolutely 100% derivative of Tiamat, who came 1500 years (minimum) before any part of the Bible was written down and over 1000 years before Hebrew was even a language.

  • @annaclarafenyo8185
    @annaclarafenyo8185 Місяць тому +1

    The caveat here is that the J author of Genesis might have consciously used the serpent animal as the antagonist because it is an echo of Leviathan.

    • @Paraves426
      @Paraves426 Місяць тому +1

      It always seemed to me like a “just-so” story explaining why humans and snakes hate each other, and leviathan being depicted as a sea serpent is part of that historical revulsion towards snakes, I’d be intrigued to know how old the serpent in Eden story is and whether there are prototypes of it

  • @KyIeMcCIeIIan
    @KyIeMcCIeIIan 20 днів тому

    If God speaks to you through the Bible it's also important to remember that if you find yourself suddenly reading a lot of verses about the antichrist or satan, God could be trying to warn you about someone coming for YOU. That happened to me right before I got a bully in middle school ;_;

  • @poisontango
    @poisontango Місяць тому

    Are the Revelation and Isaiah 27 leviathans the same as the one in Job?

  • @charlielima9080
    @charlielima9080 Місяць тому

    Assuming Rev 13 is astro-mythology. It likely references the constellations Hydra (multi headed dragon). Leopard (not quite sure as Lynx is not identified as a Ptolemy constellation). Ursa Major/Minor (bear), and Lion (Leo). All of these constellations are relatively close to the Milky Way (sea), to be thought of as coming out of the sea. Plus the Milky Way might have been closer in the past to those constellations as Argo Navis appeared to skim it in the past. I speculate that the Ram caught in the bush was Aries in the Milky Way 4000 years ago, and the myth was up dated 2000 years ago with Peter (the first disciple/zodiac- Aries) not able to walk on water and has fallen below the surface.

  • @susanerickson4676
    @susanerickson4676 Місяць тому

    I’ve read in a few sources that the ancient Hebrew word for serpent used is a pun/double meaning of seraphim which makes more sense with the literary style. And with ancient parallel religions for that matter. Your thoughts?

    • @zevsero9170
      @zevsero9170 Місяць тому

      Saraf (pl. serafim) is *a* word for a type of snake. Whether a saraf is a snake or an angel depends on the context. But the word used for snake in the Garden is not saraf but nahash. Which doesn’t sound anything like any word used for angels.

  • @digitaljanus
    @digitaljanus Місяць тому +37

    Last time I was this early, snakes still had legs.

    • @themightycaolf6549
      @themightycaolf6549 Місяць тому

      Eeeeeey that's a good one.

    • @KaiHenningsen
      @KaiHenningsen Місяць тому +1

      @@themightycaolf6549 And what the ancient Hebrews almost certainly didn't know: Snakes *still* have the DNA for legs, and occasionally, one gets born with legs, just like occasionally a human gets born with a real tail and not just that tailbone. It's rare, but it happens. (And neither is useful.)

    • @gritch66
      @gritch66 Місяць тому +1

      jabberwocky is the puppet of the queen of hearts right? 😂
      and I think like Römer that Inanna was corrupted by Dimuzil when she chose him over Enkidu.

  • @notanotaku1101
    @notanotaku1101 Місяць тому +9

    Convinced by your arguments here, just asking for clarity; is the crushing of the serpent's head like what you mentioned happening to Leviathan a common motif? A similar phrase is used with the serpent in the garden of eden when it is cursed in genesis and I'm curious if that is simply using common language for the era it is written in or if it might have been an intentional attempt to echo the writings referring to Leviathan

    • @maklelan
      @maklelan  Місяць тому +14

      They're unrelated. The Hebrew word in Psalm 74:14 for "crush" is very different from the word in Genesis 3:15 for "grab" or "strike."

    • @notanotaku1101
      @notanotaku1101 Місяць тому +3

      @maklelan thanks!

    • @robertlaprime6203
      @robertlaprime6203 Місяць тому +1

      @@maklelanI have another question, in the same condemnation of the serpent he talks about enmity between the woman and his seed and her seed. We see something similar in revelation 12 about the devil waging war against the woman clothed with the sun and her offspring. Also in what sense did leviathan deceive the whole world? To me in the Christian context this could only seem to be referring to the fall of Adam which was done by the serpent in the garden, unless I’m missing something. Also where do we get the age of the serpent who’s supposedly younger than leviathan? Is it absolutely impossible that leviathan could be the serpent? If so why? I just don’t see why there is the insistence that the serpent in the garden can’t possibly be leviathan or Satan especially when we have a lot of similarities between what we see in revelation 12 and the condemnation of the serpent in Genesis 3.

    • @thehippyhippy4642
      @thehippyhippy4642 Місяць тому

      ​@robertlaprime6203 right at the beginning of gen 3, it is very clear that the serpent was "crafter than any other wild animal that the lord god had made."
      Laviathon was not created by god.
      Laviathon was not a wild animal.
      The serpent didn't deceive anyone, in fact, it is clear, it told the truth.
      If we go off what the text actually says, it wasn't the snake in genesis.

    • @fluxkraken
      @fluxkraken Місяць тому +2

      @@thehippyhippy4642 Yep, if anyone could have been said to have lied in that story, it was God.

  • @christianbohls9880
    @christianbohls9880 Місяць тому +2

    All the great minds and still just speculation and conjecture with no spirit.

  • @HandofOmega
    @HandofOmega Місяць тому +6

    When Isaiah depicts God whipping out his massive anime sword to kill the giant dragon, he's doing an interesting thing: Moving the Primordial Battle of the Hero God vs the Evil Dragon to the END of Time instead of the Beginning, where it was usually shown to happen, often as the basis for the creation of the world (if Egyptian mythology's Apep is also a version of this, it differs in having this battle *constantly* occur, literally every night); if anyone else did this before him, I'm not aware of it.
    In Isaiah, the Leviathan is symbolic of all the powerful nations endangering the Israelites with their armies and politics, which are also often symbolized as a dangerous sea or river; Revelations' Dragon is the same (arising from the sea & spewing forth water instead of fire), the only real difference is that Judea now has largely ONE enemy (Rome) and it now has an additional mythical figure to identify the Dragon with, in Satan.

    • @kyzer42
      @kyzer42 Місяць тому

      Reminds me of the Norse story about Thor fighting for the serpent/dragon Jörmungandr during Ragnarok.

  • @Theprofessorator
    @Theprofessorator Місяць тому +14

    I remember the first time I heard someone say this seriously. I literally had no idea what to make of such a tenuous link. Like, that's the only hint God gave in the entire book and no Jews never could have understood this link? It only got worse once I learned that the author of Revelation is just some guy. I have no idea why anyone thinks Paul is an authority on anything and then along comes John of Patmos saying, "Hold my wine."

    • @jessebumann
      @jessebumann Місяць тому +1

      The churches John wrote to certainly thought he had authority, they preserved his prophecy. Early Christian writers like Justin Martyr and Papais also felt the John who wrote it had authority.

    • @Theprofessorator
      @Theprofessorator Місяць тому +5

      @@jessebumann Revelation has always been in question by the church and nearly didn't make it into the modern canon we call "The Bible." So, let's not overstate our case here.

    • @jessebumann
      @jessebumann Місяць тому +2

      @@Theprofessorator Just saying that the hesitation on Revelation was largely because some doubted the authorship, not because the author didn’t have authority.

    • @Theprofessorator
      @Theprofessorator Місяць тому

      @@jessebumann ​Authority over a church does not make the story you write down true. I'm sorry. So, we'll start from the beginning. Why do you believe John's vision was from God?

    • @jessebumann
      @jessebumann Місяць тому

      @ My point was just that John wasn’t “some guy” but someone clearly respected by not just one, but SEVEN churches from different countries.
      As for why I believe John’s vision was from God, I take something of a historical approach to Rev., while still holding to the notion that we’re not all the way through it yet. And I trust that the many years it took for Rev. to gain widespread acceptance allowed the Apostolic and early church fathers to reasonably discern the Spirit in the text, Iranaeus wrote about it. I also feel it lines up with the rest of Scripture

  • @gritch66
    @gritch66 Місяць тому

    According to Römer the serpent of Eden in Mesopotamia may refer to Ningishzida or Shamaran.
    In Egypt Apophis or Uraeus.

    • @frankwilson-c6j
      @frankwilson-c6j Місяць тому

      Ningishzida, son of Enki, the real advocates for humanity in a fictional story.

  • @danjohnston9037
    @danjohnston9037 Місяць тому +4

    So basically
    stop being racist toward snakes 😏

  • @alanb8884
    @alanb8884 Місяць тому +2

    What is the origin of the name or description "devil"?

    • @ready1fire1aim1
      @ready1fire1aim1 Місяць тому

      I think it's the "darkness of ignorance which leads to evil actions".

    • @Delmania01
      @Delmania01 Місяць тому +1

      It’s rooted in the word diabolos which means accuser, which is one of the translations of satan.

  • @batbite_
    @batbite_ Місяць тому +2

    Is there a connection between the proto leviathan myth and the myth of Jörmungandr and its battle with Thor?

    • @KneelBeforeDru
      @KneelBeforeDru Місяць тому +4

      @batbite_ Jörmungandr seems to be a northern Germanic variation of an Indo-European motif, which includes the serpent-form god of the freshwater-source stream that encircles the flat Earth in Greek mythology (Okeanos/Ophion); this concept is identical to the Babylonian freshwater-source god Apsu, a likely antecessor of Liwtan/Leviathan. If all of these myths come from an original source myth, it would have been too far in the past for us to have any record of it, or to reconstruct it on linguistic grounds.

    • @batbite_
      @batbite_ Місяць тому +1

      @KneelBeforeDru in conclusion, the world started with the separation of earth/sky / ocean/sky when the thunder god castrated the sky god / won over the giant serpent and threw this member/serpent into the sea 🩷🩷🩷

    • @batbite_
      @batbite_ Місяць тому

      @@KneelBeforeDru kirk and raven talks about how the theogony has different versions og the same myth reunited as textual layers so that the separation (chaos) of earth and sky repeats itself both in the beginning and in saturns castration and again in later orphic myths about the snake breaking the cosmic egg which becomes earth and sky 🩷

    • @batbite_
      @batbite_ Місяць тому

      @@KneelBeforeDru kirk and raven talks about how the theogony has different versions og the same myth reunited as textual layers so that the separation (chaos) of earth and sky repeats itself both in the beginning and in saturns castration and again in later orphic myths about the snake breaking the cosmic egg which becomes earth and sky 🩷

    • @KneelBeforeDru
      @KneelBeforeDru Місяць тому +1

      @@batbite_ Yeah, it does seem that there's a common thread in Indo-European and Mesopotamian/Levantine mythology, but as I said, it's impossible to positively demonstrate it with the texts and inscriptions that have survived. Definitely fun to speculate about, though

  • @QuinnPrice
    @QuinnPrice Місяць тому +10

    So Leviathan is not a Swedish metal band, but a very naughty boy who lived in the sea that prevented land from appearing. Glad that the God who created both figured out how to subdue him, probably by using Swedish metal music.

    • @Alex_Mitchell
      @Alex_Mitchell Місяць тому

      Swedish FOLK music. Haven't you watched Metalocalypse?

  • @Aldrnari956
    @Aldrnari956 Місяць тому

    0:10 Hi

  • @SoCalRegisteredNurse
    @SoCalRegisteredNurse Місяць тому

    Can you explain the reference of Adam’s Cloth? I’ve seen pictures of an actual gigantic shirt that’s supposed to represent it. Thanks

  • @glenwillson5073
    @glenwillson5073 Місяць тому

    Help me out with the logic here.
    The defeat of leviathan clears the way for creation.
    Adam & Eve are subsequently created.
    Along comes a serpent for a chat.
    Isaiah 27:1 identifies leviathan as a serpent.
    But this serpent can't possibly be the same serpent.
    Why not? Two different serpents.
    Why? One is much older than the other.
    What would be the proof of this claim exactly?
    The Isaiah serpent is a "piercing" & "crooked" serpent.
    The Eden serpent is "more subtil than any beast of the field".
    Two serpents, same character or one serpent, consistent character?

  • @NotMyGumDropButtons.444
    @NotMyGumDropButtons.444 Місяць тому +1

    2:14 this kinda a little bit sounds like Tiamat

  • @garrettmorano3038
    @garrettmorano3038 22 дні тому

    "There is no connection between Satan and the snake in the Bible anywhere at all."
    Genesis 3: "will put enmity between you (God talking to the Serpent) and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heel."
    Romans 16:20 "The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet. The grace of our Lord Jesus be with you."
    1 Timothy 2:14 "And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman was DECIEVED and became a wrongdoer"
    Revelation 12:9 Satan, who DECIEVES the whole world; he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.
    None. Not one connection at all. Nope.

  • @arrowheadkennels
    @arrowheadkennels 24 дні тому

    Rev 20:2 tell us thevdregon snd serpent are Daraon. Saran means slanderer. Devil means opposer. Exact what the snake did in Genesis. There is no other who this could be. Animals dudnt talk. Only a powerful one coukd act as a ventriloquist with the snake. It has to be ne Satan

  • @garycarter6773
    @garycarter6773 Місяць тому

    ❤❤❤❤❤❤thanks Dan!!

  • @ShadeTreePastor
    @ShadeTreePastor Місяць тому +1

    Hey @maklelan ! I have a question for you for another video. I recently have been learning how harmful the church's teaching on purity culture has been over the decades. I was wondering if there are any teachings in the Bible that explicitly condemn premarital sex between non-married consenting adults?
    I know that most of the verses cited by people in support of that view reference the Greek porneia, often translated as a rather vague "sexual immorality." I know that phrase has been translated as fornicate at times, and many people believe it includes the concept of premarital sex. Does it? And if not, what does it mean?

    • @MusicalRaichu
      @MusicalRaichu Місяць тому +2

      The Bible says very little about premarital acts. According to modern interpretations, the lovers in Song of Songs were unmarried because the woman's brothers wouldn't allow her to get married. The cultures represented in the Bible are too different to the modern western world so you can't willy-nilly rely on rules and precedents in the Bible as a guide today.
      Based on the research I've read, the meaning of porneia was originally about prostitushon but shifted over time. There is insufficient evidence to pin down an accurate scope was in the NT. No one knows exactly what the NT is talking about.
      In societies represented in the Bible, girls were mostly married in their teens. Surmising here, but that means there was no availability of girls to make casual or bf/gf premarital relations. By NT times, I've read that Roman boys were allowed to start doing it in their teens, but I guess their options would have been prostitoots and enslaved both male and female.
      In the early centuries secs was seen as an act where an active penetrator dominated and derived pleasure from a passive penetrated. You can understand why Christianity soon became suspicious of it and reluctantly only allowed it for reproductive purposes by married couples. It was cultural and had little to do with the Bible.
      My guess is that purity culture was a modern Christian attempt to curtail what they saw as modern excesses since the secs revolution. Again it was predominantly cultural but they cited the Bible (incorrectly IMHO) as a proof text.

    • @judosailor610
      @judosailor610 Місяць тому

      @ Thanks man. That is pretty much what I think as well. I'd still like to have Dan chime in, particularly on the meaning and use of porneia.

    • @MusicalRaichu
      @MusicalRaichu Місяць тому

      @@judosailor610 Sorry I forgot to point out that in Roman society, it was acceptable for a married man to use prostitoots and slaivs. Only other men's wives were off limits.
      The term translated "adultery" meant infringing another man's property, in other words unfaithfulness on the woman's part. Since Jews (who predominantly wrote the NT) thought a married man should not engage in secs with other unmarried women, that's possibly what "porneia" is doing there. My guess is that vice lists included both terms to cover unfaithfulness by either party.
      Yeah I'd like to hear what Dan knows about this area too.

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  • @azurejester
    @azurejester Місяць тому +5

    I really appreciate that when you show a slide, picture, or read a verse, or whatever, you put it up on screen and explain it. It makes it so much easier to follow, and understand, what you're trying to say.
    It's cool you have consideration for the layman. A lot of the stuff is still way above my pay grade but i feel like i have a basic general idea of what you said

  • @stephenwodz7593
    @stephenwodz7593 Місяць тому +1

    Medieval Europeans portrayed Satan with legs and / or wings, which contradicts the description of the serpent in Genesis (after YHWH condemns him to crawl on his belly).

  • @jamieduguid
    @jamieduguid Місяць тому +2

    You said there is no connection between Satan and the serpent in the garden anywhere in the Bible, but in Romans 16:20, Paul’s says “The God of peace will shortly crush Satan under your feet.” I’d take this as an allusion to Genesis 3:15, with Satan swapped out for the serpent!
    As for the dragon in Revelation 12, I totally agree with the allusions you adduce here, but Revelation frequently combines allusions to multiple different passages from the Hebrew Bible. The fact that the dragon is a deceiver might link him to the serpent in Genesis 3, whom the woman claims deceived her. Genesis 3:15 might be in the background here too, with the dragon making war on the woman’s “seed” (v.17) - an allusion to the enmity between the serpent and “the seed of the woman” in Genesis 3:15.

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      @plompyy Місяць тому

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    • @brandon3920
      @brandon3920 Місяць тому +6

      The phrase “crush under your feet” actually shows up in quite a few places besides Romans 16:20. For example, in Matthew 22:44, God talks about putting enemies under your feet. You see the same thing in Luke 20:43 and 1 Corinthians 15:25. Basically, it means that your enemies will be powerless and completely subdued.
      The Genesis serpent has gone through a lot of changes in interpretation before it was linked to Satan. Originally, in Jewish thought, it was associated with Yetzer Hara. Later on, it was seen as the Watcher Gadreel in 1 Enoch. Sometimes, it’s just a serpent that the Devil uses to talk to Eve, like in the Apocalypse of Moses. Then, it’s reinterpreted as Azazel in the Apocalypse of Abraham, and so on.
      In my research for my book, the earliest link between the Devil and the Genesis serpent I found is in the writings of early church fathers like Irenaeus, around 180 CE.

    • @celsus7979
      @celsus7979 Місяць тому +1

      I hope Dan reads this discussion. You both make interesting points.

    • @brandon3920
      @brandon3920 Місяць тому +4

      @@celsus7979, I’m definitely open to having discussions on this. I grew up Southern Baptist, and having the fear of Satan as a child. So naturally I decided to compile my research into a book to correct my childhood trauma.
      Dan is actually one of my main sources for my research.

    • @celsus7979
      @celsus7979 Місяць тому +2

      Writing a book about past trauma is a good way to overcome it.
      Make life great again 😉

  • @critter5248
    @critter5248 Місяць тому

    they say satan is anywhere

  • @ready1fire1aim1
    @ready1fire1aim1 Місяць тому

    How is Jesus not Cain? Those two characters appear to be the only ones with a crazy Yahweh mark on them in the Bible.

  • @celsus7979
    @celsus7979 Місяць тому

    The real question is "is Homer Simpson's branch monster in the garden of Eden Satan"?

  • @gabbygood6813
    @gabbygood6813 Місяць тому

    The serpent in the garden was the Christ

  • @gritch66
    @gritch66 Місяць тому

    Excellent thank you

  • @ronjones1414
    @ronjones1414 Місяць тому

    It is very simple, Cobra from the GI Joe saga is Leviathin is Satan. This isn't very difficult.

  • @stephenbelmont1918
    @stephenbelmont1918 Місяць тому +1

    Thanks for contradicting LDS dogma.

    • @DarkAdonisVyers
      @DarkAdonisVyers Місяць тому +14

      It's almost as if scholarship and belief are 2 different things, huh?

    • @stephenbelmont1918
      @stephenbelmont1918 Місяць тому

      ​@@DarkAdonisVyersYup, it's like this stuff gets made up out of thin air.

  • @Cloudryder
    @Cloudryder Місяць тому +1

    Order and chaos, an ancient theme of mythology. People just need to realize we live in a world of opposites and there’s no such thing as Utopia.

    • @celsus7979
      @celsus7979 Місяць тому

      I wonder if the snake symbolizes dualism with its body movement from one side to the other, and its forked tongue.
      'Knowledge of good and bad' - dualism.

    • @Cloudryder
      @Cloudryder Місяць тому

      @ That’s just a speculative philosophical definition. Mankind and nature are not separated.

    • @gilgamesh7652
      @gilgamesh7652 Місяць тому

      I think people should evolve and go beyond of a dualistic mentality.
      Darkness is not the opposite of light but the lack of light or more accurte the "most lesser" version of light

    • @Cloudryder
      @Cloudryder Місяць тому +1

      @ Or just drop the dualism ideology altogether and stop slapping labels on one another that treats us like objects. ❤️

    • @frankwilson-c6j
      @frankwilson-c6j Місяць тому +1

      And no one is coming to save us.

  • @TheTruthIsAbsolute
    @TheTruthIsAbsolute Місяць тому

    What is the Hebrew Bible as you mention, is it the Torah? Because there's no mention of leviathan in Genesis
    Also who was the king of Tyre being referred to in Ezekiel 28:10-19? And why is the serpent depicted as an antagonist in Isaiah 14:29 with reference back to Isaiah 14:12?

    • @johnmcgimpsey1825
      @johnmcgimpsey1825 Місяць тому +3

      The Hebrew Bible is the Tanakh, which includes the Torah. Essentially, it's the books in the Christian Old Testament, but in a different order.

    • @TheTruthIsAbsolute
      @TheTruthIsAbsolute Місяць тому

      @johnmcgimpsey1825 correct as a Christian I believe the Tanakh is the Hebrew Bible as well. I'm honestly just wondering where the scholarship is coming from. I'd rather not assume but it's safe to say that the creation accounts do not refer to leviathan much less would they attribute the term 'serpent of old' to Leviathan. Serpent is a term used in multiple contexts but the Christian view of Satan being the serpent is not foreign to the Jews as it's written in the Kabbalistic writings. Fictional as they are, the theme is there with Ezekile 28 and Isaiah 14 to substantiate

  • @sheilagraddy2290
    @sheilagraddy2290 Місяць тому

    Cables Ocean, Red Nation, M - A - Red, Star L 🛰.

  • @tramberg1972
    @tramberg1972 Місяць тому

    Nice, my comment was deleted

  • @jay.watchman9986
    @jay.watchman9986 Місяць тому +1

    You're just complicating things here. "Leviathan", "the Serpent" or "Tree of knowledge..." are ALLEGORIES for people. It can be proven from the Gospels and Revelation too.

    • @Bobjdobbs
      @Bobjdobbs Місяць тому

      Yes. That is your assumption, devoid a
      If any literary critique and based upon a plain text reading, ignoring linguistic and cultural context.

  • @quetzelmichaels1637
    @quetzelmichaels1637 Місяць тому

    Snake also means Shining One or Morning Star. The Morning Star is the ruler of this world, wheverer man may dwell. He was cut down to the ground, cut down to a stump fettered in iron and bronze. Israel was fettered in iron and bronze, with the sky as iron and the earth as bronze.
    Christ is the Leviathan. The Red Dragon with sveen heads and ten horns. The Beast with seven heads and ten horns given the power and rule along with the great authority of THE Dragon, YHWH. Whatever the Father does, the Son does likewise. Just as Moses lifted up the Snake in the desert, so must the Son of Man be lifted up.
    YHWH judged the gods - who neither know nor understand, wandering about in darkness. I came into this world for judgment (Joh 9:39 NABO)
    Anti-Christ: The wrath of the Lamb. Leviathan was given as food (flesh) and drink (wine). Christ is the Lawless One. It is a simple use of perspective, of being made to be sin.
    He was counted among the wicked (lawless)'; and indeed what is written about me is coming to fulfillment."
    "Lord, look, there are two swords here. (Luk 22:37-38 NABO)
    Adam, who was without sin, wields the fiery sword on the day of vengeance as judgment.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------
    As the Lawless One, with all the power, signs, and wonders at the disposal of falsehood, and seeming to be a part of the workings of Satan, 2Thess 2:9-11, he leads them astray, as if with a bridle in the jaw of the people, on the day of the great slaughter, Is 30:25-28, having been given the power and rule, along with great authority of The Dragon - as the First Beast/ Red Dragon, Rv 13:2, with seven heads and ten horns, Rv 12:3.
    Just as it is appointed that human beings die - be judged - appear a second time, (so also Christ) …will return Heb 9:27-28 …as the (Red) Dragon (Demon Sin) stood before the woman about to give birth, to devour her child when she gave birth. (Rev 12:4 NABO)
    And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord (Jesus) will (Transfigure) with the spirit of the sword of his mouth and render speechless by his glorious radiance (2Th 2:8). When he rises against the prince of princes, he shall be broken without a hand being raised. (Dan 8:25 NABO)
    his face shone like the sun and his clothes became white as light. (Mat 17:2 NABO)
    whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming(2Th 2:8 KJV)
    If you do well, you can hold up your head; but if not, sin is a demon lurking at the door: his urge is toward you, yet you can be his master (Gen 4:7 NABO)
    Who, robed in splendor, judges nations, crushes heads across the wide earth, Who drinks from the brook by the wayside and thus holds high the head. (Psa 110:6-7 NABO)

  • @earlygenesistherevealedcos1982
    @earlygenesistherevealedcos1982 Місяць тому

    Ach, after complimenting you on the last one I see you are back to being wrong again. Leviathan is the Serpent is Satan is the Devil, the name changes as the nature of opposing God changes.

    • @Dave01Rhodes
      @Dave01Rhodes Місяць тому +2

      Ok, but what’s your evidence for that? The serpent in Genesis isn’t described as anything like Leviathan, (single head, crawls on belly, strikes at heel height) and the description of the serpent in Revelation matches Leviathan pretty well. So where are you getting that by Revelation, Genesis had become wrong about what the serpent in Eden looked like?

    • @earlygenesistherevealedcos1982
      @earlygenesistherevealedcos1982 Місяць тому

      @@Dave01Rhodes well this took 38 minutes on vid, but I will give it a try for you. Just remember this isn't about what a modern scholar thinks the Dragon in Revelation could be, but what the Apostles and church Fathers thought. They thought there was a unifying theme in all the texts because of the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. We will come back to that. Look at Isaiah 27:1...
      Here the word for "Leviathan", "Serpent" and "Dragon" are all used to describe the same entity and He is God's opponent. There are several words for "serpent" in Hebrew, but this is the same one used in Genesis. So you see that Isaiah thought that Leviathan was the same category of creature as the serpent in Genesis. Leviathan would be a serpent of the first rank and order, and that is why it was also a "dragon". John would have undoubtedly have been familiar with this passage.
      In Ezekiel 29 Pharaoh is called a "dragon" and the language the prophet uses for what God will do to him is extremely close to the language God uses in Job when He asks Job "will you do this to Leviathan"? So Pharaoh isn't Leviathan, but as a malevolent and powerful being opposing God he is of the same category as Leviathan, a great dragon, and will be treated in a way consistent with God's description in Job of Leviathan being humbled.
      Now let's get back to that unifying them. In the Gospel of John 5:46 Jesus is recording saying that Moses wrote about HIM, so much so that if you did not believe on Him, you didn't really believe in Moses either! In Luke, the Road to Emmaus alludes to the same idea. The scriptures are talking about Jesus. Bear in mind what the Apostles believed about Christ and the church as "the body of Christ". The Seed in Genesis 3:15 would be Christ. Some of those would be on earth but most in heaven as time went on. The only part the serpent could strike would be those still on the earth- in Revelation John speaks of the dragon being cast down to earth and making war on the rest of the saints. That would be "the feet" of the "body of Christ", He who is the promised "Seed" who crushes the serpent's head and in whom are "the living".
      In Job, Leviathan is also spoken of as if it had a single head. Revelation is a vision into the spiritual world and uses symbolic language. The seven heads is a representation of chaos. A being at odds even with itself, as evil is seen in Christendom. I would not take a representation of the seven heads in a book full of apocalyptical imagery too literally.
      Further we see a progression of God's adversary which changes as God's relationship with man changes. At the start, it is a chaos monster, working against God's desire for order. It just wants destruction. After the fall, and especially after the law, we see "the accuser" which is the way "satan" can also be translated. Regardless, the narrative part of the bible makes clear accusing the saints of God is what it does. Unfortunately, during the period of the OT, these accusations were too often on the mark. After Christ, the moniker of this being again changes. "the devil" means "the slanderer". It still accuses, but because of the work of Christ these charges are no longer true. The name may change as the exact way opposition to God is carried out, but it is still the same job- God's opponent. Leviathan- the serpent - the satan - the devil. All the same entity.

    • @Bobjdobbs
      @Bobjdobbs Місяць тому

      Wow you are dumb.

  • @Patriot218S
    @Patriot218S Місяць тому

    John 8:44-“Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.”
    Revelation 20:2-"And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,"

    • @KaiHenningsen
      @KaiHenningsen Місяць тому +4

      Old sea monster is clearly a symbol for the sea itself, which has, indeed, killed many men, and still does to this day.

    • @Patriot218S
      @Patriot218S Місяць тому

      @ Job 41:1-“Canst thou draw out leviathan with an hook? or his tongue with a cord which thou lettest down?”
      Psalm 104:26-“There go the ships: there is that leviathan, whom thou hast made to play therein.”
      Psalm 74:14-“Thou brakest the heads of leviathan in pieces, and gavest him to be meat to the people inhabiting the wilderness.”