IDW Sonic: Imposter Syndrome #3 | A Comic Review by Megabeatman
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- Опубліковано 5 лип 2024
- Surge and Kit access Starline's logs to learn more about their origins and it's not pretty. #IDWSonic #ImposterSyndrome #RoadtoIssue50
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Chapters
00:00 - Title
00:18 - Intro
00:57 - Summary
06:26 - General Thoughts
10:45 - End Credits, Stinger, & End Card - Розваги
Starline is a complete monster, poor Surge and Kit.
Better be careful Starline, you dont know in what you have gotten into.
I'm enjoying your videos and posts as well.
Dr. Starline a Monster? No, He's a Devil
Starline is more likely crooked than a monster. Plus, whenever he makes a deal with someone he throws them under the bus.
This issue gave me everything I wanted with Surge and Kit having their backstory revealed while not taking it away like having their minds erased not know what happened wasting an issue. Starline keep taking L's because it would so easy to fix his minor problems but I love it in a way since it funny how he screws himself over. Poor Surge I feel bad for her because she wasn't like this and Kit was created to be secretly evil and open up to his darkside. I love how broken they are and I mean their powers because they basically have superpowers plus a healing factor and thats awesome. Surge and Kit being major villians is what I want and Starline going to be betrayed is satisfying. Overall this is 10/10 issue because it gave me what I want and more and the future is bright for IDW Sonic.
I think Surge and Kit regain a little of their original personalities at the end. Kit is obvious, Surge is more subtle, but she display a more emotional(in place of rough girl act) and nice demeanor it's easy to outlook for her energetic personality.
Pretty sure it was indeed intentional that the naughty bits were censored. We can't have someone getting obsessed over feet. In all seriousness, now we know what Surge looks like with her hair down and that she doesn't have alternate chest fur.
Even to this day, we are still feeling the effects of the Metal Virus. And man, Ian wasn't kidding when he said this would be the darkest issue of this arc. We watched Surge and Kit "die" over and over again. (And to iconic video game deaths.) Starline erased their trauma, but the psychological damage is still present. And with each revival, they become more unstable.
Is it wrong to feel sympathetic for Surge and Kit? The tough girl is shedding tears and the timid boy became serious.
Starline might be on the same level of evil as Archie Eggman. But Fleetway Eggman is a whole 'nother monster.
Man, this issue was pure "oof!"
The moment I saw Starline hypnotism sessions Surge and Kit caught me off guard. ()
The other shocker was when Surge decides to just let everything burn.
I loved that you pointed out how cold Kit became after that revelation. That double panel between him and Surge did a good job showing that, almost as if he was trying not to say anything lest he rips Starline a new one.
One thing that wasn't pointed out was that in the test sessions, Surge resisted the hypnosis sessions far longer than Kit, while Kit seemed more mentally resilient to the physical trainings.
@@BrakSplash I meant that when it came to the physical trainings, Surge seemed to be the one who snapped first from all of the previous stress. It seemed to took Kit longer to break.
I love that Surge and Kit are going in the "make the world burn" direction. It's a nice change of pace from the "conquer the world" direction most of the villains have.
Fit them more.
And better Executed then Zeti’s.
And the scenario looks like Infinte, though no Phantom Ruby required and while the Jackal joined of his own free will, the Sonic and Tails knockoffs were kidnapped by Starline so he can play God with the Status Quo of the Eggman Empire, which is not a good idea! (Since we all know history doesn’t take kindly to those to play God, as said by James Bond. Hell, I even have it referenced in VA Review of this Issue! ua-cam.com/video/11LDsfnoBIk/v-deo.html Though I never did mention the near parallels between Infinite’s creation and Surge and Kit’s creation in the review, albeit in different paths…)
Starline taking a page of Dr. Gero and Archie Eggman? Yep, he’s going to get himself killed by that logic. I also feel bad for Kit and Surge for witnessing their progress, and not knowing their pasts? That really sucks, but then again, acting like Android 17 and 18? Oh god, that means everyone is in danger
I know the likely hood is slime but I would be down for an Android Saga-Cell Saga like arc in the comics. After all I doubt Starline abandoned his "Better Metal Sonic" idea and may even keep it in the wings for a just incase Surge and Kit grow beyond his control, absorbs Kit and Surge and becomes a nigh unstoppable horrific threat.
Though who is going to pull a "Young Gohan?" though. All things considered my money is on Tangle as she seems to be the rising star though my own pet threories wouldn't mind it being from Cream harking back to how she mroe or less mangled Emerl in Sonic X. Time will tell.
I’m hoping the Chaotix Detective Agency can help them both find out who they were and where they came from. I can’t deny the seeing Surge angry enough to look like Stitch made my sympathize with her and Kit.
Side Note: I hope Starline stops overdocumenting his stuff. It’s gonna be the death of him.
Literally if Surge and Kit have anything to say about it.
I'm so glad there not robots just kidnapped victims with Cybernetics inside them
Same! I'm gonna have to re-read this mini series now that I'm not waiting to be let down by a AI/robot reveale 🙆🏽♀️
@@GeneBean43 Righteous 😁
@@GeneBean43 and I know the same feeling 😌
I like this issue for how much deep it give to Surge and Kit. The first show sadness and vulnerability, while Kit show be disturbed and show a more cold hearted anger (possibly these were part of their original personalities, what implied the level of psicological damage the platypus inflicted to them).
The sad thing is it's most likely they were a common people(in special surge) that have the bad look to be involved with the Metal Virus or , most likely, the Phantom Ruby incident.
PD: Even if Surge trow away her only chance to know who she was. It doesn't feel like a dumb choice, the dumb one it's trust Dr Steerline gonna tell them the Truth.
I love how surge tells kit to attack starline showing intimidation
6:00 by the way they also dressed him since he was in his robe and now he is in his normal clothes
Hope they didn't do anything else with him while he was knocked out...
Forget about Surge wanting to burn everything, I'll be more worried about Kit. He always did more damage than Surge, now a more self-aware Kit is the equivalent of that one quiet kid in school, but the kid now has powers.
I'm just saying, Kit can drown people with a bottle of water if he wanted to.
I'd like to point out that it took more tries to get surge to her personality than it did for kit.
It took 199 more tries in fact.
Surge: 232
Kit: 33
So its safe to assume that parts of their personalities were somewhat similar before they were transformed.
ie surge was probably strong willed beforehand and kit was shy and a bit submissive
I took it as maybe Kit was shy before but so was Surge. So since Starline needed a Sonic-esque personality, he needed more sessions to twist her.
@@smugsneasel yeah that's another great way to look at it. The reason I thought surge was more strong willed was because I thought that it would take longer to switch a strong willed person with a strong personality into someone else into someone they're not.
But I can totally see how your theory would work too since making someone have the same personality close sonic is going to be pretty hard.
and breedable
You would think for someone who went on about failsafes to Eggman, Starline would have had more than just one like some kind of voice command override or something.
Surge's "I need CONTEXT!" and "Burn EVERYTHING to the ground!" Speeches, while short, are gonna be audition defining clips for anybody who might voice her if she makes any official appearance outside of the comics. (which I hope all the IDW heroes and villains do at some point, even in a spin-off game like a new Sonic Riders, Sonic Racing, ect.)
Btw, my headcanon voices for them are Matthew Mercer as Starline, Kira Buckland as Surge, and Casey Mongillo as Kit. Although, Casey and Kira's vocal ranges are actually wide enough that you could also cast Casey as Surge and Kira as Kit and still get great performances, imo)
I do think it would be interesting to see some of these characters voiced in a game, though I suppose the closest there is to that currently is Sonic Forces: Speed Battle, and Sonic Dash having Tangle and Whisper as playable characters, both mobile games of which have no voice lines for the playable characters.
Oh Starline, you really should've put some password protection on your log entries.
Poor Kit and Surge though. Being forced to forget who they were, constantly put through the ringer with brutal as hell training and potentially unable to die thanks to Starline reusing and modifying the Metal Virus which can prevent fatal injuries.
Someone should probably call Shadow, because out of all the Sonic cast he's the only one to suffer from multiple cases of amnesia. ... That is if they can slip Shadow into his pre-Colors era mindset without SEGA or any of the higher-ups noticing.
I hope that in the future IDW Shadow will become the same as his version from Archie.
@@DipperPines1986 Time will tell.
@@59rlmccormack Yep I'm still waiting IDW…
Something I don’t take likely is how they want to destroy everything. If it had just been sonic, Eggman and their supporting characters that I could see but for them to just walk into a town that sonic saved maybe like once and just destroy it for their own emotional drama! Ugh!
I'm pretty sure Surge meant specifically Sonic and friends, the Resistance, and the Eggman Empire. Anything else is probably trivial to her and Kit.
I knew Starline's overreliance on the hypno gauntlet would come back to bite him.
And that's why you always use code words as failsafes. Or, better yet, have them freeze or fall unconscious or something like that when they try to harm you directly or indirectly.
Also, Kit gave me some serious Miles (Anti-Tails from the Archie Sonic comics) vibes. Only that he's loyal to his green, spiky leader.
Anti-Tails is more like Star Scream.
@@justice8718
He's a Starscream, so much is true.
But unlike any version of the traitorous Decepticon Air Commander, he's much more calculating and doesn't show his emotions as much.
@@MarcMagma Prime Star Scream is stupidly intelligent and is 100% aware of every little thing around him. Megatron abused him because he feared him the most.
@@justice8718
While I love Prime Starscream (he's my favorite incarnation of the character) and while I will admit that he can be quite resourceful if need be, considering how many of his plans not only failed but also backfired, I would very much not call him "stupidly intelligent".
@@MarcMagma His plans failed by someone else's inconfidence and provided safety nets Megatron doesn't consider.
There's one thing that is constantly accurate about the Sonic series. They never stop emulating things from DBZ. When is the Sonic equivalent version of Cell showing up. Is Tails going to go Ssj2
I'll let you know when Surge breaks Shadows arm.
@@Shywhitefox ok
Aside from the trauma of their "training" I wonder if part of their unstable natures comes from the corrupted bio-data from Metal Sonic, Starline had wanted to try restoring it but Eggman had said no.
Yeah Starline dug his own grave so after the plan is done he next being killed by own creation.
I wonder was surge and kit were orphans that starline kidnapped him and turned them into a weapons
@@animezilla4486 Yeah hopefully they have more history on Surge and Kit including the origin story before becoming dangerous weapons.
Love how, with surge, they're taking the "angry, reckless, misunderstood bad-boy" cliché but with a female character. (who's story actually explains why she's all those things!!)
I've always said a gender swap version of this trope could be done well, and this character proves as a perfect example 😌
Way past excited for the fourth and final issue! 💙
I'm going to say this RN, Dr. Starline is a fu*king vile devil and I love it even far better than Black Doom, Mephiles, the Zetis and Infinite
I know it won't happen but If this results with Eggman losing a lot of portion of his empire, I hope this will be an opportunity to add Egg Bosses to IDW canon.
You know... if they're the Sonic equivalent of Android 17 and 18... makes you wonder if they'll decide Starline did finish his more robotic attempt as some sort of equivalent to Android 16. Since uh... doubt we'd ever get a Cell equivalent lol
Android 21 sonic character would be nice
Isn’t Neo Metal Sonic the Cell equivalent though?
@@algalax2 no?
Starline programs their personality, so why dose he hypnosis them to do the same thing?
9:50 I mean didn’t Ian flynn say that the two worlds thing might no longer apply anymore
I forgot the Broadcast
The Two Worlds is still canon
NinjaNate501 and by two worlds, they mostly mean humans live in continents, while Mobian live in islands
Man did sega just clarify that with their tails tubes lol
@@mcpics4448 No, it’s two SEPARATE worlds. If that were the case, where was G.U.N when Eggman unleashed the Metal Virus? Why are there no human Zombots? They live on two separate worlds, not continents.
NinjaNate501 because of the mandates impose on the comics, after all we know sega has exclusive made sure certain characters do not make appearance in the comic, how is this any difference
@@mcpics4448 This whole “Continent” thing is just a lame excuse to not use the 2 worlds even though it is basically confirmed to be canon.
I just realized something, Surge may be a love letter to the fan base.
She has the powers of Sonichu, the edgey punk-like appearence of Coldsteel the Hedgeheg, the base of Ashura the Hedgehog, the coolness of Scourge, an origin similar to Shadow which could be inspired by Terios, and a hairdo of Blaze which in itself could be a reference to Proto-Blaze. And yet despite all of that, she still works as a character somehow.
I am both amazed if that is the case and afraid. On one hand it shows the creativity of the writers and artists. On the other hand, who else might they merge together in the future in case if they decide to make another original character? Sunky, Sanic, or even S.N.T.?
Issue #3, a.k.a.:
It can't possibly get worse... can it?
*It got worse.*
Hehehe, things are getting together and i can’t wait to see how it all plays out.
Also, Kitsunami’s calm, collected and pretty cold attitude almost gives me the impression that he is one to lookout for the most out of the two.
ok this issue was really good honestly, surge and kit are breaking out of the shell I though they were going to be, starline being devilishly evil goodness, and even seeing the more creepier moments help. but yea starline you need to put in a password for these files, at this rate they might find your stash of you doing something embarrassing
I'm still on board with the whole "they're artificial lifeforms" theory. Surge only came to a conclusion based on what she saw in the recordings that she and Kit were once normal people. There's still not enough evidence to confirm that her inference is true. The fact that there are no recordings of their past equally supports both theories. There are no files of their past lives either because Starline didn't make any OR because they DON'T HAVE any past lives. Furthermore, we still don't know why Starline needed Tails' DNA; usually, though, that implies "clones". Plus, the inclusion of Shadow's picture really implies that they are artificial lifeforms because Shadow is one himself. Honestly, it could go either way; but until there has been a confirmation as to which is correct, I'm sticking to the theory that they are "clones" of Sonic and Tails, since that makes the most sense to me.
I'm willing to believe that they're intentionally going to keep their pasts vague.
I'm still mostly on board with the "their cyborgs" thing but Starline could have created them and then modified their bodies
@@ashuraomega7113 Things have changed; since I posted; apparently, Ian Flynn is a spoilsport. I liked the idea that @Big Image here presented; but Ian had to open his mouth and demystify it. -_- That being said, I DO like the idea that they actually ARE kids, like Sonic and friends. I mean, seriously! The other villains are either adults or hard to determine their age. In case of the latter, I mean the Deadly Six, minus Zik who is obviously elderly. It's about time this comic had a few villains who are in Sonic and friend's age range.
@@videogollumer yeah
“Putting machines inside life” makes no sense if they’re clones starline not having records of their past lives makes sense what the point of the keeping it if ur planning on changing their personalities.
Another fantastic review, I absolutely loved how you pointed out the comparison between Surge and Kit and Android 21, and 18. Only this time the Doctor isn't dead yet and the Best Anti Sonic duo is now on a warpath for revenge, they don't want to conquer the world, or take out the heroes and villains they wanna burn all to the ground, a very nice chance of pace in my option. Why do I feel like a Cell chargers going to suddenly show up at the end and hunt them down now?
At first, I was a bit thrown off by Surge on Kit prioritizing killing Sonic and Eggman, rather then trying to discover their past selves. But when I think about it more, it makes more sense. Starline’s brainwashing made Surge more aggressive(especially towards sonic), while Kit’s procedure made him more keen to follow Surge. Starline’s ‘programming’ has subconsciously shaped them to more credit then the two would admit.
So starline is dr gero from dragon ball. Wonder if he has a Cell in the works.
That would be awesome 👌
I'm looking forward to Issue 50, I just wish they didn't space out the Road to Issue 50 this much. It feels like an eternity between scraps of content.
Nice job making this review. The idea of Dr Starline becoming a bit like Eggman’s Archie self and turning out to be just as crazy as Archie Eggman never even occurred to me until now, especially since I felt that IDW Eggman was just as dangerous on the same level as SatAM Robotnik and the original Archie Robotnik while keeping true to the games. Ian once again shows incredible writing skills and we never forget how Dragon Ball has an influence on Sonic. Also, Ian said a while back in a Bumblekast that we don’t have to worry about the whole “two worlds” system anymore, indicating SEGA is finally getting rid of the idea. From here on out, its one world where Sonic & crew co exist with humans again even though we have yet to see humans. Moving on, I’m really looking forward to whats to come and I look forward to hearing your thoughts on it as it unfolds. Thank you, Megabeatman, for another entertaining review.
-James M
Really? I actually kinda liked the idea of Eggman being an alien invader to Sonic's world; but I guess, they needed to stop the complaining from many of the fans. Can you give me a link?
Funny thing, Ian actually answered how Starline would reaction to Archie Eggman.:
Q:Let’s pretend you were given the ok to write a crossover between IDW Sonic and Archie Sonic. How would you handle this?
If there were to be such a crossover, pre-reboot would definitely be off the table. Which is kind of too bad because Classic Snively and Starline would be a hoot. They've covered Starline and Thunderbolt in a previous bumblekast. Post reboot Sonic and IDW Sonic really aren't that different in terms of character motivation and background so he and the rest of the Sega cast could probably coexist. You could have Jewel getting pointers on how to run things from Sally. An awesome teamup between Whisper and Bunnie. They're just swapping wisps on the fly shooting various things as they run through the battlefield. Tangle falling hook, line, and sinker for Antoine's tales of his own bravery and exploits. Starline would probably enjoy Post-reboot Eggman more because with IDW they lean a little more into his game aspects especially his fallibility whereas Archie Eggman they leaned more heavily on making him a competent terrifying force. He would almost be the character that Starline wishes he was so there could be some fun there.
I really hope to see shadow in this arc as this is really similar to shadow in a way with how he was created and manipulated by not only his father figure but his biological parent as well. I always felt really bad for shadow :(
I also really like seeing surge with her hair down! she looks so cute
I see him coming into the arc at the end of or after issue #50 to deal with and/or talk to the imposters.
@@wendellstephens6311 Yeah me too I would really like to see that! It would be nice to see him try to talk to them
Agreed if there is anyone who would understand them more than anyone it would be Shadow. If done right he could help them direct their anger towards something more productive. Maybe even help them get back their memories, while they could possibly help him in finding his old self.
Y'know, everyone keeps referencing "Dr. Gero, Dr. Gero, Dr. Gero". Honestly, the "painful process" in the tubes reminds me more of Wolverine being put through the Weapon X procedure.
But what was happening to them in the tubes?
I was right about the emotional data coming back to haunt Starline.
I just hope we get more backstory on Surge and Kit. The duo are very interesting right now, but I feel bad for them. Hopefully, they get more appearances after Issue #50.
I feel bad for them as well starline is truly a monster
I saw starline in the first few logs for this issue and thought about that meme from incredibles. Is it a coincidence I think not
1 or 2? If 2, please don't share; I haven't seen it yet.
@@videogollumer incredibles 1
Come to think of it, why don't they hypnotize Starline into revealing their past to them? I guess it didn't occur to them.
Wow I didn't even think of that! 🤦🏽♀️ Good question!
Possibly because of their rewritten personalities. They may be aware of it but Surge still has an underlying hatred for sonic and Kit wants to do what Surge wants him to do. In her anger, Surge wants to take it out on everyone she thinks are to blame. This new information probably amplified her hate for sonic. Cuz in her eyes, it’s probably also his fault she’s like this. And Kit probably agreed. Plus, Starline said it’s irrelevant. It’s possible he doesn’t even remember
I’m focusing way too much on the stock family guy death pose
I was waiting for this
Well since we now know that Surge and Kit are very clear parallels of androids 17 and 18, with Starline being a parallel to Dr. Gero(from Dragon ball Z). I'm now wondering if we'll get a Android 16 parallel who'll team up with Surge and Kit later on and what they'll be like.
I hope this will give Shadow some airtime, if anyone could relate to them its certainly him. Wasnt he also a bioweapon with who couldnt remember himself?
Starline's fatal flaw is his vanity and hubris and I'm looking forward to what's in store.
Wow. Starline is stepping over boundaries way too many times for himself to count, but this was his most heinous act yet. I thougt that STC Robotnik was bad, but this guy is *worse.* Taking two random individuals who happen to be close enough species to Sonic and Tails, putting cybernetics in their systems and outright *deleting* their original personalities until no trace of it was left. Starline's a complete unsympathetic monster
What is it with the Sonic comics and electricity using villains that are somewhat crazy? (First was Lien Da than Thunderbolt and now Surge).
Surge and Kit are giving me Qrow and Becky vibes. Qrow and Becky are the main villians from the Neferious comics and games. The short story is that Qrow is a leading villian but doesn't know if he wants to be the bad guy and Becky is his evil secretary that keeps him on track.
Basically I can see Surge and Kit becoming neutral villians or neutral heroes down the line somewhere.
6:50 notice how exactly 33 issues after Starline has Tinker strapped to a table to get something, he does the same to Belle. Also this was 5 issues before Belle gets another emotional gut punch by finding Tinker’s note.
Kinda weird how Surge and Kit each wield powers better suited to taking out their partner's inspiration rather than their own.
So if Surge and Kit have that repurposed Metal Virus inside them, I wonder if they've also got that expiration date that all the Zombots had?
Welp for all we know after issue 50 they could end up becoming the metal virus 2.0
The War For The Empire Saga is right around the corner
Mhm
You know part of me wants to do this myself and the other part wants me to ask wakeangel2001 of making Surge and kit figures.
Ps this is the reason why you should always password your evil dialogues!
Starline wishes he was Archie Eggman.
Well Surge has lost it and Kit has become Evil/Anti Tails/Miles from the Archie comics
I really hope both Surge and Kit get redeemed in the end because those two did not deserve to go through what they went through.
so aparatle the two worlds thing was a mistraslation and it was more of a society thing like the world is split on the animal society and the human society
Does that mean that there are two central cities, one Human and one Mobian?
@@videogollumer maybe like we never see other Animals characthers in station Square
@@Jorno_arts Yeah, in the games; but the Station Square we've seen in this comic is the other way around. Mobians a plenty, but no Humans. Still, it's entirely possible for there to be two Central Cities, one in the United Federation and one in whatever country this comic largely takes place in.
This is nice
I just realized, Surge, green, sassy, and destructive. This is IDW’s version of Scourge isn’t it? Surge? Scourge? Can’t be a coincidence.
Then butterfly comes, lands on Surge, disintegrates her and the butterfly turns into Morpho Knight.
The thumbnail and surges face XDD
I hop at the end that go on the quest to find there lost past?
Eventually, they will get better, but for now I want to see them as antagonists.
What's the title of the new outro music?
Yes yes yes
9:55 Well now it’s been confirmed the two worlds rule no longer exists.
Starline should have given surge a electric whispon and wisp
holy hell man that was...damn bro holy hell.
Scoure would love to team up with surge
I want all sonic archie and idw comics
It’s Platypus season
Not really a fan of this issue, they're basically android 17 and 18, Kit being smart makes less sense now, hopefully they fix that soon enough.
How does it make LESS sense? He's partially cybernetic and if that plays no role well Starline's search for worthy replacements for Sonic and Tails probably meant he looked around for someone at least nearly brilliant.
me trying my best to not say "sus"
Yep 👍
Eggman maybe evil but Starline was more worse. I hope Sonic & Eggman eliminate Starline in issue #50.
Eggman treata metal sonic better i have to agree with you but i really do love this duo of Surge and Kit
Huh, guess I was wrong
We knew this was going to happen ever since he copied Belle's programming, and I hope Surge and Kit find themselves because Surge looked a lot better without the punk glowup.
So as I actually rather liked this issue would I like to start this comment with my problems with it so I can end on praising it.
So for starters lets go with my favorite past time when talking about the comics: "Starline is a idiot"
First of all Lets start with what I can only see as a contrivance. Starline having no logs about Surge and Kit before the beginning of there transformation. This is not an issue because I thing Starline would care about there previous self's but rather because he documents so much junk about him self that I seems unlikely at best that he had made no entry for finding and abducting the organic bases for his experiments which should at least include some hits like where Starline found them and why he could easily get away with these 2 in particular (especially as in the wake of the Zombot events the Chaotix started to take tones of mission person cases and he experienced him self when kidnapping Belle that these detectives skills aren't to be underestimated)
Than He had the opportunity to program ANYTHING into Kit and Surge during there recondition yet he for no apparently reason never decided to add obedience or the inability to act out violently or at least murderess against him. its was already more than careless of him to not write up proper back stories for them which lead to there identity crisis leading to this issue in the first place.(seriously Gerald Robotnik did better when rewriting Shadow's mind for him to in act his revenge plan)
And while not directly Starline's character but more so flawed logic so is it still tied to Starline's action so I count it for the "Starline is dumb" compilation. Starline wanted to make the Perfect little Imposters so what did he put into them because I can tell you not all elements well add up here:
- Mechanical replications of Sonic and Tails famose abilities as well as unique abilities for them each -> Okay that makes sense good...EXECPT for the part how he aquaired these data. You see Metal had to regain Sonic and Shadow's data during the opening storyilne so these data would certainly not be on any of Eggman's hard drives. But he also couldn't have gotten the data from Metal Sonic ether. Not only would he not have been able to get to Neo Metal Sonic even with the Warp Topaz without Neo Metal beating him given his superior everything but that is just the start of the issues with that idea as Neo Metal got Sonic's and especially Shadow's data very latte into the story at a point in which Starline already focused all of his attention towards turning Mister Tinker back into Dr. Eggman. And he also couldn't have gotten the data from Metal AFTER the Battle for Angle Island as Tails quite clearly stated removed all of Metal's weapon potantiual and therefor also all of the copied life form data. So Starline getting Shadow and Sonic's data doesn't work. As for Tails while he could get some data from the fur sample (assuming he also bio-enhanced the 2 as well) but certainly not all but so far at least doesn't it seem like there have any trait from Tails that would be to huge (tho I do wounder when Starline got that level of Bio Engineering from)
- Reprogrammed Metal Virus bots to give them super healing and resilient -> Wait what how did he do that? Silver and Sonic at the end magied every last Metal Virus atom away into the sun so he couldn't have studied it after the Metal Virus arc and Eggman directly told Starline that the way he made the Metal Virus is a secret it wasn't willing to teach Starline and all production facilities were on the Face Ship that crashed. So how did Starline even got the blue prints of the Metal Virus to modified it when it was made explicitly clear earlier that he doesn't know how it works?
- Belle's code to rewrite there personalities -> How does that add up at all??? Not only no matter how advanced it Belle still a Robot that uses binary for thinking Surge and Kit are organic creatures are quite a bit more complicated than that. Never mind that as this takes the games continuity for granted do we also know that literal souls are a scientific fact appearing ever since Sandopolis zones's ghost and only getting strengthened after that be it Gerald Robotnik stating he created an artificial soul for Shadow in Sonic Battle and Sonic using the energy of the souls of his defeated enemies to use Shara's and Caliburn's magic in the Story Book games.
So how can he even do that? Especially given that what is actually shown more so implies that he uses his Hypno gloves to over many seasons of brainwashing to slowly Morth there personalities to his liking.
You maybe see the issue here.
And finally the Hyno glove just annoys me to summarize its power level so far:
-Bad Guy's:Only works on weak minded individuals and works mostly under the same rules are real hypnotism.
-Chao Racing and Badnik Bases: Magical wonder device that can easily turn even someone like Rouge into a willing pawn and instill commands into her but the effects aren't permanent.
-Zeti Hunt: It was specifically noted that it never worked better than on Zommon who is stupid impling again that it won't work on strong minded individuals.
-Imposter Syndrom 1: In order to have a guarantied success with Surge and Kit did there have a build in weakness to them
Imposter Syndrom 3. Starline goes down in a single command used by someone using it for the first time.
So ether the comic wants to tell us Rouge and Starline have really weak willpower or there is at least one contradiction in here. Evan, Ian please don't introduced a hynoray give it super wage limitations and that use it how ever it fits for your plot to forcefully move forward please give such a powerful tool for the villain some real tangible limits and clearly explain how it works.
On that note not a complained or anything but still Starline being stupid. He things he is so unique with this plan when its just a straight downgrade from INFINITE given that he was Eggman's recent Bio-weapon that always stayed loyal and gave him the world for 6 month. (so I guess you could say Surge and Kit are just WEAK copies)
And now before I come to the positives here a few things I don't thing are actual bad even if there may appear that way at first.
- Surge going straight to let it all burn down. Well the story was quite open about the fact that Starline utterly destroyed these 2 personalities so Surge being a by trauma nearly ripped apart superficial copy of Sonic (that really shows how little Starline understands Sonic) does it make sense that her decision making wouldn't always be reasonable so her making such a huge leap while in an emotional uproar makes sense for her as a character. More so Kit is by his conditioning forced to go along with what ever Surge want so he will no matter what his own better judgment may say go along with Surges insane plans and do his best to make them work the best for her .
-Starline falling for the trick at the end. While yes it was never in his plan I thing I made it pretty clear that Starline is as dumb as a sack of rocks so of cause he gets easily gas lighted by them as long as there frame it as his own will.
-The Artwork certainly took a hit at times (one one panel is Kits hair not properly colored in and in a different is the early sketch of Surge's mouth still clearly visible over the finished artwork (especially silly as it happened in one of the panels of her having an emotional break down) but while its annoying its not something that breaks the story or is to distracting. So I give it a pass.
- Starline's logs do seem to get the best of him but this is actually only the second time there did and he never learned that Mimic hacked into his logs back in Bad Guys and so know about his attempted betray so it makes sense that Starline wouldn't have learned from Bad Guys and continued to make his videos.
So now that I got all of the hard and bad stuff out of the way lets talk about the good parts.
So Surge and Kits characters are really good. There are dynamic, clearly fallow from what there backstory is and aren't as one dimensional as the first issue implied.
Hurry for Ian actually accelerating Surge and Kit discovering the truth without resetting it imminently not only do I not like it when stories do this but the writer here in particular has a tendency for stretching things out for to long so good to see we are on are way with a good pacing.
The fight scene is actually rather nice and I do like how all characters have clear and unique ways to fight.
Despite the few mistakes is the artwork over all still really good and especially the facial expressions do a lot to sell the emotions of the characters.
The story sets up a lot of rather interesting ideas especially concerning Surge and Kit and there potential background.
Starline being extra salty about Metal Sonic in his first post is absolutely hilarious.
I do like the fact that Starline didn't just had to push one button for instead personality alteration but actually had to over multiple seasons rewrite there minds.
So for the ending just 1 question that remains open. As Starline didn't move his project over to organic units prior to Bad Guys conclusion what was in his test tubes initially?
"I seems unlikely at best that he had made no entry for finding and abducting the organic bases for his experiments which should at least include some hits like where Starline found them and why he could easily get away with these 2 in particular" why, so he can try again in case surge and kit die?
because then it wouldn't be authentic man, sonic doesn't do obedience and schit/s.
"(seriously Gerald Robotnik did better when rewriting Shadow's mind for him to in act his revenge plan)" to be fair, gerald didn't have to give shadow a new backstory, he just altered maria's final wish......unless i got this detail wrong for several years along with everyone else.
but yea, starline could've just made up some backstory for them (i suggest convicts like what surge said).
i actually like the explanation for how starline got a sample from sonic (and shadow), like, yea, he had tails' fur, but how'd he replicate sonic? so, yea.
but anyway, "but that is just the start of the issues with that idea as Neo Metal got Sonic's and especially Shadow's data very latte into the story at a point in which Starline already focused all of his attention towards turning Mister Tinker back into Dr. Eggman." i mean, he was still an eggman fanboy at the time, so it's not farfetched to think he'd like to preserve as much data metal sonic has just in case eggman might need it for later.
"And he also couldn't have gotten the data from Metal AFTER the Battle for Angle Island as Tails quite clearly stated removed all of Metal's weapon potantiual and therefor also all of the copied life form data." ah, but you see ryno, shadow's chaos powers (barring that one chaos spear that one time) are completely useless in this continuity, and sonic didn't showcase any of his abilities other than spin-attacking in this continuity, so metal didn't learn anything, as such tails kept in metal's bio-data because it couldn't possibly pose a threat to anybody/s.
i like the incorporation of a previous story element, but i do find this unnecessary, given how sonic and friends already seem to have super healing and resilience, unless ian is trying to ignore that, in which case, eh.
"Wait what how did he do that? Silver and Sonic at the end magied every last Metal Virus atom away into the sun" he kept a small vial of it in his back-pocket, hence why sonic and silver couldn't find it, especially after starline was thrown out the topaz portal.
alternatively, starline payed off silver age superman to give him the blueprints, and you can't use the alan moore card, this was during the metal virus, it's perfectly in continuity.
"- Belle's code to rewrite there personalities -> How does that add up at all???" welp, guess that's your "they have robotic brains." assumption thrown out the window in this issue.
although, surge did say they are cyborgs, so maybe they still have some cybernetic implant in their brains or something, or maybe it has something to do with the modified metal virus inside them?
"please give such a powerful tool for the villain some real tangible limits and clearly explain how it works." HAH! explaining things properly and giving them proper limitations so they're not OP and poorly written, in the sonic franchise, you're funny.
"(so I guess you could say Surge and Kit are just WEAK copies)" no, no, that's only infinite's character trait.
"(one one panel is Kits hair not properly colored in and in a different is the early sketch of Surge's mouth still clearly visible over the finished artwork (especially silly as it happened in one of the panels of her having an emotional break down)" i think i found the kit one (when he's on the seat getting hypnotized), but i can't seem to find the surge one.
but anyway, i like how one of the panels has surge doing the "family guy death pose.", the sequence of surge and kit's tests in general is just great (and the rest of the art).
overall, good issue.
"So for the ending just 1 question that remains open. As Starline didn't move his project over to organic units prior to Bad Guys conclusion what was in his test tubes initially?" it was still surge and kit, but it was part of an unrelated project to see how he can weaponize baja blast before settling on clones.
@@alimowla3204
Well no more so because Starline uses his logs pretty much as a diary (if Surge isn't completely over-reacting does he even log his breakfast after all) so him going out finding the "perfect" candidates for his experiments and his "action packed" and through his "Galaxy brain" guided kidnapping is totally something that Starline based on the person he is and the other thing we know about his logs would have totally included (you know something like this:" Today I was able to locate the first specimen for my soon to be perfect enforces a green tenrec kidnapping her was way to easy living alone on the mountains and I guess her species is close enough I mean there are also called "fake hedgehogs" after all". That he had nothing of the like really is a contrivance.
Okay so I guess you could get away with Surge but what about Kit he is based on Starline actually thinking Tails is just a mindless pawn that obeys everything Sonic does without any thoughts on his own. So it totally fit there.
Well Gerald also had to program in the whole revenge plan with how to hack the arcs PC's, to incorporate his execution video if it still exist and the need to gather all emeralds for the maximum effect.
Starline could have saved so much time programming all the knowledge he wanted them to have about there bodies, fighting capabilities and plans directly into there brains.
And while there would need a bit more rewriting than Shadow its not that much more just very basic reason for there being there like:
Kit was ones saved by Surge and ever since is fallowing her bidding out of the feeling of owning it to his savior, Surge was ones nearly killed by Sonic's recklessness and hates him ever since and Starline gave her the opportunity to take revenge and became the real hero while Kit fallowed blindly as to him his life belongs to Surge.
There super basic backstory that should be enough to stop them questioning things for a while.
See I do like how there try to use continuity to explain how Starline got the data but the way it was done just isn't all that great. Like with Metal I after all named even that even if Starline decided to take some time off restoring Eggman to get Metal's data with out the speed core would he have no possible way to get to Metal Sonic's data and escaping even with the warp Topaz. Even base metal could stop him from doing that as seen during the Metal Virus arc so what change does he has against Neo Metal Sonic.
That's nice and all except for the part where you forgot that unlike Emerl does Metal not copy moves but life form data meaning he got all of Shadow's edge which would give everyone close to him paper cuts so that's clearly to dangerous to be left installed./s
Ian already wrote Sonic as having a better immune system than Shadow and that the best way to go against a viral infection is running really really fast. I think its save to say that he doesn't really seem to care about the actual ways these characters bodies are suppose to work.
My dude we established already that Super Silver is a atom level global super sense for Metal Virus particles. This is such an authorial ass pull not even Silver Age Superman can hope to pull this kind of contrive BS out of his super butt cheeks.
SO there is literally no way Starline could have gotten his hands on it no matter what he tried.
Seems like it. I should have known Ian wouldn't care enough about logic. Oh and I did hear there backstory was actually changed based on a suggestion by Sega so I guess perhaps that's why some of these things don't line up to well just wanted to throw that one out there.
Come on dude after the massive backslash to the ill defined Phantom Ruby could I at least have hoped for betterment.
I wish I could link you to the direct panels but UA-cam you know.
So just letting you know I didn't forget about the Star Wars comment but its so long so I will answer to it when I fell like it I hope that is okay with you.
Also The new Sonic Movie trailer is pure hype.
@@rynobehnke8289
hmm, okay, maybe he did record his thoughts and stuff, but it's on a separate computer or whatever, just in case surge and kit get curious about their past and start snooping?
either that, or he was running out of space, so he deleted the log about surge and kit's pasts to make room for his breakfast, lunch and dinner logs.
"and I guess her species is close enough I mean there are also called "fake hedgehogs" after all"" man, starline really IS a gamer.
yes, but kit is too much of a surge symp to obey his programming.
he could've done that, but the technology gerald used on shadow is fifty years old, and starline only wants to use his gaming set for this stuff, not ancient G.U.N computers/s.
nice fake backstory for surge and kit by the way.
i was more so saying he might've got the data after mr tinker was already gone, uuuunless the bio-data is exclusive to neo metal sonic and there's absolutely zero traces of it in normal metal, in which case, i don't know.
ah, but you see, normal metal can't speak, so his edge can't reach people properly/s.
"I think its save to say that he doesn't really seem to care about the actual ways these characters bodies are suppose to work." why yes, that's my job/s.
okay, so i just checked the issue 29 comments, no, it was silver age superman who gave silver his plot-vision, we agreed on that, can't back-pedal.
"Oh and I did hear there backstory was actually changed based on a suggestion by Sega so I guess perhaps that's why some of these things don't line up to well just wanted to throw that one out there.".................goddam it.
there was also a massive backlash for schitty stories with 06, and we still have schitty stories, stop having expectations dam you!
pain.
how fuccing dare you have a life outside of replying to my overly-long comments!/s.
i kid, i kid, i myself have been procrastinating a little with my Revenge of the sith comment (i wrote up to the part where palpatine names anakin darth vader, which is pretty much half the movie), so yea, in all honesty though, i say we put the star wars discussion on hold until mid april, speaking of which, can you give me a quick list of all the two-world theory's problems? it's important information.
haven't seen the second trailer for movie 2 yet, but, in anticipation for movie 2, i've decided to put my star wars binge on hold so i can watch the first film (on top of the procrastination), which should give us something to talk about for a bit.
@@alimowla3204
IF he was actually concerned about that would he certainly have moved ALL videos about them to another Computer and not just the 2 about there presumed kidnapping.
And you know I would have properly preferred if Starline said he overwrote the logs with something else as in that case it both shows how little he cares for them as individuals but also acknowledges that its totally in his character to make a log about the day he kidnapped them.
But the level of "simp" was entirely in Starline's control he totally could have made Kit just as much a simp for him as for Surge.
Good joke "his" gaming setup. More like the awesome gaming setup he stole from a real pro gamer named Dr. Eggman.
Thanks
Well given that Metal had to regain the data in IDW for Sonic and Shadow despite originally getting them in Heroes already but just like in Heroes he rewarded back to base form after his defeat would everything point towards that Metal should have lost the Bio-data even more so as Tails said he removed everything that he could use as a weapon.
Well he still as fingers so he could still hurt a lot of people of Twitter dot com./s
Just thinking about how the editors keep letting him get away with this is pain.
Well damn it beaten by continuity. Than again can't I argue I should be allowed to be as inconsistent as the comic is?/s
Tho that does open the question can Silver Age Superman out BS Silver Age Superman?
To be fair we don't actually know what Ian's original plan was so it could be that Sega made a good thing here.
Well at least stories are now shitty for different reasons./s
Well than lets put Star Wars on ice for a moment until we are done with the Sonic Movies its not like the war of the stars is gonna run away from us.
Can't wait for the Movie talk and the new trailer is pretty great.
I will send you a copy paste of a list I did concerning the 2 Worlds in the past soon-ish.
@@alimowla3204
So here is my copy paste. there are properly more but I hope this is enough for the start.
So now where we reach the part where you your self has to admit that thsi 2 worlds Idea brings problems with it let me just quickly name over a dozen problems the 2 Worlds bring with it okay
(but before this a little bit more ranting on Forces you see in the prequel comics is Angle Island flying but here is the thing IT SHOULD'T FLY ANYMORE BECAUSE AFTER IT CRASHED AT THE START OF THE SUPER SONIC STORY IN SA1 DID IT NEVER LIFT UP AGAIN BECAUSE THE ONLY REASON IT WAS FLYING NAMELY TO PREVENT CHAOS FROM BEING RELEASED AS STATED IN THE OFFICIAL JAPANESE SONIC ADVENTURE 1 MANUAL WE EVEN SAW THE DAMN ISLAND STILL GROUNDED IN THE SAME WORLD AS SA2 AND SHADOW THE HEDGEHOG IN SONIC BATTLE OR WHAT DID YOU THROUGH WHERE HOLY SUMMIT WAS LOCATED AT!)
1)Lets start with something minor a Kid in the Japanse version of SA1 mentioned Sonic saving Angle Island and Little Planet from Dr Eggman so how would he know about this if S3&k and CD happened on another plant (this is beside Eggman's on screen transition from his Classic to his modern design in Pocked adventure also one of the strongest counter points against Classic being from a different dimension)
2)In Sonic Advance 3 did Eggman split the planet into 7 peaces and of this peaces is one Central City(Route 99) and another one is South Island(Sunset Hill)
3)Gerald Being able to recreate the shrine of the Master emerald while the Master Emerald shrine supposedly being on a different planet in a different dimension (and no Gerald being able to just look into other worlds isn't saving you here the only reason he did know about the Ifrit was because the gateway to its dimension was located on an old hunted mansion and he had found a Book about Ifite which at the start of Sonic Rivals 2 was in the hands of Eggman Nega.)
4)If our Heroes can just casually travel between dimensions than why was it such a major plot point in Sonic Rush Adventure that traveling back to there world is going to be a problem for Sonic and Tails(it also completly invalidates the entire sadness of the end because Sonic and Tails could using this logic just come visiting when ever there want to.)
5)What is Shadow doing on the Animal world in like ever? He not only is Working for GUN but he also swore to protect Earth so why should he abandoned it.
6)How could Gerald know about Chaos to make his copies
7)On which world did the Babylonians crash land Given that the world is the unearthly futuristic seen of games like Heroes and Forces but the Opening of Riders Zero Gravity making it very clear that GUN is a major player so how does any of this work?
Its almost like the futurist cities are suppose to exist in the same world as the more grounded ones from the Adventure games similar to how old cities from the 18th and older still exist and are even preserved till this day.
8)Why does no one ever ask any question about how Anthros can exist on the Human world and how humans can exist on the Animal world (especially given that old manuals stats that Sonic and Eggman did know each other even before Sonic 1)
9)How would common people like Big, Cream and Amy travel between world I mean no one even know about Big before SA1, Cream was seen in Station square in SADX despite her home as seen in Advance 3 is on South Islands Green hill zone and wouldn't come to know any of our main Heroes before SAdv2 and Sonic and Tails didn't take Amy even remotely serious before Sonic Heroes So really how would people like them get to the human world and back (especially Big who was even a house there) and should dimension travel be this common than why don't we see more tourist on the opposite worlds I mean if we want to take Unleashed serious did lot of people even during a world breaking disaster travel the whole world.
10)How can the Green Hill like Rock formations just exist in Emerald City with is on the outskirts of Central City the capital of the United Federation as we learned in Shadow the hedgehog (I mean wasn't said human world not suppose to be realistic)
11)Green Hill zone in Sonic Adventure 2 do I really have to say more its the exact Green Hill zone from Sonic the Hedghog 1 (and by the way that its before prison island isn't a problem given that South Island is according to the Sonic 1 manual a moving Island)
12)How and Why did Eggman go to the animal world in the first place (let alone even found out it existed)
13)How could the echidnas Exist on the Human world and we know the Mystic ruin have to be on the Human world because the train station there seams to already be pretty old and its soil is already tested to the point were researchers could conclude that its really similar to the one from the mountain that appeared over night(The Fallen Angle Island)
14)And to not end it on 13 What is up with the Chao there are popular enough to get there own Movie series and SA1's strategy guide even mentioned that its thanks to there cuteness that let humans build Chao Gardens for them is the only reason there didn't go extinct after the big Chao massacre through the Echidnas(this would given the Mystic ruins chao garden further my point in 13) but are obviously also on Sonic World with Cream having one as a pet/Friend and them beign present on places like Sunset hill
15)In Sonic Rush did Eggman and Eggman Nega take over a GUN ship armada and use it against sonic (in the level them self do you even fight GUN Robots and not Eggman Robots like in the rest of the game) and yet this is the same world Blazes world is universal liked too which not only further hurts your mirror world theory but only hard codes Sonic and Co to natural live on the same world as the GUN is active in
(16)) And a 16 Point that is just a way not IF we where to count Sonic Chronicles the Dark Brotherhood would this make things even more messy given than Green hill there is just one boot ride far away from Central City
I would like these two to join Shadow in the future and form a new "team Dark" or team "Anger management"
First
Don't know why I just don't like surge I mean I don't hate her but she look like a knockoff version of Sonic but I don't hate her all right
7:31 That's one of the reasons why I HATE how they rebooted Starline.
I actually liked him as a villain, he HAD potential.
Those two knock offs don't, and no matter what they do to Starline, bring his memories back or... He's gone. Either way it's boring and kills the hype. I wanted to see 7:31 Starline and Eggman too. I didn't want to see YET ANOTHER EDGY OC VILLAINS. I was fed up with Infinite already, no need for knockoffs of him
This was a complete and utterly disappointment to me. Why were they set up to be clones when in the end, they were never clones to begin with?!
They never set up them being clones
People assume as them as such, don’t be disappointed when the writer didn’t show you the whole picture of the story
Everyone just assumed they were clones, never once did any official word claim that they were. That was all the news outlets.
Cry about it
Starline is the Professor Hojo of the Sonic world. I would not be surprised if Surge and Kit go the Sephiroth way.