What is THIS?! Fiberglass Core Repair Tips and Tricks - E005
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- Опубліковано 30 тра 2023
- I made an interesting discovery as I began the fiberglass core repair aboard Antidote, my 1989 Liberty 458 project boat!
Repairing Fiberglass Core is a job that arises often with these old boats from the 70's, 80's, and 90's... Many of these boats used wooden core material and many of them have failed as they pass 3 decades in service...
Join us for a look at some of the tips and tricks that will help if you plan to take a look at the fiberglass, plywood, or balsa decks on you boat.
Recommended Playlists:
Watch our journey from the very beginning!
• Restoring the Antidote.
Recommended playlist for other AWESOME boat refits:
• I QUIT! … to fix up an...
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Email: Find this in the "About" Section on my channel
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Helpful Products in this video:
-Foam Kneeling Pad: amzn.to/45wsVlc
-Fein Composite Oscillating Blade: amzn.to/3OO5EW1
UA-cam Video URL: • What is THIS?! Fiberg...
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Video hashtags:
#livingforsail #boatwork #sailboatrefit
What would you rather find inside your old boat decks? Plywood patchwork, end grain balsa, or something else entirely??
foam or gold! ;)
@@robertenglund89 Haha! Yeah, me too...
If I’m doing a rebuild, I’m not too fussed what the core is. However the mushier the better!.
@@bubbleobill267 right! Haha. That’s a great way to look at it 😂👍🙌
Whichever is easier to remove. Probably balsa.
Thank goodness I found this channel before starting my refit
I’m glad that you’re enjoying the videos! Welcome aboard and all the best with your refit. 🙏👍🙌
Just found your channel, I'm hooked.
Thanks for letting me know. I hope that you enjoy the story so far! Cheers. 🙏🙌👍
Looking at restoring my own boat soon. You have good videos and i like that you show how to do the job. Not just that your doing it.
Thank you! 🙏 I appreciate that. I’m glad that you’ve found some of them to be helpful!
Nice Work. Great video. It is obvious that you take care in not just your work on the boat but in the production of your videos. Well done.
Thank you! 🙏 I really appreciate that. Cheers!
Jon, you’re quickly becoming one of my favorites, buddy! I was giddy with excitement when you took the time to explain the four cutting tool choices and the pros and cons of each. And also what was going on with the different oscillating tool saws. And the benefits of the impact drill and the issues with the different screwdriver bits. Seriously dude. I’m salivating. You’re killing this UA-cam thing. And the outtakes🤣🤣🤣. Will you be my neighbor?
I’m glad you enjoyed the educational bits. I had fun with those sections. Welcome to the Channel Tim!
🙏
Hi there. Sorry I didn't catch your name. You don't mention it much. You should when you introduce yourself at the beginning of each episode. What do I know. LOL. Thank you so much for your videos. I'm in the same stage in life you were in when you decided to go on this voyage. I congratulate you for the great choice in vessel that you made (regardless of the things that need fixing. You go much deeper than I can) and for having the courage to do it. I'm on the same boat. Not your boat but I decided one day that only sailing around the world would satisfy my needs. So I bought A TAYANA 37' FOR $5000 that need a lot of work but not much than yours. I'm in the process of bringing her home at the moment. I was going to take her to Rio Dulce in Guatemala to get the work done but decided that I need a closer bond with the boat. I dropped out without abandoning my company. I asked my wife to help me realize it and it seems that she is on board as far as helping me out while I'm gone or to join me. Don't know yet.
I just wanted to thank you for your high quality videos. They are great and you are too with how handy you are. I'm nowhere near that but I grew up around boats and I'm hoping for the best. I'll share these videos. They are very valuable. I've learned so much from them. Thanks again brother. God bless you on your journey and I'm sure you will be fine.
Hi. Thank you for the encouragement and congratulations on starting your own journey! All of the best to you on that!! The Tayana 37 is a top notch boat from one of my favorite yacht designers!
Cheers! -Jon 😉🙏👍🙌
For cutting glass I used angle grinder with stone diamond cutting disc. More messy, but fast and the disc will last long.
That would certainly get the job done quickly! A blade like that would also last a long time. Since dust is my biggest concern I decided to look for another way...
I agree,also a diamond grinding disc is great like used on concrete to grind with.not for cutting grinding 😮
If you hold the vacuum directly behind the angle grinder blade it throws the dust straight into the vacuum and collects id say 95 percent of the dust 👌
just found your channel. binged watched all the vids. every time you call "Antedote" i hear the Dire Straits "One World" song
Hi. Welcome aboard! Glad to have you here, and all caught up apparently! 👍🙏🙌.
Enjoyed the episode. I enjoy the joking around that you do, too. The lightsaber was cool. :)
😂 thanks Ted! It was fun to make this one.
Great show brother 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
Thank you! 🙏
You have a lot of glass work in your future! git er done!
🙌
Good work ❤
Thank you! 🙏
Get some scrapper blades for the oscillating tool. I liked it for core removal in certain situations.
That thought crossed my mind. Thanks for that tip. I’ll see how it goes. Cheers! 👍🙌
great work, really need to do the whole deck with a foam core. Really like how dedicated you are, keep up the great work and don't get discouraged. I am sure you have watched Mads deck replacement.
Hi Steven. Thank you for the encouragement!! 🙏. Yes, I am a fan of Mad’s work for sure! 👍
Plywood!!! or Parquet Flooring??? I had no idea a core could be put together primarily with glue. Good work on getting into this humungus job.
If you squint it’s hard to tell the difference! Thanks for watching. 🙏👍
Thank you so much for these videos. I have undertaken a similar project... Now got a 41 foot long keeled blue water yacht in the backyard... Except I'm not an engineer and there is no interior in this one. I got a ton of material with the boat... But I'm not a carpenter either. So a long way to go! But I'll get there. Watching you is helpful!
Thanks for watching! You will be a carpenter by the time this is all over !! 😉👍🙌. It sounds like a great project. I wish you the best of luck
With it.
somebody had a ton of scraps left over and decided to "use them up" - for ease, I would use marine plywood. It's a bit heavier than balsa but you can template and cut to fit the area and simply epoxy into place and use weights to hold it down while curing. Dremel had an awesome small high speed compact saws that would be good to cut through the glass. I own one and love it for this kind of work.
Thanks Tim for the input. I think I’ve seen the dremel saw that you mentioned 🤔. I’ll have to give it a try sometime. Cheers!
Many of the Asian boat builders did the same thing for a core.. it's not plywood but scrap pieces of mahogany that are laid out and resin poured in to fill the voids and make it solid.. I didn't know that they did such things but was reading online about how it was done quite often
great video! you clearly know what could be wrong and how to fix it. I'm interested in how you keep the deck shape/do the support blocking. It's all doable, just messy and costly. thanks for having me along for the ride!
Hi. Thanks for the interest in our project! I appreciate that!! 🙏. Stay tuned for more deck work and how we brace the structure. I think we will have lots of that type of work in our future!! 😂👍🙌
I like your videos.
Found your videos today and I really like them 👍🏼
Thanks for sharing.🙏
Thank a lot. I appreciate the feedback. Cheers! 👍🙌🙏
Nice clean job well done hopefully it will dry out nicely
Thank you. Here’s hoping!
Been anxiously waiting for "the next video"! Great job!!! Even had me laughing 😂😂😂
Seems like when you dig in a little, you find you have to dig more. Good job!!! Loved it...
Hi Peter! I'm glad that you enjoyed it. At this time I am focused on making an engaging video and it might take a bit of practice for me to hit the weekly schedule. I'm having fun though and the positive feedback helps. Thanks for hanging in there!! ... You are correct though... It's a bit like pulling a thread on a sweater!
Just discovered these oscillating tools myself, awesome things!! That wet ply core versus balsa would have totally screwed the boat’s righting moment!? Another great video though.⚓️👍🇬🇧😎
Thanks John! I agree. The wet ply was trouble! It will be good to get some of that extra weight off of the top. Thanks for watching! 🙏🙌
I used to have your sickness ( Glutton for punishment) but now I prefer to watch others who have not gotten over IT yet 😂 Great video for those who want to become ill. I was just dreaming of those sleepless nights of wet cores and fiberglass pricklys . Oh no am I about to fall off the wagon again and buy another boat ? 😮
Haha! Yeah, my recovery will take a while 😉.
it costs more than balsa but a waterproof high density foam will future proof the boat like what sailing magic carpet have done
Hi Jim. Thanks for the input. I appreciate that a lot. I agree that a plan to future proof is in order. I think this is a “once is enough” experience in life 😳😂.
Aladino has actually been in touch with a few suggestions. What a great community we have here! 🙌
I do enjoy your videos, you don't act like you know how to do it and your way is the only way nor do you go and start something by tearing things apart resulting in a look of you turned a animal loose to do the job.. great job and thanks for sharing
I appreciate that. I’m trying to keep people involved in my thought process as “not a pro boat builder” but someone that tries to get good counsel before completing a project. Cheers!
@@livingforsail great content and keep the videos coming..I subscribed
@@bendaves77 Thank you! 🙏 glad to have you aboard and participating in the discussion!
Great work on these videos.
I just discovered your channel so I’m playing catch-up and the answer to my concern may already have been revealed in a subsequent episode. Anyway, how about the bulwark core? If it is compromised you will have to replace it, which means that the inside glass will have to be removed. Investigate this before you proceed with a lot of detail work that may be wasted in the end. Your cap rail was screwed into the bulwark which indicates that you have a plywood core there as well.
Keep watching 😉. We are getting into the bulwarks in the recent episodes. 🙌
Thanks for the support!!🙏
It might of been a previous repair being that the manufacturer stated that it had a balsom core not a plywood core.
I hadn’t even thought of that… it looks like I’m the first one in there but it’s a possibility for sure! 👍👍
From what I can tell, our deck core is scrap balsa squares. But after however-many-years of water leaks, it comes out as gooey wet sawdust.
Your method and tool tips are exceptional!! I cannot thank you enough!
No doubt this will come up soon in your videos, but I’d love to get your take on the ideal replacement for your core. I imagine a new teak was considered part of a deck’s compression strength and added an insulation factor. Maybe that’s why the designers considered scrap plywood to be a sufficient filler for the deck? If so, what do you think will be the best core material might be to compensate?
Thanks again for sharing and please keep it up. Your engineering/educational approach is refreshing!!!
Hi Shawn, thanks for sticking around for another video. I really appreciate your support for the channel and the work I'm doing. 🙏🙏🙏
I will be comparing some different core options in an upcoming video. I am just waiting for some samples from a few suppliers to show off to the camera. Hopefully in a couple of weeks.
In general, plywood or balsa are really fine if they are properly sealed with no opportunity for water to leak in but since that is VERY difficult to be 100% certain about, I would be leaning towards foam for the majority of the structure (divinycell or corecell as examples). In areas where there will be high loads (pad-eyes, windlass, turning blocks) you will want something that can handle more compressive strength (Plywood, Coosa, solid glass would be some options). Any through hole should be properly prepared by over drilling the hole and then plugging with thickened epoxy before drilling to the correct size. I will cover all of this soon, but that get's you started.
Thanks again!!🙏🙏
Oh, and the teak is probably not considered to be a structural component when they designed the lamination schedule for the decks (that is a good question for a yacht designer... I have one that will be stopping by in an upcoming video so we can ask him). It would definitely make the deck more stiff, but many were sold without teak and I had molded non-skid under mine which would indicate that it was designed to work without it. As for insulation, Teak, and all hardwoods are terrible insulators (~R1 or less - fiberglass insulation in your home is more like R3.7). I have heard anecdotally that a teak boat can be cooler. I have also heard the opposite... Since the teak is darker it will absorb more heat than a white deck so I have a hard time believing that a teak boat is cooler inside...
Any other opinions out there???
I think your plan to diversify core material between standard and compressed loads is brilliant!! Gotta admit…I would not have thought of that. Now that you mention it, I think your spot on! I suspect the Coosa and Ply (Marine grade with plenty of penetrating epoxy to seal) are the best options for strength; but especially for maintaining long-term structural integrity if/when leaks occur. From the sheering, torquing, and dragging forces that the rigging will put the boat through, leaks will probably be inevitable. Eventually I have to forward some pics of our boat, Abacus. Kids, wife, and I lived aboard her in CA for about 7yrs!!
The teak on the old girl does a great job of collecting heat on warm sunny days. Almost impossible to stand on in bare feet;). So I have to concur that teak is a crappy insulator.
Eager for the next video!! 🙏
@@user-lb1fe9to9g Shawn, I have my email address in the video description. Let’s see those pics of Abacus!
G,day John, if you need some inspiration for this task Mads ,on Athena re did his deck pretty similar project, pretty sure he replaced the core with epoxy coated.marine ply..Old Waldo seems pretty chilled mate..what you been feeding him hahaha
Hey Andrew. Thanks for checking in. Yes, Mads has done some AMAZING work over the years and was/is a huge inspiration for me. I should go back and re watch some of his videos :)
And yeah, Wowldo doesn’t say much unless I forget to wear my respirator working with solvents. Then again, it might just all be in my head…
Cheers!
@@livingforsail my pleasure John ..loved the light sabre too
@@andrewmoylan6295 haha! Thanks Andrew. I’m not sure what I ate that morning to give me the idea but it was fun 🙂 🙏🙌
@@livingforsail hahaha all good;)
Hull penetrations are the scourge of cored decks - shrouds, stanchions, deck fittings are just a few among the usual suspects as I’m sure you know. I’m amazed you say they didn’t seal them well. Frankly that’s just poor workmanship and bound to failure from day 1. And of course ply is just a cheap alternative to end grain balsa, which as a new buyer you’re unlikely to find out they’ve done a switcheroo for. But 50 years later someone else does… Doh! 😕
As you’ve probably worked out by now, problems on old boats are, with rare exception, bigger than they first appear. I hope the rest of the deck is/was not as bad. Fingers crossed. Good luck.
I think you've summed it up pretty well there! I am pretty sure though that I have quite a bit of bad core in my future... Thanks for the well wishes though :)
@@livingforsail btw in New Zealand we call reciprocating saws (saws all), Sabre saws. Next time I’m at the hardware store I’ll have to check if they have the “light” model in stock. Very handy! But I bet they chew through the batteries. Keep up the good work.
@@robinhodgkinson that’s what my father calls them too. 🤔.
The good thing about balsa is that the grain is vertical, meaning it theoretically wouldn't deep laterally (i.e., wetness more contained). How
That was my understanding also. I’ve been told though that water can sometimes move unpredictably under the laminate and look like an ant colony when you eventually pull it up.
.. do you not think the rot would extend up the bulwark. Or is the bulwark not cored, Just ask because the bulwark looks quite wide beside where you are working .... great video ... thx for the share .. as always .. never stop dreaming, just dream bigger .. have fun be safe, save our oceans .....
Honestly I am scared to find out what is in there!! Ha. It will be an adventure in the future though. Thanks for watching and the feedback. It is highly appreciated!
@@livingforsail ..... to be quite honest am wondering what would be the best cuts to make on the bulwark, port to starboard so not to disturb the curvature from the bulwark to the deck. Sure am interested to see hoe this is tackled. Personally not a fan of teak decks and the headaches that may arise. Teak is for trim. ..thx for your reply .... make it an exceptional week ....
Thanks Peter. I hope you have a great week too! Stay tuned about the bulwarks. I will keep thinking about that one…
If it's wet it's trash balsa or ply. Water follows wood grain so ply carries more water farther. So it's time to watch Mads on Sail Life
Thanks Robert!
It's almost like, while cutting and there's no dust...means it's very wet down below
Yes. That was certainly the case… quite wet. 🤦♂️
Great video! Thanks! Could you replace the core with foam?
Thank you Francis! I could use foam in the areas where I don't have any compressive loads (for example I wouldn't want foam under the windlass). I am looking at a few options. The reality is that if they would have sealed all of the through deck penetrations and NOT put thousands of screws into the deck for the teak, the plywood might still be working all these years later...
I love the humor!!! You are gonna need a LOT of it!!! Keep it up👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
@@peterc.anderson1840 Haha! Thanks!!
@@livingforsail thanks for your reply! I understand the need for strength around the windlass! It’s amazing that so many manufacturers screwed on the teak (Hallberg Rassy!!) with literally thousands of screws which potentially let in water!!
I’m confident that you’ll find a good solution to the deck core problem!
@@francismontocchio9910 it is a bit crazy. I’m sure there were a few workers back then thinking… this seems like a bad idea… oh well.
You can let the new glass lap up the sides,maybe better.Remove a certain amount then rebuild and move on to rebuilding more.This will keep the original shape as you go.Go with the diamond blade and the high speed side grinder not that hard to control with a little use.Suit up and vacuum up the dust🥴
I’ve been thinking about maybe doing that with the glass too.
The fein composite blade for the oscillating tool actually works really well. Not as fast as the angle grinder but really clean. I will demo on the next video.
Does the Fein Starlock blade only fit Fein oscillating tools or will it fit any brand?
Edit: Never mind… Google is my friend! Amazon also has a handy-dandy compatibility chart. Just bought mine!!
Right on! I hope it works well for you.
That is the strangest looking plywood that I have ever seen. I can't understand how the decks became that soaked. Especially if it was was well covered in fiberglass. Obviously it needs to be replaced. But I think it is a must to understand how the water got there and repair that as well.
You're correct! None of the hull penetrations were sealed properly so the end grain wood was exposed. Water gets EVERYWHERE!! The boat also had teak decks that were screwed from the top so that is thousands of entry points for the water after 34 years.
@@livingforsail That explains it. It has to make your heart sink a little though. Not to say I know what I'm doing. (Because I don't.) But if I was you. I'd try and figure out how extensive the rot is before I continued. Get a drill and a coring bit and drill back on the decks taking samples every two feet or so. If the rot is extensive just use that circular saw and remove the deck in large pieces. As opposed to doing a little at a time with the oscillating saw tool. Fixing the whole thing a little at a time is tempting. But I've learned remodeling homes that it is substantially faster biting the bullet.
@@nikolatesla5553 yeah, in the interest of time it would be faster. The only issue is that I would need to fully brace the cabin structure from inside the boat or I would lose the shape if I go too far cutting out huge sections. It’s all a compromise one way or the other 🤷♂️
@@livingforsail Well you know your boat.
@@nikolatesla5553 it’s getting there…
Thats not mahogany plywood.. its the same thing they due in Asia. Its pieces of mahogany with resin poured on it to fill the voids.. the decks, cabin tops and cockpit are done this way in Cheoy Lee sailboats and others if you are interested in reading about it.. Mahogany is very rot resistant and this is why the decks weren't soft or spongy..
It sure looks like it USED to be plywood… but the glue layers have all failed. There are some pieces of solid mahogany occasionally now and then.
Hey John could you send me a friend request?I would like to message you privately about your project and I’m also in the middle of a major 47 foot redesign.I have 50 years in fiberglass some major and boats to 53 foot
Mark, feel free to fire me an email (scroll down in the description to the "Connect with me" part). I look forward to hearing from you
Ok I’m so old school 😳
Hobby's zijn leuk,moeten wel Hobby's blijven. Anders kun je er beter je werk van maken.
Maar dan ben je nu verkeerd bezig 😮
I can't for the life of me rationalize why plywood mini-shingles, scattered at random, would EVER be considered for a deck core! Was that a decision made by the designer or the builder?!
If you’ve seen my first chat with Bob Perry he basically confirms that this is how it was done then. I’ve spoken to several others in the industry that confirmed the same. It was very common. I assume that the core of “today’s” build was the off-cuts from the interior bits of “yesterday’s” build…
Structurally it would be ok provided that all of the cracks are filled with resin and everything was kept dry but there in lies the problem…
Don’t believe there is a core in the glass from the deck to the caprails
I hope not… it looks like they may have just poured it full of straight resin… we will see.
no way you could have let the wood dry out and then saturate it with a wood penetrating resin, and close it back up?
I have seen people do things like that. It’s really a bandaid fix. For what I want to do with this boat, I’ll feel much better to have a rebuilt deck. 👍🙌
Taiwan built boat?
Yes it was built in Taiwan in 1989.
We use chainsaws believe it or not.
Yikes. That is awesome. Please submit video evidence 😳👍🙌