The growth in the AR market has lead to an explosion in aftermarket parts. I've had the Geissle charging handle for a while now. The BCM and Raptor handles are very good and you'd be well served with any. That being said the Geissle is just a bit more refined in my opinion and I've messed with all of them. If you don't want ambi then the BCM is the way to go. Full disclosure: Geissle is local to me and the come to the range I work at to shoot. The guys there are great.
Karl, would you please group all of the WWSD videos in to a playlist, that way when it's time to build my WWSD AR-15, I would have another valuable resource with thoughtful insight and a long discussion about why they choose one option over other options. Thank you.
I second this request. I was surprised there wasn't a playlist already. A playlist someone else put together showed up in my recommended sidebar. This is video 13 of the list. Here's the end part of the link to the playlist: *watch?v=jSjSneSaLzI&list=PLZ1zSYK7VG6WID0kta1fpr8I85K5yGlQe* I didn't include the youtube(dot)com/ portion since direct links often get caught in spam filters.
thespartanmk1 Well, here in germany, Ar-15s are quite expensive (1.500€ and up) and since they are all chambered in either .223 or .308 I am not very interested in them. I much rather prefer my K98 Jagd chambered in 7x64mm for hunting. :P
Honestly, this seems worth spending the money. A good, smooth charging handle is essential and there are really too many $60+ CHs out there that are just glorified milspec chargers that offer little else beyond a brand name.
I got a Geissele SCH for my 16" rifle, my immediate thought after I installed it and tried it was, "This is what quality feels like." It really is great. I want to try the slightly smaller Airborne one.
I've got to say, I prefer the G36 charging handle. The way its centered and instantly ambi without getting into the way is amazing to me. And with how modular the Ar-15 is, I'm sure there's room for a kit that adapts the bolt and gas system for it to make some sort of G36-AR-15 hybrid rifle.
With the WWSD project I've come around on the AR15 platform and started to appreciate it, a lot. I'd be building a kit of my own taste if I lived in a country with freedom.
Did you guys look at Geissele's AIRBORNE CHARGING HANDLE (ACH)? FULL DESCRIPTION "The Airborne Charging Handle (ACH) was developed at the request of an elite organization famous for its expertise in aerial insertion. The organization requested a lower profile lever design to reduce the chances of snagging. The ACH’s lower profile design is especially ideal for rifles where the primary sighting system is a red dot or similar low profile optic system. The ambidextrous ACH is 3D machined from a solid block of aircraft grade 7075-T6 aluminum. Shortened levers are dual contoured with gently concaved radius cuts in the vertical and horizontal planes. The handling surfaces of the levers are checkered for confident operation while wearing gloves. A taller fence at the rear of the ACH aids in redirecting gas blow back when shooting with short barreled and suppressed weapon systems. The ACH and its components are Type 3 Hardcoat anodized and are available in Black and DDC (Desert Dirt Color)."
Huh, I suffer from McCollumism too. Always, thought the charging-handle was pretty decent on my issued GAU; hated the lack of a brass deflector though.
I have plenty of time on the AR Stoner platform of rifle . So much that I saw a Facebook meme about stoner paradise and it didn't make sense to me because I immediately thought of black rifles and the post was talking about pot heads . In the last 15 years I've seen a lot of Internet tacticoool experts telling me that I should upgrade my charging handle and it never made sense to me . I could not see benefits of this modification . I just never had a problem with the OEM / mil-spec style of charging handle . You are the first to make me think seriously about actually buying a charging handle . I have had ambi handles before but always because it came in a parts package that I bought but they didn't change anything about how I ran my rifle . I bought a Integrally suppressed barrel kit that came with a hand guard , BCG , adjustable gas block and tube and gas buster charging handle . I plan on machining a 5.56 mm barrel to add in place of the 300 blackout . I bought the 300 blk because of all the hype about the round being more efficient in short barrels and the effective barrel length is 10.5" because of the suppressor porting . But I don't shoot it as much because of the ammo price and lack of bulk availability .
It's funny that you mention the G36's charging handle, as IMO that should be the gold standard all charging handles should compete against. It stays out of the way (the actual handle is under spring tension, so it returns to the centre position automatically), it is ambidextrous, it contains a silent bolt close device (pull the handle to the side as if to use it, then push it towards the middle to lock it in place), it is easy to grab both with bare hands and with thick gloves, the movement comes really natural and is much faster (because it is much closer to your supporting hand than the AR-15's handle).
It's not good, the G36's charging handle forces a raised and non supported rail, IE, bumps your optics up away from bore and causes you to have a weak unsupported rail since it has to hover over the handle's race way, IE, more accuracy problem due to twist and flex....the AR's receiver is one solid chunk with no moving pieces, this is why it's such a good optics host. Plus it requires a very particular receiver shape to work, hence why it's seen nowhere else and from what i gather it's not the easiest thing to grab from what limited exprience i have with the G36, it's very flat and you have to feel for it since it's the same shape folded as the entire stalk of the handle, i run from the back and feel for the hinge point....it's not very intuitive, compared to just reaching back and smacking into the charging handle's hook.
It is actually very easy to grab, even with three-finger-mittens during winter, as I can attest from personal experience (and with the same knowledge on the AR-15, the same can't be said there). And the stability argument for the optic rail doesn't count much, we're talking about an assault rifle here (not to mention that if you look at the G36, the scope actually looks through the optic rail, only the red-dot sight sits on top of it).
Some versions never had it (namely the V-variants, G36V and G36KV as used by the Latvian army for example). And the receiver still is only about 10mm higher than the AR-15's. And of course the handle is still easy enough to grab, even with thick gloves. Modularity was never a goal of that weapon (nor of this discussion), and none of the G36 variants can compete with the AR-15 in that regard. There is only the receiver made by H&K, there is only the bolt (and bolt handle) made by H&K, even the stock is basically limited to what you get from H&K (not to mention the trigger). The rifle has never got the popularity and was never used widely enough for third-party manufacturers to get in on it, like they did with the AR-15 platform. If you want to compete the two platforms against each other in that category, the AR-15 wins without even breaking a sweat. That doesn't change the fact, that the charging handle on the G36 is a much better thought out idea.
Thanks for this. I've been using Badger Ordnance handles, which are just as expensive and they do have the drawbacks you mention. I didn't know Geissele made these, so I'll give one a try.
I have the Geissele Airborne CH on my rifles, same as the regular Super, just doesn't extend out quite as far. I've tried a couple other ambi handles and prefer the Geissele by far. Before this I used the BCM Mod 4 charging handle, and for a "regular" handle, I think it is one of the best.
"as we know ar-15 is a semi dgi system" said with all the balls of "I dare you to argue with me". He's right. It's shoots gas back but the bolt is really more of a gas piston
I've been thinking about building an AR for a while, and subscribed to forgotten weapons, but not InRange. this video convinced me to start buying parts and subscribe to InRange.
I have used BCM handles on my builds and I bought most of them twice, going from medium to small latches. I started changing them once I began shooting with gear on. I don't practice shooting support side, although I should so maybe ambi is in my future.
I got the Timber Creek entry, equally absurdly priced. It's a little smoother than the OE S&W unit, but not quite Guc- err- Geissele smooth. Still no regrets as it's much easier to operate southpaw, has rounded corners that don't make it a snag-o-matic, and it has those 'wings' like the Geissele so it's easy to acquire around a scope. Also available in a nice shade of OD Green (or orange, gold, whatever floats your boat).
I went back and forth for a long time trying to decide if I wanted to buy an AR or build one. I've decided to build largely based on this project. Thank you.
I have been gradually upgrading my AR and I have been looking at charging handles. I always saw recommendations for Geissele, but never really much depth as to what makes it better. More like emphasizing the most obvious differences from a standard handle. It was between this and the Radian Raptor. I was leaning towards the Raptor. But after watching this, I think I am gonna go ahead and just buy the Geissele. Thanks for the info. It actually has helped my rifle build in several aspects. I am not trying to make a very light or completely modular rifle. I just want a rifle that is noticeably better than standard.
Radian Weapons makes a less expensive version of this now, they call it the Raptor and it comes in a few varieties. Not quite as 'slick' as the Geissele but the functionality is there.
I couldn’t agree more regarding how amazing a smooth charging handle can be! I would be happy to send you my old ambi one - if you’d like to have a laugh about how bad they can get! it’s amazing how much damage it accumulates and sustained and how that gritty scraping funk build up makes it a no brainer upgrade option. It was annodized alluminum ambi with a steel latch- it really and I mean REALLY scrapes and scratches the heck out of its little interior retaining orifice and latch area was almost completely ground down flat from use. Admittedly I used the rifle hard and it got maybe 10k rounds of use with that one charger - I overlube and under-clean (I know I know ... shameful) thank you for this content!!
So I have a question, what's the comparison between this charging handle and the Radian Raptor? I've always used the Raptor and absolutely love it and have zero experience in the Geissele despite using their triggers.
One of the only reasons I still favored the forward assist was for wacking it back into battery when you bump the charging handle on the way down the rope but for sure this charging handle is worth every penny just for the certainty of getting rid of the assist
Try the Armageddon charging handle, it's another evolution over the Geissele that is ambi, enclosed for dirt, snags even less than the geissele, is stronger than the geissele, and does a far superior job of gas busting. Cranes recent debunking report on gas busting charging handles was prior to the release of the Armageddon, crane now has a PO for a huge quantity. Check it out.
I am so glad I watched this video. My AR-10 has been giving me a lot of blowback gas in my face and I thought it just was the ammo (never would have thought it could be the charging handle which I replaced around the same time I got the bulk ammo). Tomorrow going to the range to see if going back to the old one (which SUCKS to use because it is standard AR-15 sized mated to a big ol .308 buffer spring) solves the blowback problem.
I've ran mil spec and BCM for a decade, and for a while thought upgraded CH were a waste of money (you dont even use it to reload). Then I got a Geissele upper with their Airborne CH and really liked the smoothness and the ability to brass check with my shooting hand (allowing me to more easily keep the muzzle controlled and downward with my support hand).
They're nice, but too expensive for me right now. I can see and agree with the benefits, but for now I'll stick to the $40 BCM handles. But great video, as always. Clear, concise, well articulated, and balanced. Can't think of what you missed except maybe the material they used. But it's Geissele and we all know they don't cheap out or sacrifice quality
I'm surprised you guys didn't try the HABU charge handle from Falcon37. I picked one up to try recently and I love it. Ambi, lots of grip real estate, blocks gas, and it doesn't torque against the upper like my previous BCM and other conventional charge handles I have tried. I love that it's essentially the same movement I use to run the slide on my pistol.
I'll definitely have to check this thing out for my WWSD upper project. The BCM handles are definitely snag-y in my experience, but I've had really good luck with the Troy ambi handle and the Raptor, though the Raptor definitely has a lot of snag potential.
7:47 Wait, I feel like this was a jump cut...did you guys turn the phone that was making noises off and try and assume the same positions you were in before turning it off? I'd venture a guess that that's why Ian was suddenly smiling after the cut, because of how funny that probably looked.
IIRC, It's Ian's dog that's been in a few of these videos? With no evidence to support it, I'm going to believe that it was the dog loudly disagreeing with how important gas coming out of your charging handle is to shooting. Mostly because it's a fun mental image. More seriously, good job on the cut; I wouldn't have noticed if I hadn't been looking *right* at the screen at that exact moment.
The bigger latch is a good option. It won't make it ambi, but for about $8.00 Strike industries makes an aftermarket that you can just plug and play. It's not huge, but gives a lot of purchase.
I love going back over this series. I think I'm finally gearing up to clone the famous inrange AR. I have had time to consider everything and still can't find anything about them I object with. keep it Gucci
As a right handed person, even in the static range just plinking I can appreciate an ambi charging handle. I would like the ability to just reach up with my more dexterous hand to pull that handle back just like you would a bolt gun or something like an SKS
Well shit... just picked one of these up after debating between this and the Raptor LT for days. I've had a regular Raptor before and figured this wouldn't be that much better. I was wrong, it feels great. The checkering is significant and gives good grip. .. and it's just damn smooth and doesn't move side to side much when pulling back one handed, my old Raptor would bind sometimes.
I can attest to the slickness of this charging handle. I however went with the strike industries latchless charging handle with the extended side being away from my body.
Agree. A good charging handle makes a world of a difference. Could you guys do a bit on those carbon hand guards? How durable are they, how well they do with heat management...etc. Thanks
My Radian Raptor LT is pretty nice as well. Geisslie has a very nice trigger (SSA-E) so i’d Imagine their charging handle would be nice. Seems to be mostly aesthetic differences in my opinion more than functional differences. I’ve seen the Raptor LT’s go for 70$, I had a BCM ambidextrous charging handle that was fairly nice, but the latch was fairly large now that you mention it.
Got one. Love it. But I only bought it because it was the only one I could find in green/"FDE" at the time. A vain reason, I know. But I was going for MY dream AR. Still, it is definitely overpriced. I would recommend BCM or Radian Ambi. Same advantages, more reasonable prices. Still,love your vids. You guys helped me a lot in building my rifle. Thanks for all the info!
If you're worried about the strength of the charging handle, I think you should try the Sintercore handles. They don't have any moving parts other than a new detent that's out of the way of gear and stuff. It's about as close as you can get to a boot stompable AR charging handle. They even have one that has vent holes to reduce gas in your face from suppressor use. Edit: Forgot to mention it's also super light.
They are horrible. They come loose when firing.They also wear out the catch groove on your upper. Destroying your upper. Just look where that detent catch rides. You will see it has taken off the coating and will soon start wearing the aluminum. All straight pull spring detent type handles will do this.
hasn't done this on either of mine and the coming loose thing has only ever happened when I had it slung with the bolt to the rear. I hate you have had your issues because I love mine.
Alex Capps do not know how long you have had them but it will happen. It is in the design of them. There is no way around it. The constant riding of the detent over the hard corner wears down . Making it loose it will get you in the nose. Then when you go back to a regular charging handle it will not work either since there is no longer a nice corner for it to grab. I have a radian raptor now (after having to buy new a new upper) and love it. Have not tried a geissle to know how they compare.
It's impossible for them to wear out the catch on your upper on a scientific level. The latch they use is a type of polymer, the upper is aluminum. The only wear on my upper is from the milspec handle smacking the shit out of it every time I charge it. Edit: Not to mention it's less likely to come loose on gear because there's no giant latches on the sides that can completely unlock the charging handle, you have to physically overcome the detent with more force than anything that uses a locking latch.
I can totally understand the part about a smooth charging handle. I don't like the AR-15 charging handle sound. Unfortunately, being in Europe, I can get the Geissele charging handle for ~$168. I can also get a locally produced ambi charging handle that looks like it should do OK for ~$100 (V-AR ambidextrous charging handle). Tough choices.
I have the AXTS/radian raptor charging handle on both of my AR's. The LWRC and Geissele are other great ones and the only down side I have found is that once you buy one at $70- $100 you want to put them on all your rifles 😅
I know you guys are finished with this series but you should check out the strike industries latchless ambidextrous charging handles, truly a step forward for the AR-15
Geez, the AR-10 version is $125! Still, seems like a really nice, well-thought-out part. If my budget allows when I get to that part of my 7mm-08 build, I may just pony up.
I ran the Geissele on someone else's rifle once. I liked it. I considered it for a while, but now that I am starting to built my AR, I went with the Raptor instead. It is nearly identical, but just slightly smaller, slightly lighter, and costs far less. I do have to admit that side by side, the Geissele does seem just a touch smoother, but the Raptor costs $35 and the Geissele costs $90, so that slightly smoother feel was not worth the $55 to me.
I wanna know is where in the world are you finding the Raptor for 35?! Everywhere I seen online the Raptor is about 80-90 bucks. Unless you're talking about the newer Raptor LT which uses a polymer molding around the Raptor's skeleton-like frame. Even that is still about 60 bucks...
I just checked the price. $69 at AIM Surplus. Apparently the price has shot up since I bought mine. With the new price in mind, I would not get the Raptor.
Nah, It's all good man haha... I bought it anyway since it was in stock with free shipping... The Geissele is still about 20 or so more than the raptor which both somewhat feel the same when I was at the gunshop yesterday. 69 bucks wasn't too bad imo since I originally was gonna go with the BCM MOD4 ambi charging handle, but that thing really pokes you during carbine classes. I feel really fortunate to have a lot of friends who already have some of these products and they let me try them out...
I personally have handled one of these, they're 100% pure comfort no matter how you come at them. Worth every fuckin' penny. My fave seller has them for $80 right now down from $90, (sorry can't advertise here). Shop & you'll find them.
Maybe I missed it, but you guys went right past one of the major intentions of Stoners design and how that factored in to the charging handle. In fact, you actually mentioned the situations he was trying to prevent, and never explained how this gucci handle does not have the same issues like snagging on gear and stabbing you in the back. Stoners design focused a lot on keeping the weapon as low snag as possible. That was the primary reason for a charging lever on top of the weapon, instead of to the side like almost every other weapon design has done. That was also the reason the redesign was wedge shaped. Of course that design proved hard to grip and use, so the second redesign resulted in the standard T shape we have now, which is even more of a violation of the smooth, narrow low snag profile Stoner envisioned. I don't know what the solution is, and I have spent quite a bit of time thinking about it in my own quest to reproduce a similar Stoner inspired rifle. I'm still waiting for someone smarter or more clever than I to come up with something.
![Unboxing / Comparison - Geissele Automatics Super Charging Handle [DDC]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/37gvZmDsglE/mqdefault.jpg)
Now I got to get the Gucci charging handle, thanks Karl.
no kidding
and the proper Gucci rifle to put it on! :) ua-cam.com/video/xh8ElfjS3sM/v-deo.html
I can agree as a former serviceman that soldierproofing every part of the system is extremely important.
Tomais and hard to do
Wow these men are incredibly well spoken, and knowledgeable. Wish i was smart like them
The growth in the AR market has lead to an explosion in aftermarket parts. I've had the Geissle charging handle for a while now. The BCM and Raptor handles are very good and you'd be well served with any. That being said the Geissle is just a bit more refined in my opinion and I've messed with all of them. If you don't want ambi then the BCM is the way to go.
Full disclosure: Geissle is local to me and the come to the range I work at to shoot. The guys there are great.
Matthew Whitticar I’m not sure if your aware but BCM does make an ambi charging handle
I don't think they make a product that isn't top tier
You kind of make me wish I got a Geissele instead of a Raptor
Anyone know if the Griffin Armament SNATCH is better for suppressors use as it vents to the side?
I've pinched myself a few times with a BCM. I gotta remember not to curl my finger under. It's a small inconvenience, but something to consider.
This is the only channel that I could watch an eleven minute video about a charging handle.
I bought one of these on sale during black friday for $45 dollars or so. Definitively worth it!
kip129 ..That's awesome... Where should I look this year for one on black Friday?
From Geissele if possible. That's where I purchased mine.
Karl, would you please group all of the WWSD videos in to a playlist, that way when it's time to build my WWSD AR-15, I would have another valuable resource with thoughtful insight and a long discussion about why they choose one option over other options. Thank you.
I second this request.
I was surprised there wasn't a playlist already.
A playlist someone else put together showed up in my recommended sidebar. This is video 13 of the list. Here's the end part of the link to the playlist:
*watch?v=jSjSneSaLzI&list=PLZ1zSYK7VG6WID0kta1fpr8I85K5yGlQe*
I didn't include the youtube(dot)com/ portion since direct links often get caught in spam filters.
did you build it?
Loving the build so far, can't wait for the next hubristic seals of approval
I don't even have an Ar-15, but I still love watching all of your videos, regardless of what guns they are about. :P
With how cheap ARs have gotten. There is no excuse.
thespartanmk1 except awful laws about guns.
thespartanmk1
Well, here in germany, Ar-15s are quite expensive (1.500€ and up) and since they are all chambered in either .223 or .308 I am not very interested in them. I much rather prefer my K98 Jagd chambered in 7x64mm for hunting. :P
Except living in a country where laws make them illegal to own.
This build is ~1500 before optics
Honestly, this seems worth spending the money. A good, smooth charging handle is essential and there are really too many $60+ CHs out there that are just glorified milspec chargers that offer little else beyond a brand name.
A better comparison for the top charging handle on the "Ur-AR15" might've been a FAMAS as they are even similar....erer
I got a Geissele SCH for my 16" rifle, my immediate thought after I installed it and tried it was, "This is what quality feels like." It really is great. I want to try the slightly smaller Airborne one.
Stamp of hubris is hilarious.
I've got to say, I prefer the G36 charging handle. The way its centered and instantly ambi without getting into the way is amazing to me. And with how modular the Ar-15 is, I'm sure there's room for a kit that adapts the bolt and gas system for it to make some sort of G36-AR-15 hybrid rifle.
I just bought a no-name copy of that thing at a time show for $30 and it's a HUGE improvement.
With the WWSD project I've come around on the AR15 platform and started to appreciate it, a lot. I'd be building a kit of my own taste if I lived in a country with freedom.
Did you guys look at Geissele's AIRBORNE CHARGING HANDLE (ACH)?
FULL DESCRIPTION
"The Airborne Charging Handle (ACH) was developed at the request of an elite organization famous for its expertise in aerial insertion. The organization requested a lower profile lever design to reduce the chances of snagging. The ACH’s lower profile design is especially ideal for rifles where the primary sighting system is a red dot or similar low profile optic system. The ambidextrous ACH is 3D machined from a solid block of aircraft grade 7075-T6 aluminum. Shortened levers are dual contoured with gently concaved radius cuts in the vertical and horizontal planes. The handling surfaces of the levers are checkered for confident operation while wearing gloves. A taller fence at the rear of the ACH aids in redirecting gas blow back when shooting with short barreled and suppressed weapon systems. The ACH and its components are Type 3 Hardcoat anodized and are available in Black and DDC (Desert Dirt Color)."
Huh, I suffer from McCollumism too. Always, thought the charging-handle was pretty decent on my issued GAU; hated the lack of a brass deflector though.
I have plenty of time on the AR Stoner platform of rifle . So much that I saw a Facebook meme about stoner paradise and it didn't make sense to me because I immediately thought of black rifles and the post was talking about pot heads . In the last 15 years I've seen a lot of Internet tacticoool experts telling me that I should upgrade my charging handle and it never made sense to me . I could not see benefits of this modification . I just never had a problem with the OEM / mil-spec style of charging handle . You are the first to make me think seriously about actually buying a charging handle . I have had ambi handles before but always because it came in a parts package that I bought but they didn't change anything about how I ran my rifle . I bought a Integrally suppressed barrel kit that came with a hand guard , BCG , adjustable gas block and tube and gas buster charging handle . I plan on machining a 5.56 mm barrel to add in place of the 300 blackout . I bought the 300 blk because of all the hype about the round being more efficient in short barrels and the effective barrel length is 10.5" because of the suppressor porting . But I don't shoot it as much because of the ammo price and lack of bulk availability .
It's funny that you mention the G36's charging handle, as IMO that should be the gold standard all charging handles should compete against.
It stays out of the way (the actual handle is under spring tension, so it returns to the centre position automatically), it is ambidextrous, it contains a silent bolt close device (pull the handle to the side as if to use it, then push it towards the middle to lock it in place), it is easy to grab both with bare hands and with thick gloves, the movement comes really natural and is much faster (because it is much closer to your supporting hand than the AR-15's handle).
It's not good, the G36's charging handle forces a raised and non supported rail, IE, bumps your optics up away from bore and causes you to have a weak unsupported rail since it has to hover over the handle's race way, IE, more accuracy problem due to twist and flex....the AR's receiver is one solid chunk with no moving pieces, this is why it's such a good optics host.
Plus it requires a very particular receiver shape to work, hence why it's seen nowhere else and from what i gather it's not the easiest thing to grab from what limited exprience i have with the G36, it's very flat and you have to feel for it since it's the same shape folded as the entire stalk of the handle, i run from the back and feel for the hinge point....it's not very intuitive, compared to just reaching back and smacking into the charging handle's hook.
It is actually very easy to grab, even with three-finger-mittens during winter, as I can attest from personal experience (and with the same knowledge on the AR-15, the same can't be said there). And the stability argument for the optic rail doesn't count much, we're talking about an assault rifle here (not to mention that if you look at the G36, the scope actually looks through the optic rail, only the red-dot sight sits on top of it).
Some versions never had it (namely the V-variants, G36V and G36KV as used by the Latvian army for example). And the receiver still is only about 10mm higher than the AR-15's. And of course the handle is still easy enough to grab, even with thick gloves.
Modularity was never a goal of that weapon (nor of this discussion), and none of the G36 variants can compete with the AR-15 in that regard. There is only the receiver made by H&K, there is only the bolt (and bolt handle) made by H&K, even the stock is basically limited to what you get from H&K (not to mention the trigger). The rifle has never got the popularity and was never used widely enough for third-party manufacturers to get in on it, like they did with the AR-15 platform. If you want to compete the two platforms against each other in that category, the AR-15 wins without even breaking a sweat.
That doesn't change the fact, that the charging handle on the G36 is a much better thought out idea.
I bought one of these just because of this video. I have never and never will regret one penny of its cost.
Thanks for this. I've been using Badger Ordnance handles, which are just as expensive and they do have the drawbacks you mention. I didn't know Geissele made these, so I'll give one a try.
I just want to say I appreciate the disclosure that you were not given the charging handle.
I have the Geissele Airborne CH on my rifles, same as the regular Super, just doesn't extend out quite as far. I've tried a couple other ambi handles and prefer the Geissele by far. Before this I used the BCM Mod 4 charging handle, and for a "regular" handle, I think it is one of the best.
"as we know ar-15 is a semi dgi system" said with all the balls of "I dare you to argue with me". He's right. It's shoots gas back but the bolt is really more of a gas piston
I actually bought 6 of these to put in most of my ARs, then I found this video and I couldn't agree more. I loved using these!
I've been thinking about building an AR for a while, and subscribed to forgotten weapons, but not InRange. this video convinced me to start buying parts and subscribe to InRange.
I have used BCM handles on my builds and I bought most of them twice, going from medium to small latches. I started changing them once I began shooting with gear on. I don't practice shooting support side, although I should so maybe ambi is in my future.
I got the Timber Creek entry, equally absurdly priced. It's a little smoother than the OE S&W unit, but not quite Guc- err- Geissele smooth. Still no regrets as it's much easier to operate southpaw, has rounded corners that don't make it a snag-o-matic, and it has those 'wings' like the Geissele so it's easy to acquire around a scope. Also available in a nice shade of OD Green (or orange, gold, whatever floats your boat).
I went back and forth for a long time trying to decide if I wanted to buy an AR or build one. I've decided to build largely based on this project. Thank you.
I have been gradually upgrading my AR and I have been looking at charging handles. I always saw recommendations for Geissele, but never really much depth as to what makes it better. More like emphasizing the most obvious differences from a standard handle. It was between this and the Radian Raptor. I was leaning towards the Raptor. But after watching this, I think I am gonna go ahead and just buy the Geissele. Thanks for the info. It actually has helped my rifle build in several aspects. I am not trying to make a very light or completely modular rifle. I just want a rifle that is noticeably better than standard.
Radian Weapons makes a less expensive version of this now, they call it the Raptor and it comes in a few varieties. Not quite as 'slick' as the Geissele but the functionality is there.
I couldn’t agree more regarding how amazing a smooth charging handle can be! I would be happy to send you my old ambi one - if you’d like to have a laugh about how bad they can get! it’s amazing how much damage it accumulates and sustained and how that gritty scraping funk build up makes it a no brainer upgrade option. It was annodized alluminum ambi with a steel latch- it really and I mean REALLY scrapes and scratches the heck out of its little interior retaining orifice and latch area was almost completely ground down flat from use. Admittedly I used the rifle hard and it got maybe 10k rounds of use with that one charger - I overlube and under-clean (I know I know ... shameful) thank you for this content!!
Couldn't keep my eyes off that Nightwish shirt.
So I have a question, what's the comparison between this charging handle and the Radian Raptor? I've always used the Raptor and absolutely love it and have zero experience in the Geissele despite using their triggers.
Ok. I learned something. I never would have given this CH a second look. But...now I will check it out.
Doesn't get better than that.
Good video. I got the raptor after running standard and large latches and the difference is night and day
One of the only reasons I still favored the forward assist was for wacking it back into battery when you bump the charging handle on the way down the rope but for sure this charging handle is worth every penny just for the certainty of getting rid of the assist
Try the Armageddon charging handle, it's another evolution over the Geissele that is ambi, enclosed for dirt, snags even less than the geissele, is stronger than the geissele, and does a far superior job of gas busting. Cranes recent debunking report on gas busting charging handles was prior to the release of the Armageddon, crane now has a PO for a huge quantity. Check it out.
Great information on this charging handle.
I am so glad I watched this video. My AR-10 has been giving me a lot of blowback gas in my face and I thought it just was the ammo (never would have thought it could be the charging handle which I replaced around the same time I got the bulk ammo). Tomorrow going to the range to see if going back to the old one (which SUCKS to use because it is standard AR-15 sized mated to a big ol .308 buffer spring) solves the blowback problem.
I would this series: " What would Stoner do?"! Please keep this series going & maybe put it in a single playlist.
I've ran mil spec and BCM for a decade, and for a while thought upgraded CH were a waste of money (you dont even use it to reload). Then I got a Geissele upper with their Airborne CH and really liked the smoothness and the ability to brass check with my shooting hand (allowing me to more easily keep the muzzle controlled and downward with my support hand).
They're nice, but too expensive for me right now. I can see and agree with the benefits, but for now I'll stick to the $40 BCM handles.
But great video, as always. Clear, concise, well articulated, and balanced. Can't think of what you missed except maybe the material they used. But it's Geissele and we all know they don't cheap out or sacrifice quality
Definitely want one of these. I’ve heard the Radian charging handle is also good
I'm surprised you guys didn't try the HABU charge handle from Falcon37. I picked one up to try recently and I love it. Ambi, lots of grip real estate, blocks gas, and it doesn't torque against the upper like my previous BCM and other conventional charge handles I have tried. I love that it's essentially the same movement I use to run the slide on my pistol.
Charging handle are largely personal preference. I have a discontinued Sintercore latchless charging handle that I love.
I'll definitely have to check this thing out for my WWSD upper project.
The BCM handles are definitely snag-y in my experience, but I've had really good luck with the Troy ambi handle and the Raptor, though the Raptor definitely has a lot of snag potential.
Great channel, straight up content, no nonsense, right up there with Lucky Gunner, SmallArms Solutions and Kristen Joy Weiss
Ordering mine today
You guys should do a wwsd AR10 build some time
2020 update - Geissele's "government" charging handle is where it's at.
Sincere thanks for not saying ambidextrious.
Absolutely love mine
7:47 Wait, I feel like this was a jump cut...did you guys turn the phone that was making noises off and try and assume the same positions you were in before turning it off? I'd venture a guess that that's why Ian was suddenly smiling after the cut, because of how funny that probably looked.
Something probably interrupted us in the background. I don't remember. ~K
IIRC, It's Ian's dog that's been in a few of these videos? With no evidence to support it, I'm going to believe that it was the dog loudly disagreeing with how important gas coming out of your charging handle is to shooting. Mostly because it's a fun mental image.
More seriously, good job on the cut; I wouldn't have noticed if I hadn't been looking *right* at the screen at that exact moment.
Strike Industries latchless charging handle. Least expensive and fewest number of parts. Genius idea.
Agreed. SI is kind of a joke company but those CH’s work excellently.
The only issue I've found with the matchless handle is the inability to cope with the recoil of my 7.62x39 AR. Nose smacks with every shot.
The bigger latch is a good option. It won't make it ambi, but for about $8.00 Strike industries makes an aftermarket that you can just plug and play. It's not huge, but gives a lot of purchase.
LOVE Your guys Video's! Thank You & PLEASE keep up the amazing Work. Thanks
I love going back over this series. I think I'm finally gearing up to clone the famous inrange AR. I have had time to consider everything and still can't find anything about them I object with.
keep it Gucci
Great info.
In a world where you often don't get what you pay for, it's nice to see a product where you really DO get what you pay for.
As a right handed person, even in the static range just plinking I can appreciate an ambi charging handle. I would like the ability to just reach up with my more dexterous hand to pull that handle back just like you would a bolt gun or something like an SKS
Always get intelligent critical thought on this channel, love it
I've run the Geissle "Airborne" CHs for a few years. Getting gouged in the Sternum is minimized with these- when moving with rifle slung.
A Gucci most
Radiant raptor charging handles. Best in market
Super 42 buffer springs.
Guys, you 2 make alot of sense intellectually
You read my mind. First thought, "It's a fricken charging handle". I thought about it though and I get it.
I agree, at first glance it seems really ridiculous. ~K
We need a InRange stamp of Hubris t-shirt!
Well shit... just picked one of these up after debating between this and the Raptor LT for days. I've had a regular Raptor before and figured this wouldn't be that much better. I was wrong, it feels great. The checkering is significant and gives good grip. .. and it's just damn smooth and doesn't move side to side much when pulling back one handed, my old Raptor would bind sometimes.
I can attest to the slickness of this charging handle. I however went with the strike industries latchless charging handle with the extended side being away from my body.
Great charging handle!
Agree. A good charging handle makes a world of a difference. Could you guys do a bit on those carbon hand guards? How durable are they, how well they do with heat management...etc. Thanks
I have a SCH with a lantec ebcg a JP SCS in a spikes upper without a foreward assist. Its pretty smooth.
Based in part on this video I am using this charging handle in my AR assembles.
My Radian Raptor LT is pretty nice as well. Geisslie has a very nice trigger (SSA-E) so i’d Imagine their charging handle would be nice. Seems to be mostly aesthetic differences in my opinion more than functional differences. I’ve seen the Raptor LT’s go for 70$,
I had a BCM ambidextrous charging handle that was fairly nice, but the latch was fairly large now that you mention it.
Got one. Love it. But I only bought it because it was the only one I could find in green/"FDE" at the time. A vain reason, I know. But I was going for MY dream AR. Still, it is definitely overpriced. I would recommend BCM or Radian Ambi. Same advantages, more reasonable prices. Still,love your vids. You guys helped me a lot in building my rifle. Thanks for all the info!
I bought one Memorial weekend for $66 shipped. Much more reasonable. Curious how it feels compared to a previous BCM/Vltor non-ambi I had years ago.
Charging handle I have fallen in love with is the standard radian raptor
If you're worried about the strength of the charging handle, I think you should try the Sintercore handles. They don't have any moving parts other than a new detent that's out of the way of gear and stuff. It's about as close as you can get to a boot stompable AR charging handle. They even have one that has vent holes to reduce gas in your face from suppressor use.
Edit: Forgot to mention it's also super light.
Second, I use the sintercore handles on all my rifles. best charger on the market.
They are horrible. They come loose when firing.They also wear out the catch groove on your upper. Destroying your upper. Just look where that detent catch rides. You will see it has taken off the coating and will soon start wearing the aluminum. All straight pull spring detent type handles will do this.
hasn't done this on either of mine and the coming loose thing has only ever happened when I had it slung with the bolt to the rear. I hate you have had your issues because I love mine.
Alex Capps do not know how long you have had them but it will happen. It is in the design of them. There is no way around it. The constant riding of the detent over the hard corner wears down . Making it loose it will get you in the nose. Then when you go back to a regular charging handle it will not work either since there is no longer a nice corner for it to grab. I have a radian raptor now (after having to buy new a new upper) and love it. Have not tried a geissle to know how they compare.
It's impossible for them to wear out the catch on your upper on a scientific level. The latch they use is a type of polymer, the upper is aluminum. The only wear on my upper is from the milspec handle smacking the shit out of it every time I charge it. Edit: Not to mention it's less likely to come loose on gear because there's no giant latches on the sides that can completely unlock the charging handle, you have to physically overcome the detent with more force than anything that uses a locking latch.
Just got mine for my 10 inch pistol and the airborne geiselle for my 7.5 blackout
I can totally understand the part about a smooth charging handle. I don't like the AR-15 charging handle sound.
Unfortunately, being in Europe, I can get the Geissele charging handle for ~$168. I can also get a locally produced ambi charging handle that looks like it should do OK for ~$100 (V-AR ambidextrous charging handle).
Tough choices.
I have the AXTS/radian raptor charging handle on both of my AR's. The LWRC and Geissele are other great ones and the only down side I have found is that once you buy one at $70- $100 you want to put them on all your rifles 😅
I have the raptor charging handle, which is similar in design, on all of my ARs. It makes the least ergonomic control substantially better.
The AR15 is not "semi DI.v
Its just DI.
There is no op rod.
Energy is transferred directly to the action.
The piston does not separate anything.
Wow, I'm really impressed.. I never imagined that you can talk about charging handle for 11 minutes.. For me it'd be 2 min at max..
I know you guys are finished with this series but you should check out the strike industries latchless ambidextrous charging handles, truly a step forward for the AR-15
For me personally I would go with the raptor lt it looks slick, not too expensive and lightweight
Bravo company all day every day.
The number one thing I like is that you are a lefty :)
I like the bcm gunfighter. I own and use it. I've never used the geissele even though I know they make top notch stuff.
I was really surprised by the difference in how it felt. For me, it was way better than the Mod4 it replaced. A LOT less "slop"...if that make sense.
Ditto.
When you properly run your AR, as demonstrated in a previous video, what type of sling should I use to properly drag it?
Ghilliedude3 not a three point.
1 or 2 point.
I'm curious how that charging handle compares to the AXTS raptor?
I also want to know this
I have both and I like both the same
Geez, the AR-10 version is $125! Still, seems like a really nice, well-thought-out part. If my budget allows when I get to that part of my 7mm-08 build, I may just pony up.
Yall are breaking me another one on the list to get.
I'm loving this WWSD series even tho the AR15 and firearms like it, are unobtainium for civilians to get. (I live in Australia)
I ran the Geissele on someone else's rifle once. I liked it. I considered it for a while, but now that I am starting to built my AR, I went with the Raptor instead. It is nearly identical, but just slightly smaller, slightly lighter, and costs far less. I do have to admit that side by side, the Geissele does seem just a touch smoother, but the Raptor costs $35 and the Geissele costs $90, so that slightly smoother feel was not worth the $55 to me.
I wanna know is where in the world are you finding the Raptor for 35?! Everywhere I seen online the Raptor is about 80-90 bucks. Unless you're talking about the newer Raptor LT which uses a polymer molding around the Raptor's skeleton-like frame. Even that is still about 60 bucks...
I just checked the price. $69 at AIM Surplus. Apparently the price has shot up since I bought mine. With the new price in mind, I would not get the Raptor.
Dammit! I was kind of hoping it was on sale somewhere. lol Oh well... Strike Industries extended latch will do for now... XD
Ha, sorry. I was basing my price off what I paid. I did not know I got a special deal or that the price has gone up.
Nah, It's all good man haha... I bought it anyway since it was in stock with free shipping... The Geissele is still about 20 or so more than the raptor which both somewhat feel the same when I was at the gunshop yesterday. 69 bucks wasn't too bad imo since I originally was gonna go with the BCM MOD4 ambi charging handle, but that thing really pokes you during carbine classes. I feel really fortunate to have a lot of friends who already have some of these products and they let me try them out...
I personally have handled one of these, they're 100% pure comfort no matter how you come at them. Worth every fuckin' penny. My fave seller has them for $80 right now down from $90, (sorry can't advertise here). Shop & you'll find them.
I hated that charging handle during bayonet training in the Army. Use to leave my hand sore after thrusting it all day long into a dummy bag.
Maybe I missed it, but you guys went right past one of the major intentions of Stoners design and how that factored in to the charging handle. In fact, you actually mentioned the situations he was trying to prevent, and never explained how this gucci handle does not have the same issues like snagging on gear and stabbing you in the back. Stoners design focused a lot on keeping the weapon as low snag as possible. That was the primary reason for a charging lever on top of the weapon, instead of to the side like almost every other weapon design has done. That was also the reason the redesign was wedge shaped. Of course that design proved hard to grip and use, so the second redesign resulted in the standard T shape we have now, which is even more of a violation of the smooth, narrow low snag profile Stoner envisioned. I don't know what the solution is, and I have spent quite a bit of time thinking about it in my own quest to reproduce a similar Stoner inspired rifle. I'm still waiting for someone smarter or more clever than I to come up with something.
"Official Stamp of Hubris" - I love it!