4K How do you steer a tram??? - Tram Automatic Points and how to choose direction of travel.
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- Опубліковано 5 жов 2024
- People ask - How do you steer a tram as the tram is on rails? How does the tram know which way to go at an intersection where it can go a number of directions such as Bourke and Spencer St near Southern Cross Station where a tram can turn left or right?
This presentation will give you a basic explanation - how a tram chooses the direction of travel when approaching points and what what is involved to make a set of points change for the correct direction of travel.
If you like the video, hit the like button and to subscribe to Schony747 for trains, planes and trams, hit the bell - Brenden S.
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In my city of Augsburg (Germany), trams send a signal with their route number and destination, and the points switch automatically. The driver rarely has to press anything
In my city tram drivers sometimes switch those manually with an iron stick (probably has a name), but they do it rarely
Those systems are a bit controversial, though. There have been accidents because the driver expected a different route, either after a route change or at a divergent point when they got another route stuck in their head.
@@HenryLoenwind how could the driver cause an accident if the tracks switch themselves? What caused the accident?
@@kemai.adventures Quite simple. I know of at least one accident; they changed the route from straight to turning left at one junction. One driver didn't think of that and expected the old direction and his train hit the oncoming one.
That's one of the issues of mixing automated systems and humans. If those systems don't react to the humans but require them to follow the same plan of action independently... (or vice versa)
Having been brought up in Melbourne, I can remember when the driver had to get out and manually change the points!
Yep and it still happens on parts of the network today as well
I have lived in Sydney all my life and as a child I remember riding across the Harbour Bridge with my grandmother on a tram. I was nine years old when the last tram ran in Sydney and I remember crying because I wanted to be a tram driver. This video was educational for me and I love to ride the trams when visiting Melbourne. Thanks for the memories.
I think the one he showed in the video was electronically moved. In all trams if you look closely inside, you will find a silver stick with a triangle handle, and the driver will get out and use the silver stick to move the connector similar to the one we saw in the video, but more track-like. I’m assuming in the future these will be automated to cut down on travel times, since it takes an extra 20-30 secs to switch a track manually. Hope this was a good enough reply :)
Funny I fell into this job 18 years ago and I've been happy since then.
Aussie John. That's a pity mate. As a kid Mum and I went from Melbourne to Sydney and used the 'toast-rack' trams where the connie did the fares from the running board around the tram. Went to Bondi too, I believe the longest (& speediest) route. Even in Melbourne today, a few old blokes like me, are prone to say "I must shoot through like a Bondi tram!" Pity building of the Opera House saw the end of the tram depot there........... :-) oh well. can't be helped.
@@VicTransportExpeditions I am so sorry for not replying to you but I never received a notification of your comment and only found it by receiving the most recent reply from someone else. I do appreciate your information and it was very helpful.
@@Schony747 Again, a reply I was not notified of. I eventually became a bus driver in Sydney and was happy for 40 years.
One of the best things about living in Melbourne is its convenient and reliable Tram service 👌
It's not too bad actually compared to other public transport I've experienced around the world.
@@Schony747 In Ireland we dismantled our tramways in the 1930s, only to replace them with Buses ! We learnt a valuable lesson as new tramways in recent years have cost the country billions.
Many Melbournians don't realise that their excellent tram system is based on over 100 years of continuity, ingenuity and improvement 👍
I live all the way here in the US, and wondered how our trams do this too. Looks like it’s answered by our friends from down under. Thanks.
Thanks for having a look
Excellent, I have always wondered about this.
You and many others as I'm finding out! Thanks for looking.
Finally, life's mystery answered! Thank you so much. Now I want to know about the Sydney train system - how they set the points for each train.
I'll ask next time I'm up there
Excellent video! Being a former train driver, I know how the railways work, but always wondered about trams!
Yes the trams are a bit more driver hands on than the railways.
Tram system in Zagreb still uses far simpler, much older system that works even with the museum pieces of rolling stock: A short section of catenary wire (a meter or so) is insulated from the rest and is connected so that the tram, through pantograph and motor, closes the circuit if change of the switch position is desired. So, the driver coasts over that section with the controller in neutral (keeping the circuit open) if the switch is positioned as needed, or with the motor engaged if change of position is desired. On old trams the control was actually done via motor controller lever, while newer ones have a switch that engages or disengages appropriate circuitry.
In the 1980s, we used to have something like this in the Boston area (except I think one direction was always set by accelerate and one was always set by coast, rather than toggling), both for trams and for the electric trolleybus trolley switches. It wasn't very reliable -- think about what happens if you need the switch position indicated by pulling power but you have to slow down at the same time (they had a "Track Switch" to draw current through resistors for this, but it also wasn't very reliable), or you need the switch position indicated by coasting but you don't have enough speed to make it through by coasting (usually because you had to stop to keep from running a red signal or hitting the tram in front, and you have no way to accelerate without drawing enough current to throw the switch the wrong way). Drivers were always having to get out and press a button on the signal next to the switch to get it to go the way they needed. This must have been replaced within the last couple of decades, because now drivers very rarely have to get out to press the button.
Many of our switches for crossovers do not have actuators, and somebody has to be standing by with a switch bar, although ours operate by twisting instead of sliding.
@@Lucius_Chiaraviglio Yes, I think that the system is same, and your description is more accurate.
Similar to how it used to operate here in Melbourne from what I'm told by older drivers.
So the driver had to make sure to have some speed before entering a switch that he didn't want to change?
And if he was going a bit fast, he would have to brake enough so he could accelerate again to make the point switch?
@@Robbedem The insulated part of the catenary that closed the switch circuit is (was) less than a meter long.
I've just returned from Vienna where they have an extensive tram system. I rode several lines while I was there and saw many sets of points along the way. I often wondered how they they changed tracks. I could see points on the ground and lamps up on poles but didn't know the exact kind of mechanism which made it happen. Obviously they don't use metal poles when all is running smoothly. I looked for some explanation while I was away (via Google) but nothing came up. Your video came up at random in my feed tonight. Thanks for doing your video which has explained the process very well.
Thanks for having a look. I'll be making another video with the new interlocking points system as well.
This video explained a lot, thank you! The only remaining question is why they go on the wrong side of the street- (lol). I wish that we had extensive tram systems like that here in the US. You folks have made smart choices!
Smart choices yes! I ask the same question when I head to the US and Europe. It takes time to adjust as I'm looking the wrong way for the cars 😀😀😀😀
Not sure I'd call it the wrong side, but it certainly isn't the right one.
;)
Thanks for the answer to a question I’d never asked- until I saw a clip on Polish trams going in all different directions and it looked like mobile chaos.
I’ve also used trams to get around Melbourne when I’ve visited: but never wondered how they actually got around.
Thanks.
Thanks for having a look 😀😀
Thanks for all the instructions on Melbourne tram technology. I loved the trams in Melbourne as a young teen visiting my sister at times who lived in Hawthorne then Carlton later. I was 10 when trams ceased in Sydney and so glad to see them back again up here.
Thanks for having a look
So interesting! Thanks for sharing mate :)
Thank you for this Brenden, always wondered how this worked!
Thank you Schony. A very good description of how it works.
Thankyou. I didn't want to get too technical but it gets the point across.
Very informative video... Thanks. It explained a lot. I live in Düsseldorf, Germany, where we have the extensive Rheinbahn tram network, and I've always wondered how they change the points. One difference between your tram system and ours is that cars would never have priority over trams because the trams approaching traffic lights make the lights change in their favour.
One day Melbourne may get more priority! It's highly unlikely as there needs to be a balance between traffic flow and cars
"How can a tram switch to the direction intended at an intersection?"
It has been kept to be a question in my mind for quite a period of time until I watch your video. During the tour in Melbourne, I noticed that there seems neither signal boxes nor staff for controlling the switch at the intersection as performed in the field of railroad for a train.
Thank you very much.
This will explain everything
ua-cam.com/video/jNNtqtYVHWU/v-deo.html
Fascinating stuff. Lots of things I’d wondered about. Thank you! 🙏
I wondered whether using a combination of the route number and GPS this could be automated in the future? 🤔
Also, with trailing points, are these just changed by the force of the wheels, or are they electronically controlled too?
Force control for the trailing points. Underneath the tram there is also a square box which will eventually link to a key pad in the drivers cab. The Enhanced Automatic Points System when implemented should be fully automatic as you suggested.
@@Schony747 That's great to know. Thank you for the response! :)
There are systems that (constantly) transmit the route number as well (the buttons in the cockpit are then only used to override the automatic selection).
GPS is rarely used in rail applications, because (especially in narrow city atreets) the resolution is often not good enough to distinguish between adjacent tracks. If positioning is required (eg. for station announcements, countdown displays at the stations, control of traffic lights, or computer aided dispatch in general) this is usually done using the odometer (with corrections from the doors - which are usually only opened at the stations, thereby confirming the location - and/or infrared beacons at known locations along the route to compensate for wheel-slip).
And yes, in tram networks trailing points are usually indeed changed by the weight of the wheels alone.
In the old days the W Class trams used a power cut off to change the points. At a intersection there was a point and wenn the driver used power the tram would got on and if he cut the power the points changed and the tram turned. The first Z1 und Z2 trams had the same system.
I remember taking a W class down St Kilda Road to Carnegie, and at most junctions the Driver needing to change the points. The only manual points were into the Glen Huntly depot.
The same was true in the tram system in Pittsburgh Pennsylvania. The direction of the points was controlled by power on or off while the trolley wheel went through the switch on the overhead line. A prybar was standard issue in case the switch was set wrong. Some switches would reset to the "normal" position after the trolley / Tram had cleared the switch. It's very important for the driver to watch the points and not assume that they worked correctly.
Correct, the place where this happened was in the overhead cables before the points you killed the power and and it detected no power was being drawn and changed the points
Great stuff 👍 Awesome view
Very nice information
Thanks. Not as technical as aviation.
I'd just like to add to the many comments saying how interesting this was. As somebody with an interest in railways, I had always wondered how the points worked for trams, because the mechanisms are not obvious and clearly don't work the same way, especially when compared to traditionally operated points that have a physical rod alongside the tracks to connect the point to a signal box lever frame.
Thanks for having a look. The tram job is interesting itself. It looks simple but there are things that people don't see that make it complicated.
Wow I was always wondering how they change the direction during riding the tram!
Thank you for solving my curiosity
Thanks for having a look
Ah very interesting!! Great video 👍
Awesome video, I’m assuming this is also how it works in San Francisco Muni streetcar as well. Nice to see the red “T” and white lines indicating direction of travel on the signals. They are used in San Francisco too!
San Francisco has a confusing system when you first look at it. The principle is the same just a different light configuration.
Isn’t the Muni in SF just a single line?
Choo choo! I'm a train and I approve this video and would like to wish you a happy new year choo choo!
Thanks. Have a great 2022.
Excellent video, thank you for the information. We used to have very good tram networks here in NZ but they were all scrapped by 1956. Now, various councils are looking at reintroducting 'light rail' in some cities including Auckland.
Similar story everywhere isn't it! I'm sure Wellington will regret the day the trolley buses were removed as well!
@@Schony747 It has to be the boneheaded decision of the 21st century. They were only removed a couple of years ago - and replaced with fossil fueled buses! It's just insane.
I feel it was the same in the us just earlier. So many trams and trains.. all gone now
I too was a kid riding streetcars (trams) in Chicago since 1945, and wondering about switching directions. Your slick video really doesn't do much to explain it back in those days. Moving on, the term "tram" has been updated to include watercraft. In 2001, in Brisbane, OZ, we travelled across town on a catamaran, following the B. River thru town. JL
“Modern trams” my guy. The trains ur talking about are either in a museum or scrapped. He is talking about last century and this century trams, and how they work
Super video new friend. Thank you for sharing! Greeting from Vietnam.
Thanks for having a look 😀😀
Thanks for this very informative video on tram infrastructure. Keep 'em coming! Cheers from Wisconsin.
Thanks! I'll do my best. I just need time to put it all together.
Seems a bit antiquated if the driver has to select/change the points at every junction. On most modern UK (and European) systems the tram gets an automatic 'next trip' download to its computer at every terminus. Then, when the tram passes over the 'approach' induction loop, the onboard computer sends a signal to the point control box and the points change automatically before the tram reaches them. If for some reason the point fails to change to the correct direction, the driver brings his tram to a halt over the 'stop' induction loop and presses the 'RTS' (ready to start) button. (No need for him to select the direction as the system already knows this.) If that fails he contacts control and a demand is put in from the control room. As a last result the driver uses the bar to manually change the points.
The onboard computer also puts in demands for a 'proceed' where tram and road traffic signals work in conjunction and, once the tram has its 'proceed', the road signals remain at red until the tram has cleared the junction. At tram stops which are immediately followed by a tram/road junction, the driver waits till everyone has alighted/boarded and the doors are closed, then presses the RTS to change the points and change the road signal to red. (Note: This is why drivers are under instructions that once the doors are closed and the RTS button has been pressed, even though the tram hasn't left the stop, he's not allowed to open the doors again. If he were to do so, and then someone deliberately obstructs the doors, it can cause major delays to both the tram and other road users.) The control room can also put in a demand to change the tram/road signals remotely if the driver's RTS doesn't have the desired response.
Where a tram always traverses the points in the same direction (i.e. a single bi directional line into double track [one track in each direction]) the points are usually held in the correct direction by a spring. A PPI (points position indicator) shows the approaching driver that the points are correctly set. A tram entering the single line pushes through against the spring, which then returns to the correct setting. If they don't reset properly (a 'fault') an alarm is triggered in the control room and the next tram is warned by radio (in addition to the PPI indication).
Edited to add: "(and European)"
We have the points indicators etc even for our antiquated way of doing things. If the points fail we still use a point bar! Most of the trams have the system that you described I place on the tram now. All we need is the in track infrastructure to make it all work. Problem is someone has to pay for it to be introduced. I get your point. I've travelled in Europe as well and many systems have had the automatic system for years. Our system is over 100 years old. Even older if you include cable cars and we are still playing catchup.
Back when I was a boy it was so simple that no one needed to explain it...The operator of the streetcar had to get out with a big iron bar and manually switch the points and only then could he drive on...
And it still happens today at some locations or when the auto points fail from time to time.
Very informative for those of us living in parts of the world where there are no grand! Thanks....
Thanks for taking a look
I allways wondered how trams change routes in a switch. Simple radio technology and a few buttons. Nearly the same as regular trains, except in trains, someone else switches for the driver, somewhere else. :D
Thanks for this informative video revealing the mystery! :D
Thanks for looking. Simple technology that works (most of the time).
We live in Blackpool England and I have wondered about this, thanks for the informative video.
Thsnks for having a look. I think the heritage cars in Blackpool are great to ride on.
Very interesting. Taught this old Train Driver a few things I did not know!
Well we are never to young to learn. Trains and trams do have unique parts of the job no one would even think about!
Thankyou for this. Now I know.
Thanks for having a look.
Thanks for explaining this! I always wanted to know this. I wonder if it is similar here in the Netherlands or Belgium and Germany. The system could even be fully automated. If the tram transmits a line number to the switch controlling system, only a database of line numbers and corresponding point setting is required and the point can be set automatically by the system. However if a road is closed and a tram needs to take a different route temporarily, the system needs to know this. And at 10:21 you can just see that the point there is standing in the wrong position for this tram, but coming from the other side of the point the tram can simply move the point in the correct position. Thanks for sharing!
From what I can see of the rails, the Belgium system seems to be similar.
Maybe some systems are magnetic rather than with radio frequencies?
Otherwise I think they're pretty much all the same though.
No need to have the intelligence in the point system. The tram already needs to know the route for announcements and there are systems out there that will sent the matching point signals on their own. This, however, has lead to accidents because drivers expected a different direction for various reasons.
I sort of had a basic idea of how they worked, from watching all these videos! This was good as it filled in some of the blanks! Thanks! Great video!
Thanks for watching. It's not complicated once it's explained.
I don't know if this is still the case but a decade (or two) ago in Budapest they used to work like this: before the intersection, along a short section of the line, a "sled" is placed under the wire. If the driver "blips the throttle" when the pantograph is under this section, the strong current is picked up by the sled and this is the signal to the point for the change. If the tram just rolls through that section, nothing chages.
Before this system was introduced, a command was also sent through via the overhead above the tram as well.
Tram driving for Dummies! 😁 Thx 👍🏾😎 Greetings from Berlin 🇩🇪
Thanks for having a look. I've only seen parts of the Berlin system but I'm keen to go back for another look!
Thank you!!! I have been always curious about this as a transit lover
Thanks for taking a look 😀😀
ahhh I always wondered how this was done.... thanks!!!!
Thanks for having a look
Pls make a detail video on how actually tram is given acceleration , brakes , emergency especially in modern trams where we see lot of buttons all around. Loving all your videos, keep up the great work. Thanks!
Ill see what I can do. There are some YT media policies that may make it difficult.
Great video. Thanks for posting this. Have a nice day.
Thanks for having a look.
Ah I've always wondered. Thank you for this!
Thanks for looking. Interesting stuff isn't it!
Great vedio with explaining. Loved it. Brgds from mumbai india
Thanks for the video. It’s really interesting and I learnt something new today!
Thanks for having a look.
Thanks a lot, this has bothered me for many years, finally get it. And another question, what if it was jammed by stones, seems can be easily jammed.
It it's jammed by any objects, a point bar comes in handy otherwise the response crew comes out with a powerful pressure hose which normally fixes things.
The switch for trams look so much more subtle than trains.
Very much so and light weight compared to trains as well.
Interesting:) BTW, what is the failure rate for the electrically opoerated points? Also, when an operator has to manually throw a switch, does s/he have to reset tje switch once the car has passed?
The failure rate is not high but when something breaks, it can either be out for a few days in some cases while other failures are a quick reset of the electrics and clean. There is a dedocated team looking after the auto points. Once the points are changed, the next tram follows the same procedure and repeats the process.
Now I know. Very informative. Many thanks.
Thanks for having a look 😀😀
Some early 20th century streetcars (trams) in North America actually had a trap door near the motorman, which could be opened. The mororman used a long-handled tool to turn a device in the roadway to set the switch (points).
Something Melbourne had was a Bundy clock. Not points related but the bus or tram driver would get out and turn the key as it went past to show when the tram passed the point.
Wow, thanks for the information. 😁
Thanks for having a look
Thank you very much for information
Thanks for having a look
Got a feeling this system was first introduced by the MMTB in 1948. Many times when I walking to the corner of Carlisle Street and Brighton/St. Kilda Rd. I notice sometimes a No. 3 tram turning right into St. Kilda Rd, the driver had to change the points manually using that steel rod. Most times the driver can change the points inside the tram. You can hear the "click" When the points change.
I'm not sure of the exact date but before this current system, signals were placed through the overhead
@@Schony747 I think it was previous system that was introduced in 1948. I remember on a forum saying how a remote changing of the points were introduced in 1948.
Great info
Thanks for having a look.
Awesome. Thank you.
Thanks for looking. Sorry for the late reply
Love this. I understand so much more now!
It's pretty simple once it's explained.
Wow... Schony747, thank you so much. There are 11 idiots who did not understood anything and hence disliked the video.
That's ok. You get dislikes regardless. Thanks for having a look.
That’s very cool. It explains modern trams with electronics but I’m curious about where that doesn’t apply. How did it work in the 1960s or when the tramway is all cobblestone?
the old system was manual - the driver got out with a metal rod which he used to switch the points.
@@baird55aus Alternatively they used a short isolated section of overhead wire, where the current draw of the trams was measured. If the driver just coasted through that section nothing happened, but if he used power (either by actually running the motor, or by a switch that closed the circuit via a resistor) the points would change.
While electrically quite simple, this system was obviously prone to error. Eg. if the tram had to stop because of traffic and the driver then accelerated over the isolated section the point would change unexpectedly, which sometimes caused derailments or even accidents.
Another quality video Brendan.
Thanks again for having a look.
Thx. Excellent.
Thanks 😀😀😀😀
Brendan, I remember that back in the '70s trams were using power on/off to switch points. Can you tell me when the system change was made?
I'm not 100% sure when the system changed. I've been driving 17 years and the only thing that was left from the era you mentioned was the A class still cut off power to change the points until those trams were modified as well.
@@Schony747 Thank you Brendan. It must have been a pain if your speed was too slow so i can understand the change.
How to confuse a tram driver ? Put a steering wheel on the control panel .
Yeah like the trams in Zurich where the steering wheel is the throttle
Thanks!
Now I can sleep tight
And so can lots of others 😀😀
Very informative. Nice 👍.
I like to learn new things
Excellent. Thanks for looking.
At one stage, they used to have actual Singleman at some of the major inner-city intersections. Before my time.
There were officers placed around the system. Pre avm radio contact days, track phones and officers did all the communication to the control centre.
some trams do have „steering wheels“, but the wheels are only for breaking where i see alot of people saying this are „steering wheels“
Zurich is a good example where the steering wheel brakes and accelerates.
What would happen if a driver forgot to change the points and headed in the wrong direction? Just reverse back? Do you know of any instances where this has happened?
Trams have ended up going the wrong way. It doesn't happen very often but does happen. If it does you ring the operations centre and the operator gives you further instructions. We are not allowed to reverse a tram.
In Belgrade, Serbia,
If power is off, turounts stay as they are.
If power is on, they switch.
That was the system in Melbourne a number of years ago as well. Maybe it's more complicated in Melbourne as there are so many intersections where the tram can turn multiple ways.
That's cool because I always wondered that. I never see them change the points at Bourke and Spencer, but I do at Collins and Spring. Don't all trams have the auto point system?
Collins and Spring - unless you go over the transponder reeeealllly slowly, the points won't change automatically. It happens quite a bit there.
In Cleveland Ohio (Shaker Heights), they have a simpler system - the driver sticks their hand out the window and flips a switch on a pole. That was a long time ago however. They might have replaced it with a billion dollar central control center to be more efficient.
This system is very simple and effective when it works. Next on the agenda is a system that will chsnge points automatically without driver assistance.
Very educational.
Thanks! I enjoyed putting it together.
tram driving is a lot more complex than i used to think
The easy bit is starting and stopping the tram. If you have a few hours then I'll have time to explain the rest
I didn't know that. I thought somebody watching the front sign of trams at intersections changing it.
Years ago, large intersections had signal boxes for that purpose. The current system is old technology but still works well. Thanks for having a look.
Question: How do you change points with a W class?
I asked a MMTB inspector (remember them?) He said to turn you proceed in notch 1 around the curve. Otherwise you go straight through without power. You sometimes feel the tram cut off power as it goes ahead. In the depot where there are multiple points they are manually operated.
Same as any other tram. All trams have the same transponders underneath and a selection switch on the drivers panel.
@@Schony747 The Ws probably have the transponders and the point switch on the control panel now but there was a time when only the modern trams had the transponders and the Ws operated the points by proceeding in notch 1. Presumably they don’t do that any more if the Ws had transponders added in recent times.
Thank u for the information
Thanks for looking.
Hmm, it is either a coincidence or UA-cam can read minds and suggested me this video xD
You must have a mind linked to the YT algorithm. Thanks for having a look.
@@Schony747 thank you for the video, it was very informative
Did you know that the power pick up cable do not run straight , the pick up runs at an angle to prevent wear ( at one point on the cable)
Didn't know that. Thanks for letting me know. I'm not good with electronics
@@Schony747 It's not so much about electronics but simple physical wear. If the overhead wire were running in a straight line it would quickly "saw" through the pantograph. Therefore it runs in a zig-zag. But it's not so much a problem in tram networks, as they usually have lots of curves where the wire naturally doesn't run straight anyways.
ua-cam.com/video/BTzPMEJn7Ow/v-deo.html
I remember in the old days the driver had an iron bar, they had to get out of the tram, put in a slot in the middle of the road and push sideways like a lever..
It still happens from time to time when the points fail and there are still a few points that are still manual operation as well.
@@Schony747 Interesting - so the driver still has that iron bar handy then
Excellent video. Thanks.
Didn’t they used to, pre-electronics, use a different method where the driver had to be drawing power just before the points?
--
A friend of my father told me a story that in the 1950s, on Bourke Rd IIRC, my father had pressed the button to give the tram a green light, was spotted by police and got a fine equal to about a week’s wages. (I miss my Dad)
Exactly. The older systems often used an isolated section of overhead wire where the current draw was measured. If the tram just rolled through nothing happened, but if it used power the points changed to the other direction. Simple, but obviously very prone to error.
@@stephanweinberger thanks. So the driver would have to see the setting of the points, to know if they needed to be changed?
@@tjejojyj depends. In most cities I know there were indication lights.
Question, what happened to the times when the driver would walk out and change the points with a stick? Was that only when the button didn’t work? Or we’re older trams not fitted with the technology? Cuz I remember this only happening on Z’s, A’s and B’s.
Oh I didn’t watch the end of the video, but drivers on the older trams still did this all the time a few years ago, were the older trams fitted with this?
Exactly Howe it works here in gothenburg sweden to butt Why are the trams in this video sowe short here they are longer
The longer trams only started appearing from 1988 with the first articulated tram. Why we have shorter trams is also influenced by infrastructure such as tram stops and the ability to run much longer trams on our streets which is essentially a tram network shared with cars.
In other cities the current is collected by an arm that wraps around the overhead wire, like a trolleybus. How do they switch that? Has a tram ever gone wrong way and gotten into trouble? Can he reverse to get back on the route?
Trams do go the wrong was from time to time. The driver makes a phone call to the Operations centre and follows instructions. Previous to this system, points were changed through voltage running through the overhead.
"How do you steer a tram"
Skip to 4:00
Probably but I thought I would add some context to the overall video.
Thank you
This looks old-fashioned, but somehow safer than in places with newer systems, where points are set automatically long before the driver can properly see what is going on.
With those systems, do you know of any safeguards against points switching while a dog has a paw in the gap next to the rail or, worse, a child is trying to retrieve something that has fallen into the gap?
The dog should not be in the city.
@@coloradostrong Great defense, when the owner sues for astronomical vet's bills!
If dogs went out of fashion (not likely any time soon, though they are certainly overrated), that would still leave guide-dogs, which cost a fortune.
Should children not be in the city, either?
I miss Melbourne trams.... the route to the zoo is lovely.
Yes everyone in Melbourne loves trams unless you are stuck behind one in a car 😃😃
@@Schony747 Yaa 😂
So if you dont push button you go the wrong way? Has this ever happened? That would be my nightmare😀
The button is there to help the driver activate the T light only. It has nothing to do with point selection. Yes trams have gone the wrong way. Not often but it has happened
Is this now old technology as the rubber tired trackless tram has arrived? They are much more economical to install as no track installation required. Will we see more of them in the future?
This is pretty old technology. The basic principle will stay in Melbourne with an automated system where the driver plugs in a code and the tram will do the rest. Other systems have had it for years and we are still catching up. As for the buses, I'm sure jurisdictions will look at it for your mentioned reasons.
Is the Balaclava Grand Union (intersection where any tram can go in any direction) controlled in a similar manner or is it controlled by a local operator. Auckland in NZ had two grand unions when there were trams (phased out by 1956) and were controlled by a guy in a 'control tower'. The seat could be lifted so the guy could attend to his personal needs without leaving the tower (presumably it was serviced by a night cart).
It's controlled by the driver changing the automatic points on the drivers console. Many years ago I think there was a signal box which controlled movements.
I've always wondered how a tram was steered. Just kidding, but as a kid I used to like sitting up front of the old trams looking into the drivers compartment through the glass petition, which was either side of the wooden door into drivers compartment, and listening to the tram bogie force the points back to the direction of travel when they were entered from the direction where the driver did not have to alight as points faced away. The earlier trams from numbers 300 up to about 699, apart from a few exceptions, (I am not accurate there, somebody will correct me), were no good for watching the driver as the cabs did not go right across the front. I must have been quite a tram nerd back in the day.
Some points where spring loaded and changed like you say.
As a young boy i always liked trams. We lived in Camberwell road about a half kilometer from Camberwell Depot. I loved to watch the trams in the good old days👍
Peter, yes it's funny how we start to remember the so called "old days" when Brenden uploads his videos. Even his modern day stuff, which is great, sometimes makes you, (or me at least), think way back as well. Weird I know, but good as well. haha
@@125sloth Melbourne trams in the old days. No GPS tracking. The driver stoped a the end of every section and had to put a key in a box and the tram number was printed on a papier role. Tracking in the good old way👍😉
@@peterausfranken Yes the old paper roll. I didn't know what it did when a kid, but went to school with a Greek kid who's father was a tram driver. (why did I say Greek? only because many tram drivers were Greek actually) Anyway his father explained the whole system to us. It was actually excellent technology for its time. I am not a "collector" of tram tickets as such, but I found a heap of old unused Melbourne tram tickets (the ones from when they had conductors), when cleaning up some boxes not long ago. All still in good condition in numerical order still stapled in their pads. , the ones before decimal currency. Im glad now I never threw them out years ago.
Every Melbournian is a tram freak in some form.
I live in Quebec City, Canada, where we get lots of snow in winter -- not unheard of to get 30-45+ cm in a single storm. The city got rid of trams in the 1950s. And now, in their infinite wisdom, the city is in the final stages of route-planning to bring them back. However, I wonder how do you keep the points and the mechanisms that operate them free of ice and snow. Would they be kept heated by some fashion ? Would you have any idea how snowy cities deal with ice and snow on tram tracks and points ?
Wikipedia suggests that they use a combination of heaters and chemicals to keep the points clear of snow. Although it doesn't snow in Melbourne, so I don't think they would have any of these systems installed.
Melbourne is pretty basic. The mechanism is protected and kept dry with a metal faceplate over the points motors. To my knowledge that's it!
I always wonder how tram wheels on track was
Well now you know. Thanks for having a look.
What I always wonder is, what would happen should, through some series of blunders, if the tram made a turn in the wrong direction. Would the tram back up? Would all the passengers have to get off and wait for the next tram that goes in the right direction? Or finally, would the the tram convert to the route that normally takes the turn the tram mistakenly took?
The driver would ring the operations centre who would then advise the driver what to do. A driver reversing a tram is definitely a big no no and not allowed.
@@Schony747 depends on the local regulations. If the tram has just driven a few meters in the wrong direction there's usually no problem with reversing that short distance.
@@stephanweinberger Also depends if the trams are one-sided or double sided. A double-sided tram can just reverse at the next crossover point, which is a safe enough maneuver to do with passengers. Driving a one-sided tram in reverse is rarely acceptable with passengers; the passenger protections are not designed for bi-directional travel, the reversing command stand doesn't protect the driver from passenger interference and doesn't provide them with the needed visibility (e.g. inside and outside mirrors) to move the tram without a spotter on a public road. Assuming there even is a reversing command stand, some trams don't have them and need a spotting driver at the reversing end.
Meanwhile in Lodz, Poland, Tram drivers have to exit the vehicle use a lever to shift direction
I'm sure it's not the only network that still does that. How often does the driver have to change points?
It is useful
Yes very. Sometimes we still need to do the old fashion way when the auto points don't work.
I've seen similar mechanisms in Train Simulator Video Games and there was me thinking it was unrealistic that the driver operated points remotely from the cab
We still operate the old technology here I Melbourne. Most systems are moving towards the fully automated system where drivers do nothing. Our system is set up for the new technology, it hasn't been implemented yet.
Idk but is there tram bell moments with not a lot of noise?