Wow, that was the most impressive demonstration and explanation of knurling I’ve ever seen. So much information you want to watch it twice ! Thanks for such a detailed presentation.
I have watched it about 5 or 6 times now in my efforts to build a cut knurler using a Dorian SW4R-20. Now, after just a moment of inspection I can visualize how the 30 deg cut knurler cuts a straight knurl when rotated 30 deg downward around the X axis of my lathe and cuts a helix around the target cylinder. I expect my mind to be totally blown when the SW4L-20 is added to the equation!🤔
I think most machinists, tool makers etc don't even know these exist. I always hated knurling until l learned about these. All we had was the standard pressure knurlers and those were old and dull.
Great video! I’ve never heard of this technique before and I don’t know why. It may not be as quick but I t looks so much better than form knurling. I’m sure it will be easier on my spindle bearings also. Thanks.
Cut knurling when properly set up is actually faster than regular knurling tools. Regular diamond knurls require two cutters. One above and one below the centerline. SPI used to sell the tooling as does Hardinge to fit their own style quick change tool post for the HLV lathes. There may be some info in one of Hardinge's online catalogs. I would have to look if SPI (1) is even in business anymore. Looking up cut knurling on line Dorian and others sell them 🤌$$$🤌. Gadet Builder website has an article on building your own. But you would likely need to buy the wheels themselves. 1) Swiss Precision Instuments.
18:55 surely the second cut for the diamond pattern requires the spindle to run clockwise, so that it cuts rather than forms the thread? I note it is doing so in the second pass.
Yes, you are correct. I started the spindle in the forward direction, quickly realized my mistake, and reversed it. You’ll notice that when the spindle comes to a stop, it has been rotating in the correct direction.
Thank you so much. This looks so much easier and faster than forming straight knurls on long cylinders the way I have been doing it. I feel stupid for not knowing this before.
Good explanation. Especially the emphasis on chip removal. You didn't talk about the diameter of the work piece and the tooth pitch on the knurl. Is there some ratio of diameter/circumference to tooth pitch that needs mention?
Really excellent video! I notice that when cutting the diamond knurl second cut, the spindle is rotating in the conventional direction on commencing the first pass (18.55) but is reversed when it stops (19.22) which is a clever trick! I can understand the reverse direction as the work is then approaching the flat cutting face of the knurl.
A very astute observation. Yes, it works better if the spindle is reversed on the second cut (something I failed to mention in the video), however, by habit I started the spindle in the forward direction, stopped it, then put it in reverse, and just removed that section from the video, as I try to avoid subjecting the viewer to unnecessary footage.
Absolutely immaculate knurls. Thank you. Just one small suggestion: There is a slight pop in your microphone recordings. Other than that, perfect. Thank you.
The best video by far that I've seen explaining cut knurling! Do you not, however, have to reverse the lathe spindle when cutting the left handed side of the angled knurl?
I haven’t knurled stainless steel, but given the tendency of stainless to work harden, I would posit that cut knurling would produce a superior result.
I wish you'd made this video a month or so ago, heh. I've been playing with cut knurling but getting the angle and center height right is tricky. Also I'm using the regular cheap import knurl wheels with the bevel ground flat. Seems to work alright in aluminium but quite janky when used on mild steel. Also the whole process is incredibly messy with fine dust all over which gives me second thoughts... PS: thanks for making this video, very informative
You’ll probably get better results on steel with a name-brand knurling wheel. I find that the clearance angle isn’t all that critical. As for center height, make yourself a dummy knurling wheel with no teeth. Sandwich a straight machinist’s rule between the dummy and a small diameter (say 10mm or 3/8in) workpiece. Adjust the dummy knurl height up or down so that the rule is perpendicular to the cross slide, at which point the knurl will be on-center. Any way you slice it, knurling is messy.
@@mikelevyonline I tried again with some of your tips in the video and it does indeed produce nice crisp knurls on aluminium I think the compressed air helps a fair bit but it makes a god awful mess. I've ordered a pair of accutrak form knurling wheels to try out and will probably end up making an Aloris AT19 clone.
We had a cut knurling setup for the Hardinge HLVs were i retired from. One thing that would sometimes need to be allowed for was extra diameter on diameter being knurled. For quick and dirty knurls on jobs that were non spec. Personal or special hand tools being made for production use. Knurled heads on screws etc. Hand knurlers are nice too. But cut knurling beats all methods hands down
If making you own holders for cut knurlers l would suggest machining the cutting relief into the body of the holder. For dovetal type tool posts l personally always prefered to set them at 0° offeet as my insert tooling was then at the proper orientation. My HSS tooling was also ground to be in the correct orientation. All of my threading and chamfering tools in HSS as well as special grooving and trappaning tools for O-Ring grooves were finish ground on a surface grinder in fixtures purpose made.
That idea has merit-I also like to position my tool holders at 90 degrees to the spindle axis, however if I want to change the clearance angle of the cut knurler I would prefer to rotate the tool inside the holder rather than rotate the entire tool post.
@@mikelevyonline The primary reason l started doing it was to eliminate the adjusting the tool post constantly. I had my own A series tool post and l ground the inside face of the tool slot parallel with the faces of the dovetail. The drawings we would get in the last years before l retired started coming in with chamfers anywhere from 10° to 45°. So l made up ones with 45, 30, 25, 20 and 15°. For threading tools I had blocks for 60°, 29° Acme and 60° offset 30° for internal threading. For odd angles and form tools l used a block with a rotating head with a 7° clearance angle built in.
Wow, what a great video! Thank you! A couple of questions: 1) can pressure knurling tools be ground flat (removing the chamfer) for use as a cut knurling tool? 2) on the shop-made round-shank cut knurl tool holder, is it important to put the flat for the knurling tool at the center of the round shank? 3) lastly, can knurls be used to create rotary broach tools to cut female splines, or are the forms different?
1) Yes. 2) No, but if you're doing a lot of diamond knurling, it's wise to place the point of knurl/workpiece contact on the shank/head axis, so you don't have to reset the center height when the tool is rotated to the second position. 3. The forms are different.
Great video - thank you! It’s still not entirely clear to me how the cutting action happens. I understand that it’s at the edge of the wheel that is angled into the material. But I don’t understand yet the precise geometry: what are the rake angles, clearance angles, and which edge exactly is the cutting edge?
It’s the kind of thing you want to explore with a slow-mo camera and a macro lens (I love those videos). BTW, I’m super-impressed by how clean the knurls are. With the standard method, even when very well-done, you can still always see that the material is gouged.
Great video, very clearly explained, thank you. I've been machining for over sixty years and learned something! Two questions- with normal knurling there is a relationship between the pitch of the wheels and the diameter of the work piece, doe that apply here? Also, if you put a cut on and feed the tool gently in, will it not pick up on the already cut bit as it is like a little gear? Third question, are you metric? Thanks again, Al.
I find that the knurling wheel will track on any random diameter, and yes, it will pick up on the cut made by the previous pass. My lathe is imperial, with dual imperial/metirc dials.
Excellent vid 😊 One question. If you think of the knurled part like a gear or spline, will it sometimes create like a half knurl or tooth? Or is it always cutting a full knurl? Or is there a way of calculating based on the material diameter?
bonjour très bonne video je vais en faire un ,peut tu me dire si c'est une molette speciale ou la molette d'un outil a moleter classique peut elle convenir ,merci pour ta réponse cdlt Daniel
As with 'thread milling' instead of 'single point threading', a process requiring far less pressure! Minor detail, the pattern mentioned is 'helical' not 'spiral' as my Engineering Drawing teacher once insisted!
Works fine on 303. I haven’t tried other stainless alloys or tool steel, but I suspect it would produce superior results to form knurling on any material that has a tendency to work harden.
I gues 'tubalcain mrpete machinist' would call these knurls crisp. I had an idea to make one of these clamp knurling tools, but for what. This is perfect.
I'm watching this in depth but still can't see how it's doing the cutting... How is the knurl wheel cutting if it's turning with the workpiece... I'm a bit baffled.
Remember that the knurl wheel is also moving laterally with respect to the workpiece, and this is the main impetus for the shearing action that takes place.
Wow, that was the most impressive demonstration and explanation of knurling I’ve ever seen. So much information you want to watch it twice !
Thanks for such a detailed presentation.
Thank you so much!
I have watched it about 5 or 6 times now in my efforts to build a cut knurler using a Dorian SW4R-20. Now, after just a moment of inspection I can visualize how the 30 deg cut knurler cuts a straight knurl when rotated 30 deg downward around the X axis of my lathe and cuts a helix around the target cylinder. I expect my mind to be totally blown when the SW4L-20 is added to the equation!🤔
Very nice! I've always found cut knurling tools to be rather exotic and expensive. This setup seems more approachable.
Yes, the tool can be a straightforward do-it-yourself project.
Excellent presentation. Cut knurlers are the bees knees
Yes indeed.
I think most machinists, tool makers etc don't even know these exist. I always hated knurling until l learned about these. All we had was the standard pressure knurlers and those were old and dull.
I loved the video, I have not seen this covered before. I learned alot. Thanks for an excellent video.
me too
Thanks, glad it was helpful.
Great video! I’ve never heard of this technique before and I don’t know why. It may not be as quick but I t looks so much better than form knurling. I’m sure it will be easier on my spindle bearings also. Thanks.
Thanks for stopping by.
Cut knurling when properly set up is actually faster than regular knurling tools. Regular diamond knurls require two cutters. One above and one below the centerline. SPI used to sell the tooling as does Hardinge to fit their own style quick change tool post for the HLV lathes. There may be some info in one of Hardinge's online catalogs. I would have to look if SPI (1) is even in business anymore.
Looking up cut knurling on line Dorian and others sell them 🤌$$$🤌. Gadet Builder website has an article on building your own. But you would likely need to buy the wheels themselves.
1) Swiss Precision Instuments.
Definitely easier on the machine
Excellent tutorial! I’m at the point of wanting to try some knurling and this was a huge help. Thank you
Thanks, glad you found it useful.
This just popped up in my feed. Great stuff here Mike.I will have to see what else you have here on You Tube. Cheers
Thanks for stopping by.
18:55 surely the second cut for the diamond pattern requires the spindle to run clockwise, so that it cuts rather than forms the thread? I note it is doing so in the second pass.
Yes, you are correct. I started the spindle in the forward direction, quickly realized my mistake, and reversed it. You’ll notice that when the spindle comes to a stop, it has been rotating in the correct direction.
Thank you Michael, more knurling information here than I have ever seen in all my reading and watching videos....
cheers from Central Florida, Paul
Thanks for taking the time to comment.
Thank you so much. This looks so much easier and faster than forming straight knurls on long cylinders the way I have been doing it. I feel stupid for not knowing this before.
Thanks, hope it works out for you.
Superb tutorial!
I have always had mixed sucess with pressure formed knurling; this method is the answer. Thank you!.
Glad it was helpful, thanks for stopping by.
What you have done is all new to me (I'm a watcher not a lathe worker). I have even joined your club - subscribed.
Thanks for stopping by..
Thank you for a clear & very well explained, demystification of cut knurling.
Thanks for stopping by, glad you found it informative.
Top notch instruction! Do you get the same quality on every diameter?
Good explanation. Especially the emphasis on chip removal. You didn't talk about the diameter of the work piece and the tooth pitch on the knurl. Is there some ratio of diameter/circumference to tooth pitch that needs mention?
No, the knurl will usually track on any random diameter.
Awesome! Very informative! I'm definitely going to try this some day.
Thanks for stopping by.
Really excellent video! I notice that when cutting the diamond knurl second cut, the spindle is rotating in the conventional direction on commencing the first pass (18.55) but is reversed when it stops (19.22) which is a clever trick! I can understand the reverse direction as the work is then approaching the flat cutting face of the knurl.
A very astute observation. Yes, it works better if the spindle is reversed on the second cut (something I failed to mention in the video), however, by habit I started the spindle in the forward direction, stopped it, then put it in reverse, and just removed that section from the video, as I try to avoid subjecting the viewer to unnecessary footage.
i was an CNC lathe operator for over 10 years and didn't know about this kind of technique edit: cut knurling
It seems that this technique is not as widely known as it should be.
Absolutely immaculate knurls. Thank you. Just one small suggestion: There is a slight pop in your microphone recordings. Other than that, perfect. Thank you.
Thanks, and yes, I need to acquire a better microphone.
The best video by far that I've seen explaining cut knurling! Do you not, however, have to reverse the lathe spindle when cutting the left handed side of the angled knurl?
Edit: Looking again, I see that you did reverse the spindle.
You are correct. I accidentally started the spindle forward, then reversed it, but didn't include the switch in the video.
@@mikelevyonline I'm wondering how the dual cutter knurling tools work since the workpiece only rotates in one direction.
@@npalen Great observation. It may have something to do with the knurls being considerably above and below the centerline.
Merci pour les explications très claires. Je viens d'essayer : ça fonctionne parfaitement. Un grand merci a vous
Merci pour votre commentaire.
Pfah! Us old-school machinist do it by hand with gun stock checkering tools. Seriously, though, nice work and very informative. Thanks for sharing it.
😁
Interesting. Does cut knurling do a better/deeper job on stainless steel than a regular compression knurl ? Cheers Rob
I haven’t knurled stainless steel, but given the tendency of stainless to work harden, I would posit that cut knurling would produce a superior result.
@@mikelevyonline I suspect you are right. I have compression knurled stainless steel and the impress was quite shallow. Cheers Rob
I wish you'd made this video a month or so ago, heh. I've been playing with cut knurling but getting the angle and center height right is tricky. Also I'm using the regular cheap import knurl wheels with the bevel ground flat. Seems to work alright in aluminium but quite janky when used on mild steel. Also the whole process is incredibly messy with fine dust all over which gives me second thoughts...
PS: thanks for making this video, very informative
You’ll probably get better results on steel with a name-brand knurling wheel. I find that the clearance angle isn’t all that critical. As for center height, make yourself a dummy knurling wheel with no teeth. Sandwich a straight machinist’s rule between the dummy and a small diameter (say 10mm or 3/8in) workpiece. Adjust the dummy knurl height up or down so that the rule is perpendicular to the cross slide, at which point the knurl will be on-center. Any way you slice it, knurling is messy.
@@mikelevyonline thanks,,,really enjoyed this
@@mikelevyonline I tried again with some of your tips in the video and it does indeed produce nice crisp knurls on aluminium
I think the compressed air helps a fair bit but it makes a god awful mess. I've ordered a pair of accutrak form knurling wheels to try out and will probably end up making an Aloris AT19 clone.
Excellent! Detailed video on a topic not well covered.
Glad it was helpful!
Thank you for the video, very informative and well presented.
Glad you enjoyed it!
We had a cut knurling setup for the Hardinge HLVs were i retired from. One thing that would sometimes need to be allowed for was extra diameter on diameter being knurled. For quick and dirty knurls on jobs that were non spec. Personal or special hand tools being made for production use. Knurled heads on screws etc. Hand knurlers are nice too.
But cut knurling beats all methods hands down
If making you own holders for cut knurlers l would suggest machining the cutting relief into the body of the holder. For dovetal type tool posts l personally always prefered to set them at 0° offeet as my insert tooling was then at the proper orientation. My HSS tooling was also ground to be in the correct orientation. All of my threading and chamfering tools in HSS as well as special grooving and trappaning tools for O-Ring grooves were finish ground on a surface grinder in fixtures purpose made.
That idea has merit-I also like to position my tool holders at 90 degrees to the spindle axis, however if I want to change the clearance angle of the cut knurler I would prefer to rotate the tool inside the holder rather than rotate the entire tool post.
@@mikelevyonline
The primary reason l started doing it was to eliminate the adjusting the tool post constantly. I had my own A series tool post and l ground the inside face of the tool slot parallel with the faces of the dovetail. The drawings we would get in the last years before l retired started coming in with chamfers anywhere from 10° to 45°. So l made up ones with 45, 30, 25, 20 and 15°. For threading tools I had blocks for 60°, 29° Acme and 60° offset 30° for internal threading. For odd angles and form tools l used a block with a rotating head with a 7° clearance angle built in.
Wow, what a great video! Thank you! A couple of questions: 1) can pressure knurling tools be ground flat (removing the chamfer) for use as a cut knurling tool? 2) on the shop-made round-shank cut knurl tool holder, is it important to put the flat for the knurling tool at the center of the round shank? 3) lastly, can knurls be used to create rotary broach tools to cut female splines, or are the forms different?
1) Yes.
2) No, but if you're doing a lot of diamond knurling, it's wise to place the point of knurl/workpiece contact on the shank/head axis, so you don't have to reset the center height when the tool is rotated to the second position.
3. The forms are different.
Wow, that looks like the way to go...
Great video - thank you! It’s still not entirely clear to me how the cutting action happens. I understand that it’s at the edge of the wheel that is angled into the material. But I don’t understand yet the precise geometry: what are the rake angles, clearance angles, and which edge exactly is the cutting edge?
That's a great question, and I believe there are very few people on this planet who can answer it. Nevertheless, the process works, and works well.
It’s the kind of thing you want to explore with a slow-mo camera and a macro lens (I love those videos). BTW, I’m super-impressed by how clean the knurls are. With the standard method, even when very well-done, you can still always see that the material is gouged.
Love your work. Thank you
Thanks for stopping by.
Nice! Could the knurling wheel be cut with the proper tooth profile for cutting gear teeth instead of simple knurling? Asking for a friend.
In principle I suppose it’s possible.
Inspiring! Do you find that using compressed air as shown tends to force the chips into the slides, etc?
No, but it is a bit messy.
Just PERFECT ! .....Thank you !
Glad you liked it!
Great video, learned lots of things! Thanks!
Glad you found it informative.
👍Great Video 👍
Thank you!
Great video, very clearly explained, thank you. I've been machining for over sixty years and learned something! Two questions- with normal knurling there is a relationship between the pitch of the wheels and the diameter of the work piece, doe that apply here? Also, if you put a cut on and feed the tool gently in, will it not pick up on the already cut bit as it is like a little gear? Third question, are you metric? Thanks again, Al.
I find that the knurling wheel will track on any random diameter, and yes, it will pick up on the cut made by the previous pass. My lathe is imperial, with dual imperial/metirc dials.
What knurling tool is that (Brand / Type?)
I haven't seen one that you could index at an angle like that
They are available commercially but very expensive. The one in the video is homemade.
Looks like hand filed checkering. Nice
Excellent vid 😊
One question.
If you think of the knurled part like a gear or spline, will it sometimes create like a half knurl or tooth? Or is it always cutting a full knurl?
Or is there a way of calculating based on the material diameter?
My experience is that it will track on any random diameter, thus always cutting a full knurl.
bonjour très bonne video je vais en faire un ,peut tu me dire si c'est une molette speciale ou la molette d'un outil a moleter classique peut elle convenir ,merci pour ta réponse cdlt Daniel
Une molette classique sans biseau fera l’affaire.
Can this method be used for internal knurling too?
I have not investigated that.
Wow I learned something new, cool!
Thanks, glad you found it informative.
What a fantastic video
Thanks so much!
Very impressive video, I just with more UA-cam creators could make videos like this.
Thank you for the very gracious comment.
Brilliant! Thanks for sharing.
My pleasure!
As with 'thread milling' instead of 'single point threading', a process requiring far less pressure!
Minor detail, the pattern mentioned is 'helical' not 'spiral' as my Engineering Drawing teacher once insisted!
how dose the knerl tool pick up the same groove im lost on this part
It just naturally falls into the track made on the previous pass.
How about Stainless, or tool steel?
Works fine on 303. I haven’t tried other stainless alloys or tool steel, but I suspect it would produce superior results to form knurling on any material that has a tendency to work harden.
awesome work
Thanks, I appreciate your comment.
I gues 'tubalcain mrpete machinist' would call these knurls crisp. I had an idea to make one of these clamp knurling tools, but for what. This is perfect.
The knurles are so clean they look like splines or gears.
Thanks for stopping by.
Very informative thanks
Thanks, glad it was helpful.
I'm watching this in depth but still can't see how it's doing the cutting... How is the knurl wheel cutting if it's turning with the workpiece... I'm a bit baffled.
Remember that the knurl wheel is also moving laterally with respect to the workpiece, and this is the main impetus for the shearing action that takes place.
good looking knurl
Thanks!
Never seen that before.
Nice
Thanks for stopping by.
Wonder if this is how car manufactures cut splines, would be fast
First thought when I saw the cut knurlong was a spline . Wonder if you could make a internal one to make a planetary gearset with one
Sweeeet🎉
Nice