7 Ways to Write BETTER Songs!
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- Опубліковано 22 тра 2024
- Are your "songs" nothing more than a collection of riffs, clichés, and cookie-monster vocals? Tired of people hitting the "next" button when your song plays? Here are some ideas to help! Get Trey's Metal Songwriting course here: howsongsaremade.teachable.com...
0:00 Combatting Boredom With Better Songwriting
1:41 Write Shorter Songs
3:54 Enough With The Riff Salad
5:32 Guitars Are Not A Song
7:07 Trey Xavier Songwriting Course
9:03 You're Doing Too Much!
11:01 Sing & Harmonize
12:18 Enough With The Lyric Clichés
13:38 Hooks
15:03 Final Words & Endscreen
About Spectre Sound Studios:
I'm Glenn Fricker, engineer here at Spectre Sound Studios. I love making records, and after doing it for sixteen years, I want to pass on what I've learned. On my channel you can find tutorials on how to record guitar, bass, real drums and vocals. There's reviews and demos of tube amps, amp sims, drums, mics, preamps, outboard gear, Electric Guitar, Bass Guitar, and plugin effects.
We've covered Moon on the Water, played Bias FX, given you the absolute best in Stupid Musician Texts, ranted & raved about bass guitar, and this channel is where The Eagle has Landed.
Everything you've wanted to learn about recording Hard Rock & Heavy Metal can be found right here on this channel!
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C'mon, we need another song with the lyrics, "Don't know where I'm going, but I sure know where I've been." Just ONE more! 😝
Right? Right?!
"I was walking down the street, not sure who I could meet, I felt something in my brain, I think I'm going insane"
Them voices in my head
Wishin I was dead!
These feels that I've been feelin is for reals!
It be timin to be a rhymin!
Metaphors and similes
To understand
What I mean
You'll need a dictionary!
It's self explanatory!
Sup mike
five finger death punch moment
The thing songwriters don't understand about long songs is, if the riffs are good enough to be repeated for 10 minutes, the listener could just put the song on repeat if it was 4 minutes long instead
Not only that, but those songs usually go somewhere are aren't actually just sitting on the one riff for ten minutes (even if they might come back to that riff later on in the piece)
Exactly. I could listen to 2112 any day. Why? Cause it’s fun to listen to.
Personally I prefer to split 10 minute songs of epicness into a "full album" of 34 grindcore/pv microsongs 😅
I happen to love Tool’s Third Eye that’s like 15 minutes long
Because those little pauses will ruin the flow, and you'll lose the groove.
GLENNNNNN HOW COULD U SAY THIS!!!! MY 13 MINUTE TECH DEATH MASTERPIECE WILL REVOLUTIONIZE WHAT
MUSIC IS. THE GROWLED VOCALS AND 9 MINUTE SWEEP PICKED GUITAR SOLOS NEVER GET OLD!!!!!
Fucking awesome. Where can I buy it.
The problem is not the lengthof solos, but the repetition of it because they ran out of ideas. Marshall Harrison is exploring doing classical piano pieces on guitar & it's a good way 2 at least keep things moving (though classical is repetitious 2), & he is very sloppy, unless he's playing slow blues things, which he is amazing at but avoids, like he avoids chords because his gear is trash & he doesn't intonate his bridges right so all really harsh LOL
DON'T FORGET 300BPM PROGRAMMED DRUMS, IT'S A MUST CAUSE US GUITARISTS NEED MORE TIME TO PRACTICE KISSING THE MIRROR!
metal just became fucking noise with these garbabe sub genres
@@chris6six By the word 'already' U R implying that that there is no point doing it because they did it, like 'I've already tried candy' when somebody offers U candy, as if all candy is the same & there is no point looking into different types of candy LOL People should stop lookign to 'Western' music 4 inspiration, including classical, which is very boring compared 2 Middle Eastern. 'Early Music' (pre-classical) is interesting though =)
14:22 "Im not a great songwriter, this is just stuff you inherently pick up by examining your favorite songs" THANK YOU. Imagine paying $500 for a songwriting course.
It's from Tray actually.
What's wrong with paying for a course if it helps you write better songs? Sometimes you might be missing something when you examine songs and it just isn't getting through to you.
I think this video shows well what Glens message is: he wants metal to be "popular" again. Which I can't blame him for, some of the greatest music ever was written during those times (metallica, priest, maiden, so on). Personally, as a person who enjoys metal from all decades and genres, I believe the path forward lies somewhere in the middle. Technical playing and growling has its place but the classics can also be a blueprint to separate from the endless sea of modern metal. I think bands like Rivers of Nihil (Owls & Work albums specifically) can be a good telling of what I'm trying to say, and I feel like Glenn doesn't know about bands like that.
He deffinetly doesnt considering the ammount of blanket statements against modern metal he puts in all his videos
So I just looked Rivers of Nihil up. Their first album had 4 songs 3 minutes long, No song was beyond 5 minutes. And as I write this - listening to The Silent Life - this is the kind of song Glenn WANTS to hear from new bands. Rivers of Nihil makes his point.
I mean I think that's missing the point a little. He's not talking about what bands are already out there, this is for those who are wanting to be like Rivers of Nihil. He's talking about his experience of what he receives from newer musicians. Most people copy bands like Rivers of Nihil or Vildjharta but miss the point of how they structure their songs and the actual approach. There's a reason why you go back to Rivers of Nihil and not the thousand of smaller bands that sound just like them that are trying to get popular. He's not saying there are no modern metal bands, but the people who are trying right now to make it need to get better. We can sit here and say "well this band actually does this Glenn and they're modern metal," or we can look at the bigger picture. I'm pretty sure he'd be just as critical of a judas priest rip off band if they didn't have the skills or songwriting chops.
Not popular but better and less boring.
Feel always trumps technique.
Melody first then tone of voice,growling is fine but at least one more type of voice,and hamonise those like Carcass
World ethnic rhytms have been at the core of such bands like Atheist,Pestilence,Death,Sepultura,Kreator,etc.Lots of latin grooves there just for small example.
@@withinthrall1445 It's a mistake 2 pretend U will get popular by following some rule set, because the chances R very slim even if U R awesome at it. Assume that U will never make N E $ @ it & PLAY WHAT YOU WANT TO HEAR! =) If other people find that entertaining then GR8! =D Don't WA$TE your time trying 2 B some contrived thing. It comes off lame, like Blink 182 'this is growing up' song I remember some guy next door in Lost Angeles mixing over & over & I'm all 'WTF is thisnerdy children's cartoon garbage = so boring & predictable!' =)) It $old well, but that doesn't mean U should do it. Play what U actually LIKE & maybe the $ & 'praise' & 'popularity' & 'pussy' (??) will follow ~;-D & that's another thing = don't get into it 4 'women', because like cars if U just directly $pent that on whores U would get a lot more 'holes' LOL Love doesn't give a fuk what U drive. They want U 4 yor hot bod & the beauty of your opinions =D
My tips:
(1) Don Dokken should never be your lyrical north star
(2) Never use the phrase 'wishing well' in any lyric ever (see item one above)
(3) Rarely does your first set of lyrics not suck. Sure, there's that one phrase that's good but then you start building garbage around that
(4) Just because you wrote a song does not mean its good
(5) Listen to your 'song' like you hate it and it's that song you hear on the radio that you would turn off. Then use your producer ear to hear why. Step outside of yourself.
(6) Verse > Bridge > Chorus can be both awesome and boring. Know the difference.
(7) Settle down with all the song structure changes and time changes. They key to anything in life is moderation. Except coffee. Coffee by the gallon
(8) You're not John Petrucci (or fill in the blank with a world class shredder) so stop trying so hard to prove your guitar chops. A good simple riff will kill every time. These shredders know that.
(9) Remember that the bass, in a skilled musicians hands (ie - that 1% of bass players), is an actual instrument and can be used quite effectively when, maybe, you should give the guitar riff a rest.
Years (and years) ago, myself and a partner had a small record label. We had decent distribution and put out out a couple dozen releases (no way to make a living though). We got well over a thousand demos unsolicited. Pretty much all of it was hot garbage. HOT.STINKY.GARBAGE. Of all of the unsolicited stuff, two (TWO) stood up. One we release and another had already sold quite a lot by the artists themselves so it had limited market. TWO out of well over a thousand demos. TWO. Most of the time, you're not awesome. Glenn Frey explains that Jackson Browne (yes, the old fogies) got up in the morning spending hours working on a small part of a song until it was right. Hours. Good songwriting take work like a job does.
Animals from the Architects its a easy riff but amazing song.
TLDR
Well you've been around!! lol Great tips, thanks for sharing. And pretty accurate ratio of good to bad songs lol As a sound tech for a bunch of local bars, I've done plenty of original acts. Pretty much the last thing I want to hear when I get a gig is that it's an all original act. I'd much rather do a cover band at the bar level. Ironically though, I just met a local writer who I am working with that I swear made a deal with the devil! He's writing stuff that's a pure joy to listen to! Like 15 songs in less than two years. He may have been number three out of that thousand demos you got lol. Cheers
I especially liked the part about Coffee.
Always let your shitty shitty shitty riff/collections rest for at least 2 months. Do you honestly still like it? You might be on to something good if you do.
You're, hopefully, gonna be canning at least 90% of your tired riffs when you get older. You're gonna start liking that weird jazzy blues-stuff a lot more, because at least they often hit combinations that haven't been utterly done to death, then beaten with a noob-tuned out of shape hockey-stick for the next 20 years.
It can be nice or annoying when you can hear what notes they're playing, the first time you hear it (e.g. C-D-Em-Em stuff or the usual chromatic Metallica-variant).
WTF man but what if I like Sabbath's Wishing Well
I agree with everything except your take on screaming type vocals. As you said you can distinguish between Halford, Hetfield, and Johnson, you can also DEFINITELY distinguish between Corpsegrinder, Schuldiner, and Joe from Gojira. You can still scream and be unique.
Yeah, if you have hooks to be remembered in the first place
@@umrasangus No. Each of the vocalists he listed has a very distinct sound that you could differentiate easily by listening to the isolated vocal track. The amount of techniques there are for growled/harsh vocals is much larger than many people give credit.
Its a fucking Glenn video what do you expect
Hit the nail right on the head!
That depends, maybe not the average metal fan has a trained ear to notice this. Of course you will if you're a musician or die hard metal fan of the specific genre. I think what he meant is that in general guttural vocals and screams naturally are harder to distinguish.
My goodness. Listen to "Burn" by Deep Purple. That song contains just about every tip Glenn just gave.
Nobel Prize in Metal goes to Glenn this year for this video. I'm really pleased to hear someone take a stand against the Cookie Monster vocals. Enough already!
I just listened to that. If you’re looking for something new, check out Band-Maid. There’s some Deep Purple influence to them and they’re just a joy to listen to. They follow every tip Glenn laid out, too. It’s honestly some of the catchiest hard rock/prog rock/metal that I’ve heard in decades. And they’re absurdly prolific, so just let yourself fall into the rabbit hole because you won’t be sorry.
not metal
One of their less appreciated pieces but one of my favorites from them. Glad to see some recognition (Even if it has 4.7 M views... it needs more!)
I’m a classic metal vocalist
And Cookie Monster vocals are so weak.
Singers don’t want to put the work in to get really good anymore, it takes time and tons of practice.
@@killergrooves2438 Yep. They are something else.
Another thing that helps is keeping all of your lyrics and idea notes in a folder. And never throw anything away. Don't throw out demos either. Years later you can come back and work on some of the old songs or song ideas when you are having a creative dry spell. A song idea that ran into a dead-end years ago might turn out to be a great song idea, one that you are now better prepared to finish. Over time you will build up an archive of songs and ideas. What ends up being the killer chorus in a new song could be the bridge part taken from an old song you had abandoned.
i disagree. i too have 30yrs of odd bits and pieces. it was a cathartic experience to just delete 1/2 of my archive. Why? because it sucked. It was infantile. It was boring. I dont rely on history when i write new songs. Every song has a life of its own, trying to cram an idea from 30yrs ago just isnt my thing anymore. If you cant arrange a song, non of those pieces you have sitting out the back are of any use anyway. Its just clutter that is like a prison wall of ideas.
Even a bad idea, lyric, riff, whatever, that doesn't fit or make sense 30 years ago can be something that can be massaged into something new and appreciable down the line.
@@andyfreeze4072 You might be a bit harsh on your own archive, but if thats what works for you then by all means go for it. Some composers threw their early works on the fire, started over from scratch. Others would pull out early pieces and rework them later in life. To each songwriter their own.
Yep. I keep all my lyric notepads of unused ideas. I go back to it regularly and cherry-pick things that can complement whatever I’m currently working on.
@@psychochicken9535 as somebody said to me, that may work for you. Me, i am always looking for fresh ideas. And i didnt say i threw everything out. There are bits that stood the test of time, but half of them were junk. its the hoarding , just in case, well its a well known symptom in psychology class, lol
As a musician myself (okay, guitar player, not musician 😂) I absolutely love listening to the epic 10-14 minute long songs Dream Theater writes. But then when I have my friends that are not musicians and just your average music listener listen to it, I can see their eyes start to glaze over then start talking about something completely unrelated after no more than 4 minutes.
As much as I love Dream Theater, I'm a guitar player too. A huge chunk of Dream Theater fans are also musicians. And even then, if there was a Dream Theater concert and a Judas Priest concert on the same day, I'd go to Judas Priest, no questions asked.
But we have to understand that,they dont listen music the same way,for them music listening is like eating food,for us is life...and people are the most generic they ever were in history id say,why?
You needed to buy a record baxk in the day,and guess what you lost yourself in your own world witb one record and you become that,less competition,less bullshit after WW2 before streaming platforms and internet...it just used to be music for the peopel that love music,now everyone listens to music and 90% are listening just to stimulate their senses,and you MUST please those numbers if you want to get somewhere,ive heard many artits say "you cant make it,ive tried with my tech death metal band and it didnt work" obviously it wont,its shit ik...but you must adapt to whats popular today,and use your originality mixed with whats trendy
Nerd
There is a big difference between what musicians like and what everyone else likes. There is a ton of crossover, but it's a noticeable difference
@@spacebomb9126 Yep! Geek too!
Alice In Chains are still the best example of amazing vocal harmonies that I can think of in hard rock/metal. Whether it's Jerry and Layne or Jerry and William, just the way their music comes together, their vocal performance is a unique contribution to the song and not a paint by numbers cliche fest.
arent they all just parallel 5ths? he's just making a powerchord with the vocals.
I was about to write what the other guy already said.
Couldn't you come up with a better example than the band with harmonies that use exactly one (1) interval in all of their songs? 😂
Hey Glenn, this is a bit of a long one, but for the TLDR crowd, I think this is a bigger problem: lacking a cohesive structure! I work at a University library and believe me, having writing classes, hooks, and developing and completing a cohesive idea isn't something people really learn anymore in research writing, and I think this lack of learning how to narrate ideas through writing in school also has been why so many amateur songs are just that. Amateur. People don't know the basics of developing writing, be it song writing or other forms of writing.
As a guy who used to work for 'perfection' in a song, I realized I never finished writing songs. Songs would be half-finished for years. After speaking with band mates about what we find interesting in songs, I learned that you need the motif or theme, and less is more. Since I've started approaching song writing with more limitations, I've been able to write much better songs, actually finish them, and find unique ways to get my ideas across. I basically look for three parts in my song writing process:
- What is the intro?
- What is the verse?
- What is the chorus?
Once I have those elements, I have the song and can start making variations that expand the song. Then, the smaller stuff, like bridges or breakdowns come easy because they are such small parts of the song.
I just made a comment on this as well. I listen to lots of underground songs and the ones that don't "grab" tend to be the ones that lack a formula or structure all around. Lyrics for instance....Try fitting 4 completely different lyrical subjects in a song... there is no cohesion with that right? People would be like "What are these lyrics getting at?" Sounds like a "no duh" type of thing but I run into that sometimes with peoples songs. Kinda like you were saying... it almost seems like there was a lack of theme.
The same goes with arrangement. The more technical things get, the more it seems like people want to stray from the path of a solid structure/formula composition wise. "I will throw in a 3 minute evolving break section here randomly....this is gonna be sick."
Or just steal bits from 3 or more different foreign songs U like that R NOT 'metal' & 'metalize' them & it then is 'unique' & U won't get $ued =) Lot of Turkish & Middle Eastern type things really slam if U 'westernize' the melodies a bit, & really a lot better than 'the same old thing', like how Middle Eastern music uses violins way better than 'Classical' does.
Interesting observation. I tutor college music students, and so many of them struggle when writing papers. They can't turn outlines and ideas into sentences and paragraphs, literally can't put words together. Lack of being taught how to do this, living in a tweet-length attention span world, all of the above, I don't know. It seems weird to me.
@@dewdmcman4321 Or better, analyse classical music (or any music with a hint of complexity), and try to find patterns in it; and implement that for writing metal. And learn the "rules" (in order to break them).
U spew a zillion words yet fart nonsense 'alphabet soup' like' TLDR = LOL Talk regular =)
Breaking The Law is the perfect example. A killer intro with an uncomplicated hooky riff, Rob's distinctive vocal timbre, a change in dynamics between verse, pre-chorus and chorus, and a simple punchy earwormy chorus.
Sabaton is a really good example to the things you've pointed out Glenn.
It's all about the songwriting and storytelling. Their riffs are simple compared to most modern bands, but they're really catchy, memorable and will make you very emotional.
Their use of lyrical and musical themes is also great. A great example would be their new album, specifically the songs Sarajevo and Versailles.
The only problem with this is that they're basically doing german oktoberfest drinking music with distorted guitars.
You should have said amon amarth 😂
Sabaton is incredible.
@@honigdachs. which is fucking epic
@@Rex-golf_player810 It's music for semi-demented old people here in Europe.
As a guitar player (and now ‘almost’ professional musician), one thing that helped me to up the songwriting skills was starting to write my music on piano or acoustic guitar and not electric guitar. Not only harmony is much more accessible on piano, but you’re away from your technical comfort zone (at least in my case) so you focus more on creating a nice melody and sweet hooks instead of being a session of jerking off my own ego with the guitar. Eventually I learned to do the same on the electric guitar, but It can be a good thing to get away from the guitar when you’re in too deep into the “rockstar shredder egomaniac” mentality.
When I started writing songs when I was 15, my songs were on average 6-7 minutes (97% of 15 year olds have nothing interest to say, let alone for 7 minutes, c’mon). The more I learned the more I started dropping the length to 4-5 minutes.
Now I usually keep my songs between 3 and 3:40. The only long “recent” song I have is about 5 min but only because it has a lot of lyrics.
So in a few words:
1. Write on Piano
2. Condense your ideas
3. Serve the song, not your ego. The music is for both you and the people, not just you.
Peace, guys!
I primarily write on bass (even though I'm the guitarist) because 1) I played bass first and 2) it allows me to focus on the root chord progression first. I may add minor or 7th chords once I start adding the guitar but with distortion the root is going to drive the song more than the slight inflections of the minor 3rd or the 7th.
Hey - heres one thing that my band does these days that's really working for us. Usually one of us does a rough version of the track with programmed drums. We post it on google drive, and then we'll all listen and will then each post some suggestions/additions/ edits etc over a few weeks. We then jam it out at practice and try to finalize the structure and vocal arrangements when we're all in the same room. Having different perspectives and ideas really helps with both cutting out the fluff but also trying cool new things that you wouldn't have come up with one your own. Not to say we dont disagree and sometimes argue but even when that happens it's always a better song at the end having gone through that. We're just a hobby band and I'm not trying to claim we are master song writers or anything but again the finished song is always better having gone through that process.
One thing I really dig about modern metal is that a lot of bands know when to use low screams/growls and when not too. For example with knocked loose Isaac’s lower vocals compliment Bryan’s higher screams very well!
second the knocked loose
You can do a lot even with screaming vocals and heavier subgenres of metal
Ever wonder how Amon Amarth got so big? It's because their songs are catchy. Even with "cookie monster vocals" they get a vocal melody across because the singer varies his inflection to match the guitar melody.
Variation is a big part of why some songs are memorable. Even Cannibal Corpse knows when to slow down before the really intense part comes up to build it up. Just think about what I just said for a second: most modern metal songs show less restraint than FUCKING CANNIBAL CORPSE.
Memorable choruses are a big thing too. Just listen to Black Metal by Venom. Who doesn't feel like screaming "LAY DOWN YOUR SOUL TO THE GODS ROCK AND ROLL!"?
Or the entirety of Exodus debut album "Bonded by Blood". All of those songs are earworms.
Children of Bodom, Venom, Cannibal Corpse, Exodus, Amon Amarth, Lamb of God, Municipal Waste, Hatebreed, Kreator, Destruction, Sepultura....
None of those bands come even close to clean vocals in their entire discography but they all have memorable vocal lines and lyrics that get people hyped at concerts. Think about that.
You have a point here with Amon Amarth! Two big name power metal bands covered their music (Sabaton & PowerWolf) and they still sounded GREAT in that style too!
>>Ever wonder how Amon Amarth got so big? It's because their songs are catchy. Even with "cookie monster vocals" they get a vocal melody across because the singer varies his inflection to match the guitar melody.
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Very true. And also - Cookie Monster or not, Johan Hegg has the clarity of a power metal singer - you can actually hear the words he is singing.
@@Tigermaster1986 Another great point. I'm a musical theatre actor. Diction and clarity are more important than singing ability there. Who cares if you sing beautifully if no one understands what your saying?
Who?
Absolutely spot on.
This isn't just "recording nerds" stuff this is fucking METAL SCHOOL. You have 101 level courses like this, and 500+ level courses that you charge for. You really are a brilliant guy and I love your work. I have TWO bells clicked: AvE and SpecterSoundStudios. Thanks for this, it is instantly a MUST-WATCH for every metalhead who's ever thought about making music. There are so many PRO bands who should have their heads pointed toward this then smacked, and even a few legends from time to time. This episode was directly from my mouth to God's ears. High five. Oh and #*8: LEARN TO THROW SONGS AWAY. Another way to get to writing a good song is WRITE MORE. Keep the ones audiences respond to, throw the ones they don't like away, even if they're your precious pet.
Dude, you could apply these lessons to any band in ANY genre, realistically. Really sound advice.
Learning to throw away your creations should be the number one rule. If it's not great, move on to the next one. You might have to throw out 10 songs before you hit that 11th good one. This basic idea is true for so many things in life.
@@violencefight9557 Yeah that's not my original idea, I stole that from an interview with Gene Simmons of KISS, they asked him why Kiss albums only have 8 or so songs in an age of 12 or more song albums, "do you guys not write as much as other bands?" "no, we write more, and we throw the bad songs we write away, and only release the good ones the audience likes, we don't need filler or to guess if the audience might like this song." [paraphrased] Boom. The guy was a marketer first, and a musician second.
@@snap-off5383 the other related advice I've heard is: you will never regret leaving a song out of your set or off an album but you can definitely regret leaving one on. If it's a great song, you still have it in the bag to use later.
"God I wanna ffffffffuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuull tank of gas"
Love these videos, I'm not even playing for a metal band and all of this information is still massively helpful
Me too. I grew up on metal, but I've primarily been playing punk rock for the last almost 30 years.
Right there with you. Glenn is wise beyond his metal. 😁
In regards to the length of songs, I would argue that if a long song is engaging, it can be better than a "radio format" style tune. As long as the longer songs still have peaks and valleys of musical exploration, it can work rather well. The song "The Poet and the Pendulum" off the Nightwish album "Dark Passion Play" is a 15 minute long epic but the way its laid out feels like songs within a song, so it keeps it from feeling stagnant/boring to listen to.
Fkn love Poet and the Pendulum and I’m not a Nightwish fan at all. Fantastic song.
I like some songs that are long, but if it's not my taste I want that song to be as short as possible.
Type o negative does this as well. Their first album is full of those
You're absolutely correct about singers finding their own personal voice. I was 30 years old before I realized that trying to sing someone else's songs in their particular voice was just hurtful to my vocal chords. I'd literally be voiceless by the end of the night. I am a bit ashamed to say that i was watching a few minutes of the second season of American idol and the judge's critique of a performance showed me the light. Everyone does have their own unique voice and I began to use my own with much better results than the last 10+ years before and I wasn't damaging my vocal chords in the process. 🤘
Thanks you so much Glenn.
You finally made the video we've been waiting for since your first contest.
Glenn you Rock.
i have been playing guitar for over 20 years, its the comfort zone for many of us, but most jams ive ever had repeat call backs for were because i was able to sing, or at least willing to try haha. this whole video so on point.
Metallica is a great example of using 1/2 riffs and basing the other riffs off of those two. Two really good ideas carrying the song and the other ideas are complementary to those riffs. Same thing goes for many other popular bands
They are also great at the other side of that 😂
@@TheNerdyGinger I was thinking about the older albums after I wrote that, Metallica also had some cases of many riffs crammed into one song *AJFA Couch Couch* But most of the "hits" have a core idea/riff
@@TheNerdyGinger you can get away with it if you have a countless amount of ‘hit’ songs as well.
Slipknot treats a lot of songs that way as well, but they come up with like 8 variations.
Kirk Hammett spoke once of a song on The Black Album that was only like two riffs and my nerd-ass sat here and riffed out each song in my head, I’m pretty sure it’s My Friend of Misery
Other examples of this would be Jim Johnstone’s classic WWF entrance themes - generally each theme has 2 sections that loop examples being Stone Cold Steve Austin, Razor Ramon and Degeneration. Absolute bangers
I’ve always liked the idea of using 1 riff and doing the classic “variations on a theme” to keep them interesting, pick your favourite riff you’ve written and write a song using only that riff, do some variations on it for your different sections and see what you can come up with. If you get stuck try using the same idea in different positions of the same key and only as a last resort, pick a new riff for a chorus or a bridge. It should make the song feel more coherent and connected. Or, if you’re boring and lack creativity use the Brian Eno deck of chards trick
I do this a TON. I usually jam out and come up with a chorus riff, track that, and kinda work backwards. Everything else being like a musical tributary to the sea that is the chorus. Meandering bends that take you on a trip but ultimately lead to that vast open space filled with sonic goodness.
Its a great way to keep you grounded and focused 100%. It also keeps you on that A,B,C...A,B,C... formula path verses the songs that go A,B,C,D,E,F and off into the distance haha.
Songs tend 2 sound better with around 3 main melodies ~ like Beatles hits R like 3 different songs rolled into 1. Keeps it interesting. Don't do the 'ran out of ideas & just need a break' thing tho. If it's 'slow & soft' it should have a definite melody 2!
@@dewdmcman4321 the variation on a theme thing is more for writing practice to be fair but you'd be amazed at what you can come up with when doing it, some stuff you can use, other stuff not so much. It's all about honing a craft and developing your songwriting skills
@@calebhohneke8482 it's great to get a system that works for you, I tend to start with a lyric and pound out a few ideas under it until it starts to form a solid section and then I'll have to work on whether I think it's better as a chorus or verse, whether I can come up with a narrative or it's more of a hook. Songwriting takes a lot trial and error I've found, it gets easier the more you do it but I don't think people realise how much shit they'll write before they get something worthwhile
I'm recording my first song and thsts what I'm doing is I'm just changing a riff up bit by bit. It feels nice when you write something and it sounds catchy to your ear.
I think it’s okay to write about your emotions. They’re more complex and fluid than simple feelings such as sad, angry, and happy. Sometimes they require musical inflection to represent how the artists feel.
Maybe write about your unique ones. The same aspersions cast at Country Music (dog died, wife left, love to drink, gotta work the dirt, i'm a strong tough country girl) could be put out about metal. I don't have to guess what the topic of ALL of the songs on the next Linkin Park album will be, same for Breaking Benjamin. Bands have pounded the grunge-induced cliches to putty just as bad as the hair band cliches before them. Its time for something new, not another band thinking they're the first to blend hip hop and distortion as if Fred Durst's whiny "whatcha gonna do now?" (that my ice cweam faw on the gwound gwandma?) didn't cringe-embarrass white people everywhere already. Songs don't do self esteem building for the performer they do story telling.
I stopped caring about being an amazing shred guitarist years ago and instead focused on becoming a composer and looking at the bigger picture. I'm not afraid to get weird, mix genres, and even look at something like pop music and ask what vague aspects I can incorporate into my own music to make it more appealing to a wider audience (such as the hook, of course).
Most people stop caring about shreds as they grow. I still enjoy lead guitars more than rhythm guitars, both playing and listening, but now I realised that solos must be melodic and serve the songs, not the other way around.
@@thegodfather5842 exactly! "Lead Guitar" does not mean "Shred Guitar" in my perspective. Solos can sing and leads can move harmonies. And since I will probably never be as good as Jeff Loomis in combining shred with meaningful playing, I can leave that to him anyway and move on with my songwriting 🤣
HAHA I would shred if I could! =D Takes 2 much practice! =P Wouldn't shred all the time but yes 'long shreddy things' R GR8 if it's not just moving the same fuking scale around but lots of different moods & 'shapes' =)
Lance, to add to your point, I think that a person has a better chance of being a notable and unique composer in their particular musical niche than they do of being a notable instrumentalist of the stature that some of our heroes have achieved.
"#1: Write shorter songs"
Me trying to write more Stoner Metal songs: ...
"Don't cram all your ideas into it"
Me with a single riff to repeat hypnotically for 10min: ...
Stoner doom is a vibe, really. There are many fans of this genre (myself definitely included) but definitely don't quit your job if you want to make money from it.
Considering that I break the first two rules religiously, I think my first approach would be to break up one long tune into three meant to be played in order or something. I know my last composition is a good candidate for that.
@@CHIMPOaGOGO Oh, no, I'm not dropping my job for it. Hahahaha I already work with something I love and I'll hardly starve with it. And I personally only listen to an album in order once unless it's something really special. So splitting a long song in 3 is bad imo. I actually love long songs and I don't know if you're writing Stoner or anything of the sort, but people who go for that are expecting long songs. 6min of Thrash Metal at 150bpm is hard to stand, but 13min of Stoner at 90bpm is a walk in the park. _A very slow walk in the park that drags forever, just as you want it to be_
Short and catchy songs about telling people where to go. I AM IN!!!
Honestly you got it spot on Glen. Thank you for your contributions to music.
The reason bands like Rush could get away with a 20 minute song is because 2112 as a song, is a completely badass prog and rock journey. And it had so many god damn dynamics to keep the listener interested!
I think long songs have to nail the atmosphere. Theres many great long "lotr" songs, its just hard to pull off
There's a lot to consider when writing songs like that. In order for a ten minute song to be good, it has to keep you interested in the song for ten minutes straight and that takes a lot of creativity. Also, if all of your songs are 10 minute epics, none of your 10 minute epics are special. Think of Iron Maiden's rime of the ancient mariner: none of the other songs in the album are that long, so it stands out as something special in the album.
The problem with a lot of 'long songs' is they R just taking the actual song & splitting it apart with boring 'tuning up' nonsense instead 2 only 'give a break' instead of adding themes 2 it or treating the soft bits with the same attention & melody as the 'loud' bits.
I definitely feel that most long songs are either for the band or their fans, not the casual listener. The shorter songs, the singles etc are what draw people in to listen, especially in this age
I say this as someone who adores long songs, Iron Maiden are one of my favourite bands and they are masters of taking you on a journey
i love your attitude and delivery brother! you make constructive criticism really entertaining. and your excellent advice here applies to songwriting in all genres
I honestly think that some of the greatest songs ever created are 6-10 minute songs. It's almost like a build up into a masterpiece. Nightwish, Opeth, and Metallica come to mind...
Even Iron Maiden have some of their best songs running long, like Alexander the Great that is almost 9 min and is an absolute masterpiece.
Exactly
Huge Nightwish fan here. You are right, but Glenn's point still holds up here. Those long masterpieces aren't created by cramming multiple ideas behind one another. They are usually based on one core idea and these genius songwriters know how to develop a lot out of this one idea.
You can only be entertaining for 7 min, if you know how to be entertaining for 3 min. If your first 3 min are boring by themselves, you won't make them better by adding other stuff behind them.
True, And… Justice For All is almost 10 minutes and I love every second of it. The main focus on songwriting is coherent ideas, it doesn’t matter how long it is, it’s about the flow of ideas.
green grass and high tides.
"Fire" and "desire" is a classic cliche, indeed. Another one I hate: Opening the lyrics with "Welcome to"
Cooper nor Rose? The only two "welcome to"s I can think of are awesome.
Also, if a line ends with 'heaven', you can bet your life the next line will end with 'hell'
@@devilsslave1970 or seven.
@@snap-off5383 Mike Muir... Welcome to, the church of Suicidal
@@petepeterson5639 Never heard of it. Just "Welcome to my Nightmare" and "Welcome to the Jungle" come to mind.
I have always enjoyed this channel, Glenn. But, I am more on the ‘punk rock’ side of life than metal. I believe there has always been a ‘venn diagram’ between the two - and hearing you suggest ideas and inspirations from bands like The Sex Pistols and The Ramones just reinforces - I am in the right place to make better music. Keep it up, my dude! Love and respect from Seattle!
Sweet!
These are awesome tips. I shall keep them in mind when I’m writing music with the band.
Man this trips me out so much..literally been struggling writing new songs for my band and I open youtube and BOOM....thanks Glenn 🤘🖤
Long songs that worked for me: Deep Purple - Lazy (7:20), Heart - Mistral Wind (6:45), Todd Rundgren - The Ikon (30:26), Led Zep - Kashmir (8:33) and Stairway (8:01), Jon and Vangelis - Friends of Mr. Cairo (12:10), Pink Floyd - Us and Them (7:50) and High Hopes (8:33), Gowan - Criminal Mind (7:20), Don Henley - Sunset Grill (6:20), etc.
Not one of those would likely sell today.
Each one had strong hooks and memorable moments and a LOT of space.
Each moved in clearly defined sections and kept you waiting and anticipating for the arrival or return of a section.
Always learn from the past. Don't repeat it, but learn from it.
What about " I Wanna Be Adored" from the Stones Roses
I've started to write my long songs in parts, so that one can listen them together or separately according to taste. Point being that you wouldn't miss anything by listening just songs here and there but the theme gets build up if you digest them in order!
Excellent points all. As for the song length, I've always tried to write songs, that end a bit "too soon". This can leave the listener wanting to hear the song again, as opposed to wanting the song to end already.
This is one of the best advice videos you’ve put out man. Music in general is missing a LOT of this stuff and if everyone would follow this advice we’d probably, no, we WOULD have memorable songs again
I wonder if metal bands stopped trying to write "metal" and started trying to just write *music* if that would improve things. Of course that assumes they can even imagine a melody or a riff that doesn't consist entirely of chuggy downpicked palm mutes on the low F string that's been downtuned by two octaves. But I think a catchy pop song with palm muted guitars would probably still yield a better metal song than trying to out-BRÜTAL Brütallishuggah.
You don't have to think or imagine it would. Just listen to Ghost. They prove that exact point.
That's what I do. I dont really write metal, I write music of all genres on guitar. I dont go for s specific style u just hear notes in my head and go from there. Leaves much more room for creativity.
Also learning world ethnic music helps a great deal in concieving ideas for rhytm on drums and guitar.
I absolutely love this video! I agree with your a lot of your points here with the vocals and song writing in particular my band has been working on a song for a little over 7 months now but it’s gone through a couple of renditions. 1: it was too long, 2: way too many riffs when we could simplify it, 3: we wanted to sing about something that matters going on currently. We’re just about finished tracking everything at home and we’re very proud of it
Excellent!! A great song is most often written, re-written, then re-written again once a producer gets involved. Good on you guys for being open to the whole process! Can you post a link so we can hear it? Hell, I'd even love to hear the original to see the changes that were made. My band did the same for a song off our first recordings. We shortened and simplified it, and kept it high energy as opposed to the two slow downs that were there originally. Gotta be open to change! Cheers
@@66fitton thank you so much! And we haven’t put it on anything just yet just working on the last couple bumps out it’s not professional by all means but it’s the best we can do at home! The only thing that needs to be re recorded is the solo on the last part of the song, my guitarist didn’t like the sound so we’re re doing it next section. However once it does come out i will post a link!
Great content, as always, insightful and entertaining 🤘😎
Glenn seems to have the classic misunderstanding of "more popular = better"
Seems true
Oh yeah, because you’re right, popularity has nothing to do with it! If a bunch of people like something it has to be bad! And if nobody likes a band they have to be good, right? Give me a break.
@@washywashie i mean, pretty much...
For example creative music uses signature and tempo changes, wich tend to be very hard to "dance to". Thats why in an orchestra people are sitting down as opposed to a disco where they play generic shitty 4-on-the-floor beats all day.
popular music tends to be simple and catchy, or in other words, dumb
Glenn you are right. We need more energetic catchy songs to bang our heads to🤘
The lyrics sometimes dont even have to make sense just give the feeling of being a badass.😎
Cheers from Slovakia
Shit, i rhyme with the same exact words lol Or sometimes I don't rhyme the pair at all. If it works... I roll with it :)
Great pointers! Coming from a 'riff salad' kind of band (Hellacaust) I appreciate your take on the topic. The new project I've been working on is definitely taking a less is more approach to song writing.
Glenn, I’m not a metal guy, but your points here are right on and applicable across other genres too. Good video.
The shorter songs thing is something I've been working on over the years. Some of my favorite songs from other bands tend to be around the 9-12 minute mark, and thats definitely where I picked up the habit. But as I've progressed in song writing, I find myself writing more concise ideas that tell the same story. Usually 5 minutes or under to allow it to breathe at least a little. 😅
Try Muse: Absolution.
That album is a great example of how much can be done in a 4 minute span. I apply that album to short and sweet recordings :)
I think that long songs are great, but need to be balanced with short songs. A lot of iron maidens catalogue is over 5 minutes, but they were established already, and they also have a lot of songs from 3-4 minutes in length. Long songs are for yourself or your fans, not the casual listener.
Ace of Spades by Motorhead is under 3 minutes and one of the more famous songs because of it.
@@orlock20 Motörhead doesn't play the kind of music that suits longer runtimes.
Every time Glenn talks about 'cookie monster' vocals he seems 5-10 years in the past. Vocals are incredibly varied now, gutturals, tunnel throat, and bunch of different resonance placement for lows which sound pretty different... And they do sound different between each singer. It's not old monotone Cannibal Corpse anymore.
All variations on a singular theme of "Im real spooky". Needs to go.
I get his Cookie Monster issue because the Cookie Monster vocals making on the metal channels are the cliche Cookie Monster vocals.
You are absolutely correct! I've written since I was 10 and I'm 60 so I know what the audience wants, and probably more importantly what the producer wants because the audience only hears what's produced. I've been in a big discussion about this very week about exactly what you just said. You are awesome Glenn!
YO GLENNNN! While i've never been much of a metal head, your videos (especially this one) hit the nail right on the head when it comes to whats important in music itself. I've been writing songs almost as long as i've been playing (30 years). I can say from experience that its most important to run with melodies that make people's hearts dance, heads bang and to keep it simple. Write about pretty much whatever, and give it an interesting angle that paints a relatable picture in a metaphoric format that not only leaves interpretation open ended, but forces the listener to THINK. I hate that most artists lyrical content is overly obvious in an obnoxious way, that makes it stale... Staler than 5 year old bread. and way too many of them keep their focus on their personal feelings in that can be summed up in simple terms. " This is my band, and I Feel Ways About Things" While not every song that an artist writes is going to be solid gold, but you can tell when someone is trying and someone is simply wanking off.
"Sonic Wankery"? I'm pretty sure I did sound for those guys back in the 90s. ;-)
Greetings from Singapore. Although I am not a metal musician or producer, I have learnt a lot from your engineering and producing advice. I have recently completed an album of Music for Children, and I would like to send you a copy of the project as way of thanking you for being an inspiration for my music producing journey. Is there a PO Box that I can send to? Cheers.
f*ck yeah glenn! i agree. i made my comment on your Facebook page for this video but i figure i give you props here too. thanks man for this video! you are so right! mix reviews is still fun to watch and join in, but i totally agree sometimes it gets painful songwriting wise etc.
Glen, I enjoy your candor in the morning. Cheers....
I will never again write a song with time limits and other requirements. But then I write music for me and couldn't care less if anyone listens to it.
Same here; it's just a creative hobby for me. If I do put my stuff on Bandcamp, it'll be for free or 'name your price.'
Same dude. I'd rather it be art than follow all of these points to a tee. I think at that point it becomes more of a product.
Haha we all know, that's not true. If I could count how many times I've heard that. 😂😂😂
@@Synster73 I've written 10 completed songs in the past 2 years, my original comment still holds up.
Hi Glenn! In the beginning I heard You screaming and fucked everything and I thought "What´s this?" But I found You very entertaining and hillarius funny! I laugh a lot and You make my days worth much more. You are a very good teacher and You make a very good job too inspire other musicians too make great songs that aint copies of everything else. It is a big quest and I think You have the ability too make this happen. Thank´s for all tips for recording that have made my recording more easy and enjoyable. I am impressed by Your enthusiasm to deliver tips too all how too make a song, find good gear, that expensive is not allways the best,,and so on. Allways looking forward to see Your videos. Metalgreetings from Sweden
Wow, very cool take!!!🤘🏼🤘🏼🤘🏼
Solid video! Thanks!
My worst is "the hands of time". NEVER use that lyric EVER.
It can work. Keyword here is CAN, not WILL.
sands?
It's alright, because from them you recieve coconuts in which to put the lime!
Hows that for an eloquent rhyme?
The best sharpie marker is the silver kind to flourish and brandish and lay down some lines, it's dainty and small fits well in the fist, unlike my aubergine, that's thick as your wrists! 🍆
@@snap-off5383 that too. Clocks have hands. And hourglasses have sands lol.
"Break the chains and set me free" and "Spread my wings and fly away" make me cringe everytime I hear them
Looks like "how to write an 80s commercial dad rock song" but ok
those songs are often good, actually
Great video Glenn! i feel like this is another necessary pinned video for newbs to your channel.
1: I usually wrote 2-4 minute songs. and a bunch under 1 minute.
2: got over riff salad phase real quick when i would get bored listening to my own songs.now i write a verse riff, a chorus riff, and a bridge/intro/outro riff. and sometimes i'll change up the verse riff for the second verse.
3: never did this because i never was talented enough to lead guitar beyond melody lines
4: GUILTY! I often write very busy drums which were like it's own instrument vs just a beat and keeping time. Writing in different genres has solved this since, but i still get stuck in it. honestly it makes me want to write metal less and do other genres that are less heavy drum focused.
5: I'm addicted to harmonies so yeah, this is necessary! especially in the chorus! at the very least have a harmony that runes with the lead line a 3rd up/down from it.
6: I had so many cliches in my lyrics, which is why I've never been happy with most of them. My newer songs? Not so much. deeper, more comments on society, and more personal emotional journeys. oh and one glenn missed, mentioning "the weight of the world on my shoulders" haha
7: I've had a few people regularly ask me when I'm releasing something on Spotify because the hook is everything (still need parts recorded)! I've always written better hooks than verses.
So yeah I got some work to do. appreciate the list/rules. Good stuff here. I would love to also have a collab video with you and Trey doing how good songs make good productions. For example: talk about arrangements, tempo, and why having guitars, bass, and vocals all on top of each other in a mess of death metal doesn't make things any easier.
FOR ODIN'S SAKE. METAL DOESN'T CRY. Thank you Glenn.
I think it's a blessing that I'm not proficient enough to play lead, technical stuff on my instrument. It puts me in place not to do any guitar wankery or those sorts.
But my songs probably still suck according to Glenn, though
Can we hear your stuff
in the same situation, but i guess 2 minute punk snacks are sorely missing from the mix reviews if that was the very first point of the video
"you just don't get that destinction with screams and growls".
completely disagree. GOOD screamers are unique. No one will mix up Corpsegrinder and Frank Mullen, or Phil Bozeman and Mitch Lucker.
It's a matter of execution.
And let's not forget how many singer back in traditional metal tried to copy Dio or Halford.
The thing with lyrics feels very antiquated to me...I'd rather have a guy sing about his feelings ( cause to me, that's what art is about), rather than hearing a silly song about a myth, a poem or something else completely unpersonal. I Love old school and new school, but I think, it takes a lot more gut to sing about yourself than absout some fantasy bullshit no one could ever take serious.
definitely agree overall, only thing I have a different opinion on ii it seems like a lot of low-mid tier vocalists are often hard to distinguish unless you're familiar with their sound, more than just the first listen
@@suddenswarm5944 yes, but I think, this applies to clean singers as well
I probably would. Here are the three singing styles that bug me:
1. Vocal runs in the form of riff salad.
2. Cookie Monster or other cartoonish vocals.
3. Poor dictation.
I like cookie monster if it fits the song. Better than the 1000st Dio-wannabe
Yes had the harmonizing thing down to a t and it sounded amazing.
Do more of that
Well said Glennard! I love your candor man!
Old Glen Yells At Cloud.
Like, if you just want to listen to pop music that's fine, no one will judge you, but Metal is supposed to be about pushing boundaries, not colouring within them.
Exactly. Then why are so many bands not pushing any boundaries?
@@SpectreSoundStudios maybe because UA-camrs keep telling them to play it safe? :D
It also might be that your audience skews younger and less experienced.
Great perspective. What is SMG's age demographic? Are us old timers the bulk of the audience?
I'm not sure that it is so wrong to make long songs. Still, ones who know how to make quality short songs will have more experience and musical sense of what people could expect of a longer song, so... I guess everyone should learn first how to write and structure a 3 minutes long song before trying such a chore
If you have enough ideas to keep it interesting, go for it.
One of the most disappointing records I own is of a band that had great songs IF they had ended them half way through. A lot of times it was like they just played the song twice. Same music, same lyrics, same solos.
What Glenn is leaving out is the real reason most songs come in at 3 and a half minutes is because the label has to pay royalties per minute. That's the real reason singles tend to never make it to the 4 minute mark. It doesn't have anything to do with attention span. It's money. A few longer songs (most were never released as singles) that became legendary became that way because radio DJs needed a few songs on deck that are long enough to allow them to use the bathroom. Today's technology, a DJ can load their entire show ahead of time and just leave, so now there are rarely long songs played on radio.
This is excellent. So many need to hear this advice.
This is hillarious, love the delivery of your message. Btw I'm an amateur solo musician/producer writing metal, rock and other genres, and perhaps thanks to my lack of technical skill, I believe my songwriting is able to shine through. I'm glad you mentioned the lyric cliches, definitely something to keep in mind. It seems I don't have enough inspiration to write just about anything interesting, I guess my life is too boring. It'll come though. I would love to show my shit on the livestream, how do I make a submission? Last I checked there was a payment required, in which case I won't be able to make it at this time.
I think harsh vocalists are like guitar players: there's a lot of same sounding wankery and then there are the good, memorable ones. I mean, Corpsegrinder, Johan Hegg, Alexi, Jari Maenpaa or Dani Filth are pretty recognizable.
The thing I appreciate about Johan Hegg especially (and *especially* on their last 4-5 albums now) is I can actually understand the lyrics through the growling. A lot of death growly guys use the technique as a way to mask a lack of decent lyrics, whereas I always felt like it enhances Amon Amarth's music. I can't say that of 98% of death metal bands out there.
Tottaly valid point, the big problem with a lot of new bands is that the vocalist sound too generic that you just forget about the whole band in seconds after the song ends.
who?
mitch lucker, randy blythe absolutely
@@zackakai5173 this is one of the main reason I spend a lot of efforts articulating while growling. My growls are not that great, but at least you can figure out the lyrics. Hell, if you spend a lot of time to write good lyrics, what good is it if no one can understand them without reading the booklet ?
A non-metal singer said to me once 30 years ago: "If you think it is good but it sounds like shit, well, it IS shit. But if you think it is shit but it sounds good, then it is good". I never forget this when I write songs.
If someone thinks it sounds like shit and liked it... that is a problem. That quote is bad
Thanks, Glenn!
So happy I found this channel. While I play mostly as a hobby now, it’s funny to hear about all the mistakes we made when I was playing in a serious band 30 years ago.
I agree with most of what you said, but I think that with the whole "keep it to 4 mins" comment leads to more formulaic music. That's not to say that you can't write a great and original short song, but personally I'm the most tired of super generic verse/chorus/verse/chorus/bridge/chorus songs. I don't care if your song is 2 mins or 20, if it's good and original, I'll listen.
Yes but youre only allowed to do what every popular 80s/90s band did. They define what "good songwriting" is
I agree. A short song can be different and interesting but his points only lead to formulaic types of songs. A song can have catchy parts and still be 10 mins long.
I respectfully disagree with the hate on long songs. Don't get me wrong - I DO agree that it is extremely difficult to succesfully pull off a 20 minute long epic musical journey, and that a lot of people who do make this kind of music don't yet have the creativity and songwriting skills to make it interesting enough to not make you fall asleep. But telling people not to make them because hit songs are shorter and that many listeners don't have the attention span for it is only an argument if the artist is trying to break through commercially. Not all are - some genuinely just want to write and play what they like, and that should not be discouraged. Fans that DO have attention spans for long songs are usually also people who appreciate music on something deeper than a surface level, and it is perfectly legitimate to want to write music for this kind of crowd only.
Wanting 3,5 minute long songs also accepts the premise that having a very short attention span is normal, which is not necessarily the case to the extent that we see today in the modern world. More and more scholars agree that ie. social media is hurting our attention spans collectively by overflowing our reward centres in the brain when we scroll through our feeds. I guess we can all agree both that this is a huge problem, and that it makes it very hard for a long song to become mainstream in any way. But changing the way you create your art to cater to a problem like this can HURT the creativity that is missing from modern metal and further exacerbate the short attention span problem by making it "the new normal". A song with a specific length also tends to give way to the the same true-and-tried musical forms and song structures, because there is only so much things you can put into 3,5 minutes without making it overly complicated and scattered.
It is better to encourage people to write however long songs they want, but focus on making sure that it tells a cohesive musical story or awakens the appropriate emotions instead of just slapping in 20 different riffs because they can. Short attention spans is something that has to be fought and challenged, and not blindly accepted imo.
Also, fuck you Glenn!
I think the problem is that lots of people can't write a "good" 3-4 minute song. So if you can't write a good 3-4 minute song, what happens when you extend that length out to 8 minutes +? It's usually just an added 4 to 5 minutes of not great songwriting haha.
I listen to lots of prog bands that write long songs and they usually have that formula of what would be in a 3-4 min song incorporated into their longer song. That's what makes those songs memorable imo. There is still plenty of structure to them despite them being longer. Lots of people who write longer songs tend to take it as free roam to wank off and throw together whatever they come up with. For those people specifically, I encourage them to learn how to write a solid 4 minute song that's memorable and catchy and then apply those same techniques to longer songs. It will give you the ability to expand on the song while still keeping listeners engaged.
At the end of the day, we should write music that hold tight to us as musicians....but if you want people to listen, telling them to get over their short attention span isn't going to do anything. They will check your stuff out, say meh, and probably not come back. This is a mindset that has always existed with music and it's not going to change unless the structure of all music was to change (That isn't going to happen). Lots of people need something to keep them engaged/feeling like they are part of the music. Always been that way.
My 2 cents is that it seems like long songs are for the artist or existing fans- not the casual listener who hasn't discovered you yet. If a band has an album thats all 6 minutes+ then first of all how can the listener listen to the whole picture without already investing somewhat, secondly 6 minutes seems to be more than can be absorbed on 1 listen, so again needs the listener to already want to listen. having a mixture is key, if every song is the same length it becomes predictable, boring etc, a record that has 6 10 minutes songs vs 12 3 minute songs are gunna be just as boring, but the short songs are more likely to be discovered and understood on first listen
3 min songs aren't indicative of a society with a faltering attention span. Some of The Beatles' most popular songs are UNDER 3 min, written decades ago before the internet and cable television. People's inborn capacity for attention and intelligence doesn't change in 50 years either, that's not how evolution works. Our short term memory has been tuned through evolution to be specifically short over hundreds and thousands of years, and that will not change anytime soon. So no, longer art doesn't mean better creativity or intelligence.
Good luck, you're going to need it...
It is not better to encourage people to write songs as long as they want if the whole idea is to get people to listen to your music. Which I'm assuming is the majority of writers out there. If that's not the case and you strictly write songs for yourself to hear, then by all means, write till forever. Suggesting we collectively fight and challenge other peoples short attention spans by creating long songs is misplaced advice to me. I'm looking to enhance someone's day, not challenge them. I have no problem with epic pieces of music, but what Glenn describes here is age old. The long songs are so far outnumbered by the short format when you look at charts, that it stands as good advice for those who DO want lots of people to listen to their music to write in the most popular format. Not to worry though, there's plenty of people still writing epics! Just listen to the mix reviews lol. Cheers
I frickin’ love this Fricker.
Excellent advice as always 🤘🌪🤘
My band has found a great recording formula. I mix everything into Reaper. After creating a solid demo I send all the dry Stems labeled to our studio where they quantize the tracks, re-amp if necessary and master it properly. It's much more affordable than recording and engineering and the final product is perfect to our ears.
Well thats the sad part… Nowadays people are not allowed to make any other music than “songs”. I hate it when there is very nice composition and people will say ”what bs song is this?”… Then I have to say ”Well… Duh! It’s not a song even beginning with…. So yeah… Probably it is bad song!”.
So I will keep doing my 20min long rock compositions because i can use so wide range of dynamics and emotions. Delivering a story and experience to listener by actual music is so much more stronger feeling than story pushed to your ear literally by lyrics that there is no space for imagination. I don’t give a f*** about TicToc listeners.
We'll call this the "snowflake" reaction.
I don't necessarily want to create metal songs but I loved these tips!! Thank you Glenn.
Really helpful video. Would be also nice if there will be some kind of follow-up video with tips specific to writing better instrumentals.
Glenn makes a video telling us that his preferences in music is what we should all be doing - and then tells us to be original at the same time. I happen to agree that a lot of these suggestions can make good music, but I also like a lot of things that he rails against. But taste is taste - what you like I might not, and vice-versa.
This is legit a "how to sound like every band from the 80s" video. He basically doesnt seem to like anything progressive and modern sounding
This.
@@charizardmaster13 He’s talking about MOST modern metal bands, not all. Most modern metal bands make bland, shite songs that haven’t an ounce of creativity.
@@samwilson2046 so did most metal bands from the 80s but those were the ones weve all forgotten about
I remember in one video he was talking about doing something new and different from the “tried and tested method” then at 14:38 he says …
Learn from pop music - take your best riff, and think of that as the hook
"Learn from Pop music" is the worst advice ive ever heard
@@dinonuggies2276 So, no hooks then. That's fine. do your own thing. I hope it's fulfilling.
@@eightfootmanchild it is, its called "metal"
@@dinonuggies2276 So if it has any hooks, it's not "metal" to you. Cool. I enjoy grindcore from time to time, too.
@@eightfootmanchild you can have hooks and not write pop songs. Pop songs always follow a formula which is something people tend to avoid when being slightly Original.
Great advice
Thank you.
Hopefully everyone takes your advice now
Well said Glenn. I have learnt these lessons over time ✌️😎🇦🇺
Glenn, just letting you know that you'll be receiving a bill from my doctor because you've just caused me severe neck pain due to all the violent nodding in agreement that I've just done during this video. Also, I used the word "brain" in a song not that long ago and worked in "train" as a rhyme (ended up as a nice forward momentum line in context as well, as it turned out) simply because I refused to even consider using "insane". Don't get me started on lyric cliches.
I love your content and your knowledge that you have given us, but the first point you said in this video I totally disagree, that you do not have the patience to listen to a 10-minute song does not mean at all that it is bad, there are songs that you obviously don't know that they last even longer than that and are totally masterpieces worthy of recognition, absolutely every metal song doesn't need to be made to become popular as you want, and i'm not speaking for myself since it doesn't matter if i make one 14 minute song or a 4 minute song cause I'm a terrible songwriter and they'll be bad either way lol
While you are right, I think Glenn's point still holds up. You can't be intriguing for 7 min, if you aren't able to maintain tension for 3 min. And if the first 3 min are boring as hell, you can't make these 3 min better by adding another 4 minutes after that, even if they are super exciting. So the way to go, as an aspiring songwriter, is to shorten up your songs.
I agree with everything in this video with the exception of the song length. I think some songs just need that extra bit if time to fully flesh out an idea whether it's musically or lyrically. Of course if you're going to write a longer song than there has to be some thought put into the arrangement so you don't end up with a 15 minute riff soup. But in general I don't mind songs being 10+ minutes if there's an actual purpose for it.
I really liked the part of the video with your friend talking about writing songs but what I picked most of all was that he talked about lead-ins and one song that I know that it's devoid of these and does exactly what he said you shouldn't do and that is, "Black Betty"! They change tempo, riffs and at times it sounds like a totally different song! Yeah, I know it's a 60's classic hit and that was an era that was all about changing music but sometimes I find that song hard to listen to because of that.
This is one of those videos where I just disagree with a bunch of points. There are also some contradictions here as well. I agree, a lot of modern metal is fairly boring, but picking a good riff and a good melody won't solve the issues. I've heard plenty of new songs that have a banging riff and a good chorus, but the song is still boring and doesn't warrant more than a couple listens. The idea that all songs need to be a certain length or follow a certain structure is how we end up with boring music. Just look at modern metalcore, they have the standard pop structures with a breakdown where the bridhe should be, and I couldn't be any less interested. You said that a song is only as good as it's weakest part (I'm paraphrasing), and these songs are very weak in most other departments. Too repetitive, too predictable, killing their own vibe, etc.
Glenn, as well as many people in this community, have very strong, negative feelings towards screaming. Glenn might not like screaming or the music it's commonly used in, or maybe he doesn't fully understand their purpose. I get it, we have our likes and dislikes. I think Breaking The Law has a weak riff and a boring chorus, even though Glenn loves it. I love breakdowns and riffs and blast beats and screaming. Heavy Metal got less interesting as I got older. Different strokes for different folks. Sometimes a riff salad is way more interesting to listen to. Like Protest the Hero is probably my favourite band, and they could be considered riff salad, even though their songs are incredible and have very meaningful, thought provoking lyrics. Or Born of Osiris' first album The New Reign. At 15 years of age, it's still one of the best 20 minutes of metalcore I've ever heard.
Everyone has to start somewhere. The riff salad songs I was writing at 18 are not nearly as good as the riff salads I'm writing at 28. We don't know the history of most songwriters. But trying to tell people to think inside the box is probably the last thing you actually want. Listen to different styles of music, write different styles of music, experiment with your music. That's how you find your sound. If your goal is to appeal to the masses, then write a standard 3 minute pop structure with 1 or 2 good riffs. It's not the only way to write music though.
Pretty much how I felt about some of the points. Different strokes for different folks! But I get it if bands want to appeal to the masses n shit. But to each their own I always say.
This! Volition by PTH is one of my favorite albums. Is it too shred prog for the masses? Absolutely. But if they’d sold out and wrote more accessible songs we’d just have another generic metalcore record.
@@Pervatory They absolutely could do more accessible music, but what they've done for the past 20 years is something special. Defintely not for everyone but man, they get me every time. It's very sophisticated, you really have to listen many times and use your brain to wrap your head around it. But even if you just listen to the vocals, Rody is singing beautiful melodies.
Here's my song; can't believe it's not a hit:
The fire of devastation
Is where she grew her brain
And flew the flag of home
Her insane desire
Where her nation sleeps
Her ancestors are from there
This song is written in 9/7 . The infinitely dotted 32nd note gets the beat. The chorus features 8 string sweeps on guitar and six string sweeps on bass while the drums play 64th note septuplets.
So, what did I do wrong. How come I don't have a hit?
Thank you this really helped 🤘
This video is full of hooks! Great one