So, what is all this hot air about Hydrogen? | Andrew Clennett | TEDxNewPlymouth
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- Опубліковано 17 лип 2024
- Andrew Clennett is passionate about the potential of a new energy source, one that could fuel our lives cleanly and sustainably. After many years travelling the world developing energy projects in such places as Brazil, West Africa, North America, Australia and Europe, Andrew moved with his family to New Zealand in 2012 to take on the role of General Manager of Todd Energy’s operations.
Throughout his career Andrew has had a passion for all things energy. He is driven by its potential to unlock societal growth in both developed and developing countries, together with the need to balance this with the impact of the current energy mix on our planet.
In 2017 he chose to use his skills to accelerate the transition to a new energy paradigm and became a founder and CEO of Hiringa Energy, a company developing hydrogen generation and supply infrastructure and zero emission solutions. This talk was given at a TEDx event using the TED conference format but independently organized by a local community. Learn more at www.ted.com/tedx
This is the future I’ve dedicated my life to advancing h2 economy so get ready sceptics!
Disappointed yet?
A lot has happened since 2018. Exciting to see the change and its acceleration!
You mean Toyota pretty much giving up on hydrogen cars?
@@rogerphelps9939 Hello Roger, thank you for commenting. Comparing the efficiency of EV and fuel cell cars, mobility is not an economically viable use case for passenger vehicles. Mobility is a negligible fraction of hydrogen demand. A large range of products we use in our daily lives requires hydrogen for its production. Form the food on our plates, to materials such as metals, glas, and plastics. 95 % of hydrogen is currently produced using fossil fuels, e.g. methane in steam methane reforming. Luckily, there are new technologies that enable green hydrogen without the green premium. Kind regards, Katharina
Fantastic Andrew!
This was a sales pitch, not an analysis of hydrogen as an energy carrier. Totally omitted the requirements for storing hydrogen in a vehicle, the energy required to process whatever hydrogen feedstock is chosen compared to the net energy harvested when the hydrogen is reacted.
That's my disappointment in Tedtalks. So many are just a pitch to raise awareness of a persons book or project interest.
Which wouldn't be so bad if it was pure science, but so much of it is opinion, and doesn't cover the whole picture.
Some are outright dismissive of any other perspective.
Commercial production of such usable Hydrogen, is being done by PLUG, BLDP, FCEL, ITM Power/Linde, etc. But the most promising is HYSR, out of University Santa Barbara / University of Iowa, who is trying to market clean green Hydrogen from water and Sunlight. Toyota Mirai and Honda Clarity etc are reality. Seems optimistic. Thanks.
Toyota and Honda can't even give their hydrogen cars away.
At 4:14 the Anode should be Negative, unless you're doing electrolysis but, that's a simplified animation of a fuel-cell.
Omg if we can start to control how molecules interact with other we will be able to make the the world work around us. Hydrogen is only one element and the first that is produced. Imagine if we could work with elements that have even more power inside them.
Seeing this video today 22/10/2020 when he spoke about Nikola made me laugh 😂
It was going great till then
No H2 is not an energy SOURCE it is an energy CARRIER.
And a source of greenhouse gas.
love this !
Isn’t that what he said at the beginning?
The quick fill is not an argument for normal people whose cars are parked 12 hrs per day. Plenty of time to charge
Not if you are living in an apartment high-rise, like the majority of people on this planet
This is a PSA: Owning a hydrogen car has been the worst car ownership experience in my life: stations are down OFTEN, when I call to customer service and they tell me they work and have enough hydrogen in them I often go there and there's no hydrogen or it doesn't work. And I live in northern CA where we have the most hydrogen stations. PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD UNTIL THEY RECTIFY THIS HORRIFIC FUELING EXPERIENCE DO NOT, DO NOT BUY a hydrogen car. Just get ANYTHING else
We also forget how much energy it takes to extract fossil fuels from the earth. Then we must consider the cost of pollution, the health cost and wars.
Very interesting.
The one thing I heard hydrogen is not a fuel, but stores fuel. Other than that I received a lot of talks or sales pitch. Hope someone can be motivated to make something of it.
It makes no sense and it will never happen.
Tom Sanders your thinking of water as a carrier(water is not a fuel) but hydrogen is the last word for fuel or energy . It just takes the same energy to extract hydrogen from water as you get as a result in that hydrogen fuel. But hydrogen is a fuel!
"Hydrogen is the most abundant element in the universe. It's in the water. Something about hydrogen that we often forget. As a molecular form it is an energy carrier like a battery, it's own battery. So, ah, pardon me if this is the complicated bit... it's down to the fundamental science. What hydrogen can let you do is capture that excess energy. (repeat x2) There are countries that can't put up wind turbines or solar panels or hydro. New Zealand could bring hydrogen to the world the way Saudi Arabia does oil. So the obvious question is - if this is so wonderful - if it has been around since the Big Bang, why hasn't it been used already. It's like touch screens. So think of it like that. It started with the space race - it started with the need to have energy and recycle energy, use the hydrogen that they had in the rockets and use it to make electricity. Use the solar energy from the panels and store it. Germany is investing billions. Japan is moving to hydrogen society. Korea is changing 26,000 CNG buses to H2 in the next year. It's in the WallMarts and Amazons. Then the car companies are starting to push out exciting production vehicles such as the Nexo, zero emission and you can carry the gear in the back of your car. Hydrogen is very light so you don't have to carry batteries. We can put these fuel cells in these vehicles. This Nicola truck is exciting, it will go higher average speed, and is safer and lighter, so there can be fewer trucks."
Susan Krumdieck unfortunately the term energy carrier is inaccurate and misleading regarding H2O. When extracting H2 from H2O it takes the same amount of energy to break the chemical bond as you get in potential energy to be used or stored. And then the energy density in h2 gas is very low unless it is compressed. Compressing it into a liquid requires below 0 cooling and 5000 psi compression. This then reduces the net gain from equal to a deficit. Now of course if the energy came from a alternative energy scource IE wind ,solar ,hydro electric etc. this is very viable none the less.
Just wanted to point out this distinction for other viewers. Water is like an empty storage container not a full storage container.
B5429671 XJ while a hydrogen scheme seams cumbersome and it is . It is a viable system that when in place would solve huge problems in our energy system.
Saying it makes no sense is understating the potential for these systems. There are and have been viable hydrogen systems working in rural areas where power lines or gas lines are cost prohibitive. I personally researched these systems in the early 1970’s. They work, they are cost effective and incredibly liberating for off grid applications proven to this day as superior to any other utility currently being imployed.
Recent advancement in cracking hydrogen as well as chemical catalyst for non compression liquification are going to revolutionize this industry.
Large businesses already buying ceramic fuel cells that run on natural gas (US NG stockpiles are huge) eliminating electricity transmission dependence .
Co2 is cracked and separated from NG leaving h2 / O2 delivered to the ceramic fuel cell. CO2 ican be sequestered at the site. These investments have been recovered in 1 year despite the early non scale manufacturing costs.
Hydrogen can be distributed in a gas line just like NG or mixed!
Check out how Proton Technologies is using existing hydrocarbon reserves to create clean hydrogen at the fraction of the current cost
Hydrogen is certainly light but the containment required to hold a reasonable amount of it at the necessary very high pressures is nott.
Well said
nanoparticle panels that only need the sun to produce hydrogen will be a big game changer, the Schmid group is working on them right now
hmmm.
You are suggesting to use available clean electricity that could "provide electricity and charge electric vehicles" to produce highly explosive hydrogen that will then require more energy to compress and store into very strong tanks. so it can later be used to "provide electricity and power vehicles". sounds like a battery - but a lot more dangerous.
Exactly.
Fuel tanks get punctured at the bottom or the side. Pressurised hydrogen shoots a flame to the side of the car or at the ground. Petrol pours onto the ground sending the flame up and around the car, killing people. I'd prefer a hydrogen rupture! Check google for videos.
Dangerous and very inefficient.
Nice work Andrew!
The only economic way of producing hydrogen is by steam reformation of methane (natural gas). Yes, electrolysis works but it's inefficient and the electrodes are expensive.
Transportation of hydrogen requires multiple compression / cooling steps between the generation, storage, tanker, gas-station & car-fill stage.
Fuel cells, similar to electrolysis cells (they're the same thing really but in reverse) are also expensive in materials and inefficient.
The hydrogen cars need servicing every 10,000km as the fuel cells are extremely sensitive to contamination and the cars cost a lot.
You can not fill your car at home, unlike a battery electric vehicle; solar does nothing for you.
You must go to a gas station.
The end efficiency of hydrogen is similar to diesel with a similar cost yet it's still generated from natural gas.
Can you see why big oil likes hydrogen? Can you see why conventional auto likes hydrogen?
On trucks, trains & ships... hydrogen is a contender. In smaller vehicles... forget it.
I don't know the business cost of hydrogen can you elaborate? I am a small stock holder of Fcel company hydrogen energy provider company and they build hydrogen station for industrial use, are you saying as long as it is used for big vehicles and stations it could be economically and environmentally feasible?
Thermochemical is the ultimate.
@@BurriedTruth That's pretty much exactly it yes. It costs a lot of energy to produce and store hydrogen, and get it to your car. The fuel cells are heavy and the efficiency of energy from input (where you get your clean hydrogen from) to output (voltage from the fuel cell to move the car) is very low, so hydrogen is not a good deal for small electric vehicles over long distances. When you scale things up (like with semis) the batteries become a significant weight problem, but for hydrogen you just need a bigger fuel tank, which doesn't weigh or cost all that much.
For other industrial applications, you don't care about long distance or you don't care about efficiency, and you can have a large tank of hydrogen installed for refueling even in a power failure (and the potential to use that hydrogen as a backup electricity source). For industrial applications hydrogen absolutely makes sense, and they're looking at plans to convert large cargo ships to use hydrogen. Massive hydrogen tanks make far more sense than massive batteries for them.
@@BurriedTruth hydrogen is competing with lithium ion batteries as an energy storage medium, basically you can generate electricity and either put it into a battery or you can use it to make hydrogen which you store in a tank until you need to use it. You lose energy when you convert electricity to Hydrogen, it is the least dense element so it also needs to be compressed before storage which costs more energy, then when you want to use it you need to convert it back into electricity which costs more energy... in the end you only get a small fraction of the original energy back, it also relies on some expensive equipment and storage facilities compared to lithium ion batteries. this is why hydrogen will never threaten battery electric cars, but lithium ion has it's own issues because of the weight of the batteries and their energy density they don't work in transport applications where you need a lot of energy for example trains, shipping, and aircraft, these are all more suited to hydrogen with trucking being an edge case where lithium ion and hydrogen are both competitive.
@@kurayamisidekick Large cargo ships are more likely to use ammonia with some method of splitting the ammonia to get at the hydrogen.
What does he mean "fuel cell volkless" ????
Nikola is a scam! But there's companies that actually have hydrogen fuel cells already like plug power. They have it operating in Amazon, Walmart, home depot and etc.
A problem with hydrogen is that is takes more energy to extract the hydrogen than what the hydrogen will give. But if electricity is produced by wind or waves, then it makes sense. It also makes sense as a storage medium - a buffer. It also makes sense in large vehicles, like buses, trucks, trains and ships. But it appears the car will be EV. EVs can be drip charged, as we do with smart phones. We do not need to empty the battery then charge from empty. *Electricity is everywhere, even in the sticks.* An EV can even pass a charge to another EV. Supermarket car parks could all have a charger in each bay, as could company car parks, as could on-street parking meters.
Let's say you decided to take out a loan for $1M to build a 2MW wind turbine. You hope it will last for 20 years or more. You hook up with a utility to sell the power. The the wind doesn't blow you don't make money. When the wind blows, you make money - and if you have some deal with the grid where they pay you variable amounts depending on spare capacity, sometimes you might make more or less per kWh. Tell me friend, when are you producing "excess" power? Can I have it for free? It is a myth that wind or solar or hydro a being "wasted" or are available for free for storage to use later. If you paid another $1M to build a battery bank to store some of your wind and then sell it when you like, remember, you lost 10-20% of your saleable electricity in that deal. And you added to the LCOE of your power. I guess that's why wind farms don't build battery banks...
@@profkrumdieck But wind farms and solar farms most definitely are building battery banks.
I thought hydrogen would be hard and costly to produce, then I viewed some of the videos on a revolutionary method by an New Zealand based energy company called H2IL . Worth considering...
There're many ways to produce hydrogen, not just electricity. Thermal ways like steam reforming, biowaste gasification, nuclear radiolysis and thermolysis, photocatalytic........
@@dragonvic1976 Steam Reforming: Breaks Hydrogen off from Hydrocarbons, in other words: from oil.
Biowaste Gasification: What, you mean Methane? why not just burn the Methane instead?
Photocatalyitc: Really not much difference to just running electrolysis on Photovoltaic.
Radiolysis: Same.
I mean, yeah, there are many ways to skin a duck, but the "cost" is always going to be energy. The method does not really matter, you are not getting around that "expense".
@@Alexander_Kale steam reforming vs steam turbine to electricity, what way gives more efficiency???
solar PV >>>electrolysis vs photocalytic,
solar thermal (40-60%) vs solar PV>> electrolysis (16%)
gasification: what do you mean??? burn methane in ICE vs hydrogen in fuel cell.
Electricity is nonsense. You think electricity generation have more efficiency than just take energy from heat. Lol
@@dragonvic1976 If you want a constant stream of Hydrogen to run a part of your economy on, you will have to make it from water. Therefore, neither of the other methods you mentioned make any sense in that regard.
OP talked about the cost of Hydrogen. How you make it will determine your cost. And that cost, at the end of the day, will be the cost of energy.
@@Alexander_Kale cost of non-electric lower than electrolysis, so what u want to say. Sr but the high cost of hydrogen come from infrastructure, not by itself.
The only problem with hydrogen is it’s cost but I believe we will solve this problem with new generation nuclear reactors
How could an expensive nuclear reactor make it cheaper? Never mind, lets suppose some great technological breakthrough results in really cheap nuclear power. Then electricity would also get cheaper, and would still be far cheaper than hydrogen. Hydrogen is more expensive than electricity, and always will be. Hydrogen will never be cost competitive as a vehicle fuel.
The Nikola truck runs on gravity
but doesn't it take high amount of electricity to produce the hydrogen?
It does.
Electrolysis conversion efficiency is about 80%. Fuel cell efficiency is around 70%. That makes around 56% end to end eithout any compression or transport losses. Starting to look pretty poor isn't it?
Ever seen a lithium battery car fire?
Nexo weighs 1813 kg, same as Tesla Model 3 long range. Hydrogen cars will never take off because Battery EVs are far superior and cheaper to build, provide infrastructure for and to run. The ability to charge at home far outweighs having a 20 minute longer refuelling time on a road trip. Most car manufacturers have already all but given up on Hydrogen. Large trucks, ships and energy storage? Yes, looks promising but not proven yet. We have to be very careful to ensure every step of hydrogen production, storage, transport and electricity conversion is 100% powered by renewable energy. Because hydrogen energy is so inefficient (it takes around 4 units of energy to make 1 unit of Hydrogen electrical energy) even small amounts of non-renewable energy in the hydrogen energy chain can negate all the emission benefits.
Billions have been spent researching this. Think they missed hydrogen.?
Nikola 😭
talk to me when we have excess energy to convert and the grid is renewable then ill promote hyrogen
10 years too late my friend.
We should product the hydrogen immediately before the use of this gas. The water molecule disassociate the hydronium ion from the hydroxyl ion at a rate of 50%, at any point of time. The quantum sciences will offer means to take advantage of this separation. By means of wave frequency, ultrasonic water particles topological Hall Effects mixture nanoparticles reactions, or other unrealized solutions to this quandary. The main problem is that we are stuck with a lack of creativity in the quantum sciences realm.
That's a lot of meaningless waffle.
and let's not forget the health benefits of hydrogen...
hydrogen is the only right variant for future. No other variant ! But we are developing approach, which is not exact now. There must be 2 waves for hydrogen : 1/BUILD HYDROGEN PRODUCTION FACTORIES ON SITES OF RENEWABLE ENERGY STATIONS. 2/ SMALL CARS NEED TO LOAD HYDROGEN BY EXCHANGING WHOLE COMPRESSED HYDROGEN BALLOONS.
We are wrong because we do not firstly build enough hydrogen production factories on sites of renewable energy stations. We are wrong because we are firstly trying at the beginning stage to build network of hydrogen loading stations, which are COMPLEX AND EXPENSIVE.
We must change our approach. We should use hydrogen as energy storage method for renewable energy stations first. Then we should load hydrogen for usual small cars by exchanging whole standard sized compressed hydrogen gas balloons. So It is very simple and not expensive to make the global net of hydrogen supplying stations. Any normal mini shops can be a hydrogen supplying point by storing standard sized compressed hydrogen gas balloons. We do not have to use liquid hydrogen, which is difficult to collect. But we can use compressed hydrogen gas, which is not so much different in weight by comparison with liquid hydrogen. By that way, we can build social economic model "HYDROGEN EVERYWHERE", in which any robots and machines are powered by hydrogen bottles (compressed hydrogen bottles are popular everywhere as Coca Cola bottles). Then when hydrogen becomes popular, we can build more hydrogen loading stations. Hydrogen is the best solution of energy storage for all energy stations now, for example, for nuclear energy stations, for renewable energy stations, and for FUTURE NUCLEAR ENERGY REACTORS. Just install ready hydrogen production modules, and install independent hydrogen fuel cell modules in adjacent areas. Use compressed hydrogen gas at first time instead of liquid hydrogen.
Hydrogen has energy storage coefficient, which is nearly the maximum limit for all known chemical mechanisms. It means that ALL FUTURE POSSIBLE CHEMICAL BATTERIES WILL HAVE ENERGY STORAGE COEFFICIENT LESS THAN HYDROGEN. So . ANY HUMAN SIZED MOBILITY ROBOTS AND DRONES MUST BE POWERED BY HYDROGEN. A lot of army vehicles must be powered by hydrogen too, because of efficiency, even without counting environment profit.
And the last thing to note is that, hydrogen is not more dangerous than other gases and petrol. Hydrogen has big energy storage capacity, but when burning hydrogen in accidents, IT DOES NOT CREATE ACOUSTIC DESTRUCTING WAVE TO ENVIRONMENTS. It means that hydrogen burning is less destructive than gasoline burning.
I guarantee that producing compressed hydrogen balloons is easier and cheaper than producing AAA batteries. Yeah, hydrogen can seep through small gaps of bad material walls, but if hydrogen leaks 1gr-10gr per months for ballon 1kg, then it is not a problem. Building hydrogen loading station is not much expensive than building electric loading station. And no need to build hydrogen supplying station, which can be any simple warehouse or mini shop for storing compressed hydrogen balloons.
We have no doubt that hydrogen is the only reasonable variant for renewable energy, because when we talk about renewable energy storage approach, we must talk about the energy storage scale, at which abundant of renewable energy for whole long period (3-6 months) must be packed entirely in some energy carrier. At the class of this colossal energy storage scale, THIS ENERGY CARRIER MUST BE ONLY HYDROGEN, but no other chemical batteries. You can not pack solar farm energy of 6 months into lithium batteries, but you can pack them all into hydrogen.
Many people, especially EU governments still do not estimate enough important role of hydrogen. Hydrogen is the key factor for renewable energy in offshore and building marine society. Far offshore wind energy, ocean wave energy, tidal energy and even ocean solar energy must live with hydrogen. Hydrogen is the key factor for energy-autonomous floating offshore usual army bases (hydrogen boats around floating ocean offshore energy stations), and of course for social floating ocean offshore units too. HYDROGEN ECONOMY WILL CHANGE GEOPOLICY IN EU, because hydrogen economy is the most reliable way to make EU to be less depended on gas suppliers for winter warming. It means that, people can harness solar energy in summers and pack it into hydrogen for winter warming.
Hydrogen economy is the most basic trend in economy-technology transition now.
We sometimes misunderstand the role of hydrogen economy when we see that some automobile manufactures right now concentrate only on electric vehicles. Yeah, hydrogen vehicles are not so profitable right now, because WE DO NOT HAVE ENOUGH HYDROGEN and hydrogen supplying networks. We still do not build hydrogen productions factories for renewable energy stations. How many hydrogen production factories on sites of renewable energy stations worldwide now ? May be 5-10 hydrogen production factories worldwide at this time. But when we start to build hydrogen production factories, then it is easy and quickly, and we will see that, not only a lot of hydrogen vehicles, but also HYDROGEN ANYWHERE with a lot of human sized mobility hydrogen robots and machines.
"Balloons"? The Toyota Mirai runs on hydrogen, but in order to store enough hydrogen to get a 300 mile range, they needed to compress that gas to 10,000 psi - that is 5 TONS on every square inch! That in turn requires extremely strong expensive carbon fiber storage tanks. No mere balloon can do that. A weather balloon could perhaps hold enough hydrogen for a mile of driving, certainly not enough to be practical.
You think that hydrogen is the only solution, but you really don't know enough about it, or know enough about the other alternatives, to realize why that simply isn't the case.
24 volts is political mother nature will take care of her self
Remember to re-read before posting. Whole sentences carry your thot better, if you want to bring people along is see what you are saying/suggesting.
"Andrew Clennett is passionate about the potential of a new energy source, one that could fuel our lives cleanly and sustainably."
Hydrogen is not an energy source. It is not a replacement for fossil fuels. It is a battery replacement and it is a very poor one at that.
99% of hydrogen comes from fossil fuels because electrolysis is very inefficient and very expensive.
Well aluminium plants are extremely power-hungry,that's why they're built next to a renewable source usually hydro-electric,so possibly hydrogen production can do the same.Has to be cheaper than drilling down a couple of miles for oil.
@@MrBoreray You get energy out of drilling for oil… well… in the form of oil. You only lose energy by making hydrogen. Currently, 99% of the stuff is made from fossil fuels, almost entirely from natural gas. Around the world, a massive quantity of natural gas is still just flared off because it cannot be transported cheaply enough. You could burn that in cars instead of making an even more difficult chemical to transport. Natural gas is cheaper and easier to transport in every way, yet we still don't use it for non-commercial vehicles in virtually the entire world.
@@MrBoreray While you were dreaming about hydrogen they drilled another ten fracking wells.
You talk about Nikola? Seriously?
I guess you can get any clown up on stage here
Still ignoring the storage problems, and the efficiency problems, and most important, the high cost problem. Hydrogen cannot compete economically with cheaper electricity.