Hey everyone, first of all, thank you for 500 (and 600!) subscribers! This last month has been crazy, I've gone from mid-200s to 600 out of nowhere, thank you! I know this video is about a topic that has been beaten to death, but I find it really interesting and I want to cover more unmade stories in the future, if you want to see that? Lastly, follow me on Twitter! Twitter is honestly the best place to reach me and I always give previews of videos and updates etc, so you can keep up to date! Thanks again for 500 and here's to 1k maybe??
I actually liked the trial. It introduced us to the boatyard, the scrapyard, the knacker's yard...Colin Baker was definitely the doctor who was poorest served by the showrunners. The politics going on behind the scenes overshadowed his time as the doctor and really he was let down by it all and suffers in the fans' memories as a result.
The main reason I would have wanted to see 'Yellow Fever and How to cure It' is because I live in Singapore. The Nightmare Fair and Mission to Magnus is 2 of my favourite lost stories. The Hollows of Time has some incredible ideas. I don't know whether people would have liked the lost season 23 or not but I would have really liked it.
Love Trial of a Time Lord, but this was have been amazing... The Big Finish audio are good though and available in Spotify. I still can't forgive the BBC for the way Colin was treated, he is my favourite Doctor. Worth pointing out though, the reason he wasnt there for the regeneration scene is because Colin, quite rightly, told them where they could stick it.
Well.. wouldn’t you have? It is the same as eccleston with day of the Doctor! They don’t listen to his opinions and treat him badly Then ask him to reprise his role later and end up regretting it!
In fairness Celetial Toymaker is 3/4 missing so I don't think we can judge. And Michael Gough (pronounced 'Goff') is a screen legend of the ilk of Christopher Lee and Peter Cushing. You kinda glossed over him. I would've loved him to return - but yes, video game monsters would have dated badly. Or would look amazingly retro :D
I'm actually in the middle of Big Finish's "Lost Stories" adaptation of season 23 (available on Spotify FOR FREE) and I'm quite enjoying it. I was a massive fan of Six already but Peri hadn't quite won me over yet, and I find them both really charming in this season. The two characters are finally getting some properly affectionate moments that showcase a real, developing relationship. I'm not sure if it would have turned public opinion around on the show as a whole, but I think it fixes a lot of the problems left in the wake of season 22. And it doesn't have to deal with the production nightmare that plagued Trial of a Time Lord, so we get to see a complete series vision brought to life.
just got reccomended, saw the small viewer count. You've come far, now i cant act like ive been here for it, started watching like 4 days ago in all honesty, but this is nice to see
There's a synopsis of Doctor Who The Children of January by Callan from Galactical co.uk saying," The Doctor and Peri land on a mysterious planet in a parallel universe as then The Z'ros are in war against the 'Children of January' who are a peaceful but race interfered from the Z'ros- how can the Doctor broker a peace before starting the war with Peri in the middle?" The intended airing for the story was be on February 13- March 6 1986 with the four part episode format changed for Two Part- 45 minutes of run time. This story also exists with artwork photographs of the serial. More at: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Children_of_January(a_Doctor_Who_story)
@@frazzlesreviews5379 yeah but Eric Saward finished it and then JNT fought with Saward over it leading to Saward leaving the show and Pip and Jane Baker writing their own script without looking at the origin. I'll take a script by Robert Holmes and Eric Saward over Pip and Jane Baker any day.
It would have been a bit of an old enemy overload having the Toymaker, Master, Rani, Autons, Sil and Ice Warriors in one season. Still probably better than what we got
Interesting video, thanks. For the record, Dr Who was axed at first, then the decision was reversed and the show put on hiatus. Being a fan at the time, it was devastating news to hear it was gone, and it was only due to public pressure that Grade did not get what he wanted.
It´s fun to rewatch (or rather hear because I`m at work) these videos with all the different subscriber numbers. I`v listened to the 200 and the 1000 and now the 500 subscriber specials. Whilst the channel hast 12.4 k now.
Michael grads handling of doctor who did not help the show in any way he gave no instructions on what he felt was wrong and made clear if that if he could gat away with it he whole cancel the series out right as a result the BBC could not replace JNT even thou he wanted out as no one wanted the job not to mention putting doctor who against coronation street for season 24 on was only going to ensure that the viewing figures whuold go down. leaving the show fataly damaged.
That's a fair point. However, Grade did tell JNT that the show had become too violent, so the violence was toned down slightly during the McCoy era. As a whole, though, he definitely didn't cancel the show because he wanted it to be better, it was 100% a move made out of spite. But I moreso meant that it has the unintentional effect of improving Doctor Who and laying the basis for NuWho, because Season 26 was good and fans felt slighted, like it had been cut out from under them. If the show had been cancelled after, say, Season 23 or 24, there might not have been that movement among fans
There are more theories of Callan’s story “The Children of January” such as the Doctor talking with the leader of the outcasts saying that the planet they are on now was theirs but was by the Z’ros during a war. The Z’ros commanders the army to build a laser cannon to destroy the intruders ship- The Doctor’s TARDIS, then Peri gets only her head bruised but is okay. The Doctor tries to negotiate with the Z’ros but the commander of Z’ros army enforces the Doctor to surrender. He then tricks the Z’ros and escapes. The Doctor and Peri plan on exploding the Z’ros ship, and did so having the Z’ros to evacuate. The Doctor tells the Z’ros leader to make peace with “The Children of January” to sustain the planet for farming and resources. So the Doctor and Peri in the end continue in their travels
Wait they actually planned for different episodes for season 23? I assumed they just came up with the episode ideas where told about the trial format and worked it around that.
I KNEW about The Celestial Toymaker and the Autons storylines from attending Panopticon New Orleans back in the summer of 1985 😎❤️🤞 My optimism was WAYYYYYY high then the “Trial” happened instead 😢😢🤬
Hi I enjoy Timelord Faults and all. In fact I think it's all-over-the-place structure somehow makes it enjoyable. Probably because that and other factors make it an oddity and sometimes oddity itself can make for something more interesting. Even a fluctuation in quality can adversely make something more engaging as the viewer has to give greater concentration and reflection to resolve what they make of the whole. Maybe that is what polarises viewers on TTL; the differences they form of the whole.
If doctor who wasn't put on hiatus 1985:doctor who isn't put on hiatus 1986:the lost season 23 airs and John Nathan-Turner leaves as producer 1987:a new producer comes on to doctor who, a new title sequence is made in the same vein of Sylvester McCoy's titles with the Dominic glynn theme and Colin's face. Peri leaves and a new companion joins, and the sixth doctor costume changes to the blue one he has for big finish, and is made more friendly 1988:Remembrance of the daleks Airs and is regarded as one of the best stories of Colin bakers era and the show as a whole, and is also considered the 25th anniversary instead of Silver nemesis 1989:Colin leaves and regenerates 1990:the seventh doctors first Season. The companion leaves midway and a new companion joins. The seventh doctor is more sinister 1991:the seventh doctor leaves and is considered the shortest era, with low ratings for season 27, the serial count is shortened to 4 and is on the verge of cancelation. Tomb of the cybermen is found in a vault. 1992:the eighth doctor debuts 1993:the 30th anniversary special happens and every doctor from 3-8 is involved, with the seventh doctor being stuck in a time vortex. The companion leaves and Bernice Summerfield joins.
Many of these details and titles would have changed anyway before production and broadcast. YFAHTCI would never have gone out under that title. Ian Levine states that the season would have ended with a story called "Gallifrey"
Is it possible to expand on why Michael Grade put the show on hiatus? Simply disliking the show isn’t good enough, there must have been more underlying reasons. And why did it come back as only 25 minute episodes? There is a lot you have left out there.
I mean Michael Grade legit just hated Doctor Who and thought it was stupid and dated. He thought that if he just quietly cancelled the show people wouldn’t care. And with the 25 minute episodes I believe they returned to that format because they figured that it did better ratings wise than the 45 minute stuff so they went back to it to see if that helped.
Michael Grade didn’t realise just how popular Doctor Who was. He felt it was dated and that they couldn’t compete with Hollywood productions of the time (a statement that rightfully irritated Eric Saward as in commentary for a DVD he mentions that a Grade had the power to give the show the money and time they needed, and could have matched these American shows if the BBC had been supported as much). Grade thought he could simply take it off air and nobody would notice. However he was clearly mistaken and the backlash was huge. The BBC and Grade in particular then simply did not care for science fiction as the Tripods was also cancelled after its second season. They wanted to focus on soaps, as they did with EastEnders. The BBC were as clueless then as they are now on what to do with Doctor Who and they have no idea of the mood of the fans or casual audience, which they clearly don’t understand. Never have and never will.
1 - Grade was in a relationship with Colin Baker's ex-wife, Liza Goddard. That came out after Baker's sacking, some have said it was a factor, some have said it wasn't. 2 - Grade was comparing the series to Star Wars in terms of quality, but rather hypocritically wouldn't give it the budget or allow it the creative freedom to compete with it. 3 - The BBC and sci-fi don't go together. The producers of Red Dwarf said it only got commissioned because the BBC thought it made fun of sci-fi and it's fans.
@@Sir_Gerald_Nosehairs. Michael Grade was a childish scumbag desperately trying to seem like an adult. To his credit though, he eventually matured and when Russell T Davies brought Doctor Who back, Grade admitted that he grew to respect the show. Here's a quote from C.S. Lewis which basically summarises how Grade finally grew up. "To admire the grown up because it is grown up, to blush at the suspicion of being childish; these are the marks of really arrested development. When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty I read them openly. When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up.” That's how Grade saw Doctor Who until he actually matured. It also didn't help that he was banging Colin Baker's ex-wife. I have no idea if he grew out of that sort of behaviour too.
after having listned to the big finish audio productions of season 23... it was the politics going on behind the scenes, the director michael grade wanted the show dead and gone,....so the budget was limited, new shows like eastenders,and old ones grange hill, many other dramas....like borgias, were made during this period... poor colin baker, had a very rough treatment , from the costume he abs hated, and sloppy stories and bad writing, the mediocre *twin dilema* and the great vengance on varos, and the greatest villan sil, to the dreadful timelash....... the clossal clash between eric saward & JNT, everything from choice of doctor to costume, scripts, direction of the show and the hysterical soap opera going on, the hitaus, were the show was canclled and viewer backlash returned it..... the big finish audio series, has redemed colin baker the 6th doctor and peri finally, there was some bitterness behind the scenes with saward, jnt,colin baker and nicola bryant... . after the end of the trial of the timelord * aka the trial of the series* was a massive risk, terror of the vervoids was more like a classic dr who episode, that is why its more popular, the rest is messy plot, very understandble from the death of robert holmes and the depature of saward, to the desperate pip and jane baker coming to save the finale from not airing at all...
Hey everyone, first of all, thank you for 500 (and 600!) subscribers! This last month has been crazy, I've gone from mid-200s to 600 out of nowhere, thank you!
I know this video is about a topic that has been beaten to death, but I find it really interesting and I want to cover more unmade stories in the future, if you want to see that?
Lastly, follow me on Twitter! Twitter is honestly the best place to reach me and I always give previews of videos and updates etc, so you can keep up to date!
Thanks again for 500 and here's to 1k maybe??
Looking at your comment where you are surprised your subscribers have jumped from under 300 to 600 and now four months later you have almost 8000 lol.
R.I.P. Wally K Daly (1935-2020)
@@shireknight01 Add another 3 months and we're at 15k!
@@tatertatertatertatertater and now 32.7k, nearly a year and a half after posting this
You have 34.8k subscribers in August 2021. Covid was your friend.
I actually liked the trial. It introduced us to the boatyard, the scrapyard, the knacker's yard...Colin Baker was definitely the doctor who was poorest served by the showrunners. The politics going on behind the scenes overshadowed his time as the doctor and really he was let down by it all and suffers in the fans' memories as a result.
THE CELESTIAL TOYMAKER IS GOOD. I WILL FIGHT YOU. I WAS ON BOARD UNTIL YOU SAID THIS WORD CRIME.
There are SOME good parts, but 80% of it is pure traasshhh
Jimmy Chungus I agree with this man!
@@HarboWholmes never it is a great episode
The main reason I would have wanted to see 'Yellow Fever and How to cure It' is because I live in Singapore.
The Nightmare Fair and Mission to Magnus is 2 of my favourite lost stories.
The Hollows of Time has some incredible ideas.
I don't know whether people would have liked the lost season 23 or not but I would have really liked it.
I would have like it. I would rather have this than S22, Trial of a Time Lord or S24
Love Trial of a Time Lord, but this was have been amazing... The Big Finish audio are good though and available in Spotify. I still can't forgive the BBC for the way Colin was treated, he is my favourite Doctor. Worth pointing out though, the reason he wasnt there for the regeneration scene is because Colin, quite rightly, told them where they could stick it.
Well.. wouldn’t you have? It is the same as eccleston with day of the Doctor! They don’t listen to his opinions and treat him badly Then ask him to reprise his role later and end up regretting it!
In fairness Celetial Toymaker is 3/4 missing so I don't think we can judge. And Michael Gough (pronounced 'Goff') is a screen legend of the ilk of Christopher Lee and Peter Cushing. You kinda glossed over him. I would've loved him to return - but yes, video game monsters would have dated badly. Or would look amazingly retro :D
I'm actually in the middle of Big Finish's "Lost Stories" adaptation of season 23 (available on Spotify FOR FREE) and I'm quite enjoying it. I was a massive fan of Six already but Peri hadn't quite won me over yet, and I find them both really charming in this season. The two characters are finally getting some properly affectionate moments that showcase a real, developing relationship. I'm not sure if it would have turned public opinion around on the show as a whole, but I think it fixes a lot of the problems left in the wake of season 22. And it doesn't have to deal with the production nightmare that plagued Trial of a Time Lord, so we get to see a complete series vision brought to life.
just got reccomended, saw the small viewer count. You've come far, now i cant act like ive been here for it, started watching like 4 days ago in all honesty, but this is nice to see
There's a synopsis of Doctor Who The Children of January by Callan from Galactical co.uk saying," The Doctor and Peri land on a mysterious planet in a parallel universe as then The Z'ros are in war against the 'Children of January' who are a peaceful but race interfered from the Z'ros- how can the Doctor broker a peace before starting the war with Peri in the middle?"
The intended airing for the story was be on February 13- March 6 1986 with the four part episode format changed for Two Part- 45 minutes of run time.
This story also exists with artwork photographs of the serial.
More at:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Children_of_January(a_Doctor_Who_story)
As much as I would've loved that lost season, Trial of Time Lord remains one of my favourite series of Doctor Who.
I do think it's not as bad as people like to claim, it just suffered from too much interference and production woes. It was a bit too ambitious!
Da
It would've been better if they didn't replace Robert Holmes's finale script with Pip and Jane Baker's
@@CoalDiamondandhisawesomeness Holmes’ script was never finished because he died.
@@frazzlesreviews5379 yeah but Eric Saward finished it and then JNT fought with Saward over it leading to Saward leaving the show and Pip and Jane Baker writing their own script without looking at the origin. I'll take a script by Robert Holmes and Eric Saward over Pip and Jane Baker any day.
It would have been a bit of an old enemy overload having the Toymaker, Master, Rani, Autons, Sil and Ice Warriors in one season. Still probably better than what we got
Thank you for your amazing work in producing these. Each of them are treasures for classic series fandom.
Shame The Nightmare Fair never happened. The Celestial Toymaker would then have had a TV story that exists!
That damn “trial” and Michael Grade personally killed Collin’s Doctor 🤬😡🤬😢😢
I hated the firing of Colin
Interesting video, thanks. For the record, Dr Who was axed at first, then the decision was reversed and the show put on hiatus. Being a fan at the time, it was devastating news to hear it was gone, and it was only due to public pressure that Grade did not get what he wanted.
This is the most frustrating thing ever. Bloody Micheal Grade!
It´s fun to rewatch (or rather hear because I`m at work) these videos with all the different subscriber numbers. I`v listened to the 200 and the 1000 and now the 500 subscriber specials. Whilst the channel hast 12.4 k now.
Michael grads handling of doctor who did not help the show in any way he gave no instructions on what he felt was wrong and made clear if that if he could gat away with it he whole cancel the series out right as a result the BBC could not replace JNT even thou he wanted out as no one wanted the job not to mention putting doctor who against coronation street for season 24 on was only going to ensure that the viewing figures whuold go down. leaving the show fataly damaged.
That's a fair point. However, Grade did tell JNT that the show had become too violent, so the violence was toned down slightly during the McCoy era.
As a whole, though, he definitely didn't cancel the show because he wanted it to be better, it was 100% a move made out of spite. But I moreso meant that it has the unintentional effect of improving Doctor Who and laying the basis for NuWho, because Season 26 was good and fans felt slighted, like it had been cut out from under them. If the show had been cancelled after, say, Season 23 or 24, there might not have been that movement among fans
congrats on 600 subscribers! well deserved.
Thank you! 😄
At least they are on Audio form now.
There are more theories of Callan’s story “The Children of January” such as the Doctor talking with the leader of the outcasts saying that the planet they are on now was theirs but was by the Z’ros during a war. The Z’ros commanders the army to build a laser cannon to destroy the intruders ship- The Doctor’s TARDIS, then Peri gets only her head bruised but is okay. The Doctor tries to negotiate with the Z’ros but the commander of Z’ros army enforces the Doctor to surrender. He then tricks the Z’ros and escapes. The Doctor and Peri plan on exploding the Z’ros ship, and did so having the Z’ros to evacuate. The Doctor tells the Z’ros leader to make peace with “The Children of January” to sustain the planet for farming and resources. So the Doctor and Peri in the end continue in their travels
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Children_of_January_(A_Doctor_Who_story)
Wait they actually planned for different episodes for season 23? I assumed they just came up with the episode ideas where told about the trial format and worked it around that.
Celestial Toymaker is a decent story.
I KNEW about The Celestial Toymaker and the Autons storylines from attending Panopticon New Orleans back in the summer of 1985 😎❤️🤞
My optimism was WAYYYYYY high then the “Trial” happened instead 😢😢🤬
To be honest if he didn’t put it on hiatusif Doctor Who did continue past 1989
Hi I enjoy Timelord Faults and all. In fact I think it's all-over-the-place structure somehow makes it enjoyable. Probably because that and other factors make it an oddity and sometimes oddity itself can make for something more interesting. Even a fluctuation in quality can adversely make something more engaging as the viewer has to give greater concentration and reflection to resolve what they make of the whole. Maybe that is what polarises viewers on TTL; the differences they form of the whole.
If doctor who wasn't put on hiatus
1985:doctor who isn't put on hiatus
1986:the lost season 23 airs and John Nathan-Turner leaves as producer
1987:a new producer comes on to doctor who, a new title sequence is made in the same vein of Sylvester McCoy's titles with the Dominic glynn theme and Colin's face. Peri leaves and a new companion joins, and the sixth doctor costume changes to the blue one he has for big finish, and is made more friendly
1988:Remembrance of the daleks Airs and is regarded as one of the best stories of Colin bakers era and the show as a whole, and is also considered the 25th anniversary instead of Silver nemesis
1989:Colin leaves and regenerates
1990:the seventh doctors first Season. The companion leaves midway and a new companion joins. The seventh doctor is more sinister
1991:the seventh doctor leaves and is considered the shortest era, with low ratings for season 27, the serial count is shortened to 4 and is on the verge of cancelation. Tomb of the cybermen is found in a vault.
1992:the eighth doctor debuts
1993:the 30th anniversary special happens and every doctor from 3-8 is involved, with the seventh doctor being stuck in a time vortex. The companion leaves and Bernice Summerfield joins.
One day I’m going to get to write a Doctor Who episode and I’m gonna make Doctor In Distress the McGuffin at the end of the episode
Many of these details and titles would have changed anyway before production and broadcast. YFAHTCI would never have gone out under that title. Ian Levine states that the season would have ended with a story called "Gallifrey"
Hi I recently subed then saw this vid
R.I.P. “The Children of January” 7:53
I'm going to be pedantic and point out that Saward is pronounced "SAY-wood" and Gough is pronounced "goff".
you should what would’ve been series 27
GRADE!
True
Is it possible to expand on why Michael Grade put the show on hiatus? Simply disliking the show isn’t good enough, there must have been more underlying reasons. And why did it come back as only 25 minute episodes? There is a lot you have left out there.
I mean Michael Grade legit just hated Doctor Who and thought it was stupid and dated. He thought that if he just quietly cancelled the show people wouldn’t care. And with the 25 minute episodes I believe they returned to that format because they figured that it did better ratings wise than the 45 minute stuff so they went back to it to see if that helped.
Michael Grade didn’t realise just how popular Doctor Who was. He felt it was dated and that they couldn’t compete with Hollywood productions of the time (a statement that rightfully irritated Eric Saward as in commentary for a DVD he mentions that a Grade had the power to give the show the money and time they needed, and could have matched these American shows if the BBC had been supported as much). Grade thought he could simply take it off air and nobody would notice. However he was clearly mistaken and the backlash was huge. The BBC and Grade in particular then simply did not care for science fiction as the Tripods was also cancelled after its second season. They wanted to focus on soaps, as they did with EastEnders. The BBC were as clueless then as they are now on what to do with Doctor Who and they have no idea of the mood of the fans or casual audience, which they clearly don’t understand. Never have and never will.
@@floydian2007 The money for the third Tripods season was diverted to season 23 of Doctor Who.
1 - Grade was in a relationship with Colin Baker's ex-wife, Liza Goddard. That came out after Baker's sacking, some have said it was a factor, some have said it wasn't.
2 - Grade was comparing the series to Star Wars in terms of quality, but rather hypocritically wouldn't give it the budget or allow it the creative freedom to compete with it.
3 - The BBC and sci-fi don't go together. The producers of Red Dwarf said it only got commissioned because the BBC thought it made fun of sci-fi and it's fans.
@@Sir_Gerald_Nosehairs. Michael Grade was a childish scumbag desperately trying to seem like an adult. To his credit though, he eventually matured and when Russell T Davies brought Doctor Who back, Grade admitted that he grew to respect the show. Here's a quote from C.S. Lewis which basically summarises how Grade finally grew up.
"To admire the grown up because it is grown up, to blush at the suspicion of being childish; these are the marks of really arrested development. When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty I read them openly. When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up.”
That's how Grade saw Doctor Who until he actually matured. It also didn't help that he was banging Colin Baker's ex-wife. I have no idea if he grew out of that sort of behaviour too.
Did you say Michael Gove?!
R.I.P “The Ultimate Evil” 4:08
I enjoy most of Trial. Only the Vervoid story I find dull. I think things worked out for the best in the long run.
Your pronunciations are wrong, Daly is pronounced Daily, Saward is pronounced SAYWARD, and Gough is pronounced GOFF.
after having listned to the big finish audio productions of season 23...
it was the politics going on behind the scenes,
the director michael grade wanted the show dead and gone,....so the budget was limited, new shows like eastenders,and old ones grange hill, many other dramas....like borgias, were made during this period...
poor colin baker, had a very rough treatment , from the costume he abs hated, and sloppy stories and bad writing,
the mediocre *twin dilema* and the great vengance on varos, and the greatest villan sil, to the dreadful timelash.......
the clossal clash between eric saward & JNT, everything from choice of doctor to costume, scripts, direction of the show and the hysterical soap opera going on, the hitaus, were the show was canclled and viewer backlash returned it.....
the big finish audio series, has redemed colin baker the 6th doctor and peri finally, there was some bitterness behind the scenes with saward, jnt,colin baker and nicola bryant...
.
after the end of the trial of the timelord * aka the trial of the series* was a massive risk,
terror of the vervoids was more like a classic dr who episode, that is why its more popular,
the rest is messy plot, very understandble from the death of robert holmes and the depature of saward, to the desperate pip and jane baker coming to save the finale from not airing at all...