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The exhaust manifold integrated to the cylinder head is very bad for tuning for high rpm and also transfers more heat to the cylinder head, one piece is saved and the engine warms up before the rest is all bad. The engines are currently basically garbage.
K20A is the better one for now. Wish you would have added how horrible the Honda, paddle shifted CVT is. Under 10K worth of performance driving, the pulley's scored up fast. CVT'S are not performance transmissions. They should have never put paddle shifters on it. All shifting on a CVT is simulated or just a held position on the pulley's.
bug productions I knew that in the early 90,s dude, Honda always lead the way putting racing engines in the road at affordable prices for the public domain
Not the first time they've done that B20A vs the entire rest of the B-series platform. Or the DOHC "D" Series, which share very little with the rest of the line.
Do d16z6 next. That's the engine that I am currently building to handle 400+ HP. People don't give the single cam enough credit when it's actually a cost effective route.
Watchu talkin bout... the single cams have been gettin clout for the last decade now man. Goto any honda specific show an ull see more D or F series single cam builds than u will B or H's nowadays.
As long as you keep the torque low on the k20a k20a2 you can push 400bhp on a stock engine and still be reliable the con rods are the weak point on the k20a
Although the k20a2 that was used in the type s Rsx was the same engine used in the ep3 type r civic. It's not the same as the k20A used in the itr,the a has a higher redline,higher compression and 20 more hp
The JDM EP3 Type R used the same K20A as the DC5 Integra Type R. The UKDM EP3 Type R used the same K20A2 that’s in the pre facelift RSX Type S. The US EP3 had a K20A3 which only made 160hp
K20A with forced induction >K20c anyday of the week.K20c has vtec only on exhaust cam and it has the same problem like the 9gen civic si K24Z7 and that is the integrated exhaust manifold in the head stock vs stock both are in different league but if talk about modified then K20A is simply a more performance oriented engine and the cylinder head of the K20A flows way better as compared to the K20c
It doesn't flow as well because of the direct injection. This swirls the air giving it more grunt down low and a cleaner burning fuel mix. Hondata ported a k20c head and it flowed just as well as older k series, but it kills the low end torque. K20c1 is for the guy who wants a turbo Honda, but don't want to deal with the headache doing it yourself causes.
@@snakeballs8965 the exhaust maniflold is also integrated in the cylinder head it can never flow as good as a K20A even if ported.same is the problem with the 9gen civc si k24z7
you are wrong there look more into the k20c i havea k20c2 motor and it would cost me more to get a k24a/k20a to the same power with the stock k20c1 motor you can get it to 450hp safely with same internals k20/k24 you have to change everthing out plus sleeve it . k20c1 you dont need to sleeve it also the k20c4 already comes sleeved i for my k20c2 for free reason i am trying to build it up and it only has 17k miles on it people like you talk but dont know cars good luck
@@beargang8853 dude do you have a base Civic LX? Those are the only cars i know of with the K20C2 and I completely agree with you. People sleep on it because it only makes 158hp stock, but it's just a type R engine without the head, turbo, or internals. I like the engine so much more than the shitty 1.5t they've been putting in everything.
@Arthur Wall all that torque breaking rods or spinning tyres coz its a FWD. By the way k24 makes torque on boost. Mine is making 400 lb and 511 hp on 15 psi.stock k24a2. A k20 will make near 350 lb torque on 15 psi depending upon the turbo size.but still its enough.and wow that 8600 rev limits ..
I have had many civics in my life but I love my FK8. However I miss my 99 EM1 with a B16B. The K20C is more practical because of low torque but I do miss that high rev sound of the old Bseries. I liked my 13 FB6 K24 flet like a good balance.
No offense but why would you spend the money for a B16B to swap into an EM1 that already had a B16A* that you could just buy cams and springs for to equal the power?
Are the mounts in the same spots? Can you swap a k20c into car that has a k20a? I’ve beeen trying to figure this out for a minute. I have a k20c I’m putting into a Mini Cooper. I want to know if I can use a subframe swap kit for a k20a
We see now k20 stock block with only springs and retainers boosted holding 700+ no problems, my neighbor has one 625 hp beating it now for a year and 2 months. K20A the perfect engine so far honda has built.
k20c is a far superior engine, but we are going to have to wait until the aftermarket section expands. that said the engine im interested in is the one used in the 130n it makes even more torque than the k20c for its power range.
Lucrative Stance Oh my bad. I started adding credits at the top right of my videos but that layer must’ve gotten disabled before exporting! I never noticed. Super sorry about that man.
why cant ''normal people '' buy the k20c1 and drop it in their s2000s or civics ? they seem to only sell the crate engine for track use , why? is there any loopholes around this to bring this engine to the street ? cause im sure many people like me watching this videos CAN AFFORD to spend 6G on the Motor , but CANT AFFORD to spend 40G on a new CIVIC TYPE R
If you hunt enough on google you can find them. But it's such a complex design and needs so much modification that at the end of it you've sank so much into it that you'd be better off buying a used low mileage type r. It's not like the bare bones 4 cylinder engines in the past that you could swap motor mounts, an ecu, and a wiring harness and you'd be set.
you can buy a k20c2 that is 500-600$ on ebay low miles a its the same block and put change the Internals. but if you are the type of person who just does a swap and dosnt build their motor whats the point of the swap
BearGang you ain't getting a low mileage engine k series that cheap k20a3 maybe but you need all the stuff to swap engine into car is going to be a couple thousand dollars. You will never find the 1000 $ fabled swap, sure some might have but they knew the person or it was a friend. You would be better of getting forged rods pistons and install in motor then eBay turbo it. You will still be cheaper than k series swap. With Honda's you can put forged rods and pistons in motor while it sits in the car
Agreed. Tbh, Im more of a B series fan myself. Though the K is definitely the superior motor, I'd rather daily a B16/17/18 with bolt ons because to me they sound better.
Not me that's for sure, lol. To me it's just a better driving experience, the B just sounds more raw than the K and it sort of gives me a nostalgic feeling. Like I'm in the early 2000s during the tuner craze.
@@J3Fox00 my H22 swap with JDM Fujitsubo header and Greddy exhaust sounds way more splattery and backfirey than my RSX type s with nvidia exhaust. RSX handles better, but that exhaust sound is priceless
I have a k24a with a k20a head. The first version was all stock internals N/A. Dyno 212 hp at the tires. 2nd and current set up with a Garrett t3, 1050cc injectors, running low boost (11psi)on stock internals 404 hp at the tires. Next version will get rods, pistons and cams with 20psi. Hoping for 600 hp. I'll stick with the A series.
we are easily getting 600whp+ on stock K20C in our Type Rs now. Look it up. With upgraded turbo of course. We even have drop in turbos putting out 600whp.
K20c is not Honda , k20c was designed and developed in Honda America not the original Honda japan! I was a fan of Honda but no longer because Honda moved from being a Japanese to Americanised .
I am running an EP3 type r With 409 hp And it is coping with the power absolutely fine just like you said I prefer the older K 20A as I love to hear these engines scream 😱
whats not to love about the k series? High flowing head from factory, holds 400whp just fine on an unopened motor, goes quick in NA or turbocharged applications.
@@mrniceguy7168with proper tuning on a k20, upto 500hp, even boosted, its lifetime won't be decreased from stock. Bad tuning and it's done in the first dyno run. You have to make absolutely insane power to start worrying about actually bending rods or something due to too much torque. It's almost always detonation that kills things, which tuning. Of course more power means more cylinder pressure means more chance of det. Take det out of the equation and I'd bet a k20 could do 800hp and last as long as stock..but unfortunately det is always part of the equation.
@@forbiddenera are there any examples of high mileage high horsepower K engines? I’m dubious that a high horsepower K engine can go over 200k miles like most other Honda engines can easily do
@@mrniceguy7168 I'm sure there is lots. K is better than B, and I've had several B's run for ages at 350hp which were all engines with at least 250,000km on them and the only time one has died was from detonation
K20C doesnt sound as nice yeah, but I appreciate that Honda is putting in a car as good as the FK8 hopefully they shove a K20C4 or something detuned in the 11th gen Si haha
The K20C guys will soon get to share some of the same problems as us ford ecoboost guys have. The integrated manifold prevents us from going over 600hp and creates a ton of backpressure on the exhaust side. Its really a shame because the closed deck ecboost blocks are pretty stout but we cant do shit about the head. If i was building a honda i would definitely go with the k24 or k20a
@jachpriboy8989 retarded honda fanboi, show me a past 600whp civic type r using the k20c? Stoo being a fanboi and accept the fact kid, thats why people go for the k20's without the integrated manifold. I cant stand wanna be honda fantards like you.2
If I was a betting man, Id skip the new CTR and buy a Civic Sport and drop a turbo K20A. If someone isnt making mounting hardware for this retrofit, they should and keep me in mind for royalties...
@@smokepeddler I'm on stock axles tranny, transfer, diff, turbo and internals and I'm pushing 420whp. As long as you slip the clutch instead of dumping it you won't break until after 550-600whp.
k20c can handle alot more hp than the K20a stock the k20c4 is the same as the k20c2 but they beefed up internals even has cast iron sleeves but only offer in japan i have a k20c2 motor and trann i plan on swaping in my 1997 Prelude already have a fab guy ready to help me get it in there than once it fits ill clean up the car more and mostly buy a 2nd motor to beef up while. i want to send it to 4pison to beef up the 2nd motor i used to want to have k24 but than when i started doing my reserach k20c is way better
I choose the K20C1 4my 2008 Honda Element SC daily driver because of the low end torque. I plan the elimination of steering hydraulics by upgrading 2a full EPS steering rack. My only concerns now are the adaptation of the unit as a direct bolt in, i.e. engine mounts, AC compressor, alternator &computer. I'm not worried about intercooler piping, turbo lubrication or cooling. Any help here?
Bottom line, one engine was designed for a turbo and the other one was not. In my opinion, leave the K20C stock and enjoy it as it is. According to this guy, try to tune the type R too much and you'll bend the rods. At the end of the day, it's not worth it. Enjoy the car in its stock form and you'll get easily 200 to 300,000 mi with proper maintenance.
K20a2/z1/z3 can survive 500whp daily driven and be fine. The k20c can not. Just saying. The k20c was ment to be a track midrange car while the k20a/z are made to be a all around engine.
Does anyone remember The Pontiac GTP 3.6L Supercharged V6 from back in the day? It was really easy to get power out of but Chevy/Grand Am of course fucked it up by making its transmission only able to hold just barely more power than what it made before it turned into a grenade. Why would Chevy/Grand Am do something like that to The Grand Am GTP if they knew how easy it was to modify and make more power? Okay so bare with me...Why would Honda design a turbo engine that couldn't stand at least 100-200 more torque knowing that turbo engines(Honda or otherwise)are probably the most modified cars in the entire world besides V8's? (I'm not getting into that discussion what's modified more turbo'd engines or V8's that's besides the point). Well the first aftermarket company to make bullet proof con rods, pistons, and successful modified heads for the K20C will make a pretty penny. I see the K20C as the engine as the last petrol engine for Honda until it goes fully electric and Petrol Heads that's much sooner than you want to realize. Hey just think, won't it be fun learning a new craft on how to modify an electric car? If anyone wants to respond I'd love to hear it. I ask for your opinions not arguments b/c I think arguments are a waste of time. If I have been mistaken about my anything I've said let me know(well besides that EV's are the wave of the future)and show me the info so I can learn.
9:45 wow thanks for your wealth of knowledge on these engines. I've been interested in a K20 swap for my car and I didn't realize the engine was much smaller. TIL thanks man
when you said k20c is way better because of the flat curve powerband which is absolutely wrong. the reason why it need low end toque because the fact that its not n/a like the k20a. if the k20a were build with the same low end power it wouldnt be able to get as high as hp as it can get. so yes, its a completely different engine because of its characteristic.
Interesting, I have a buddy who’s out of FL and he use to work on Hondas. Hell he had a turbo K in an RSX and is working on an MR2 K. I was asking him about the new CTR K or the Accord K and he said pretty much what you’re saying. He did said if he ever sees one in the junkyard he will yank the whole setup because he adores the chassis look.
So put a turbo on a K20A or K20A2 drop the compression by changing the pistons or getting a thicker head gasket and you have a more reliable engine than the K20C and a fraction of the cost of buying a car with the K20C in it. Sounds logical right, or am I missing something? Honestly am I missing something in my logic, please correct me if I am wrong.
The K20A got 36 mpg in my RSX-S during the daily highway commute. If I drive very economically with my K20C (FL5) I can barely get 32 on a good week. Yeah, I know, these aren't meant for economy but just thought I'd add it in. If I drive the Type R like I really want to, it will do mid 20s.
Whoa the errors... K20A3 base model only does the fancy valve stepping on the Intake, it constantly works the both exhaust valves. K20A/A2/Z1 or the Type S/R engines, gets variable timing and lift on both sides. It's why the A3 will out pull the A2 until the A2 hits VTEC. It's why I prefer the A3 engine as well. A3: 141ft/lb 4000RPM A2: 142ft/lb 6000RPM Z1: 143ft/lb 6200RPM
I'd rather build an all motor k20 anyday and all day over taking the new CTR turbo motor which makes pathetic power when you consider the set up they provide. And I'll just add in my opinion any k series which doesnt have a real exhaust manifold and standard head opposed to that pathetic cylinder heads with the exhaust runners built into the head is not a true k series I don't care what anybody says. And yeah over 20psi running on the new CTR but with a turbo the size of a baseball which is the equivalent of prob 6-8 psi on a real turbo. And sorry bro but the k20's are not the ultra fun ultra high revving motors people love , you wanna talk about high revs without doin much work and even right outta the box and stock the B series vtec engines should be mentioned instead here with that statement , a stock b16 from 1989 revs to 8250 stock , a k20a2 or z3 revs to 7900-8000 tops with a much lower rev limiter than the bseries vtec motors , let's not forget that high revving here should only mean nothing but 9000+ rpms which a bone stock factory ITR b18c5 or jdm b18c is more than capable of and can rev even higher on stock valvetrain with bigger cams. And yes who in there right mind would ever compare the k20c to a k20a , and just cause the C is more power ful doesn't mean it's better by any means bro as you slap an eBay turbo kit on a k20a and it'll make more power than the C without even have been tuned yet dude seriously what the fuck are you even talking about. And I'll say again if it doesn't rev over 8,000 rpms it's not a true dohc vtec motor and if it doesn't rev up to or over 9000 rpms it's not a real type R motor , that was a trait that every type R motor up until the piece of shit k20c Ctr motors came into it's pathetic existance. Id be way more satisfied with a 9000 rpm all motor k20 or k24 making 220-230whp any day of the week. Hondas and turbos aren't meant to be unless your building a swapped car with a built motor , Honda's true history is of beating cars on the race track turbo charged cars I should add making twice the hp as the Honda rocking it's little 1600cc-2000cc high revving screamer that makes cars with twice the power look like sloths. Let's not forget hondas true lineage and there true history , their older chassis and motors set race track records , broke records , broke there own records over and over , and did this revving to 9-10,000 rpms with 4 individual TB's and compression ratio over 11:1 on pump gas if you have it tuned by somebody who knows what they are doing that's totally doable anyway. I don't know why any one in their right mind would ever pick a 350hp turbo motor over a 220-240whp 10,000 revving motor , thered never even be the slightest consideration for the turbo option coming from my mind , Go All Motor or go home, I don't think a whole lot higher of turbos than I do of nitrous bottles piped into small block Chevy's lmao sorry man but any tuner can tune a turbo car but not ever tuner can truelly tune an all motor build to it's fullest potential , that's the difference between being good and being fantastic at what you do.
Torque???? 🤔🤔🤔 what is that??? Lol we are used to these engines screaming for dear life, and we still cant get traction while torqueless so why would we need torque??? 😂😂😂 honda need to go back to the drawing board and innovate from the k20a/k24a and make something better than both of those, the k20c isn't worth it in my opinion, seeing as just bolting on a ebay turbo to a k20 or 24 will out perform the k20c in evey way, there's even a video of a na k20 hatch givin the sauce to a fk8 with no remorse so that alone screams k20 over k20c for me, other than that the biggest issue is PRICES, and aftermarket availability, honda should've just stuck to NA and leave the turbocharging to the enthusiast, plus they went D.I.
For those Honda cars that have a four sylender engine and have a cvt transmission especially the cvt transmission cause those need changing the fluid more often
This is the proper with most new turbo motors. Way to much load in the low rpm. Ecoboost,MZR and the k20c and most new gen motors make way to much tourque in the low end. So your cruising along in 6th and put your foot Down and load the motor up with all that sweet low end power and things get bending. Allot of it has to do with the baby turbo and bad tuning and bad driver habits.
Theres just something so satisfying about having to work a bit to rev out an engine to get the power out. Also, it's very satisfying hearing a turbo spool and being pushed back into the seat when it takes off. Wish I could afford both.
I get it k series is great but unfortunately Honda's body designs from 2002 till about 2015 sucked and why everyone wants the new motor in the old 1990 -2000 body styles I love honda but hell kia and hyundai had better body designs
I love my 8th gen civic si K20Z3 More than my RSX Type S K20A It just feels better and the seats are more comfortable, but i like the look of the rsx more.
Mhm. Or k20a swap an ek with power steering & ac for $9700, and than supercharge it for an additional $3000 to make 300whp/250wtq. $12700 and experience or $35000 and regret. I'll take experience. Thanks.
K20c is good, but its not a good engine when compared to the previous Honda type r engines. Has weak ass vtec, and need 20 pounds of boost to make only 100hp more.
One thing i know all this talk about the different mechanics of different engines is all good and well and yes most do what they do well but what is never mentioned what is needed to make it all happen is the ecu, modding engines to the point of hp worth having requires ecu mods if not total replacement and that's when you need deep pockets. Tuning modern engines is a bottomless pit, personally old school price, ease of maintenance, and no uni degree required so it doesn't go BANG on start up. Feel free to change my mind.
Awesome video.thanks.im bias but k20a with turbo way better than k20c.love my k20a in my base model 97ek civic.na and stock it's as quick if not quicker than a fk8
It's all about the application. With small bore machines, you have to not only know how you want to use the car, but understand where you want to be a year or two down the road, when you've saved up more money and can make the car a full race vehicle or just a stoplight sleeper with power to terrorize the neighborhood with. The two applications might seem similar, but you couldn't be more wrong.
ONLY THING I DON'T LIKE ABOUT THE K'S IS THE HANDFUL OF PLASTIC THINGS THAT ONCE WERE METAL IN THE B-SERIES H-SERIES F-SERIES EVEN D-SERIES I MISS THAT ABOUT THE NEW ENGINE AS A WHOLE
K 20 Z 1 Running 28 lbs boost, is all you need, that direct injection does not cut it, way too much complication, size too big. Much harder Mod, and not sure if it can take it. Sleeve a K 20 (A) (A2) (Z) etc, Forged internals, crank up the boost, and you have Torque and HP.
@@sketchypigeon1070 I disagree somewhat. No VTEC on the intake cams is seriously disappointing. Even Like Wilson from 4Piston said it. This is seems to have been engineered with a disregard for tuners. And if you follow the Hasport k20c1 videos were the they try to fit the new engine into older chassis, you will find it almost impossible to fit in. Why?
Touche! My point was simply If there is going to be a comparison on the k20c and "k20A" let's hear it,but this comparison was between the k20c and k20A2 and A3 not the "A"
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We need a K20C comparison to the N/A K20C2.
The exhaust manifold integrated to the cylinder head is very bad for tuning for high rpm and also transfers more heat to the cylinder head, one piece is saved and the engine warms up before the rest is all bad. The engines are currently basically garbage.
K20A is the better one for now. Wish you would have added how horrible the Honda, paddle shifted CVT is. Under 10K worth of performance driving, the pulley's scored up fast. CVT'S are not performance transmissions.
They should have never put paddle shifters on it. All shifting on a CVT is simulated or just a held position on the pulley's.
@@christophergarrido2802 i was about to post about that ! Some people tell it’s doesn’t have potential the k20c2 but i think and believe it does !
After watching 3 of youre vids in a row, I've learned that Japanese engine's, built in the 90's, were fucking awesome and ahead of their time.
The b16 was ahead of its time. That same engine was introduced from 88-89 to 2000.
bug productions I knew that in the early 90,s dude, Honda always lead the way putting racing engines in the road at affordable prices for the public domain
@@ClearWater7.62 #facts
Arthur Wall 😃 👌
The J was ahead of its game now it’s in the nsx lol a accord tl rl cl odd pilot Ridgeline and my hatchbacks engine the v6 ftw
They should have never called the new engine a K series. It’s a completely different design, like WTF, Honda? What are you guys smoking over there?
You mean like the f22b (accord), the f20b (euroR) and the f20c (s2k)?
@@joeybaker7740 Or the c27a and the c30, c32, c35
They couldnt match the competitors hp and emissions so they went turbo
@@joeybaker7740 Isn't the Euro R the H22A?
Not the first time they've done that B20A vs the entire rest of the B-series platform. Or the DOHC "D" Series, which share very little with the rest of the line.
There’s a Honda specialist who’s worked on K20as for years... they advise that with a rebore, uprated internals etc it will be good for 1000 BHP
so basically like a lot of engines then
Do d16z6 next. That's the engine that I am currently building to handle 400+ HP. People don't give the single cam enough credit when it's actually a cost effective route.
I agree. Good luck with your build. D16s are great engines.
Watchu talkin bout... the single cams have been gettin clout for the last decade now man. Goto any honda specific show an ull see more D or F series single cam builds than u will B or H's nowadays.
if you want to build an unpopular Honda do an R series or the k20c2 (the non turbo ugly duckling)
R18a will kick its butt any day! In mpg :P
As long as you keep the torque low on the k20a k20a2 you can push 400bhp on a stock engine and still be reliable the con rods are the weak point on the k20a
Nah gearbox is the weak link in a k20a
Although the k20a2 that was used in the type s Rsx was the same engine used in the ep3 type r civic. It's not the same as the k20A used in the itr,the a has a higher redline,higher compression and 20 more hp
K20a from itr and ctr are the same only thing that changes is the exhaust and headers
EP3 did not have k20a2. It had 160hp base RSX motor. K20a3 I believe
The JDM EP3 Type R used the same K20A as the DC5 Integra Type R. The UKDM EP3 Type R used the same K20A2 that’s in the pre facelift RSX Type S. The US EP3 had a K20A3 which only made 160hp
kdavid123186able he said ep3 type r which did have the k20a2 and the usdm version only got 160hp
@@ogspmex9926 u stoopid
K20A with forced induction >K20c anyday of the week.K20c has vtec only on exhaust cam and it has the same problem like the 9gen civic si K24Z7 and that is the integrated exhaust manifold in the head stock vs stock both are in different league but if talk about modified then K20A is simply a more performance oriented engine and the cylinder head of the K20A flows way better as compared to the K20c
It doesn't flow as well because of the direct injection. This swirls the air giving it more grunt down low and a cleaner burning fuel mix. Hondata ported a k20c head and it flowed just as well as older k series, but it kills the low end torque.
K20c1 is for the guy who wants a turbo Honda, but don't want to deal with the headache doing it yourself causes.
@@snakeballs8965 the exhaust maniflold is also integrated in the cylinder head it can never flow as good as a K20A even if ported.same is the problem with the 9gen civc si k24z7
bottom line...for the price you pay for the k20c you could just spend same amount of money on k20a or even k24v and get better results.
you are wrong there look more into the k20c i havea k20c2 motor and it would cost me more to get a k24a/k20a to the same power with the stock k20c1 motor you can get it to 450hp safely with same internals k20/k24 you have to change everthing out plus sleeve it . k20c1 you dont need to sleeve it also the k20c4 already comes sleeved i for my k20c2 for free reason i am trying to build it up and it only has 17k miles on it people like you talk but dont know cars good luck
@@beargang8853 dude do you have a base Civic LX? Those are the only cars i know of with the K20C2 and I completely agree with you. People sleep on it because it only makes 158hp stock, but it's just a type R engine without the head, turbo, or internals. I like the engine so much more than the shitty 1.5t they've been putting in everything.
@@beargang8853 Wrong, have you looked up what the older k20/24s can handle? it shits out 450 daily on a unopened engine.
@@beargang8853 you are wrong.the k20/k24 can easy handle 500 hp. People are boosting even 600 hp stock ones just changing head bolts.
@Arthur Wall all that torque breaking rods or spinning tyres coz its a FWD. By the way k24 makes torque on boost. Mine is making 400 lb and 511 hp on 15 psi.stock k24a2.
A k20 will make near 350 lb torque on 15 psi depending upon the turbo size.but still its enough.and wow that 8600 rev limits ..
K20a: rev happy
K20c: low growning sound
I liked this video it was very educational between the 2 engines.
Make a vid about the NA K20C2!!
I have had many civics in my life but I love my FK8. However I miss my 99 EM1 with a B16B. The K20C is more practical because of low torque but I do miss that high rev sound of the old Bseries. I liked my 13 FB6 K24 flet like a good balance.
just ride a motorcycle. Even higher redline and the sound is insane
No offense but why would you spend the money for a B16B to swap into an EM1 that already had a B16A* that you could just buy cams and springs for to equal the power?
Thank you,I'll be following
Are the mounts in the same spots? Can you swap a k20c into car that has a k20a?
I’ve beeen trying to figure this out for a minute. I have a k20c I’m putting into a Mini Cooper. I want to know if I can use a subframe swap kit for a k20a
We see now k20 stock block with only springs and retainers boosted holding 700+ no problems, my neighbor has one 625 hp beating it now for a year and 2 months. K20A the perfect engine so far honda has built.
Carlos Carlitos naw cuhz, My F20 is best act like you kno pimp
I have civic FD 2007, wat do u think the best k20A or k20c? Who is faster? Ty sir
What degree vtc gear does the k20a use????
Make a video about the new turbo 1.5l
What is cfm?
If i knew which is better i wouldnt have spent time watching your video on it ;)
K20A is a much better engine!
Naser bay
k20a all day.
K20C2!!!! 2.0 N/A!!
k20c is a far superior engine, but we are going to have to wait until the aftermarket section expands.
that said the engine im interested in is the one used in the 130n it makes even more torque than the k20c for its power range.
I disagree.
EG6 K24a
Hmm.. it would be nice to get credit for my film.
Lucrative Stance Oh my bad. I started adding credits at the top right of my videos but that layer must’ve gotten disabled before exporting! I never noticed. Super sorry about that man.
I added it to the description. Again, very sorry about that. My most recent videos have credits at the top right of the clip, I messed up on this one.
Awsome just want to make sure 👍🏾
Turbo k20A
why cant ''normal people '' buy the k20c1 and drop it in their s2000s or civics ? they seem to only sell the crate engine for track use , why? is there any loopholes around this to bring this engine to the street ?
cause im sure many people like me watching this videos CAN AFFORD to spend 6G on the Motor , but CANT AFFORD to spend 40G on a new CIVIC TYPE R
If you hunt enough on google you can find them. But it's such a complex design and needs so much modification that at the end of it you've sank so much into it that you'd be better off buying a used low mileage type r. It's not like the bare bones 4 cylinder engines in the past that you could swap motor mounts, an ecu, and a wiring harness and you'd be set.
I know v8 guys..like fuck that's how they beat us vtec
1.6t dig engine nissan do a video
2jz : cough*
First
Ram Rajkumar
you win a cookie
Heres a difference, I CANT AFFORD A HONDA CIVIC TYPE R ENGINE.
@James Smith no, what i meant was the k20c shit
you can buy a k20c2 that is 500-600$ on ebay low miles a its the same block and put change the Internals. but if you are the type of person who just does a swap and dosnt build their motor whats the point of the swap
BearGang you ain't getting a low mileage engine k series that cheap k20a3 maybe but you need all the stuff to swap engine into car is going to be a couple thousand dollars. You will never find the 1000 $ fabled swap, sure some might have but they knew the person or it was a friend. You would be better of getting forged rods pistons and install in motor then eBay turbo it. You will still be cheaper than k series swap. With Honda's you can put forged rods and pistons in motor while it sits in the car
BearGang have you seen the turbo d16y7 or d16y8 turbocharged videos on UA-cam check it out you will change your mind on swapping
@@spankthemonkey3437 i have seen it. it doenst change my mind at all
Honda boys never shut up about the K20, but with good reason
How about K24 :P
Moral of the story is.. boost your k20a. Or B series.... Or H series
MOAR BOOST
Or d series
Or F Series
Moral of the story ebay turbo kit makes any honda a 2018 type r
Or J series
Has any one noticed how much the k20c engine cover looks like a honda generator. Reminds me of an ex2000. Lol
cos it generates so much powa HAHAHA
I’ll say a K20A even though I am a big fan of B18C
Agreed. Tbh, Im more of a B series fan myself. Though the K is definitely the superior motor, I'd rather daily a B16/17/18 with bolt ons because to me they sound better.
@@J3Fox00 I'm with this statement even though my car is a k😂
@John Bowden that's great man. Yea I love my TSX but honestly who doesn't love the classic appeal of a good B
Not me that's for sure, lol. To me it's just a better driving experience, the B just sounds more raw than the K and it sort of gives me a nostalgic feeling. Like I'm in the early 2000s during the tuner craze.
@@J3Fox00 my H22 swap with JDM Fujitsubo header and Greddy exhaust sounds way more splattery and backfirey than my RSX type s with nvidia exhaust. RSX handles better, but that exhaust sound is priceless
Us honda guys arent use to torque so just give us time
😆
robert hildebrand funny dude 👶
I have a k24a with a k20a head.
The first version was all stock internals N/A. Dyno 212 hp at the tires.
2nd and current set up with a Garrett t3, 1050cc injectors, running low boost (11psi)on stock internals 404 hp at the tires.
Next version will get rods, pistons and cams with 20psi. Hoping for 600 hp.
I'll stick with the A series.
we are easily getting 600whp+ on stock K20C in our Type Rs now. Look it up. With upgraded turbo of course. We even have drop in turbos putting out 600whp.
@@RetrOGz you also cost forty grand more
K20c is not Honda , k20c was designed and developed in Honda America not the original Honda japan! I was a fan of Honda but no longer because Honda moved from being a Japanese to Americanised .
K24A2 for the win.
K20Z3 for my win
Best engine for me ! More tq , great top end , k24a2 ftw
J35’s on top
I am running an EP3 type r With 409 hp And it is coping with the power absolutely fine just like you said I prefer the older K 20A as I love to hear these engines scream 😱
whats not to love about the k series? High flowing head from factory, holds 400whp just fine on an unopened motor, goes quick in NA or turbocharged applications.
Is your engine still running?
@@mrniceguy7168with proper tuning on a k20, upto 500hp, even boosted, its lifetime won't be decreased from stock. Bad tuning and it's done in the first dyno run. You have to make absolutely insane power to start worrying about actually bending rods or something due to too much torque. It's almost always detonation that kills things, which tuning. Of course more power means more cylinder pressure means more chance of det. Take det out of the equation and I'd bet a k20 could do 800hp and last as long as stock..but unfortunately det is always part of the equation.
@@forbiddenera are there any examples of high mileage high horsepower K engines? I’m dubious that a high horsepower K engine can go over 200k miles like most other Honda engines can easily do
@@mrniceguy7168 I'm sure there is lots. K is better than B, and I've had several B's run for ages at 350hp which were all engines with at least 250,000km on them and the only time one has died was from detonation
K20C doesnt sound as nice yeah, but I appreciate that Honda is putting in a car as good as the FK8
hopefully they shove a K20C4 or something detuned in the 11th gen Si haha
The K20C guys will soon get to share some of the same problems as us ford ecoboost guys have. The integrated manifold prevents us from going over 600hp and creates a ton of backpressure on the exhaust side. Its really a shame because the closed deck ecboost blocks are pretty stout but we cant do shit about the head. If i was building a honda i would definitely go with the k24 or k20a
The c2 is naturally aspirated
The VTEC is on the exhaust side to aid with getting exhaust gasses out
@A4ANT its still a big restriction, thats why the best honda engine is still the k24a2 from the tlx/tsx.
Three years after that comment, it turns out to be complete nonsense
@jachpriboy8989 retarded honda fanboi, show me a past 600whp civic type r using the k20c? Stoo being a fanboi and accept the fact kid, thats why people go for the k20's without the integrated manifold. I cant stand wanna be honda fantards like you.2
If I was a betting man, Id skip the new CTR and buy a Civic Sport and drop a turbo K20A. If someone isnt making mounting hardware for this retrofit, they should and keep me in mind for royalties...
So I'm an Evo 9 guy, usually bash on some of the shittier Hondas but man do I love the K20A and respect K20A turbo charged, those engines are great.
Evos are great when they aren't broke.
How many axles have you blown thru?
@@smokepeddler I'm on stock axles tranny, transfer, diff, turbo and internals and I'm pushing 420whp. As long as you slip the clutch instead of dumping it you won't break until after 550-600whp.
The K20C1 is good, but I still prefer the K20A from FD2R
k20c can handle alot more hp than the K20a stock the k20c4 is the same as the k20c2 but they beefed up internals even has cast iron sleeves but only offer in japan i have a k20c2 motor and trann i plan on swaping in my 1997 Prelude already have a fab guy ready to help me get it in there than once it fits ill clean up the car more and mostly buy a 2nd motor to beef up while. i want to send it to 4pison to beef up the 2nd motor i used to want to have k24 but than when i started doing my reserach k20c is way better
The k20c is not better than the k20a. Honda gimmped it. Please explain how you figure it is.
*with boost
JDM FD2 Type R had the last and best K20a motor of them all
It gets better, look up the mugen type rr. They made it more powerful.
The best looking Civic that Honda used the K20A in was the EP3 Type-R, I really dislike the look of the Civic these days.
Jdm dc5 217hp is the bomb.lol only better is the fd2 k20a only because rrc mani
Is it much different than the K20A in the JDM DC5 Type-R?
@@TheDalitis8 yes, the fd2r motor is about 5hp more
I choose the K20C1 4my 2008 Honda Element SC daily driver because of the low end torque. I plan the elimination of steering hydraulics by upgrading 2a full EPS steering rack. My only concerns now are the adaptation of the unit as a direct bolt in, i.e. engine mounts, AC compressor, alternator &computer. I'm not worried about intercooler piping, turbo lubrication or cooling.
Any help here?
I don’t like this hotwheels looking car. Bring back Integra!
Ik its so ugly💯
azrul nizam you should see the rally car they made out new civic type r
Bottom line, one engine was designed for a turbo and the other one was not. In my opinion, leave the K20C stock and enjoy it as it is. According to this guy, try to tune the type R too much and you'll bend the rods. At the end of the day, it's not worth it. Enjoy the car in its stock form and you'll get easily 200 to 300,000 mi with proper maintenance.
You know, "leave it alone" is not what tuners do, so the k20c will be the new exploding engine of car show exist burn outs.
@@rolandocrisostomo2003 lol Any engine can be tuned....all it takes is MONEY.
K20a2/z1/z3 can survive 500whp daily driven and be fine. The k20c can not. Just saying. The k20c was ment to be a track midrange car while the k20a/z are made to be a all around engine.
Does anyone remember The Pontiac GTP 3.6L Supercharged V6 from back in the day? It was really easy to get power out of but Chevy/Grand Am of course fucked it up by making its transmission only able to hold just barely more power than what it made before it turned into a grenade. Why would Chevy/Grand Am do something like that to The Grand Am GTP if they knew how easy it was to modify and make more power? Okay so bare with me...Why would Honda design a turbo engine that couldn't stand at least 100-200 more torque knowing that turbo engines(Honda or otherwise)are probably the most modified cars in the entire world besides V8's? (I'm not getting into that discussion what's modified more turbo'd engines or V8's that's besides the point). Well the first aftermarket company to make bullet proof con rods, pistons, and successful modified heads for the K20C will make a pretty penny. I see the K20C as the engine as the last petrol engine for Honda until it goes fully electric and Petrol Heads that's much sooner than you want to realize. Hey just think, won't it be fun learning a new craft on how to modify an electric car?
If anyone wants to respond I'd love to hear it. I ask for your opinions not arguments b/c I think arguments are a waste of time. If I have been mistaken about my anything I've said let me know(well besides that EV's are the wave of the future)and show me the info so I can learn.
9:45 wow thanks for your wealth of knowledge on these engines. I've been interested in a K20 swap for my car and I didn't realize the engine was much smaller. TIL thanks man
when you said k20c is way better because of the flat curve powerband which is absolutely wrong. the reason why it need low end toque because the fact that its not n/a like the k20a. if the k20a were build with the same low end power it wouldnt be able to get as high as hp as it can get. so yes, its a completely different engine because of its characteristic.
I'll go for k24 with k20 head turbo change ,my opinion.
Interesting, I have a buddy who’s out of FL and he use to work on Hondas. Hell he had a turbo K in an RSX and is working on an MR2 K. I was asking him about the new CTR K or the Accord K and he said pretty much what you’re saying. He did said if he ever sees one in the junkyard he will yank the whole setup because he adores the chassis look.
So put a turbo on a K20A or K20A2 drop the compression by changing the pistons or getting a thicker head gasket and you have a more reliable engine than the K20C and a fraction of the cost of buying a car with the K20C in it. Sounds logical right, or am I missing something? Honestly am I missing something in my logic, please correct me if I am wrong.
this torque figures are a waste in a fwd car. This numbers are for awd or rwd cars. But it feels so ggreeaattttt!!!!
K24 in my opinion the better engine, bored to a 2.7L, 12.5 compression on pump gas, NA of course
The K20A got 36 mpg in my RSX-S during the daily highway commute. If I drive very economically with my K20C (FL5) I can barely get 32 on a good week. Yeah, I know, these aren't meant for economy but just thought I'd add it in. If I drive the Type R like I really want to, it will do mid 20s.
And Gran Turismo 7 doesn't even have that since PlayStation 3. They hace the c engine but not the A and some still don't get it
Whoa the errors... K20A3 base model only does the fancy valve stepping on the Intake, it constantly works the both exhaust valves. K20A/A2/Z1 or the Type S/R engines, gets variable timing and lift on both sides. It's why the A3 will out pull the A2 until the A2 hits VTEC. It's why I prefer the A3 engine as well.
A3: 141ft/lb 4000RPM
A2: 142ft/lb 6000RPM
Z1: 143ft/lb 6200RPM
I'd rather build an all motor k20 anyday and all day over taking the new CTR turbo motor which makes pathetic power when you consider the set up they provide. And I'll just add in my opinion any k series which doesnt have a real exhaust manifold and standard head opposed to that pathetic cylinder heads with the exhaust runners built into the head is not a true k series I don't care what anybody says. And yeah over 20psi running on the new CTR but with a turbo the size of a baseball which is the equivalent of prob 6-8 psi on a real turbo. And sorry bro but the k20's are not the ultra fun ultra high revving motors people love , you wanna talk about high revs without doin much work and even right outta the box and stock the B series vtec engines should be mentioned instead here with that statement , a stock b16 from 1989 revs to 8250 stock , a k20a2 or z3 revs to 7900-8000 tops with a much lower rev limiter than the bseries vtec motors , let's not forget that high revving here should only mean nothing but 9000+ rpms which a bone stock factory ITR b18c5 or jdm b18c is more than capable of and can rev even higher on stock valvetrain with bigger cams. And yes who in there right mind would ever compare the k20c to a k20a , and just cause the C is more power ful doesn't mean it's better by any means bro as you slap an eBay turbo kit on a k20a and it'll make more power than the C without even have been tuned yet dude seriously what the fuck are you even talking about. And I'll say again if it doesn't rev over 8,000 rpms it's not a true dohc vtec motor and if it doesn't rev up to or over 9000 rpms it's not a real type R motor , that was a trait that every type R motor up until the piece of shit k20c Ctr motors came into it's pathetic existance. Id be way more satisfied with a 9000 rpm all motor k20 or k24 making 220-230whp any day of the week. Hondas and turbos aren't meant to be unless your building a swapped car with a built motor , Honda's true history is of beating cars on the race track turbo charged cars I should add making twice the hp as the Honda rocking it's little 1600cc-2000cc high revving screamer that makes cars with twice the power look like sloths. Let's not forget hondas true lineage and there true history , their older chassis and motors set race track records , broke records , broke there own records over and over , and did this revving to 9-10,000 rpms with 4 individual TB's and compression ratio over 11:1 on pump gas if you have it tuned by somebody who knows what they are doing that's totally doable anyway. I don't know why any one in their right mind would ever pick a 350hp turbo motor over a 220-240whp 10,000 revving motor , thered never even be the slightest consideration for the turbo option coming from my mind , Go All Motor or go home, I don't think a whole lot higher of turbos than I do of nitrous bottles piped into small block Chevy's lmao sorry man but any tuner can tune a turbo car but not ever tuner can truelly tune an all motor build to it's fullest potential , that's the difference between being good and being fantastic at what you do.
Torque???? 🤔🤔🤔 what is that??? Lol we are used to these engines screaming for dear life, and we still cant get traction while torqueless so why would we need torque??? 😂😂😂 honda need to go back to the drawing board and innovate from the k20a/k24a and make something better than both of those, the k20c isn't worth it in my opinion, seeing as just bolting on a ebay turbo to a k20 or 24 will out perform the k20c in evey way, there's even a video of a na k20 hatch givin the sauce to a fk8 with no remorse so that alone screams k20 over k20c for me, other than that the biggest issue is PRICES, and aftermarket availability, honda should've just stuck to NA and leave the turbocharging to the enthusiast, plus they went D.I.
For those Honda cars that have a four sylender engine and have a cvt transmission especially the cvt transmission cause those need changing the fluid more often
This is the proper with most new turbo motors. Way to much load in the low rpm.
Ecoboost,MZR and the k20c and most new gen motors make way to much tourque in the low end.
So your cruising along in 6th and put your foot Down and load the motor up with all that sweet low end power and things get bending.
Allot of it has to do with the baby turbo and bad tuning and bad driver habits.
Basically the k20a is a great N/A powerhouse and k20c is a built turbo engine made for boosting, right?
Theres just something so satisfying about having to work a bit to rev out an engine to get the power out. Also, it's very satisfying hearing a turbo spool and being pushed back into the seat when it takes off. Wish I could afford both.
I get it k series is great but unfortunately Honda's body designs from 2002 till about 2015 sucked and why everyone wants the new motor in the old 1990 -2000 body styles
I love honda but hell kia and hyundai had better body designs
I love my 8th gen civic si K20Z3
More than my RSX Type S K20A
It just feels better and the seats are more comfortable, but i like the look of the rsx more.
the 10th gen civic are great i had one for a short time till someon rear eneded me
@Bryce Czirr thats odd i fill the 4 door 8th gen is ugly the 10th gen is sexy 4 door the 2 door 8 gen is really nice though
Le. Farquad AGREED
K20A Rspec is better
6500-7000 shift points are lame, though. Why not turbocharge AND rev high? Why does nothing OEM offer that?
HDR Engine Development my guess is that emission regulations have made it difficult for manufacturers and customers to reach that sweet spot
Cylinder pressure would become to high and the longevity and reliable of the engine would decline.
high revving turbo engines aren't very reliable and yeah emissions legislation comes into play
Mhm. Or k20a swap an ek with power steering & ac for $9700, and than supercharge it for an additional $3000 to make 300whp/250wtq. $12700 and experience or $35000 and regret. I'll take experience. Thanks.
Type R is the more daily driveable car for me and does everything i need it for it do factory
to each their own
K20c is good, but its not a good engine when compared to the previous Honda type r engines. Has weak ass vtec, and need 20 pounds of boost to make only 100hp more.
One thing i know all this talk about the different mechanics of different engines is
all good and well and yes most do what they do well but what is never mentioned
what is needed to make it all happen is the ecu, modding engines to the point of hp
worth having requires ecu mods if not total replacement and that's when you need deep
pockets. Tuning modern engines is a bottomless pit, personally old school price, ease of maintenance, and no uni degree required so it doesn't go BANG on start up.
Feel free to change my mind.
Awesome video.thanks.im bias but k20a with turbo way better than k20c.love my k20a in my base model 97ek civic.na and stock it's as quick if not quicker than a fk8
Yea...i dont think i have the money for either one. Im just gonna turbo my R18 and slap some type R body parts on my FD
generally the honda's progress = F1's progress
Does HDP Honda offer a crate K24 race engine? I'm actually going to look that one up so don't reply if you read that.
I have a k20c2 im planing to put in my Honda Prelude than once i get it in there ill be buying a 2nd lude and get the k20c1 or c4
Please do another video on comparison of the k24a and the k24w/k24v7 earth dreams motor that's found in the newer ilx and accords.
It's all about the application. With small bore machines, you have to not only know how you want to use the car, but understand where you want to be a year or two down the road, when you've saved up more money and can make the car a full race vehicle or just a stoplight sleeper with power to terrorize the neighborhood with. The two applications might seem similar, but you couldn't be more wrong.
Looks like they put the exhaust out front again but without turning the whole engine like b..probably means it spins like a b then?
ONLY THING I DON'T LIKE ABOUT THE K'S IS THE HANDFUL OF PLASTIC THINGS THAT ONCE WERE METAL IN THE B-SERIES H-SERIES F-SERIES EVEN D-SERIES I MISS THAT ABOUT THE NEW ENGINE AS A WHOLE
Or. Or. Orrrrr you could turbo a k20a and rev out like all Honda people want… AND get the torque.
K 20 Z 1 Running 28 lbs boost, is all you need, that direct injection does not cut it, way too much complication, size too big. Much harder Mod, and not sure if it can take it. Sleeve a K 20 (A) (A2) (Z) etc, Forged internals, crank up the boost, and you have Torque and HP.
I want to swap a k20a in my fk8
It's a downgrade then
Sketchy Pigeon it will be fun
cant wait until FC3s are cheap so we can K24 swap them
@@sketchypigeon1070 I disagree somewhat. No VTEC on the intake cams is seriously disappointing. Even Like Wilson from 4Piston said it. This is seems to have been engineered with a disregard for tuners. And if you follow the Hasport k20c1 videos were the they try to fit the new engine into older chassis, you will find it almost impossible to fit in. Why?
I wanna try getting my hands on a k20c and drop it in my ep3 anything is possable right
Its a crate engine. Totaly possible.
Just K24 and boost it. Way less fuckin' around and way less money.
@@RevoltingSnakeman99 or just boost the k20a2, less torque = more grip + cheaper
There are many types of K20A, but the fastest one is
Only k20a (Rspec)
K20A
I would take k20A engine minor tune will be ahead of time vs every1 else.then they sound better.
The k20A came in the jdm dc5 type r only. The Rsx had the k20a2 and the si had the k20a3.
Ep3 type r is k20A2
Only FD2R came in K20A
@@eddiedick9886 In the UK the EP3 has the A2. In Japan, its the high compression K20A.
Touche! My point was simply If there is going to be a comparison on the k20c and "k20A" let's hear it,but this comparison was between the k20c and k20A2 and A3 not the "A"
JDM CL7 Euro R aswell
K20a is better in every way. Great video by the way!
K20a is better. And PFI Brent has tuned a stock k20a bottom end on boost to make 500hp to the wheels.
Facepalm
Why couldn't they just turbo a k20a or at least a engine that really has vtec
300 hp with 20lbs of boost.?
That just doesn't add up.
20 lbs of boost on a k20a will yield over 500hp.
Flow rate and much higher rpm range