If you control an effect like Lich's Mastery with Transcendence and 20+ life, the game is a draw unless someone destroys one of them. Transcendence will trigger, attempt to make you lose the game, fail to do so and then trigger again because its criteria is still met
This actually almost happened to me with Immortal Coil, then for a while I could threaten with looping the game if I had exactly two cards in my graveyard
Lichs Mastery is my fav card, i was so excited when i saw the new version from duskmorn! Final fortune and isocron scepter with LM takes inf turns. Iso final fortune can win with kenrith.
@@sirtoastytoes884 idk if that’s how transcendence works tho bc it specifies that you still lose the life and therefore must exile permanents you control. Therefore you’d need to combine it with a squirrel oak and Heliod
@Elemunzi they're not talking about losing life, they're talking about the second line of text on transcendence that makes you lose at 20 or more life, while lich's mastery states that you can't lose the game. Transcendence will constantly attempt to trigger and lose you the game and get stopped by mastery then attempt to trigger again etc. and end the game in a draw if no one removes it
@@swolegolisopod7340 I understand the first two parts - I was curious about the second because you’d still need to deal with exile triggers whenever you take damage
I thought the last deck was great for friend hate but this one might be better. Keep them coming! People still want to play with me and that has to change!
Keep in mind when the player you gave Archfiend of the Dross leaves the game, the control effect from Harmless Offering/Donate ends and it returns to you so you will also lose the game when it attempts to remove another oil counter on your upkeep and has none
Regarding Pact of the Titan: "Djinn Illuminatus" gives your spells replicate equal to their mana cost, which is 0 in this case. Add in anything that grants haste and you can just win on the spot for free. There is also Goblin Bombardment and other ways to sacrifice creature to ping, so you can also win without haste. So, Pact of the Titan is bad, but it can be a game winning combo spell.
I was running Pact of the Titan + Djinn Illuminatus + Pandemonium as a janky Standard deck back when I first picked the game up. I'll always have a soft spot for Pact of the Titan.
@@BrootalMetalBanjo Replicate copies spells but does not cast copies, so even if you make 100 pacts, each opponent only makes 1. (EDIT: I didn't realize that Magecraft triggered specifically off of copies of spells, holy crap.)
I run a very similar deck, but in Mardu. The main wincon is Repay in Kind, which sets all players to the lowest life total among them. So if I can go down to 0 without losing, I can take everyone else down to 0, and they likely don't have these cards to protect them. Also fun fact about Chance for Glory: The indestructible is just a permanent effect. If you somehow don't lose the game, you now have permanently indestructible creatures.
I rewatched your win con and lose con videos recently and it gave me the idea that you could run Near Death Experience in this deck. With so many effects preventing you from losing and your commander giving you more control over your life total, it seems a lot more feasible to hit that magic number. The real power would be in combining it with an effect that sets your life to 1 when you would lose (which I see you only have one of in this version), triggering that with one of your many lose cons, and then using an extra turn card to start your next turn immediately and instantly win the game.
So, it's a minor thing, but if you want a second copy of mutavault you can swap all your basics to snow basics and play 'Faceless Haven' as another creature land that is an angel. Given it's a snow land, you only need two others, sources, and I can see sneaking is a single forest and X(prob black) snow duel for your land tutors.
If you have Silverquill Lecturer out when you cast Phage, you can give the Phage Demonstrate to force an opponent to cast a copy of it. Or if you can find ways to cast lose-conditions from elsewhere than your hand, The Twelfth Doctor can Demonstrate them. Replication Technique can copy lose-conditions you already control - two copies for yourself, and one more for an opponent. =)
Note that the copy of Phage you create with Demonstrate is not one you cast from your hand, so this is only effective against the LAST opponent in the game. Other losecons you can probably copy more safely.
Another great donation card is Blim, Comedic genius. He is a four mana 4/3 flyer with Whenever Blim, Comedic Genius deals combat damage to a player, that player gains control of target permanent you control. Then each player loses life and discards cards equal to the number of permanents they control but don't own. With how many ‘gifts’ in this deck, the reoccurring donations while also being a target for Kenrith would make him perfect
Ran this deck. Got a hive mind out because the table didn't counter it and one attempted to naturalize it, and did pact of negation in response. Table goes apeshit. I shit you not, I have never seen a table so utterly dedicated to keeping everyone alive and ensuring I died for it. Angel ints from two people, one couldn't make it and dies, comes to my turn on 4 health, Pact of the Titan on my turn at the start of upkeep, then End the turn with split second, goes back around again with a bonus 'lose the game on endstep for everyone else. Utter rage. Thank you for this gem of a deck, I love you!
transcendance dosen't work with lich's mastery. ruling: If your life total is 20 or more and you control an effect that states "you can't lose the game", then an infinite loop is formed. If neither player wants to end the loop by removing one of these two cards from the battlefield, the game ends in a draw.
Yea, I run it in my Mardu deck that has a very similar theme, and I have nearly drawn games with it. I still run it since it says "you can't lose the game", but I would rather have literally any other card with that line of text, and only play it if I need to.
it ain’t a dave build unless there’s $500-$1000 in support “good stuff” cards 😂 Fantastic build dave, love the theme, and I might actually build this instead of the mono-black Phage deck I had planned. Great work!
Still very much love the unique approach to win conditions, or lose conditions in this case. :D Cool to see my Sudden Spoiling suggestion being utilized!
With the Archfiend of the Dross, use Exchange of Words. Swap rules of 2 cards, choose one of their creatures. It is in play so it has no oil counters. So start of their upkeep insta loss.
I have a sumular deck, winc9n is hive mind and anything that then casts "you loose the game" and I have a card "you can't loose the game" Cam get nutty when you cast 4 or 5 turns in a row with no consequences. Even worse if you play a pact at instant speed on end step of a player and the one after isn't I that color. Go-Shintai of Life’s Origin is the commander to being back hive if it's destroyed or milled. The sleeves are that guy on a bike meme, where he puts a stick in his wheel and crashes.
idk if you're aware of it already but I found a rather unique combo with one of the extra turns, Tree of Perdition, and Stunning Reversal (as your way of dealing with the lose con specifically, there can't be any other active at the time). First turn you have this set up, you cast the extra turn, then use Tree of Perdition to save your high life total, replacing it with 13. Then on the extra turn, do whatever, but make sure you cast Stunning Reversal at the end, then when you end the turn, your current HP goes to one, and you draw seven cards, and don't lose the game. Then after that resolves, you ask if there is any response while you are at one HP, just to make sure you get your stack priority as you tap Tree of Perdition again, swapping your 1 hp with whatever the total was before you started this combo. So this gives you an extra turn, 7 drawn cards, no loss in your life total, and the ability to ping an enemy to one instantly next turn, assuming Tree of Perdition survives to that point. Bonus if the specific extra turn was Chance for Glory as then your Tree of Perdition is permanently indestructible, preserving that free ping to 1 hp. Pull that off and using one red on Kenrith to get trample will act as an instant kill for one player, assuming they don't have enough blockers to reduce the damage by a full 5.
I've had a similar deck like this built around Obeka for a few months now and really enjoyed getting it to function and win, because the payoff is both unexpected and satisfying. This has given me some ideas that work with that.
Nice deck, such a funny concept! It may be mana expensive, but maybe some card that let take control of your opponent turn could be used to be forced into meeting whichever requirement is needed to lose the game (Like not paying for the pact, when they could). Not sure if it would be worth it tho.
One possible card to add to combo with "Nine Lives" is "Solemnity" which is an enchantment that says, "Players can't get counters and Counters can’t be put on artifacts, creatures, enchantments, or lands." So with these two cards together it makes it so that "Nine Lives" can't put any counters onto itself and thus it prevents all damage done to you. It is not as strong as the cards that say, "you can't lose the game," but sometimes just preventing all damage ever can be enough for some decks to just be shut out from winning. That being said, I can totally understand NOT putting "Solemnity" in the deck. While I was watching, as you pointed out some cards and mentioned a 2nd card along with them as a combo card to go with 'em, when you finally got to "Nine Lives" it seemed like an obvious 2nd card to mention, but when it didn't get brought up I was definitely confused at first. But after thinking about it for a little bit, "Solemnity" could actually be such a non-bo with certain parts of the rest of the deck. First few non-bos that come to mind being Kenrith himself, though idk how relevant the +1/+1 counters are for this deck, "The Book of Exalted Deeds", and "Archfiend of the Dross," though if played right could actually combo if you gift it to your opponent. Plus also, given how cramped for space this deck already seems to be, I wouldn't be sure for myself what card to get rid of to make space for this, but I at least wanted to mention "Solemnity" as can "obvious" include to combo with "Nine Lives" if it wasn't thought of or mentioned before even though it may actually have a reason to NOT be in this list anyway.
I really don't mean to be this guy...but I've been playing this exact deck for like 2 years and I stumble upon this video. LoL Glad someone also enjoys this deck!
Dude this is awesome, I had a similar deck with only hive mind and extra turn spells that lose you the game but I had no idea you could push it this far!
i run a lot of these cards in a BR deck usually raw with minimal shenanigans. you forgot the most famous self kill spell, demonic consultation! the pure thrill of naming a win-con or interaction and hoping it doesn't get exiled and you deck yourself. also with the 3 red extra turns, glorious end, and stunning reversal you can take 4 turns in a row. though if you have platinum angel out, and a graveyard containing only a extra turn spell, plus charm breaker devils, you got infinite turns.
My main suggestion would be in the land section put in Urborg as you have cards like the Lich cards or Phage with tons of black in there casting cost. Also Black seems to be a main color in the deck anyways hence why I think you should go for Urborg over a similar effect in Yavimya. It doesnt really matter what other lands you have out for casting your multiple black symbol cards when you have Urbog out. As for what to swap out probably reliquary tower as it doesnt tap for colors and I think colorless lands lose a ton of value the more colors you run. As an aside though Radiant Performers is a fun way to use door to nothingness albeit an expensive mana investment (5 more mana). You target yourself with door to nothingness and then flash in the performers creating a copy of door ability on the stack for each opponent and the opponents lose abilities go off first. Probably not good enough for the deck but funny to think about. Not actually a suggestion but more of interaction in the same style as this deck that I find fun to share.
I got a combo out of the last few Foundations packs: Demonic Pact with Harmless Offering. Enjoy the 3 turns of Spot Removal and Card Advantage, then when you make him discard 2 cards, you play Harmless Offering to give him control of Demonic Pact. The last effect you have to choose from the Pact on upkeep is to loose the game. Now he has to choose to loose.
I got a lich deck as well with queen marchesa as the commander. A great card in that deck is beacon of immortality. It can draw me a ton of cards or one shot an opponent with tainted remedy. Since it shuffles itself back into the library it can also be looped with extra turn spells and an empty library to (slowly) kill the whole table.
You can make this a goblin charbelcher deck on the side if you only play MDF lands. You'll need more mana fixing but it is fun to pull off. Granted card or two relays on a specific land but I'm sure there are alternatives with the MDFc's. Edit: Forgot to mention [[Everybody Lives!]]. Personal favorite of mine.
Reminds me of my old deck. I had this card called "Delusions of Grandure" and "Gift". I would use the prior, get the 20 life and then gift the card to my opponent so they have to pay the upkeep until they can't and they lose.
Theres actually a 2 card synergy I would run. I forget the names but one card is all lands are swamps in addition to their other types. And the other is pay 2 tap; Gain 1 black mana for each swamp you control. This has always been a solid mana count if your deck runs black regardless of deck
If you want to make some use with archfiend of the dross, you should also consider a metamorphic alteration. As this aura will cause a creature an opponent controls to become a copy of archfiend, but it doesn't have any counters. So on that player's upkeep archfiend will end them. Also if you want more ways to donate cards, there is also Bazaar Trader (donates an artifact or creature or land to an opponent) and Zedruu the Greathearted (pay WUR, donate a permanent you control to an opponent.)
This deck makes me think of those Gaelic tales of faires with their obscure rules. As the deck controller you know all the rules so you can play around them. But your opponents don't know anything so once they break a rule they lose the game lol.
It's funny that Pact of the Titan is considered the 'worst' one these days, as when it was legal in standard it was the 'best' one, as in it was the focus of its own deck. It wasn't the greatest deck but when it did it's thing it did it well. The trick was to get 2 pact of the titans in your opening hand with a angel's grace and as far as I remember the deck was all white sources so you would have no trouble casting it. 2 4/4's on turn 1 was hard to deal with. I don't even remember how the rest of the deck was built tbh, I think other creatures and a basic removal package, but the showcase was pact/grace.
9:53 transcendence will actually form an infinite loop with lichs mastery since it will keep triggering the lose effect as long as you have more than 20 life
This is like an idea I have for a deck. An Orzhov Demon/Angel deck full of stuff that makes me lose the game, but also full of stuff that says I can't lose the game
Honorible shout out to a less known card. because it's a Dev Promo. (limited Print cards awarded to Devs for their work) it's got a unique card back so it's not actually legal Nira, Hellkite Duelist (WUBRG) Legendary Creature - Dragon Flash Flying, trample, haste When Nira, Hellkite Duelist enters the battlefield, the next time you would lose the game this turn, instead draw three cards and your life total becomes 5. dunno if you'd use it to replace Kenny. but as a hand trick could be neat to dodge a lose trigger
Those odd scroll cards, that you do certain things in order as the chapters complete. I'd love to see demonic remade as one of those. You get a set of great and powerful abilities, but the last is "YOU LOSE"
The Game is a mind game in which the objective is to avoid thinking about The Game itself. Thinking about The Game constitutes a loss, which must be announced each time it occurs. It is impossible to win most versions of The Game. Depending on the variation, it is held that the whole world, or all those who are aware of the game, are playing it at all times. Tactics have been developed to increase the number of people who are aware of The Game, and thereby increase the number of losses.
I play a rakdos deck which donates bad stuff to opponents and would personally recommend adding bojuka bog and maybe more lands that exile an opponents graveyard because you can immediately make an opponent lose for having an empty graveyard. I know the mana base is tight, but having your land be a win con is pretty good...
"Mystic Reflection" would be fun in this deck. Forbidden Orchard or Pact of Titan to bring a copy of a creature under your or your opponent control. Pretty sure "Sundial of the Infinite" is on your radar, but i guess you dont like to end your turn. You tried Stifle effects for sure and in this type of deck its annoying to only hit a single lose trigger, But "Consign to Memory" lets you counter multiple triggers, thanks to replicate
I build an Obeka deck which is grixis colors and it works amazing but it’s a very competitive deck I built it to win on turn one but so far I only able to win on turn four and so on… I love it. It has the fast mana “zero drop” counter spells and a bunch of ways to win the game on spot and while losing the game the same time but my playgroup hates it and they banned me for a good year till I build a new deck. No joke… 😅
Exchange of Words is a card you might consider as an odd pseudo-donate effect for creatures. Also works great to slow down 2 oppenents decks at once by swapping their Commander's text box.
Yo Dave. I would love to have a new follow-up video regarding to this deck where you would go through certain rules related questions/clarifications you have encountered over the course of playing this deck. Especially for us newer MtG commander players some of those "you loose the game, you win the game" trigger shenaningans can be pretty confusing. Like if you play "an extra turn but then loose" card and multiple people are allowed to copy it with Hive Mind, in which order the extra turns will happen? Would you still do the extra turn first since you are the active player whose turn ends first or what? I'm confused already by just to think of it.😅 Or what are the situations you have encountered that Enduring Angel has not been able to flip and you have "lost the game" because of that? And sure, internet is full of rules clarification regarding to possible scenarios that playing this deck would generate, but I would love to see your experience when you have played a deck like this, what kind of "problematic"/"judge call" situations you have encountered and how they have been resolved. Big thanks in advance and keep up the good work.
Red pact is so much better than white pact. And one thing that goes well together with both the extra turns and any "you lose the game" triggered abilities is Sundial of the Infinite (which is a repeatable Time Stop that only works on your turn), Obeka Brute Chronologist (essentially the same as sun dial) you could also run Time Stop, Hurkyl's Final Meditation, Discontinuity, and Days Undoing.
Can do cool tricks with the white pact though. Cast wheel of misfortune, hold priority cast the white pact. Bid an absurd amount of life, prevent the damage and gain that amount of life instead.
looking through the deck list like, "ok, I can swing 3 bucks, yep I've actually got that card already, $100, $150, $80, $80. yeah, never mind." I'm really intrigued by the concept. maybe I'll get the deck for myself after I graduate and have a solid job.
You NEED Isochron Scepter. Final Fortune on a stick with Platinum Angel (or similar) is infinite turns. There are plenty of other crazy OP spells to put on a stick as well such as Angel's Grace, or... you know... all five pacts!
Is there a good substitute for Lich? That is from Alpha and is like $200 alone. And of course This deck list is mighty steep, as much as I would absolutely LOVE to play this deck. Dockside has also been banned in Commander. Love the content!
I have a similar deck. Lich's mastery is just better than lich already. Lich can safely be replaced with either more mana or another gideon to take advantage of the emblem gideon of the trials gives you. I actually have many of the more pricey cards in this deck replaced with a couple other gideon planeswalkers and gideon's lawmaker (a 1 mana 1/1 with a 1 mana tap ability that taps an opponent's creature, which is a great way to stall considering how slow the deck is overall) obeka is also good as a free way to survive the extra turns if you don't have any of the "you can't lose" cards in play yet.
Theres a new card that has a loss condition you may or may not wanna slap in there. Marina Vendrell's Grimoire makes it so that your health is equal to the amount of cards in your hand. Any damage you take is turned into cards discarded and gaining life is turned into drawing cards.
A consideration that you may need to carry with you is that conflicting abilities like with the "cant win/lose" or "Cant lose/win" cards is that the card that comes out last has the most recent timestamp, and thus takes precedence. so don't accidentally cheat with both the Demon and Angel out at the same time. Either or, not both, is the state of the game.
Platinum Angel and Abyssal Persecutor don't have overlapping or conflicting abilities, both can be happening at the same time without contradicting each other, so the time stamp for the two is irrelevant in this regard.
I'm a big reliquary tower hater. IMO Most of the time it is a do nothing winmore card. You should be able to win just fine with the best 7 of any sized hand. In addition to that, being able to discard them to the grave has advantages, you even have built in reanimate on your commander. It is very rare I see reliquary in a deck and really feel like it is better than a basic, even in just a 3 color deck. There has to be a reaaaally good reason for it be there in order for me to let it make my mana base worse/take the place of a better utility land. That being said I probably didnt pay close enough attention and reliquary synergizes with something in this amazing silly deck well enough to justify the slot. But if it doesn't, consider a basic or a better utility land. MDFC lands go crazy dude. Waterlogged teachings is pricey and comes in tapped but it tutors for all your pacts, fractured identity, glorious end etc. And that is just one MDFC. Cool vid and cool deck tho.
Would you say Puca's Mischief would be a good fit for the deck? It's an enchant that lets you swap permanents with opponents so long as they have a permanent with equal or lesser mana value.
What sort of things can prevent Enduring Angel from transforming and cause you to lose that way? Im having a hard time seeing how that lose condition can be triggered.
If someone kills it in response to the trigger activating, you will lose because the trigger happens but it won't transform since it's in the graveyard now
So, with a "Litch" stuff on the battlefield, "Healing Salve" became an "Ancestral Recall"? :D Also, could "Zirda, Dawnbreaker" and "Sky Key" help here? Also also, Demonic Pact works well with "Bargain" effects , since you can sacrifice that enchantment :D I have 2 copies of Enduring lying around some decks but I've never actually understood how I could potentially ever lose with him: do I lose whenever I have multiple copies of him triggering at the same time?
If you want to see gameplay of this deck, you can watch my video here! ua-cam.com/video/6wKL7avGxew/v-deo.htmlsi=5DQ6bHTFjZ_T6RSJ
Is there a deck list
@@bethguenther-joyfullypure671 yup there's a link in the video description of this video
Do you have any replacements to Dockside since its banned now?
@@noob-killer It frees up a spot for Marina Vendrell's Grimiore ;)
"Reading the card explains the card."
This guy: "Oh, yeah? Losing the game _wins_ the game."
If you control an effect like Lich's Mastery with Transcendence and 20+ life, the game is a draw unless someone destroys one of them. Transcendence will trigger, attempt to make you lose the game, fail to do so and then trigger again because its criteria is still met
This actually almost happened to me with Immortal Coil, then for a while I could threaten with looping the game if I had exactly two cards in my graveyard
Lichs Mastery is my fav card, i was so excited when i saw the new version from duskmorn!
Final fortune and isocron scepter with LM takes inf turns.
Iso final fortune can win with kenrith.
@@sirtoastytoes884 idk if that’s how transcendence works tho bc it specifies that you still lose the life and therefore must exile permanents you control. Therefore you’d need to combine it with a squirrel oak and Heliod
@Elemunzi they're not talking about losing life, they're talking about the second line of text on transcendence that makes you lose at 20 or more life, while lich's mastery states that you can't lose the game.
Transcendence will constantly attempt to trigger and lose you the game and get stopped by mastery then attempt to trigger again etc. and end the game in a draw if no one removes it
@@swolegolisopod7340 I understand the first two parts - I was curious about the second because you’d still need to deal with exile triggers whenever you take damage
I thought the last deck was great for friend hate but this one might be better. Keep them coming! People still want to play with me and that has to change!
Keep in mind when the player you gave Archfiend of the Dross leaves the game, the control effect from Harmless Offering/Donate ends and it returns to you so you will also lose the game when it attempts to remove another oil counter on your upkeep and has none
As many Jon Irenicus players can attest. It's real awkward
Bazaar Teader lets you donate easily and by just tapping it
Assault suit is really fun with archfiend
@@Freddisred How, once they gain control of it from the Suit's trigger it's too late for its own trigger to go on the stack
@@slurpleslixieit's a hot potato that explodes once someone destroys the suit
Perfect deck. It's as weak or powerful as you need it to be, if you feel like you're running away with all the fun, you can always explode.
Regarding Pact of the Titan: "Djinn Illuminatus" gives your spells replicate equal to their mana cost, which is 0 in this case. Add in anything that grants haste and you can just win on the spot for free. There is also Goblin Bombardment and other ways to sacrifice creature to ping, so you can also win without haste. So, Pact of the Titan is bad, but it can be a game winning combo spell.
I was running Pact of the Titan + Djinn Illuminatus + Pandemonium as a janky Standard deck back when I first picked the game up. I'll always have a soft spot for Pact of the Titan.
Also just works with Hive Mind, cast 100 copies of pacts and pass turn everyone dies on upkeep
It also triggers Magecraft, so with Storm-Kiln Artist you get infinite treasure tokens which turns any player targeting burn spell into a win-con.
@@BrootalMetalBanjo Replicate copies spells but does not cast copies, so even if you make 100 pacts, each opponent only makes 1.
(EDIT: I didn't realize that Magecraft triggered specifically off of copies of spells, holy crap.)
conveniently, Kenrith grants trample and haste
I run a very similar deck, but in Mardu. The main wincon is Repay in Kind, which sets all players to the lowest life total among them. So if I can go down to 0 without losing, I can take everyone else down to 0, and they likely don't have these cards to protect them.
Also fun fact about Chance for Glory: The indestructible is just a permanent effect. If you somehow don't lose the game, you now have permanently indestructible creatures.
I rewatched your win con and lose con videos recently and it gave me the idea that you could run Near Death Experience in this deck. With so many effects preventing you from losing and your commander giving you more control over your life total, it seems a lot more feasible to hit that magic number. The real power would be in combining it with an effect that sets your life to 1 when you would lose (which I see you only have one of in this version), triggering that with one of your many lose cons, and then using an extra turn card to start your next turn immediately and instantly win the game.
So, it's a minor thing, but if you want a second copy of mutavault you can swap all your basics to snow basics and play 'Faceless Haven' as another creature land that is an angel. Given it's a snow land, you only need two others, sources, and I can see sneaking is a single forest and X(prob black) snow duel for your land tutors.
If you have Silverquill Lecturer out when you cast Phage, you can give the Phage Demonstrate to force an opponent to cast a copy of it. Or if you can find ways to cast lose-conditions from elsewhere than your hand, The Twelfth Doctor can Demonstrate them. Replication Technique can copy lose-conditions you already control - two copies for yourself, and one more for an opponent. =)
Note that the copy of Phage you create with Demonstrate is not one you cast from your hand, so this is only effective against the LAST opponent in the game. Other losecons you can probably copy more safely.
Another great donation card is Blim, Comedic genius.
He is a four mana 4/3 flyer with Whenever Blim, Comedic Genius deals combat damage to a player, that player gains control of target permanent you control. Then each player loses life and discards cards equal to the number of permanents they control but don't own.
With how many ‘gifts’ in this deck, the reoccurring donations while also being a target for Kenrith would make him perfect
Ran this deck. Got a hive mind out because the table didn't counter it and one attempted to naturalize it, and did pact of negation in response. Table goes apeshit. I shit you not, I have never seen a table so utterly dedicated to keeping everyone alive and ensuring I died for it. Angel ints from two people, one couldn't make it and dies, comes to my turn on 4 health, Pact of the Titan on my turn at the start of upkeep, then End the turn with split second, goes back around again with a bonus 'lose the game on endstep for everyone else. Utter rage. Thank you for this gem of a deck, I love you!
Haha, that's great :)
transcendance dosen't work with lich's mastery. ruling: If your life total is 20 or more and you control an effect that states "you can't lose the game", then an infinite loop is formed. If neither player wants to end the loop by removing one of these two cards from the battlefield, the game ends in a draw.
Yea, I run it in my Mardu deck that has a very similar theme, and I have nearly drawn games with it. I still run it since it says "you can't lose the game", but I would rather have literally any other card with that line of text, and only play it if I need to.
"....it's really difficult to get a player to 13 life....UNLESS ...(gestures at evil tree)"
tree of perdition my beloved
I remember seeing your old lose the game deck video, glad to see the updated versions
22:17 Do you have any gameplay we can watch? I love watching how the deck plays after the deck guide to see how it plays in a game
it ain’t a dave build unless there’s $500-$1000 in support “good stuff” cards 😂 Fantastic build dave, love the theme, and I might actually build this instead of the mono-black Phage deck I had planned. Great work!
Still very much love the unique approach to win conditions, or lose conditions in this case. :D
Cool to see my Sudden Spoiling suggestion being utilized!
With the Archfiend of the Dross, use Exchange of Words. Swap rules of 2 cards, choose one of their creatures. It is in play so it has no oil counters. So start of their upkeep insta loss.
I have a sumular deck, winc9n is hive mind and anything that then casts "you loose the game" and I have a card "you can't loose the game"
Cam get nutty when you cast 4 or 5 turns in a row with no consequences.
Even worse if you play a pact at instant speed on end step of a player and the one after isn't I that color.
Go-Shintai of Life’s Origin is the commander to being back hive if it's destroyed or milled.
The sleeves are that guy on a bike meme, where he puts a stick in his wheel and crashes.
idk if you're aware of it already but I found a rather unique combo with one of the extra turns, Tree of Perdition, and Stunning Reversal (as your way of dealing with the lose con specifically, there can't be any other active at the time). First turn you have this set up, you cast the extra turn, then use Tree of Perdition to save your high life total, replacing it with 13. Then on the extra turn, do whatever, but make sure you cast Stunning Reversal at the end, then when you end the turn, your current HP goes to one, and you draw seven cards, and don't lose the game. Then after that resolves, you ask if there is any response while you are at one HP, just to make sure you get your stack priority as you tap Tree of Perdition again, swapping your 1 hp with whatever the total was before you started this combo. So this gives you an extra turn, 7 drawn cards, no loss in your life total, and the ability to ping an enemy to one instantly next turn, assuming Tree of Perdition survives to that point. Bonus if the specific extra turn was Chance for Glory as then your Tree of Perdition is permanently indestructible, preserving that free ping to 1 hp. Pull that off and using one red on Kenrith to get trample will act as an instant kill for one player, assuming they don't have enough blockers to reduce the damage by a full 5.
@@CanisMythson Tree of perdition can only target opponents.
so glad I stumbled across this, I've had a lichs mastery I wanted to play with for so long and now I have somewhere to put it!
I've had a similar deck like this built around Obeka for a few months now and really enjoyed getting it to function and win, because the payoff is both unexpected and satisfying. This has given me some ideas that work with that.
That’s very cool, man! Thanks for sharing your deck! 🍷
Nice deck, such a funny concept! It may be mana expensive, but maybe some card that let take control of your opponent turn could be used to be forced into meeting whichever requirement is needed to lose the game (Like not paying for the pact, when they could). Not sure if it would be worth it tho.
One possible card to add to combo with "Nine Lives" is "Solemnity" which is an enchantment that says, "Players can't get counters and Counters can’t be put on artifacts, creatures, enchantments, or lands." So with these two cards together it makes it so that "Nine Lives" can't put any counters onto itself and thus it prevents all damage done to you. It is not as strong as the cards that say, "you can't lose the game," but sometimes just preventing all damage ever can be enough for some decks to just be shut out from winning.
That being said, I can totally understand NOT putting "Solemnity" in the deck. While I was watching, as you pointed out some cards and mentioned a 2nd card along with them as a combo card to go with 'em, when you finally got to "Nine Lives" it seemed like an obvious 2nd card to mention, but when it didn't get brought up I was definitely confused at first. But after thinking about it for a little bit, "Solemnity" could actually be such a non-bo with certain parts of the rest of the deck. First few non-bos that come to mind being Kenrith himself, though idk how relevant the +1/+1 counters are for this deck, "The Book of Exalted Deeds", and "Archfiend of the Dross," though if played right could actually combo if you gift it to your opponent. Plus also, given how cramped for space this deck already seems to be, I wouldn't be sure for myself what card to get rid of to make space for this, but I at least wanted to mention "Solemnity" as can "obvious" include to combo with "Nine Lives" if it wasn't thought of or mentioned before even though it may actually have a reason to NOT be in this list anyway.
I really don't mean to be this guy...but I've been playing this exact deck for like 2 years and I stumble upon this video. LoL Glad someone also enjoys this deck!
Dude this is awesome, I had a similar deck with only hive mind and extra turn spells that lose you the game but I had no idea you could push it this far!
Custody battle will also work well in this deck
i run a lot of these cards in a BR deck usually raw with minimal shenanigans.
you forgot the most famous self kill spell, demonic consultation! the pure thrill of naming a win-con or interaction and hoping it doesn't get exiled and you deck yourself.
also with the 3 red extra turns, glorious end, and stunning reversal you can take 4 turns in a row. though if you have platinum angel out, and a graveyard containing only a extra turn spell, plus charm breaker devils, you got infinite turns.
That snug intro was PEAK
Snug agrees ;)
You run the tales of middle earth Theodan variation just name the deck "If I go Theodan dies!"
I love this deck ty for showing it off. I desperately want to build it
I have a very similar deck though my commander is Garth. The black lotus he makes is great color fixing and ramp for the big black and white spells
My main suggestion would be in the land section put in Urborg as you have cards like the Lich cards or Phage with tons of black in there casting cost. Also Black seems to be a main color in the deck anyways hence why I think you should go for Urborg over a similar effect in Yavimya. It doesnt really matter what other lands you have out for casting your multiple black symbol cards when you have Urbog out. As for what to swap out probably reliquary tower as it doesnt tap for colors and I think colorless lands lose a ton of value the more colors you run.
As an aside though Radiant Performers is a fun way to use door to nothingness albeit an expensive mana investment (5 more mana). You target yourself with door to nothingness and then flash in the performers creating a copy of door ability on the stack for each opponent and the opponents lose abilities go off first. Probably not good enough for the deck but funny to think about. Not actually a suggestion but more of interaction in the same style as this deck that I find fun to share.
this was a great video mango it popped up on the feed and it was a good recommendation
Glorious end is definitely a reference to the original time walk design
I got a combo out of the last few Foundations packs: Demonic Pact with Harmless Offering. Enjoy the 3 turns of Spot Removal and Card Advantage, then when you make him discard 2 cards, you play Harmless Offering to give him control of Demonic Pact. The last effect you have to choose from the Pact on upkeep is to loose the game. Now he has to choose to loose.
Yeah it's a great combo, I've won with it in this deck before :)
A masterpiece. Thanks for sharing
I got a lich deck as well with queen marchesa as the commander. A great card in that deck is beacon of immortality. It can draw me a ton of cards or one shot an opponent with tainted remedy. Since it shuffles itself back into the library it can also be looped with extra turn spells and an empty library to (slowly) kill the whole table.
You can make this a goblin charbelcher deck on the side if you only play MDF lands. You'll need more mana fixing but it is fun to pull off. Granted card or two relays on a specific land but I'm sure there are alternatives with the MDFc's.
Edit: Forgot to mention [[Everybody Lives!]]. Personal favorite of mine.
Reminds me of my old deck. I had this card called "Delusions of Grandure" and "Gift". I would use the prior, get the 20 life and then gift the card to my opponent so they have to pay the upkeep until they can't and they lose.
Theres actually a 2 card synergy I would run. I forget the names but one card is all lands are swamps in addition to their other types. And the other is pay 2 tap; Gain 1 black mana for each swamp you control. This has always been a solid mana count if your deck runs black regardless of deck
If you want to make some use with archfiend of the dross, you should also consider a metamorphic alteration. As this aura will cause a creature an opponent controls to become a copy of archfiend, but it doesn't have any counters. So on that player's upkeep archfiend will end them.
Also if you want more ways to donate cards, there is also Bazaar Trader (donates an artifact or creature or land to an opponent) and Zedruu the Greathearted (pay WUR, donate a permanent you control to an opponent.)
This deck makes me think of those Gaelic tales of faires with their obscure rules. As the deck controller you know all the rules so you can play around them. But your opponents don't know anything so once they break a rule they lose the game lol.
It's funny that Pact of the Titan is considered the 'worst' one these days, as when it was legal in standard it was the 'best' one, as in it was the focus of its own deck. It wasn't the greatest deck but when it did it's thing it did it well. The trick was to get 2 pact of the titans in your opening hand with a angel's grace and as far as I remember the deck was all white sources so you would have no trouble casting it. 2 4/4's on turn 1 was hard to deal with. I don't even remember how the rest of the deck was built tbh, I think other creatures and a basic removal package, but the showcase was pact/grace.
9:53 transcendence will actually form an infinite loop with lichs mastery since it will keep triggering the lose effect as long as you have more than 20 life
I suggest using pucas mischief. It lets you send over your troublesome stuff and grabs something for you.
That's a good idea :)
This is like an idea I have for a deck. An Orzhov Demon/Angel deck full of stuff that makes me lose the game, but also full of stuff that says I can't lose the game
where's Bazaar Trader? the best repeatable donate effect hands down even if it would only work on the creatures and artifacts
Honorible shout out to a less known card. because it's a Dev Promo. (limited Print cards awarded to Devs for their work) it's got a unique card back so it's not actually legal
Nira, Hellkite Duelist (WUBRG)
Legendary Creature - Dragon
Flash
Flying, trample, haste
When Nira, Hellkite Duelist enters the battlefield, the next time you would lose the game this turn, instead draw three cards and your life total becomes 5.
dunno if you'd use it to replace Kenny. but as a hand trick could be neat to dodge a lose trigger
Those odd scroll cards, that you do certain things in order as the chapters complete. I'd love to see demonic remade as one of those. You get a set of great and powerful abilities, but the last is "YOU LOSE"
Really nice thematic deck design 😎.Maybe the Enchantment, Worship, may help against aggro?
I have a 4 Color Deck of this.
Sky Swallower is a fun addition to the deck.
The Game is a mind game in which the objective is to avoid thinking about The Game itself. Thinking about The Game constitutes a loss, which must be announced each time it occurs. It is impossible to win most versions of The Game. Depending on the variation, it is held that the whole world, or all those who are aware of the game, are playing it at all times. Tactics have been developed to increase the number of people who are aware of The Game, and thereby increase the number of losses.
@@TenBillionAnts Somehow i made it through this entire video without losing the game
@@andytheaardvark1 Yeah, the thumbnail got me immediately so I had to make the comment lmao
Amazing work, 10/10
Absolutely brilliant
I play a rakdos deck which donates bad stuff to opponents and would personally recommend adding bojuka bog and maybe more lands that exile an opponents graveyard because you can immediately make an opponent lose for having an empty graveyard. I know the mana base is tight, but having your land be a win con is pretty good...
Thank you - thats a halloween deck sorted! :D
i saw your zurgo deck, and now this. is the theme of the show "make a deck no one wants to play against"?
Kind of yeah :)
"Mystic Reflection" would be fun in this deck. Forbidden Orchard or Pact of Titan to bring a copy of a creature under your or your opponent control.
Pretty sure "Sundial of the Infinite" is on your radar, but i guess you dont like to end your turn.
You tried Stifle effects for sure and in this type of deck its annoying to only hit a single lose trigger, But "Consign to Memory" lets you counter multiple triggers, thanks to replicate
I build an Obeka deck which is grixis colors and it works amazing but it’s a very competitive deck I built it to win on turn one but so far I only able to win on turn four and so on… I love it. It has the fast mana “zero drop” counter spells and a bunch of ways to win the game on spot and while losing the game the same time but my playgroup hates it and they banned me for a good year till I build a new deck. No joke… 😅
Exchange of Words is a card you might consider as an odd pseudo-donate effect for creatures. Also works great to slow down 2 oppenents decks at once by swapping their Commander's text box.
Look into Exchange of Words because is one of those un-set (from Unfinity) that are actually legal in Commander and can really benefit this deck
Everybody Lives! Would be a great addition
The only reason that I use Kenrith's reanimate ability is to keep the peace with infinitely recurring spore frogs 🐸 🍄
Yo Dave. I would love to have a new follow-up video regarding to this deck where you would go through certain rules related questions/clarifications you have encountered over the course of playing this deck. Especially for us newer MtG commander players some of those "you loose the game, you win the game" trigger shenaningans can be pretty confusing. Like if you play "an extra turn but then loose" card and multiple people are allowed to copy it with Hive Mind, in which order the extra turns will happen? Would you still do the extra turn first since you are the active player whose turn ends first or what? I'm confused already by just to think of it.😅 Or what are the situations you have encountered that Enduring Angel has not been able to flip and you have "lost the game" because of that? And sure, internet is full of rules clarification regarding to possible scenarios that playing this deck would generate, but I would love to see your experience when you have played a deck like this, what kind of "problematic"/"judge call" situations you have encountered and how they have been resolved. Big thanks in advance and keep up the good work.
Red pact is so much better than white pact.
And one thing that goes well together with both the extra turns and any "you lose the game" triggered abilities is Sundial of the Infinite (which is a repeatable Time Stop that only works on your turn), Obeka Brute Chronologist (essentially the same as sun dial) you could also run Time Stop, Hurkyl's Final Meditation, Discontinuity, and Days Undoing.
Can do cool tricks with the white pact though. Cast wheel of misfortune, hold priority cast the white pact. Bid an absurd amount of life, prevent the damage and gain that amount of life instead.
looking through the deck list like, "ok, I can swing 3 bucks, yep I've actually got that card already, $100, $150, $80, $80. yeah, never mind."
I'm really intrigued by the concept. maybe I'll get the deck for myself after I graduate and have a solid job.
@@ThatBruh00 well dont buy dockside its now banned from commander
Whoa. 20:26 was basically seeing into the very near future when this video was made, called the ban like 2 weeks in advance
Haha yeah
You NEED Isochron Scepter. Final Fortune on a stick with Platinum Angel (or similar) is infinite turns. There are plenty of other crazy OP spells to put on a stick as well such as Angel's Grace, or... you know... all five pacts!
I think stifle effects to counter the loose the game triggers would be super good. also nobody expects you to have an ability counter
Is there a good substitute for Lich? That is from Alpha and is like $200 alone. And of course This deck list is mighty steep, as much as I would absolutely LOVE to play this deck. Dockside has also been banned in Commander. Love the content!
I have a similar deck. Lich's mastery is just better than lich already. Lich can safely be replaced with either more mana or another gideon to take advantage of the emblem gideon of the trials gives you.
I actually have many of the more pricey cards in this deck replaced with a couple other gideon planeswalkers and gideon's lawmaker (a 1 mana 1/1 with a 1 mana tap ability that taps an opponent's creature, which is a great way to stall considering how slow the deck is overall)
obeka is also good as a free way to survive the extra turns if you don't have any of the "you can't lose" cards in play yet.
@@Terrible_name awesome thanks!
Theres a new card that has a loss condition you may or may not wanna slap in there. Marina Vendrell's Grimoire makes it so that your health is equal to the amount of cards in your hand. Any damage you take is turned into cards discarded and gaining life is turned into drawing cards.
A consideration that you may need to carry with you is that conflicting abilities like with the "cant win/lose" or "Cant lose/win" cards is that the card that comes out last has the most recent timestamp, and thus takes precedence. so don't accidentally cheat with both the Demon and Angel out at the same time. Either or, not both, is the state of the game.
Platinum Angel and Abyssal Persecutor don't have overlapping or conflicting abilities, both can be happening at the same time without contradicting each other, so the time stamp for the two is irrelevant in this regard.
@@8thPlaceDave Then i may have been scammed out of a FLGS win.
Dang.
You gotta have sheoldred, the apocalypse with lich’s mastery. Gaining life or drawing a card will draw your entire library.
Yeah, that's a cool Deck I get jealous. Have you thought about urborg and or Yavimaya. Alsoay shifting Grift may fit one of the donate slots.
Urborg probably would be a good idea actually
A classic way to draw the game is to control a Lich's Mirror and a False Cure.
Donate the Mirror to someone and make them die by having
I'm a big reliquary tower hater. IMO Most of the time it is a do nothing winmore card. You should be able to win just fine with the best 7 of any sized hand. In addition to that, being able to discard them to the grave has advantages, you even have built in reanimate on your commander. It is very rare I see reliquary in a deck and really feel like it is better than a basic, even in just a 3 color deck. There has to be a reaaaally good reason for it be there in order for me to let it make my mana base worse/take the place of a better utility land.
That being said I probably didnt pay close enough attention and reliquary synergizes with something in this amazing silly deck well enough to justify the slot. But if it doesn't, consider a basic or a better utility land. MDFC lands go crazy dude. Waterlogged teachings is pricey and comes in tapped but it tutors for all your pacts, fractured identity, glorious end etc. And that is just one MDFC.
Cool vid and cool deck tho.
"If losing the game is such a good deck, where's losing the game 2?"
*the video*
Honestly, this deck is genius.
Also can you post links to the full decklists? or even affiliate links so we can buy the decklists?
I always forget to include the list! Thanks for reminding me ;)
im working on a similar Kenirith deck focused around beamtown bullies and Zedruu the Goatheart
very funny deck, video liked
Thanks ;)
I gotta try this deck
Would you say Puca's Mischief would be a good fit for the deck? It's an enchant that lets you swap permanents with opponents so long as they have a permanent with equal or lesser mana value.
I play a very similar deck but with the 12th doctor because he has demonstrate
Who knew that losing the game would be the best way to win the game
Andres I have not seen you here in a long time
What about Phyrexian Unlife? Classic Combo with Solemnity which in itself combos well with Nine Lifes.
I think this deck needs a couple of ways to sacrifice permanents. Also Solemnity is great for your deck.
No Isochron Scepter? That with Angel's Grace or an extra turn spell while you have a "can't lose the game" permanent in play would slap.
(also you should probably be playing dryad of the illsian grove)
What sort of things can prevent Enduring Angel from transforming and cause you to lose that way? Im having a hard time seeing how that lose condition can be triggered.
If someone kills it in response to the trigger activating, you will lose because the trigger happens but it won't transform since it's in the graveyard now
@@8thPlaceDave ok interesting. Is that the only scenario in which the lose condition triggers?
Fateful Handoff
Nicol Bolas, Dragon-God
So, with a "Litch" stuff on the battlefield, "Healing Salve" became an "Ancestral Recall"? :D
Also, could "Zirda, Dawnbreaker" and "Sky Key" help here?
Also also, Demonic Pact works well with "Bargain" effects , since you can sacrifice that enchantment :D
I have 2 copies of Enduring lying around some decks but I've never actually understood how I could potentially ever lose with him: do I lose whenever I have multiple copies of him triggering at the same time?
How do you feel (now this is strictly casual only) about running a Nira, Hellkite Duelist as a commander for this deck?
Amazing
Will you be updating the deck list after the bans this past Monday?
-1 Dockside Extortionist, +1 Marina Vendrell's Grimoire ;)
Add Divine Intervention just to mess with people :D
This seems so janky and cool. ❤❤❤
What about the creature Jon Irenicus that let's you give someone a creature in your end step? Wait 3 turns give them archfiend of dross and pass turn.