Anthony Davis & the "Hybrid" big man | Enhanced podcast
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- Опубліковано 12 лис 2020
- This segment is from Episode #64 of the Thinking Basketball podcast, where I outline 5 offensive archetypes for modern big men. This is about the "hybrid" big man -- someone who provides value both on and off the ball -- highlighting the notable current examples: Anthony Davis of the Los Angeles Lakers and Kristaps Porzingis of the Dallas Mavericks. In the footage, notice how they fit with LeBron James and Luka Doncic as primary initiators while also complementing them by creating their own offense.
Full episode available here: podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast...
Support at Patreon: / thinkingbasketball
Book: www.amazon.com/Thinking-Baske...
Podcast: player.fm/series/thinking-bas... or at www.stitcher.com/podcast/ben-...
Website: www.backpicks.com
Twitter: @elgee35
Ben Taylor is the author of Thinking Basketball, a Nylon Calculus contributor, creator of the Backpicks Top 40 series & host of the Thinking Basketball podcast.
Stats courtesy:
www.pbpstats.com @bballport
www.basketball-reference.com
stats.nba.com
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Footage in this video is owned by the NBA and its partners. It is intended for critique and education.
Music by csus (instrumental)
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Kd had a similar effect in golden state because they played small so much. In the playoffs it was so hard to stop them because he never held the ball. The longer you hold the ball the more time the defense has to scheme around you. But when he’s pick and popping or coming off of screens or spotting up that shit is impossible. Off ball players are super valuable in the playoffs, especially one that can play on ball if they need to like kd and ad
It’s kind of hard to say that with KD because the gravity Steph send Klay have was also insane
@@tenticklezz9537 had*
PS: Not a grammar Nazi.
@@tenticklezz9537 yes and KD isn’t a defensive juggernaut like AD you can easily score on KD
@@dilli915 Hes not a defender like ad but hes a good defender. People forget he was a good rim protector for gsw
@@dilli915 Kd was one of the best shot blockers in the league in GSW lol. Averaged 1.8 blocks per game and that’s extremely high for a small forward.
Until now I had only thought of shooters (Klay Thompson comes to mind) as the best off ball players. This video opened my eyes to the off ball movement of the big man. Thanks for the great content once again Ben
Facts this literally opened my perspective to something I've never thought about
I been following basketball hardcore about 5-6 years like down to learning actions schemes etc. my first exposure eye opening
Just like Ray Allen
@Daniel Ridore 😳
I’ve missed this level of analysis, it’s better than most “professionals” on tv
He IS a professional though.
Most?
@@cheekysteez yes most, just for example I think Tim Leglar(I think) gives great analysis
@@knodeway1826 I love Tim legler glad you mentioned him.
@@knodeway1826 hubie brown too
I listen to your podcasts or videos to go to sleep then I wake up like Dexter when he learned French. I just say "portability", "per 75", and "in my metric" all day.
His voice is rather soothing.
this is a great comment. keep up the good work
Me too. Now whenever I disagree with someone or think they're wrong I just say "that might just be a difference in philosophy".
I swear I believe everything this guy says😂
It's so true. He's really a luminary in illuminating the progressive abstracts of the game to the average fan imho.
He helps us to think deeper about a game that's long been viewed at surface level.
He backs it up tho so it's well placed belief
@@T.H.E.O.R.Y. facts my guy
I don't know anything this guy says.
Don't believe him because uses big fancy terms and numbers, believe him because he backs up his claims with evidence and statistics and film. All claims need evidence to back them up
Best basketball content
By far
He does such a great job at interpreting the numbers and give them context
Davis is really a unicorn man he can pretty much do anything on the court and with the right pieces around him like this year he showed that he can impact a winning team. PS I like your vids and started making NBA videos too😬
The big ticket KG
He can't playmake and he has always been overrated as a shooter. Also can't play point in the NBA.
AD has always been a remarkable player, but this postseason he showed something that could take him into the best bigmen ever convo, that being an iso post game. Those midrange fadeaways with a hand in his face could be a consistent iso weapon going forward, which, added to his goat offball skills, would bump his offensvie game to another level.
Best modern big man maybe, but I don't think any big man today can be as dominant as the big men back in the day. Idk
I don’t disagree with your take but he’s been doing this since around year 3. I’m a huge fan of his but I wanna see him do it more consistently. He sometimes checks out of games for a little while and Idk if he’s tired, hurt, or just coasting. He definitely has the skills to be the best big ever thou
@@samuelloetscher1815 Big men of the past will give up (100% certain that they will) much more on defense in the modern game than they could potentially add (it's possible that they won't add anything because they didn't have a jump shot) to the offense.
@Miserable Life oveall shooting in the bubble was less than a percentage point higher than shooting in the regular season. Bubble shooting is a myth
@@samuelloetscher1815 The game is still big man reliant. Jokic is an all time big man this season, as is AD. Being top 10- top 15 range
His jumper the whole playoffs was what really made him reach another level. Doubt that it’s sustainable but if it is, then you’re absolutely right about him being the best player in the league due to his high level impact on both ends & his malleability with different roster personnel.
Long time listener of the podcast! Listened to every episode! I love the visual examples with the audio in this video!
Damn I am just now realizing you have a podcast, another one to add to the bank. Great stuff!
It's so good. Just like one of his videos, except 30 minutes to an hour of content.
Great insight as always. Off ball gravity is talked about all the time with guards but very rarely does anyone comment on the pull a dominant big can have due to rebounding and lob threats in the same way so its great to see the bigs getting some love here.
Bringing the podcast to life. Love it.
Thanks Ben. Love these videos. Keep up the great work!
Really good way to promote the podcast, great stuff!
Ive always said AD was the true unicorn because he can shoot from anywhere on the court with moderate success but also guard every position with moderate success. Especially in these playoffs though did he showcase his full repertoire
1 second in, already ascended past galaxy brain status in terms of NBA understanding
I remember watching a practice video at Nike hoop summit and the coach saying “ you’re gonna be on a team with Westbrook or Kyrie Irving . You’re gonna have to learn how to create space without the ball and get rebounds to make yourself have the ball.” Some of the best advice I’ve heard for a young player
Already looking forward to this, best basketball UA-cam channel out there
Fantastic video, i think players like AD are becoming my favorite type of player (on pair with the heliocentric star).
Im still so grateful this channel was suddenly recommended to me. Great analysis
Pleaasseee upload more I literally fall asleep to your podcasts lol your breakdowns are so good and as a basketball player it has me interested in statistics and such also your voice is kinds soothing to fall asleep to 🤣🤣
Love the way dude sees and explains the game and players. We need a deep dive on Embiid though. Your rankings on him warrant it so we can see what you see
Do you think there's a chance, given his ability to impact the game so much off ball, and his versatility in terms of shooting, transition, and switchability on defense, that if you were trying to construct an all-time starting five that actually played well together, and could play well in any era, he'd be the ideal five? Not necessarily because he's straight up better than someone like Shaq or Kareem, but just because he checks so many boxes while providing so few if any weaknesses.
And he also doesn't demand the ball in order to have an impact, which is good in an All-time team because you'd want Jordan, LeBron, or maybe Magic to have the ball more often, and picking someone like Shaq would require you to run the offense through him a bit to get the most value, limiting the impact those other players might have.
Maybe? I think he struggles a bit with stronger/bigger opponents so across eras he might be better at the 4 and someone like Duncan being at the 5 (I know he's a PF but modern basketball).
@@anthonynorman7545 yeah it’s so hard to pick a team that could succeed in all eras and rule sets.
@@TheAliasGaming yeah, so many decades of differences. No one in the past 50 years could dribble in the 50s without getting a violation
When I think of an all time team I think of what teams I could come up with that could possibly beat it. I think in a scenario like this you would need two solid big men for the 4 and 5. I have 1. Lebron 2. Jordan. 3. Kobe. 4 AD 5 Kareem. I feel like at the 4 spot Hakeem Duncan Garnett and dirk could all replace AD and the team wouldn’t be any better or worse.
@@55jemmz5 I think that team lacks some perimeter shooting in terms of an ultimate ceiling. Other than that, it’s good. Hard to find a group of 5 that has the highest ceiling, can play with each other and make one another more than the sum of their parts, and has no weaknesses against specific matchups or lineups. For instance, Kareem is great, but he’s probably a slight negative in a modern game if he goes up against a good small ball team. Put him in the PnR with his slow feet, and beat him out in transition. That’s why I’d figure AD might not be ideal, but like someone said, he could then conversely get bullied by the other great big men with more strength.
holy demon your podcasts are everything thank you from australia
Didn't know you had a podcast. Subscribed to it
Great content
Incredible analysis
This discussion speaks to my favourite basketball question: What's your all-time 5?
For me, it's such fertile ground for contemplation because it foregrounds the combinatorial and contingent nature of basketball. I hope Ben can cover it deeply in the future, as his lateral thinking and conception of ceiling-raising seem primed to do it real justice.
FWIW I personally have 8 guys in contention (including Anthony Davis):
Curry, MJ, Bron, Bird, AD, KG, Olajuwon and Bill Russell...
Love AD's game even more now
I'm astounded that you never referenced Hakeem Olajuwon for the Hybrid Archetype.
I think he demands the ball a bit too much
Imagine AD in the Warriors offense
no
I’ve thought about this
3:33 Oh Hassan Whiteside...smh
4:59 is even worse. Exactly how he manages to not be a great defender even leading the league in blocks and getting a lot of rebounds.
When healthy Anthony Davis is the best big man on earth. Skill wise on offense and defense. Overall AD might be the best big man ever. The only weakness AD has is his health. His game is crazy great.
I legit just listened to this podcast yesterday. Was trying to take my mind off this ps5 craze
Your Admiral peak brought me here. I love the peaks series. The hybrid big man is as awesome a hybrid as a last name like Sanguillen or like a hybrid vampire-werewolf
I just discovered your channel this is some good shit
Love it w/o the music.
this format is the best, everything with more visual context is better. Your top 10 recap for examples, if it had footage i would definitly watch but as it is now, its too boring for me. Anyway big fan keep up the good content.
UNDERRATED AF
There are people that have as high as 2 and nobody has him less than 6, he's not underrated
Great stuff, as always! can you explain the numbers on AD again? it doesn't add up to me - how can 10-15% deep in his mid-range shooting drop his overall points per 100 by 3 points? wouldn't he have to be taking around 20 shots per 100 from that area alone? What did I miss?
I never hear anybody give Carlisle props for his coaching so thanks for that
Can we get an Amare stoudemire/Steve nash breakdown?
Crazy how people disrespect KP because of the slow comeback, it’s like people lost faith in him after wanting out of NY (who wouldn’t?!)
When it comes to the big men, you HAVE to have a dribble to be the #1 guy in the game. These guys are elite #2 options. Great defense, solid shooting, and raw size. Klay is the other type of # 2 I like. Shooting and defense at an elite level in exchange for size.
+Thinking Basketball I have some unsolicited constructive criticism. Your analysis is, as always, excellent. I think you could make your content more accessible to a wider audience by using on-screen graphics to contextualize numbers.
I'm writing this after hearing your explanation of how good the Pels were with AD on the court at 2:48 . I think adding to the graphics (or your narration, but the screen graphic strikes me as easy without changing much) some kind of context for the number relative to the league. 115 offensive rating is just a number without significance if the viewer isn't intimately familiar with league trends in advanced stats. Maybe this isn't analytically sound as a way to contextualize those numbers, but if you could put in that banner at 2:48 like "Equivalent* to 3rd best offense in the 18/19 season." That seems like a very low effort way to make your analysis more accessible to that wider audience. Perhaps comparing lineups to full team offensive ratings isn't a good way to give that context, and you could compare "Pels with AD" to "Bucks with Giannis" but that starts being more work. Huge fan of your videos, hope you find this input useful!
Absolutely
Other historic players like AD: Bob MacAdoo and Jerry Lukas. Over the midrange, you have Dave Cowens and Bob Lanier.
Any day with an update from you is good, podcast or video, or I guess in this case it would be both
AD is just starting, we would probably see him improve in terms of being more all rounder than most big men in the NBA.. his getting there.m
Can podcasts be played at x2 speed? I want more of this, but can't do normal speed
Dirk was a good hybrid big that could’ve beasted in today’s NBA
Kinda surprised you don’t work for the ringer, the athletic, espn, etc., by now.
Hard to still call Anthony Davis entirely unique in today's game where Jaren Jackson Jr., Porzingis, KAT, Myles Turner, Embiid, the list goes on of solidly athletic bigs who can shoot - that's how they're raised today. That said, AD is the best of the bunch.
what makes him unique is not his shooting, is his off ball quality, as said in the video. KAT is a prime example of a big man that can shoot and adds close to nothing off the ball. Davis, Porzingis and potentially JJJr are the ones that have all this unique qualities. And, by the way, Embiid is a 32% 3p shooter. He cannot shoot. He just does.
@@brennomachado5585 I agree with your point but AD is also a 32% 3 point shooter. his bubble shooting was anomalous. Unless this is the beginning of an upward trend
@@johnkirk. AD is a modern Kevin Garnett. That’s how good he is! He could easily take out those long contested 2’s and shoot more open stand still 3 pointers and up his % but that’s not how he gets his rhythm.
@@brennomachado5585 AD is an 85% free throw shooter and an excellent mid range shooter . Embid can shoot but he’s just not efficient from anywhere. He needs to be in the low post more to be successful.
@@johnkirk. yes, i dont know about midrange though, ad always looked better than embiid shooting. We will see this season if the incredible shooting was because of the no pressure bubble or because the lakers creates better looks for him than the pels
Could you analyze The Joker’s defense
AD still one of the most underrated in the league
If he can keep it up and get 2-3 more rings he could be the greatest pf of all time. Such a complete player
*Imagine Ralph Samson in this era!!! Imagine David Robinson in this era!!*
Who will be remembered as the GOAT PF of the 20’s?
Giannis? AD? ZION? Porzingis?
*Imagine Tom Gugliotta in this era!! Imagine Detlef Shrempf in this era!!!*
Best big man in the game. Go Lakers!
Can you please talk about KAT
He said yesterday during game 2 lol
I’d say he’s like Tim Duncan with Amare athletic ability
With an all star wings fluidity... has a chance to challenge Timmy as the GOAT PF but Giannis is on that ass lol
This guy was literally talking about how AD can't win a chip with a team built around him the whole video, and you compared him to a franchise centerpiece like Duncan.
@@kronmeicrumbs u know the only good player AD had was Jrue holiday right? Eric Gordon didn’t wanna play in NOLA and often injured same with tyreke Evans, that team gave real minutes to a washed Kendrick Perkins and a washed emeka okafor, are u kidding me? Was he suppose to beat the warriors with that team?
@@conduitofthegospeldarrellb9154 why don’t more people talk about Duncan vs Giannis and if giannas can become the goat PF , he is literally the perfect modern day big
There’s also the issue that Duncan was a center for most of his career, according to basketball reference
yeah great comparasion between AD and Kp ,AD is more athletically gifted cuz he is much more agile but KP shooting is much better he can hit three from logo in 35% of the time wich is insane,but yeah AD right now is much better and is true unicorn,if KP gets healthy and starts showing up he might be close one day
Yea I think the mid range game separates AD from all the other bigs.
Is the announcer he's talking about JVG?
Not to discredit LBJ, but AD played like and deserved a FMVP as well.
Everybody know Anthony Davis now (2020) is better than any version Kevin Garnett.
Question is... who is better?
Anthony Davis now or Prime Tim Duncan?
Kevin Garnett is still overall the more impactful player in my mind, mainly because of his outstanding defensive value. Especially in his days in Minnesota. Prime Duncan is a different type of player. He played center most of his career and while he was an all-time great isolation player and a defensive juggernaut, he didn't really have much of an off-ball game. I'd take Duncan over AD and Garnett as a number 1 option.
His mid range is like Steph's 3 point ball. It looks like it can't continue but it does.
This guy sounds identical to Matt stone from South Park
wait youre just alone in your podcast??
If kristaps stays healthy he is a beast
In theory Could AD play the 3?
Anthony Davis needs a RELIABLE wing shooter to drain 3-pointers from the weakside corner or wing off a Skip Pass from Anthony Davis.
How does this type of big compare to KAT? from afar he seems like a similar player. That inside-outside game that you described, KAT seems to be a better example than Porzingis given how proficient he is at both post ups and shooting outside the arc.
He had KAT with Jokic in a category he called The Full Package. There are a lot of similar skills involved, I think the operating difference between the categories is that Full Package guys have the offense built around them and allow them to do all sorts of things, whereas the Hybrid/Offball guys don't necessarily have things built around them.
@1:19 Kevin Garnett
Defenders will gladly give Anthony Davis that mid-range jumpshot but he started become very accurate with that mid-range jumpshot. 😅😅
Too bad he refuses to be a 1st Unit Center.
Anthony Davis is HELL-BENT on starting games at the 4-spot.
@@Thanosdidtherighthing When Anthony Davis moved to the 5-spot in the NBA Finals against the Miami Heat, they gave him that 18 feet jumpshot outside the left mid-post area. 😀😀😀
I was stating a fact about what actually happened on the court, not an opinion.
Last nights game against the heat? 🤔🤔😂😂
No offense but it's better when you lay out points just like a regular video and not a snippet from your podcast. It just flows better
Jarren Jackson up next
AD, KP. The next in line is JJJ
Hey, so I was making a formula for context, since nobody actually takes context into account anymore, but I have a problem of where to start. I've been getting data. But it doesn't help as much because I don't have as much experience ciphing through it.
An example for it is like if you ran games from the end of November to December, Westbrook, one of the worst 3 point shooters ever had a 40% shooting performance. On 25th December, he shot 0/7 against the Warriors, I was at that game. That brought it back down to his normal 27%. But context might be bad, but at 9/10 good games. Or 7/10 good games, can't find the stats sorry, couldn't adjust in stats.nba to bend that way. Shouldn't context prevail in the 9/10 game? He was great in 9 out of 10 and then was horrendous in 1/10, that means he outperformed everyone efficiency wise in 9 out of the 10 games, again I might be wrong because I didn't check the other efficiencies but overall including passing, rebounding and winning.
willis reed? walt bellamy?
Anthony Davis just got his new point guard for the present and future, after Lebron James retires. 😀😀😀
A.D. and new Laker via trade Dennis Schroder are both 27 years old.
Schroder fits as an INSTANT OFFENSE GUY off the bench = 14 to 18 points.
Lets not forget about KD for a sec here
Lamar Odom?
This is what JJJ can be
Although your analysis is amazing, its heavily based on current year. Every year you give insane props to the players who win, nothing wrong with it, just some survivorship bias that this channel can probably do better without
actually ben was high on ad even before this year
KG could pass better than AD, his midrange was better. Seeing how deep his midrange was you could say his stroke was better. Pause. His handle was better.
IMO, KG was better.
Why is kg white in the thumbnail lol
Didn't jokic ate him in the playoffs?
first
Congratulations Luke! Have a great day man
AD better than Tim Duncan
If you interested in a full overview of the draft ua-cam.com/video/CstBDsY5roY/v-deo.html it my first video let me know what you think
After watching this video I will have watched every single on fo your videos, I can’t get enough of this great analysis and will now move to the podcast!