I need more hands! Setting timing on our Subaru WRX
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- Опубліковано 3 жов 2024
- This week Davin tackles timing on our Subaru EJ205. It's a few pulleys here, a couple of tensioners there, one long belt, and never enough hands to hold everything.
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Davin was the smartest thing Hagerty ever did when they started this channel. He and Tom are all ya need.
An they camera crew along ,its all about TEAM WORK, but ur right these two gentlemen are differently top notch at their skills
Love this guy. The perfect neighbor or shop buddy!
In-car timing belt job in a Subie is really pretty easy and there's plenty of room once the radiator and fans are removed. Much easier than transverse-mounted engines.
Depends on the Transverse engine, some are extremely easy
'Much easier'... that depends on the car.
@@eppyz Yah. Toyota 5S-FE is trivial.
Not Easier than American v8 or ls.
Honda J series is pretty easy - especially on the vans and SUVs. Pull the wheel and wheel well liner: everything is right in front of you.
Company 23 cam locker tool for the Subaru EJ-series engine is a life saver when doing timing belts. Cuts the install time down immensely.
Got that as well as their crank holder bar for tightening the nut, and some binder clips to hold the belt in place. Most drama-free timing belt I've done
@@lacrossev Just make sure you get the right tools if you're lucky enough to have Dual AVCS. (different)
As retired heavy duty diesel mechanic that's such a cute little engine! Lots of little things to break! Definitely need the right tools and lots of patience.
Yea I think the size of the engine is the only hassle.
That's funny, I built my first project car with one of these engines. I stepped up from model engines, everything seems huge to me!
@@jackemarleeyoung it's definitely easier with the engine out of the car 😆
@@jsquared1013 tell me about it, my fat hands get caught on everything! I can’t wait to have a lift in my garage 💀
Please mention that before the installation of the cams (heads) turning the crank to the mark on the block positions all of the pistons a half travel. Then you can rotate the cams, at will, with no danger. I've done 3 belts, over the years, on my own 2 cam Subies and life is good.
I have done a couple subi timing belts and water pumps, 2011 & 2004 legacy. your comment at the end of not wanting to do in car due to lack of space isn't a concern. Surprisingly not that bad and more than enough room for a guy with large lumpy arms.
It's not much harder in the car, but using your phone as an inspection camera for the lower marks is a nifty tip. People definitely make it into a much bigger deal than it is, as with most things Subaru. The SOHC cars are even easier, of course. Can't say I endorse hammering on the belt, but it'll probably run at least. XD
I think I'm going to have to pull the radiator to be able to do mine in the engine bay. Big hands and the shoulders are not as flexible as they used to be 😅
@@jsquared1013 Oh definitely pull the radiator. I'd never try to do one without. Two bolts, two clamps, two electrical connectors, drain it, pull it out. 😁
I lived on the 80's Subaru GL wagons for about 15 years. Loved the EA82 1.8 engines. Non interference motors could break a belt and do no damage. I always pulled the engine to change timing belts. Was too easy not to.
EJ18 and EJ22 were non interference until 1997 as well. Unkillable little engines. :D
Man this build is taking some time! Can't wait to hear it Rumble for the first time. Looks great.
But what they going to put it in since they destroyed the car?!
Looking at that boxer engine makes me really appreciate the coolant systems of old engines. Like a Ford or Chevy small block, apart from the heater and radiator hoses, there's no external coolant circulation.
Looking forward to the next engine...or maybe gearbox. You should try a mid 00's BMW 6 Cylinder for a change :)
Love your videos ❤
MY RockAuto tip of the day is that if you live overseas (like in my case) ask your friends to order at the same time with you (from the same account at best), that way you save on some shipping costs and not to mention the delivery time is somewhat shortened since they will send a truck full of parts rather than 3-4 different ones on 3-4 different days. (Feel free to use this tip in the next video if you want). The thing i love the most about RockAuto is that they also deliver to Germany, i ordered lots of parts from them in the last few years. Im glad to see that Hagerty and RockAuto are working together.
Hmmm... M54 would be a great thing to see on this channel.
From memory one trick with getting the belt on is to leave off one of the lower idler pulleys, install belt then install the pulley. It's not that bad to do in car but the dohc engines can be a bit painful because one side is rocking on the valves. I think there's actually a tool that locks the sprockets together.
That is how the factory service manual tells you to do it. Add a couple of spring clamps and no extra hands are needed.
Also, the three belt guides will help. Align the marks on the pulleys that have the guides, set the guides as close to the belt as you can. Align rest of the marks, install the last idler, pull the tensioner pin and set the guides for proper clearance. Easy.
Nice work on the timing belt setup. Only thing is that I WILL NOT hammer the belt into its position. That's what tensioner for. Just need simple close end wrench on the to turn it CW. It doesn't take much pressure to turn it and slip the belt in its place. It definitely need a 1/2" square hole in the middle for 1/2" ratchet wrench to turn it instead on the bolt... However, I don't know if it uses righty thread bolt.
looks good love the blue and gold. Cant wait to see this EJ run!
when doing the timing belt on a EJ motor always leave the bottom left idler pulley off, slip on the belt, then install the timing belt. i learnt the hard way too and no need to bash it on. quick grips saved my life as well
I have never worked on any Subaru engines before but I'll give it a shot one day. Patience and trying not to flip out is the key.
My daughter's friend thought he could fix her Subaru and used an impact to put the water pump and timing pulleys back on. Thank god for my patience and helicoils, I got the thing back together.
On Mitsubishi 3000 GT's, it's actually in the book to use binder clips to hold the timing belt onto the gears as you work your way around.
I watched a guy years ago do one of these belts. He cut half the width of the old one off in situ with a sharp knife then placed the new one on enough so he could cut old one and pushed new one home.
That's pretty ingenious. Might be a bit more tedious to replace the idler pullies with the belt in place...pick your poison I guess.
Clever
From what I read of the service manual for my EJ207, the water pump bolts should be torqued to 7NM and in anti-clock wise order. I was worried about 7NM cannot hold the coolant pressure so I torqued them to 10NM and no problem at all.
I wish I could afford to rebuild my Subi to this level, this looks like such a clean engine build!
This is the cheap part. Building the internals is where it is expensive. $1k for forged rods and pistons, A
another $1k for the timing kit and full gasket set, $150-200 for bearings... takes a lot of money to make any kind of power on a subaru.
Really cool looking engine, that shade of blue is perfect. Maybe not "beautiful" like an older engine is but just as aesthetically pleasing, in a different way.
There’s special tools to make that job much easier! I just assembled an ej25 and it made a world of difference putting the belt on using the cam holding tools.
Those engines are goofy to say the least but I’ll admit ….they do make good power when boosted
Davin: "try something new"
Me: "we fear change"
If nothing changes things will stay the same
Cerakote is absolutely amazing! Also, PLEASE swap out that pulley with a Fluidampr, the internals of that engine will thank you!
So far, that's the best thing I've seen on this engine.
Great to see someone doing it, but Subaru engines are tricky and have so many variations that the best lesson in this is do a lot of research on the particular engine you have, first. Special tools can't be avoided along with tried & tested procedures.
I disassembled my four cylinder bike engine & rebuilt it without a manual no problems but a Subaru Boxer is on another level. Dual AVCS & turbo aren't fun under the bonnet but great behind the wheel. Just had to re-thread the timing belt tensioner bolt after a mechanic over-torqued & stripped it. I was just lucky it didn't disintegrate when the belt skipped. They hadn't changed the camshaft/crank seals like I paid for either. DIY or die.
You need a Company23 cam lock tool!
Cable ties, or zip ties (in American) are the best way to temporarily hold timing belts in place, they won't poke you in the eye like a grip clamp will.
VERY well done sir. LOVE the Cerakote colors. Nice easy Helicoil. I could not tell if you had the pistons at half-mast brfore timing, which makes things easy. I notised you had the big special wrench. Wood working clamps are the bomb. A great video.
I have a 1998 twin cam.....car only.....engine overheated and had a nervous melt down. I've done the belt on a simple Subaru.....but you made this more complicated one look just as easy.
Great video as usual... I know nothing about Subaru engines, but from watching this series, it looks way more complicated than an M5 V10... and that's saying something!
When tapping or cutting aluminium, a light tapping fluid works much better than the heavy tapping lubes designed for ferrous metals. I use eucalyptus oil but plain old WD40 also works.
Yay I forgot to mark it when I took it apart so fortunate they have there own markings
Just one warning, at 10:18 I noticed the timing belt tensioner from the cheap Gates timing kit, it's the one made in Canada, i had very bad experiences using that tensioner failling before 200 miles loosing all tension and making knocking noises! I would recomend to use a genuine Subaru Tensioner
I concur, Gates kit used to have all made in Japan components but it's been several years since the change to chinese bearings and other parts of dubious quality. Stick to OEM or Aisin, all made in Japan parts.
I think the Subaru original one is made by NTN. That's the one I'm using.
This engine has given you about as many surprises as a 45yr old Lycoming on its 27th TBO refresh
Just used RockAuto to get the new rear wheel bearings I needed for my Forester. I certainly saved some money but wow did I blow some time. That was one of the worst repairs I have ever had to do. I beat the daylights out of the old hub and wheel bearing for hours. It wasn't recognizable when it finally came out.
We’ve all been there with wheel bearings! Especially the folks from Michigan!
Did you use a fire wrench? That often helps in situations like that.
i bought an entire new hub for my forester off there because i did not want to deal with pressing the bearings out. it was worth every extra cent i paid
Please beware of that perrin solid pulley; solid pulleys on those are known for causing premature bearing wear 'cause it removes the harmonic dampening effect the OEM pulleys have.
Other than that, the builds looking great man!
Hey, the horizontal layout of the engine makes for some really well balanced engines. Somewhere on NASIOC there was a debate about solid/light weight pulley’s and harmonic dampening. After a lot of back and forth, someone emailed Subaru and got a reply from an engineer. They stated that the “dampener” was not functional as one, and one was not needed for the engine.
Subaru’s are well known for rod bearings/oil starving issues, as well as other things. But I’m not aware of premature main wear caused by dampeners.
I could be very wrong, this is just what I’ve found with research while working with Subaru engines.
@@balletdude fair enough, I'm digging for the thread I'm referencing and can't for the life of me find it.
Perhaps it's the 1JZ I'm thinking of.
I know almost all other engines need them, it’s hard to make anything balanced. H4 engines just end up being really well harmonically balanced, I think there’s a really good description of it in a “driving 4 answers” Subaru video on UA-cam (his videos are amazing).
Subaru forums also end up being full of enginerds who over think and over analyze everything, it’s kinda great at times, and sometimes awful. I think some still make the argument for a harmonic balancer, while others reject the idea - unlike v8 engines where one is absolutely necessary.
Check out the Subaru video by driving 4 answers. I’ll look again and see if that’s the right one.
Cheers
Maurice
@Michaels Carport
I had one with a light weight flywheel on a gc8 motor, and it would stall sometimes because of the lack of rotating mass, I actually regretted putting the light pulley on. I actually would have put a stock one back on, but my new engine sits pretty visible (mid engine with no pulley covers). Aside from looking good, you’re right in them not really doing anything.
I haven’t heard of anyone having premature main bearing wear from a light pulley though. Most Subarus blow up long before then lol. Is that something you’ve witnessed/read online?
I enjoy this very much. An inspiration.
The colors are great!
Love the outrage at 8ft# of torque, errrrmerrgawd its so much....
If I were you I would rotate the engine at least 4 full turns on the crank to see if they line up properly and also this tensioner didn't react at all. It should at least move a few mm. I had a defective one and it was hitting the iron part of the block and making crankshaft noises... :)
"Do whatever it takes"....YES!! :)
I installed one of those coils in 1976, I broke the tip of the tool used to thread the coil. Wait, back in '76, no coils were being sold. The tool was lent to my dad from the US army.
I get the sense that you don’t love the Subaru engine 😅
Looking forward to what it will go in.
I think it’s just a little different and a bit out of his comfort zone. It’s always good to challenge yourself that way.
@@fishguy911 Very true, but Subaru's are known to be a PITA to work on.
That's because he recognizes it's a POS
@@eppyz not really. I find them quite easy to work on. But I’m used to them.
It's funny to me how this much newer Subaru has a LOT of the same assembly "watch-outs" as the '88 GL wagon I blew up twice in high school (my fault, not the car's), I do remember lots of stripped threads and broken puny bolts but dammit I loved that car for some inexplicable reason. Probably just coz coming from '76 Novas and 60' Ford trucks it was from a different planet in another solar system. It took me quite a bit further down the Gulf Coast beach and mud a lot of 4x4's of the time just couldn't without sinking like aerodynamic rocks
109 inch pounds is 12Nm. That is pretty normal for a 6mm 10 grade bolt.
Installing timing belt on that engine is real fun when the engine is in the car.
😄. Nice work. I changed the timing belts (2) on my ‘83 GL1100 goldwing engine. Boxer, like your Subaru. I used vice grips to hold the cam gears in place - also a zero clearance engine. Next time I’ll try the ‘clamp method’.
I've used binder clips on my timing belt jobs on an 02 wrx and 04 STi, holds tight and I was able to do it in the car. The clamps look like something I'd forget then poke my eye out with
I think you should use that red pulley! That beautiful blue actually goes really well with that vibrant red and then gold pipes. 👍🤩
At the dealership we use binder clips
Hope a porsche is next. Just interesting to compare how they did it. 1st gen boxter shouldn't be too expensive.
You guys should find a early bug to throw that into. You know....keep the boxer 4 idea but modern and mo powa!
Turn it over by hand before you fire it up! Nice work sir!!!
It’s hard to believe they started posting this project July 11 22
Hello Davin!, just for you to know....I think I've seen a little crack in the block where the Helicoil was put, just in the inside part where the water flows... stop the video on 4:07 and check the thread wall.
Oh crap you might be right. Just to the right of the thread insert. If it does leak past the threads it will show up as a drip at the bolt head. Some pipe dope or lots of Loctite would pretty much solve it.
turn all pulleys forward to 3 clicks. they stopped and easy to put timing belt.
and lower right side(left from front)pulley must set as final one.
ahh I want to help you at Hagerty HQ 😁
If they provide a port and tool set for locking down the cam and crank at the correct position, it will be much easier.
Brilliant🏴🏴
A Subaru dealership messed up the timing on my 11' Sti during the 90k mile service. A month later it grenaded itself and they footed the bill for a long block and labor. I now see how that was possible.
Put this awesome engine into a subaru brat
Would like to see it in a Beatle and ripping 11's in the 1/4
Well I've never been first on UA-cam before ! Loving the series.
Not a lot of dress-up needed ... that's a pretty great looking motor from the get-go.
if one thinks this motor is hard to deal with one should Porsche and setting one of those up now that can be FUN and take time some time a long time
what vehicle is this thing going in? I had no idea building an engine took so much work to get everything right. Ive just binge watched everything up till this and I'm so ready for this build to be finished.
I see you're using Company23 pulley wrenches. You should get the cam gear locks as well
Cool af that you guys are doing an EJ 👍
Wouldn't a Time-sert be a better long term solution?
I would love to see davin rebuild a KA24DE out of a Nissan 240sx.
Não canso de ver esses videos
Thanks for doing the good old EJ engine justice. These engines have got me from point A to B for so many years. If you were to use this engine as your daily driver/work car, what would you change?
Ditch the rubber timing belt for chains or, ideally, gears and mount the water pump outside the timing case.
@@bachelorchownowwithflavor3712 are you familiar with products to do that conversion on an EJ? I'm not, and the parts from the other Subaru engines with timing chain are not compatible. Based on my limited understanding, what you are suggesting isn't even practical if you have a machine shop. Nothing wrong with the belt, and there are upgrade JDM oil pumps that are a common upgrade. The belt isn't any problem with maintenance every 100,000 miles, probably not worth the effort to make that change in my humble opinion.
@@aaronredbaron I was approaching OP's question from a "how would I redesign the engine" perspective rather than "how would I modify an existing engine."
Good work!!! I suppose, this engine is for Buddha with six hands.
Когда уже будет мотор ЗАЗ 968, вот это было бы класс)))
You're missing the timing belt guide on the center pulley. Just FYI
Company 23 cam gear tool, youre welcome.
Have you announced what this is going in yet?
Legit need 4 hands. I bolt the Tensioner in last, after the belt has been setup on all timming marks. Then stretch for slack to fit the Tensionor with the crank and inlet cam. Its better hitting with a hammer...
Still hoping this beauty goes into a Beck Spyder. My guess anyways.
Davin, they're sprockets, not pulleys. I've done 2 timing belts on Subarus and both times so hard to fit the belt going with the factory method. Also, both times they skipped a tooth after going for the first drive.
Love it
still hoping they throw this in an old vw beetle when its rebuilt
Regarding the stripped threads, as they say, “Sometimes you are the dog and sometimes you are the hydrant.”
I like cars, I like engines. But I also like simplicity. Electric cars is the way to go all the way.
Самый нижний ролик стоило ставить после установки ремня. Так и в инструкции написано. Таким образом получается очень легко
Great content as ever. BUT WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO WITH IT?
Jajajja… los he visto más habilidosos montando distribuciones de Subaru… pero muy buena para ser la primera… un saludo
Hand tight on the water pump... I've had the same thread woes by trying to hit the actual torque spec
Can someone remind me what they are going to do with that engine, since the car is no more?
Nearly a 100% change Davin will need to helicoil a cam cover bolt hole.
with that chineese tensioner you're gonna have a bad time.
Those things regularly lose their damping, then flop around jumping timing.
HAs it been mentioned yet where this engine will be going when done?
Davin... What are you putting this engine into? Since you scrapped the car it came out of.
There is a possibility you could of converted the timing belt to a chain drive. The belts stretch out and loose timing around 80,000 miles and you have to replace the timing belt. The timing chain you don't change. Just tighten the slack adjuster to tighten the chain up. Just a thought of an improvement flaw in Subaru's earlier engines. The newer Subaru engines are chain drive for timing.
You are 100% wrong about this engine. Belts don't stretch, chains do. These belts are designed to be changed every 100,000 miles and usually the belt is the last thing to fail. The tensioner starts to leak and loses pressure first or the sealed bearing in one of the idlers fails. This usually doesn't happen until long after the change interval. I would take an EJ with a belt over a chain any day of the week. They are far easier to service and have way less parts to deal with.
@@salspec3381 Okay. I got schooled! Your right and I'm wrong. I'm always wrong, but I'm still learning about Subaru engines. My 2019 Subaru Impreza base model 2.0 L engine has a chain drive. I guess I thought chain drive was better because you don't have to change them like the timing belt ones. It now has over 106,000 miles on it. No issues so far. No plastic cover. It's was a good test to see if your were reading comment. Thank you!
I'm glad you're getting good service out of your car, but if the front of the engine had to come apart it is far more complex. I just saw one the other day and I would not want to touch it.
@@salspec3381 After seeing you take apart and putting the engine back together. I agree 100% it is a complicated engine.
Def not a Subaru guy. Made it a million times harder than it has to be XD. Helpful tip: second to last step is install the bottom left timing idler. Then just pull the pin on the tensioner.
Hello, and thanks for dooing the Subaru because I happened to run into a poor boys 2004 Forester X to get out of the rental cars and stop loosing so much money to rentals.
BUTT: You had the cam shafts off and the pulleys off so can you please include a clarification of what you did to re-align the camshaft to valves to camshaft to the pulleys to positioning the crank before you are showing aligning the belt? Does that Subaru have a balancing shaft like some motots do?
Thanks for the clarification of the 'cerakote' in the second viewing
Cheers😁
No balance shaft in Subarus. The cam pullies are keyed to the camshafts. Otherwise, just turn the pullies until the marks line up. The divers side cams must be turned in a certain direction as they are activating valves when the marks are lined up.
A box of bulldog clips, both medium and large, are a mechanic's best friend. *edit to add* Should've said "bulldog AND binder clips". My bad. Sorry.
Whats a bulldog clip? Mc master carr is my hardware place. And they say your just making up crazy names
@@cayman9873 Office Depot. Assorted sizes of both bulldog and binder clips. No shop should be without 'em.
I think an engineer must have had a very bad nightmare the night before he designed that engine WOW 😂😂
It's really very simple. It's just new to him. They're quite easy to work on. This is no more complicated than any DOHC V6 or V8 and just adds two gears over any DOHC I4.
can you make a ultra efficient eclectic motor
Tried something new. Wrong piston ring gaps. Went back to the old. 😅