It surprises me that it's necessary to convert PCM to analogue before encoding again into DSD. Wouldn't it be theoretically possible to use an algorithm to 'interpolate' two subsequent PCM samples such that the DSD signal fits in-between?
Not only theoretically possible, but the conversion from PCM to DSD doesn't ever require conversion to analog to be converted to DSD. The upsampling to DSD frequencies is just a matter of math, but a significant amount of noise must be added to the PCM source in order to dither to DSD.
I just discovered you, and I have to say, you're doing an insane job. I had a lot of question about sound systems and among all your videos, I have every answer I need. And your way to explain things is easy to understand and really interesting. Thanks for what you do, and keep going :D Cheers from France!
@@octaverecordsanddsdstudios1285 I was just surprised that you seemed to say the benefits were minimal, in the video, and made no mention of the DS. I guess I was expecting you to say that the way the DS does it is better! 😄
What can matter is how many channels the master has. When you take 24 x PCM re-master and mix down this can be to better quality than the previous 2 x PCM mix.
Ascot is well outside London - it's closer to Reading and Slough (home of the original The Office and Betjeman's famous line "Come friendly bombs and fall on Slough! It isn't fit for humans now"). Ascot Raceground opened in 1711 - so it predates the Declaration of Independence by some 60 years....
It's good to know that the FR30 are going to be auditioning at the UK show so hopefully there will be some impartial reviews of them; not to suggest the in-house reviews are biased but some totally unbiased reviews would be good. As for the value of converting PCM to DSD it's hard to say if it's an improvement because, as Paul pointed out the engineers typically remix when remastering. Sometimes this is way better other time not. I recently bought a SACD of 'Dark Side of the Moon' expecting it to sound better than the original CD transfer from analogue but I was very disappointed at how the remastering involved quietening some parts of the recording and exaggerating others. Regardless of whether the DSD sounds better or not the remix is crap.
With DSD distribution to your DAC there is no degrading sample rate conversion or device mixing possible and that ensures your DAC gets the bit perfect music data from the source. DSD not supporting digital audio processing can be seen as an advantage in this way but of course it heavily limits where it’s usable.
It's crap because that also means dynamic loudness and room-eq isn't possible - no matter what audiofools say both is strictly necessary at human volume levels and in 99% of all rooms
There is no way an SACD recorded in DSD (PDM) would sound any better. Vangelis originally recorded the music for Blade Runner in his own studio and the original source for all the material and subsequent remasters was all analog. This means, at best there is an 80 dB signal-to-noise ratio with as much as .25% total harmonic distortion and increase cross-talk between channels. Any digital remasters or high-resolution files would not be able to increase these numbers regardless of whether it was recorded in PCM or DSD (PDM). The original analog multitrack tape was imported into a PCM-based digital audio workstation and remixed utilizing PCM-based digital processing. Contrary to what Paul would have you believe there is no need to leave PCM and doing so will only degrade the signal, not improve it. As Paul points out, it doesn't make any sense in recording the original tapes to DSD or converting the PCM file to DSD, because doing so would just degrade the original source and the original PCM file. Paul is incorrect when he states that PCM has to go through any kind of filter to be converted to DSD (PDM) no filter is required for that conversion, however, in order to dither DSD a large amount of noise has to be added to the PCM file, as well as the original noise from the PCM file dithering is added to the DSD (PDM) file, that is why there is so much degradation going from PCM to DSD. The "filter" Paul refers to is necessary when dealing with the incredible amount of noise in a DSD that needs to be filtered out before conversion of a DSD (PDM) file to another format such as PCM, or before conversion to analog. PCM also uses an anti-aliasing filter but at higher sampling rates such as 24 bit 96kHz, the filter only needs to reach down to just below 192 kHz and at 88.2 kHz sampling rate the filter only needs to reach down to 176 kHz, well outside of the audible range, whereas DSD 64 has to be filtered down to the audible frequency range. The notion that DSD would sound better is just not correct including if the Delta Sigma converter was of optimum quality. Any improvement in the converter would also yield an improvement in the sound of PCM as well.
I remember people asking me if I take a mp3 and convert it to wav would it sound better. Absolutely not. Once it’s in a mediocre format, it stays sounding like that regardless.
I take it you don't have the Audio Fidelity SACD of Blade Runner? I do, and it sounds far better - Kevin Gray is an exceptional engineer, and he did a great job with the mastering of the album. Mastering is all.
@@richardt3371 You are right. I should have been a bit clearer in my post that just simply taking the original analog tapes to DSD does not make the source sound better. However, the remix emaster can improve the quality of the music.
@@JonAnderhub Absolutely - a good point and worth highlighting. Unless an original work is remastered, simply converting it to DSD or to higher resolutions doesn't improve the source. I'm really looking forward to the November SACD release (and the vinyl too) of Thriller, which HAS been remastered from the original analogue source - now that's exciting, as the original mastering was ... well, awful!
Really? For starters, I don’t think Paul has ever claimed to “have his finger on the pulse of orchestral music.” Second, the Blade Runner soundtrack is not orchestral. It was created almost entirely by Vangelis himself using synthesizers. Finally, if we're being pedantic, both of you pronounced Vangelis' name incorrectly. Vangelis himself would pronounce his name with a hard G sound, like in the word "gull", not the soft G most people, including your "jealous" example, use. Watch the start of this video for the correct pronunciation. ua-cam.com/video/pvGNFKZ9wNE/v-deo.html
Great explanation. Sounds like the engineer knew what he was doing if he gave the score/sound track a more natural sound.
well said man, and i sent the question. it's an astounding sounding remaster
🤗👍GREAT EXPLANATION PAUL…WE LOVE 💚 TO BE PRACTICAL …practically all the time 🕰😁😍😍😍
The Blade Runner soundtrack was recorded on analog. Why not sinply go from the original to DSD if that's that sound you're going for?
It surprises me that it's necessary to convert PCM to analogue before encoding again into DSD. Wouldn't it be theoretically possible to use an algorithm to 'interpolate' two subsequent PCM samples such that the DSD signal fits in-between?
Not only theoretically possible, but the conversion from PCM to DSD doesn't ever require conversion to analog to be converted to DSD.
The upsampling to DSD frequencies is just a matter of math, but a significant amount of noise must be added to the PCM source in order to dither to DSD.
I just discovered you, and I have to say, you're doing an insane job. I had a lot of question about sound systems and among all your videos, I have every answer I need.
And your way to explain things is easy to understand and really interesting.
Thanks for what you do, and keep going :D
Cheers from France!
Hey Paul! Would love to come and see you, can you please let us know which show you are going to? Something more than Ascot/Mascot 🤣😵💫
DSD Remastering engine in the Sony TA-ZH1ES is amazing, I cant listen to PCM files like I used to without it.
PS Audio = The best
The show is at the Ascot racecourse. It's a bit of a hike from Mondon, or do I mean London... :))
Doesn't the PS Directstream convert all PCM streams to DSD internally? I recall this being discussed quite extensively when the DS first came out.
Yes, indeed it does!
@@octaverecordsanddsdstudios1285 I was just surprised that you seemed to say the benefits were minimal, in the video, and made no mention of the DS. I guess I was expecting you to say that the way the DS does it is better! 😄
@@geraldb4109 but Peter mentioned "unless the DAC is specially designed to proces DSD Signal" which is the case in PS Audio.
It would be amazing to see you!
What can matter is how many channels the master has. When you take 24 x PCM re-master and mix down this can be to better quality than the previous 2 x PCM mix.
Unlikely
@@Harald_Reindl Very likely!
It's not the PCM that is the issue, it is the engineering that goes into the remix.
@@JonAnderhub tell me something new but downmixing don't magically improve anything
Paul wakes up and puts his pants on one leg at a time. Except when he's done, he makes Octave Records. Someone get him some more phantom cowbell.
Ascot is well outside London - it's closer to Reading and Slough (home of the original The Office and Betjeman's famous line "Come friendly bombs and fall on Slough! It isn't fit for humans now"). Ascot Raceground opened in 1711 - so it predates the Declaration of Independence by some 60 years....
This is the 2nd or 3rd time you have posted this video. Are you out of content?
It's good to know that the FR30 are going to be auditioning at the UK show so hopefully there will be some impartial reviews of them; not to suggest the in-house reviews are biased but some totally unbiased reviews would be good.
As for the value of converting PCM to DSD it's hard to say if it's an improvement because, as Paul pointed out the engineers typically remix when remastering. Sometimes this is way better other time not. I recently bought a SACD of 'Dark Side of the Moon' expecting it to sound better than the original CD transfer from analogue but I was very disappointed at how the remastering involved quietening some parts of the recording and exaggerating others. Regardless of whether the DSD sounds better or not the remix is crap.
You will love London.Can you speak a foriegn language?
English?
With DSD distribution to your DAC there is no degrading sample rate conversion or device mixing possible and that ensures your DAC gets the bit perfect music data from the source. DSD not supporting digital audio processing can be seen as an advantage in this way but of course it heavily limits where it’s usable.
It's crap because that also means dynamic loudness and room-eq isn't possible - no matter what audiofools say both is strictly necessary at human volume levels and in 99% of all rooms
@@Harald_Reindl True, for those of us who know how to optimize a system, of course you are right.
@@ThinkingBetter but why do people spend a fortune of money when they are to dumb to optimize a system and room?
98% of SACD and DSD files are recordings of PCM or inferior analog sources.
There are very few direct-to DSD recordings.
@@JonAnderhub we know that and that's another reason we call you dsd bullshit - it has zero benefits at all but tons of limitations
What?
This could have been a 30 second video... Read question then answer with "NO" - the rest = gobbledygook
There is no way an SACD recorded in DSD (PDM) would sound any better.
Vangelis originally recorded the music for Blade Runner in his own studio and the original source for all the material and subsequent remasters was all analog.
This means, at best there is an 80 dB signal-to-noise ratio with as much as .25% total harmonic distortion and increase cross-talk between channels.
Any digital remasters or high-resolution files would not be able to increase these numbers regardless of whether it was recorded in PCM or DSD (PDM).
The original analog multitrack tape was imported into a PCM-based digital audio workstation and remixed utilizing PCM-based digital processing.
Contrary to what Paul would have you believe there is no need to leave PCM and doing so will only degrade the signal, not improve it.
As Paul points out, it doesn't make any sense in recording the original tapes to DSD or converting the PCM file to DSD, because doing so would just degrade the original source and the original PCM file.
Paul is incorrect when he states that PCM has to go through any kind of filter to be converted to DSD (PDM) no filter is required for that conversion, however, in order to dither DSD a large amount of noise has to be added to the PCM file, as well as the original noise from the PCM file dithering is added to the DSD (PDM) file, that is why there is so much degradation going from PCM to DSD.
The "filter" Paul refers to is necessary when dealing with the incredible amount of noise in a DSD that needs to be filtered out before conversion of a DSD (PDM) file to another format such as PCM, or before conversion to analog.
PCM also uses an anti-aliasing filter but at higher sampling rates such as 24 bit 96kHz, the filter only needs to reach down to just below 192 kHz and at 88.2 kHz sampling rate the filter only needs to reach down to 176 kHz, well outside of the audible range, whereas DSD 64 has to be filtered down to the audible frequency range.
The notion that DSD would sound better is just not correct including if the Delta Sigma converter was of optimum quality.
Any improvement in the converter would also yield an improvement in the sound of PCM as well.
I remember people asking me if I take a mp3 and convert it to wav would it sound better.
Absolutely not. Once it’s in a mediocre format, it stays sounding like that regardless.
I take it you don't have the Audio Fidelity SACD of Blade Runner? I do, and it sounds far better - Kevin Gray is an exceptional engineer, and he did a great job with the mastering of the album. Mastering is all.
@@richardt3371 You are right.
I should have been a bit clearer in my post that just simply taking the original analog tapes to DSD does not make the source sound better.
However, the remix
emaster can improve the quality of the music.
@@JonAnderhub Absolutely - a good point and worth highlighting. Unless an original work is remastered, simply converting it to DSD or to higher resolutions doesn't improve the source. I'm really looking forward to the November SACD release (and the vinyl too) of Thriller, which HAS been remastered from the original analogue source - now that's exciting, as the original mastering was ... well, awful!
UA-cam music to iPhone conversation.
Just saying.😀😎
Just an aside, Paul...you claim to have your finger on the pulse of orchestral music...it's Van-jealous.(pronunciation)
Really?
For starters, I don’t think Paul has ever claimed to “have his finger on the pulse of orchestral music.”
Second, the Blade Runner soundtrack is not orchestral. It was created almost entirely by Vangelis himself using synthesizers.
Finally, if we're being pedantic, both of you pronounced Vangelis' name incorrectly. Vangelis himself would pronounce his name with a hard G sound, like in the word "gull", not the soft G most people, including your "jealous" example, use.
Watch the start of this video for the correct pronunciation. ua-cam.com/video/pvGNFKZ9wNE/v-deo.html
@@gotham61 got em!