I was always confused about reverb and delay for vocals but you made it make sense. I always felt delay sounded like reverb. But alot of videos on youtube they always recommend reverb for "space". But alot of times i feel like it softens the vocals alot. Delay is better
I remember coming to a similar conclusion once, when I forgot to send a vocal track to the reverb (and that's how it got printed on a CD) - only had delay there, and found it out much later, when checking out WHY THE HELL DID IT SOUND SO GOOD:) But seriously speaking, I often find delay tails sounding a tiny bit dry - then I'll send only the delay tails to a nice reverb - it instantly adds that space without unwanted effect of "muddying/clouding". Another reason to use reverb on a vocal track is when the singer is a bit ... "non-resonant", while the music requires more ringing overtones. Some genres require reverb, while some others don't. Some mixers specialize on radio-rock (radio-metal?) genres, while others don't. What Jordan says makes perfect sense, because until we learn to trust ourselves while mixing, and until we develop our instincts, we tend to do things we heard/read are obligatory, like hipassing everything or using reverb even if it honestly sounds better without it.
There are just as may out there who don't know how to use reverb as there are those who don't know how to use delay. Use of delay and/or reverb tends to be very subjective and genre oriented. There are some here who might be too young or just simply not aware that there was a time that reverb was predominant effect in music; then there was a time where certain genres became quite dry and dead; then more delay became more dominant. Anyone who says one is better over the other is either clueless, amateurish, or both. My personal preference is a plate reverb over anything else; but that does not negate using a delay, or going completely dry if that's what works, or that is what is desired. How much is sent from a given track to the effect and the overall volume of the reverb or delay is what matters. Motown, Elektra Records, Bob Crewe, and Al Schmitt, made the use of reverb an art form.
This gives a very good substitute for reverb. Very interesting. I will be giving this a try on the current project I am working on. Thanks for posting!
Really helpful. I knew delays were the key to really nice mixes as I've heard them in everything - but I was slipping back into drowning stuff into one/two reverbs after not mixing for a long while. Cheers for the insight!
Good video. I ALWAYS put a slap back delay on my lead vocal. (It's an old John Lennon trick) Then, I'll normally put a longer throw delay on it timed with the tempo. The slap back makes it sound huge. Same thing with guitar. I'll even do it on a snare sometimes to really give it pop.
Reverb provides a different sound, eq your reverbs, and use them subtly, of course drenching a vocal in reverb Willy nilly is amateur, but you can achieve a clean, open, clear mix while still using reverb to achieve the sound you want
I had to open PT to understand the mono send. I use Logic and it's been a while, but now I recall that you can do mono or stereo sends in PT. Kinda weird, like... there's no equivalent in Logic? Either way, I don't see the need. You can just send from a mono vocal track to a stereo bus.
You're seriously the guy I've been looking for, you produce so many of the bands I love and it's so cool being able to see how their tracks work under the hood
I stopped using reverb on the vocals a long time ago. Nowadays i only use a slap on each vocal individually, with different delay times depending on the pacing of the vocal. I also use a 1/4 stereo delay on the vocal bus. All my delays are on parallel tracks, which allows me to put a subtle reverb on the delay to wash it out a little. I also use a short reverb on my mix bus, also in parallel. I do this to give the feeling of compression and glue, but without killing the dynamics too much. Aside from delays, a slight phase cancelation on the highs sounds very nice on vocals, makes them very lushy without accentuating the harshness and sibilances
Thanks for the great advice, and for sharing a bit of technique. I'd like to share my takeaway from all of this. I've noticed that genres like metal, punk, and others with a lot of musical density and intricacy to them, tend to go with similar subtle use of delay, as opposed to "wall of sound," dream pop, ambient, etc., in which the reverb is often an intrinsic part of the sound or aesthetic. I love reverb, but when it's used instead of delay, I've noticed that there's often one of three tendencies in how it's used in a given spot. The first is related to the aforementioned genres and to something said in the video--the reverb sound itself is featured, although they don't usually slap it on particularly intricate melodic or rhythmic parts, or else such parts aren't found in the song very much at all. The second is to use a bit of pre-delay on the track to keep it from overlapping with the part it's being used on; and even then, it's still usually turned down to keep it out of the way. The third is just to use that same reverb with pre-delay on the whole mix, still turning it down for the same reasons. I think any of these can work just as well, but it's important to examine whether they actually do bring something good or bad to the mix. Sometimes, delay is the better solution, whether singly or stacked. Anyway, thanks again!
Love the tutorials you put out! Have you ever thought of doing a "mixing clean vocals in metal" one? I've been having a hard time trying to make them work and I'm not sure to do, please send help!
Thanks for that, really interesting. I have always found reverb muddies up my mixes yet everyone else seems to use it with great results. The big question is: Do you use a small amount of digital delay on the mixbus, ie over the whole mix?
It works in dense mixes sure, where delays are less noticeable. But I prefer reverb on more spacious mixes. There is no one-size-fits all as you know, so to say that reverb makes a mix amateur is actually a bit of an amateur comment. Great video either way
and who are you? because the guy that said that is a professional and has been for years. surely youre a professional yourself to call anything hes saying amateur.
I guess your mix has gotten better over the years. Delay and reverb are really needed but sometimes one is needed more than the other. If it sounds mushy try mono verbs
@@reverbautopsy9093 also try putting sidechain compression to the reverb (and delay) send is a good idea: when the dry lead vocal is playing the reverb/delay is ducked
Hey man great trick and great music techniques your doing great with your music and it sounds great I also do the same thing you do I run a UA-cam channel to called golden productions and do the same thing you do keep up the good work and keep making great music
God, I really don't like these thin, overenunciated skate punk style vocals in metal, completely ruins an otherwise great song for me. The vocalist is great, but the way the vocal is delivered simply doesn't work for me. Am I being a snob?
you noticed it too ehh? honestly thats not this guys fault, the leader singer probably sings flat.. you are going to have artifacts, unless you spend an eternity adjusting it
Quite obvious especially on the backing vocals, but quite usual in this genre. I find it awful, but yeah it's either a poor editing job, either there wasn't any other solution to make him sing in tune.
I guess Mutt Lange is an Amateur for using the Hell out of reverb..... his entire career... ohh and that Bob Rock guy who engineered the Metallica black album...yeah, he's an Amateur too, because everything he touched had reverb... Reverb doesn't make a mix 'cloudy', that is complete and utter bullshit. the right reverb will make your song sound larger and add space between the instruments. if you overuse anything, yes, it could muddy it up, but you can say the same for ANY effect. and no offense, but this mix sounds like every other mainstream rock mix out there just another carbon copy lacking individuality and differentiation from the sea of mixes out there. the instruments are clear, but thats it, it has no life. maybe it could use a touch of reverb in there.....
Whoa! Sorry to offend you man. Just remember this is MY opinion, experience, and mixing preference... obviously pros including myself use reverb. This is just a case where i usually don't. And of course reverb doesn't automatically make a mix cloudy, you're right. I'm just saying that a common thing I hear from beginner mixers is the over-use of reverb.
aaronrus in my experience recording rock and metal vocalists, using the proper mix of both reverb and delay is the way to go. Depending on the singer and style, I'll either go with more/less of either until the perfect balance is achieved. Always take it on an individual basis. Eqing both verb and delay can make a huge difference in its overall effect. Also compressing verb can be a really cool thing to try for extra effect. Overall I find both tools to be awesome
I am an "Old School" Recording / Mix - Studio and Live Engineer AND a musician. I began my career in the mid-1980s. Back then, most everything was "coated" in reverb, as it certainly had a more pleasing affect on the live or recorded track. Also, as a musician, we often learned to play and sing with reverb (and delays, when we could obtain them / afford them). So, it is even safe to say that many of our playing / singing styles were developed around the use of the (mostly presets) reverbs and delays of that time. Most any band from the 1960's - early 1990's would probably say the same things. I know, as I worked with hundreds of them. Mutt, Bob Rock and a plethora of other well-known engineers (and producers) were well known for their mixes and productions. And, reverb was one of the few tools we had at our disposal that most always made things sound better (when utilized properly / effectively) AND could make things sound "Larger than Life". Personally, I have a large affinity for British Recording Engineers and Producers. Talk about "over-using" reverbs and delays, they (literally) wrote the book on it!! And, while these Professionals that truly stand-out in the History of Rock and Roll (primarily) made heavy use of the tools of their day, it was then merely a part of the "style" and sound of that era. Nothing more. Nothing less. It was not necessarily supposed to be the eternal template for the Rock and Roll sound. I give much credit to these newer, creative and innovative Mix Engineers like Jordan. I have learned a lot from him. And, I do not think he has ever really (intentionally) slammed or disrespected the past artistry of the "Greats" / Legends that helped make "Rock and Roll" what it is. He is bringing just another element and suggestion of how music can be interpreted, produced and burned, for the final listeners to enjoy. I am a "dinosaur" in this business. And, I do not like the sound of most of what I hear today on the Radio. Most of it is "plastic", over-produced, over-mixed and practically non-organic. The "life" of it seems sucked out while being replaced with a fake replica. We traded in phrases of "Oh Girl", "oooo - Yeah, Yeah, Yeah" and direct / indirect "love songs", for a limited myriad of 2000's Emotional Teenager Angst / Anger that most always emphasizes suffering, struggles, depression, and on the verge of suicide with most every song. So, we came from that "whispy", airy, dynamic sound of "Love" and being "Cool" to the ranks of interpersonal fear, rage, anger and chronic depression. This "up-front", in your face, desperate blowing / screaming angst would not obtain the same emotional intensity with a large, standard-stock plated reverb. Musicians and Mix Engineers / Producers of this "newer" music, want a completely "in your face", "don't ignore me", "I'll Fuck You UP if You Try To Look Me In the Eye" kind of sound / presentation, that has really caught on. And, it is not going anywhere for a good while. The Music "Industry" will milk it for all it is "worth", literally. Just as they did, until Hair Bands were eaten by Grunge. It is merely the "Cycle of Life" in this "Business of Music".
I was always confused about reverb and delay for vocals but you made it make sense. I always felt delay sounded like reverb. But alot of videos on youtube they always recommend reverb for "space". But alot of times i feel like it softens the vocals alot. Delay is better
I remember coming to a similar conclusion once, when I forgot to send a vocal track to the reverb (and that's how it got printed on a CD) - only had delay there, and found it out much later, when checking out WHY THE HELL DID IT SOUND SO GOOD:) But seriously speaking, I often find delay tails sounding a tiny bit dry - then I'll send only the delay tails to a nice reverb - it instantly adds that space without unwanted effect of "muddying/clouding". Another reason to use reverb on a vocal track is when the singer is a bit ... "non-resonant", while the music requires more ringing overtones. Some genres require reverb, while some others don't. Some mixers specialize on radio-rock (radio-metal?) genres, while others don't.
What Jordan says makes perfect sense, because until we learn to trust ourselves while mixing, and until we develop our instincts, we tend to do things we heard/read are obligatory, like hipassing everything or using reverb even if it honestly sounds better without it.
Great tip! I can’t believe I’ve screwed around with reverb this long without knowing this!
There are just as may out there who don't know how to use reverb as there are those who don't know how to use delay. Use of delay and/or reverb tends to be very subjective and genre oriented. There are some here who might be too young or just simply not aware that there was a time that reverb was predominant effect in music; then there was a time where certain genres became quite dry and dead; then more delay became more dominant.
Anyone who says one is better over the other is either clueless, amateurish, or both. My personal preference is a plate reverb over anything else; but that does not negate using a delay, or going completely dry if that's what works, or that is what is desired. How much is sent from a given track to the effect and the overall volume of the reverb or delay is what matters.
Motown, Elektra Records, Bob Crewe, and Al Schmitt, made the use of reverb an art form.
Mate you are awesome! I'm glad I came across you! you don't over complicate things at all.
This gives a very good substitute for reverb. Very interesting. I will be giving this a try on the current project I am working on. Thanks for posting!
Really helpful. I knew delays were the key to really nice mixes as I've heard them in everything - but I was slipping back into drowning stuff into one/two reverbs after not mixing for a long while. Cheers for the insight!
Good video. I ALWAYS put a slap back delay on my lead vocal. (It's an old John Lennon trick) Then, I'll normally put a longer throw delay on it timed with the tempo. The slap back makes it sound huge. Same thing with guitar. I'll even do it on a snare sometimes to really give it pop.
Reverb provides a different sound, eq your reverbs, and use them subtly, of course drenching a vocal in reverb Willy nilly is amateur, but you can achieve a clean, open, clear mix while still using reverb to achieve the sound you want
Maybe try putting sidechain compression to the reverb (and delay) send so that when the dry lead vocal is playing the reverb/delay is ducked
I had to open PT to understand the mono send. I use Logic and it's been a while, but now I recall that you can do mono or stereo sends in PT. Kinda weird, like... there's no equivalent in Logic? Either way, I don't see the need. You can just send from a mono vocal track to a stereo bus.
You're seriously the guy I've been looking for, you produce so many of the bands I love and it's so cool being able to see how their tracks work under the hood
Good video, very helpful! After the delay do you add a High Pass and do a large roll-off... up to 400 Hz etc? Thanks
hey, I would like to check some of the songs you have mixed , just to check the reverb there
here's a playlist with some of my work: ua-cam.com/video/GZ7W3JvZBJQ/v-deo.html
Excellent video
This is nice, though does this delay has a high pass filter as well..?
Your videos are so good, that I forget like 😍
I stopped using reverb on the vocals a long time ago. Nowadays i only use a slap on each vocal individually, with different delay times depending on the pacing of the vocal. I also use a 1/4 stereo delay on the vocal bus. All my delays are on parallel tracks, which allows me to put a subtle reverb on the delay to wash it out a little. I also use a short reverb on my mix bus, also in parallel. I do this to give the feeling of compression and glue, but without killing the dynamics too much. Aside from delays, a slight phase cancelation on the highs sounds very nice on vocals, makes them very lushy without accentuating the harshness and sibilances
Thanks for the great advice, and for sharing a bit of technique. I'd like to share my takeaway from all of this.
I've noticed that genres like metal, punk, and others with a lot of musical density and intricacy to them, tend to go with similar subtle use of delay, as opposed to "wall of sound," dream pop, ambient, etc., in which the reverb is often an intrinsic part of the sound or aesthetic.
I love reverb, but when it's used instead of delay, I've noticed that there's often one of three tendencies in how it's used in a given spot. The first is related to the aforementioned genres and to something said in the video--the reverb sound itself is featured, although they don't usually slap it on particularly intricate melodic or rhythmic parts, or else such parts aren't found in the song very much at all. The second is to use a bit of pre-delay on the track to keep it from overlapping with the part it's being used on; and even then, it's still usually turned down to keep it out of the way. The third is just to use that same reverb with pre-delay on the whole mix, still turning it down for the same reasons. I think any of these can work just as well, but it's important to examine whether they actually do bring something good or bad to the mix. Sometimes, delay is the better solution, whether singly or stacked.
Anyway, thanks again!
I hope you make a tutorial for this vocal effect
Thank you
Great tip. Thanks for the insight and for sharing your knowledge Jordan!
Super! Super! Super! I was looking for this explanation. Thanks.👍
This is a game changer! Thanks!
love the drum mix as well.. really punchy and fat.. would love to know how u mixed them.. and if they are real recorded drums
I did not record them, but yes they are live drums with samples blended in
Nice Jordan!!
Thank you
Oh fuck you're mixing new Afterimage? Boiiiii Kyle is my GUY! Stokedddd
Love the tutorials you put out! Have you ever thought of doing a "mixing clean vocals in metal" one? I've been having a hard time trying to make them work and I'm not sure to do, please send help!
You did Pursue, too? NICE!
Fucking Kyle is such a talented guy. What a voice
Sir a big fan of yours...can you please tell how to delay acoustic guitars or do i have to delay the same as you put in this vedio for vocals..?
good teacher
Do you recommend replacing reverb with delay in every track possible?
have always used reverb on vocals,untill I start sending delays on vocals the add a reverb on the delay. end of case. it shines
@ 6:08 I can hear multiple repeats, about 4. What's up with that? I thought you said only one repeat?
He automated his second delay to come in on that specific word.
So good man
Question what are you using on your mix buss besides the ssl compressor for glue and what’s the other plugin and what’s it doing ????
Is it much different than make a duplicate of the track and delaying it by 20ms (Haas effect)? Maybe also -10 cent pitch the L and +10cent R?
No that would just give you a poopy faux stereo sound
Great vid bro.
Great explanation!!! Thanx
i'm not use pro tools/ which plugin i can this tricks? plz
Any stereo delay, it doesn't really matter which as long as you can adjust the delay times independently.
Just curious as to why your vocal tracks are going to a vocal bus but their effects returns are going straight to the mix bus?
That was great! Thank you!
You mentioned you use the delay on guitars as well. Is it the same way and settings you use on the vocals or different?
Thanks mate
Where can I find the song your mixing
Oooo I like how you're using a song I really enjoy listening to in this video lol. The Afterimage are awesome
Would you mind to tell me the name of the sonf? Jordan said the band's name but I'm not able to find the song...
@@zeclomal2265 Really late but only just watched this for my own vocals! The song was "Pursue", sadly the band broke up a couple years ago.
@@JayFFAFAlesanaES They're brand of sacrifice now, a bit different and not really my thing, but still impressive stuff
@@camdenwyeth316 Yeah, I know and not my thing either. It went well for them but it shows that most people don't have much taste. -shrugs-
nice . it really helpfull.
Great video! The technique that you use is that you are recreating the close reflections of that take to make it fell into a more real space, right?
Thanks for that, really interesting. I have always found reverb muddies up my mixes yet everyone else seems to use it with great results. The big question is: Do you use a small amount of digital delay on the mixbus, ie over the whole mix?
Can you use this on amp sim guitars for subtle reverb and life as well?
What is the doubler plugin that you mention for the harmony? Is that plugin actually being used to create the harmony?
It's SoundToys Little MicroShift as a send. Glues the BV's together!
harryheck thanks dude!
thanks
does this goes for the reggae genre
It works in dense mixes sure, where delays are less noticeable. But I prefer reverb on more spacious mixes. There is no one-size-fits all as you know, so to say that reverb makes a mix amateur is actually a bit of an amateur comment. Great video either way
I would say pretty much exactly the same.
and who are you? because the guy that said that is a professional and has been for years. surely youre a professional yourself to call anything hes saying amateur.
@@CJJ928 In fairness this makes sense for metal, which is what he works on, but ut wouldn't work great for many other genres.
Hey Jordan, which band is this? Sounds great. Thanks!
The Afterimage, the song is Pursue
I guess your mix has gotten better over the years. Delay and reverb are really needed but sometimes one is needed more than the other. If it sounds mushy try mono verbs
Mono reverbs are great to combat muddiness. Even better if it has a built-in EQ to take out the bass frequencies.
@@reverbautopsy9093 also try putting sidechain compression to the reverb (and delay) send is a good idea: when the dry lead vocal is playing the reverb/delay is ducked
how much do charge to mix
would you say Radiohead used this same effect in the backing vocals at the end of Karma Police?
The Afterimage. Rip in peace
I notice that all of your vocals have automation on them. Do you write all of your vocal automations yourself, or do you use a vocal rider plug in?
i don't really like delay TBH
..........but my client always said "where's Reverb" and always ask for MORE MORE MORE reverb #duh
Hey man great trick and great music techniques your doing great with your music and it sounds great I also do the same thing you do I run a UA-cam channel to called golden productions and do the same thing you do keep up the good work and keep making great music
❤️👏
French people use a lot of reverb on vocals. The modern mixing enggs at least.
I would take the “no reverb, cause that’s what amateurs do” with a grain of salt.
I would not call CLA an amateur by any means.
Or just use SoundToys MicroShift.
And what you end up with, is a super compressed track of noise, with no appeal what so ever!
God, I really don't like these thin, overenunciated skate punk style vocals in metal, completely ruins an otherwise great song for me. The vocalist is great, but the way the vocal is delivered simply doesn't work for me. Am I being a snob?
Aacording to this guy legendary lx480 is useless.
I've watched many of his videos and I don't remember him saying that; can you show me where?
Hardcore vox with verb? I am sure you don't, but who knows these days.
Can anyone else hear those pitch correction artifacts in the lead vocal? Pretty gross.
you noticed it too ehh? honestly thats not this guys fault, the leader singer probably sings flat.. you are going to have artifacts, unless you spend an eternity adjusting it
Quite obvious especially on the backing vocals, but quite usual in this genre.
I find it awful, but yeah it's either a poor editing job, either there wasn't any other solution to make him sing in tune.
@@aaronrus You're definitely a pro mixer, on UA-cam trying to troll this channel 🤣🤣🤣
Sounds fine in the mix IMO so it doesn't really matter.
I guess Mutt Lange is an Amateur for using the Hell out of reverb..... his entire career... ohh and that Bob Rock guy who engineered the Metallica black album...yeah, he's an Amateur too, because everything he touched had reverb...
Reverb doesn't make a mix 'cloudy', that is complete and utter bullshit. the right reverb will make your song sound larger and add space between the instruments. if you overuse anything, yes, it could muddy it up, but you can say the same for ANY effect.
and no offense, but this mix sounds like every other mainstream rock mix out there just another carbon copy lacking individuality and differentiation from the sea of mixes out there. the instruments are clear, but thats it, it has no life. maybe it could use a touch of reverb in there.....
Whoa! Sorry to offend you man. Just remember this is MY opinion, experience, and mixing preference... obviously pros including myself use reverb. This is just a case where i usually don't. And of course reverb doesn't automatically make a mix cloudy, you're right. I'm just saying that a common thing I hear from beginner mixers is the over-use of reverb.
aaronrus in my experience recording rock and metal vocalists, using the proper mix of both reverb and delay is the way to go. Depending on the singer and style, I'll either go with more/less of either until the perfect balance is achieved. Always take it on an individual basis. Eqing both verb and delay can make a huge difference in its overall effect. Also compressing verb can be a really cool thing to try for extra effect. Overall I find both tools to be awesome
Hardcore Music Studio For the style of rock you mix, I think your delay technique is very appropriate and sounds good
aaronrus also mutt Lange is awesome :)
I am an "Old School" Recording / Mix - Studio and Live Engineer AND a musician. I began my career in the mid-1980s. Back then, most everything was "coated" in reverb, as it certainly had a more pleasing affect on the live or recorded track. Also, as a musician, we often learned to play and sing with reverb (and delays, when we could obtain them / afford them). So, it is even safe to say that many of our playing / singing styles were developed around the use of the (mostly presets) reverbs and delays of that time. Most any band from the 1960's - early 1990's would probably say the same things. I know, as I worked with hundreds of them.
Mutt, Bob Rock and a plethora of other well-known engineers (and producers) were well known for their mixes and productions. And, reverb was one of the few tools we had at our disposal that most always made things sound better (when utilized properly / effectively) AND could make things sound "Larger than Life". Personally, I have a large affinity for British Recording Engineers and Producers. Talk about "over-using" reverbs and delays, they (literally) wrote the book on it!!
And, while these Professionals that truly stand-out in the History of Rock and Roll (primarily) made heavy use of the tools of their day, it was then merely a part of the "style" and sound of that era. Nothing more. Nothing less. It was not necessarily supposed to be the eternal template for the Rock and Roll sound.
I give much credit to these newer, creative and innovative Mix Engineers like Jordan. I have learned a lot from him. And, I do not think he has ever really (intentionally) slammed or disrespected the past artistry of the "Greats" / Legends that helped make "Rock and Roll" what it is. He is bringing just another element and suggestion of how music can be interpreted, produced and burned, for the final listeners to enjoy.
I am a "dinosaur" in this business. And, I do not like the sound of most of what I hear today on the Radio. Most of it is "plastic", over-produced, over-mixed and practically non-organic. The "life" of it seems sucked out while being replaced with a fake replica. We traded in phrases of "Oh Girl", "oooo - Yeah, Yeah, Yeah" and direct / indirect "love songs", for a limited myriad of 2000's Emotional Teenager Angst / Anger that most always emphasizes suffering, struggles, depression, and on the verge of suicide with most every song.
So, we came from that "whispy", airy, dynamic sound of "Love" and being "Cool" to the ranks of interpersonal fear, rage, anger and chronic depression. This "up-front", in your face, desperate blowing / screaming angst would not obtain the same emotional intensity with a large, standard-stock plated reverb. Musicians and Mix Engineers / Producers of this "newer" music, want a completely "in your face", "don't ignore me", "I'll Fuck You UP if You Try To Look Me In the Eye" kind of sound / presentation, that has really caught on. And, it is not going anywhere for a good while. The Music "Industry" will milk it for all it is "worth", literally. Just as they did, until Hair Bands were eaten by Grunge.
It is merely the "Cycle of Life" in this "Business of Music".