DWC Vs Kratky Hydroponic For Growing Lettuce
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- Опубліковано 17 лис 2018
- Hidden Harvest Grow Lights: / @northeastslingshot1664
Matt Garver: / @mattgarver
Peter Stanley: / peter79813
Hydroponics
DWC
Deep Water Culture
Kratky Hydroponic
Non-Circulating Hydroponics - Навчання та стиль
I did the same experiment with a Desert Rose. The Kratky mason jar plant grew bigger and bloomed 2 months quicker than the DWC.
Note to those calling this experiment "bad science":
It's not automatically bad science, per se. Could the experiment be improved? Obviously, as is implied several times throughout the video. The results simply show that in this single, 1 to 1 comparison trial, DWC mod versus Kratky, in a relatively cold room, provided similar nutrients and light levels (and visually similar sprouts), the outcome was that the plant growing in the Kratky method performed better. While it's obvious that this was an extremely small test group, I believe this experiment still has considerable merit.
Yes, it could be argued that the cold ambient temperatures caused the DWC plant roots to remain at a relatively cooler temperature than its Kratky counterpart, due to the circulation of ambient air created by the air pump and stone. Personally, this is my suspicion. However, this may simply show a possible strength of Kratky method versus DWC in cooler temperatures when growing short cycle, leafy greens. To be sure this is the case, one would need to do another test that included tracking nutrient solution temperatures throughout the experiment and comparing the results based on ambient temperature and method utilized. The experiment could also be replicated in a warmer environment, to see if temperature was the critical/limiting factor.
Additionally, it is also possible that this modified DWC method behaves differently enough from true DWC that the results may not accurately represent outcomes using traditional DWC methodologies. In most DWC I've seen and used, DWC required roots always completely submerged and nutrient solution aerated. This is typically achieved through floating raft systems or DWC "bucket" systems utilizing float valves and additional solution reservoirs to keep the nutrient solution completely topped off at all times. If someone wanted, they could perform this type of experiment with those changes. I'd be interested to see if the results would be any different.
In the end, there is no point in attributing emotions to small sample experiments such as this. It's clear that this in not a completely comprehensive, long-term, exhaustive study of the two methods (stated several times throughout the video.) DWC does not need our appreciation, nor does the Kratky method. There is also no prize (real or imagined) in championing one method over another as being objectively superior in all situations. Having been directly involved in hydroponic and aquaponic systems for years, I can personally state that both methods (DWC and Kratky) have their strengths and weaknesses, from both a production and financing perspective. In my experience, Kratky is often superior to DWC when it comes to small scale, short life, fast growth, leafy greens and herbs (leaf lettuces, basil, etc.) Why pay to buy the pumps/tubing/airstones/float valves/reservoir tank/floating rafts/etc and use additional electricity to aerate nutrient solution if growing two or three small heads of lettuce is the goal, and there is enough dissolved oxygen or oxygen available to the roots suspended in the air gap to grow in an extremely healthy fashion using the Kratky method? Kratky is simple and very approachable for this type of usage. Kratky does, however, often encounter considerable trouble when trying to grow larger, longer-life plants such as peppers and tomatoes, as the growing solution often needs refilling , and oxygenation via air pump is generally necessary (no longer Kratky at that point.) This is where DWC really shines, as this method excels at growing these types of long-life plants that need a constant supply of nutrient solution and considerable amounts of dissolved oxygen to grow well over long periods of time. For these applications, DWC is almost always superior.
In my opinion, although this experiment was not extensively comprehensive and the test group was small, it is still quite good science. For the practical purposes of a person getting started in hydroponics by simply growing a single head of lettuce under a grow light, I think this is a valuable guide that demonstrates the strengths and simplicity of the Kratky method of hydroponics.
It's fake science
Great job
Now just publish it.
Mikael can you please understand that no one cares what you think either. And honestly a crude comment about him living in his moms basement shows how immature you really are.
TLDR
I’m not sure why anyone would get upset, your videos are experimental & informative. Just discovered your channel & love your videos
Because there is such a thing as bad science. The cold temps completely sabotaged the DWC method. This isn't being biased, it is indeed fact.
@@akamaster09 what does dwc stand for
@@airsoftspeedy deep water culture. You can see it here ua-cam.com/video/3pXlNTDUPAY/v-deo.html
@@akamaster09 idiot
@@akamaster09 cold water is your friend people buy water chillers for a reason
Rematch ! Rematch! Rematch!!!!
😂😂
Haha the power of KRACKY!!
You have been very humble and transparent. I liked it. I enjoy all your video clips. Quite informative. Thank you.
Regardless of the outcome failing to meet expectations, it may provide support to the argument that the Kratky method is probably the easiest 'ponic method being almost failsafe and probably the one for a first-timer to try.
This is so true. For a beginner who is just dipping their toes into hydroponics, the fact that you can get a good outcome with such a basic setup is a huge confidence boost to experiment further.
Agreed! Very cool to see
You can say kratky method is for these of us who don't want a big setup or have the room to grow big hydroponic systems year round or just in winter with these veggies that do will in a kratky setup. Like herb, mint, and leafy green like lettuce, spinach, kale ,etc.. would do well in something like this short-term growing.
He's putting out a new video today! But that is amazing, I never would have guessed that!
That's a surprising result!
You're a fantastic teacher, I love your videos!
Mr.Starr, I want to thank you for taking the time to make this video and sharing! I honestly think that it was just the seedling, that had its difficulty from the beginning. I don’t think the experiment had flaws. Maybe just do 4 plants the exact same way. I’m saying this because it just is the luck of the draw with the seedling and the plant, contrary to everyone’s negative comments. Cheers to you my friend for taking the time to share with everyone. I hope everyone values all the hard work it takes to make a video like this and share. Stay safe and healthy, you definitely gained another subscriber here!
I find these videos helpful. Yes, there's a lot of variables that aren't considered, but at least it's a start and helpful. Much appreciated. Thanks.
love the experiment and all the helpful critiques. This was a real comprehensive science lesson.
Thanks Khang!! Great video. Interesting results! Hope your well.😊🥗
Great video. KRATKY REALLY DOES WORK! Mike Vanduzee taught me real well and for the first time after many years of trying, I ate my first bowl full using his KRATKY method! Khang, you taught me how and Mike taught me how to perfect it. I thank both of you for all you do!
I have to say I like watching your videos they are very informative and help me and my wife growing peppers and lettuce ty.
I love your containers that you used thanks
Thank you Mr. Starr. You make things look simpler than they really are. Please kindly repeat the experiment with multiple lettuce plants on larger DWC container like those of Mr. Peter Stanley and compare to Krakty method multiple plants as well. Thanks.
Just found you channel. Thanks for all the time you took and sharing the information. I've seen that the aerator will change the ph on the water if to much air. Got my subscription✌🏼
Love the experiments as always Khang! Keep rockin' it!
It's not a perfect experiment, but then again, even the genetics from one seed to the next will never be perfectly the same...so therefore even the best of experiments under controlled situation would never end up perfectly the same.
Khang, I enjoy your videos and thanks for the mention. With Kratky, the plants initially deal with a lot of water. They respond by pumping water out their leaves through transpiration and putting on lots of vegetation. This increases the amount of roots exposed to air for gas exchange. The DWC plant has gas exchange provided by the air pump and in your video makes a tighter head of lettuce. Over more days, the DWC lettuce will likely be 15-20% heavier and more compact. Maybe the DWC plant would have been closer in comparison if the air gap around the net cup and the aeration were adjusted. Rockwool holds a lot of water, and the constant splashing permitted the lettuce in DWC to stay hydrated, while the Kratky plant had to keep reaching with it's roots to get water.
Khang Star, I have just started my first hydroponic grow, thankyou for the information
WOW A NOTICEABLE IMPROVEMENT WOW I AM SO EXCITED TO START THIS METHOD
Thanks a lot for sharing these precious & helpful info. I'll buy some seedlings and get "kraking"!
Great experiment. Take care. I did expect the dwc to be bigger. Surprised me.
That is awesome….. I just started the Kratky method, if mine does half as yours I would be happy. Thank for the video.
I watched the whole play list on this thank you let the growing begin 🏆👍🏻🌱🌶🙏🏻
My guess is moving water disturbed the roots way too much. Your setup was creating big bubbles which moved the water like tsunami. An air stone should have been used to divide the air into fine bubbles like champagne. You should try with a sump pump that periodically pumps water up and drain back down through the root system or use a water mister to mist the roots but keep the water level below the root system. I have seen other people's comparisons and they have just the opposite results. The benefit of the Kratky method is it saves energy, i.e., no need to use any electricity, but at only a slightly less vigorous growth. I believe your DWC was pretty much drowned the whole time.
Great suggestion! I will try again in the future with an airstone with small, fine bubbles.
Khang Starr You’re a really good guy, aren’t you? Thanks for your work.
@@heartlandlight6862 khang starr spreading love in the gardening community. today I'm grateful for you khang. not sure if youll see this but Ive been binging your videos all day and dang what a treat keep it up friend
You're probably correct. Great points.
Kosherpork? But how?
great, until today I thought that, with aerator you got unbeatable results .. I will implement your idea .. thank you very much .. greetings from Argentina.
something for you to consider and try again, when Airaiting in such a small container you may have been over saturating the roots with the air bubbles bursting on the surface splashing water.
I belive a simple air pump in the Kratsky setup would prevent bacteria over longer time, as in beyond 30 days.
On the DWC I think your supposed to leave 1” of air space between the bottom of the net pot to top of water level. This will allow for air and oxygen circulation. Great video!
Happy Thanksgiving!! Love your videos!! 🥰
Awesome video as usual!! Nice to have someone experiment with things and record for people to learn from. Helps me alot. Thanks man🤙
Cool experiment. Just starting to learn about non soil alternatives.
I am a psych major, don't stress out about not being perfectly scientific.😎😎😎
Personally, I think your experiment speaks for itself!!! Fantasti!!!!👍😁💖
Great experiment, very informative 👍🏼 thanks
The cook air and bubbles have damaged the roots, which are not really designed to be getting agitated constantly. Great simple experiment
surprising !! Thanks for the video
Fascinating. I'll stop hankering after an air pump system now!
Both have place and I use both. Great video
i didn't know you had a channel! hell yeah!
Hi Khang! No need for all the apologies! Your experiments and videos are all appreciated. The temperature in the garage probably had something to do with the outcome. Nice job and thank you for your work. It IS appreciated and helpful :)
Wow! Very nice experiment!
thank you for your videos. i really appreciate it!!!!
15:22, yes I think the key to doing an experiment like this would have been to add maybe 3-5 plants for each method, it would have given a more decisive conclusion. Still the experiment was very interesting, before you started I too thought the DWC method would be the bigger producer...the reason I thought so was the possibility of the nutrients settling versus the bubbler moving nutrients. Thanks for do this!
Thumbs up khang , great experiment Thank you for sharing I learned a lot from you.
WOW...in theory.. it would seem that the DWC would have been slightly larger than the plain kratky...but awesome experiment! ..I love teaching the basic Kratky method to beginners..they are always so amazed at how it works. I'd say if you have time and like to do this.. a larger number of side by sides in the two formats would be great.
It’s so satisfying cutting the rock wool
Good job and yes do it again with 3 plants each
I have an adjustable air pump and I discovered that too much aeration causes slow growth in my plants. When I slowed the air pump to just barely bubbling, the plants took off and started growing much faster.
From what I can assess, the flaw in the experiment was using the pump before significant growth started, as it may have also pumped in cooler air than the other plant had to suffer. Add also that the pump may have supplied CO from outside that will kill anything. But the Kratky method looks like a great start up system while building a large Aquaponics system for my purposes. :-)
I think I'd keep the pump in a controlled temperature and keep growing. The smaller one may just catch up by 60 days now that roots are hitting the water well. I think the aerated water culture plant may have had an issue. Worth an update.
thank you. thats great science. there is no flaw i seen the exact same results with peppers and tomatoes. i think the real benefit from dwc is to keep the solution from going anaerobic leading to pythium.
I have a larger setup using DWC...for 3 fig trees and an experimental basil plant. Water level is barley half the container. Roots dangle in the air mostly and my bubbles are at medium level with a long air stone & an air adjusting attachment when needed. Roots up higher get bubble backsplash, basically.
When they barely had roots I brought the level right to the tips of those roots, bubbles at a reasonable level due to the amount of water in container (medium level), it stirred, but the airstone made super fine bubbles. Not enough to bother them. Your lack of space, a good air stone, and adequate space for the veggies roots growth, needs to be redone, your bubbles you have are just forcing water around and it is too much stress on the plant. Hence why your other plant did so well. I also know that whatever fertilizer you're using will also make a difference in plant size. Ive tried quite a few, even a root booster later on for one of my other experiments.
My 3in basil turned into 19inches tall, and my fig trees are nearing 3ft, when they were barely 7in tall. Again, with what I am using...(im sure my root booster helped), bigger roots, bigger plant. 😉 My 3rd year growing plants, from using steer manuer and soil mix outside, to indoor hydro.
SideNote: Not all species of basil like hydroponics. 😅 especially the purple ones. LoL.
Yes more plants and try experiment again.
just wanna see another video
Thank you so much for sharing all of your work with us.What are the various materials you can plant in besides rock wool?
I would say it is a temp thing. Air pump constantly putting cold air around the roots. Maybe in still water there is a microclimate of warmer water around the roots.
Looking at your test I see the intake vent is right at the back plant which is also being cooled by the dwc air stone. It could be that the water and direct airflow temp was much lower then the plant closer to the front of the tent. My .02C Cheers and happy growing :)
Interesting result
Can you repeat the experiment with more plants? Sometimes seedlings that look the same grow at much different rates. Sometimes some of the plants grow poorly made due to the plant’s genetics in the seed. A higher sample size will probably give you more accurate results. I agree with you that adding air to the number should have produced better growth.
To avoid the chance of damaging the roots of the seedlings, you could Sprout the seeds in the rock wool cubes instead of in soil.
The Rockwool cubes are like, nearly the price of a head of lettuce. I suppose you could buy in bulk, but it's something to consider
@@jeffhooper3447 not sure where you are buying your rockwool cubes, but 1.5 inch grodan cubes breakdown to about 20 cents each. Plus, they are reusuable if you just throw them in the oven at 500 degrees for 15 minutes. I cannot get lettuce for 20 cents.
@@jeffhooper3447you need to shop around or get e second opinion my dude. Rockwool prices in the right place make it disposable.
Blooming pot garden I like your video easy and great
Veryy nice, love it.Go Kratky.
Thanks for the video! Where did you get those containers? They're perfect for what I need.
Khang, I don't remember if I commented when this video fitst came out, but I'm convinced the DWC method grew so slowly because the air pump was actually chilling the roots in your 55 degree garage. If you try it in summer, I bet the results will be reversed.
I believe the dwc method is better for rooting clones/cuttings, because it has a nice strong stem to support the plant. For the same reasoning, I see videos of kratky being better for seedling because they're still so delicate that the movement of the water can be too much for a plant that can't feed itself from established leaves yet.
I've seen this result happening in a lot of comparisons for seedlings and cuttings
awesome video thank you
Nice video Khang! Lettuce is a great fit for a one-gallon Kraty system. Not sure why the DWC didn't perform as well.
Hello. I am Kevin from Mauritius. I subscribed your channel which i find very informative. I am new to hydroponics and your video helps a lot. I wish to ask you what percentage of the root must be submerged into the water and how much must stay above the water? I am growing lettuce. This information is rare and almost none of video i watched on UA-cam mentions this.
Thank you
I started getting into hydroponics after following your videos on pepper pruning/lettuce growing and seeing they were Kratky . Now I have built a vertical rotating tower set up to hold 144 net cups in a 14sf area in my sun room. Got my first hydroponic tower system in place and have some sprouts in there now. Hoping to see some progress in a couple weeks. Thanks for your videos, I'll keep watching!
Would love to see your tower!
Its still in the infant phase with growing since I just finished it and planted a week ago. Also still playing with nutrients to see which blend I like. I'm currently using flora series but I also have 3 part Master blend on its way. So much to learn!! ua-cam.com/video/4Ao9anloLlU/v-deo.html
I know this is an old video but I love revisiting all of your old videos, the experiment vids as well as the educational vids. I just have one question: What kinds of jars are those? I like the fact that they have a screw-on lid. It makes it more convenient to move w/o worry of having the lid lift off.
Hidden Harvest Brads lights work great everyone. I have two and can attest to them👍🏻
I'm growing reapers kratky method. Left them in soil for a while, they were pretty dormant. Once I changed hydro they are growing great. I did buy a pump to try but have not used it yet. I wonder if the air flow bothers the roots moving too much? Best two out of three experiments would be better khang? And I do understand you saying not a full proof experiment. Excellent video though. Thank you!
Nice experiment.
Shortfalls-The pump was set up too early,as it was creating air bubbles right over the roots which probably must have impeded uniform water absorption by the plant.
Also there was significant tip burn on both the plants due to excessive lighting.
Having said that, it is scientifically proven that having an air supply into the nutrient solution increases yield by atleast 10-20 %.Therefore,DWC is more advantageous than kratky.
It was a thoughtful experience, well done.👍
Thanks for awesome content. Can you please let me know if you have tried the same experiment with fruit bearing plants and whether the results are same?
Really quality video. I liked a lot your Channel. I’m in my way start with those methods so I’m learning and you’re videos help me a lot. Although I prefer dwc. One more thing is a question actually. for the kratky method, do you move the water to give the roots oxygen or you just leave the bucket all the cycle ?
Great videos! I've just discovered about kratky method but I'm concerned about mosquitoes. Do u face any mosquitoes issue? How do u resolve it?
I'm a bit weary of my lettuce feeding leaf miners instead of feeding me, so if I can grow clean, pest-free lettuce indoors as easily as this, I'll try it for sure.
This is surprising in books oxygenation in dwc says it would grow better but it is the other way around in this experiment. Very interesting.
Usually it will. I think in the next test, I will put an air stone that creates finer bubbles like most people suggested. I'm sure that will change the results.
Hi, I would suggest that the first step to a better experimental setup is to use more than one plant per condition! I would suggest something like 3-4 individuals.
Late response, but my immediate observation is that the turbulence caused by aeration is hindering root development. This may be less of a concern with a weaker flow or wider basin. As always, great video, thanks again!
I thought that too, i just added a pump to my kratky jar and realised the pump was disturbing the root alot so switched it off
Thanks for doing the video. Very helpful. ? Do you fill the liquid, just touching the bottom of the rock wool cube, leaving an air gap. Thanks Joe. Again thanks I’m Learning a lot.
I have been gardening for 15 years and I knew about kratky a long time ago, but just tried it recently. It's amazing. The only negative is that the lettuce isn't quite as crunchy. What varieties produce a crunchier lettuce?
I know you don't have much room, but a bigger sample set would tell the story better. Thanks for sharing!
I had 6 Black Seeded Simpsons in a mortar box last Summer. I threw in an air stone with a small aquarium pump. As I moved the stone around the tank, the roots closest to it did the worst. I finally yanked the stone, and went full Kratky for a good harvest. I don't think there was anything wrong with your test. I think that lettuce just doesn't like the bubbles.
I think the DWC method is slower because the air pump constantly pump the cool air into the container cause it to grow slower.
U are awesome dude 👍💪
aeration cools off the plant, so if its cold, then dwc get it even worse
This, the combination of the extremely low temps plus the aeration and misting will cool the DWC roots even more. If the temperatures were in the higher end, then the DWC would probably be healthier and grow better
I was thinking maybe the diluted oxygen could be a little bit high because the low temperature of the water. High rates of oxygen are toxic and cause stress to the plants.
dick dickenson and it also disturbs the roots
@@alessandravgs I have never heard of too much oxygen in the root zone being toxic... As long as their not devoid of water and left in the open air.
This was an awesome video thanks. New subscriber here
Ive never done dwc, but maybe the stone was too much agitation for that particular plant. Or maybe it didnt get same amt. Light of light dispersion. I was rooting for kratky. The less electricity used the better. Maybe the little one was just weaker from the start. They both look good. Great videos.take care.
Most likely what happened is when you pumped air into your container that caused the PH to drift upward (this is known to happen with DWC). PH level directly dictates how fast your roots can process nutrients (I typically keep mine at 5.8). A more fair test you would use a $15 digital PH meter of Amazon. You would then bubble the water for both plants for 24hrs (oxidizing helps prevent PH drift). Add your nutrients and then using PH down get the water to 5.8 PH. After that check every 3 days (or each day if you prefer) and adjust PH to keep them the same. That will get you a good idea which is better. Knowing PH his critical for anyone wanting to grow hydroponic fast!
I sure enjoy your videos. And I think this is an interesting experiment. I know you mentioned many times that you know that it's not very scientific because it doesn't have multiple plans growing and blah blah blah blah blah. It's still great. I'm thinking that the person who mentioned that the bubbler didn't have an air stone probably is on the right track. Those giant bubbles probably did beat up the roots. And, like you said, maybe you accidentally damaged the root of one a little bit more when you were loading it into the rock wool. Still, super interesting. Thank you very much!
My question is in the summer can we plant or can we let it grow out side with only using the sun instead of the grow light in it. Thank you very much.
8:58 what is your air pump power? with too powerful pump water intake water is changing PH so that might change things a little...
Also in dwc you should be using a small air stone. The smaller the bubbles the better the oxygen level in the water
Nice video but I'm wanting to know how long would I be running the lights..changing the water..adding the nutrients and checking the ph levels..TIA
The extreme difference in root mass seems like the DWC subject is not a good plant. It happens. I would love to see a repeat of the same type of plant and see if the results are the same.
Ya, unfortunately not all plants are created equal. My 2 strongest jalapeno seedlings were both put into the same large DWC system so they had access to the exact same resources, temperatures, light, everything. One put out a ton of roots quickly and boomed and now looks amazing. The second one is much smaller than the first and has maybe half the roots at best. Just goes to show that a strong seedling doesn't always translate to a strong mature plant.
Wouldn't that mean that it is best to grow multiple seedlings to near maturity?
Agree. Sample size is just too small. I would like to repeat with 5 plants in each system. I gotta say I love it when experiments do the opposite of what you think! That is what science is about! Karl Popper would have loved it. 👍
I'm wondering if the room air exhaust can also be a factor in its location much the same way setting them parallel to the adjacent light?
I would loved to see the ph in the DWC, air systems can change it!!
I suspect the air bubbler chilled the roots of the lettuce with the cooler garage air. Jeb the Gardener did the same experiment in his office with basil, and the air bubbler basil grew a lot faster and then stopped once it was big and let the kratky basil catch up.
DWC 的一边，长期的水泵充气，会导致水份蒸发，需要监控营养液，平时需要补充营养液，密封的那一边，没有蒸发太多。 所以密封这一边营养丰富些
You mentioned the temperature effects growth. You think having the dwc so close to a vent hole may have effected it's growth?