Future commissioner for TFL right here! Your channel came across my feed randomly and I was mesmerised. I didn't have an interest as such but you being so passionate about these things made me want to watch more as its people like you who break the norm. Your knowledge about the rail network is extremely impressive. I've taught it such as Isombard Brunel and how he revolutionised the network from bare bones. Although your very, very attractive (not relevant) your a beacon for people in the BAME community (like me) who are not allowed to show passion via unconventional means.... Feel free to DM me as I'd love to hear from you! as do your many followers
having watched so many of your video, I respect viewers that offer discourse on the subject. You are magnetic. Scrolling ALOT through your comments, you as a person and what you do is seldom praised. Everybody comments on your videos with opinions on content. I find your videos creative, interesting, very well edited and professional. I want to tell you that you're special for having such an unusual passion and following it. I think you could be a massive role model for those that feel their interests are non-unique (I was not taken seriously as a classical musician wanting to take ALevel music)
Thamesmead is probably the most realistic extension proposal, due to the lack of rail links in that area I would very much doubt that an extension from Bank to Charing Cross is even possible (let alone realistic) due to the amount of tube tunnels, and utility networks (electricity mains, water mains, telecommunications networks etc) in the area surrounding Bank station
I agree, work for a tech firm in the bank area, there's utilities everywhere several hundred thousand fibre optic cables branching out everywhere and an awful lot of old buildings which may destabilise during such construction lovely theroty of it to work from bank to Vic or Charing x but totally unrealistic :)
@@JayJay-nc7pr oh I see I guess I shouldn't judge of its size just by looking at it on Google maps, and besides I would love a dlr extension how awesome would that be!
I was born just after when the Docklands Light Railway was built and I have been on it so many times. And also the extensions as well. And of course there are future plans to extend the DLR to Thamesmead and possibly to Bromley North with a dive under tunnel being built between Lewisham and Grove Park. And a new Thames Wharf DLR station to be built between Canning Town and West Silvertown. I do think that the DLR is still the best light rail that London has ever had. Lastly CAF are manufacturing the new DLR light rail stocks which will be fully air-conditioned, fully walkthrough and easier accessible for disabled passengers.
If they did do an extension to Charing Cross from Bank, it would be feasible to have a Fleet Street station along the way. They might even come up with a really novel name for the extension, Maybe something like "The Fleet Line".
With regards to Sutton, there was consultation going on a few years back regarding extending the tramlink, but I think I heard it is now dead in the water. Has there been any advance on this? Many years before there was talk of extending the Northern line to Sutton via Cheam. It would be great, but seems pie in the sky now. With the Sutton loop underused it seems a wasted opertunity. Could it ever be possible that Northern line join the loop at Mordern North or District line at Wimbledon? It would be an engineering challenge to realign the tracks, but would it be insurmoutable?
@@tomq6491 tramlink extension is officially shelved now I think. A northern line extension would be nice - as a kid I always took a bus all the way to Morden to get on the tube so I wouldn't complain about it being a bit closer to me
@@_CaptainCookie I think you are right but it seems a shame after so much planning to shelve the Tramlink extension. I hope it is postponed rather than cancelled but that is just wishful thinking. It seems that at Morden more than half the passengers on the tube run up to the bus stop outside for onwards travel. I think they missed a trick by not extending the tube, especially as there are areas of SW London lacking in transit options it could have serverd, North Cheam with one route or Rosehill, Wrythe area of Carshalton/ Mitcham with another. Beyond previous stations at Wimbledon, Sutton, Carshalton and Mitcham, the existing Sutton loop seems to skillfully avoid areas where a station would be most usefull.
Great Video 👍🏼 agree with most of it. I know it looks dead and buried now but the Dagenham extension I feel should still be a thing tbh but depends on how big the London Riverside development ends up being because could even go as far as Beam Park and Rainham to cover whole development area! Surely just the overground and poorly served c2c line wouldn't be enough? As for this thamesmead extension what would happen to beckton Station as the extension would divert from Gallions Reach? Would it close or would some trains still serve Beckton?
I'd go for Thamesmead - it's needed good public transport for ages, and another river crossing is always handy. But, would the extra branch-line mean too many trains at the centre of the system - so that some other lines have frequency cuts? Charing X - There is no direct tube from there to Bank, but if you go into Charing X by train, you can always change at London Bridge for Cannon Street. A better option might be to go from Bank to Euston, and then take up the Overground line as far as South Hamsptead, or even Willesden Junction. If that involved underground platforms at Euston, it could solve HS2's problem of not having enough platforms for the High-Speed line! Lewisham-Catford-Forest Hill is tempting. The 185 bus does just that (going on to Victoria) every 8 minutes, but taking half an hour. I'm sure the DLR could shave at least 10 minutes off that, but I don't think it's as big a priority as Thamesmead. If you are casting about for other ideas for commentary, I think your style would really suit a 'Junction station reviews' series - looking at e.g. Clapham Jnct, Stratford, etc., seeing how they work, how confusing the signs etc. are, and with ideas for improving the 'customer experience'... - maybe even a league table with points for signage, help available, state of toilets etc..
Why doesn't the Thamesmead extension go from Woolwich Arsenal? It could use the existing tunnel under the river, then run elevated over the very wide main road up to Thamesmead. This would be way cheaper and serve more places.
TFL should of planned an extension beyond Lewisham before the redevelopment scheme in 2014. Lewisham DLR station could of been easily relocated under the shopping centre.
I've worked on the DLR electrical track team for just over 20 years and we've heard so many wild plans but in that time, all we got was Stratford International to Woolwich Arsenal. I don't understand why we have so many Stratford stations on DLR. We had 1 until the Stratford International line opened, now we have 4. It gets confusing.
The extension to Thamesmead should be a no-brainer, that area needs transport. Any extension from Bank is both expensive and somewhat needless given how many connections there already are at Bank. I'm not a huge fan of the extension to Forest Hill because I just can't see how the extensive and costly remodelling that would be needed is justified - again because both areas already have transport options. That leaves the Bromley North option, which I have to admit has me reaching for a map to see how feasible it is. Replacing the shuttle with a through service to the Docklands and a short change to Bank would really be a boon to the area, so I think that's worth looking at... If you're going to have to deal with the "extending from Lewisham" problem, that's the one that's worth it in my book...
I think you are right about the remoddeling now, but it does seem like a wasted oppertunity. I had heard that Lewisham DLR with its unusual design between the "Y" junction of tracks on the mainline was done specifically so that it could be extended south knowing that Lewisham was due to be developed. However, during the development they seemed to favour road traffic and cheap short term solutions and are now in a situation where extending the line is difficult and perhaps almost unfeasable. Considering the level of road traffic, number of people using Catford Bridge station, pedestrian traffic, slow bus options, they really did miss a trick. The only similar option now I guess would be a tramline, but it is some distance from the rest of the existing tramlink.
I don’t think the DLR trauns would fit through the Jubilee Line tunnels to Charing Cross without enlarging them, which would probably wipe out most of the cost savings by using existing tunnels. I would find an extension to connect with Tramlink, presumably at Elmers End, useful.
What would be great is an Overground extension from Barking Riverside to Thamesmeade AND a DLR extension from Gallions Reach to Thamesmeade and then either the Overground or DLR or both continuing on to Abbey Wood.
Yeah the dlr should go to thamesmead tbh the Amanda point area is just growing bushes and they should utilise it and get the dlr going down south. When the silvertown tunnel opens in 2025 I think the 104 bus should take that route to south since the Elizabeth line has come it journey has been cut short and changed formerly (Stratford to manor park) now (beckton to Stratford)
Barking Riverside was the last, as TfL was now skint, this will mean no southern extension to the Bakerloo line, the DLR was envisaged to be a tram, DLR was the chosen option, speak to Mr Khan and ask him for any money available.
TfL is only skint because Johnson changed the funding arrangements with central goverment and agreed to TfL being 100 percent funded by passenger fares. So when the pandemic required passengers to "stay at home" and the trains were run with a full service so NHS workers and other key workers could get to work safely that burned up all the cash reserves. The subsidies should come back as TfL services go outside the Greater London area and because London tax payers do not live near those stations we have a silly zone system that racks up train prices. Having money to lower train fares (and merge London zones back down to five for Londoners and a couple of extras for non-Londoner) would make rail travel a more attractive option and increase the number of people who switch from driving to taking trains. We need to lower car usage in London and making the trains cheaper than cars is the direction we need to head in.
I've given you a thumbs up and I've seen your excellent well-informed videos before. Do you only cover London and the South East.? My experience in places such as up North, is that most people have no more interest in London than Londoners have in anything further than the M25. (Going further still from London can even meet with distinct "disapproval"). Anyway, keep up the good work.
Last time I was in Lewisham I could have sworn there was a bus station next to the DLR. Now I’m living in Manchester, wondering why Forest Hill (where there was once intended to be a bus station on the east side of the station, in the old coal yard) is a higher priority for investment. Like it though. 👍🏻
Actually the cheapest extension would be from Bank to Green Park as there is the Jubillee original track which actually has an 'over run' to Aldwych. That means new tunneling would be required on from Bank to Aldwych. I am not sure if there are disused platforms at Green Park, as at Charing Cross, but the main costs are the tunnels as the stations are already there.
aren't the original platforms still being used at Green Park? I heard the extension took a detour from the original route south of Green Park, but then I could be wrong.
@@tomq6491 I am sure you are right about the original platforms. Yes the JLE detour goes to Westminster under the park. The original line to Charing Cross was along the road routes. But it would not be problematic to put new platforms on the 'side' of the running tunnels of the original route below the diversion.
The extension to Euston and Victoria would be quite useful if it were not for the expenses. srfurley already mentioned how the DLR couldn’t fit in the Charing Cross Tunnels. If it wasn’t for tunnelling expenses and other problems, including building under properties, you could revive Charing Cross Jubilee into a secondary branch of the Jubilee Line that links to Bank with Temple and Blackfriars being extra stations in between which not only links with the DLR at Bank but provides a little connection to the District and Circle Lines on the way. Whether that is a waste of resources or not, it possibly might be the former. Though what do I know.
The DLR might not fit into the Charing Cross Jubilee Line platforms, but both those platforms and the two abandoned platforms at Aldwich station could be used to transport in equipment and transport out spoil from tunnellng. The main problem is going to be how to get a TBM into Bank Station to continue the existing tunnels. I'm guessing that the original TBM heads were abandoned just after the station, but they probably would not be reusable. And if there isn't enough overrun tunnel to build a new pair of TBMs the tunnel would need to be extended to make enough space to build a TBM. Maybe they should just knock down a building that is not important, like the Bank of England, and drop an access shaft down there to get the work going. 🤪
If I was in charge of funding, I'd go with the Thameslink extension first. The people in Thamesmead have been screwed over as the housing was built with the idea of a rail link and then the rail link was pushed back again and again and again. It's criminal that Barking Riverside is an up-in-the-air station, instead of a station in a box, with the Overground doing both Thamemead and Abbey Wood, to link with Crossrail. They should have future proofed that route. As the industry is removed along the banks of the Thames, we need to have multiple railway tunnels to connect North East and South East London to maximise employment options for everyone in the East End. Anyhoo, I'd wave Goodbye to Becton and the Ringways London Highways Department car park and throw the DLR into a tunnel to Gallions Reach Park. You are right about the platforms being too short. TfL made that mistake when they build Canada Water London Overground Station. So I'd extend Barnham Drive into that unbuilt area and drop a big box into the ground, and put platforms in half the box and build a removable wall that can be pulled down to double the length of the platforms. (I would have exits both sides and link over the the housing estate on the other side of that unbuilt land. The rest of that unbuilt land should be converted into a park for the local people. It's doing nothing and could be good for leisure. But that's not part of the DLR, so I should get back to it. Whoever built everything in Thamemead stuck in a big duel carriageway with no pavements, called Western Way, so that's some baked in car dependency that needs to be sorted out. And the DLR is the perfect way to do that. I would hop up onto a DLR-style viaduct at the roundabout that links Western Way with Central, and build the entire thing on stilts on top of the Central Way to Linton Mead Primary School and then have the viaduct turn 90 degrees south along the A2041. The A2041 is a bit narrower, at first, but then it turns into a three-lane road, where there is plenty of space to narrow the road for pillars and stairs down from the raised station platforms. Then you get to go over an insane car-dependency roundabout over Eastern Way, where a station needs to straddle the communities on both sides of that road. And, if you keep building the DLR on stilts, it takes you all the way to Abbey Wood station! But, I would not stop there. I'd carry on going south. If you go a little bit further, there is a ton of unbuilt land, so you can leave the road and use that to go onto both Falconwood and Mottingham. There are a couple of bits where you have to wiggle around houses, but I think that a short tunnel would get the job done and unite all three of the branch lines into London Bridge from Dartford. And a few dead bodies might need to be moved from cemeteries, but living people are more important than dead people. I don't care about the exact route, but it would obviously need to close enough the the edges of the parkland to work as public transport, and give people on those other lines an option to switch to Crossrail at Abbey Wood, instead of going to London Bridge.
Going through Nathan's videos and every idea is good, but it's mainly the cost. The Thamesmead section is down to crossing the river. The Bromley North idea could work taking over existing train lines, if the link from Lewisham can be sorted. As I said it's down to cost and the will of the authorities.
Thamesmead needs its own rail connection, it’s one of the largest rail deserts in London, if not the largest. The Forest Hill extension would be handy in taking some of the load off the ELL Overground line which is extremely busy and does need assistance.
Can we use the 200 million to demolish Lewisham and Catford and start again? But seriously, with regards to the Forest hill extension, I wish there were more overground style orbital services across London, usually the only alternatives are buses that get stuck in traffic, or private vehicles.
@@networknathan I had to point it out. I understood you as I'm familiar with the London rail network (even if I'm not a resident). Others namely first time visitors may get confused.
If I had £££ I'd upgrade the whole District line, Elizabeth line, and Overground to DLR. Then if I had more £££ I'd upgrade the whole tube/DLR network to Heathrow Pods.
Extension of DLR into central london shouldn't happen until after crossrail2 in my opinion DLR could have higher advantages in a different political and financial climate than today's horrible climate. I feel like extending to CH+ is beneficial, using the old Jubilee platforms would mean the Jubilee line loses its chance to turn around trains in case of delays/emergency etc. Its definetely still used for staff trains. TfL want's to up frequencies on the line too so it's crucial they keep that switchback option in place at the disused platforms! A better alternative is using new tunnels and relieving pressure at holborn and going towards strand. Depending on what CR2 does in central London, I think the DLR's biggest role there should be covering blind spots that both the tube and CR lines leave. I'd terminate branch 1 in Chelsea. I believe you could still sweet-talk those opposed to a station by telling them DLR isn't as large a scale as tube/Crossrail. Thus branch would travel from Bank to CH+ victoria and a sharp bend towards Chelsea. The second branch also starts at CH+ and connects to Euston from where it emerges to terminate in Camden. Why camden? This to relieve pressure off the Northern line and give people and alternative to this line. You can now easier access other tube lines and CR lines without using the tube. Because of automation, trains terminating beyond bank have their terminuses at closer points in East london. Therefore creating a high service pattern. And because everything is automated, trains dont really prioritize speed but frequency instead. You can run 36 tph and split them into 3 or 4 services towards central london. Because trains automatically reverse and manage themselves, trains that DO go far out east can easily terminate at stations where central london bound trains go through.
@@goatgamer001 because it would reduce the amount of services that go beyond Green Park and you'd limit the amount of trains that go on the JLE(Westminster - Stratford) which is the busiest part of the line easily. You'd have trains coming from Stanmore and terminate them at CH+ from the outside it doesn't seem like much. But if you're a regular commuter during peak.
@@goatgamer001 CH+ Jubilee is also used as film set for movies. TfL makes an extra revenue on that. Another reason why using the jubilee's old concourse for DLR specifically wouldn't be beneficial is that the height of the platform would need to be changed. Which means that existing elevators need to be replaced, and also the entire running tunnel and passenger tunnels need to be stripped down in it's entirely to lower the floor. That alone is extremely costly for a station concourse that Andreas exists anyway. On top of that, the running tunnels of the Jubilee line are not far away from the station itself. There's a place in there called Green Park junction you'd need to tunnel under or around which again under Central London is such a large operation. Think about service facilities too like new emergency exits and vent shafts
The DLR from Bank into the city would IMO look roughly like this: the line continues with a curve towards City Thameslink then to Aldwych where the line splits. One to CH+ in with a simple Island platform between the northern and bakerloo's platforms. If possible not below the lines as they're pretty deep. From there the line continues to Chelsea via Victoria. Depending on the funding and local support you can realize up to three stations on this side of the river. The other branch from Aldwych goes up north and doesnt stop until Euston. In this tunnel there will be space for an infill station near holborn. The Euston DLR station will mainly be used to relieve people off of HS2 and the terminus at Camden town will be seperate from the Northern line. A longer automatic trainyard can be realized at a later point in the main tunnels between bank and City Thameslink stations. Because I think that'd be feasible by the time you'd want to build something like this, which I'd say either happen around the next mid-60's. This yard can be accessed from both stations via seperate walkways and street level for fire safety and security. Expect tge new stations to be served by long trains and possess PED's
Hi, I Think the Lewisham on to Catford etc would be useful, but too difficult at Lewisham. Maybe extending the Tram up through Catford to Lewisham, giving an out of station interchange might be more practical and achieve similar connectivity. Something a Thamesmead is needed, not sure DLR is the answer. The main advantage of DLR is reusing existing rail base, not sure there is much there. Maybe Tram extension again. I can't see the point of extra connections from Bank into central London, not sure how it can be cheaper than a new or extended tube line, and 'cheap' is its basic advantage.
Just see the notification and I run to my TV
Future commissioner for TFL right here!
Your channel came across my feed randomly and I was mesmerised. I didn't have an interest as such but you being so passionate about these things made me want to watch more as its people like you who break the norm. Your knowledge about the rail network is extremely impressive. I've taught it such as Isombard Brunel and how he revolutionised the network from bare bones.
Although your very, very attractive (not relevant) your a beacon for people in the BAME community (like me) who are not allowed to show passion via unconventional means....
Feel free to DM me as I'd love to hear from you! as do your many followers
having watched so many of your video, I respect viewers that offer discourse on the subject. You are magnetic.
Scrolling ALOT through your comments, you as a person and what you do is seldom praised. Everybody comments on your videos with opinions on content.
I find your videos creative, interesting, very well edited and professional. I want to tell you that you're special for having such an unusual passion and following it. I think you could be a massive role model for those that feel their interests are non-unique (I was not taken seriously as a classical musician wanting to take ALevel music)
Future commissioner 😂🍑
Thamesmead is probably the most realistic extension proposal, due to the lack of rail links in that area
I would very much doubt that an extension from Bank to Charing Cross is even possible (let alone realistic) due to the amount of tube tunnels, and utility networks (electricity mains, water mains, telecommunications networks etc) in the area surrounding Bank station
I agree, work for a tech firm in the bank area, there's utilities everywhere several hundred thousand fibre optic cables branching out everywhere and an awful lot of old buildings which may destabilise during such construction lovely theroty of it to work from bank to Vic or Charing x but totally unrealistic :)
Thamesmead is not bad u got a national rail link close and its Abbey Wood u can easily get there by bus or walk
@@TransportForLuka Thamesmead is a large area, not all of it is close to Abbey Wood station so it needs its own station
@@JayJay-nc7pr oh I see I guess I shouldn't judge of its size just by looking at it on Google maps, and besides I would love a dlr extension how awesome would that be!
@@TransportForLuka no worries! If you’re not familiar with the area you aren’t to know 😁
I'd pick the Thamesmead one. The whole area lacks public transport. I'm 64 and still try to get the front seat. 🤣
Yup, as an "over 60" I can relate to that. 😁
I was born just after when the Docklands Light Railway was built and I have been on it so many times. And also the extensions as well. And of course there are future plans to extend the DLR to Thamesmead and possibly to Bromley North with a dive under tunnel being built between Lewisham and Grove Park.
And a new Thames Wharf DLR station to be built between Canning Town and West Silvertown. I do think that the DLR is still the best light rail that London has ever had. Lastly CAF are manufacturing the new DLR light rail stocks which will be fully air-conditioned, fully walkthrough and easier accessible for disabled passengers.
I would love the Bromley North extension to happen!
Might be the Bakerloo Line.
@@Andrewjg_89 👍🏾
👍
If they did do an extension to Charing Cross from Bank, it would be feasible to have a Fleet Street station along the way. They might even come up with a really novel name for the extension, Maybe something like "The Fleet Line".
I thought that too.
And a ststion at city thames link
I love your videos! Can you make a video on the trams in South London and the potential extension into Sutton?
With regards to Sutton, there was consultation going on a few years back regarding extending the tramlink, but I think I heard it is now dead in the water. Has there been any advance on this? Many years before there was talk of extending the Northern line to Sutton via Cheam. It would be great, but seems pie in the sky now. With the Sutton loop underused it seems a wasted opertunity. Could it ever be possible that Northern line join the loop at Mordern North or District line at Wimbledon? It would be an engineering challenge to realign the tracks, but would it be insurmoutable?
@@tomq6491 tramlink extension is officially shelved now I think. A northern line extension would be nice - as a kid I always took a bus all the way to Morden to get on the tube so I wouldn't complain about it being a bit closer to me
@@_CaptainCookie I think you are right but it seems a shame after so much planning to shelve the Tramlink extension. I hope it is postponed rather than cancelled but that is just wishful thinking. It seems that at Morden more than half the passengers on the tube run up to the bus stop outside for onwards travel. I think they missed a trick by not extending the tube, especially as there are areas of SW London lacking in transit options it could have serverd, North Cheam with one route or Rosehill, Wrythe area of Carshalton/ Mitcham with another. Beyond previous stations at Wimbledon, Sutton, Carshalton and Mitcham, the existing Sutton loop seems to skillfully avoid areas where a station would be most usefull.
Great Video 👍🏼 agree with most of it. I know it looks dead and buried now but the Dagenham extension I feel should still be a thing tbh but depends on how big the London Riverside development ends up being because could even go as far as Beam Park and Rainham to cover whole development area! Surely just the overground and poorly served c2c line wouldn't be enough? As for this thamesmead extension what would happen to beckton Station as the extension would divert from Gallions Reach? Would it close or would some trains still serve Beckton?
Very happy UA-cam recommended one of your videos to me. Great channel👍
i am glad you like it. thanks for watching :)
I'd go for Thamesmead - it's needed good public transport for ages, and another river crossing is always handy. But, would the extra branch-line mean too many trains at the centre of the system - so that some other lines have frequency cuts?
Charing X - There is no direct tube from there to Bank, but if you go into Charing X by train, you can always change at London Bridge for Cannon Street. A better option might be to go from Bank to Euston, and then take up the Overground line as far as South Hamsptead, or even Willesden Junction. If that involved underground platforms at Euston, it could solve HS2's problem of not having enough platforms for the High-Speed line!
Lewisham-Catford-Forest Hill is tempting. The 185 bus does just that (going on to Victoria) every 8 minutes, but taking half an hour. I'm sure the DLR could shave at least 10 minutes off that, but I don't think it's as big a priority as Thamesmead.
If you are casting about for other ideas for commentary, I think your style would really suit a 'Junction station reviews' series - looking at e.g. Clapham Jnct, Stratford, etc., seeing how they work, how confusing the signs etc. are, and with ideas for improving the 'customer experience'... - maybe even a league table with points for signage, help available, state of toilets etc..
Why doesn't the Thamesmead extension go from Woolwich Arsenal? It could use the existing tunnel under the river, then run elevated over the very wide main road up to Thamesmead. This would be way cheaper and serve more places.
Dlr extension to Charing cross in 2028 Opening date.
TFL should of planned an extension beyond Lewisham before the redevelopment scheme in 2014.
Lewisham DLR station could of been easily relocated under the shopping centre.
i agree 10000%. not much can be done now
An extension to Bromley would be really good, would better connect Bromley to areas above the river
Only discovered your channel the other day, loving it. Keep it up mate 👍🏻👌🏼
I agree that Thamesmead needs some sort of rail service, and so does Biggin Hil.
Found another awesome channel! Subscribed, loving the facial expressions lol
I've worked on the DLR electrical track team for just over 20 years and we've heard so many wild plans but in that time, all we got was Stratford International to Woolwich Arsenal.
I don't understand why we have so many Stratford stations on DLR. We had 1 until the Stratford International line opened, now we have 4. It gets confusing.
The extension to Thamesmead should be a no-brainer, that area needs transport.
Any extension from Bank is both expensive and somewhat needless given how many connections there already are at Bank. I'm not a huge fan of the extension to Forest Hill because I just can't see how the extensive and costly remodelling that would be needed is justified - again because both areas already have transport options.
That leaves the Bromley North option, which I have to admit has me reaching for a map to see how feasible it is. Replacing the shuttle with a through service to the Docklands and a short change to Bank would really be a boon to the area, so I think that's worth looking at... If you're going to have to deal with the "extending from Lewisham" problem, that's the one that's worth it in my book...
I think you are right about the remoddeling now, but it does seem like a wasted oppertunity. I had heard that Lewisham DLR with its unusual design between the "Y" junction of tracks on the mainline was done specifically so that it could be extended south knowing that Lewisham was due to be developed. However, during the development they seemed to favour road traffic and cheap short term solutions and are now in a situation where extending the line is difficult and perhaps almost unfeasable. Considering the level of road traffic, number of people using Catford Bridge station, pedestrian traffic, slow bus options, they really did miss a trick. The only similar option now I guess would be a tramline, but it is some distance from the rest of the existing tramlink.
I don’t think the DLR trauns would fit through the Jubilee Line tunnels to Charing Cross without enlarging them, which would probably wipe out most of the cost savings by using existing tunnels.
I would find an extension to connect with Tramlink, presumably at Elmers End, useful.
i didn’t about tunnel sizes you are right.
@@networknathan
I assume the Waterloo and City tunnels are too small for a DLR Extension from Bank to Waterloo…
@@gerard5705 they are, because the central stock is the same as the Waterloo stock, and they're significantly shorter in height then a DLR stock
I see a Network Nathan video and immediately click it! Thank you for awesome content! 😊
😊
What would be great is an Overground extension from Barking Riverside to Thamesmeade AND a DLR extension from Gallions Reach to Thamesmeade and then either the Overground or DLR or both continuing on to Abbey Wood.
that would also be great yh !!
@Mike Cook Designers of Barking Riverside have said it is unfeasible to extend Barking Riverside to Thamesmeade due to the geography
I have a solution.
Extend the DLR to Barking Riverside, and extend it to Thamesmead from there.
Grove Park extension would really boost what is quite a poorly connected area given the size of the station
Lived in Forest Hill for a while, not sure what planners were drinking if they thought a DLR line from Catford would fit
Yeah the dlr should go to thamesmead tbh the Amanda point area is just growing bushes and they should utilise it and get the dlr going down south. When the silvertown tunnel opens in 2025 I think the 104 bus should take that route to south since the Elizabeth line has come it journey has been cut short and changed formerly (Stratford to manor park) now (beckton to Stratford)
Barking Riverside was the last, as TfL was now skint, this will mean no southern extension to the Bakerloo line, the DLR was envisaged to be a tram, DLR was the chosen option, speak to Mr Khan and ask him for any money available.
TfL is only skint because Johnson changed the funding arrangements with central goverment and agreed to TfL being 100 percent funded by passenger fares. So when the pandemic required passengers to "stay at home" and the trains were run with a full service so NHS workers and other key workers could get to work safely that burned up all the cash reserves.
The subsidies should come back as TfL services go outside the Greater London area and because London tax payers do not live near those stations we have a silly zone system that racks up train prices. Having money to lower train fares (and merge London zones back down to five for Londoners and a couple of extras for non-Londoner) would make rail travel a more attractive option and increase the number of people who switch from driving to taking trains. We need to lower car usage in London and making the trains cheaper than cars is the direction we need to head in.
I've given you a thumbs up and I've seen your excellent well-informed videos before.
Do you only cover London and the South East.?
My experience in places such as up North, is that most people have no more interest in London than Londoners have in anything further than the M25. (Going further still from London can even meet with distinct "disapproval").
Anyway, keep up the good work.
My choice would be the Thamesmead extension to Abbey Wood because they've been talking about it for so long that actions must follow words.
[What about Thames Wharf DLR station and the Bakerloo line extension to Lewisham?]
Last time I was in Lewisham I could have sworn there was a bus station next to the DLR. Now I’m living in Manchester, wondering why Forest Hill (where there was once intended to be a bus station on the east side of the station, in the old coal yard) is a higher priority for investment.
Like it though. 👍🏻
Actually the cheapest extension would be from Bank to Green Park as there is the Jubillee original track which actually has an 'over run' to Aldwych. That means new tunneling would be required on from Bank to Aldwych. I am not sure if there are disused platforms at Green Park, as at Charing Cross, but the main costs are the tunnels as the stations are already there.
aren't the original platforms still being used at Green Park? I heard the extension took a detour from the original route south of Green Park, but then I could be wrong.
@@tomq6491 I am sure you are right about the original platforms. Yes the JLE detour goes to Westminster under the park. The original line to Charing Cross was along the road routes. But it would not be problematic to put new platforms on the 'side' of the running tunnels of the original route below the diversion.
@@uingaeoc3905 Sounds right. I guess of the options for going through central London this would probably be the easiest.
The extension to Euston and Victoria would be quite useful if it were not for the expenses. srfurley already mentioned how the DLR couldn’t fit in the Charing Cross Tunnels.
If it wasn’t for tunnelling expenses and other problems, including building under properties, you could revive Charing Cross Jubilee into a secondary branch of the Jubilee Line that links to Bank with Temple and Blackfriars being extra stations in between which not only links with the DLR at Bank but provides a little connection to the District and Circle Lines on the way.
Whether that is a waste of resources or not, it possibly might be the former. Though what do I know.
The DLR might not fit into the Charing Cross Jubilee Line platforms, but both those platforms and the two abandoned platforms at Aldwich station could be used to transport in equipment and transport out spoil from tunnellng.
The main problem is going to be how to get a TBM into Bank Station to continue the existing tunnels. I'm guessing that the original TBM heads were abandoned just after the station, but they probably would not be reusable. And if there isn't enough overrun tunnel to build a new pair of TBMs the tunnel would need to be extended to make enough space to build a TBM.
Maybe they should just knock down a building that is not important, like the Bank of England, and drop an access shaft down there to get the work going. 🤪
The last time, the DLR reviewed NEW trains.
It's great to sit at the front and play at being the driver.
If I was in charge of funding, I'd go with the Thameslink extension first. The people in Thamesmead have been screwed over as the housing was built with the idea of a rail link and then the rail link was pushed back again and again and again. It's criminal that Barking Riverside is an up-in-the-air station, instead of a station in a box, with the Overground doing both Thamemead and Abbey Wood, to link with Crossrail. They should have future proofed that route. As the industry is removed along the banks of the Thames, we need to have multiple railway tunnels to connect North East and South East London to maximise employment options for everyone in the East End.
Anyhoo, I'd wave Goodbye to Becton and the Ringways London Highways Department car park and throw the DLR into a tunnel to Gallions Reach Park. You are right about the platforms being too short. TfL made that mistake when they build Canada Water London Overground Station. So I'd extend Barnham Drive into that unbuilt area and drop a big box into the ground, and put platforms in half the box and build a removable wall that can be pulled down to double the length of the platforms. (I would have exits both sides and link over the the housing estate on the other side of that unbuilt land. The rest of that unbuilt land should be converted into a park for the local people. It's doing nothing and could be good for leisure. But that's not part of the DLR, so I should get back to it.
Whoever built everything in Thamemead stuck in a big duel carriageway with no pavements, called Western Way, so that's some baked in car dependency that needs to be sorted out. And the DLR is the perfect way to do that. I would hop up onto a DLR-style viaduct at the roundabout that links Western Way with Central, and build the entire thing on stilts on top of the Central Way to Linton Mead Primary School and then have the viaduct turn 90 degrees south along the A2041.
The A2041 is a bit narrower, at first, but then it turns into a three-lane road, where there is plenty of space to narrow the road for pillars and stairs down from the raised station platforms. Then you get to go over an insane car-dependency roundabout over Eastern Way, where a station needs to straddle the communities on both sides of that road. And, if you keep building the DLR on stilts, it takes you all the way to Abbey Wood station!
But, I would not stop there. I'd carry on going south. If you go a little bit further, there is a ton of unbuilt land, so you can leave the road and use that to go onto both Falconwood and Mottingham. There are a couple of bits where you have to wiggle around houses, but I think that a short tunnel would get the job done and unite all three of the branch lines into London Bridge from Dartford. And a few dead bodies might need to be moved from cemeteries, but living people are more important than dead people.
I don't care about the exact route, but it would obviously need to close enough the the edges of the parkland to work as public transport, and give people on those other lines an option to switch to Crossrail at Abbey Wood, instead of going to London Bridge.
Lewisham to Bromley would be nice. It takes bloody forever by bus at the moment.
nice vid. do one on tram extensions!
4:46 - That's a GREAT idea for TfL!
What coming soon; The Bakerloo line extension or something else?
Going through Nathan's videos and every idea is good, but it's mainly the cost. The Thamesmead section is down to crossing the river. The Bromley North idea could work taking over existing train lines, if the link from Lewisham can be sorted. As I said it's down to cost and the will of the authorities.
I heard that between canning town station and west silvertown station there will be another station called thames wharf
Thamesmead needs its own rail connection, it’s one of the largest rail deserts in London, if not the largest.
The Forest Hill extension would be handy in taking some of the load off the ELL Overground line which is extremely busy and does need assistance.
Whatever extensions that are planned, we need them
Can we use the 200 million to demolish Lewisham and Catford and start again?
But seriously, with regards to the Forest hill extension, I wish there were more overground style orbital services across London, usually the only alternatives are buses that get stuck in traffic, or private vehicles.
do you know if there will be victoria line extension
0:06 - Or should we call it, 'TSUKT'.
I always try and get to the front seats…if I’m with my kids I can pretend they want those seats (but they don’t care tbh).
There no H in Euston. Heuston station is in Ireland, not the UK!
ahhh damn. i will do better next time. thank u ;)
@@networknathan I had to point it out. I understood you as I'm familiar with the London rail network (even if I'm not a resident). Others namely first time visitors may get confused.
DLR to Abbey wood too expensive I think Belvedere is more realistic as it has more space
If I had £££ I'd upgrade the whole District line, Elizabeth line, and Overground to DLR. Then if I had more £££ I'd upgrade the whole tube/DLR network to Heathrow Pods.
Would love to see extension to Portsmouth
That would have to be a separate railway called Gunwharflink rather than DLR. though the idea has merit.
Extending the DLR to Houston? That would be an undertaking.
the one in texas?
They do need to remember the DLR name *DOCKLANDS* LIGHT RAILWAY
Extension of DLR into central london shouldn't happen until after crossrail2 in my opinion DLR could have higher advantages in a different political and financial climate than today's horrible climate. I feel like extending to CH+ is beneficial, using the old Jubilee platforms would mean the Jubilee line loses its chance to turn around trains in case of delays/emergency etc. Its definetely still used for staff trains. TfL want's to up frequencies on the line too so it's crucial they keep that switchback option in place at the disused platforms!
A better alternative is using new tunnels and relieving pressure at holborn and going towards strand. Depending on what CR2 does in central London, I think the DLR's biggest role there should be covering blind spots that both the tube and CR lines leave. I'd terminate branch 1 in Chelsea. I believe you could still sweet-talk those opposed to a station by telling them DLR isn't as large a scale as tube/Crossrail. Thus branch would travel from Bank to CH+ victoria and a sharp bend towards Chelsea. The second branch also starts at CH+ and connects to Euston from where it emerges to terminate in Camden. Why camden? This to relieve pressure off the Northern line and give people and alternative to this line. You can now easier access other tube lines and CR lines without using the tube. Because of automation, trains terminating beyond bank have their terminuses at closer points in East london. Therefore creating a high service pattern. And because everything is automated, trains dont really prioritize speed but frequency instead. You can run 36 tph and split them into 3 or 4 services towards central london. Because trains automatically reverse and manage themselves, trains that DO go far out east can easily terminate at stations where central london bound trains go through.
If jubilee line still uses Charing +, then why doesn't it have Normal service?
@@goatgamer001 because it would reduce the amount of services that go beyond Green Park and you'd limit the amount of trains that go on the JLE(Westminster - Stratford) which is the busiest part of the line easily. You'd have trains coming from Stanmore and terminate them at CH+ from the outside it doesn't seem like much. But if you're a regular commuter during peak.
@@goatgamer001 CH+ Jubilee is also used as film set for movies. TfL makes an extra revenue on that. Another reason why using the jubilee's old concourse for DLR specifically wouldn't be beneficial is that the height of the platform would need to be changed. Which means that existing elevators need to be replaced, and also the entire running tunnel and passenger tunnels need to be stripped down in it's entirely to lower the floor. That alone is extremely costly for a station concourse that Andreas exists anyway. On top of that, the running tunnels of the Jubilee line are not far away from the station itself. There's a place in there called Green Park junction you'd need to tunnel under or around which again under Central London is such a large operation. Think about service facilities too like new emergency exits and vent shafts
The DLR from Bank into the city would IMO look roughly like this: the line continues with a curve towards City Thameslink then to Aldwych where the line splits. One to CH+ in with a simple Island platform between the northern and bakerloo's platforms. If possible not below the lines as they're pretty deep. From there the line continues to Chelsea via Victoria. Depending on the funding and local support you can realize up to three stations on this side of the river.
The other branch from Aldwych goes up north and doesnt stop until Euston. In this tunnel there will be space for an infill station near holborn. The Euston DLR station will mainly be used to relieve people off of HS2 and the terminus at Camden town will be seperate from the Northern line. A longer automatic trainyard can be realized at a later point in the main tunnels between bank and City Thameslink stations. Because I think that'd be feasible by the time you'd want to build something like this, which I'd say either happen around the next mid-60's. This yard can be accessed from both stations via seperate walkways and street level for fire safety and security. Expect tge new stations to be served by long trains and possess PED's
Catford the third station lol
(5:35 - 5:41
Co-op Food branch Easter egg)
I love you Nathan 💙
Who's that swearing @ 8.51 😂
Front seats. It's all about nabbing the front seats.
best seats on any train!!
Stratford - walthamstow we need...
Nice
Hi, I Think the Lewisham on to Catford etc would be useful, but too difficult at Lewisham. Maybe extending the Tram up through Catford to Lewisham, giving an out of station interchange might be more practical and achieve similar connectivity.
Something a Thamesmead is needed, not sure DLR is the answer. The main advantage of DLR is reusing existing rail base, not sure there is much there. Maybe Tram extension again.
I can't see the point of extra connections from Bank into central London, not sure how it can be cheaper than a new or extended tube line, and 'cheap' is its basic advantage.
If I had 200m I'd keep it mate 😂😂 also I've spotted that your top shelf that you have a toy malaga train which is crazy because I'm there rn
Ahah, what’s the chances of that !!
@@networknathanjust realised how silly my comment was now, also now that I think of it 200m would be great for some new extensions
Nice. But you need to linger on the maps much longer.
3:02 - The GOBLIN's already complete.
0:49
Some are AUTOMATIC.
Im early
early bird catches the worm :-)
@@networknathan lol
DLR Could Do With a Extension 👍