I believe even in the original series he wouldn't specifically cheat. He made rules and then put himself in a situation that took advantage of those rules, but didn't specifically break any rules or do something as simple as using a trick deck. His sister is similar, but somehow more unhinged.
Oh exactly, the Toymaker would never cheat against the rules of the game. You just have to make sure that the rules of the game that he's playing, are the same rules of the game that you know.
@@snyperwulffgaming9575 And it's that exact reason I would _probably only last one episode._ I do have a pretty good max running speed... but abysmal endurance. Fifty, maybe a hundred meter sprint _at best_ before my lungs explode...
"I made a jigsaw out of your history. Did you like it?" I like that this line essentially allows Doctor Who fans to claim more or less anything as canon or not.
This my favorite scene of the Giggle. When Donna says "but he'll cheat." When the Toymaker says No! shame. Just was classic acting for some reason from Neil. He really made this episode. The crazy thing is the way he played him he could almost have been a version of the Master. Saying that he could have play a good Master.
I just noticed something, when he pointed to his gold tooth that apparently contains The Master. That image looked off to me but I didn't know why at the time. I just realized. He has A LOT of teeth. like WAY more than normal.
In Buddhist teaching, a man with 40 teeth is a one of the 32 marks of the Buddha. For a more detailed answer on why this is, here is a quote I took from a Quora post: “The 32 marks represent physical manifestations that identify the Buddha as an enlightened being. The number 40 is considered significant in Buddhist symbolism, representing completeness. Having 42 signifies the Buddha's perfected being. The Buddha 42 are described as being like pearls, white and even. This represents his pure, enlightening nature and Transcendence over ordinary human qualities… …His transform[ed] being is manifested in even his teeth. The Buddha's 40 teeth show that he surpasses normal human limitations and is no longer subject to human frailty. He has transformed basic human qualities into enlightened ones.” Counting his teeth, I think he has 20 on both top and bottom. This… thing… The Toymaker… is definitely an enlightened being. I only realized this connection because I read a story where a man made a deal with Yog-Sothoth and became a librarian in a parallel universe. He had noticed the same transformation with 40 teeth, made that connection himself, and was absolutely an ascended being even if he couldn’t realize that himself.
@@ceyx1201 no Johncampbell631 is right he doesn't have any canines and no the canines are not molars. After the canines we have 2 premolars and then 2 or 3 molars depending if you have your wisdomteeth or not :)
@ceyx1201 Canines are indeed for biting, but that has nothing to do with what I said. How does the function of a canine tooth affect the fact he doesn't have any?
If you notice all throughout this episode the toymaker changes his accent of multiple languages many times because the doctor originally beat him using his own voice. Such a great episode, dark and disturbing but could have benefited from being a 2 parter or having all 3 specials episodes part of it
@@darkness5101 I think dailymotion has a lot of the older episodes on. Britbox has them on, bbc iplayer does but if your not in the UK try a VPN should be able to access it
@@BadWolfAce. Id like to see them bust out the motor cycles and synchro summons. Only for it to devolve into mega ultra chicken being summoned and then finally just a good old fashioned exodia win. Didn’t the final movie involve some time travel where a ghost of an ancient warlord who possessed a child, a convicted felon and a high schooler who was held back all time travel to jump a guy?
I would pay cash money to see the Matt smith, David tennet, and Peter…. The old man doctor, the one after Matt smith, and of course Niel Patrick Harris play OG yugioh as their characters… maybe clone NPH so he can both toymaker and Barney stinson
Gotta respect the toymaker. he may be a chaotic godlike entity, but he always honors the rules of the game and would never cheat. in a game, his opponents have a relatively far chance of winning and it all comes down to skill and luck.
Spoilers-but I think it's a fun detail how pre-fourth doctor, the toymaker had no trouble messing with the Tardis or making it vanish. Yet here he's somehow noticed Sutekh's presence and has not laid a finger on it. That likely says a lot on how much he fears him.
something i liked about this scene: it retconned the timeless child and the entire history and the show, allowing fans to pick what they want to be cannon to who lore.
How did it retcon that? Fourteen had been mentioning that he doesn't know where he is from. So i don't think RTD is trying to take back the Timeless Child. In fact he's embraced it a bit.
@@Thief555WWJD all of the doctor's history has now officially been thrown out the window since it's been changed by the toymaker. and we don't exactly know what he changed and neither does the doctor. and by extension neither does the audience. really the only things that we can confirm are things we choose to believe. also i think it was mentioned somewhere that the doctor was an orphan, so his statements about not knowing where he came from and being a foundling still hold up in either context. the fact that this would even be a debate actually helps what i mean when i say we can now cherry pick what we want to believe, since nothing can be actually confirmed. like Schrödinger's cat the doctor both is and isn't the timeless child
Yeah, because the Doctor cheated him out of a prize. In Toymaker's games, when a side wins, they get a prize *no matter what*. I think that (or at least being able to see the prize they won) should come before the ability to declare best of three.
@@stephenmurphy2212 More than that, he gave the fandom the perfect justification to _accept or ignore_ plot details of the Doctor's history at will, forwards and backwards, for the entire rest of the franchise. It's the Whovian equivalent of Transformers Cybertron's _Unicron Singularity,_ a "multiverse-level disruption event" that retroactively explained ALL inconsistencies, plot holes, _everything_ in _all_ Transformers media forever. Weird plot hole about how protoforms work? Unicron did it. Doctor supposedly not being born Gallifreyan, or half-human, or infinitely regenerating? Toymaker did it.
These things are never an actual reference to anyhting, new who is “just say something grandiose and vague, then let the nerds argue about it forever.”
@@darkness5101 I think they’re referring to the Beast from The Impossible Planet/The Satan Pit, which is the universal inspiration for the concept of the Devil
@@michaelshigetani433 Since we know time lords can take others faces as reminders (the 12th doctor's appearance taken from the roman man as a reminder to have compassion), since the master got beat by the toymaker, he could take the toymakers face as a reminder to never get beat again
the only thing I disagreed with the writing in this episode was back in the original wasn’t the toymakers games rigged making it difficult for the opponent to win and the game being inside the toymakers odds and favour? But in this episode they claimed that the toymakers could not cheat, could someone clarify this ? Story wise this was the best out of the 3 episodes.
If I remember rightly it was actually the other players that rigged the games When The Toymaker realised he was angry and punished them. That said this isn't best of three. When The First Doctor met The Toymaker in the original episode a big deal was made of them already having met. So you'd assume they already had a game pre Classic Who
@@thebobbrom7176 The Toymaker seems to be outside of linear time. Almost like how River and the Doctor met out of order, the Toymaker works within chaos. His existence IS chaos. Living the past, present, and future all at once. The doctor might not have met the toymaker yet, but the toymaker probably have. He just keeps it simpler for the doctor's time stream who simply jumps along time rather than be beyond it.
@@johncrichton4341. Major media industries, big tech companies and a few others, what do you think they meant? Better yet why are you playing ignorant/coy? Media companies have been trying to phase out physical media for decades now.
@@RomanvonUngernSternbergnrmfvusI blame big media. Then again I blame big dentist for pushing flossing when it damages teeth, and big radio for pushing DAB, despite it being a mediocre transmission method. Oh and big royals for killing Kate and putting a doppelgänger out to fool the masses.
**The doctor summons in a short Japanese kid with a pyramid puzzle on a chain around his neck** “My friend here likes to play games too, he’d love to play one with you”
I love them both simultaneously rejecting the idea that the Toymaker would cheat. Of course, the Doctor cheated in a way during their original encounter.
It wasn't cheating exactly as there were no rules to say the doctor was not allowed to use the toymakers voice to make a move. The toymaker isn't allowed to cheat, he bends the rules
@@unclekarl5219 Awoke him? Is it the One Who Sleeps?? And hypnotizing everyone in 2023 to create mass destruction and chaos could very well have killed Susan Triad and Harriet. Does that count as "refusing to challenge"? 😂😂
@@mega20able So how many Susans exist on Earth?? By your logic, every time the Doctor dropped off Rose, Martha, Donna, Amy, Clara and Fam trio a Susan spawned? That's a 100 Susans in 10 years? 😂😂
@@soulstealer5625 That if the earth dies in 1906 why does it live to die in 2005?? We literally saw in Devils chord that the earth can only die once and it will change the future. So Earth cannot die multiple times. And before you saw multi verse, 10th had already locked the Dimensions by destroying the Void 😛😛
Say what you want about this special, but Neil Patrick Harris was the *perfect* choice to play the Toymaker. He rides that line between entertaining and genuinely chilling perfectly
@@SHIGUFEVER Yeah, if he were any other villain. But the Toymaker's existence and perspective on life is bound by the rules of fair play. What the Doctor did wasn't in the rules of the game.
@@tTaseric It wasn't outside of the rules either. It wasn't technically cheating as the rules didn't prohibit it. You can't cheat the toy maker, but you can manipulate the living hell outta the rules
It'd never happen, but a great Doctor Who crossover would be John "Jigsaw" Kramer vs the Toymaker! Perfect fit for the Jigsaw's catchphrase "I wanna play a game!"
That would be something because Toymaker can't cheat because his entire existence is bound to follow the rules of the game despite being omnipotent and John Kramer is hell of a smart man to play with Toymaker would be sweating nervously 🤣
Toymaker: There is one player who i don't dare challenge. The one who wait Doctor: who's that? Toymaker: that's someone else's game Me who play cult of the lamb: Huh? You say something?
One of the things about this episode always perplexes me, Mr Russell T Davies - if The Master is sealed in his gold tooth, did The Toymaker inherit his regeneration cycle as well, hence why he looks different?
My personal canon is that the toymaker was using lots of accents on purpose. The doctor beat him the first time by copying his voice, if the toymaker has a voice that goes all over the place, much harder to imitate.
@@Flufux why Sutekh? He talked a big game sure but ultimately was just a very powerful psychic. Still a mortal being, born in & of the material universe. Plus it just sounds a bit random.
Its legit one version of the ane who stands above all vs another version with donna in the middle. Also the one who waits is a wonderful lad. You can see the fear in the toy makers eyes
You can totally see the king of hearts appear towards the end of him shuffling. He had the odds in his favor of grabbing that card from the deck but let the doctor pick first so that way it was "fair" in the sense that he had every opportunity to pull that card before he made his move.
I kind of wonder if the other teeth are sealed beings like the Master & the golden tooth & also if the mouth the Toymaker shows when displaying the golden tooth is different from the mouth the Toymaker usually talks with. Yeah, not really sure how to word it properly but basically he has 1 mouth that he uses for everyday life like talking & eating, & another for sealing anyone that lost to him
No, the Master was just sealed in a gold tooth, he even defeated gods in his games, turned one into a Jack in the Box, don’t know what he turned the other gods into
@@mcat9974 If you're asking why the Toymaker seems to be using multiple accents throughout the special, according to RTD, it's because the Toymaker is racist. Fans theorise that it could also be because the 1st Doctor bested the Toymaker by mimicking his voice.
@@Omni_Gracist seems oversimplified. Otherwise they’d have just kept the Chinese look. It’s more like; he’s fascinated by the variety of Earth cultures and likes “toying” around with them himself. Racist insofar as he’s just using them for his own entertainment & doesn’t care about appropriation.
I don't think so. If Sutekh wanted to use the Master; we would have seen him. I think the BBC / Davis just wanted to make sure WE saw the tooth being taken away. It's a way for them to keep the Master 'in play' if you will
2:22 The easy choosing of the King of Hearts seems to suggest that the game was unfair. (How do we know he can't see both sides of all the cards? or didn't otherwise memorize their arrangement while shuffling, or shuffle them in a non-random manner from a known state.) At least The Doctor should have asked to shuffle them also, it is a bit of a puzzle that he selected a game with so much potential for trickery.
The Toymaker doesn't cheat, if he did there would be no point to the games. In the original story he even penalizes and restarts a game between the Firsts companions and the Toymakers own players because they realize the other two are cheating.He's already a reality warping godlike entity so if he was going to cheat to win at a game, he could have made his card the Ace of Hearts, Ace of Spades, even a special Toymaker card if he really just wanted to flex.
@@PugsWellington The Toymaker is always going against "the spirit of the rules" even as he follows them. He doesn't play for true fun or sport, he's playing to win, to conquer. He always stacks the factors not directly covered by the rules against the players. As he says, he's "a bad loser", but occasionally loses due to boredom. One has to wonder - what specifically allows The Doctor to beat him, when so many great others can't?
I'm interested in the storyline of the "one who waits". Obviously this is the next big bad in Dr. Who. If the Toymaker is scared of the "one who waits", then the "one who waits" will be a serious foe for the Dr.
Why did the Doctor basically throw the first game with the Toymaker by choosing that dumb 50/50 game? Why not choose catch or chess here? Edit: My point is: why not at least try and win this first game? He won by playing catch later, so why not just do that now and save a lot of trouble?
Best odds. If he wins, he could banish the Toymaker if he doesn't invoke Bo3. If he loses, as you can see from the episode, he can invoke Bo3. Either way, it's the best he could do with such a powerful opponent
He only chose catch at the end cuz there were two of him. And they only-barely won even then. Frankly I’m convinced that challenging the Toymaker to a game makes him your equal for that game, to make it “fair”. Otherwise he could have just willed himself infinite stamina and superhuman reflexes at the end. In which case chess would still be a gamble, since he’d be the Doctors mental equal.
The Toymaker is bound to play any game fairly, so might as well choose the game with the least time and effort involved. That way, either Doctor would get to end this quickly, or be able to save energy for a third game if he had to invoke "best of three". It's good strategy.
The Toymaster is one of the deadliest enemies the doctor has ever faced! Their battle will be legendary. Draw a card. Ooh my card was higher. Throw a ball. Oops i dropped the ball. 😐
The Toymaker isn't deadly because he can go pew pew into badass battles like the Daleks or the Cybermen. He's dangerous because he's unrestrained by reality and he plays games which are now trickier because back with the First Doctor, his games had convoluted rules that you can big brain your way into, these new games are pure chance. Deadly doesn't always come with a legendary epic battle, yknow.
I never watched the series (got sent here by the algorithm) but one of my favorite authors, Ben Aaronovitch, was a scriptwriter for this show. I can definitely see how it shaped his style. This is really fascinating…
The way the doctor speaks about who won the game only leads me to believe he was once the toymaker.. or will be the toymaker... Same goes for the master & every other living being...
He says it in such a low-key way that I think a LOT of people missed it, his plan/game was essentially a takedown of cancel culture of any side indiscriminately...took the prevailing desire to be "right" and cursed everyone with what they wanted.
@@evanroberts5045 But it is said the Beast could never truly be destroyed. "The devil is an idea. In all our civilizations, just an idea. But an idea is hard to kill. An idea can escape."
@@ragingphantom how many of them are left to kill? The physical ones? Because in Torchwood they dealt with an entity like the Beast and they said there were more sealed away across the universe, kill the physical creatures but they can survive as concepts and/or negative human emotions and what not?
The Toymaker refers to gambling with God. Who or what is God within the Doctor Who universe?. I know he wasn't referring to the Guardians of Time, as he referred to them separately🤔
We've already seen "the beast" which implies other entities beyond the setting's universe/multiverse. But The Doctor also states things about there being plenty of "gods" about. Whether RTD remembered that or not is probably the question.
Notice how when the toymaker smiles to show off the gold tooth, he has way more teeth than a human does? Just a little touch to remind you this thing is certainly not one of us.
Actually..... The Toymaker won their original game, The Doctor just made his play (the Toymaker's play) while inside the Tardis, by copying his voice to make the Toymaker's ending move from inside the Tardis (as completing the game, win or lose, was going to destroy Toymaker's created universe with them inside- being inside the Tardis allowed them to escape)
In a way, The Toymaker wants to warn the Doctor about who is coming. But is so deeply afraid he can’t. So he just leaves a hint, so the Doctor can be aware. Not that it did much good.
The Toymaker was genuinely offended when Donna said he would cheat 💀
I believe even in the original series he wouldn't specifically cheat. He made rules and then put himself in a situation that took advantage of those rules, but didn't specifically break any rules or do something as simple as using a trick deck. His sister is similar, but somehow more unhinged.
Oh exactly, the Toymaker would never cheat against the rules of the game. You just have to make sure that the rules of the game that he's playing, are the same rules of the game that you know.
😢@@MisterPuggles
"Donna...!" "I'M ALREADY RUNNING!"
Ah yes, Rule _Two_ of travelling with the Doctor: "It's always Leg Day."
Never really thought of it but yeah, his partners have to have excellent cardio by the end of their adventure with him.
@@snyperwulffgaming9575 And it's that exact reason I would _probably only last one episode._ I do have a pretty good max running speed... but abysmal endurance. Fifty, maybe a hundred meter sprint _at best_ before my lungs explode...
@@WackoMcGoose that just it. at first it wouldnt matter but by the time it does youll have amazing endurance
The Dr: every day is leg day when you’re dealing against the toy maker
"What's on the menu? *_LEGS."_*
"I made a jigsaw out of your history. Did you like it?" I like that this line essentially allows Doctor Who fans to claim more or less anything as canon or not.
“Fans”
The only consistent things about the Doctor have been the box, the screwdriver, and the two hearts. Everything else? Who gives a damn lol.
The time war never happened and the doctor never met rose since that no longer canon now. 😌
As it’s ever been
The time war should of been a mini series with the 8th and the war doctor before the 50th
This my favorite scene of the Giggle. When Donna says "but he'll cheat." When the Toymaker says No! shame. Just was classic acting for some reason from Neil. He really made this episode. The crazy thing is the way he played him he could almost have been a version of the Master. Saying that he could have play a good Master.
NPH would have been a superb choice for the Doctor
Did anyone else really want the Toymaker to excitedly yell “challenge accepted”?
That would have blown my mind!!!
That would have been Legen… wait for it… Dary!!!
heard a voice in my mind said that when i watched this scene
I did
yes
“The one who waits.”
And now we know.
Marvin the robot from doug adams hitchhikers guide to the universe natch
Surprised the toymaker didn't own a leash 😅
Hmm. I found the reintroduction of Sutekh underwhelming and positively anticlimactic 🙄😒
What do i write to find out about this.
@@danivarius :(
I just noticed something, when he pointed to his gold tooth that apparently contains The Master. That image looked off to me but I didn't know why at the time. I just realized.
He has A LOT of teeth. like WAY more than normal.
In Buddhist teaching, a man with 40 teeth is a one of the 32 marks of the Buddha. For a more detailed answer on why this is, here is a quote I took from a Quora post:
“The 32 marks represent physical manifestations that identify the Buddha as an enlightened being.
The number 40 is considered significant in Buddhist symbolism, representing completeness. Having 42 signifies the Buddha's perfected being.
The Buddha 42 are described as being like pearls, white and even. This represents his pure, enlightening nature and Transcendence over ordinary human qualities…
…His transform[ed] being is manifested in even his teeth.
The Buddha's 40 teeth show that he surpasses normal human limitations and is no longer subject to human frailty. He has transformed basic human qualities into enlightened ones.”
Counting his teeth, I think he has 20 on both top and bottom. This… thing… The Toymaker… is definitely an enlightened being.
I only realized this connection because I read a story where a man made a deal with Yog-Sothoth and became a librarian in a parallel universe. He had noticed the same transformation with 40 teeth, made that connection himself, and was absolutely an ascended being even if he couldn’t realize that himself.
He also doesn't have any canine teeth (the four pointed teeth at 10 o'clock and 2 o'clock direction in your mouth.)
@@johncampbell631 what? Isn't that molar, canine are for biting not chewing. 😂
@@ceyx1201 no Johncampbell631 is right he doesn't have any canines and no the canines are not molars. After the canines we have 2 premolars and then 2 or 3 molars depending if you have your wisdomteeth or not :)
@ceyx1201 Canines are indeed for biting, but that has nothing to do with what I said.
How does the function of a canine tooth affect the fact he doesn't have any?
"I saw it, hiding, and I ran ... "
For just a moment, it was like something beyond just playing games as his existence came through.
No fucking wonder he ran, The One Who Waits is more about "gifts", if you know what I mean.
Well that explains why he never approached the Doctor directly. He never got close to the TARDIS, and waited until the Doctor came to him
Was probably diddy
"The One Who Waits" is definitely Marvin the android, toiling away as a carpark attendant for millennia. 😉
Awesome Hitchhiker's Guide reference!
Well, no wonder the Toymaker's afraid to face him! Imagine playing and having to listen to him complain the whole time!
no it the thing on planet time i believe
Brain the size of a planet, and they have me parking cars ( words to that effect ). 😁
I thought the being stuck in the swamp with the living bed mattresses was the worst
If you notice all throughout this episode the toymaker changes his accent of multiple languages many times because the doctor originally beat him using his own voice. Such a great episode, dark and disturbing but could have benefited from being a 2 parter or having all 3 specials episodes part of it
I did not know the doctor did that because I can’t find the OG series anymore to watch it
@@darkness5101 I think dailymotion has a lot of the older episodes on. Britbox has them on, bbc iplayer does but if your not in the UK try a VPN should be able to access it
@@darkness5101same. I want to see that original episode with the original toymaker!!!
@@darkness5101 its a lost episodes
Oh, that's a great point! He never wanted to be caught by the same trick twice
Knowing neil is an actual magician makes the card movements so much cooler
What? For Real?
@@jamesvanitas yup! Not a professional, but he knows some moves and is quite good.
He did tricks on the set of How I Met Your Mother.
The look of disgust on the toymakers face when donna said that he would cheat 😂😂😂😂😂 priceless
Donna: but he'll cheat!
Both: no!
Toymaker: shame!
I challenge you to a game ! * Pulls out Duel Disk* ITS TIME TO DUEL
Challenge accepted!!😂
"Sure, you're an eldritch horror beyond the universe, but I have Exodia the Forbidden One!"
@@BadWolfAce. Id like to see them bust out the motor cycles and synchro summons. Only for it to devolve into mega ultra chicken being summoned and then finally just a good old fashioned exodia win.
Didn’t the final movie involve some time travel where a ghost of an ancient warlord who possessed a child, a convicted felon and a high schooler who was held back all time travel to jump a guy?
D-D-d-D-d-d-d-D-duell!!!
I would pay cash money to see the Matt smith, David tennet, and Peter…. The old man doctor, the one after Matt smith, and of course Niel Patrick Harris play OG yugioh as their characters… maybe clone NPH so he can both toymaker and Barney stinson
Gotta respect the toymaker. he may be a chaotic godlike entity, but he always honors the rules of the game and would never cheat. in a game, his opponents have a relatively far chance of winning and it all comes down to skill and luck.
Spoilers-but I think it's a fun detail how pre-fourth doctor, the toymaker had no trouble messing with the Tardis or making it vanish. Yet here he's somehow noticed Sutekh's presence and has not laid a finger on it. That likely says a lot on how much he fears him.
Meanwhile, the Maestro has no fear. Just play those funky tunes, you horrifying monster you!
something i liked about this scene: it retconned the timeless child and the entire history and the show, allowing fans to pick what they want to be cannon to who lore.
In other words, shitty writing.
How did it retcon that? Fourteen had been mentioning that he doesn't know where he is from. So i don't think RTD is trying to take back the Timeless Child. In fact he's embraced it a bit.
@@Thief555WWJD I alpha is saying that the toymaker made a jig saw out of his history
@@Thief555WWJD all of the doctor's history has now officially been thrown out the window since it's been changed by the toymaker. and we don't exactly know what he changed and neither does the doctor. and by extension neither does the audience. really the only things that we can confirm are things we choose to believe.
also i think it was mentioned somewhere that the doctor was an orphan, so his statements about not knowing where he came from and being a foundling still hold up in either context.
the fact that this would even be a debate actually helps what i mean when i say we can now cherry pick what we want to believe, since nothing can be actually confirmed.
like Schrödinger's cat the doctor both is and isn't the timeless child
oh my god. the toymaker made everybody right.
You can see that he's pissed off that it's gonna be best of three.
Yeah, because the Doctor cheated him out of a prize. In Toymaker's games, when a side wins, they get a prize *no matter what*. I think that (or at least being able to see the prize they won) should come before the ability to declare best of three.
0:36 "i made a jigsaw of your history".
Is that referring the timeless child storyline?
YES.
Is this implying the toymaker literally rewrote the Doctor’s origin story???
@@stephenmurphy2212 More than that, he gave the fandom the perfect justification to _accept or ignore_ plot details of the Doctor's history at will, forwards and backwards, for the entire rest of the franchise. It's the Whovian equivalent of Transformers Cybertron's _Unicron Singularity,_ a "multiverse-level disruption event" that retroactively explained ALL inconsistencies, plot holes, _everything_ in _all_ Transformers media forever. Weird plot hole about how protoforms work? Unicron did it. Doctor supposedly not being born Gallifreyan, or half-human, or infinitely regenerating? Toymaker did it.
I took it to mean the flux; but it could be personal
These things are never an actual reference to anyhting, new who is “just say something grandiose and vague, then let the nerds argue about it forever.”
i would absolutely love it if the one who waits is the trickster. such an insanely well written villain from the Sarah Jane Adventurers.
I would have to watch her show to find out who that is
I suspect the One Who Waits is the Beast🤔
It could indeed be the Beast. In the new trailer, they mentioned things falling into the pit🤔
@@lolfzbfwho’s the beast?
@@darkness5101 I think they’re referring to the Beast from The Impossible Planet/The Satan Pit, which is the universal inspiration for the concept of the Devil
NPH is such an awesome actor.
NPH would've made an amazing Master 😊
neil hatrick paris?
@@xNaxdy Oops. Thanks for pointing that out 😊
he still could. nothing saying the master wouldn't take the Toymaker's Face. hm
@@michaelshigetani433 Since we know time lords can take others faces as reminders (the 12th doctor's appearance taken from the roman man as a reminder to have compassion), since the master got beat by the toymaker, he could take the toymakers face as a reminder to never get beat again
@@bobsempletank5362 perfect fit!!
the only thing I disagreed with the writing in this episode was back in the original wasn’t the toymakers games rigged making it difficult for the opponent to win and the game being inside the toymakers odds and favour? But in this episode they claimed that the toymakers could not cheat, could someone clarify this ? Story wise this was the best out of the 3 episodes.
Building a nearly unwinnable game and setting unfair rules is different than cheating or going against a set of rules.
If anything, the Toymaker's fatal mistake was letting the Doctor pick the games this time.
If I remember rightly it was actually the other players that rigged the games
When The Toymaker realised he was angry and punished them.
That said this isn't best of three.
When The First Doctor met The Toymaker in the original episode a big deal was made of them already having met.
So you'd assume they already had a game pre Classic Who
@@thebobbrom7176which we were shown in divided loyalties
@@thebobbrom7176 The Toymaker seems to be outside of linear time. Almost like how River and the Doctor met out of order, the Toymaker works within chaos. His existence IS chaos. Living the past, present, and future all at once. The doctor might not have met the toymaker yet, but the toymaker probably have. He just keeps it simpler for the doctor's time stream who simply jumps along time rather than be beyond it.
0:51 he is both charming and unnerving.
Clever for the Toy Maker to pull out a deck of cards. He was already limiting the Doctor's options.
I love how this video is 4K yet we still don't have a 4K UHD Blu-ray of the episodes!
That's by design. They want to eliminate physical so you pay a monthly fee to them for life.
@@moonlambo5229 Who is "them"?
@@johncrichton4341. Major media industries, big tech companies and a few others, what do you think they meant? Better yet why are you playing ignorant/coy? Media companies have been trying to phase out physical media for decades now.
@@RomanvonUngernSternbergnrmfvusI blame big media. Then again I blame big dentist for pushing flossing when it damages teeth, and big radio for pushing DAB, despite it being a mediocre transmission method. Oh and big royals for killing Kate and putting a doppelgänger out to fool the masses.
"I gambled with God, and made him a jack in the box."
I choose Magic: The Gathering.
*breaks out 200 page Comprehensive Rules*
Someone really needs to add the Yu-Gi-Oh season zero game start theme to this.
**The doctor summons in a short Japanese kid with a pyramid puzzle on a chain around his neck**
“My friend here likes to play games too, he’d love to play one with you”
the Doctor: “I believe in the heart of the cards!”
@@AlexanderOsias That was ignorant yank insert. The original manga was not like that
I love them both simultaneously rejecting the idea that the Toymaker would cheat. Of course, the Doctor cheated in a way during their original encounter.
It wasn't cheating exactly as there were no rules to say the doctor was not allowed to use the toymakers voice to make a move. The toymaker isn't allowed to cheat, he bends the rules
So the Toymaker "ran" when he "saw" Sutekh "hiding" above the TARDIS and yet he is dancing and prancing about engaging with the Doctor?? 😂😂
He ran as in he refused to challenge Sutekh because he knew if he awoke him he’d simply wipe out everything including the toymaker
@@unclekarl5219 Awoke him? Is it the One Who Sleeps?? And hypnotizing everyone in 2023 to create mass destruction and chaos could very well have killed Susan Triad and Harriet. Does that count as "refusing to challenge"? 😂😂
@@mega20able So how many Susans exist on Earth?? By your logic, every time the Doctor dropped off Rose, Martha, Donna, Amy, Clara and Fam trio a Susan spawned? That's a 100 Susans in 10 years? 😂😂
@@hirudinariawhat part of 'the earth is dying multiple times across time' did you not understand
@@soulstealer5625 That if the earth dies in 1906 why does it live to die in 2005?? We literally saw in Devils chord that the earth can only die once and it will change the future. So Earth cannot die multiple times. And before you saw multi verse, 10th had already locked the Dimensions by destroying the Void 😛😛
Anyone else notice the illustration on the King card was that of the original Toymaker from the first time he appeared in Doctor Who?
When Neil Patrick Harris's first offered to part the funny thing is he never even knew what Doctor who even is
"I'm already running" she just like me at work
Honestly, it would have been awesome if the Doctor and Toymaker played “Snap”.
Marvel Snap?
Pokemon Snap ?
still disappointed the final game wasnt YU-GI-OH
Is it the one that involves twisting their necks until it goes snap?
Or Tik Tak Toe.
Say what you want about this special, but Neil Patrick Harris was the *perfect* choice to play the Toymaker. He rides that line between entertaining and genuinely chilling perfectly
The Celestial Toymaker remains my favorite opponent in Doctor Who.
RTD's face when he wrote this scene be like: 🧂
It's weird the Toymaker counts their first game as a valid win by the Doctor, considering the Doctor cheated to win.
It's moreso he outsmarted him.
@@SHIGUFEVER Yeah, if he were any other villain.
But the Toymaker's existence and perspective on life is bound by the rules of fair play. What the Doctor did wasn't in the rules of the game.
@@tTaseric
It wasn't outside of the rules either. It wasn't technically cheating as the rules didn't prohibit it. You can't cheat the toy maker, but you can manipulate the living hell outta the rules
It'd never happen, but a great Doctor Who crossover would be John "Jigsaw" Kramer vs the Toymaker! Perfect fit for the Jigsaw's catchphrase "I wanna play a game!"
That would be something because Toymaker can't cheat because his entire existence is bound to follow the rules of the game despite being omnipotent and John Kramer is hell of a smart man to play with
Toymaker would be sweating nervously 🤣
and what about q from star trek
Anyone else catch how many teeth the Toymaker has in that close up shot?!
Should’ve challenged him to a game of Terraforming Mars.
Seems the Doctor’s expression was of anger after being told what happened to the Master
Toymaker: There is one player who i don't dare challenge. The one who wait
Doctor: who's that?
Toymaker: that's someone else's game
Me who play cult of the lamb: Huh? You say something?
did you beat the cult of the lamb
@@jessealvarado7796 yes i did
how was it is it creepy or not creepy@@bluemariomedia8351
One of the things about this episode always perplexes me, Mr Russell T Davies - if The Master is sealed in his gold tooth, did The Toymaker inherit his regeneration cycle as well, hence why he looks different?
Size.
The Master is a Time Lord.
The Toymaker is a chaos god.
Size.
NPH was amazing in dr who I hope we see him again as a villain at some point
Is that NPHs actual voice
If so the accent is brilliant
My personal canon is that the toymaker was using lots of accents on purpose. The doctor beat him the first time by copying his voice, if the toymaker has a voice that goes all over the place, much harder to imitate.
Good acting all around!
The One Who Waits… Is that a Classic Who callback?
Not directly, but it could eventually be revealed to be a Classic Who character. In that case, my guess would be Sutekh the Destroyer or the Valeyard.
Honestly If I had to guess, I think it might be Fenric@@Flufux
Rory waited for 2000 years for Amy and the Pandorica to open, he was reborn in the second universe.
Could be Rory
@@Olebull93why would the Toymaker be afraid of Rory Williams
@@Flufux why Sutekh?
He talked a big game sure but ultimately was just a very powerful psychic. Still a mortal being, born in & of the material universe. Plus it just sounds a bit random.
I accept your challenge shud of been CHALLENGE ACCEPTED
If you look really closely at the king the toymaker cuts to, the face looks exactly like Matt Smith!
You’re right !! Is it just a cameo or does it mean anything ?
It looks more like him (and/or like the original Toymaker) - hence "I'm the King."
I was wondering if it was related to the Smith’s « I’m coming back if I can be the Master » rumor
It's not Matt Smith, it's the original way the toy maker looked.
Its legit one version of the ane who stands above all vs another version with donna in the middle. Also the one who waits is a wonderful lad. You can see the fear in the toy makers eyes
You can totally see the king of hearts appear towards the end of him shuffling. He had the odds in his favor of grabbing that card from the deck but let the doctor pick first so that way it was "fair" in the sense that he had every opportunity to pull that card before he made his move.
I kind of wonder if the other teeth are sealed beings like the Master & the golden tooth & also if the mouth the Toymaker shows when displaying the golden tooth is different from the mouth the Toymaker usually talks with. Yeah, not really sure how to word it properly but basically he has 1 mouth that he uses for everyday life like talking & eating, & another for sealing anyone that lost to him
No, the Master was just sealed in a gold tooth, he even defeated gods in his games, turned one into a Jack in the Box, don’t know what he turned the other gods into
Can someone explain the accent? Good start but then German?
@@mcat9974 If you're asking why the Toymaker seems to be using multiple accents throughout the special, according to RTD, it's because the Toymaker is racist. Fans theorise that it could also be because the 1st Doctor bested the Toymaker by mimicking his voice.
@@Omni_G Thank you!
@@Omni_Gracist seems oversimplified. Otherwise they’d have just kept the Chinese look. It’s more like; he’s fascinated by the variety of Earth cultures and likes “toying” around with them himself. Racist insofar as he’s just using them for his own entertainment & doesn’t care about appropriation.
I would have expected it to be “rock, paper, scissors “ as the game the Doctor would choose.
The One Who Waits is The Master of Masters
Evan
@@EvelynLogan-od7zc yes, that is me, I am the Master of Masters.
@@evanroberts5045 🤔🙂
Were you from? Howdy 👋 from the states?what social media you got?🤨
@@EvelynLogan-od7zc Florida
@@evanroberts5045don't engage with this person, it's a scam account
Could the person who grabbed the gold tooth be a sutekh follower so it’d be the master and sutekh???
I don't think so. If Sutekh wanted to use the Master; we would have seen him. I think the BBC / Davis just wanted to make sure WE saw the tooth being taken away. It's a way for them to keep the Master 'in play' if you will
Could be Mrs. Flood.
I liked this scene cause it sets up two other villains for future use one we know and one we dont
“I came to this universe to… be Legend wait for it Dary Legendary
2:22 The easy choosing of the King of Hearts seems to suggest that the game was unfair. (How do we know he can't see both sides of all the cards? or didn't otherwise memorize their arrangement while shuffling, or shuffle them in a non-random manner from a known state.) At least The Doctor should have asked to shuffle them also, it is a bit of a puzzle that he selected a game with so much potential for trickery.
The Toymaker doesn't cheat, if he did there would be no point to the games. In the original story he even penalizes and restarts a game between the Firsts companions and the Toymakers own players because they realize the other two are cheating.He's already a reality warping godlike entity so if he was going to cheat to win at a game, he could have made his card the Ace of Hearts, Ace of Spades, even a special Toymaker card if he really just wanted to flex.
@@PugsWellington The Toymaker is always going against "the spirit of the rules" even as he follows them. He doesn't play for true fun or sport, he's playing to win, to conquer. He always stacks the factors not directly covered by the rules against the players. As he says, he's "a bad loser", but occasionally loses due to boredom. One has to wonder - what specifically allows The Doctor to beat him, when so many great others can't?
@@VJFranzKHe cheated.
@@KhanhNguyen-mh5echow the hell do you cheat at ball?
@@wchemik7777 He didn’t. He cheated in Tower stacking.
I'm interested in the storyline of the "one who waits". Obviously this is the next big bad in Dr. Who. If the Toymaker is scared of the "one who waits", then the "one who waits" will be a serious foe for the Dr.
Why did the Doctor basically throw the first game with the Toymaker by choosing that dumb 50/50 game? Why not choose catch or chess here?
Edit: My point is: why not at least try and win this first game? He won by playing catch later, so why not just do that now and save a lot of trouble?
Best odds. If he wins, he could banish the Toymaker if he doesn't invoke Bo3. If he loses, as you can see from the episode, he can invoke Bo3. Either way, it's the best he could do with such a powerful opponent
Because The Stake is, the The Toymaker TELLS him what he has done to The Human Race in the 21st Century.
That gets The Fate of Humanity OFF The Table.
He only chose catch at the end cuz there were two of him. And they only-barely won even then.
Frankly I’m convinced that challenging the Toymaker to a game makes him your equal for that game, to make it “fair”. Otherwise he could have just willed himself infinite stamina and superhuman reflexes at the end. In which case chess would still be a gamble, since he’d be the Doctors mental equal.
@@option3590 plus they already did Chess back with Matt Smith and Mr Clever
The Toymaker is bound to play any game fairly, so might as well choose the game with the least time and effort involved. That way, either Doctor would get to end this quickly, or be able to save energy for a third game if he had to invoke "best of three". It's good strategy.
UGH! I never noticed before, but when he flashes his gold tooth, if you pause it, it shows he has an unnatural amount of teeth! 😱
The Toymaster is one of the deadliest enemies the doctor has ever faced! Their battle will be legendary.
Draw a card. Ooh my card was higher.
Throw a ball. Oops i dropped the ball.
😐
The Toymaker isn't deadly because he can go pew pew into badass battles like the Daleks or the Cybermen. He's dangerous because he's unrestrained by reality and he plays games which are now trickier because back with the First Doctor, his games had convoluted rules that you can big brain your way into, these new games are pure chance. Deadly doesn't always come with a legendary epic battle, yknow.
I never watched the series (got sent here by the algorithm) but one of my favorite authors, Ben Aaronovitch, was a scriptwriter for this show.
I can definitely see how it shaped his style. This is really fascinating…
Neil Patrick Harris would have made a brilliant Master.
He''d've made a brilliant Doctor.
The one who waits could be thanos u never know he could wait
It would be funny if after all that shuffling the doctor told him he wanted to play dice
Who doesn't love Doogie Howser?
CHALLENGEEEEE!!!!
Wait for it
ACCEPTED!
Wasnt that only for legen- wait for it !...-dary. Legenary !
@@e.k2261
works either way!
I imagine that the most useful game to play to beat the Toymaker would be, D&D.
The one who waits to be beaten easily and lost any mystique he once had
So... Who else is here after legend of Ruby sunday?
me
Challenge him to a game of DND.
Donna can be the DM.
After a few months in, nobody will remember anymore why you are playing
The way the doctor speaks about who won the game only leads me to believe he was once the toymaker.. or will be the toymaker...
Same goes for the master & every other living being...
He says it in such a low-key way that I think a LOT of people missed it, his plan/game was essentially a takedown of cancel culture of any side indiscriminately...took the prevailing desire to be "right" and cursed everyone with what they wanted.
I really hope the One Who Waits is the Beast
The Beast was already destroyed by the 10/14 doctor
@@evanroberts5045 But it is said the Beast could never truly be destroyed.
"The devil is an idea. In all our civilizations, just an idea. But an idea is hard to kill. An idea can escape."
@@ragingphantom how many of them are left to kill? The physical ones? Because in Torchwood they dealt with an entity like the Beast and they said there were more sealed away across the universe, kill the physical creatures but they can survive as concepts and/or negative human emotions and what not?
@@evanroberts5045 The Tenth Doctor not the Fourteenth Doctor which you could mean by saying 10/14.
@@adamstewart9052 that’s the only way I could explain it, he is both #10 & #14
I really missed Tennant’s DONAAAAAAAA
I still feel like they could've had the Doctor draw a 10 instead of an 8, for some bonus symbolism.
The Toymaker refers to gambling with God. Who or what is God within the Doctor Who universe?. I know he wasn't referring to the Guardians of Time, as he referred to them separately🤔
We've already seen "the beast" which implies other entities beyond the setting's universe/multiverse. But The Doctor also states things about there being plenty of "gods" about. Whether RTD remembered that or not is probably the question.
I'm already running 😂
As she slowly walks while moving her arms wildly.
He suited up and then showed a lady his deck
Awesome
1st Doctor: Trilogic Game (Won).
14th Doctor: Card Game (Lost).
14th/15th Doctor: Ball Game (Won).
Best of Three! 😉
"What game shall we play" "Go Fish" ?
"what game shall we play" "Apple Bobbing".
Barney is really running out of ideas to pick up women at bars
Anyone else notice the unusually high number of teeth he has when he shows us the gold tooth?
Why does he look like barney Stinson 😂
This is barney after the doctor took his girlfriend 😂
Technically never trust a magician especially with cards like he may have had a "break" in them already lol
Notice how when the toymaker smiles to show off the gold tooth, he has way more teeth than a human does? Just a little touch to remind you this thing is certainly not one of us.
after watching The Legend of Ruby Sunday - geez this bloke has family problems.
Barney Stinson got Dark
Wild!
Actually..... The Toymaker won their original game, The Doctor just made his play (the Toymaker's play) while inside the Tardis, by copying his voice to make the Toymaker's ending move from inside the Tardis (as completing the game, win or lose, was going to destroy Toymaker's created universe with them inside- being inside the Tardis allowed them to escape)
Which Master was he playing with though???
In a way, The Toymaker wants to warn the Doctor about who is coming. But is so deeply afraid he can’t. So he just leaves a hint, so the Doctor can be aware. Not that it did much good.
I don't remember this episode, where was it?
neil patrick harris would make a great doctor
So we learn later in this episode that the doctor can spilt himself so what if the master is also part of the doctor
I accept the challange .
He said it guys :v