Sacraments #15: Tracing a Change in the Ends of Marriage to its Horrible Consequences w/ Fr. Loop
Вставка
- Опубліковано 17 чер 2022
- Fr. Loop is back to see how a simple change in the understanding of the ends, or purpose of Marriage can have extraordinarily far-reaching and disastrous effects for couples, families, and even whole countries. What happens when you switch the order of two of the purposes of marriage? We’ll see why this shift happened, what the reaction was, and how it actually caused Pope Paul VI to never want to write another encyclical. But first we’ll start with the consequences - and work our way back. Can this simple change explain the degradation of the modern family?
See all our episodes, and help support us:
sspxpodcast.com
Subscribe to the SSPX UA-cam channel here:
ua-cam.com/users/SSPXNewsEng...
Stay Connected on Social Media:
Twitter: / sspxen
Facebook: / sspxen
Instagram: / sspx_en
SSPX News Website:fsspx.news/en
Visit our website: sspx.org/en
I was born in 1964. I was raised in school believing in avoiding over-populating the world. It’s both sad and recognizable that it’s in Vatican 2 also. It’s a product of that hippie time 😡
Me too
Love is willing the good of the other, which means it’s an act of the will, not a feeling that goes away, right?
There used to be a lot of discussion about "Divorced and Remarried Catholics." The Church is currently suffering under a tidal wave of "Annulled and Remarried Catholics." Annulment is widely and correctly known as "Catholic Divorce." I wonder if anyone would have sufficient courage to investigate and publish statistics on the number of annulments that are followed by, and how quickly they are followed by another marriage.
Arthur- annulments are not “Catholic divorces”
When my husband and I wanted to get married he had already been married and divorced. In his first marriage neither he nor his wife were baptized and they were married by a JP at his aunt’s house. The Tribunal office granted him a Pauline Privilege saying they recognized his first marriage but it was not sacramental. This freed him to marry in the Catholic Church. That was 26 years ago. He also became Catholic and we had my stepson baptized and brought into the Catholic faith.
Before we got married, though, I told my husband, “Make sure this is what you want because I am Catholic and we only believe in taking one trip down the aisle.”
I became traditional at the age of 19. I drifted a little and got married in a NO church, doing diocesan “marriage prep” classes. I don’t remember much about it (ten years later) except NFPNFPNFPNFPNFP and LOTS of mutual edification of the spouses. I am sure having children was mentioned, but it certainly wasn’t a big focus. And this parish is probably considered the most “conservative” in a very large and wealthy southern CA diocese.
I received marriage prep from a priest in the most conservative NO church in my diocese who gave his very best to teach the traditional way. I am grateful for him!
However it seemed to me that many diocesan couples whom I talked to before my marriage who gave me a summary of their marriage prep and their own advice for my upcoming marriage can be summed up in: NFP.
It quickly turned to fit the new ideology and all the 'mutual help and love' priorities instead of the traditional view of ultimately the 'procreation and education of children' which is the vocation of the married life. I can't remember how many times fellow Catholics would tell me it's immature and unreasonable to 'breed like rabbits', really meaning: having more than a handful of children and not to have children towards menopause.
And so even before sacramental marriage prep in our engagement we were referred to a 'catholic' doctor to go to NFP classes. Which set the apparent expectation that we understood that a successful marriage began with practicing NFP for the first year(s) of marriage.
God help us, and Lord grant us many holy Catholic families!
I had EXACTLY the same experience, in 1989.
The growth in population in countries such as France, Belgium and Ireland is from muslim migrants. Islam is the fastest growing religion in Europe.
As an eligible guy, my search for a potential marriage partner lies exclusively within the "SSPX pool". Unless I am able to find a pious woman who shares my preference for the TLM, I will remain a solitary traveller. Currently with three children at home, I am not in any hurry either at this present time🤠! Blessings folks!
Velox Versutus Vigilans
I hope in your next podcast that you could spend a little time with compare/contrast between Casti Connubii and Familiaris Consortio.
grateful for the knowledge 🙏
At 36:00 and this is exactly why people lose faith. The loose goose Catholic Faith is no Faith at all.
"The first and primary purpose of marriage is to give life." The first and primary purpose of NFP is to not give life.
Don't quote me on this but I've heard that a lot of the anulments are granted to protestants wanting to marry a catholic after divorcing someone else
Quite enjoyed this chat. Disheartening that couples are not having children. I hope the next generation will continue to procreate and educate.
Also think about the unknown side affects of all those IM meds you were given as a kid and the said intent of those creating them deliberately causing a lack of children in the home. Add to that the complexity of trying to adopt and you have one messed up society for a good family. The new church isn’t giving the foundation needed to survive the onslaught. IMHO
So many moms at the kindergarten meet and greet shocked me with bold talk of their husband’s vasectomy. This was a “ catholic “ school .
Will there be any discussion or sharing on the Rite of Bethrothal in the next episode, or is this the last episode on the Sacrament of Matrimony? I'm very much interested in this, even if I'm already married in the Novus Ordo rite.
Pius XII de facto overturned the hierarchy of ends in 1951 midwives when he said for grave cause, marriage need not be procreation primary [NFP].
If NFP can be licit, then love can be independent. SSPX/FSSP are infected by this error.
Something also to consider, some may be registered at more than one diocese/ parish
Re: couples where one spouse wants to contracept against the other’s wishes - is this a mortal sin for both spouses even tho to refuse intimacy may lead to severe marital issues?
Using contraception during the marital act is a mortal sin. You don’t need to refuse intimacy, just the contraception. If you reflect on the attitude of sexuality in our time, you see that contraception led to a playboy attitude of men towards women. And, women towards men. The church was very wise in condemning it. Also, the fact is that since the contraception became widespread, abortion increased, not decreased. Children are not important anymore.
@@LJB456I agree however it’s not always that simple with spouses. I know of more than a few cases where the couple is no longer in agreement when it comes to contraception and it puts a lot of pressure on the spouse that wishes to remain faithful to the church’s teaching. I have heard conflicting things on this topic and am wondering what the traditional stance is especially considering refusing intimacy could lead to divorce or adultery.
@@Araedya Men too easily just run out and get a vasectomy. Then what do you do?
It wouldn't be a mortal sin for the spouse who does not want to contracept because that spouse would not have full consent of the will to commit the sin. They wouldn't be an accomplice either, I don't think, because their intent is to satisfy the marriage debt and not to contracept.
JMJ+ It's gotten so that I barely recognize the Church that JESUS brought into being and the Apostles taught to all who were willing and wanting to listen. Why does this Pope hate us so much that want to follow JESUS, not Satan? Why doesn't he care about my soul? I think they shamed Paul VI into silence.....so, I pray for his soul and may GOD have mercy on all who ask in truth for HIS forgiveness.....amen
Hence, decades later "Pride" Month. Cease! The heart of Jesus is with me! Thy Kingdom come!
This man should not make his opinions public since he has no clue as to the overwelming responsibility of parenthood
It is comical to listen to someone who has no clue acting like an expert.
Who are you referring to?
Maybe instead of having the outlandish concept of forcing women to have babies, one could just realize that couples have few kids because they cannot afford more, they cannot afford to have one paycheck couple, and they cannot afford daycare at $1200/month per kid, they cannot afford to send more than one kid to college.
Most young couples I know would have more kids if they could afford them.
Also, the definition of "Catholic country" from this priest as France, Spain, and Italy is fantastically racist. Philipines and Mexico are very Catholic, for instance, and they are over 2 children by mother. Are they not Catholic enough because their skin is too dark? I am not even talking about some African countries where catholicism is very strong and the birth rate is over 3.
Most annulments as I understand it are also by older people divorced for quite a while and wanting to rejoin the church. Saying that annulments encourage divorce is totally absurd.
Finally, all the young people I know in France are not married or get married after many years. Why? because divorcing is too hard. Forcing people in a dead-end relationship, visibly not blessed by God is not helping people get married.
Choose christ
if it was really a money issue the rich would have more kids, and in fact you see that the more income they have the fewer the kids
No one is forcing women to have babies. But the Church does have a guideline of morals if a couple cannot afford to have children for serious reasons. That guideline would be such examples as abstinence or temporary NFP.
Have you read the lives of Saints who weren't from rich families yet had many siblings? It can be done. For example St Catherine of Siena. But our materialistic society tells us that ones' family needs a lot more possessions than they really do.
I agree with you that most young couples I know also say they would have more children if it were easier; yet then they have vacations together every year, excess debt from college degrees they don't use anymore, new additions to wardrobes and discretionaries...how much does it really cost to add one more 'mouth to feed' for a young couple if that's what they're truly worried about?
Your accusation of racism against Fr is interesting. He provided a short list of examples of Catholic countries, if you know of more Catholic populated countries then good, he wasn't saying they weren't Catholic or worse Catholics in the Philippines or Africa. In any case it's not racism.
Finally, all the young 'couples' in France who apparently are living in sin together for many years before getting married, out of fear of how hard it is to get a divorce...why not just court a spouse before marriage, only if you are ready to make the commitment like wise tradition tells us? A lot seems topsy turvy from your perspective.
Catholic parents (and their children) would do much much better to NEVER send their babies and toddlers day care -
Mothers should be the primary carer of their children - its the feminist communist liberal agenda that has brainwashed / conditioned society into thinking womens careers take priority over raising children and that womans careers should be on an equal footing with men when children are born ... "cannot afford to have more children" is absurd bs excuse - couples cannot afford to have more children because they want to pay a stranger to have them minded while their mother works.
I know families with little money and several kids where the mother stays home to raise them. They do it affordably by having a small farm and involving the kids in helping maintain a cottage industry. The children receive an amazing education growing up on a farm working in a family business. They learn good values by helping their family survive and making ends meet. These overall benefits are much increased if the family homeschools.
There are many more benefits. Large Catholic families are better equipped to pass the Faith to their children and community. It’s far easier to grow spiritually when surrounded by a like-minded community of people who share the same Faith. Large families provide greater security for parents in their old age (the burden of kids providing for parents is spread out). Society is better off with large Catholic families taking up more space, influencing thought, and dominating social discourse and decision-making. Large families keep the Church supplied with new laity and religious. They are a tremendous resource to communities, and a visible example of sacrificial love.
It’s not wealth that makes people moral or godly but the Faith. The Faith has always been at its most powerful best in the presence of poverty. Large families who must struggle from time to time from lack of resources must learn to rely on God. That need leads to a lot of prayer.