I get intimidated by war game rule books, generally because they are written so differently (often poorly as a teaching tool, imo) than typical modern board games. This video is a great reminder that board games can be intimidating, and we need to consider the people we are introducing a game too, and THEIR level of preparedness, not just yours.
Games that are too heavy intimidate me. I used to think that I wanted that, but as life gets busier I don’t have time for tons of rules reading. I am gravitating towards quicker games.
A handful of modern boardgames are indeed catered to seasoned players. This means they've seen and been through older games, meaning new games that appeal to them need to have something different.... and often times the answer most designers go with is to add more to it. This is akin to how many people think back to how times in the past were simpler, even outside of games, but life in general. Casual gamers in some sense have extra homework to do to pick up all the new things that modern games bring to the table. I didn't know about auctioning and economy games back then. Definitely starting smaller with lower complexities is a straightforward way to move people into more complex games as you ease in new mechanisms.
@aos-archive totally agree. That's where patience and awareness come in when introducing games. You can't push folks into the deep end without knowing if they are up to the challenge.
I'm not intimidated by games so much as disinterested in certain games that seem like more work than fun. If I'm supposed to build my army, or my robot, or track my expenses while growing a business, it needs to be a simplified version of those things. If not, then I expect a paycheck at the end of the game!
Great list, and a valuable message. For some people (especially introverts), just the idea of putting your intelligence to the test in front of strangers (by playing a game with them) can be intimidating. It's hard to remember that "it's just a game", and people build up an idea that they will look foolish and be ridiculed. Co-ops can help with this, but not always. Personally, I find social deduction to be intimidating. I don't like to be deceitful, and I don't want to mess the game up for everyone else by failing to lie well.
Oh my goodness, YES! Just got Fields of Green expecting a relaxing farming game to play with friends' kids. It is so much more complex than I thought. I may come up with my own rules for the kids - like seeing who can make the biggest fields or animal collections (roughly the ribbons in the Grand Faire expansion).
Im back! What intimidates me the most is learning a game! I dont think I'm very good at reading rule books 😥. But some how I figure it out, with videos and reading the rules and going back and forth. Funny thing, my brother is also a board gamer, but he almost exclusively plays war games - he's working on designing one! And he loves to read rule books. I guess we just have different brains!
Some rulebooks are written by people who assume the reader is already familiar with mechanisms, and word it accordingly to not feel like this overexplain things.
Great video on a good topic! I am with Alicia in preferring mid to light games. I do love Ark Nova and it is the heaviest game I play. I play a lot of games but rarely try very heavy games as I just don’t find they are worth it to me, esp as I am unlikely to play them many more times. Also, good point that we all can find certain mechanics more intimidating (I too don’t like auctions or area control). Thanks.
Really appreciate you folks talking about the challenges of learning complex games. I feel that some designers ruin their game by adding complexity just to prevent some obsessive players from finding a sure fire way to win with certain overpowered strategies. I would prefer that they design for a more general audience who just want to enjoy playing the game a few times a year.
I also like Ark Nova. I find that learning a game takes multiple steps. First, I watch a video with a setup and a playthrough. Then a quick read of the manual followed by a 2-handed solo game. This might end before the end if I feel lost or uncertain about a rule(s). Then back to a playthrough and a closer read of the manual. Then I play again and might watch another playthrough to make sure I didn't forget something. Once you learn it wrong, it's difficult to fix. There might be additional playthroughs if the solo mode requires different rules. For example, "Tank Duel" was a tough one for me to play solo with any confidence. I had to create a series of cards with all the steps. A game that is difficult for me is "Heaven and Ale". Learning it is not too bad, but playing it well is another thing.
I sometimes get intimated by jargon from more experienced gamers because I'm not super familiar with gaming terms. For example, I'm not 100% sure what an abstract game is or an asymmetric game. When folks drop those terms, my brain goes "Oh they're serious" and then I get a bit intimidated.
@JymmiF never be afraid to ask about an aspect of a board game that you don't understand completely, whether if it is concerning a mechanic or a board game term. If a more experienced gamer is teaching, that person should be receptive to questions. An abstract game is one that is more about the mechanics and less about theme, like chess. An asymmetric board game is a game where the players have different powers/abilities, like Root. I hope that helps. Thanks for watching!
I teach Ark Nova, but have only watched Evacuation a little. Ark Nova is one where I lightly review general actions, then just show how a turn plays. Some games are simpler to see them in action and Ark Nova is one of them. The game itself is simple at the core, but the numerous cards and minor options can be overwhelming. I don't want players to get bogged down trying to remember the little options. I want them to focus on the core mechanics.
I get intimidated by war game rule books, generally because they are written so differently (often poorly as a teaching tool, imo) than typical modern board games. This video is a great reminder that board games can be intimidating, and we need to consider the people we are introducing a game too, and THEIR level of preparedness, not just yours.
@WatchItPlayed true words spoken!
Games that are too heavy intimidate me. I used to think that I wanted that, but as life gets busier I don’t have time for tons of rules reading. I am gravitating towards quicker games.
@ichiban5 totally understand!
A handful of modern boardgames are indeed catered to seasoned players. This means they've seen and been through older games, meaning new games that appeal to them need to have something different.... and often times the answer most designers go with is to add more to it.
This is akin to how many people think back to how times in the past were simpler, even outside of games, but life in general. Casual gamers in some sense have extra homework to do to pick up all the new things that modern games bring to the table. I didn't know about auctioning and economy games back then.
Definitely starting smaller with lower complexities is a straightforward way to move people into more complex games as you ease in new mechanisms.
@aos-archive totally agree. That's where patience and awareness come in when introducing games. You can't push folks into the deep end without knowing if they are up to the challenge.
I'm not intimidated by games so much as disinterested in certain games that seem like more work than fun. If I'm supposed to build my army, or my robot, or track my expenses while growing a business, it needs to be a simplified version of those things. If not, then I expect a paycheck at the end of the game!
Hey Mr.Dwayne and Mrs.Sherrill this is Antoine hope you guys are doing well.
Great list, and a valuable message. For some people (especially introverts), just the idea of putting your intelligence to the test in front of strangers (by playing a game with them) can be intimidating. It's hard to remember that "it's just a game", and people build up an idea that they will look foolish and be ridiculed. Co-ops can help with this, but not always.
Personally, I find social deduction to be intimidating. I don't like to be deceitful, and I don't want to mess the game up for everyone else by failing to lie well.
This was a fun video!! I'm like Aleicia, I like a lighter game. But it was interesting to hear your thoughts on heavier games. Thanks for the fun!
@@kayhcole thank you for watching!
Oh my goodness, YES! Just got Fields of Green expecting a relaxing farming game to play with friends' kids. It is so much more complex than I thought. I may come up with my own rules for the kids - like seeing who can make the biggest fields or animal collections (roughly the ribbons in the Grand Faire expansion).
@@birchlover3377 that's a great idea! You are aware of who you're playing with.
Im back! What intimidates me the most is learning a game! I dont think I'm very good at reading rule books 😥. But some how I figure it out, with videos and reading the rules and going back and forth.
Funny thing, my brother is also a board gamer, but he almost exclusively plays war games - he's working on designing one! And he loves to read rule books. I guess we just have different brains!
@@kayhcole you and Alicia are in the same boat when it comes to learning a game.
Some rulebooks are written by people who assume the reader is already familiar with mechanisms, and word it accordingly to not feel like this overexplain things.
Great video on a good topic! I am with Alicia in preferring mid to light games. I do love Ark Nova and it is the heaviest game I play. I play a lot of games but rarely try very heavy games as I just don’t find they are worth it to me, esp as I am unlikely to play them many more times. Also, good point that we all can find certain mechanics more intimidating (I too don’t like auctions or area control). Thanks.
@@guandjs I'm not alone! Thanks for watching!
Really good discussion!
@eVanDiesel thank you, Evan! Say hi to Missy & Grayson!
Really appreciate you folks talking about the challenges of learning complex games. I feel that some designers ruin their game by adding complexity just to prevent some obsessive players from finding a sure fire way to win with certain overpowered strategies. I would prefer that they design for a more general audience who just want to enjoy playing the game a few times a year.
I also like Ark Nova. I find that learning a game takes multiple steps. First, I watch a video with a setup and a playthrough. Then a quick read of the manual followed by a 2-handed solo game. This might end before the end if I feel lost or uncertain about a rule(s). Then back to a playthrough and a closer read of the manual. Then I play again and might watch another playthrough to make sure I didn't forget something. Once you learn it wrong, it's difficult to fix. There might be additional playthroughs if the solo mode requires different rules. For example, "Tank Duel" was a tough one for me to play solo with any confidence. I had to create a series of cards with all the steps. A game that is difficult for me is "Heaven and Ale". Learning it is not too bad, but playing it well is another thing.
Yea the heavy games are intimidating. For me it is the re teach that I hate. So I try to limit heavy games in the house.
@daryleg the cool thing about a game like Ark Nova, remembering how to take actions is easy. Remembering how to score points to win is the challenge.
@@blackboardgaming5348 true!
Most bidding and bluffing games intimidate me.
@@keithrex1481 and negotiating.
I sometimes get intimated by jargon from more experienced gamers because I'm not super familiar with gaming terms. For example, I'm not 100% sure what an abstract game is or an asymmetric game. When folks drop those terms, my brain goes "Oh they're serious" and then I get a bit intimidated.
@JymmiF never be afraid to ask about an aspect of a board game that you don't understand completely, whether if it is concerning a mechanic or a board game term. If a more experienced gamer is teaching, that person should be receptive to questions.
An abstract game is one that is more about the mechanics and less about theme, like chess.
An asymmetric board game is a game where the players have different powers/abilities, like Root.
I hope that helps. Thanks for watching!
Which took longer to learn, Ark Nova or Evacuation?
@donnakeferlis1649 So, I learned Ark Nova through a friend's teach at our game night. Evacuation I learned on my own. So Evacuation.
I teach Ark Nova, but have only watched Evacuation a little. Ark Nova is one where I lightly review general actions, then just show how a turn plays. Some games are simpler to see them in action and Ark Nova is one of them. The game itself is simple at the core, but the numerous cards and minor options can be overwhelming. I don't want players to get bogged down trying to remember the little options. I want them to focus on the core mechanics.
@@xragg agreed. How to play is easy in Ark Nova, but it's a lot to pay attention to to do well.
Many games are intimidating. I will avoid Arc Nova mostly because the long thength and chance for negative score after all that time.
@@jamesbrazeal3847 Understandable. But I really love the challenge.