I love it when Herb is on! And I’ve been into 2 channel audio for many years, and have had all kinds of amps, speakers, turntables, DACs etc etc. And I’ve never had anything that sucked, something that others needed to be warned about. I’ve had stuff that I preferred over other stuff, but that’s probably more my personal taste in music as opposed to something being wrong the gear.
I agree. The biggest negative I see in the audio world is generally dealing with over priced equipment. By this I mean an amp or other piece of gear that sounds excellent but is costing twice as much or more then another piece of equipment that sounds equally as well. One example I had personally when I used to service audio equipment had to do with cables.. I had a customer that broke the connectors on the ends of a pair of 2 meter interconnect cables. I repaired the cables and was astonished to learn from the customer that they cost something like $1600. In my test system I had an excellent sounding, inexpensive pair of 2 meter DH Labs BL1 interconnects. I did an AB test and to my amazement, the BL-1 cables sounded better, especially in the upper midrange and high frequencies. The kicker is that the BL-1 cables cost only $200.00. Now, for me that is quite a difference in price and there was no way I could justify my customer's $1,600 interconnects when in two test systems I used to try both pairs of cables, the $200 cables actually sounded better. So I have found that just because a piece of audio gear is expensive does not mean it is going to sound any better or even as good as stuff costing less. So, I do tend to look at reviews but also know that the true judge of how good any audio gear is are your own ears..
@@archangele1 You know if you really did service audio equipment then uh ... you'd know why things have a higher price. Radio Shack started the low priced, high end stereo system and you know comparing their stuff, you know, there was a flagship launch, followed by a cheapened version vastly inferior in build quality but as you say, sounded just as good. But you know, there were fewer cycles on the power switch and it would fail sooner. The flagship had Omron brand and the mass-market version had no brand. So you know, low priced cables sounded better with a test system that you had than the ones at a higher price but the buyer never chose cheap, he chose dear and still managed to break them! I mean who breaks such things? We see this, incredible holes in the veneer of Tannoy Edinburgh, what are these owners doing? How do they gouge out a veneer a quarter inch in thickness? It's not just about judging by ear, SONY V-FET used to sound wonderful for just one year, that was the warranty and they dropped like flies thereafter as if designed to. 😁
@@keplermission I have seen garbage designs and build quality and yes, that is why some stuff is very inexpensive. But I have also seen some very expensive equipment that was built no better then other audio equipment that was maybe 1/3rd the cost.
@@archangele1 Yeah ... late 1990s Luxman were a case in point, and many others like the Electrocompaniet, are made of low quality parts but still deliver a sound that competes on their high price and the Carver stuff was a classic example of cheap components with record profits. They had very nice front panels but nobody ever saw inside. The Carver from 1987 had a front panel looked titanium but when you got underneath it, it had changed to light blue. But Bob Carver patented the audio signature replication know-how, he claimed to be able to recreate any hi-end sound at a fraction of the price.
So, what if every restaurant reviewer and every movie reviewer published positive reviews about every restaurant and every movie? That doesn't really help the consumer, does it? How does that help me decide where spend my money? Publishing all positive reviews does a disservice to the reader -- as well as to the equipment manufacturers that actually produce an outstanding product. In a magazine like Stereophile, where every review is positive (and every manufacturer gets to publish gushing thank-you notes about their positive reviews *in the same freakin' issue* -- hello, journalistic integrity?), how does that help me decide what to buy or what could sound good in my system? Frankly, I think negative reviews are much more fun to read than positive ones. People who write negative reviews aren't trying to prove anything, Herb. They are simply doing their job as a reviewer.
"So, what if every restaurant reviewer and every movie reviewer published positive reviews about every restaurant and every movie? " - one is much more likely to come across a bad meal than one is to come across an objectively bad piece of (main equipment) hifi gear. Name a high-end speaker that is bad (as in: does not work or sounds off-putting to a group of humans), can you?
Writing negative reviews is a real slog, and very much not fun for the reviewer if they take their job seriously. I've done it, makes you hate the job and listening to music.
I was in the market for a fairly low powered amp to pair with my very efficient floor standers. Eventually my choice came down to one based on reviewers’ articles/videos, Steve’s included. And then I read Herb’s. His enthusiasm for the amp grew as the article progressed. He even challenged himself by pulling out some tunes that he thought might be difficult to reproduce. He was so impressed that he gave the amp a hearty endorsement. I bought one. He was right. It delivered the quality of sound I’d hoped it would with my speakers. What a match. Thank you, Herb!
This discussion was informative, entertaining, and truthful. Something I consider when buying something new for my stereo is whether it was reviewed by any reviewer at all. No review of a product, especially a product that has been around for a while, is nearly as bad as a negative or bad review. If reviewers across the industry are not making the time to write about it, I am not inclined to take a chance on it.
I think that’s a good presentation from a reviewer point of view. Very valid. It might be good to mention why consumers look, for …bad… reviews. Maybe not bad but honest - bad or good. When I, as a consumer, look for a product and only find say 2 good reviews. Then I do not know if 20 reviewers looked at it and 18 of them did not like it and 2 liked. Or only two looked at the product and they all liked it. So, while 100% understand why reviewers will want to avoid something as touchy as bad reviews. But it’s sad for consumers and I hope with time this will change. And it’s not about being objective… There is no such thing. But if I find a reviewer that seem to align with my taste, I would love to know not just what that reviewer liked but also what the same reviewer did not like…. It’s not that piece of equipment is good or bad - it’s whether it matches reviewer preferences.
It’s always wonderful to hear and see Herb, he’s such a treasure. Honest enthusiastic reviews are always appreciated but they should always be tempered by revelations about possible shortcomings or caveats so potential buyers don’t make an expensive mistake.
The notion that Herb does not have standing to write a negative review is laughable. What right does the movie reviewer or restaurant reviewer or any other reviewer have to write a negative review? They have their expertise, their sensibility, their talent with language, and the validation of an audience who resonate with their arguments and evidence.The notion that Herb does not have the “ right” to question a manufacturer shows the degree to which has been captured by the industry. It is not the mark of a good reviewer to be so submerged in self-doubt.
Herb has nailed how I use reviewer’s output. Over time I tease out the reviewer’s priorities and general audio likes and dislikes, comparing, where possible, a review from another known writer or vlogger. Knowing what my own dislikes and likes are, I narrow the list of what I’ll listen to or try out at home. I’ve also learned the limitations of audiophile reviews the hard way. This was after buying a digital product recommended in Stereophile that spewed interference that impaired FM reception through my tuner. Fortunately, I worked at a company that had a small Electromagnetic Interference Lab. There I found that the digital product did not meet the most basic FCC emissions requirements for all consumer electronics. The fix was any easy clamp-on filter, something obvious in the lab, but for the average consumer? Sometimes the Consumer Reports approach saves some consumer grief!
Thank you Steve and Herb for clarifying your methods and objectives in conducting product reviews. I thoroughly enjoy both your reviews. I now understand what Herb is focusing on when reviewing, and it has only increased my trust in his evaluations.
This was just as frustrating celestial conversation that went in circles. End users seek honest opinions & information on the products that interest us. These products tend to be highly priced, & there is a juggernaut of PR plowing them through the marketplace. If honest reviewers are just going to insist on wearing a halo & refuse to type a negative word, yet they are outnumbered 10 to 1 by reviewers who are corporate shills who will gladly write a positive review on any piece o' crap while eating their $500 lunch with the PR guy (or gal), we have a major black hole in the community. We need you guys to get off your high horses & learn to be more CRITICALLY analytical of the equipment that comes across your desk. Thank you very much guys.
It's a hifi thing... All their seats is covered in tubes, records and cables. My visitors get the option of moving stuff to sit down. They usually dont bother and just stand around. Makes em leave real quick.
Ughhhh.. Rationalization: The action of attempting to explain or justify behavior or an attitude with logical reasons, even if these are not appropriate.. Two very likable people, jumping through very embarrassing hoops.
I'm so glad film reviewers, music reviewers, restaurant reviewers and car reviewers don't take the same line as you guys. We are just looking for honesty, if something is bad, poor, sub-standard in either build quality, sound quality, reliability, then I think you have a responsibility to tell us that, and not duck the issue with mumbo jumbo such as "who am I to say I know better?". It just reinforces the whole "you scratch my back....." thing that a lot of people believe takes place in the hi-fi industry.
@@SteveGuttenbergAudiophiliac Spot on Steve, they do; and part of that is knowing that a reviewer is not afraid to say when something doesn't meet expectations in some way or other. Honest feedback to the manufacturer is a gift, not something to be avoided. It's also a gift to your audience as they will avoid those products. Your explanation of why your reviews are always positive comes down to that you only review products that you like, That makes sense as it saves you time reviewing stuff you don't like and keeps you from biting the hand that feeds you, but it doesn't make for a well-rounded reviewer in my view. I do find your reviews helpful nonetheless, as at least I know you like the stuff you are reviewing and I watch for the music recommendations mostly, but I'm not sure why you put out a video on this topic, and invite comments, when it is clear from your responses to those who hold a differing view that you unhappy that they disagree and are essentially telling them to watch another channel - very odd!
Regarding negative reviews, I always say what's the point of being a reviewer if you don't talk about the positive and negative? If it's always all positive, then you are nothing but a marketing influencer. It's perfectly acceptable to say you didn't like something and why. Not necessarily bashing the design or technicals of a product to seem superior than the designer, just offering your assessment.
Excellent. Herb! Dusty gear! I always feel bad my equipment gets so dusty. But today I feel if the mighty Herb Reichert fights the dust wars too, I don't have to feel so bad. The Artist's paintbrush to remove dust! (me too! same kind, an old Japanese sumi brush works well) Herb's painting - tiger/skeleton, man Herb, your Art... I always watch for glimpses when we get to see your place; it grabs me and shakes me, makes me go make my own Art. (I'm a painter/music lover/audio enthusiast too too and read both audio reviews and art reviews. Things connect in these passions) Steve, compliments laying back as you did here and letting Herb have the headspace to share his beautiful language in realtime. Really appreciate you both.
No one objects to negative reviews of movies, cars, music, restaurants etc. In the best case they both serve as warning and can inspire the purveyor to improve. Then again, perhaps the choice of title of 'reviewer' instead of critic is enlightening, as a 'reviewer' doesn't necessary understand their role to provide criticism.
I am with Herb and Steve here. If you’re reviewing something from Apple or some other megacompany, well it’s ok to be clear. But there are many small audio companies, all of which I would venture are passionate about what they are trying to do, and who in my opinion deserve the benefit of the doubt. A bad review would immediately put the nail in the coffin.
@@yantrussart6584 Maybe it was not underperforming just not their taste. There's plenty of pieces that are not underperforming but I just simply don't care for.
@@miguelbarrio if a piece of gear is not to their taste, they can simply say so and we'll understand. I'm not asking for hit pieces, just the truth, good or bad.
Great video, Steve. We have all heard gear which we would not give house room. Harder for you guys to say so when you are reviewing. Delighted to see and hear Herb, I have only read his articles in the past. His amp design "Flesh and Blood" published way back in the days of "Sound Practices" inspired me to build my own tube gear (7 amps and counting). 👍
Steve and Herb both bolster one another's breadth of experience. As fully aged audio buds, their sharing of perspectives is priceless context to each other's respective place in hifi. That, and pro coax platforms can be stunning, doing so many things right.
People rely upon reviewers to give honest even negative reviews to offset the false positive or overly effusive reviews by reviewers who have an agenda, want to help friends in the industry, or other reasons apart from helping people. If six reviewers with an agenda give a glowing review of speaker A and Steve does not review it because he thinks it is a bad product, all we have are 6 positive reviews and no honest imsight
Always glad to see Herb! But, when it comes to negative reviews, you're going to have to do them. "The Corvair is not the best but the seats are amazing. It does certain things well." ....helps no one.
Bought the Lounge Audio Copla and LCR III unheard based on a prior video Steve and Herb. They are magic. Thanks! Made my day to see Herb with his Copla.
When Steve quoted Mark Levinson it really hit home. If you reach the point when you're no longer listening to music, but to stereo equipment, you defeat the whole purpose of the hobby.
Another great interview. I read Herb's review of the Elekit 300B amp and found especialy "entertaining and informative." I've built several of their kits and have always been very pleased with the experience and end result. In fact I'm starting to look at selling a push-pull amp of theirs I've usedvfor several years so I can afford to buy the 300B kit while it is still around. Love your interviews, Steve, keep it up.
You know Single-Ended gear needs totally different speakers from push/pull? That name Gist is Welsh and I'm thinking maybe Walter is living in the United Kingdom. If you have push/pull there are different you know, Damping Factor suited speakers. Single-Ended usually has the stiff, accordion type cone suspension and if it's DF under 1, usually it's just one pleat. ELAC of England have very good Single-Ended speakers, very loud for the input. These are worth trying. Then Push/pull has other speakers, it's very complicated to get the best match and maybe you need to do less building and more reviewing.
All the modern neutral speakers I have gotten in the last 20 years have inspired me to listen to music I never would have before. Mostly because I listen more and would otherwise end up in a repeat loop. When listening so much, one can get listeners block where you know you want to listen to something, but have no idea what. Another telling trait with overexposure is, choosing mixed random new music as a way of life.
Road & Track and Car & Driver seem free to do relatively negative car reviews, but then if they don't like the new Corolla they're not going to jeopardize Toyota's business. Stereophile and The Absolute Sound both did some negative reviews back in the digest days, when the magazines were supported by subscriptions.
Interesting you feel that way. So you're saying the subscribers no longer are the main source of revenue, and therefore get what they deserve! In any case, if you don't believe the reviews stop reading or watching them. Please.
Honest reviews and pointing out flaws is critical. I had once a Thorens TD203. Putting the record cleaning brush on it stops the platter within about 1-2 revolutions. Motor is pathetically weak, basically useless. That TT has a bunch of other problems, so a piece of junk. This is an objectively bad product mechanically. Nobody pointed that out. THAT is a problem, and a disservice to the community.
OK …. I KNEW the Lounge Copla silver was special. Definitely keeping mine, and my wife loves adjusting it during our listening sessions. What a great visit! I bet you guys had a great time!
In year 2000 I bought a Music Fidelity A200 integrated amp because of Sam Tellig's review. I still use it to this day. Then in 2017 I bought Klipsch Heresy III based on Steve's review. Loved them. Replaced them with Forte IV. I've owned many other things, but my longest lasting components also had good reviews. Reviewers are certainly not infallible but they're a great data point or guide to put you onto things.
Herb & Steve "The Dynamic Duo in Audiophile Review Land". These guys are right as we spend our time watching them "Entertain and Inform". I agree with Herb that most products above a certain price point are pretty darn good and the bottom line is our ears either like the sound or we don't and our choice of gear is really a personal choice of the music we listen to. A very entertaining 32:13!
I really enjoy a balanced review, the phrase negative review is not good, but balanced is nice. If only positive, it might be entertaining, but not useable for beeing well informed. I really like the comment: "but Steve - what do you really think....?"
Thanks for this video. I have an audio review channel as well and currently have a new DAC in my possession that retails for over 6K and frankly it doesn't sound very good. I've been having this moral dilemma about whether to trash this product or just pass on reviewing it altogether. Though I decided to not review it, this video confirmed I made the right choice. Keep up the good work
With respect, you made the wrong choice for those people who may now spend 6k on a sub par product and could have been warned. If you are not prepared to do negative reviews you are only doing half a reviewers job. The term moral cowardice applies. I appreciate and understand that you may be trying to grow a channel or make a living, but if you are only going to review things you like you should make that clear on your channel description.
@@jimfarrell4635 I've done three negative reviews in the past, one of which bothers me to this day even though I reviewed the headphone honestly. In the case of this DAC, in conversations with three other people who have this DAC, my experiences do not match up with theirs, leading to the speculation that my review unit was somehow defective. Rather than doing a negative review of DAC that may or may not be working as intended, I had simply declined to do the review, then this video dropped and Herb and Steve's comments really applied to how I've been feeling. I get your point and I have heard your opinion echoed by others, but in this case I felt that not reviewing it was the best way to proceed.
@@headkarma Thanks for explaining. I know this is a contentious issue and appreciate the difficulties reviewers face. I just find it frustrating that there are so few out there willing to be completely honest with their viewers or readers.
What about credibility? Is that not the real issue?. Being extremely positive ALL THE TIME about products comes across as a bit suspicious. Is it so different when you review films,books,plays etc. What is the credibility of critics who are never critical?
I enjoyed this one a lot. For those who want black and white reviews try Amit at Audio Science Review. He doesn’t pull any punches. If he doesn’t like a product he is very up front about it and explains why. He is very measurement driven and then offers his listening experience. He buys what he reviews and people lend him equipment to review. His resume indicates his qualifications and approach to reviewing products.
As a music journalist for the past 30 years, I’ve found the primary objective I’ve looked for in all the criticism in my section is fair and honest. It’s our job to get in and adjudge whether the fans of a particular thing (music, in our case) are getting a fair shake - yes or no. Honesty is the key, and I’ve been successful in that regard. Negative reviews for the sake of being inflammatory is not only poor writing, but intellectually lazy and boring (I’m looking at you Pitchfork).
Ok screw this, I was just wondering if I should unsubscribe from Stereophile recently, and this video gave me confirmation that I should. Reviews are not entertainment, they are meant to be objective. If it's bad, say so. If something doesn't measure up to its price point, say so. I've stopped reading the issues because I already know every single review is going to be 100% positive anyway, so really what's the point? New Gryphon speakers? Best sound I ever heard in my room!! New Wilson speakers? Never heard anything sound this good in a long while!! New Class D amp? Class D never sounded this good!!! As good as any Class A/B amp I ever owned!!! Oh for fks sake, Chatgpt could write more original reviews. There are lots of people who rely on these reviews to make big purchase decisions without having the chance to actually audition equipment. We're talking about someone's hard earned money. And then here you have a reviewer who thinks it's all entertainment.
Why not both informative and entertaining? While your point re. not being 100% positive in reviews is merited, there needs to be some entertainment value in these articles for the reviewer business model to survive- and new gear won't just be shipped to hobbyists for forum and youtube posts. The business model really requires the public to read a lot more reviews than just the gear they may realistically buy. If people only read the audiophile gear articles that practically pertain to their potential choices, then the fairly small circulation and revenue of the audio sites out there would go close to zero. Plus- the audiophile domain is a hobby. Do you really want to strip the entertainment value out of hobby-related reading? Every other hobby has entertaining professional writing around it, as least all the ones of which I know; the reviewing establishment doesn't exist in the void you may wish it does.
@@maxhirsch7035 well the problem is, it is no longer entertaining when you already know what a review is going to read like (spoiler: all positive), before you even read it. It has seriously become so utterly predictable these days. Is this entertaining? A well-rounded review explaining the negatives of a product, or even an outright negative review, would actually be much more entertaining imo. It actually further extends the discourse. An example would be Jay's review of Mofi Sourcepoint, that got many people agreeing/disagreeing and sharing different viewpoints.
@@meesmo4 A paying job ins't suppose to be all fun and games. and it's bad that they care more about a company that sells junk over customers that end up buying junk that was never reviewed.
@@rockmusicvideoreviewer896 exactly, they choose to care about not hurting small businesses that sell junk, instead of protecting their readers who actually subscribed to their magazine. How ridiculous is this?
Trust is earned when speaking in truth. If something sounds good by your values, and you say it’s positive, that’s good. But if it doesn’t sound good or poor value for cost, and you don’t highlight that, then your not to be trusted. Trust: when a person behaves as expected. I’ll trust you if your authentic.
I just want HONEST reviews. If you think something sounds crap tell me, if you think it's the best sounding thing ever tell me. What you call "negative" or "bad" I call HONEST. It's a subjective game this audio stuff, so tell me your HONEST subjective opinion, don't disguise your honest opinion in ambiguous language just because you don't want to write a "negative" or "bad" review, to me that's dishonest and I can't trust you.
Thanks for this. Now having 3 sets of speakers and headphones, I found some of Herb’s comments and the quote from Levinson to reflect my experience regarding synergy, music and preferences; all part of the fun, does not have to break the bank and part of the enjoyment of both refining one’s listening / sonic palate.
In reviewing Herb's Music System you forgot to mention how much of his well selected gear is personally purchased . It seems likely that a prominent Reviewer wouldn't spend much his own scarce Dollars . I appreciate the reveal about gear making certain recordings sound particularly good . Thank you for this important Jouralism . Tony in Florida
Always good to hear both of you. I follow reviewers who’s taste is different than mine, that for me equals a negative review and conversely, follow reviewers, who’s taste aligns with my own. Keep up the good work. Montreal, Can.
Ok. Few negative reviews are justified. But...mostly reviewers are reviewing the same: Buchart, Denafrips, Schiit, PS, Pass Labs, KEF, Klipsch...where are Tannoy, Cambridge, Leben, Naim reviews?
Steve, a few years back you reviewed the Outlaw 2160 with using Maggie’s. And upon your review I bought the unit and have been very pleased with it…. So Thank You….
I love this. The reality is.... most products these days are good. It's about what's best for you. I recently bought some wireless speakers that everyone said were objectively the best, ignoring the part where everyone said they were very bass forward. I got them and didn't like them becaue they were just too bassy for me and my music. I didn't use the reviews right -- I would have been much better off with the "second best" speakers which were less bass-forward. Point is, you need to read reviews and think about *yourself* not the star rating. On thee flip side, my Kanto YU-6s I saw things about the sound in the reviews where I was like, "well... they're saying it's an issue, but actually that sounds like I'll like them," and yep, I love them. A great review tells you about the product so you can decided for yourself.
I listened to my forever speaker at an audio show and lusted over it for many years. I finally was able to get them, a used set. Have been enjoying them for the last number of years. I ran across a negative review Stereophile did and was amazed at how off kilter it was. Everything they wrote I did not experience. If I had read it before my purchase I still would not have shelved my interest in these speakers as I heard them in person and it was love at first listen. By the way Steve I have used many of your product recommendations to guide purchases with no regrets, thanks.
I just went back over the weekend and watched a bunch of Herb stuff on UA-cam as it is all so great! I hope you guys do some more videos together soon. I am super intrigued by that Elekit amp, think that is going to be my next big purchase/ project.
In my own case, I get really excited about great products in audio. I am a much better reviewer when I am enthusiastic. So I totally get Herb’s viewpoint.
Instead of thinking about positive vs negative reviews, it’s more enlightening to think in terms of comparative reviews. Back in the day, we used to have a couple of mainstream audio magazines. All of their reviews were basically the same. They would do their measurements, talk vaguely about the sound and, at the end, would conclude by saying something like: “You wouldn’t be embarrassed to have this in your system.” Or “This would be a fine product to fill out any setup.” The joke in the audiophile community was that their reviews were like: “Of all the amps I’ve heard, this is definitely one of them.” The reasoning for their non-committal reviews was that most equipment was of uniformly high quality. If that was true, then what is the point of reviews? Just find the product that has the features you want and you’re done. As Steve and Herb said, 99% of the equipment today is of good quality. And Steve chooses components that he is motivated to review, eliminating many of the potentially lower quality products. So what is the point of a review then? Well, you can have 2 equally good products, such as the Magnapan or Klipsch. You can’t say either one is better, although they are certainly different. The job of the reviewer is to try to explain the relevant differences. You will need to know practical stuff such as needing a beefy amp to drive the Maggies, but being able to plug in a low power amp for the Klipsch. If you want to crank up loud rock n’ roll or if solid bass is important to you, then the Klipsch would likely be the best choice. You don’t have to agree with the reviewer. You just have to understand their preferences. Then you can decide what you would like or not based on the review.
Indeed , some amplifiers make me listen to music I didn't want to listen for many years before.......suddenly what i found being boring capted my attention because the amp/system made me understand the music.........and invited me to listen to that kind of music .
Not everyone can audition gear. People place trust in reviewers, especially from publications with a good reputation. If not coming clean to listeners/viewers about products the reviewer thinks are overpriced or poor, leads to people buying them. This seems morally suspect.
Great video by two of the most knowledgeable guys in audio, the only thing I would add is that you have to careful as a component that doesn't work in your system may well work in someone else's. Most high end stuff is pretty good so you have to be unlucky to pick a duffer!🙂
Fun fact: MUSIC reviews are much more often negative. "This record wasn't all that bad, if they would apologize for their last 10 records" (sic!) and stuff like that. So while the audiophiles are used to read bad reviews, the stuff they put the most money in, THE GEAR, gets reviewed so euphemistic, it's sometimes hard to tell whether its stellar performance deserves an oscar, or if it's the reviewer who gets the award this time.
Interestingly, though, in the popular press, music reviewers tend to be substantially kinder to releases than film critics are. I think part of this is the selection bias for who reviews which genres; the fact that the scale of most music releases, particularly indie ones, are much more financially modest in terms of overhead, compared with big films, and thus less compromised by the financial mis/considerations of execs in the companies releasing them; the way that music critics may over-identify with certain aspects of the genre as part of their image - personally identifying with bands they review much more often than generalist film critics may identify with directors/actors/production people involved; etc.
I think truthfully 99.9% of the time, the products that either of you review (I'm also a Stereophile subscriber in the UK) are good products! Everything is objective and for me it's definitely about being informative and entertaining. I honestly think if you guys came across something in the 0.01% that really wasn't up to scratch and especially for the money, because as Herb says if you're blowing $5K on speakers, do you honestly think that they will suck? Of course not but some 5 grand speakers may sound better than other 5 grand speakers. I love nothing more than reading something (and I think Herb has done this with the Goldring E3 and AT-VM95 - I think) about about a 50 or a 100 dollar phono cartridge that gave him hours of fun! No it's not as good as a Unami Red but Herb saw the positive and remained objective and wrote about how it made him feel. And we love it!
Real reason reviewers don't do too many negative reviews: Companies will stop sending them products and they will be out of a job, and they'll stop getting perks like longterm loans.
Not always - to use the example of one reviewer- one whom I have mixed feelings about - Fremer wrote a blah/somewhat negative review about an Ayre Universal Disc Player (well-reviewed elsewhere BTW) I have, and while I think he was fairly off the mark, I respect him for being willing to do so. He's also hedged his evals on certain SME tables, and again, while I love my 20/2 (which is well-matched with the rest of my system's components), I respect his willingness to share his outlook- which is not an uncommon one in its overall emphases. He also, interestingly, characterized Vandersteen Quatros as being too revealing and presenting too much information- though not necessarily being analytical sounding- unless he really did mean that, which he may have. This is not a characterization of Vandersteen speakers of any kind that I've generally heard elsewhere. OTOH, he gave a rave review to the Aesthetix Calypso amp (as have most other professional reviewers, including essentially Paul McGowan of PSAudio, who's raved about it), which I essentially own (my Janus Signature has the Calypso plus a scaled-down Rhea phono stage in it)- but none of the professional reviewers have addressed the variable nature of tube noise/rush in those pieces of gear, especially at the higher gain setting (which IMO gives more life to the sound). I'm sticking with my unit plus carefully selected tubes and some tolerance for residual tube rush, because of how much I love its sound otherwise, but it would have been nice if someone in 'the press' had addressed this issue in (unless they did and I forgot about it- it IS frequently mentioned in the online audiophile forums).
I appreciate Steve's reviews and bought things he has reviewed. On the negative side, many/most of the reviewers are what I call "ice cream reviewers." They only tell you how pleased they were reviewing product X. And since Steve and Herb say there are no terrible products out there, what is wrong about being an ice cream reviewer? In contrast, Auto magazines and UA-cam channels review and compare cars. Have you ever seen a side-by-side comparison in an audiophile magazine? Have you read a comparative review of a B&W, Focal, Dynaudio, or Wilson? Why? How can you review a product if you don't compare it with another one in the same price category? But no manufacturer will let a reviewer do a comparative review. So go figure. My take? I always listen before I buy. Does that mean you will have to pay and trust your dealer? I don't think there is another way, is there?
Just a couple of guys talking passionately about audio. Love it!
We're blessed to have Herb.
100% 👍🎶😊
That’s a serious understatement !!
Herb is a blessing from above! 👍
Thanks for this video, Steve.👨🏻
This channel can Rock!🥳
I love it when Herb is on! And I’ve been into 2 channel audio for many years, and have had all kinds of amps, speakers, turntables, DACs etc etc. And I’ve never had anything that sucked, something that others needed to be warned about. I’ve had stuff that I preferred over other stuff, but that’s probably more my personal taste in music as opposed to something being wrong the gear.
I agree. The biggest negative I see in the audio world is generally
dealing with over priced equipment. By this I mean an amp or
other piece of gear that sounds excellent but is costing twice as much
or more then another piece of equipment that sounds equally as well.
One example I had personally when I used to service audio
equipment had to do with cables.. I had a customer that
broke the connectors on the ends of a pair of 2 meter interconnect
cables. I repaired the cables and was astonished to learn
from the customer that they cost something like $1600.
In my test system I had an excellent sounding,
inexpensive pair of 2 meter DH Labs BL1 interconnects.
I did an AB test and to my amazement, the BL-1 cables
sounded better, especially in the upper midrange and
high frequencies. The kicker is that the BL-1 cables cost only
$200.00. Now, for me that is quite a difference in price and
there was no way I could justify my customer's $1,600 interconnects
when in two test systems I used to try
both pairs of cables, the $200 cables actually sounded better.
So I have found that just because a piece of audio gear is
expensive does not mean it is going to sound any better
or even as good as stuff costing less. So, I do tend
to look at reviews but also know that the true judge of
how good any audio gear is are your own ears..
@@archangele1 You know if you really did service audio equipment then uh ... you'd know why things have a higher price. Radio Shack started the low priced, high end stereo system and you know comparing their stuff, you know, there was a flagship launch, followed by a cheapened version vastly inferior in build quality but as you say, sounded just as good. But you know, there were fewer cycles on the power switch and it would fail sooner. The flagship had Omron brand and the mass-market version had no brand. So you know, low priced cables sounded better with a test system that you had than the ones at a higher price but the buyer never chose cheap, he chose dear and still managed to break them! I mean who breaks such things? We see this, incredible holes in the veneer of Tannoy Edinburgh, what are these owners doing? How do they gouge out a veneer a quarter inch in thickness? It's not just about judging by ear, SONY V-FET used to sound wonderful for just one year, that was the warranty and they dropped like flies thereafter as if designed to. 😁
@@keplermission I have seen garbage designs and build quality and yes, that is
why some stuff is very inexpensive. But I have also seen some very expensive equipment that was built no better then other audio equipment that was maybe 1/3rd the cost.
@@archangele1 Yeah ... late 1990s Luxman were a case in point, and many others like the Electrocompaniet, are made of low quality parts but still deliver a sound that competes on their high price and the Carver stuff was a classic example of cheap components with record profits. They had very nice front panels but nobody ever saw inside. The Carver from 1987 had a front panel looked titanium but when you got underneath it, it had changed to light blue. But Bob Carver patented the audio signature replication know-how, he claimed to be able to recreate any hi-end sound at a fraction of the price.
Love everything about episodes with Herb. You can tell he’s someone who you could have fascinating conversation with for hours.
You know herb hasn't got an obvious wife there tidying up all the mess and uh ... maybe Steve looks the better preserved for having his missus?
@@keplermission I don’t know about that, but his wardrobe is certainly “enhanced” as a result of Mrs. Audiophile.
I wish there was more Herb!
I don't always agree with where Steve and Herb are coming from but I have enormous respect for both. Love this channel.
Man…Herb is just on another level. Love hearing him share his thoughts and seeing his current system. 🎶😊 Thanks very much, guys!
So happy to see the two of you together again, these are the best but also most interesting videos!
If a negative review of an overhyped product, or one that is poor value for the money, stops people from buying, the review has done a good deed.
He'd rather have all his viewers waste money on garbage than have a small company selling garbage go out of business
Two good people talking audio , wish I could listen for hours.
So, what if every restaurant reviewer and every movie reviewer published positive reviews about every restaurant and every movie? That doesn't really help the consumer, does it? How does that help me decide where spend my money? Publishing all positive reviews does a disservice to the reader -- as well as to the equipment manufacturers that actually produce an outstanding product. In a magazine like Stereophile, where every review is positive (and every manufacturer gets to publish gushing thank-you notes about their positive reviews *in the same freakin' issue* -- hello, journalistic integrity?), how does that help me decide what to buy or what could sound good in my system? Frankly, I think negative reviews are much more fun to read than positive ones. People who write negative reviews aren't trying to prove anything, Herb. They are simply doing their job as a reviewer.
"So, what if every restaurant reviewer and every movie reviewer published positive reviews about every restaurant and every movie? " - one is much more likely to come across a bad meal than one is to come across an objectively bad piece of (main equipment) hifi gear. Name a high-end speaker that is bad (as in: does not work or sounds off-putting to a group of humans), can you?
Writing negative reviews is a real slog, and very much not fun for the reviewer if they take their job seriously. I've done it, makes you hate the job and listening to music.
I usually have a hard time watching long videos but with Herb and Steve together, there's seriously a lot to learn here. I watched every minute of it.
I was in the market for a fairly low powered amp to pair with my very efficient floor standers. Eventually my choice came down to one based on reviewers’ articles/videos, Steve’s included. And then I read Herb’s. His enthusiasm for the amp grew as the article progressed. He even challenged himself by pulling out some tunes that he thought might be difficult to reproduce. He was so impressed that he gave the amp a hearty endorsement. I bought one. He was right. It delivered the quality of sound I’d hoped it would with my speakers. What a match. Thank you, Herb!
So what was the amp you bought??
@@JingoLoBa57 Yorx
Herb is one of my favorite audio journalists. Thanks for having him on!
This discussion was informative, entertaining, and truthful. Something I consider when buying something new for my stereo is whether it was reviewed by any reviewer at all. No review of a product, especially a product that has been around for a while, is nearly as bad as a negative or bad review. If reviewers across the industry are not making the time to write about it, I am not inclined to take a chance on it.
I think that’s a good presentation from a reviewer point of view. Very valid. It might be good to mention why consumers look, for …bad… reviews. Maybe not bad but honest - bad or good. When I, as a consumer, look for a product and only find say 2 good reviews. Then I do not know if 20 reviewers looked at it and 18 of them did not like it and 2 liked. Or only two looked at the product and they all liked it. So, while 100% understand why reviewers will want to avoid something as touchy as bad reviews. But it’s sad for consumers and I hope with time this will change. And it’s not about being objective… There is no such thing. But if I find a reviewer that seem to align with my taste, I would love to know not just what that reviewer liked but also what the same reviewer did not like…. It’s not that piece of equipment is good or bad - it’s whether it matches reviewer preferences.
It’s always wonderful to hear and see Herb, he’s such a treasure. Honest enthusiastic reviews are always appreciated but they should always be tempered by revelations about possible shortcomings or caveats so potential buyers don’t make an expensive mistake.
Steve, Herb is the answer to your podcast. You two should do a podcast together.
The notion that Herb does not have standing to write a negative review is laughable. What right does the movie reviewer or restaurant reviewer or any other reviewer have to write a negative review? They have their expertise, their sensibility, their talent with language, and the validation of an audience who resonate with their arguments and evidence.The notion that Herb does not have the “ right” to question a manufacturer shows the degree to which has been captured by the industry. It is not the mark of a good reviewer to be so submerged in self-doubt.
Herb has nailed how I use reviewer’s output. Over time I tease out the reviewer’s priorities and general audio likes and dislikes, comparing, where possible, a review from another known writer or vlogger. Knowing what my own dislikes and likes are, I narrow the list of what I’ll listen to or try out at home. I’ve also learned the limitations of audiophile reviews the hard way. This was after buying a digital product recommended in Stereophile that spewed interference that impaired FM reception through my tuner. Fortunately, I worked at a company that had a small Electromagnetic Interference Lab. There I found that the digital product did not meet the most basic FCC emissions requirements for all consumer electronics. The fix was any easy clamp-on filter, something obvious in the lab, but for the average consumer? Sometimes the Consumer Reports approach saves some consumer grief!
Extremely enjoyable dialogue between 2 gentlemen. Thank you!
Thank you Steve and Herb for clarifying your methods and objectives in conducting product reviews. I thoroughly enjoy both your reviews. I now understand what Herb is focusing on when reviewing, and it has only increased my trust in his evaluations.
Herb & Steve are like John & Paul. Great individually and even better together.
I love you two !! Could you do a show one a month? You're so good at this. Thank you for your work here.
This was just as frustrating celestial conversation that went in circles. End users seek honest opinions & information on the products that interest us. These products tend to be highly priced, & there is a juggernaut of PR plowing them through the marketplace. If honest reviewers are just going to insist on wearing a halo & refuse to type a negative word, yet they are outnumbered 10 to 1 by reviewers who are corporate shills who will gladly write a positive review on any piece o' crap while eating their $500 lunch with the PR guy (or gal), we have a major black hole in the community. We need you guys to get off your high horses & learn to be more CRITICALLY analytical of the equipment that comes across your desk. Thank you very much guys.
"We need you guys to get off your high horses " - who are you to demand what other people do?
I love how Steve and Herb are just standing for this whole conversation.
You love that people stand? Huh 🤔
It's a hifi thing... All their seats is covered in tubes, records and cables. My visitors get the option of moving stuff to sit down. They usually dont bother and just stand around. Makes em leave real quick.
Ughhhh.. Rationalization: The action of attempting to explain or justify behavior or an attitude with logical reasons, even if these are not appropriate.. Two very likable people, jumping through very embarrassing hoops.
I'm so glad film reviewers, music reviewers, restaurant reviewers and car reviewers don't take the same line as you guys. We are just looking for honesty, if something is bad, poor, sub-standard in either build quality, sound quality, reliability, then I think you have a responsibility to tell us that, and not duck the issue with mumbo jumbo such as "who am I to say I know better?". It just reinforces the whole "you scratch my back....." thing that a lot of people believe takes place in the hi-fi industry.
I think people gravitate to reviewers they find helpful and trustworthy. That's it, and the good thing is there's a lot of reviewers to choose from.
@@SteveGuttenbergAudiophiliac Spot on Steve, they do; and part of that is knowing that a reviewer is not afraid to say when something doesn't meet expectations in some way or other. Honest feedback to the manufacturer is a gift, not something to be avoided. It's also a gift to your audience as they will avoid those products. Your explanation of why your reviews are always positive comes down to that you only review products that you like, That makes sense as it saves you time reviewing stuff you don't like and keeps you from biting the hand that feeds you, but it doesn't make for a well-rounded reviewer in my view. I do find your reviews helpful nonetheless, as at least I know you like the stuff you are reviewing and I watch for the music recommendations mostly, but I'm not sure why you put out a video on this topic, and invite comments, when it is clear from your responses to those who hold a differing view that you unhappy that they disagree and are essentially telling them to watch another channel - very odd!
"my brain is focused" - he said, looking wild-eyed and half-stoned. Still, Herb is a gem and needs to be on more often.
Some say, Herb's brain is more focused than a pair of Quad ESLs. Tbh I too focus better with Herb brain.
Regarding negative reviews, I always say what's the point of being a reviewer if you don't talk about the positive and negative? If it's always all positive, then you are nothing but a marketing influencer. It's perfectly acceptable to say you didn't like something and why. Not necessarily bashing the design or technicals of a product to seem superior than the designer, just offering your assessment.
Excellent. Herb! Dusty gear! I always feel bad my equipment gets so dusty. But today I feel if the mighty Herb Reichert fights the dust wars too, I don't have to feel so bad. The Artist's paintbrush to remove dust! (me too! same kind, an old Japanese sumi brush works well) Herb's painting - tiger/skeleton, man Herb, your Art... I always watch for glimpses when we get to see your place; it grabs me and shakes me, makes me go make my own Art. (I'm a painter/music lover/audio enthusiast too too and read both audio reviews and art reviews. Things connect in these passions) Steve, compliments laying back as you did here and letting Herb have the headspace to share his beautiful language in realtime. Really appreciate you both.
No one objects to negative reviews of movies, cars, music, restaurants etc. In the best case they both serve as warning and can inspire the purveyor to improve. Then again, perhaps the choice of title of 'reviewer' instead of critic is enlightening, as a 'reviewer' doesn't necessary understand their role to provide criticism.
I am with Herb and Steve here. If you’re reviewing something from Apple or some other megacompany, well it’s ok to be clear. But there are many small audio companies, all of which I would venture are passionate about what they are trying to do, and who in my opinion deserve the benefit of the doubt. A bad review would immediately put the nail in the coffin.
@@miguelbarrio so we let them sell underperforming stuff to people, in hoping they get better at it?
@@yantrussart6584 Maybe it was not underperforming just not their taste. There's plenty of pieces that are not underperforming but I just simply don't care for.
@@miguelbarrio if a piece of gear is not to their taste, they can simply say so and we'll understand. I'm not asking for hit pieces, just the truth, good or bad.
@@yantrussart6584 We all have to choose what to spend time with. I would rather know about good stuff!
Great video, Steve. We have all heard gear which we would not give house room. Harder for you guys to say so when you are reviewing.
Delighted to see and hear Herb, I have only read his articles in the past. His amp design "Flesh and Blood" published way back in the days of "Sound Practices" inspired me to build my own tube gear (7 amps and counting). 👍
That's great.
Excellent. Love when you two dinosaurs (complement) talk the talk. No one on the Tube does it better. Keep up the great work.
Great video. Really admire both of you..
I think people just want you to be honest with your opinion, positive or negative. Don't worry about "motive" issue.
That's what we do!
Steve and Herb both bolster one another's breadth of experience.
As fully aged audio buds, their sharing of perspectives is priceless context to each other's respective place in hifi.
That, and pro coax platforms can be stunning, doing so many things right.
What a great conversation thank you guys
The absence of reviews should be telling when considering a product.
People rely upon reviewers to give honest even negative reviews to offset the false positive or overly effusive reviews by reviewers who have an agenda, want to help friends in the industry, or other reasons apart from helping people. If six reviewers with an agenda give a glowing review of speaker A and Steve does not review it because he thinks it is a bad product, all we have are 6 positive reviews and no honest imsight
What an amazing talk with Herb! What a great video Steve! Thx.
Always glad to see Herb! But, when it comes to negative reviews, you're going to have to do them. "The Corvair is not the best but the seats are amazing. It does certain things well." ....helps no one.
As always, great seeing the two of you together! Would love to see and hear Steve's review of the Heretic speakers.
Bought the Lounge Audio Copla and LCR III unheard based on a prior video Steve and Herb. They are magic. Thanks! Made my day to see Herb with his Copla.
An honest review with no strings attached is being a professional.
When Steve quoted Mark Levinson it really hit home. If you reach the point when you're no longer listening to music, but to stereo equipment, you defeat the whole purpose of the hobby.
Yeah Man I’ve been through the audiophile journey analyzing everything, but now I’m enjoying the music 🎶
Another great interview. I read Herb's review of the Elekit 300B amp and found especialy "entertaining and informative." I've built several of their kits and have always been very pleased with the experience and end result. In fact I'm starting to look at selling a push-pull amp of theirs I've usedvfor several years so I can afford to buy the 300B kit while it is still around. Love your interviews, Steve, keep it up.
You know Single-Ended gear needs totally different speakers from push/pull? That name Gist is Welsh and I'm thinking maybe Walter is living in the United Kingdom. If you have push/pull there are different you know, Damping Factor suited speakers. Single-Ended usually has the stiff, accordion type cone suspension and if it's DF under 1, usually it's just one pleat. ELAC of England have very good Single-Ended speakers, very loud for the input. These are worth trying. Then Push/pull has other speakers, it's very complicated to get the best match and maybe you need to do less building and more reviewing.
It’s all about honesty. The truth can be hard to swallow but a constructive criticism can help the manufacturers to improve.
All the modern neutral speakers I have gotten in the last 20 years have inspired me to listen to music I never would have before. Mostly because I listen more and would otherwise end up in a repeat loop. When listening so much, one can get listeners block where you know you want to listen to something, but have no idea what. Another telling trait with overexposure is, choosing mixed random new music as a way of life.
Road & Track and Car & Driver seem free to do relatively negative car reviews, but then if they don't like the new Corolla they're not going to jeopardize Toyota's business. Stereophile and The Absolute Sound both did some negative reviews back in the digest days, when the magazines were supported by subscriptions.
Interesting you feel that way. So you're saying the subscribers no longer are the main source of revenue, and therefore get what they deserve! In any case, if you don't believe the reviews stop reading or watching them. Please.
Honest reviews and pointing out flaws is critical. I had once a Thorens TD203. Putting the record cleaning brush on it stops the platter within about 1-2 revolutions. Motor is pathetically weak, basically useless. That TT has a bunch of other problems, so a piece of junk. This is an objectively bad product mechanically. Nobody pointed that out. THAT is a problem, and a disservice to the community.
I don't really trust most reviews nowadays
OK …. I KNEW the Lounge Copla silver was special.
Definitely keeping mine, and my wife loves adjusting it during our listening sessions.
What a great visit! I bet you guys had a great time!
We did!
In year 2000 I bought a Music Fidelity A200 integrated amp because of Sam Tellig's review. I still use it to this day. Then in 2017 I bought Klipsch Heresy III based on Steve's review. Loved them. Replaced them with Forte IV. I've owned many other things, but my longest lasting components also had good reviews. Reviewers are certainly not infallible but they're a great data point or guide to put you onto things.
Herb & Steve "The Dynamic Duo in Audiophile Review Land". These guys are right as we spend our time watching them "Entertain and Inform". I agree with Herb that most products above a certain price point are pretty darn good and the bottom line is our ears either like the sound or we don't and our choice of gear is really a personal choice of the music we listen to. A very entertaining 32:13!
My entire current system makes me feel that way Herb. Highly resolving systems make all types of music much more appealing.
I really enjoy a balanced review, the phrase negative review is not good, but balanced is nice. If only positive, it might be entertaining, but not useable for beeing well informed. I really like the comment: "but Steve - what do you really think....?"
Thanks for this video. I have an audio review channel as well and currently have a new DAC in my possession that retails for over 6K and frankly it doesn't sound very good.
I've been having this moral dilemma about whether to trash this product or just pass on reviewing it altogether. Though I decided to not review it, this video confirmed I made the right choice.
Keep up the good work
With respect, you made the wrong choice for those people who may now spend 6k on a sub par product and could have been warned. If you are not prepared to do negative reviews you are only doing half a reviewers job. The term moral cowardice applies.
I appreciate and understand that you may be trying to grow a channel or make a living, but if you are only going to review things you like you should make that clear on your channel description.
@@jimfarrell4635 I've done three negative reviews in the past, one of which bothers me to this day even though I reviewed the headphone honestly.
In the case of this DAC, in conversations with three other people who have this DAC, my experiences do not match up with theirs, leading to the speculation that my review unit was somehow defective.
Rather than doing a negative review of DAC that may or may not be working as intended, I had simply declined to do the review, then this video dropped and Herb and Steve's comments really applied to how I've been feeling.
I get your point and I have heard your opinion echoed by others, but in this case I felt that not reviewing it was the best way to proceed.
@@headkarma Thanks for explaining. I know this is a contentious issue and appreciate the difficulties reviewers face. I just find it frustrating that there are so few out there willing to be completely honest with their viewers or readers.
What about credibility? Is that not the real issue?. Being extremely positive ALL THE TIME about
products comes across as a bit suspicious. Is it so different when you review films,books,plays etc. What is the credibility of critics who are never critical?
I enjoyed this one a lot. For those who want black and white reviews try Amit at Audio Science Review. He doesn’t pull any punches. If he doesn’t like a product he is very up front about it and explains why. He is very measurement driven and then offers his listening experience. He buys what he reviews and people lend him equipment to review.
His resume indicates his qualifications and approach to reviewing products.
And he doesn't rely on UA-cam reviews for his income so he can be objective. Unlike some people...
I love Herb's humility on not being the ultimate audio authority, even with his knowledge and experience.
As a music journalist for the past 30 years, I’ve found the primary objective I’ve looked for in all the criticism in my section is fair and honest. It’s our job to get in and adjudge whether the fans of a particular thing (music, in our case) are getting a fair shake - yes or no. Honesty is the key, and I’ve been successful in that regard. Negative reviews for the sake of being inflammatory is not only poor writing, but intellectually lazy and boring (I’m looking at you Pitchfork).
Ok screw this, I was just wondering if I should unsubscribe from Stereophile recently, and this video gave me confirmation that I should. Reviews are not entertainment, they are meant to be objective. If it's bad, say so. If something doesn't measure up to its price point, say so. I've stopped reading the issues because I already know every single review is going to be 100% positive anyway, so really what's the point?
New Gryphon speakers? Best sound I ever heard in my room!!
New Wilson speakers? Never heard anything sound this good in a long while!!
New Class D amp? Class D never sounded this good!!! As good as any Class A/B amp I ever owned!!!
Oh for fks sake, Chatgpt could write more original reviews.
There are lots of people who rely on these reviews to make big purchase decisions without having the chance to actually audition equipment. We're talking about someone's hard earned money. And then here you have a reviewer who thinks it's all entertainment.
Why not both informative and entertaining? While your point re. not being 100% positive in reviews is merited, there needs to be some entertainment value in these articles for the reviewer business model to survive- and new gear won't just be shipped to hobbyists for forum and youtube posts. The business model really requires the public to read a lot more reviews than just the gear they may realistically buy. If people only read the audiophile gear articles that practically pertain to their potential choices, then the fairly small circulation and revenue of the audio sites out there would go close to zero.
Plus- the audiophile domain is a hobby. Do you really want to strip the entertainment value out of hobby-related reading? Every other hobby has entertaining professional writing around it, as least all the ones of which I know; the reviewing establishment doesn't exist in the void you may wish it does.
@@maxhirsch7035 well the problem is, it is no longer entertaining when you already know what a review is going to read like (spoiler: all positive), before you even read it. It has seriously become so utterly predictable these days. Is this entertaining?
A well-rounded review explaining the negatives of a product, or even an outright negative review, would actually be much more entertaining imo. It actually further extends the discourse. An example would be Jay's review of Mofi Sourcepoint, that got many people agreeing/disagreeing and sharing different viewpoints.
@@meesmo4 A paying job ins't suppose to be all fun and games. and it's bad that they care more about a company that sells junk over customers that end up buying junk that was never reviewed.
@@rockmusicvideoreviewer896 exactly, they choose to care about not hurting small businesses that sell junk, instead of protecting their readers who actually subscribed to their magazine. How ridiculous is this?
Trust is earned when speaking in truth. If something sounds good by your values, and you say it’s positive, that’s good. But if it doesn’t sound good or poor value for cost, and you don’t highlight that, then your not to be trusted.
Trust: when a person behaves as expected.
I’ll trust you if your authentic.
I wish you could be more critical and open about the good and the bad. A negative review is important for the consumer on a tight budget.
If I'm not providing useful information, the solution is obvious, go somewhere else.
Pleasure to see you again Herb!
I just want HONEST reviews.
If you think something sounds crap tell me, if you think it's the best sounding thing ever tell me.
What you call "negative" or "bad" I call HONEST.
It's a subjective game this audio stuff, so tell me your HONEST subjective opinion, don't disguise your honest opinion in ambiguous language just because you don't want to write a "negative" or "bad" review, to me that's dishonest and I can't trust you.
I understand, you need to find reviewers that you can trust. Plenty of them out there.
Great conversation dudes. And Herb, pleased to hear you are out there and not exposing yourself. Probably for the best.
All the best Giles uk
Herb is such a class act, you can tell he's the kind of human being that enjoys life. A kind soul.
Thanks for this. Now having 3 sets of speakers and headphones, I found some of Herb’s comments and the quote from Levinson to reflect my experience regarding synergy, music and preferences; all part of the fun, does not have to break the bank and part of the enjoyment of both refining one’s listening / sonic palate.
In reviewing Herb's Music System you forgot to mention how much of his well selected gear is personally purchased . It seems likely that a prominent Reviewer wouldn't spend much his own scarce Dollars .
I appreciate the reveal about gear making certain recordings sound particularly good .
Thank you for this important Jouralism .
Tony in Florida
I have to admit I love these talks.🤓 Herb reminds me of Harrison Ford from the side!🤔😎
Always good to hear both of you. I follow reviewers who’s taste is different than mine, that for me equals a negative review and conversely, follow reviewers, who’s taste aligns with my own. Keep up the good work. Montreal, Can.
Ok. Few negative reviews are justified. But...mostly reviewers are reviewing the same: Buchart, Denafrips, Schiit, PS, Pass Labs, KEF, Klipsch...where are Tannoy, Cambridge, Leben, Naim reviews?
Steve, a few years back you reviewed the Outlaw 2160 with using Maggie’s. And upon your review I bought the unit and have been very pleased with it….
So Thank You….
I really enjoyed this conversation. Thanks guys.
Honest in context is more interesting then negative review's!
Think of it this way: if there are 100 products I could review but I can only review 12, on what merit should I choose those 12?
Great discussion. I really respect both of you in your reviews. I thank you.
I love this. The reality is.... most products these days are good. It's about what's best for you. I recently bought some wireless speakers that everyone said were objectively the best, ignoring the part where everyone said they were very bass forward. I got them and didn't like them becaue they were just too bassy for me and my music. I didn't use the reviews right -- I would have been much better off with the "second best" speakers which were less bass-forward. Point is, you need to read reviews and think about *yourself* not the star rating. On thee flip side, my Kanto YU-6s I saw things about the sound in the reviews where I was like, "well... they're saying it's an issue, but actually that sounds like I'll like them," and yep, I love them. A great review tells you about the product so you can decided for yourself.
I listened to my forever speaker at an audio show and lusted over it for many years. I finally was able to get them, a used set. Have been enjoying them for the last number of years. I ran across a negative review Stereophile did and was amazed at how off kilter it was. Everything they wrote I did not experience. If I had read it before my purchase I still would not have shelved my interest in these speakers as I heard them in person and it was love at first listen. By the way Steve I have used many of your product recommendations to guide purchases with no regrets, thanks.
I just went back over the weekend and watched a bunch of Herb stuff on UA-cam as it is all so great! I hope you guys do some more videos together soon. I am super intrigued by that Elekit amp, think that is going to be my next big purchase/ project.
In my own case, I get really excited about great products in audio. I am a much better reviewer when I am enthusiastic. So I totally get Herb’s viewpoint.
I remember when UK magazines if it was a bad review they would ask the company if they still wanted it to go in the mag
Instead of thinking about positive vs negative reviews, it’s more enlightening to think in terms of comparative reviews.
Back in the day, we used to have a couple of mainstream audio magazines. All of their reviews were basically the same. They would do their measurements, talk vaguely about the sound and, at the end, would conclude by saying something like: “You wouldn’t be embarrassed to have this in your system.” Or “This would be a fine product to fill out any setup.” The joke in the audiophile community was that their reviews were like: “Of all the amps I’ve heard, this is definitely one of them.” The reasoning for their non-committal reviews was that most equipment was of uniformly high quality. If that was true, then what is the point of reviews? Just find the product that has the features you want and you’re done.
As Steve and Herb said, 99% of the equipment today is of good quality. And Steve chooses components that he is motivated to review, eliminating many of the potentially lower quality products. So what is the point of a review then? Well, you can have 2 equally good products, such as the Magnapan or Klipsch. You can’t say either one is better, although they are certainly different. The job of the reviewer is to try to explain the relevant differences. You will need to know practical stuff such as needing a beefy amp to drive the Maggies, but being able to plug in a low power amp for the Klipsch. If you want to crank up loud rock n’ roll or if solid bass is important to you, then the Klipsch would likely be the best choice. You don’t have to agree with the reviewer. You just have to understand their preferences. Then you can decide what you would like or not based on the review.
Indeed , some amplifiers make me listen to music I didn't want to listen for many years before.......suddenly what i found being boring capted my attention because the amp/system made me understand the music.........and invited me to listen to that kind of music .
Not everyone can audition gear. People place trust in reviewers, especially from publications with a good reputation.
If not coming clean to listeners/viewers about products the reviewer thinks are overpriced or poor, leads to people buying them. This seems morally suspect.
I asked this question years ago on a forum, and steve answered me that he reviwed so much good stuff, he didnt have time to write about the bad stuff
Love that quote from Levinson. Great episode by the way.
I always like it when you two get together.
Herb nailed the wharfedale diamond 225's! Great budget speakers!
Great video by two of the most knowledgeable guys in audio, the only thing I would add is that you have to careful as a component that doesn't work in your system may well work in someone else's. Most high end stuff is pretty good so you have to be unlucky to pick a duffer!🙂
Fun fact: MUSIC reviews are much more often negative. "This record wasn't all that bad, if they would apologize for their last 10 records" (sic!) and stuff like that. So while the audiophiles are used to read bad reviews, the stuff they put the most money in, THE GEAR, gets reviewed so euphemistic, it's sometimes hard to tell whether its stellar performance deserves an oscar, or if it's the reviewer who gets the award this time.
Interestingly, though, in the popular press, music reviewers tend to be substantially kinder to releases than film critics are. I think part of this is the selection bias for who reviews which genres; the fact that the scale of most music releases, particularly indie ones, are much more financially modest in terms of overhead, compared with big films, and thus less compromised by the financial mis/considerations of execs in the companies releasing them; the way that music critics may over-identify with certain aspects of the genre as part of their image - personally identifying with bands they review much more often than generalist film critics may identify with directors/actors/production people involved; etc.
I didn't know I needed some herb tonight. I'm so relaxed right nowwwwwwww
I think truthfully 99.9% of the time, the products that either of you review (I'm also a Stereophile subscriber in the UK) are good products! Everything is objective and for me it's definitely about being informative and entertaining. I honestly think if you guys came across something in the 0.01% that really wasn't up to scratch and especially for the money, because as Herb says if you're blowing $5K on speakers, do you honestly think that they will suck? Of course not but some 5 grand speakers may sound better than other 5 grand speakers. I love nothing more than reading something (and I think Herb has done this with the Goldring E3 and AT-VM95 - I think) about about a 50 or a 100 dollar phono cartridge that gave him hours of fun! No it's not as good as a Unami Red but Herb saw the positive and remained objective and wrote about how it made him feel. And we love it!
Two of my favourite audiophiles 👍
Real reason reviewers don't do too many negative reviews: Companies will stop sending them products and they will be out of a job, and they'll stop getting perks like longterm loans.
Not always - to use the example of one reviewer- one whom I have mixed feelings about - Fremer wrote a blah/somewhat negative review about an Ayre Universal Disc Player (well-reviewed elsewhere BTW) I have, and while I think he was fairly off the mark, I respect him for being willing to do so.
He's also hedged his evals on certain SME tables, and again, while I love my 20/2 (which is well-matched with the rest of my system's components), I respect his willingness to share his outlook- which is not an uncommon one in its overall emphases.
He also, interestingly, characterized Vandersteen Quatros as being too revealing and presenting too much information- though not necessarily being analytical sounding- unless he really did mean that, which he may have. This is not a characterization of Vandersteen speakers of any kind that I've generally heard elsewhere.
OTOH, he gave a rave review to the Aesthetix Calypso amp (as have most other professional reviewers, including essentially Paul McGowan of PSAudio, who's raved about it), which I essentially own (my Janus Signature has the Calypso plus a scaled-down Rhea phono stage in it)- but none of the professional reviewers have addressed the variable nature of tube noise/rush in those pieces of gear, especially at the higher gain setting (which IMO gives more life to the sound).
I'm sticking with my unit plus carefully selected tubes and some tolerance for residual tube rush, because of how much I love its sound otherwise, but it would have been nice if someone in 'the press' had addressed this issue in (unless they did and I forgot about it- it IS frequently mentioned in the online audiophile forums).
Cool old guys, always a pleasure to watch.
These guys aren't reviewers, they are entertainers. Two old guys stuck in the seventys analogue era.
Thanks for sharing and watching my video. And yes this is about entertainment. Definitely not a science report.
I appreciate Steve's reviews and bought things he has reviewed. On the negative side, many/most of the reviewers are what I call "ice cream reviewers." They only tell you how pleased they were reviewing product X. And since Steve and Herb say there are no terrible products out there, what is wrong about being an ice cream reviewer? In contrast, Auto magazines and UA-cam channels review and compare cars. Have you ever seen a side-by-side comparison in an audiophile magazine? Have you read a comparative review of a B&W, Focal, Dynaudio, or Wilson? Why? How can you review a product if you don't compare it with another one in the same price category? But no manufacturer will let a reviewer do a comparative review. So go figure. My take? I always listen before I buy. Does that mean you will have to pay and trust your dealer? I don't think there is another way, is there?
id literally had this thought today, "wish Steve had another video with Herb" and voila. Cheers to you both. *thumbsup*