When I was younger, I tended to play extremely sharp. One of the most helpful exercises I ever did was the "lip down, then lip up until you find the sweet spot" exercise. That improved my overall intonation as well.
The goal posts of brass tuning has changed. It happened when the electronic tuner appeared in the middle to late 1980's. Whereas before section tuning and overall tuning was done by the leads and the conductors and by ear, we started to rely on these little boxes and people started talking in cents of tuning rather than an overall sound of the band. Off centre tuning is not always a bad thing. You only have to listen to 1970's brass band recordings to realise that the diversity of tuning actually creates a chorus effect in each section. It is a technique used by recording studios on voices to "Thicken" the sound of a weedy singer. So it does have it's place. If you then listen to a modern brass band you will notice that it has a distinct different tonality. More in tune but also thinner sound than the equivalent pre-electronic tuning days.
Chase Sanborn, a Toronto trumpet player, has a book with drone recordings called Tuning Tactics. It's a good text for using to work on intonation Thank you for your thoughts and insight into trumpet playing! It's the next best thing to a lesson with a good teacher.
More Great content! Every instrument is out of tune and adjustments have to be made on the fly…the key is training your ear and response to be ‘quick’ I need to incorporate into daily work! Along with QTones!
This may sound crazy, but how I base my intonation on trumpet is how I hear it on clarinet. That’s my primary instrument. I didn’t pick up the trumpet until I was a senior in high school, so all I had to base my sound on was my clarinet sound. To this day, 8-ish years later, that’s how I practice my intonation. It may not be the best way, but it works for me. 😊
23 is in tune. 3rd slide is designed for 23 to be in tune RELATIVE to the open instrument. But not all open tones are in tune with equal temperament tuning. You SHOULD be able to play A-flat in tune without slides if open C is in tune.
Yeah, I struggled a little with this video in deciding how much nuance I wanted to get into. I decided making it more of a basic discussion was better. For most of the notes that aren’t too bad, you can get them in tune with little issue. I more or less tried to show where the note sits if you don’t manipulate it too much. But, maybe I could have done a better job explaining.
23 CAN be built to play a major third low relative to one specific note on the open instrument…but that’s not a given, and the choice of length varies from one design to another. In addition, the effective length often varies from actual length due to valve alignment, bracing, and various damping effects. Finally, the effect of adding a length of “cylindrical” tubing in the middle of the horn varies as you go through different modes of vibration. I love the message of proactively working to play the instrument in tune. No matter how much math you do, how much mindful practice you do, you still need to be “tuned in” to the sound coming out of the horn and the sound around you.
@merrillryanj but the factors such as valve alignment, etc, would affect tuning on all other combinations as well. My point is that the 3rd valve tubing is usually nominally designed, such that 23 is a major 3rd lower in pitch below the open harmonic. There is no practical reason that it should not UNLESS the instrument is designed for 3 alone to be in tune with the slide in which indeed would make 23 sharp to the degree that adding some slide length would be practical.
Do you sometimes have to think about being in tune inside the "chord" played by other instruments in the orchestra? Tuners generally uses equal temperament for exemple, but if you have to play the third of a chord, it naturally sounds better if little flatter than in equal temperament. Or does it come naturally by ear?
100%. I think the beats/no beats approach still works. If you’re playing the third, and you’re sharp, it won’t gel as well as when you’re in tune. I’m not sure it comes “naturally”, but the more you practice it, the faster you get overall
Certainly having chances to practice can help. Improving your ear in general, making it more sensitive to pitch. I have an app called InTune that helps with this. Then, just having the chance to practice hearing where notes slots when they are in tune. Playing with a drone can help with this.
Perfect pitch would certainly help, but the goal of the exercise is to help teach your ear what to listen for. To develop better awareness of great intonation
hey ryan great video ! I'm developing better intonation with my trumpet and found it difficult to play in tune and centered but I'm still at it and won't stop until I've combined the two. You're centering the tone video and this video are critical pieces to the puzzle I'm trying to complete so thank you. Quick question though, while centering the sound and the playing in tune is possible for me on a long tones, what do you recommend for one to do for faster pieces ? Thanks
Practice the faster pieces a little slower so you can hear the notes and whether or not they are in tune. Then gradually speed it up, aiming for the intonation you found was best.
Lol, great presentation, took me a couple times to understand this aspect.. i sm beginning to hear the puches, in most of my partials, now integrating adjustments into my scales for this to become, 2nd nature. His mentor stated in auditions if someone is not using the slides for proper intonation, he will not select them
Aside from all the other reasons I can tell you as a longtime jazz band director that most trumpets play out of tune because they're playing too loud and they can't hear what they're tuning to.
Is the trumpet really out of tune, or is 12 tone equal temperament out of tune? I know most western instruments use 12tet, but brass instruments use the overtone series as it exists naturally. As do choral singers, barber shop quarters, and some fretless stringed instruments and instruments from places other than Europe. I enjoyed the video and I do apologize if I came across as argumentative, that was not my intention. I'm autistic and sometimes things don't come across the way I intend.
I think the trumpet being out of tune, and the adjustments you need to make to play in tune with others are different things. It’s important to understand both!
The section should be tuning to the principle. If you’re a traffic cop to the orchestra in complex rhythmical passages you must be, in your own affable Ryan way, an absolute tyrant to your section regarding intonation. (I can imagine Bud didn’t cut Charlie much slack).
being in tune is overrated ngl. of course its within reason, but being out of tune at times can just be so much better. multiple players each slightly out of tune creates a beautiful unison effect. its the same thing that happens with string sections in an orchestra. its so underrated and should really be used more imo.
I only have my right arm. I cannot use the slide because I don't have a left arm. What do you recommend. I play the Trumpet and I used my lips in order to play low notes.
I imagine you're doing the best you can! I don't really have much advice. I'm not aware of any modifications one could make to a trumpet to accommodate your needs.
When I was younger, I tended to play extremely sharp. One of the most helpful exercises I ever did was the "lip down, then lip up until you find the sweet spot" exercise. That improved my overall intonation as well.
For sure! It’s nice to use that to listen to all the different ways you can affect the sound.
aka lip bending
The goal posts of brass tuning has changed. It happened when the electronic tuner appeared in the middle to late 1980's. Whereas before section tuning and overall tuning was done by the leads and the conductors and by ear, we started to rely on these little boxes and people started talking in cents of tuning rather than an overall sound of the band. Off centre tuning is not always a bad thing. You only have to listen to 1970's brass band recordings to realise that the diversity of tuning actually creates a chorus effect in each section. It is a technique used by recording studios on voices to "Thicken" the sound of a weedy singer. So it does have it's place. If you then listen to a modern brass band you will notice that it has a distinct different tonality. More in tune but also thinner sound than the equivalent pre-electronic tuning days.
Chase Sanborn, a Toronto trumpet player, has a book with drone recordings called Tuning Tactics. It's a good text for using to work on intonation
Thank you for your thoughts and insight into trumpet playing! It's the next best thing to a lesson with a good teacher.
I’m so glad you find my videos helpful!
More Great content! Every instrument is out of tune and adjustments have to be made on the fly…the key is training your ear and response to be ‘quick’
I need to incorporate into daily work! Along with QTones!
This may sound crazy, but how I base my intonation on trumpet is how I hear it on clarinet. That’s my primary instrument. I didn’t pick up the trumpet until I was a senior in high school, so all I had to base my sound on was my clarinet sound. To this day, 8-ish years later, that’s how I practice my intonation. It may not be the best way, but it works for me. 😊
I think anything can be your mental representation! Whatever works is good.
I love this video. Where is the link to the pitch reference pdf?
I forgot, but it’s there now!
@@RyanBeachtrumpet 🙏
That approach to using a tuner is something new to me. Excellent idea!
Let me know how it goes!
23 is in tune. 3rd slide is designed for 23 to be in tune RELATIVE to the open instrument. But not all open tones are in tune with equal temperament tuning. You SHOULD be able to play A-flat in tune without slides if open C is in tune.
Yeah, I struggled a little with this video in deciding how much nuance I wanted to get into. I decided making it more of a basic discussion was better. For most of the notes that aren’t too bad, you can get them in tune with little issue. I more or less tried to show where the note sits if you don’t manipulate it too much. But, maybe I could have done a better job explaining.
@@RyanBeachtrumpet Understood . I thought that it was a good video. Just pointing out that 23 need not be triggered as many believe that.
depends on the instrument, my bach 72 Ab is actually flat, which is super annoying
23 CAN be built to play a major third low relative to one specific note on the open instrument…but that’s not a given, and the choice of length varies from one design to another. In addition, the effective length often varies from actual length due to valve alignment, bracing, and various damping effects. Finally, the effect of adding a length of “cylindrical” tubing in the middle of the horn varies as you go through different modes of vibration.
I love the message of proactively working to play the instrument in tune. No matter how much math you do, how much mindful practice you do, you still need to be “tuned in” to the sound coming out of the horn and the sound around you.
@merrillryanj but the factors such as valve alignment, etc, would affect tuning on all other combinations as well. My point is that the 3rd valve tubing is usually nominally designed, such that 23 is a major 3rd lower in pitch below the open harmonic. There is no practical reason that it should not UNLESS the instrument is designed for 3 alone to be in tune with the slide in which indeed would make 23 sharp to the degree that adding some slide length would be practical.
Thank you. I have gone backing to playing my horn after many years away and amazed at how I have struggled with intonation.
I’m glad you feel this video was helpful! Thanks for watching.
When should I practice these tonal exercises, shortly after warmup or at the end of the practice time?
I usually do them earlier in my session, but as long as it’s pretty low impact you could do it anytime
Do you sometimes have to think about being in tune inside the "chord" played by other instruments in the orchestra? Tuners generally uses equal temperament for exemple, but if you have to play the third of a chord, it naturally sounds better if little flatter than in equal temperament. Or does it come naturally by ear?
100%. I think the beats/no beats approach still works. If you’re playing the third, and you’re sharp, it won’t gel as well as when you’re in tune.
I’m not sure it comes “naturally”, but the more you practice it, the faster you get overall
Do you have any tips for playing in tune with a chord? I find that I can't really tell where to aim when I'm the only voice playing my particular note
Certainly having chances to practice can help. Improving your ear in general, making it more sensitive to pitch. I have an app called InTune that helps with this. Then, just having the chance to practice hearing where notes slots when they are in tune. Playing with a drone can help with this.
7:50 dont you need perfect pitch top do that?
Perfect pitch would certainly help, but the goal of the exercise is to help teach your ear what to listen for. To develop better awareness of great intonation
hey ryan great video ! I'm developing better intonation with my trumpet and found it difficult to play in tune and centered but I'm still at it and won't stop until I've combined the two. You're centering the tone video and this video are critical pieces to the puzzle I'm trying to complete so thank you.
Quick question though, while centering the sound and the playing in tune is possible for me on a long tones, what do you recommend for one to do for faster pieces ? Thanks
Practice the faster pieces a little slower so you can hear the notes and whether or not they are in tune. Then gradually speed it up, aiming for the intonation you found was best.
@@RyanBeachtrumpet Thanks! Cheers
What tuning app was that? Thanks.
Tonal Energy!
Lol, great presentation, took me a couple times to understand this aspect.. i sm beginning to hear the puches, in most of my partials, now integrating adjustments into my scales for this to become, 2nd nature. His mentor stated in auditions if someone is not using the slides for proper intonation, he will not select them
Thanks Greg! Slow and steady.
What are some good audition pieces. And how should one audition.
Depends on what you are auditioning for. Can you give me an example?
Youth ensembles
thank you for the video, may i know what is the name of the tuner app?
TonalEnergy Tuner & Metronome.
Tonal energy
This makes feel like a 3rd valve>12 valve movement is inbound? Thoughts?
Maybe? It’s certainly an option that more or less solves the sharpness of 1-2 combinations. But I dunno if there will be a movement about it haha.
I definitely use 3 instead of 12 in certain situations and have had success with it.
What tuner do you use?
Tonal energy. It’s in the App Store.
what the app name?
Tonal energy
I need this in flute 😦
Have you come across the intunator app?
I downloaded mine on the app store
Aside from all the other reasons I can tell you as a longtime jazz band director that most trumpets play out of tune because they're playing too loud and they can't hear what they're tuning to.
That's an affliction that you'll see all the way up the ladder even to professional top call players
Is the trumpet really out of tune, or is 12 tone equal temperament out of tune?
I know most western instruments use 12tet, but brass instruments use the overtone series as it exists naturally. As do choral singers, barber shop quarters, and some fretless stringed instruments and instruments from places other than Europe.
I enjoyed the video and I do apologize if I came across as argumentative, that was not my intention. I'm autistic and sometimes things don't come across the way I intend.
I think the trumpet being out of tune, and the adjustments you need to make to play in tune with others are different things. It’s important to understand both!
Have anybody learned 4 octave scale on trumpet
Maybe. Depends on which note you started on i guess. Pedal C to double C is 4 octaves. I’m sure someone can do that.
It is driving me nuts.
The out of tune sound with the drone?
clearly the valved trombone is the logical solution
Can’t argue with that
Did not know they were ever in tune.
I’m not sure I understand what you mean?
It's hard to play the trumpet. Period.
The section should be tuning to the principle. If you’re a traffic cop to the orchestra in complex rhythmical passages you must be, in your own affable Ryan way, an absolute tyrant to your section regarding intonation.
(I can imagine Bud didn’t cut Charlie much slack).
being in tune is overrated ngl. of course its within reason, but being out of tune at times can just be so much better. multiple players each slightly out of tune creates a beautiful unison effect. its the same thing that happens with string sections in an orchestra. its so underrated and should really be used more imo.
I only have my right arm. I cannot use the slide because I don't have a left arm. What do you recommend. I play the Trumpet and I used my lips in order to play low notes.
I imagine you're doing the best you can! I don't really have much advice. I'm not aware of any modifications one could make to a trumpet to accommodate your needs.