I'm sold. Having played with shims in bilsteins on my car and now I completely under what these are and how they work. Going to be one of my first modifications for my new sv650A.
Thanks Paul, I have told valving in my sports bike and looking for something for the sportster. Really appreciate you for explaining how this works. Great products!
When I replaced the springs in my wife's bikes and was offered this option. I turned it down. Now that I know more about what they do... I will say yes
I wonder if it would make sense to put a series of smaller additional holes in the damper rod higher up on the rod (rather than two large holes right next to original ones), to progressively increase compression damping (and decrease rebound damping) as the fork gets more and more compressed. Seems like it could provide additional protection against bottoming out while not affecting handling in the middle of the suspension travel.
That was very interesting and educational. I'd be very interested in how the emulators affect the rebound damping curve, if at all, and how standard damping rod forks handle that aspect of damping.
As an addition to what jameshisself writes... you basically start out by finding the right spring rate and preload. Then you tune in the rebound damping by means of the oil viscosity. When these parameters are spot on, you can adjust the spring tension and preload on the Emulators to dial in the preferred compression damping characteristics as well... and, voila, the front suspension should be set!
Oh, by the way... standard damping rods partially block the escape route, so that the main holes in the rods are not an issue on rebound. The rebound damping is then controlled by smaller orifices etc, like the small orifice in the Emulators does with low speed compression.
You guys should do an install video on Harley fxr’s and there different fork lengths would be helpful to younger generations working on there own bikes....
Paul 86rm 250 article I remembered him modifying thr Suzuki withe highly resistant linkakage he had polished and harden .but I was wondering if thehe knows the kx250 2005 Aoss kyb mid stroke shim positions since mine fell apart with it coming off
What about rebound damping? Does drilling the damping rod make rebound quicker? I'm installing heavier fork springs so I also need more rebound damping.
My ? To setup the preload on the gold valve spring, we loosen the bolt so the spring is JUST touching the washers, then add the required turns from there? This seems to be the correct way, just making sure.
You u guys need to make a specific fxr model instruction with actual fluid level and spacer hieght so a tech doesn't have to go thru your intire website and still not find any clear answers
(I just ordered for a Fatboy have not seen them yet or seen any install instructions . ) I see It is adjustable and that cool butt if you get it wrong you are back taking the front apart again. Where do you start with the adjustment to get a good shot at getting it right the first time.
Are you able to use this in tandem with other after market accessories ? For instance could I grab this kit from you, while running Patriot suspension springs? Could I then use the speed merchant preload adjusters on top of it all ? If that's the case a system like this arguably would be better than a cartridge kit, due to the modularity and fine tuneability (if the pairs parts were selected wisely at least )? Or ultimately are cartridges the true end game when it comes to Harley (Dyna) front end suspension ?
@Hedonist - I have never had a bike with cartridge forks, but do use Gold Valves along with single rate heavier springs (made for me out of the next larger size spring wire to give a 50% higher spring rate) and 30wt fork oil. I do not have as much preload (spacer) on the springs so when fitted with Speed Merchant adjusters I can get almost perfect forks for my requirement. It does take a few attempts to get the Gold Valve adjusters to the 'correct' settings and I find the pre-load adjusters allow for easy adjustment of said preload for general riding or for heavily laden (pillion or touring/camping). Standard springs (and rear shocks) on Harleys are always too soft for my liking, and the large amount of preload with poor damping made the forks (and shocks) more like Pogo sticks than anything else ! My bikes are heavily modded engine-wise (100+ BHP) and maybe that is why......
Just bought this emulators and the refill port (check valve) is partially open all the the time when they just lay on the table horizontally. Seems like the check valve spring is not strong enough to hold the valve shut when it is not submerged in oil, I hope this is normal and not a defect?
Turns out it is open only about 0.5mm on one side of the check valve. The check valve spring is about 0.5mm longer on the side where the inactive coils overlap.
I have a 99 vmax with progressive spring. I know racetech sells flat rate springs but my progressive springs are practically new. Researching i find mixed results on in the cartridge emulators are compatible with a progressive rate springs. Are they compatible?
Progressive springs are good for comfort when riding in a straight line on a smooth road; they are bad for handling though, especially when braking or on rougher roads. They are just as bad for stock damper rods as they are for emulators, and putting the emulators in would still make your handling better, it just won't be as good as it would be with straight rate springs.
Yes, they do. If you don't, they'll still give too much square damping effect. The idea about drilling them is to virtually disable them, so that the Emulators takes over the damping completely.
@@natanmortenfeld5813 trust me they WILL work. Put them in a 03 dyna. Couldn't believe the difference. (Slight exageration ahead) You can take speed bumps, almost at posted speed and feel a..... soft plushness to the front end. Not soft that it'll bottom out n be harsh, but smooth. Dont forget the ass end. NO FUCKING $300 GARBAGE PROGRESSIVE SHORT SHOCKS! If ya ain't gonna spend at least 900 on the rear give up. Ride a barstool instead.
Without drilling the emulators will work but only at lower suspension travel velocities (i.e. over relatively smooth pavement). At higher velocities, the damping would still mostly happen at the original damper rod holes (so it will likely be too harsh).
Yes, you have to take out off the fork cap, washers, spacer, spring and Gold Valve Cartridge Emulator. Then use a 3/8" (9.5mm don't exist) wrench and a 5/32" (4mm) hex key to adjust the preload on the spring. You can also change the Gold Valve Cartridge Emulator Spring & Valve Plate, then there is oil Viscosity, Oil level. Then of course fork springs and there preload. For more information see www.racetech.com/page/title/Emulator%20Tuning%20Guide
Snurre86 so the next version needs to have the nut held in place & a new fork cap with a long adjusting screw running all the way from the cap to the emulator. Then it’s adjustable on the trail.
Look up "DAMPING ROD FORKS and EMULATORS HOW THEY WORK" on Racetech's website. Plugging that hole will make rebound damping extremely high since the oil would have basically no way of escaping chamber B.
Changing the viscosity of oil primarily affects the rebound. Try experimenting in various small increments. Also check for free sag, static sag, and rider sag.
Mr Thede, taking on a complicated existing problem and engineering a simple solution is genius. Thank you, Sir.
I put these on my 1983 Suzuki RM250 and it works like magic. The video shows how and a great tutorial.
Hi did you drill additional halls in your damping rod? is it necessary?
Hmm, no talk about rebound or the effects of rebound vs improvement to compression with this device
Dude,,,,, genius. To make something "simple" to address something so complicated..... and guaranteed. Thank You for sharing.
Thanks Paul! Disappointed that you don't make one small enough for a set of XR100 forks!
Making the solution a simple as you have is where the beauty and artistry lies.
I'm sold. Having played with shims in bilsteins on my car and now I completely under what these are and how they work. Going to be one of my first modifications for my new sv650A.
Thanks Paul, I have told valving in my sports bike and looking for something for the sportster. Really appreciate you for explaining how this works. Great products!
Hey, what did you end up going with for your sportster?
@@HD2O13XL12OOC Harley Sportster Nightster 2008. I installed stiffer springs front and rear, and I think I raised the fork oil height.
When I replaced the springs in my wife's bikes and was offered this option. I turned it down. Now that I know more about what they do... I will say yes
I wonder if it would make sense to put a series of smaller additional holes in the damper rod higher up on the rod (rather than two large holes right next to original ones), to progressively increase compression damping (and decrease rebound damping) as the fork gets more and more compressed. Seems like it could provide additional protection against bottoming out while not affecting handling in the middle of the suspension travel.
keeping it simple it typically the most difficult challenge in most solutions.
Thank you a lot for this video, only now I completely understand why my Honda OEM fork acts like it does....
That was very interesting and educational. I'd be very interested in how the emulators affect the rebound damping curve, if at all, and how standard damping rod forks handle that aspect of damping.
As an addition to what jameshisself writes... you basically start out by finding the right spring rate and preload. Then you tune in the rebound damping by means of the oil viscosity. When these parameters are spot on, you can adjust the spring tension and preload on the Emulators to dial in the preferred compression damping characteristics as well... and, voila, the front suspension should be set!
Oh, by the way... standard damping rods partially block the escape route, so that the main holes in the rods are not an issue on rebound. The rebound damping is then controlled by smaller orifices etc, like the small orifice in the Emulators does with low speed compression.
You forgot to mention the air spring (oil level) and the Emulator Valve Plate Bleed Holes (low speed compression). Are this adjusted lastly?
They were awesome on my 97 Low Rider, so I just ordered a set for my 99 Road King.
You guys should do an install video on Harley fxr’s and there different fork lengths would be helpful to younger generations working on there own bikes....
im going to be calling you guys next week to talk about setting up my 2011 KLR650 for some serious offroad action.!!!!
Paul 86rm 250 article I remembered him modifying thr Suzuki withe highly resistant linkakage he had polished and harden .but I was wondering if thehe knows the kx250 2005 Aoss kyb mid stroke shim positions since mine fell apart with it coming off
Was that ATF fluid poured into the fork 😅
Damn that looks cool, I'm almost sold on getting a set.
How does the rebound work? Does the oil just pass through the bypass hole?
Can you tell me the setting on these emulators please. Eg: tightening the spring = ? Loosening the Spring = ? Cheers
What about rebound damping? Does drilling the damping rod make rebound quicker? I'm installing heavier fork springs so I also need more rebound damping.
According to Racetech's website, rebound damping is not affected much by installing the emulators, so you'd need to play with the oil weight
Who are you who are so wise in the ways of the science?
My ? To setup the preload on the gold valve spring, we loosen the bolt so the spring is JUST touching the washers, then add the required turns from there? This seems to be the correct way, just making sure.
Great idea, I'd never heard of these until I saw this video, well done, excellent product.
You u guys need to make a specific fxr model instruction with actual fluid level and spacer hieght so a tech doesn't have to go thru your intire website and still not find any clear answers
i literally just shook this guy's hand walking down the street just now. respek
well, if you say so... sounds a helluva lot easier than swapping out r1 forks for the fz6. do we use the same oem recd weight fork oil?
(I just ordered for a Fatboy have not seen them yet or seen any install instructions . ) I see It is adjustable and that cool butt if you get it wrong you are back taking the front apart again. Where do you start with the adjustment to get a good shot at getting it right the first time.
Hi, I'm considering to get race tech fork spring upgrade for my 2015 Yamaha fz09. Do you have any installation video? Thank you !
Are you able to use this in tandem with other after market accessories ? For instance could I grab this kit from you, while running Patriot suspension springs? Could I then use the speed merchant preload adjusters on top of it all ? If that's the case a system like this arguably would be better than a cartridge kit, due to the modularity and fine tuneability (if the pairs parts were selected wisely at least )? Or ultimately are cartridges the true end game when it comes to Harley (Dyna) front end suspension ?
@Hedonist - I have never had a bike with cartridge forks, but do use Gold Valves along with single rate heavier springs (made for me out of the next larger size spring wire to give a 50% higher spring rate) and 30wt fork oil. I do not have as much preload (spacer) on the springs so when fitted with Speed Merchant adjusters I can get almost perfect forks for my requirement. It does take a few attempts to get the Gold Valve adjusters to the 'correct' settings and I find the pre-load adjusters allow for easy adjustment of said preload for general riding or for heavily laden (pillion or touring/camping). Standard springs (and rear shocks) on Harleys are always too soft for my liking, and the large amount of preload with poor damping made the forks (and shocks) more like Pogo sticks than anything else ! My bikes are heavily modded engine-wise (100+ BHP) and maybe that is why......
trying to find install information for a 2010 V-Strom. Anyone have links?
Just bought this emulators and the refill port (check valve) is partially open all the the time when they just lay on the table horizontally. Seems like the check valve spring is not strong enough to hold the valve shut when it is not submerged in oil, I hope this is normal and not a defect?
Turns out it is open only about 0.5mm on one side of the check valve. The check valve spring is about 0.5mm longer on the side where the inactive coils overlap.
so is that a defect ? or that's they the way it should be ?
@@natanmortenfeld5813 I can't know for sure, compare yours and let me know ... ?
I have a 99 vmax with progressive spring. I know racetech sells flat rate springs but my progressive springs are practically new. Researching i find mixed results on in the cartridge emulators are compatible with a progressive rate springs. Are they compatible?
Progressive springs are good for comfort when riding in a straight line on a smooth road; they are bad for handling though, especially when braking or on rougher roads. They are just as bad for stock damper rods as they are for emulators, and putting the emulators in would still make your handling better, it just won't be as good as it would be with straight rate springs.
do the damping rods HAVE to be drilled out to install these?
Yes, they do. If you don't, they'll still give too much square damping effect. The idea about drilling them is to virtually disable them, so that the Emulators takes over the damping completely.
Good question! , that's the scary part.. drilling/disabling your original rod and then finding out the emulators do not perform like they should...
@@natanmortenfeld5813 trust me they WILL work. Put them in a 03 dyna. Couldn't believe the difference. (Slight exageration ahead) You can take speed bumps, almost at posted speed and feel a..... soft plushness to the front end. Not soft that it'll bottom out n be harsh, but smooth. Dont forget the ass end. NO FUCKING $300 GARBAGE PROGRESSIVE SHORT SHOCKS! If ya ain't gonna spend at least 900 on the rear give up. Ride a barstool instead.
Without drilling the emulators will work but only at lower suspension travel velocities (i.e. over relatively smooth pavement). At higher velocities, the damping would still mostly happen at the original damper rod holes (so it will likely be too harsh).
how to do adjustment then? remove fork spring and fish out the emulator, adjust then put everything back in?
Yes, you have to take out off the fork cap, washers, spacer, spring and Gold Valve Cartridge Emulator. Then use a 3/8" (9.5mm don't exist) wrench and a 5/32" (4mm) hex key to adjust the preload on the spring. You can also change the Gold Valve Cartridge Emulator Spring & Valve Plate, then there is oil Viscosity, Oil level. Then of course fork springs and there preload.
For more information see www.racetech.com/page/title/Emulator%20Tuning%20Guide
Snurre86 so the next version needs to have the nut held in place & a new fork cap with a long adjusting screw running all the way from the cap to the emulator. Then it’s adjustable on the trail.
@@simonmoynihan4476 you just described a cartridge lol
can these be used in conjunction with preload adjusters on top?
@ESR7784 bought them. Have yet to install
Some YT techs (lol) are saying to plug the tiny rebound hole at the top of the damper rod. True???
Racetech says nothing about the little hole.
Look up "DAMPING ROD FORKS and EMULATORS
HOW THEY WORK" on Racetech's website. Plugging that hole will make rebound damping extremely high since the oil would have basically no way of escaping chamber B.
Do I use the recommended fork oil weight from your website after installing the emulators or is that the weight for the damping rods?
Changing the viscosity of oil primarily affects the rebound. Try experimenting in various small increments. Also check for free sag, static sag, and rider sag.
So what about airation? I don’t think anything but a mono tube cartridge can do that. Fluid gets air in it. And dampening goes to hell.
Where can I get instructions on how to install the emulators on 2006 Kawasaki Concours?
THE BEST
expensive
Seems really gay