How To Install Gold Valve Emulators | The Shop Manual
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- Опубліковано 7 вер 2024
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Like the look of the restored Honda XL250 in this episode? It could be yours! Enter Cycle Gear’s 50th Anniversary Sweepstakes for a chance to win a custom 1974 Honda XL250 and a 2024 Honda Transalp! rvz.la/3yTooO3
Damper rod forks are common on motorcycles, and they’re total crap! Damper rods are an inherently flawed way to create suspension damping, but lots of bikes get them because they’re cheap to manufacture. Upgrade your damper-rod fork to work like a well-tuned cartridge fork with Race Tech’s Gold Valve Emulators. In this episode, Ari shows you how to install GVEs and goes over how to modify the damper rod, set oil height, and determine the proper preload-spacer length.
Ready to tackle your own fork rebuild? RevZilla has everything you need to install a set of Gold Valve Emulators and fully refresh your motorcycle’s fork.
Race Tech Gold Valve Emulators rvz.la/4bAshEZ
Fork Oil rvz.la/3VvfIX0
Motion Pro Pivot Suspension Vice rvz.la/3VvoN1X
Maxima Suspension Clean rvz.la/3RkFjPY
Stockton Fork-Oil Level Tool rvz.la/3XcTIRM
Fork Seals rvz.la/3Xe8hod
Fork Bushing Kits rvz.la/4e5acBw
Fork Seal & Bushing kits for Harleys rvz.la/45hN52U
Thanks to Progressive for sponsoring this episode of The Shop Manual. Learn more about America’s #1 motorcycle insurer at bit.ly/4aNHKS1
Like the look of the restored Honda XL250 in this episode? It could be yours. Enter Cycle Gear’s 50th Anniversary Sweepstakes for a chance to win a custom 1974 Honda XL250 and a 2024 Honda Transalp! rvz.la/45j4bgO
This was a great video but made me realize there needs to be a shop manual video for entire fork rebuilds. Cartridge style with bushings and seals!
Dave Moss Tuning has good vids on rebuilding all kinds of forks
@@floww2953 No I wouldn’t trust anything he says and neither should you
@@mikethetrike9193that's a pretty bold statement with nothing supporting it.
@@Wintersdark I’ve watched his videos he is not an expert but gives the impression that he is …I’m only saying I would not trust any Dave Moss advice
@@mikethetrike9193 I'm not talking about his tyre reading stuff that people have an issue with. I've used his vids to rebuild my forks and they were helpful
I'd love ari to have longer more in depth shop manual videos, similar to Zach on daily rider. All these repairs and knowledge work better in long detailed videos for us repair noobs.
Sat morning and a new Shop Manual…life is good!
Nice to see the Emulators getting some love. Heads up folks, these are the single most transformative change you can make to the functionality of damper rod forks. Huge bang for the buck.
They made my bike ride stiff and harsh on the recommended settings. It’s a pain to pull it apart a few more times to hopefully get it right.
@@toddsorel-pg4hr It is a pain I agree. Is it possible these settings were for a different bike, or where the race settings? Track settings are usually very stiff. When I figured this out I had an ah-ha moment and realized that 'fast' street riding is nowhere near track speeds. Road surface condition is usually terrible compare to track and that makes a big difference for this. Try the softest settings recommended or call them, they provide crazy high levels of support.
@@toddsorel-pg4hr well, different fols different settings. to know the exact settings, we need to try and error ourselves, except we pay suspension services 🤔🤔
If you want to be sure something cut with a hacksaw is square, give it to Allen Millyard :)
A quick note about the damper rod bolt- if you pull the inner fork tube against the top out spring you can usually get enough friction to stop it turning enough to get the bolt out. So while turning your wrench on the bolt, pull the inner tube away from you in the direction that the fork would top out if the front wheel was off the ground while riding. It might seem counterintuitive and a little awkward but once you figure it out you won't worry about that bolt again, even with hand tools.
Great demo, Ari!
Ari is such a good presenter that I watched this video even though I've worked with GVE's multiple times. And I still learned something!
Jubilee hose clamp when cutting the spacer tube to length ensures at square 90° end even when using a hacksaw
Loosen the top fork clamps first as these can put pressure on the fork caps
I always advise breaking to foot bolt free as the first step of fork service, with the weight of the bike on the spring it rarely spins on you. It is also important to know that many damper rod forks have a sleeve in the lower leg that the damping rod must be seated in correctly or you will have big problems. If you never removed the lower leg you would not be aware of this.
✌🏻👍🏻
I did this to my vintage CB750 last year and Racetech didn't just sell me some parts.. They sold me a whole new bike that was now rideable. Their vintage specialist (Matt I believe?) handled all my questions quickly then it was just a matter of getting the parts I needed through a Canadian retailer. An extra step we have to deal with but worth it.
Like Ari always says though, keep your shop manual nearby if you're attempting this job. Unless you're working on this exact bike, the steps Ari goes through may not be 100% accurate for your application.
Matt Wiley is RT's vintage specialist and he knows his stuff. RT also offers drum-brake refacing. They care about old bikes!
@@AriH211 Very cool!
This old 82 Nighthawk was my father's. It was the bike I learned to ride on and then it spent about 16 years deteriorating in a shed. I stripped that bike down to nothing to get the engine running again but the stock suspension was so awful it was barely rideable. I wasn't about to cut the bike loose but it wasn't looking good for it to remain in regular rotation. So, I did what every normal person does.. Spent $600 on a beat up 40 year old bike's suspension! Racetech saved my father's bike.
Jubilee hose clamp on the spacer tube ensures the cut is square at 90° even when using a hacksaw
Great tip!
Thank you! However, I serviced my forks before watching this and now I want this upgrade. lol, at least I now know how to do it faster.
To cut the spacer, a large tubing tubing cutter (the swinging kind that you spin spin around) works great. Guarantees a square cut, no burrs and is real easy. I just cut the stock steel spacer with it.
Glad Ari made this video, was an awesome upgrade for the suspension on my FZ-07.
Yes ensure cut and both ends are super flush at 90 or you'll get annoying fork noises.
Couldn't you loosen the damper rod bolt while it's on the bike? That way the weight of the bike will load the damper rod, keeping it in place while your turn the bolt.
I've had these in the majority of my bikes since the 90's. Can't recommend them enough.
It sux that simple damper rods are still used... It's literally well over 100 year old technology
Excellent video and explanation Ari. Thank you. One thing I would recommend is starting the top-cap thread by hand rather than going right at it with the socket wrench; too easy to cross-thread those fine-threads and that would be a bad day.
Those emulators are an engineering masterpiece, achieve much of the advantages of shim-dampening with clever oil circuits. I'd love to put them on my old ninja, just tough to justify the cost, they're a little expensive, awesome though.
These cartridge emulators really work well. Have used on numerous vintage MX and street bikes with good results. Adjustment is a PITA. So search forums etc to find applicable baseline data as a starting point
MAKE MORE SHOP MANUAL VIDEOS!!!!
Just installed emulators in my pregen Ninja 250. Completely transformed the handling.
Damn, I really needed this when I installed them 6 months ago. Lmao
More Ari please. We need weekly episodes.
Well done. It would be nice to see you take more old and vintage bikes and bring them back to life to inspire others instead of people being encouraged to plop down $15,000 on these electronic nightmares they’re pushing on us.
How to rebuild your forks ,
as " Ari " said "how to give a fork about your suspension."
Mc garage nostalgia ☺😀😁
Awesome I'm about to do this on my DR650. Have everything ready to go, just need the time. This video could not have come at a more perfect time.
Did a gold valve in my old GS a few years ago, its definitely not as good as a modern cartidge fork, but man is it a huge step up over how it was stock. Also Ari keeps mentioning racetech, they are fantastic to deal with. I'm a nobody, sent in an email asking what my options were, and heard back later in the day pretty much saying "yeah dawg, youll want this, this and this, give us a call when you are ready and we'll get your spring rate dialed and get it sent".
a bit of an old school shop manual style....love it!
Bicycle shops have a saw blade guide used for shortening steerer tubes that gives an accurate cut if someone isn't confident in the shown method. Or find a neighbor with a lathe..
And bicycle shop labor rates are stupid cheap.
Man, Ari this is just the best. I have a Honda rebel whose suspension leaves a lot to be desired. I’ll have to make sure I can do this to the bike. Thanks a lot man!
Same, I've been wanting to do this with my Versys x-300 for some time now.
For late model USD forks, swap the cartridges for quality stuff. Throw damper rods into the bottom of a sea.
I've done this on four bikes and I still found this a good watch. Racetech emulators aren't the same as Ohlins, but they're almost as good as regular cartridge forks. Huge step up from stock damper rod forks.
I hate emulation tube dampers; best thing I ever did to my Kawasaki Concours ZG1000A16 was the retrofit of those valves.
This is an excellent tutorial. Thanks, Ari!
Hey ari, do some videos with simple motorcycles like the Himalayan.
Really really well done! Thanks for taking the time to make this.
Just did this a few months ago on my cb500f with the YSS kit (race tech has a local distributor in my country with an exclusivity contract that adds serious $$ to the price), it made so much difference! I kind of did the emulator upgrade on a whim as I was changing the springs for something much less soft, but it turned out the emulators totally transformed the front end. It went from unresponsive mush to just feeling tight and locked in, definitely recommend!
This is the second thing I did on my bike - right after replacing the awful stock organic brake pads with some sintered metallic pads.
I installed these on an FJ1200 many years ago. Certainly helped the harshness on square edged bumps, but tuning was an iterative, time consuming process that involves tearing down the fork if you wanted something different.
If I can get a cartridge setup for say $750-800 that I can install and then have external adjusters, I am doing that instead.
great video, breaks it down very well. I wish this video existed before i did my 86 GoldWing fork rebuild and Gold Valve install! would have saved me some time, stress, and a phone call to RaceTech, but they were very helpful and got me on the right track.
What fun is that, I always put oil on the floor when I do forks and get extra points if I can get some on the ceiling! Nice video, good tips, but the neatness looses points!
Suspension upgrades before anything else on your bike. (Okay, well, put some fuel in it/charge...)
Finally, someone with common sense!
If you guys are feeling inspired to do more videos about forks, the whole fork oil "weight" is a fun dive into miscommunication. :)
Excellent Ari ,Thank you.
Great bit of advice Thanks
Outstanding Ari
Fantastic!
Ari the Shop Wizard. Great tutorial.
I am new, a newbie! Very confident I will not do this alone but the way you present it I could. Love how you keep it simple. 💯
Excellent!
Would love something like this for my 06 250cc scooter.
Another great video! Been waiting for this one for a while, need to set up some vintage MX bikes with these valves. Keep up the great work at this channel!
A mitre box for cutting the pipe would likely help keep the spacer cut square.
i take out the damer prd bolt completely before taking out the spring. its messier but not haveing to put it all back together twice is nice. espicly when there is a lot of preload.
Yup, that's always an option. Whatever works!
@@AriH211 the first time i ever did forks i ran into the all the frustrations with that bolt. that old kdx 200 had like 2 full inches of front preload stock and a super fine thread for the cap that could cross thead like nothing. assembly meant putting them back on the bike tighten the lower triple clamp and put my weight on a speed wrench and carefully wind it in. i did not want to do that any more then i had to.
after the first one i decided to just take that bolt out first. and I've just kept with doing it that way ever since. dont want to reli on getting lucky when doing this stuff.
I enjoyed it and learned something new
By any chance, can you fit these to a motocompacto used to pilfer Canadian dry goods stores while wearing tweed?
Oh, a new fort nine video, I wonder what it's about? Now your comment makes sense !
DIY fork oil level/air gap hack - Use your vacuum bleeder. Cut a small piece of 1/4" copper tubing a inch or 2 longer than your required fork oil level. Mine is 110mm. Mark your copper tubing at 110mm with a sharpy and then push your vacuum tubing onto the copper tube to your mark. Zip-tie it in place. Insert the copper tube using the vacuum tube to rest on the top lip of the fork tube. Now use your vacuum bleeder to suck out the extra fork oil.
I have race tech gold valves in my 1998 sportster, well worth the money.
I went with the Cogent Dynamics Direct Drop In Cartridge (DDC) over the Gold Valve.. I think they were about the same price, but easier installation for the DDC. Not sure if they work as well as the Gold Cartridges, but I could tell a difference over my stock suspension for sure.
Great video
Love your work mate!
Great video, Ari.
I added Gold Valves and Racetech springs to my K75S and set everything according to the recommended settings. Now the front is stiff and jarring. Not sure why that would be the default setup for my weight and my bike but now I need to do countless trial and error adjustments, taking the forks apart each time to get it right. My rear Hyperpro shock is the same. I have no clue why suspension companies think that stiff and harsh equals good handling.
My chances of f this up are close to 99%. Let’s do it!
Thanks, Ari!
The "day's effort" is the hard part especially if you want a more customized damper/rebound ratio. 😂
You can do it in about 3 hours the first time.
They are pretty easy to adjust with the proper tools. If you're wanting to adjust the spring preload on the adjusters, you can use a spring loaded claw tool grabber to reach down the spring and grab the tiny spring on the emulator and use that to pull everything up out of the oil nice and slow so the oil stays in the fork. Adjust the emulator how you want, lower it back down with the same tool, you can feel it seat properly on the damper rod with one hand adding a little tension to the fork spring against the tool as you lower it down.
Great video!!! 😃 I went with the Cogent Dynamics DDCs on my DR650, mainly because of the ease of installation - no drilling required, you just go with a lower viscosity fork oil to disable the damper rod. However, you can’t frink around with them like you can with the RaceTech emulators. I am very pleased with them and they are _way_ better than the stock forks, but I do find them just a bit over-damped for bopping around town. Were I to do it all over again, I’d go with the RaceTech emulators, so I could dial them in just so. Either way, cartridge emulators are a _huge_ improvement over a stock damper rod fork setup. 😃
Turkey blaster works too
Coffee, weed and the shop manual. Great way to start the weekend
Btw can we all agree that damper rods forks on anything other than some most cheap scooters in this day(and even 20years ago) is a fucking crime....😂
Always I learn something new from Ari.
Always wondered how those Racetech emulators are installed.
After watching this, I feel like I can do it myself! But knowing my luck... Something may be stuck and halt the project for a week
Did exactly this to my bike. Took away the wallowing at speed and most of the harshness on pot holes etc. I would still like to remove some brake dive - add a couple of turns to the valve or firmer springs?
While emulators work great and I've ran a set in a KLR650. There's a much easier to install product that does the same thing out now. The cogent ddc valve or ricor imtiminator are available for a lot of dual sport bikes. To run these valves you simply shorten the spacer, drop them in and run thinner 5wt oil that flows right through the dampener rod.
I have the imtiminators in my dr650, I cant tell much difference between them and the emulators I had in a KLR650, both are night and day better than stock.
Without drilling damper rod you can't get full benefit of emulators, cuz u still have that flow bottleneck for sharp hits.
Thinner oil is like bandaid more than fix
@@Angry-Lynx I'm aware the emulators dont work without drilling the damper rod.
The other fork inserts do tho, they are designed to work with thin oil and out sell emulators 10-1 for bikes like the dr650 or klr650.
Big improvement, yes, but they have poor low speed samping control. The emulators lift off the rods just enough that LSD is all but nonexistant, but at least HSD isn't like a jackhammer with stock rods. Really noticeable with long travel suspension on dual sports.
I'd argue HSD is THE biggest issue with all suspension and all bikes and it is what really defines good suspension.
Had wp43 from ktm640 on my old AT with 320mm travel dude that thing was out of this world smooth,.I'm pretty sure cone.valve.isnt as good as that setup was,.u basically couldn't feel when front wheel got on 10cm sidewalk, at any speed,
If u can do GOOD enduro forks swap it's worth every money
I JUST did the fork seals.
Thanks Ari -- I have a 75 R90S in my garage thats been a candidate for this job for a while. Given that BMW does everything a little weird, are there any things dramatically different in my forks than the ones you worked on here?
Oh man. That vice. Where's my wallet?!
tks
And most people don't realize they they need to do fork oil maintenance more often.
@revzilla What are the limitations of the emulators where a rider still would need to upgrade cartridges and rear shock?
having to pull them apart to adjust them sucks though.
Anyone good with diagnosing fork noise? Short travel rod damper forks on a honda PCX. Makes a noise like fork top out, at anywhere between zero travel and almost all of it. Been to 20 mechanics, most can't hear it (they don't want the job...) the rest are like, so? Almost all honda mechanics say no problem, but no other fork has ever sounded or felt like this. Tried rebuilding, tried new oil locks, top out spring, replacing all internal washers with genuine honda parts ordered from honda. Then new lowers (incase bush worn), then new springs (one measured about 5mm short, the other 3mm short of spec), then upper stanchions incase they'd been replaces with aftermarket (mechanic reckoned they were worn). So basically have an entire new fork, even spacers! Went to a dirt bike shop who recommended the emulators, YSS sold here, gold valve not available without massive import duties. Instructions from YSs are pretty poor. Drilled out the compression holes, left rebound holes alone, new oil control and dust seals and upped to 15wt as per YSs. Rides way better, much more useful compression behaviour, but hardly any rebound, upped to 20wt, compression became too harsh on high velocity hits and rebound better but still a tad fast if I'm honest. Tried backing off the emulator compression side to Basically the minimum (YSs spec default setting as 2.5 turns in on the preload Spring. This this, tried 4 turns, 6 turns and hen all the way back to just one turn to hold the compressor valve lightly closed which is nicest position). So damping performance I'm now happy, scoot handles really damn well, sag is perfect for weight, doesn't dive into the bottom out position every time you break hard.
BUT.
Damn tap tap tap noise all the time. Pedestrians can hear it and literally turn to look at me as if to say "mate sounds like your front wheel is about to fall off".
Head bearings new, all honda parts, tried running more preload on them but no difference so it's not that.
Tried riding with entire front end plastic removed, ECU and others stuff all zip tied to hell, not the problem. Tried removing and tie up front brake caliper incase it's glide pins or pad slap. Nope.
Tried new front wheel bearings. Nope.
Tried front wheel bearing spacer. Nope
Tried a different front wheel off another scooter incase something inside the wheel casting..nope
Tried new mudguard. better!
Tried with no mudguard. Problem gone!
Tried replacement new mudguard and new hardware, problem returns.
Try adjusting one side of fork spring preload to be a few turns ahead (3-5) of the other side (normally a bad thing) and problem gone, for about 1km then returns.
So it's like something to do with one side of the fork being longer internally than the other? Or the spring is slapping the inside of fork leg? But tried every possible combo of new honda parts, old honda parts from my bike, old fork parts from another bike and every mix of YSs spring, spacer etc. obviously fork behaves differently with these wrong combo but noise is still there.
6 months of faff. Super annoying and loud to ride around town. Enough is enough so went to trade scooter in against a new one. Went to the honda dealer that previously said they couldn't hear anything, right away, they want to deduct a bunch of money because "front end sounds noisy, fork must be damaged". But then they aren't able to suggest why it's noisy?
Maybe I should just commit insurance fraud as it's driving me insane. You can hear it at 5km to 100kmh over the wind noise when you hit small bumps in the road (5 to 20mm square edge bumps).
If anyone got any glues. Hit me up before I get even more fed up. Internally fork is similar to any open bath, emulsion rod type fork
I did progressive springs, how much better are these?
Hi Ari, recently I changed the fork oil & seals on my ninja 250r. However my fork caps are now leaking a small amount of oil right at the top. I'm about to disassemble them and fix the problem but before I do, I was wondering if you had any advice!
Can we get an air filter episode?
Is it really worth all that effort? also what are you supposed to do with the rear shock that is also trash lol
Great vid. Give me 5 minutes, I'll buy a fully equipped garage and an old shitty bike and start working on it.
just take it to a suspension/mx shop, too much risk. they have the right tools, they have the right hands
Yup I wanted to do this many times but I always see how much work it is and how many things to go wrong.... Fuck that 😂 I'll pay for it anyday
how did ari extend the swing arm
Allen Millyard uses a hacksaw, just like Ari
Thank you Ari. Did I understand correctly that this was a CRF250F fork that you adapted to the XL250 ? If so, why is that I cannot find a CRF250F Gold Valve emulator as a purchasable option?
That's correct. Not sure why the GVE isn't showing up for you. Let me talk to ZLA's Commerce team to see what's up. If I was at the shop I'd pull the p/n off the product box for you. You can always call Race Tech directly and they'll get you set up as well.
@@AriH211 Thank you very much!
Pneumatic impact gun?
What year is it?!
yeah I'm gonna pay an expert for this type of work. lol
What? No Motul fork oil? Zack & Spurg would be so disappointed!😢
I wish those gold valves were that cheap for my 2007 fjr, they’re $449 for me. 😢
This guy forks.