The Fall of a Leader: Lessons from Steve Lawson’s Departure
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- Опубліковано 24 вер 2024
- Yesterday, the elders at Trinity Bible Church in Dallas, Texas announced that their lead preacher, Steve Lawson, was involved in an “inappropriate relationship” with a woman. This revelation was serious enough to lead to Lawson’s departure from TBC and likely his broader ministry career. Ligonier Ministries, where he served as a teaching fellow, and The Master’s Seminary, where he held the position of Dean of D.Min. Studies, have removed him from their respective websites.
This news has sent shockwaves through the Reformed evangelical community, particularly among those who have long appreciated the ministries of R.C. Sproul (Ligonier) and John MacArthur (Master’s). I’ve received numerous messages from friends expressing their astonishment, with one asking me if it was true. Sadly, it is. The reaction earlier this year when Alistair Begg affirmed his support for attending a same-sex wedding was similar. It raises a troubling question: how can someone who taught the Scriptures so effectively find themselves compromised on such fundamental moral issues?
Full article: truthscript.com
So sad. 73 years old. Never be self assured. The battle over sin only ends at death. Be wise in old age.
Well it's a "battle" when Jesus hasn't saved you (FROM THE POWER OF SIN: Matthew 1:21, John 8:34-36) and you're not born of God/born again/born of the Spirit: 1st John 3.
That's what it says in 1st John 3.
Do you not agree? Do you not believe the Word of God?
That's the issue!
@@leenieledejo6849Paul said he struggles with the flesh.
@@caitlinsoliman1658 No, he doesn't. You need to read again and again and study (i.e FOCUS. It doesn't mean "look up men's commentaries") Romans 7 in its proper context. That means WITH Romans 6 & 8 and in the context of ALL his letters as well as Acts.
My heart goes out to Mrs Lawson as she is the one most deeply affected. 🙏
She’s probably happy it’s finally out in the open. Keeping secrets and pretending everything is ok is never fun.
@kenlyharmon9118 Are you assuming that she knew of her husband's sin? In other words, that she was hiding something and must be relieved that it's finally known, or that Steve was hiding his sin and finally brought it to the attention of the elders?
@@thomasrayborn3177 What sin? Hadn't God predetermined all his actions? He was only doing what God had predetermined him to do. How dare you question God's sovereignty?
I'm a part of the church where Dr. Lawson was the lead preacher. I find that coverage like this is so much more helpful & edifying than the sensationalism that is occurring. I think that many forget that there are very real people involved, the elders are doing their best to shepherd & protect the immediate congregation, and many are hurting deeply during this time. Thank you, Jon, for handling this with care, perceptiveness, and compassion. The only other comment I will make is to also direct others to Matthew Everhard's channel and to his equally respectful & prudent commentary on this.
ua-cam.com/video/2NY88oC4wFk/v-deo.htmlsi=8cpsHlCsi1I09ss6
I'm very sorry. This is so very sad.
Saddened by the situation but glad to know a fellow churchgoer follows Jon's channel, too.
@Sparrow-sz9it praying for you all.
I am praying for your church family and the leadership. My heart goes out to y’all.
Well said
He was my pastor for five years, 2010-15. I learned more in 6 mos than in the previous 25 years. I loved his passion and unswerving dedication. Never imagined this would happen, still difficult to process. Steve and his family, his flock and all those who are thankful for his teaching are in my prayers.
I also learned from him but from afar, on you tube and podcasts. This is very tough but God is in control.
@SK-mz4cq according to calvinism, God actually decreed it.
@@darlenehelton7 Exactly. You beat me to it...
There is no excuse for pastors not following the Billy Graham Rule. Counsel a woman in the company of her own husband or in the company of your own wife. Even if a pastor has no libido and no concern for falling into sexual sin, he needs to protect himself against the possibility of false accusations in the MeToo age.
😮 Billy Graham was a false teacher. Works based not biblical. Pope loving. Said catholic religion is Christian.. no it is not. Pray for you to see the truth about Billy and now Franklin..God's peace
@@debraisola9037 I think we can still affirm what's good and wise and learn from what Graham got right without giving blanket approval over his entire ministry. We can graciously assume that's all the original commentator and Harris meant to do.
The billy graham rule is not a biblical one. It is a troubleshoot attempting to correct a problem rather than getting to the real heart of the matter. A culture with a twisted perspective on sex and other people is going to need to be rehabilitated. Purity culture, which really is what the billy graham rule is, is an attempt to build a restrictive cage around sexual deviants. That may be a harsh way to put that, but I don’t want to downplay the problem. The sickness is in the way we think.
God told Adam not to eat the fruit of the tree, not to build a barricade around it and make it impossible to do. Making something impossible to do doesn’t do anything for your heart and your mind.
Purity movements and MeToo and various rules here and there are all only responses to a sickness of the mind that needs to be renewed.
Troubleshooting vs Problem Solving.
@@JonathanGrandtjoseph fled from potiphars wife, Jesus commanded to cut off everything that causes a person to sin and paul stated that we should stay away from the very appearance of sin. Therefore it is rather biblical and pretty wise to build barriers between sin and oneself. Man is fallen and his whole nature is corrupted. This applies also to Christians and won’t change much as long as being in mortal flesh.
I agree with you though, that one should also focus to let God change him from the inside. However this can best be achieved, when one isn’t bothered with fighting temptations all the time.
That rule is not great, in fact, women counsel women, in our church when a man counsels a woman is usually in the context of couple counseling. A man counseling a woman, even with another woman present is just an Invitation for temptation
“The best of men are only men at their very best. Patriarchs, prophets, and apostles-martyrs, fathers, reformers, Puritans-all are sinners, who need a Savior: holy, useful, honorable in their place-but sinners after all.”
J.C. Ryle
OK son, I am old enough to be your grandmother, i’ve been a christ follower since a child, I have seen Godly people, rise and fall, and I have fell myself, but one thing I know the Godly never turn away from the God who saved them , for He is also the God who forgives them and keep them. Praying that Steve Lawson will humble himself repent, and walk closer with the God who chose him . 🙏
Scripture disagrees with you.
1 Corinthians 5:11-13
11 But now I wrote to you not to associate intimately; if anyone is called a brother and is either immoral, or a
covetous one, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortionist, with such a one do not even break bread to eat with.
12 For what business is it to me to judge the ones outside the congregation? But you may make judgments on those inside the congregation.
13 But Elohim will judge the ones outside. "And you shall put out from yourselves those wicked persons."
@@PatriotEdge
It seems pretty clear that from the rest of chapter 5 that unrepentance is in mind (the man who slept with his step mom)
Matthew 18 and Galatians 6:1 and 2 Thessalonians 3 disagree with you brother. The conclusion of 1 Corinthians 5 can only be for those who go through the 4 steps of Matthew 18 with unrepentance.
He has brought this to light, so it looks like he is sincere, but only God his heart
These types of sins have their basis in idolatry. Sexual sin is the tip of the iceberg.
.
Very few evangelical church's preach the Pauline heavenly gospel, so there are bound to be problems like this coming up. Christians have to have a perfect position in heavenly places to abide in or there is no basis on which to not sin.
I think it was Paul Washer that said that people don’t just “fall” into sin, they slide into it, through a series of willful decisions and compromises
Yeah, he was the first one to say that.
What? Willful.... Isn't that antithetical to Calvinism?
@@SheepDog1974 Calvinists have no doubt that people (including ourselves) will their way into sin. It's the willing ourselves out of sin that is the problem. 😉
@@baj3085 the point being. God created us with free will. Choose life or choose death. Life is found only in Jesus Christ
@@SheepDog1974 The point being that we were dead in our sins until God made us alive together with Christ. Even faith is a gift of God's grace so that no one can boast. We must be born again by the Holy Spirit, and we can't "born again" ourselves. We do choose to walk by faith, but choose to do this after the Holy Spirit regenerates us.
I don't see prevenient grace in the Bible.
The wisest man in the Bible fell into sexual sin, the strongest man in the Bible fell to sexual sin, and the godliest man in the Bible fell to sexual sin.
For me to think I'm above falling into this sin is to think that I'm wiser than Solomon, stronger than Samson, and godlier than King David.
Voddie Baucham
Those Biblical examples serve as warnings. No excuse for this despicable behavior.
When did Paul fall into sexual sin? When did Peter? When did John? When did James, Luke, Mark or Matthew?
Stop making blanket statements.
@@wanda520 Warnings for sure, but also examples of what does happen, not what should. That is no excuse. Each of those examples paid a heavy price, that if taken to heart, should cause motivation to not sin.
@@chuckcribbs3398 I don't see a blanket statement there, just a warning. And sexual sin is not the only sin that matters, and it seems that Peter and Paul did questionably sin. Paul pointed hypocrisy in Peter. Paul rejected John Mark, but appears John was reclaimed by others. Paul spoke of the dichotomy of his fallen nature in Rm 7. We are unaware of the severity. And Paul did warn Timothy to flee youthful lusts, and Peter urged us to abstain from fleshly lusts - that would not have been urged if the problem was not real in fact, or at least in potential. Be careful on how high a horse you sit. The next fall could be your own.
David was the godliest man in the Bible?
I've been in the evangelical church all my life. I professed faith as a child, got baptized in high school, was very sensitive and sincere, became reformed 20+ years ago in my late 20's (50 now). I knew all the doctrine. I read tons of books (Spurgeon, Sproul, Piper, the Puritans etc). I listened to and enjoyed tons of sermons (Paul Washer, MacArthur, Voddie, Alistair Begg, Sinclair Ferguson, etc, etc, etc). I confessed all the right truths. I had solid theology, read the Bible, taught a small group, and led worship at church. I really understood the Biblical Gospel message! I delighted in the Biblical Gospel message. I knew (intellectually at least) that Jesus is the Savior of the World, the Risen Son of God, Light of the World, whose penal substitutionary sacrifice, and perfect imputed righteousness is the only Hope for sinful man.
All that time, I also had a generally losing struggle with porn. I both loved and hated porn. I did not have assurance of faith. I would frequently go months on end hardly ever reading the Bible. I was sincere in some ways, but also always double minded in a sense too (like the book of James talks about). I had a secret double life with excessive drinking and porn (by God's mercy no adultery or fornication). I also had a bizarre obsession with the polygamy practiced by Old Testament saints (which was lawful marriage). I craved more wives. I thought that polygamy might satisfy my heart. I caused a ton of sorrow to many, especially my dear wife.
About two years ago (December 8, 2022, God did something gracious to me. He opened my eyes, and I saw Christ in a new way. I believed in a way thar I hadn't before. My eyes were filled with light. I saw Jesus, truly Saw Him, like I never had before, and I was forever changed.
In the blink of an eye, He became my Life, my Treasure, my Everything! I beheld the Light of the World!
The way I saw woman changed dramatically. I saw the evil of my sin far more than before. I grieved the sorrow I had caused my wife. The Bible totally came alive to me like it never had before. Now, I read it every day. I knew that porn had to go, and a few weeks later, I quit it forever. I've been free of it since. I now really have assurance, and people have noticed a major change. My obsession with getting more wives also evaporated and was cast down at the feet of Christ.
Christ now satisfies me, and I am content with one woman!
I wonder if that was when I was truly converted or regenerated. I kinda think so. I don't know for sure. Maybe, I was a true believer before, but likely not.
When I hear stories like this ( or Joshua Harris, Art Azurdia, Ravi Zacharias, Tullian Tavichian etc) I assume they are something like I was prior to Dec. 2022. 😢
Maybe it's like Paul and Demas. Paul persevered, while it seems like Demas didn't.
I think a lot of pastors (even famous super pastors) are badly compromised like I was (though often expressed or manifested in different ways, with different sins). I think a lot of them are, and it often comes out in the fear of man, rather than the fear of God. Eventually, these things will come out, and it is often sexual.
I struggle with porn too and am trying to break free of it. Please pray for me. I hate it and want to completely rid it from my life. I believe all things are possible with God but it’s hard honestly.
@@tromboneman4517 I will pray for you, that the Light of the World will shine into your heart so powerfully that porn no longer has any place. The Son of God is our only Hope!
@@tromboneman4517- it really can help to get into a Christian support group with other men and find an accountability partner; it can also help to get Covenant Eyes which tracks your online activity and you choose the logs to go to your accountability partner.
I'm with you, brother. My similar struggles have required significant spiritual sweat. For sure, God did not take these weaknesses away because of the many times I prayed.
Porn is adultery.
In the sense of restoration if a man a pastor has betrayed his wife, children, congregation, how could he ever stand in a pulpit again
I don't think he can ever lead in the church again.
May be the Bible is clear 😮
You have t step down.
Perspectives from a French Pentecostal brother in his elderly time.be on guard and May the Lord protect you. In JC
Not after dipping his wick.
He cannot. We are talking about other things.
Perhaps he was never truly a regenerate believer, and needs to be saved. Perhaps he is and has been a true believer, but has fallen into terrible sin. Here, we are talking about the restoration of his faith, and walk with Christ. We are also talking about him being restored as a member of Christ's Church.
This type of failure, at age of 73, and after 50 years of public ministry, would obviously bar him from ever again serving as an elder.
The mercy of God, bought with the Blood of the Lamb however, is still available to the one who humbly believes and repents.
Perfectly said. He can be restored into community but not back into pastoral ministry
A video clip from Steve Lawson's final sermon to his congregation has been posted on Twitter.
In the clip, Lawson said: “And you should not judge a man by his one weak moment. You need to look at the whole body of his work. You need to look at his whole message. You need to look at his whole ministry. And don’t judge him on one hiccup that happens.”
It is pretty clear that Lawson was speaking about himself. He did not use this opportunity to publicly confess to his congregation. Rather, he used the opportunity to minimize his actions as being "one weak moment" and "one hiccup that happens."
After seeing this clip, I totally understand why the elder board shut him down without pay and is moving forward without him.
While that statement is true generally speaking, his situation doesn't qualify as "one weak moment" and "one hiccup."
Agree
Dr. Lawson should reacquaint himself with "'A little leaven spoils the whole lump." Begg destroyed "the Man on the middle cross said I could come." by telling a grandmother to bring a gift to a transgender wedding.
Yes, exactly.
That statement struck me, too.
I really wish folks wouldn’t take down great Christian content when things like this happen. I certainly do not condone mr. Lawson‘s behavior, but I have listened to hours and hours of great content from Mr. Lawson. I am just glad we didn’t take the psalms out of the Bible after king David had a relationship with Bathsheba.
Exactly 💯🙏
Is there a difference as David didn't make $$ off his Psalms so people were not financially supporting him? Serious question, and not snarky. I think there is a difference.
The difference is that David took responsibility for his free will choices.
@@mimisides exactly
When Peter denied Jesus three times, the Bible says, "And Peter went out and wept bitterly" (Luke 22:62). Our brother Steve Lawson is no doubt doing the same. Pray for his healing, and pray that people will realize that the Gospel of Jesus is true even when its believers (all of us) fail Him.
So tell me - since he believes in meticulous predeterminism why is he weeping? Didn't he only do it because God had predetermined it
@@mimisides The first commandment shows that above all else God wants us to love Him. However, in His wisdom God knows that genuine love must be voluntary, that it cannot be coerced, so in this lifetime he gives us the gift of free will to choose to love Him or rebel against Him, but it is limited free will that can be exercised only between birth and death. Like Peter, a true follower of Jesus will be pierced to the heart when he or she fails to show love for God by keeping his commandments. As Jesus said, "If you love me, you will keep my commandments (teachings)." That's how it works here in space-time. In eternity, however, there is no free will. There is only God's will.
@@mimisides God is sovereign and yet we are responsible. Every molecule in your body is maintained by God at every moment, so when you si, you are literally moving in the very presence and power of God, being sustained by his power. If you really think about it, which is what the Bible clearly teaches, your position does not really help God because he is the one giving you not only the power and opportunity but not stopping you from doing evil. Why? "Because he limits himself to give us free will"? Is that it? Where did you get this idea, because that is a philosophical statement not found in the Bible.
But the fact is, in your view, in which God is evil for predetermining evil, God would also be evil for allowing sim to happen. That's the atheistic argument and they would be right if that was the truth. But fortunately it's not.
The fact is God does determine everything that happen. And yet he has done that in a way that moral agents can willingly do what he has determined. How? He doesn't tell us but that his ways are so higher than ours we won't be able to understand.
@@mimisides you clearly don't understand the position
I hadn't listened to Steve preaching for years, though I did respect him as a mature man of God, who despite the troubles in the church at the moment, was steadfast.
Your take Jon was very insightful, and I respect what you've said.
I am praying for Steve and his family, I was glad to hear that he confessed his sin, showing some level of conviction. I also don't see him ever being back in a leadership role he's disqualified himself.
The main thing is Christ is building His church, and that's where our faith and trust need to be.
Soli Deo Gloria. 1 Peter 1:24.
God will use this for His Glory. I have found 2 men who have solid views on this sin. (You are 1 of them) Men I would probably never have found otherwise. I am praying for Steve, because I know exactly what he feels. I have been through the pain of being a cheater. I let my sinful flesh tear me to pieces and had the devil cook my flesh. 20 years past and my life is not the same. I don't love anyone else like I loved her and never will. She however (praise God) found love, marriage, has children, and still has all the people I loved to love her. God help Steven Lawson. Not all sins are equal in the eyes of men. I'm forgiven by my Lord and even forgiven by her and most of the people affected. I am still not the same inside and lost my whole spiritual family. Many of those people I would take a bullet for still to this day. God Bless you all. God have mercy on us all.
Soo heartbreaking! But the Lord is good! But yes, there are still consequences to our sin. We live in such a sexually immoral world. So pagan. Oh if all would only count the cost of their sin. Many throw away their marriage with mere images on a screen. Sin has its pleasure for a season but the way of the transgressor is hard. 😞 we all need to learn from Esau who sold his birthright for a bowl of soup.
“See to it that no one fails to obtain the grace of God; that no “root of bitterness” springs up and causes trouble, and by it many become defiled; that no one is sexually immoral or unholy like Esau, who sold his birthright for a single meal. For you know that afterward, when he desired to inherit the blessing, he was rejected, for he found no chance to repent, though he sought it with tears.” Hebrews 12:15-17
No sexual sin is worth throwing everything away. No sin is worth dishonoring the Lord. The Lord’s ways are always right, clean, and perfect and life is so much better when we follow His ways.
@mdb. From your post, I really like the way you own it. God bless you brother, it seems like you're on the right path now!
Did God decree that this happen, so then he could use it for his glory? I’m trying to gather how Calvinists feel about this.
This is heartbreaking! I pray for our Christian community, his wife and family. I pray he truly repents as this sin will stay with him forever. Once sin strikes, the regret can be overwhelming.🙏💔😥
@@000MrJwright, God does not tempt us. God tests us. Satan tempts us by using our own human desires and weaknesses. God COULD HAVE STOPPED Lawson by changing Lawson’s heart to desire his wife and sexually abhor other women, right? God allowed Lawson to be tempted, and Lawson, himself, sinned against God.
Think about it: God can give us desires in our heart that are foolish to the world, right? Like believing there is a God who sent His son to die on a cross for sinners. God can also withdraw from a person, like God did with Pharoah when the Bible says, “God hardened Pharoah’s heart,” Exodus 7:13. We do not get to Heaven through our own Righteousness, but by Jesus’ Righteousness. We all are human and have temptations, true? If you say you do not sin you are a liar. We all need to obey God’s commandments, but we fail every day by not loving God with all our heart, mind and soul. CHURCH, LISTEN! Our bodies belong to God, so we need to eat healthy foods and exercise to stay strong, especially as you get into your sixties and older, so we need strong bodies, but Pornography is RAMPANT in our society now; everywhere you look, even in churches, there are half-dressed women! If you lust with your eyes and in your heart, you TOO have sinned against God in a very real EVIL way, and your prayers are stunted until you repent. This whole crisis is showing that MANY MORE CHRISTIAN men are probably dealing with sexual lust. What can be done? Perhaps a men’s Christian movement that captures the whole world’s attention and WE NEED TO PUSH PORNOGRAPHY OUT OF OUR LIVES, we need to do a drastic measure because men think it’s normal to think about sex. The Bible warns us: Sexual sin is grievous sin that is AWFUL in God’s sight. We serve a HOLY and AWESOME God!
My best friend had an emotional affair. I was able to talk to him and his wife while they were reconciling. One thing that stood out to me was that the wife said it would have been easier if it was a physical affair with no emotional attachment. What hurt her most was that he was discussing things and confiding in another woman what he should have been sharing with his wife.
I couldn't agree more with the wife. I'm not sure, but the wife can forgive but will never forget the hurt he caused her.
I hear this more now: 'emotional affair'
Is this adultery?
What is the biblical diffinition of adultery?
@@Savedbygrace60 The Biblical definition of adultery is when a man has sexual intercourse with a woman married to another man (the marital status of the woman being the key point).
Here are a few Biblical passages for consideration.
Leviticus 18:20
Leviticus 20:10
Numbers 5:12-13
Deuteronomy 22:22-24
2nd Samuel 12 (9-11)
Proverbs 6:28-29
Proverbs 7 (note verse 19)
Romans 7:2-3
1st Thessalonians 4 (note the context of wronging of his brother, presumably the husband in verse 6).
In Matthew 5:27-28 the Lord Jesus Christ equates lusting with adultery of the heart. In this passage, Christ uses the Greek word for wife, or married woman. This correlates with the 10th Commandment against coveting (where another man's wife is one of the things we are specifically prohibited from coveting).
That's the Biblical definition.
Deuteronomy 5:21 (coveting)
@@Savedbygrace60Here are a few more Biblical passages indicating the Biblical definition of adultery as a man having intercourse with the wife of another. I forgot to include them above.
Genesis 20:3
Genesis 39:7-9
His wife's name is Anne. He told us how he picked out her ring. He has spoken about his days of being a football player who won a scholarship. He has spoken on many personal things about his life. He also said he was a virgin when he married. This could be the temptation the devil used to hook him. What is it like to be with another woman? Yes, he should have traveled with his wife. He did have pride. He was always messing with Ken and some of his ribbings were to me arrogant in jest. I will continue to pray and support him. I have his books, tapes, etc. This with hope will set Steve on the right path with the Lord which is more important than with people. We must look to Christ and not man for perfection.
What a load of nonsense. First of all, there is NO Devil!!!! Get that through your head and grow up. Being a Christian does NOT make you better than the non-Christian and it does not necessarily protect you from all the trials and tribulations that everyone else suffers. The saddest things about all of this is that Steve Lawson spent so much pulpit time criticizing everyone else and calling out "false preachers" as if only he is right. And now look at him.
We don't need pastors who feel like they have to be involved in every major ministry. We need pastors who know their limitations, feed their flock, and cherish their wives. Most importantly, we need pastors who walk close to God and live out their faith in everyday ways.
Pastor Mark Jones has a good point on this issue. "Beware of ecclesiastical fame. There are few who can run a good race to the end when they are persistently treated like a god. They begin to think they have special rules and the sycophants they surround themselves with play a part in creating this illusion."
If we live long enough we will all go down in scandal or something from early on will be uncovered. Noone can hide from the internet age.
@@manonthestars Steve was not that great. He did not stay in one place very long. He lectured but showed no love or grace. I discerned that he gave book reports but had no true knowledge. Does Christ live in him? Remember Ravi. The travelers are all frauds.
Yes! It’s hard to remain humble when everyone is praising your sermons. God will NOT let man steal Hid glory. Pray for your favorite teachers and preachers so that they’ll remain humble and faithful.
Excellent presentation Jon, I realized I gave Lawson approval because of the amount of respect I have for John MacArthur. Lawson was by extension given a nod because he was so closely connected to Shepherds Conference and Grace Church and Seminary. This fall is so sad but I believe it’s so clear that we cling to Jesus Christ alone never to a pastor.
Good job. Two men that sell books and make lots of money. How much money did Paul make writing half the NT??
MacArthur has three houses, a pool and a tennis court. Did Paul??
Your comment is so true it hurts! I repented!
Not completely true. He's himself a good preacher and had a fruitful ministry that edified many.
Me too, so upsetting😢
Well that was your first mistake…trusting Johnny Macmac😮😢
Thank you John for your response to this situation. I’m grieving for Steven Lawson and his family, for his church, and for the kingdom of Christ. This is so damaging and heartbreaking. But as serious and sad as all this is, the gates of hell will not prevail against the Church.
Wich Church?one of like 40000 or all of them?when all ,then Chatolic and orthodocs too,when yes there is no need to 40000 plus denominaton of protestant.there is only one church founded by Jesus Christ on his Apostels
We all need to remember that until we get to the other side. We are still sinners in need of a savior!
Thank you so much for that, Jon. You articulated well a lot of the things I have been thinking and saying in my own very inarticulate way, including that my faith was not shaken by this because it's built on nothing less than Jesus' Blood and Righteousness. Praying for everyone involved. God bless.
I think it's a balance. If your entire walk with Christ is destroyed by the fall of a perfect stranger, something is very wrong. On the other hand, when you're lied to and betrayed, no matter on what level, it makes you wonder what other teachers you watch/hear have been lying to you, and for how long?
@Yesica1993 I get that. I have been lied to my whole life about history, life, faith, etc. I have started to question everything. In fact, my phrase has become, I trust Jesus and His Word and everyone else gets the side eye.
The problem is too many people have placed their faith in man. God is faithful even when man fails. I agree that failure and betrayal can make us question things, but we must continue to fix our eyes on Christ the Author and Finisher of our faith, as we follow men as they follow Christ.
Longwinded way to say that I agree with you in part, but even when those closest to us betray us, we should grieve, but our faith should not be shaken because they are not our Savior...
Thank you for sharing…..I needed to hear that word, as someone who has suffered deeply by the betrayal of others too.
John, what you just said about your take on Steve's preaching and persona is amazing. I have been listening to you for at least 4 years with great benefit. I felt the same thing you described but I just couldn't articulate it for friends who adored Lawson. Good on you. For the record I am retired from 38 years of pastoral ministry and expository preaching in Pennsylvania.
Same here. He visited our church a few times, and people would always rave about it. The excessive gesticulating and hyper-polished presentation was distracting to me. He was not a person I ever tuned into to hear a sermon.
Same here! Excellent video and article!
This is one of your best podcasts. Your article was excellent.
God Bless and thank you.
Becoming overly confident that we can’t fall could happen to any of us. Peter is a perfect example. He was around the best teaching. The best seminary. Directly under the teaching of Christ. He denied Christ. Could happen to any of us. Must be guarded daily. Praying for Mr. Lawson and his family. Praying he repents. ❤
Good stuff Jon. I see some of the things you see in the future of evangelical leadership. As an SBC pastor I look at what has happened in the SBC since Adrian Rogers and a few others have passed. The next generation of leaders have failed us tremendously, many have gone woke and leftist. There is such a need for godly men to arise and so many have fallen and comprised. God help us to walk holy and stay pure.
Be that man to your church and family, brother.
Be willing to be one of those men to arise to your state convention and your denomination.
I don't think Steve's issue was his views on social justice but rather pride from all the fan worship he received.
When I was at the Ligonier conference in Belfast the adulation tbat Steve Lawson accepted was unbelievable. He shouldn't have allowed it. One young man had flown from the USA to hear him in Belfast. What is worse is that Sinclair Ferguson made a joke about it.
Pastors should stay in their local church and serve it rather than flying all over the world. That way they can care for their marriages and focus on their congregations which is what they are called to.
I think the point that Jon was making about Steve Lawson being amenable to the woke penetration of the church was not that this was the cause of his downfall but rather it was evidence that he was not the spiritual great man that people wanted to believe that he was. It didn't hit Jon as hard as it hit a lot of people because Jon was just not that impressed.
The level of admiration for John McArthur is concerning and astounding to me.
Rosaria Butterfield discussed a similar idea- That we have to crucify the sinful desire while it’s still small. While it’s still a fleeting thought. I think she quotes James1:15…
For a man who spoke for an hour, you clearly showed a passion and dedication to truth. Thank you
He admitted this at the same time as he was promoting his Preaching Academy. If he was intending to come clean, he wouldn't have done that, knowing that it would tank. His last Sermon before his confession included a random statement to not judge a man by one hiccup but by his whole ministry. He knew ahead of time. It looks like he was caught and tried to save face.
I am new to reformed theology and came from a AOG or charismatic belief background. I was greatly disillusioned when the pastor and wife of my former church fell into sexual sin. I was so immature in many ways as a person and in my faith although I was saved at a very young age I was not discipled or taught correct theology / doctrine. So although this situation with SL is very sad, it has hit me much differently than my former pastor as well as the other charismatic high-profile leaders / celebrity pastors. I did not know SL that well, but I really did look up to him with respect. I think God is teaching me a lesson here. Somehow I thought that in the reformed group where I thought the theology was better hence more Biblical the common denominator is that we are all sinners...(don't stop there) SAVED by grace. We are all capable of falling into sin. I wish I could encourage some of you that are taking this really hard. It's ok to feel what you are feeling. I was there believe me. I would also want to say that of course those closet to SL - his family are experiencing this in the grips of devastation - soul sucking life draining utter devastation. I have been through something like that (though not like this is a public way!) I put my hope in man (mankind). Being weened off of that is so very very hard. It's lonely.
Along with Steve's wife and family, I can't imagine what a personal wound this is to John MacArthur as he is close to his departure.
Have you heard anything on JM? I've been looking but haven't seen anything.
!!!
What in the blazes is going on with that man? The YT channel keeps posting old audio messages, multiple at a time. It's freaking me out. I've checked the GTY site and if there's anything there, I am blind and missed it. I've been locked out of Twitter for 2 years, so if anything is there, I can't view it. The GTY Facebook page has nothing. At least that I can view publicly.
I'm not saying we need to hear every detail. Of course he deserves some level of privacy. But he's also a very public person and very beloved. If things are bad, why aren't they preparing us? Even just saying, "He's in the hospital and we don't know a lot of detail" would be better than nothing. I don't want to wake up to headlines that he's gone! Ugh, I hate this.
@@loiscarteaux9389 It's driving me crazy!
Dr MacArthur had an another medical procedure on Tuesday so we need to remember to pray for him. As devastated as we were to hear this news, it’s especially heartbreaking to think of John MacArthur’s plight this week.
The “guardrails” seemed impenetrable so maybe we didn’t pray as we should have.
😢
Im Chatolic and I will pray a rosary today for btother in Christ dr John Mc Arthur ,for his conversion
I entered pastoral ministry in 1998. I have sat in pastor's fellowships, and also worked as a law enforcement officer - meaning I have had more than just a passing glance into the home lives of many Christians. I do not know one pastor, not one, who doesn't have some type of stumbling in his background. If you have the illusion that your elders are pure as the wind driven snow, that may be hard to accept. God uses fragile people with feet of clay so He alone gets the glory.
Stumbling? Meaning what exactly?
@@mimisides Stumbling is a new testament word which describes a believer falling into sin of any type.
God uses our sin…often…to show us how venerable and weak to sin we really are! Sin like Pastor Lawsons is devastating… but God can use it to strip him of all pride and any haughtiness and humble him…and hopefully cause him to truly repent…and live in greater humility and dependence on Christ! Or if there is no true work of the Spirit…he may go on in unrepentance and eventually fall away! Only God knows someone’s true heart condition!😢
@@lorrainethomas4736 So true that only God knows the heart. We should also remember that we do not know what "inappropriate" means. I am thinking that the elders would have just said the word adultery if that is what happened. So perhaps this is a much different situation, that as they said, was just not appropriate, but not completely disqualifying to ministry. I am not going to believe Pastor Lawson was being deliberately hypocritical unless I have very specific and credible information to verify that is the case. Maybe he was just getting to emotionally close with someone he worked with in ministry, and this led to a momentary display of affection that crossed boundaries. Maybe he had an affair while a youth pastor 30 years ago and felt he needed to come clean but learned his lesson and never did that again. There are lots of 'maybes' in this, so I am going to proceed with grace and caution and believe the best about Pastor Lawson until I know different. And unless this somehow becomes my business, which I doubt, I will never know the facts. I am ok with that.
I agree. Yet ask seriously...is there not one on whom I can depend to be faithful? If one is unfaithful is there not grounds for divorce? Or must we suffer continuously at the hands of unfaithful men?
I will not be the judge of Steve Lawson. I do believe that he can be forgiven by God. However, I also believe he has thrown away the gift of God to preach from a pulpit. This sin disqualifies any Elder from an Elders role forever.
Ok that's judging though. Maybe specify you don't think you can throw him into hell. But none of us thought you could anyway
@cosmictreason2242 You're incorrect that I'm "judging" him. Scripture has already judged him through the books of Paul to Timothy and Titus.
@@timothykennedy6804 judge with righteous judgment, is it not those within the church you are to judge, etc
As far as I know, we don't even know what happened, and therefore, we don't know that what he has done was biblically sinful.
@@cosmictreason2242on the contrary. “For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Are you not to judge those who are within the church?”
(1 Corinthians 5:12 LSB)
Read your Bible before making such unbiblical claims.
Lawson was very accessible at his preaching conference.
He didn't hide out during the breaks.
He spent time with everyone throughout the 3 days of the conference.
He seemed very genuine and engaged with everyone.
Very saddened by this😢.
But the same merciful Jesus is his and ours today just as it was yesterday. ✝️
Praise his holy name!
Aaand he sold lots of books.
How much money did Paul make writing half the NT? Oh, yeah, he went to a cross.
Apparently he was even more accessible if you happen to be a hot woman.
James White on his podcast characterized Lawson as a green room guy
@@conceptualclarity Can you explain what a "green room guy" is? I have never heard of this term.
@@barryallen119 I would suggest listening to the beginning of the James White video where he says his piece on Lawson
Steve Lawson is a true to the Bible preacher. I pray God will help him and his family
Thank you John for your response to this situation. I’m grieving for Steven Lawson and his family, for his church, and for the kingdom of Christ. This is so damaging and heartbreaking. But as serious and sad as all this is, the gates of hell will not prevail against the Church. How we finish our race is so much more important than how we start our race.
I don't think you can compare the Alistair Begg situation with what Steve Lawson did. Begg never did a sexual act nor did he even support LGBT acts, he instead had a different belief on if a grandmother should attend a grandchild's wedding. I totally disagree with Begg but people attacked him and many even said he wasn't a Christian. Lawson has done what sounds like a grave sin. I think you took a cheap shot at Begg by lumping him in with Lawson, which could make someone unfamiliar with the situation think that Begg did a sexual sin.
Alistair's sermons are filled with humility and acknowledgement of his own weakness. No showmanship in his sermons but a pointing away from himself to his lord and Savior. ... But he does ramble around a bit! 😂 Hahahaha.
He is stepping down as a pastor in a year; I'm thankful his sermons are available to download.
@@Mike-ny6sf Yes! I agree!
He didn't say or really even imply that Begg committed sexual sin. He categorized separately "theological errors" and "moral failures." The comparison was not the type of sin. It was the beginning of the development of the other idea about SL not standing up to the woke stuff when he had the opportunity.
2:07
I don't claim to know Steve Lawson's heart or the specifics of his situation. But I can't say I'm astonished. This leads me to wonder why that is. If John MacArthur were involved in something like this, I would be shocked. So why am I not as taken aback when it comes to Steve Lawson, Alistair Begg, or others who have succumbed to serious theological errors or or moral failures?
@@Yesica1993 It is implied that he was connecting Lawson and Begg because they were in the same paragraph. If he wasn't connecting them then there was no reason to bring up Begg.
@@srice6231 I already explained it. But you choose to keep on with the same thing. Fine. I won't waste my time.
This is heartbreaking. My husband and I loved listening to Steve Lawson while we were new converts. So sad.
Prayers for his recovery, his wife and for God’s will in their family.
Nothing new under the sun. How utterly sad and disappointing to fall from grace and compromise the integrity of your ministry over this act at 73. Pray for the Lawson family. I pray there can be repentance and restoration.
I believe Steve Lawson can serve the Lord. Maybe teach at a college. I don't believe he should be an elder, deacon, or pastor. Paul speaks of being disqualified. That doesn't mean he isn't saved. May God be with his family as they walk through this situation.
Lawson should remove himself from polite society. Shameful beyond measure
@@wanda520I’ve seen your hateful comments in several different videos. It is so obvious that you are a mean woman who likely was cheated on and hasn’t gotten over it. Seriously, you’re sounding like you’re his wife and he cheated on you. I’m sure you’re the standard of holy character in your local church that everyone looks up to lol
He should now humbly retire, should’ve done so some years ago
Maybe a secular college. We certainly don't want fallen men leading young believers at Christian colleges.
@@eurekahope5310and yet we read psalm 51 all the time. All men are fallen. It’s repentance that we look for in the believer who sins. If Steve is truly repentant (godly remorse vs worldly sorrow), the Lord can still use him, not as a pastor but certainly to warn young men at minimum of the dangers of fame and pride.
Some of us brother are very grateful for you in keeping things real. Good job on helping us think through this.
Great article John…well thought out and truly addressing what many of us have been thinking but couldn’t quite put into words! Celebrity culture ALWAYS carries a dark side no matter what the program. ThankYOU for the work you do in addressing these tough and sensitive issues that seem to be unending these days. I for one am glad you have kept your distance from BIG EVA!The Lord is truly using you right where you are. God bless you and your family!
I don’t understand why his teaching has been purged from the various platforms. That teacher was wonderful and his sin should not erase the good he has taught.
Probably due to the negative images associated with featuring his sermons. For now, it's better to suppress while the issue is hot. Being a good teacher does not mean, his teachings stay up. The bible is clear that it's not just teaching but the character of elders.
The message is what matters.
@@chuckyspell That's not what the Bible says.
Those without sin cast the first stone.
@@sharimacfee7820 Please stop misapplying that verse. It's a grave sin to misinterpret the word of God.
This is what happens in the institutionalized, corporate worship centers, people call church. Men are exalted rather than Christ. Men like Lawson represents the exact same religious system Jesus came to abolish.
I agree with you Jon. It’s many little things being let in and tolerated over time. Death by a thousand small cuts.
Influential, not low on the totem pole, someone more respected, someone higher up in our Evangelical circles etc etc. These are phrases I'm hearing about Steve Lawson. Body of Christ, please think about this. Pride comes before destruction and a haughty spirit before a fall. Not only that, but we are putting certain people on pedestals, that should never be! We are ALL fallible. No one should be put above another. When the "so called" mighty fall, people loose faith in Christ Yeshua-Jesus.. ??? We have got to worship God alone. Pray for those leaders who have fallen and never forget, but for the Grace of God- - -...
This is crushing for me.
I went to his institute of expository preaching in 2019.💔
We must pray for him to be restored, not to being a pastor, but simply restored to Jesus.
@@SaltAndGracePoetry yes.
Very 😔 sad.
What really bothers me is Lawson calling out others while doing the very thing he was condemning others for, the hypocrisy. The other sin is pride. He acted as though he was not susceptible to sin -pride.
Thank you for this. My rebirth came from the teachings of these reformed teachers but not totally as it was praying and seeking our Lord that led to the transformation. Your article is well thought and kind. I agree, many in the reformed circle are very “rational” almost like the religious leaders in Jesus day and those who are similar enjoy their ministry. Sadly, while it’s taken in literally, it’s not lived out practically. I have been in churches that teach well but interactions with leaders and elders led me to feel cold and disappointed in the body of Christ. I thank God for not letting me go, for leading me into His grace and love, teaching me, gently rebuking me of my sinful thoughts and ways. I struggle with sin and sometimes choose sin and I know it’s wanton disobedience to my Lord. Yet, each repentance has led me to experience God’s mercy. Like you said, don’t look to men…look to Lord and be sensitive to the Holy Spirit in us…He speaks loudly but often times He whispers but one thing for sure, the word of God is spoken to us…it’s the sinful “flesh” that struggles to obey. I want to be merciful towards men who have fallen to the temptation of pride but it’s only human to be sad and disappointed with men. While I wait for Jesus to return or when I go to Him, I will continue to struggle with my sinful thoughts, my selfish motivations and prideful desires but am reminded that Lord Jesus died for all of this and for me to forget that is …😔😮my eternity in damnation has been taken away when my Lord was resurrected…that it’s joy beyond comprehension. My hope is in Christ…and not in the world I live in…have a blessed day.
Amen. I came into being reformed with the help of JMac and Lawson. My faith and obedience has grown with this view of the scriptures. Ultimately God is in control and we should look to Him only and not mankind.
Keep on praying and seeking our Father in His Word. 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
My heart is broken for Steve and his family. I have learned so much from him over the past few years and I am so thankful for his wisdom and sound teaching. My family will be praying for him and all the wonderful ministries he was with.✝️🙏🙏🙏
Personally, I think he was forced to reveal this inappropriate relationship because this is a ----David situation .
He wasn't my favorite pastors I could take him or leave him .
I thought he was arrogant, and he came off to me as being prideful.
Very interesting analysis . Thank you
🎯🎯🎯
I’ve heard more ppl mentioning now how arrogant he was. He never struck me as arrogant but then again, i didn’t expose myself to him religiously to make a wise assessment of his attitude. However, i have the same feeling as you - he was forced to come forward. It would be nice to hear that he did come forward out of sincere remorse but time will tell.
@@InPotatoITrust" FORCE TO COME FOTRWARD " did you also post your feelings to everyone like me who mention that he was arrogant? so" I'm arrogant" because I have a decerning spirit? and knew he was in it for himself. like your stupid post. to me . we don't even know what happen , they are covering it up, I hope the cover up is for his poor family especially his wife.
@@ritaschultz6859- can you explain to me what you read in my comment that made you assume i was calling you arrogant or where i even stated that you were arrogant because of a discerning spirit? Goodness. I thought you were replying back to another person because your response didn’t make sense to me. I said i had the same feeling you did when you stated he was probably forced to come forward. An anonymous source from his congregation has said that our intuition is correct - he was caught, which is why he came forward. And just to clarify again - i never made any mention of you being arrogant. I stated i never saw Steven as arrogant but that because i didn’t really watch too many of his sermons, maybe that’s why i never got a whiff of his arrogance. I also stated that you are not the only one whom has mentioned his arrogance. Jon here and many other ppl have shared how Steven came off as incredibly arrogant, and to hear that raises concerns for me because a prideful spirit always comes first before the fall. It’s troubling how he never was held accountable for that.
I’m actually quite glad he was fired and held accountable but feel for his wife, family, congregation, and others who’d been previously blessed by his teachings
@InPotatoITrust I'm sorry I did miss read your post . Will you accept my apology please 🌹
Put no trust in men! That's the lesson here.
Why are people asking, at this point, whether Lawson can be restored? No wonder the Church is in a mess.
Amen.
Do you think there may need to be a definition of what each person means by restored? That might make a big difference. Restored in relationship to Christ? Yes. In relationship to his family? Of course it is *possible*. Restored to position of pastor? Do we see that in Scripture anywhere? David was a king, not a priest. He could not offer sacrifices.
@@Cindi-hj3oqi think a lot of ppl are using the word without clarification for sure. Seeing ppl immediately talking about restoration is a bit concerning because in order for there to be restoration, the guilty party must first humbly acknowledge their wrong. You can’t restore someone who has been living in deception and has shown an unrepentant spirit. The fact that ppl are sharing how he was in an adulterous affair for a few years and was discovered and exposed by another person before he came forward is why talking about restoration first is unwise. If you don’t allow ppl to really reflect on their sins and the consequences it’s brought, and immediately try to bring them back into the fold, they may think their sin wasn’t so bad after all. I hope when ppl do mention restoration tho that they’re ultimately talking about being restored into community if and when he humbly repents. Sadly, he has permanently disqualified himself as a pastor for this act of sin
@@InPotatoITrust yesssss. 🙏
“Are they going to reprint the study bible?” So because he fell everything he ever did and said is no false? Really? So every good, right and true thing from David’s life was deemed false after his sin? There seems to be a problem with this line of thinking. Further, do we discount any and everything thing he does and says going forward? Presuming he truly repents..
This.
There is a TON we don't know about David's life after his affair and murderous actions. What we DO know from Scripture is that he did not confess or repent until confronted by God's prophet. We also know that the fallout of his one-night stand (was it rape? We never know what Bathsheba said/did, and in the context of her husband being in battle, a summons to the king (his friend) would have been scary) ended with more rape and his son trying to murder him and his closest advisor turning against him. The internet creates income for people, and selling someone's work is often tantamount to promoting someone. God preserved the Psalms. Each ministry will decide what they need to do. Some will be for God's glory. Some may be for self preservation. We will see if God preserves any of this man's work. The most disturbing thing Lawson said in his last sermon is that a man shouldn't be judged by a "hiccup." That does not look like nor sound like Biblical repentance, and it doesn't look like Scripture's revealed account of David's repentance at all.
@@Cindi-hj3oq as I said, Cindi, assuming he truly repents. To say the good and true things he has said or may say in the future are completely useless, well, that’s just false. We KNOW that God used David after his repentance! If there’s no hope of ever being useful to God again, what hope has anyone who fails? All I’m saying is, the American church has to stop burying our own wounded. It’s ridiculous! And I’m not even a fan of Lawson, never heard him preach. But, I don’t think his failure somehow changes the truth or usefulness of his past or potential future work. Can he be an elder again? No! He will have to serve in another capacity
@@kevinlott5228 disagreeing or refusing to financially promote him is not burying our own wounded. Lots of people need some time to 1. Figure out what is REALLY happening vs what is flying all over the internet at the moment, and 2. Do they choose to or not to financially promote his work. Everyone keeps talking about David, but that is comparing apples and chalk. There was no internet or even books back then. David wasn't profiting off the sales of his Psalms. Is it not a little premature to knock those who are trying to figure out what they should do when they aren't even sure they have the facts yet? Steve has not written Scripture, and God is not limited to using his past or future thoughts. Repentance and restoration (to family and church as appropriate as well as to anyone else involved) are ALWAYS the goals. Choosing not to sell his books is not burying him. To whom much is given, MUCH is required. It is a solemn and somewhat terrifying reality. No one would be sinning to choose not to sell his books.
A hiccup is not a full blown physical affair. Steven had a hiccup and he will clarify the hiccup in due time. He clearly did not believe his hiccup was serious enough to lose his ministry so it may be that it was not
I don’t think this an issue for any denomination or a particular stream of Christianity, it is simply a battle with our greatest foe our battle against the sin of our flesh , the problem with our sinful desires . It does matter who you are or how long you have been a Christian, any of us at anytime can give into our desire to sin. We need to preach the Gospel to ourselves continuously and remember what we all really deserve!
Agree. It is a battle for every man and a fair number of women, Christian, pagan, religious, agnostic ... human. OUR hearts are deceitful and wicked. And the devil is a roaring lion seeking to destroy everyone he can. Staying in prayer, in repentance, and in the Bible is so necessary. Every day.
After Jim Bakker got out of prison he summed up the mistakes he made in one statement. He said, it's wrong when our work for God becomes more important than God!
It is hard to find a reformed church where I moved. I was fed by Dr. Lawson's teaching. It makes me sad to see that Dr. Lawson has fallen into sexual sin. I guess it is vital to not put anyone on a pedestal. But, Satan prowls around like a roaring lion. So important to be humble and careful. May God have mercy.🤔🙏🙏
This sucks so hard. Thank you for your coverage. I had no idea that Lawson did not sign the Dallas agreement. This changes things for me.
Sadly I don't think a lot of the conference circuit types did sign the Dallas Statement.😦
@@conceptualclarity in the conferences he goes to, they do!
Thank you, Jon, for this discussion. I have not been a longtime “fan” of Steve Lawson. My only acquaintance with him was that I watched the UA-cam videos of what I think was the most recent Shepherds Conference. I have to say that of the several speakers I listened to (excluding John MacArthur) Mr. Lawson was the one that stood out to me. No doubt he is a gifted communicator. It’s shocking and sad to hear of his grievous moral failure. I feel for his wife and family, as well as his church and ministry family. You mentioned the “Billy Graham rule”. Though there was never a hint of such a moral failure on Mr. Graham’s part, apparently his family did pay a heavy price for his many, sometimes extended, absences from home and family. The dangers involved with being a celebrity pastor are real and many, especially with the relative ease of travel and communication these days. No doubt there is some house cleaning going on in the house of God. I pray Mr. Lawson will truly repent and experience forgiveness and the restoration of fellowship, though I agree with you that he should not be returned to the pulpit or other leadership position in the church. There is much work to do and he could certainly find a place of service.
In Psalm 51..David said, “against You, oh God, and You alone have I sinned.” A celeb pastor,,,or our husband or neighbor, hurts all who love and admire him when he chooses adultery. We don’t “ fall into sin”. We walk straight into it when we choose to follow our own desires over our relationship with God and our precious families. People can forgive the sin , but may never recover from the broken trust.
@@Ruby-wise they can forgive the sin but there are devastating consequences, unfortunately, especially on this level.
My husband used Psalm 51 to say he didn't sin against any person.
@@CM-sy3to and that would be a perfect example of taking Scripture out of context. Just because someone/any of us does that doesn't validate what they say or have done.
I benefited much from Lawson's preaching, but I remember questioning why he left his pastorate in Mobile, Alabama. I don't think Lawson exemplified that shepherding, pastoral heart like a faithful local pastor. Gifted preacher, strong theology, but how could he allow himself to not be above reproach? I won't understand until he makes public comments.
I am deeply disappointed but not surprised because of what Jesus told us about the great Falling Away on past the sea which would happen before he returned
@@nancycochrane1331 yes! And because iniquity would abound, the love of many will grow cold. 😕
Very good Jon,
I can speak from experience, while attending the G3 National Conference last year one of the security guards associated with G3 states that Lawson has the most requests/demands for green rooms. And that he refuses to associate outside of the green room, unlike other speakers who I was able to meet because they walked around and met people willing. It’s heartbreaking, but Lawson created this persona and no one within the reformed community called him out for it.
Thank you for your comment. James White in his podcast corroborated that Steve Lawson was quite a green room guy.
Maybe he just likes the color green.
Thank you for sharing. Speaking from experience, i know adultery is not something that happens by mistake. Ppl being so quick to defend & believe the best of him seem to have a pretty naive understanding on how adultery manifests itself. There are deliberate choices ppl make until they finally fall. It’s a series of small compromises that lead to catastrophe. Ultimately the hope is that he did come forward from deep remorse and shame & that he is taking the steps to prove he’s truly repentant. Even so, the consequences must take place. And if they’re harsh, they’re deserved & ppl need to stop trying to lessen the blow.
This happened with David Hocking (The Biola Hour) 30 years ago or so. His ministry was never the same. At least with Lawson, hopefully it was not comparable to what happened with Ravi Zacharias, who never ostensibly repented, and used his position to create a terrible legacy of carnage.
It was incredibly sad that Ravi never repented, even on his death bed. That speaks volumes.
Steven Lawson's sermon last Sunday 9/15 is important to listen to as he seems to he warning people about himself!
I listened to it after all of this came out. Did it strike you as manipulative? Ive always appreciated his teaching - SO much - this bring such grief to my heart. If all this was going on behind the scenes, that sermon just seems, icky to me
You’re one of the few people I listen to for a more balanced take on issues like these. I pray God will continue to use you to share your discernment in edifying/ informing the body of Christ.
you make a very interesting point on courage; I recall writing to one passion ministries on 3 separate occasions in 2020 to ask what their position was on social justice and why Dr Lawson hadn't signed the Dallas Statement, and never received a reply, not one, I wonder if I would have received a reply if I wanted to donate? :P anyway, that point grabbed my attention, it also is interesting to see how pastors reacted during the covid chaos and whether they took a stand in the face of tyranny, despite being correct theologically, J Mac said he was ready to go to prison if that was the consequence of opening the church when mandated not too..
I do not know the man personally, nor do I listen to much of his preaching. The only thing I can say; it is heart wretching to see a man of God be brought down by this sin in a manner that nullifies everything he has down before now. The sin, transgression and iniquity against our Holy God is what many of us must remember and not think we are without our own sin. How this will continue is not one that will be pleasant and it has not only destroyed this man's witness but has created a chasm within his family as well. May he see the mercy, grace and forgiveness of our LORD Jesus Christ and that in his remaining days have peace.
Jon, appreciated your take(s) on this situation. You said some things that I'm sure were rejected by some, but it's good to try and see the bigger picture also. We've heard much about Big Eva in the last few years, but there is also a Big Guild. I don't think anyone intentionally wanted it to be that way, but it happened. If you look at all of the major conferences it's always speakers from a certain set of guys. Lesser known men, yet perhaps just as solid, or even more so, don't get invited, and that's ok. I think it's possible for people to live in a fish bowl, rather than a large lake, and not realize it. Then things like this happen. I hope this is a wake up call for the church.
Also, three men from our church went to a one-day conference by Lawson on Sept. 10, which may be the last conference he ever spoke at. I know our men have to be devastated, or at least very disappointed. I feel for all whom this has affected.
Best response to these kinds of situations I've ever heard. Thank you!
Thanks again Jon for your insights into this sad news. Praying for your Men's Retreat coming up soon. Blessings
When we see these situations from a distance, may God grant us to be The Publican rather than The Pharisee. Rather than thanking God that we are not like that adulterer, we bow our heads, best our breasts and cry out to God to have mercy on ME, The Sinner!
This certainly could not have happened overnight. Shocking that leaders of such reputation who are supposed to be close to each other couldn't have spotted it. I wonder what is the maturity of their discernment. Heb 8.
It seems you comment is suggesting his colleagues should have known, and because they did not, their discernment needs to be called into question. I would counter-offer that our secret sins can be so well hidden that if discovered, it shocks, disappoints and breaks the hearts of those who THOUGHT they knew us well. Your comment raises suspicion. Would you say the same for his wife? Seems to me they are all victims of his deceit.
@@lauranewcomer170 I won't be least surprised if they were aware of such misconduct And either simply warned him And turned a blind eye. Should we believe that they were such close friends for so many years And never shared any accountability about their personal lives And didn't have a clue?? And above all his wife who lived with him 24x7? These things don't happen overnight. Come on!!, that's being to naive. I've been in such setup And m aware of such things. Sorry, I won't be fooled so easily. This reminds me of another And many such incidents specially Ravi Z.
Members of a church cannot restore a Pastor. The Pastor has to do the facing of the truth and the repenting, which takes time. The pastor has to walk it out to prove he has truly repented. People have to see it.
Yes & amen!!!
Keep doing what you’re doing Jon! There’s nothing like your podcast!
Thanks for your helpful thoughts here. The Lord used Steve Lawson to help me greatly in my ministry in general and my preaching in particular. So I'm deeply grieved, but not shaken in my faith. I do believe there are things to learn about this tragic incident. None of us are exempt from temptation. No one is too mature, too strong, too Biblically grounded, to fail.
Pride comes before a fall 😔😔
Crazy what you can find on the internet. As soon as i heard this I started digging. I found Steve's house. His daughter's house (less than four miles apart in Dallas). Steve had a really nice house and a really nice life. Even found his salary from 2021. Then he made 150k his wife was paid 30k from the ministry and his daughter was paid over 90k from the ministry. Wonder what will happen to that ministry? Steve will not get a job at Home Depot. He is old enough to collect social security and I'm sure his bank account is fine. His daughter may not be able to replace her salary. Thanks, Dad.
You wonder why an old guy would throw it all away like that. To quote R Zachariah: Sin will take you farther than you want to go, keep you longer than you wanted to stay and cost you more than you want to pay. 😢
Ravi was also found to have inappropriate relationships as well.
@@Cantfindabettername I think that’s why I chose it but thanks for pointing out the obvious. God bless you.
@@Cantfindabettername Ravi was unrepentant to the bitter end of his life. One of the saddest things I have ever seen.
As a new believer in early 90s, I was shocked when I learned some minister sitting under scripture for decades in Chuck Swindoll’s church could abuse little girls his daughter had sleepovers. I quickly prayed that I would respond quickly to conviction of sin and obey Why? Because it’s toooo easy to get hardened to the Spirit conviction… God has answered that prayer (quick to respond)
It’s so funny that you mention cufflinks. Because that is one thing that always stood out to me about Lawson, Mohler, and other speakers at large conferences. And the stark contrast between their style, and the subdued humble style of RC Sproul. He was always the headliner, but his suits were always simple, not flashy, regular button cuffs. You could imagine he bought them off the rack at JCPenney. I’m not making some moral judgment on that but it’s funny that you mention that because I noticed the exact same thing.
Steve will remain my favourite preacher.
I truly appreciate you taking the time to dive into this topic rather than tiptoeing around it and making passive remarks about Steven and his fall from grace, his sin, & the consequences that will follow.
I’ve been incredibly disappointed with the reformed community for their passive way of looking at Steven’s sin. Too many are quickly sweeping his sin under the rug under the pretense of wanting to extend Grace & mercy because “all the Bible greats committed sins too.” I’ve seen a mishandling of multiple verses. From ppl stating David sinned and God forgave & restored him (while leaving out the part that David was exposed by the prophet Nathan because David had concealed his sin, & that he faced terrible consequences which the Lord allowed for the remainder of his life) to ppl mentioning how Christ restored Peter after he’d denied him (while forgetting that Peter’s situation didn’t include a sexual sin).
The other thing that’s concerned me is how ppl are being quick to assume that Steven is just like David. I think this belief is mostly rooted in idolatry rather than wise discernment. We want to assume the best of Steven because, as someone put it, good theology covers a multitude of sins. We’ve seen his clean cut, perfect suit & tie, great theology preaching persona, & videos of him challenging pastors like Joel Osteen with sermons like “give us men who KNOW the truth” & we assume the integrity is already there. People are quick to believe that his coming forward and confessing this adulterous affair is a sign of genuine heart felt repentance. However, they’re not taking into account that we don’t know how long this affair was going on for or if he was forced to come forward due to threats of black mail or because someone caught him. We would NOT show this much grace to someone like Joel Osteen or any other charismatic preacher if they were caught in the exact same situation because, as you said, we expect ppl with poor theology to have a poor attitude towards sin.
As someone who has greatly admired Steven, has gone to one of his lectures, met & spoke with him, & have enjoyed his sermons, this news wasn’t shocking to me, but it was still incredibly disappointing. While I’m not familiar with the congregation he’s been a part of & don’t know if the elders suspected anything but said nothing until now because things were about to blow up or not, I’m very happy with the way things have been handled. I’m happy he was removed from all websites and speaking engagements. I’m glad he was fired. People are saying this response was too harsh but i believe it was absolutely necessary. When you’re in this kind of position, you need to use even more caution and discernment. People saying “he’s human; he made a mistake” don’t understand that these incidents don’t happen by accident. You don’t find yourself in an adulterous affair by mistake. It’s a series of small bad choices that lead to bigger sins. And folks who immediately start using David or other biblical figures as an excuse fail to realize that these Bible heroes suffered immensely because of their sins which the Lord permitted. What Steven is experiencing now is simply the consequences of his own actions & ppl need to stop trying to control the outcome because they like his style of preaching.
What really tickles me however is that id seen a video of Steve speaking to a group of men (this was from a few years ago) and in this meeting, he spoke to the young men about the importance of purity & the consequences that sexual sin can lead to for a man in a position of leadership. Ironically, he listed almost all the things he is now experiencing for, as he put it, 15 seconds of pleasure.
My sincere hope is that he did come forward out of remorse (altho i have this dreaded feeling this wasn’t the case) and that he is taking the steps to show just how repentant he truly is. I hope in time if he’s truly repentant that he may be able to rejoin believers in community. I’m praying for his wife because i can’t imagine the shame, hurt, humiliation, and confusion she must be experiencing.
Brother Harris, as what you would consider an arminian (an oldfashioned methodist of the John Wesley kind) you restored for a part my trust in my reformed brothers in the faith. I don't deem reformed christians as heretics like reformed christians tend to do with arminians. But I was often repelled by the proud attitude of calvinists. "They were the true intellectuals, the true theologians. You must be very stupid if you differ from the five points of calvinism." I saw some self reflection in your words. I know the orthodox calvinistic world in the Netherlands and there is very little reality and spiritual power. There were thousands of reformed christians in the small town of 30.000 people where I lived. I grow up without any knowledge of the bible or the gospel. Nobody of all those calvinistic christians in my hometown ever spoke to me about Christ. None. Never. God used the brothers of a small evangelical, non calvinistic baptist church to reach me. And there was spiritual power. I remember that once the pastor was asked to visit the local police station. They asked him what he was doing with people. Because they had a steady stream of people who reported that stolen goods had been returned. Converted people began to confess their thefts to people they stole from. Returned the goods, payed interest, asked for forgiveness, gave their testimony. The police heard about this, and the name of the pastor was mentioned.
"But I will come to you shortly, if the Lord will, and will know, not the speech of them which are puffed up, but the power. For the kingdom of God is not in word, but in power." (1 Corintians 4:19-20). Gods power was with this pastor who preached an unlimited atonement, who never mentioned irresistible grace, who proclaimed that God loved the world, meaning all people, who preached the holiness of god as well and the need to repent.
So you’re responsible for your own salvation ?
What a burden to carry throughout life 😢
I am so grateful that our Heavenly Father has used an incredible amount of people in various levels of spiritual growth to teach me about Himself.
Fantastic job on this. I have to admit I was shocked. I was fooled into thinking SL was solid. If I knew that he was rubbing shoulders with "woke" authors, I would have marked and avoided him. I think one of the biggest failures of our church leaders is their reluctance to mark and avoid. The Bible tells us to mark and avoid, period. Not just if it's convenient or easy. I don't like to put anyone on blast either, but the Bible says...
This is a huge problem in today's church.
Thank you from Australia for such a balanced point of view. I saw Russell on his knees praying at the Tucker event. He ( like me) has come through the twelve step fellowship which has a simple connection for many of us to be drawn to our knees, broken and open to the redeeming power of Jesus. I was moved to tears watching that and agree that God will use the most unlikely people to bring restoration to His world where sadly the mainstream Church has failed. Bless you. Richard Newnham.
I had to turn this off. This show turned into what I thought it would; "I never liked the guy and I knew all along...." Of course you didn't say those words but one only has to read between the lines. People are devastated because they couldn't anticipate it coming from him. He is very sound doctrinally but what occured could never have been anticipated by anyone.
Lawson talked about how uncomfortable he was with mingling. So just because he wasn't as engaging with people at various conferences doesn't mean anything other than he may be an introvert. It really shouldn't be used to attack someones salvation.
Please don’t take offense, I find the choice to discuss personal impressions of Lawson kind of tacky. Has a whiff of tabloid to it. What I take from his sudden withdrawal, is that he is human. And out of the heart of men, even the Lawsons, comes wickedness. None of us are immune. I’m not saying he be restored like that hyper-charismatic tribe of Bill Johnson did with Todd Bentley. This pretty much disqualifies him from Ministry. but I’m going to do a self-check and make sure I take this sad situation to heart.
The entire Bible tells us that we are all sinners until we are resurrected. Rom 7 is clear on the battle. Anyone who says they have no sin is a blind lier. There is no excusing gluttony while porn is across a line or hate but murder is over the top. The measure is inside not simply outside. There is no person in any position today that has not sinned today. That is not excusing or justifying but reformed more than most live in hypocritical ways around these things and that itself is sin. David is a great example of a fall, repentance and restoration. The simple fact is that we all must strive to avoid sin, repent of it and help others avoid it, repent and recover as well. Focus on truth, love and walking in the mercy and grace that Christ shows you above judging, posturing, pointing, and dividing and maybe the church will be useful again.
I get angrier by the hour. The damage done is enormous. Selfish behavior beyond measure.
They (big name preachers) are not God. We follow God and not man. Jesus died and rise from the grave. THAT is the foundation of our faith. We are called to test the spirits...
Unfortunately, sin and the flesh do not discriminate between denominations or theological traditions.
It would be so refreshing if the body of Christ would mourn the loss of the work that God began in a fallen Christian instead of talking about how they saw it coming!! People like to figure out how a person fell because of their own pride. They think by figuring this out it will keep them from falling and keep them safe. If God chooses to humble a person through a fall there is not much a person can do. He hands us over to our sin for the salvation of our souls. I would be very careful of calling another brother in Christ arrogant.
About returning to ministry. My question is, did Steve bring this to his elders or did the elders bring it to Steve because they heard it from a third party? Steve coming forward in contrition and saying oh I need to be removed because I have done such and such. Rather than the elders confronting him and saying we have heard such and such, is this so. And Steve replying yes, it is so. Steve, coming forward on his own as an act of contrition. Being discovered, and then acknowledging, it’s not contrition, even though contrition can still come.
An anonymous person from his congregation stated he was caught with a young woman 40 years his junior whom he’d apparently been having an adulterous affair with for a few years now.
Things like this don't happen in a day. It's a process of allowing yourself to play with fire, allowing your boundaries to chip away. Having double standards, pleasing the crowds, money, position, etc. Nobody should become that important in the body of Christ. In a way, all the fallen leaders are a product of those who support them.