I'm not religious at all, but love these lectures, especially to fall asleep to. I was actually shocked to find out he is a pastor, I thought these were university professor lectures for a while!
John was originally a professional historian specializing on (real) Mormon history. You know, the Fawn Brodie stuff. Later he got recruited to join the CoC, then became a pastor. That's why he sounds like a university lecturer. He used to be one.
You're not the only one who.uses them to fall asleep to. But I make sure to wind back to pick up from.the same spot to take it all in. Don't mean any disrespect by it, just helps send me off into another world of imagination!
The mind never sleeps...the "hypnogogic state"...between wakefulness and sleep is an excellent 👌 time to soak in knowledge like a sponge directly into your subconscious mind. In my case I listen to video after video on UA-cam continuously in my "liked video" play list while sleeping at night, listening to videos for literally hours on end...all night long.
Even I'm muslim I like learning about Jesus and his followers bcz we believe he was great prophet of God and thank you for giving us all this information for free❤
I do enjoy John's lectures. I am a lifelong student of History. I'm also an atheist who loves to learn. The Bible is the most important book ever written you can't understand art, literature, or history without having a basic knowledge of it. I just wanted to say thank you but I was really posting because a UA-cam ad popped up right when John was saying if a preacher asks for money they are a false prophet. I am referring to that UA-cam ad for evangelizing in Israel. I am NOT referring to center place. I may be an atheist but I recognized your sincerity I just found the timing funny
The Gospel of Jesus was originally one book, written by Lazarus in consultation with the Apostles (John 21:23-24) and published soon after Jesus left them on their own. Not generations after the facts. Rome hijacked the religion. Broke up the text and scrambled it so as to be a testimony that does not quite altogether agree, ascribed false authorship and a Gnosticism cover story - canonizing books that they themselves caused to be confounded in the first place. And Epistles are counterfeits, especially those attributed to Paul.
I discovered this channel yesterday, and I am already hooked. Very interesting, and you present all of this in a way that makes it easier to grasp than other such lectures I have seen. Thank you, and bless you!
Yet another fascinating lecture. Thank you, John. As an atheist, the meaning I take from the figure Jesus is the continuation of the struggle against oppression, a struggle being played out today. The Jesus story is one of someone who lived in a contested region under foreign rule, and the very human desire to be free of that imposition. There are moments in the Jesus story where he did what he could to just get along with the status quo. Those moments are interspersed with flashes of rage at the combined oppression from Rome as well as the priest classes that ruled in Palestine. It is a fascinating story, overall, and a lot of meaning can be extracted from it when viewed from a historical perspective.
These lectures are fantastic !! They provide both details that other channels provide, while simultaneously giving the greater contextual overview in a very orderly chronology !! This give a very coherent narrative of the topic (bravo!) which is something most academic lecturers leave listeners to do for themselves with the assumption that the listener only is interested in some abstract point that the lecturer is answering (cough Ehrman cough). Regards, An appreciative subscriber.
Thank you so much. What an informative lesson! You'd think that 2000 years of frustrated apocalipses would be enough. But today's 😢version canna actually get us all wiped out.
Hint: _Nobody has Q._ Nobody knows "Q's perspective". Q is wholly a figment of the collective imagination of "NT scholars". (I quote because they have nothing like the standards of real scholars.). The original motivation for Q, an imaginary "independence" of Matthew and Luke authorship, is completely false: we know with certainty that 'Luke' had Matthew in hand. The methods used for constructing Q are intellectually bankrupt, denying authorial agency. Actual authors make choices according to their goals and resources which include, at times, simplifying, at others, elaborating, sometimes omitting what they don't like, others making up whatever they think they need. (Absent authorial agency, who is supposed to have written Q? Where did that person copy it from?) There is no defensible difference betweeen Q and Matthew itself. All work on Q, over many decades, has been a waste of time, effort, and careers, and will be looked back on as a huge embarrassment to the field. The field will, in the end, learn nothing from the experience.
29:03 love these timelines of what we currently know 52:39 1:05:06 1:27:01 1:58:31 I actually like it when you teach and preach the outcomes of state of the art research, rather than just putting the scientific achievements on a pedestal, without telling us what you make of it. It’s like You personally represent the least obnoxious living tradition that incorporates the scientific findings without losing the part of actually still being a religion. It’s one deciding step further from Richard Dawkins calling himself a cultural Christian, and two steps further from Joscha Bach seeing Religion as civilizational OS, bemoaning the loss of „the will of God“ as our inability in the modern day to play the longest games possible, as we no longer have a common view of the future, as the future keeps changing faster than our predictions for it. I love all three approaches, and it would be a loss to the world if even one of those stances would vanish from history. People can (and do) live different truths: some are scientific truths, others are cultural truths, and again others still preserve the original smell of religion without stinking. Most discussions about religion are unbearable to watch for an atheist like me, who still had a traditional Christian upbringing. I‘m with Jordan Peterson, when he doesn’t want to throw the baby out with the bathwater: if we do away with all our religious and cultural heritage, we do so at our own peril. - But we’d also lose connection with the truth, if we ignored all the things we learned scientifically about the origins and transmission, construction, reconstruction and interpretation of the narratives and teachings that have come down to us through the history of religious tradition. Call me out on my cognitive dissonances all you want: I like them. - I love being rigorous when it suits me, and being hand wavy in all cases I haven’t reached the bottom yet. Yes, yes: the lukewarm are damned, but so be it. - I never was a Catholic, but I like their idea of being a happy sinner. 😂 P.S. I guess Jonathan Pageau‘s podcasts with Richard Rohlin on „Universal History“ also deserve a shoutout - even though my overlap with Eastern Orthodoxy is nonexistent, they sure know how to represent an almost lost world view: that the Middle Ages truly saw themselves as a seamless continuation of late Antiquity.: living eternally in the presence of God‘s plan: Don’t worry, the Kingdom of God is well underway. I like that view more than the typical Catholic or Protestant views on attempts to build the Kingdom of God. (I’ll copy and paste a little excursion.)
Excursion on the Kingdom of God (- what I concluded after watching Pageau and Rohlin) Protestantism be like: God gave us a choice. The Kingdom of God in this world is only a tiny seed within our mind. God only has our hands. He manifests in our consciousness and the beliefs in our minds, guiding our will: thus we have to bring on the changes with our own work. We are Atlas, bearing the world on our shoulders. If we stumble or let it slip, the fate of the world will be going to shit in the blink of an eye. We must always be diligent and watchful. This is why transgressions against the Holy Spirit can’t be forgiven. We are on a mission. God is giving us faith and strength to do his will: he wants this world to mirror Heaven, and tasks us with it. Catholicism be like: We are sinners. Keeping the faith for a better world is all we can do. Building Heaven on Earth is by definition not only unreachable, but even a folly (- Tower of Babel). Yes, we shall let our light shine and build cities on the hill to exemplify the ideal of Heaven, but the world itself will always be a valley of death (Jammertal). We look up to the Saints and point to them, who acted exemplary and modeled God’s qualities for us, but we know that they are the exceptions. It’s ok to fail, because that allows God to forgive us and play his part and always lead us back on the path. The promise for the Heavenly Kingdom necessarily lies in the beyond, always has and always will, until He comes in Glory to finish the salvation of all creation. Orthodox Christianity, as Pageau explores it and explains it, be like: God’s Kingdom is manifesting itself in human history. We are little cogs and wheels in God’s big plan. He works in us and through us to the best of our abilities and destinies, but it is he himself that acts and brings his plan to fruition. The History of the World per definition is on track, even when God works in mysterious ways. The path might be stony and overgrown and at times obscured or hard to travel, but God is guiding us along: we might stumble and slip and fall, but God doesn’t. The saving of humanity and the world is well underway. We might not understand it, but we can still trust that it happens, and we all have our roles to play, before God himself finishes the great work. It’s a stark difference: - failing is not an option, we are the chosen ones - vs failing is guaranteed, but all it does, is showing the greater glory of God - vs there is no failure: God works in mysterious ways, our part is to figure it out and play our small roles. It’s like a faith version of the discussions around Steven Pinker’s “Better Angels” and Hans Rosling’s TED talks: Maybe humanity actually is on track towards a better future? Maybe literacy is up, violence is down, mortality rate in children is down, poverty is down, not just as an incidental point in the swings of the pendulum of history or an artefakt of data collection, but indeed as a result of our common striving for a better future - UN Millennium goals and all? Mysticism and a trust in fate has an increasing attraction for me, especially if the usual other options are demoralizing fatalism / escapism and tiresome self-blaming activism. Of course as the pendulum of my mood swings, my world view can swing with it on an hourly basis. In the golden words of a recent meme: - When you think that everyone hates you: eat. - When you hate everyone: sleep. - When you hate yourself: shower.
as to the question at 1:48:00 - as to why the life and sayings of Jesus were poorly recorded; if Jesus was truly teaching an apocalyptic movement and that the end times were near or imminent, then recording his sayings and doings might have been a moot point for him and his followers. After all, if the end times had truly come within a few years of his ministry, who would have been around to read them or learn from them, since the lessons would have reached their fruition and the kingdom of God had already been established on earth?
The Gospel of Jesus was originally one book, written by Lazarus in consultation with the Apostles (John 21:23-24) and published soon after Jesus left them on their own. Not generations after the facts. Rome hijacked the religion. Broke up the text and scrambled it so as to be a testimony that does not quite altogether agree, ascribed false authorship and a Gnosticism cover story - canonizing books that they themselves caused to be confounded in the first place. And Epistles are counterfeits, especially those attributed to Paul.
Ta again. This is actually the 2nd time I've watched this and, like a good book, it continued to offer a new perspective on the topic. Back to Lyons for the next one...
John/Leandro, I could not lock down your broadcast from last night!!! The video remained frozen, and absolutely no audio!!! This on my TV (UA-cam). Just thought that I would pass that on to you.
I lean toward a hypothesis that Matthew is a version of Mark at a specific church that slowly evolved with additions from different sources, until it became a recognisably separate document. Luke's author, having no notion of this, but access to different source documents, may have taken the opportunity to write yet a third document reflecting the view of a more Pauline theology. Then the author of John did the same for their church a generation later.
Could you do a lecture about figuring out which of Socrates' sayings are authentic? Is there a way to figure that out considering we only know what we know about Socrates from Plato?
Xenophon and Aristophanes also wrote about Socrates. Xenophon was one of his students. Aristophanes wrote a theater play about Socrates and it is entirely possible that Socrates himself saw it. We know of authors that knew Socrates and wrote about him, like Aeschines of Sphettus, but their works are almost completely lost.
Muslim Jesus AND a video on the lost book of Q within two weeks?!? Surely I must’ve done something good to deserve this GOLD 🤩. (Former Lutheran, interfaith rev, long time Quaker, new Islam revert, & big time Centre Place Fan)
raised as a devote Southern Baptist knowing thousands of "Christians" I think John comes closet to the real meaning of a true believer and follower of Christ
Your answers to the last two questions were brilliant. This is all great stuff to learn, but finding out how to incorporate this stuff in our day to day lives to make our lives and the lives of those that we interact with better, that's what it's all about.
The growing consensus is that he probably used both languages. However, whenever he was preaching his mainly apocalyptic theology, he would have done it in Aramaic because that would have been the target audience's language. Plus the Greeks and Romans would not have liked what he had to say on that matter.
Google ""Was the New Testament Really Written In Greek? By Lataster free pdf" for free 400 page book showing much evidence, much from the current greek variations, showing that Aramaic origin.
@@daisymaygames The consensus from archaeology is that the majority of 1st century Galilean Jews would have spoken some Greek. This is because archaeology has shown that practically every major population center in Galilee was already heavily hellenized by the time of Herod the Great. Not just the cities; even fishing towns like Capernaum were already very Greek. Herod Antipas' capital city of Sepphoris (which Nazareth was a suburb of) was super-Greek. If the historical Jesus had tried to find any work as a tekton, he would have had to do so in Sepphoris, so he would have had to speak some Greek. Probably very bad Greek, but enough to negotiate pay or receive work instructions.
I'm not so sure that Paul died before James. In fact, if you go by some of the Clementine literature and others, P/Saul may have actually been on hand for the death of James, and P/Saul's imprisonment and death may be derived from his acts against James.
Has Mr Hamer ever thought of collaborating on a movie of sorts showing/ explaining how the New Testament was most likely canonized and recorded down… seeing all the nuances and after Jesus’ death the different arcing paths of Paul and James and Peter…
@mikeclapper4236 ah, argument from silence. i would tend to argue from name distribution and undesigned coincidences. As a Christian, i tend to trust the early church fathers, in that if they say its written by the four, it is. i mean how many times must God prove the bible right before we take it on faith
I absolutely love listening to your videos. Yet, whenever it comes to the topic of Q, I can't help but feel like biblical scholars are just plain arrogant. It's probably partly because you can't give every detail and argument, and I don't mean that you specifically sound arrogant, rather the conclusions seem so. It's not like the authors of the gospels each grew up in a bubble, completely isolated from one another. Does it really have to be the case that a common written source led to Luke and Matthew? Couldn't it just be common stories passed along? Anyway, I actually wanted to say thanks! 😆
I’ve been waiting for this one. If Q is not Thomas, than the author of Thomas used Q imo as their are several sayings in Thomas that are near identical, or identical to that in Matthew
Off subject but since the “I am’s” don’t work in Hebrew, are these just midrash or is the point the undereducated reader who doesn’t get the difference?
How can the disciples on one hand believe Jesus is a prophet according to Q, then on the other be shocked at his crucifixion when considering not only the words of Jesus in Q acknowledging this the history or prophets, but the history itself of fates like Isaiah? To be a prophet is to suffer execution. Wasn't John the Baptist executed as a precursor to Jesus? How were the disciples shocked then?
Thank you,Sir!!! I watch these everytime!! I like alot your style gifs full info everything what you teatching! Everything good for you sir!! 👌👍☺️✌️🌻☀️❤️
Sir, you're doing an amazing job with this series, and educating people all over the planet. I'm a scholar with strong interest in hx. of Christianity, and believe you've got a very strong grasp on early Christianity. There's a UA-cam show called "History Valley," which you may be familiar with. I'd love to see you appear on that show. Your views on Didache as being part of early Christianity are different from his (he sees it as being 2nd c. CE), but I think you are right. Would like to see you debate him on such topics. As someone with a history of devout Christianity, it seems incredibly obvious to me that the Didache (and Q) are among the very earliest surviving Christian documents. Yet, oddly, there's a whole group of supposed "historicists" who think both and the 4 gospels were all produced in the 2nd century! Baffling.
Isn’t it more likely that q was not written by one author but is a collection of writings by numerous people including the disciples and disciples of disciples or even other people that witnessed Jesus? Early on, I would expect different people to write short stories or sayings without trying to write a whole book. Then these would not be in any order but is just a collection of writings. Then when the gospel writers decided to organize the collection, they organized them with their own intent and style. This would also explain why different gospels have different stories because maybe they didn’t all have the same exact collection.
I wonder if Mark was just a lightweight shorter Gospel, as it was very expensive to copy a book, but I agree it would have to delete a lot of very important content that was not even summarized in Mark.
So what I got from this is that essentially that the concept of the Trinity God, Jesus and the Holly Spirit sprung out of the attempt understand the Christology of Jesus. It was trying to define what he was after he died. They thought he was just a man and a prophet but when he died they had to answer the question of "Was he God". The stories of his powers made some believe that. The Muslims said no and so did some Christians but they were out competed by those that deified Christ.
I'm not religious. I don't accept tribal claims as evidence of historical fact. But I respect those who do and find these takes of some interest but not to be taken very seriously. It's all 2nd, 3rd, 10th hand tales. Good videos sir!
Seems to me a leap of faith to think Jesus’ refers to the method of his own execution when admonishing picking up your ‘stauros’ vs. simply stating be prepared to suffer for choosing to follow me.
Not sure why this isn't more well known but the "sigils" of the 4 gospel authors.. the lion, ox man and eagle are referring to the 4 fixed zodiacal signs.. it couldn't be more obvious. The lion is Leo, the man is Aquarius, the ox is the bull Taurus and the eagle which looks at first not to fit because the 4th fixed sign is a scorpion for scorpio . But that's a more modern take.. in ancient times scorpio was symbolized by the eagle . I know everyone thinks astrology is nonsense but it's embedded everywhere in the biblical texts.. just look at the banners of the 12 tribe's.. they're astrological.. 12 judge's, 12 prophets 12 tribe's 12 apostles.. all the zodiac my friend
@supernovakip sadly the reason why the concept of the zodiac is/ was and always will be relevant is told only in the oral tradition.. though to be fair I have seen it mentioned twice in print most notably in the Book "the holy science " by swami Sri yucketswar Giri.... everything moves, nothing is at rest including our sun which makes a 25, 920 year orbit (mistakenly called precession of the equinox) in a binary with Sirius. The zodiac is merely a representation of that orbit through space
At 29:55 you say the Romans executed Paul. Is that established fact or religious folklore? 2 Timothy only infers that Paul, being imprisoned, might have been exposed to such a risk at some future time. In addition, 2 Timothy is accepted by the consensus of biblical scholars as NOT written by Paul as it claims to be. i.e. it is accepted as a forgery written by a pseudonymous author. I look to this site for its excellent scholarly analysis. Could you take care to appropriately qualify Christian religious claims like these rather than stating them as outright "fact"?
The Gospel of Jesus( Injeel) was originally one book, written by Lazarus in consultation with the Apostles (John 21:23-24) and published soon after Jesus left them on their own. Not generations after the facts. Rome hijacked the religion. Broke up the text and scrambled it so as to be a testimony that does not quite altogether agree, ascribed false authorship and a Gnosticism cover story - canonizing books that they themselves caused to be confounded in the first place. And Epistles are counterfeits, especially those attributed to Paul.
I'm an atheist but these Centre Place lectures along with Bart Ehrman's output have really opened up the hisfory of early Christianity to me as a fascinatingly interestesting one. Johns lectures on other subjects very educational too. Thanks.
In terms of secondary reasons, there is alot mondern day people don't understand or consider. Reading and writing on an advanced enough level to write meaningful and long compositions, like a biography, is rare. "Paper" and "ink" is expensive, you wouldn't be making one copy either, people would want many once it got popular. Hiring a competent scribe to write is also expensive. Preserving things orally, and by memory, was the norm, what was practiced, and what was considered most reliable. Certain people would memorize whole books or discourses. The Kingdom of God seemed like an imminent and soon to be reality to happen in the lifetime of the audience. If anyone suspected it would take over 2,000 years writing probably would have occured sooner. We don't know if they *did* write things down, even if only sayings. Even if they did, why would it have been preserved? It would have been copied, then when the gospels became the most circulated, authoratative, and informative documents that contaned much of what was in the earlier writing, the earlier writing, if indeed real, may have uncirculated out of existence, no longer copied as frequently.
i personally think jesus story was massively inspired by the bacchae and other greek texts. fitting into a greater greek literature group of mystics from afar teaching new rites. There may have been a historical figure, but i believe him to be man. Johns answer to my question was quite intriguing, i must ponder it.
@@Darisiabgal7573 the gospel of luke, john, and massive parts of acts remind me of it. i wont lie jesus himself feels like a gallean character, i cannot deny that but his divine powers and accounts to me strike me as shockingly similiar to the bacchae
you should definitely look into the proofs of the resurrection then, also Jesus was MOST DEFINITLEY real. there are hostile witnesses to this... Jesus IS God, the proof is there if you want to find it
@@seekingsomethingshamanic You need to separate two identities, those Jesus Christ imagery inspired by Paul and the Ephesians community of Timothy ( this includes Mark and Luke) and the Yeshu of Nazareth imagery found in Q and the epistle of James. Paul’s imagery as you say one man’s imagination and it gets fleshed out in Mark and redacted, supplemented in Matthew and Luke. But see here’s the bugaboo, while Luke is much later than Matthew, his Q passages are more primitive indicating that Luke actually has a written version of Q in front of him. Man versus mystical image of a Man both are real but in different ways.
Q is not a document that was exists; it is not a document that was ever found, it is merely a hypothesis and as such it is okay to try to reconstruct it as an academic exercise... but to say "according to Q" is misleading because it treats Q as something that is a real thing. People might not realize that "according to Q" it the same as to say "according to something that we don't have, that we never had, that we only guess it might have existed".
34:51 The original 'master' copy would have been written in Biblical Hebrew as a considered legitimate 'canon' to the rest of the Old Testament. From that master copy many retranslated copies in Greek, Latin, etc. ...for The Gospel of Jesus was the #1 Bestseller of it's day, making all the Apostles celebrities.
The Gospel of Jesus was originally one book, written by Lazarus in consultation with the Apostles (John 21:23-24) and published soon after Jesus left them on their own. Not generations after the facts. Rome hijacked the religion. Broke up the text and scrambled it so as to be a testimony that does not quite altogether agree, ascribed false authorship and a Gnosticism cover story - canonizing books that they themselves caused to be confounded in the first place. And Epistles are counterfeits, especially those attributed to Paul.
Hebrew being a phonetic language that is relatively easy to learn to read, and Jesus being a teacher with extreme familiarity with scripture such that he quoted it often, it is perfectly reasonable to theorize that Jesus wrote Q. What Rabbi wouldn't write down his most important sermon and his most important lessons? Then we have Matthew the tax collector who would have spoke and read Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek in the daily course of his job. I bet there were at least four literate people among the 12 plus Jesus and then they had wealthy supporters who made it possible for them to devote their time to teaching and writing.
I would like to bring up a concept imo pretty well established...a type of Jewish reincarnation that is found in the gospel...people were asking Christ...are you Elijah etc etc indicating they believed in reincarnation of a sort. Now if that is the case....it forms a good case that "this generation" since it would be made of people who had or who could reincarnate...did not need to apply at the time period. For the sake of urgency and for the sake of impending importance, the full extant of the doctrine did not need to clarified however imo it was clearly known that many if not all of "generations" reincarnate, meaning...the apocalyptic nature can continue to carry forward till the apocalypses happens which when it happens will indeed include..."all the "this" generations. Could someone address the reincarnation that was addressed in the gospels but nobody talks about. Peace. ty for your hard work
2:08 It is very interesting that Islam, Judaism and most Christians denominations accept that "God the Father" transcends the idea of Gender, and yet almost always God is treated as a Male. I get that is because Jesus, but I don't know.
FOLLOWING ANYONE OR ANYTHING, WHOEVER OR WHATEVER AT THE EXPENSE OF FOLLOWING YEHOVAH THE TRUE GOD IN PLACE OF FOLLOWING YEHOVAH THE TRUE GOD IS AN ABOMINABLE ACT IDOL GOD WORSHIP REPENT QUICKLY Deuteronomy 13:4 ASV Ye shall walk after Jehovah your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him. Exodus 23:25 ASV And ye shall serve Jehovah your God, and he will bless thy bread, and thy water; and I will take sickness away from the midst of thee. Deuteronomy 10:12-13,16-17,20-21 ASV And now, Israel, what doth Jehovah thy God require of thee, but to fear Jehovah thy God, to walk in all his ways, and to love him, and to serve Jehovah thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul, [13] to keep the commandments of Jehovah, and his statutes, which I command thee this day for thy good? [16] Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked. [17] For Jehovah your God, he is God of gods, and Lord of lords, the great God, the mighty, and the terrible, who regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward. [20] Thou shalt fear Jehovah thy God; him shalt thou serve; and to him shalt thou cleave, and by his name shalt thou swear. [21] He is thy praise, and he is thy God, that hath done for thee these great and terrible things, which thine eyes have seen. Deuteronomy 4:2 ASV Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish from it, that ye may keep the commandments of Jehovah your God which I command you. Deuteronomy 5:32 ASV Ye shall observe to do therefore as Jehovah your God hath commanded you: ye shall not turn aside to the right hand or to the left. Deuteronomy 6:4-6,13,17-18,24-25 ASV Hear, O Israel: Jehovah our God is one Jehovah: [5] and thou shalt love Jehovah thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might. [6] And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be upon thy heart; [13] Thou shalt fear Jehovah thy God; and him shalt thou serve, and shalt swear by his name. [17] Ye shall diligently keep the commandments of Jehovah your God, and his testimonies, and his statutes, which he hath commanded thee. [18] And thou shalt do that which is right and good in the sight of Jehovah; that it may be well with thee, and that thou mayest go in and possess the good land which Jehovah sware unto thy fathers, [24] And Jehovah commanded us to do all these statutes, to fear Jehovah our God, for our good always, that he might preserve us alive, as at this day. [25] And it shall be righteousness unto us, if we observe to do all this commandment before Jehovah our God, as he hath commanded us. Deuteronomy 12:28,32 ASV Observe and hear all these words which I command thee, that it may go well with thee, and with thy children after thee for ever, when thou doest that which is good and right in the eyes of Jehovah thy God. [32] What thing soever I command you, that shall ye observe to do: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it. Joshua 24:14 ASV Now therefore fear Jehovah, and serve him in sincerity and in truth; and put away the gods which your fathers served beyond the River, and in Egypt; and serve ye Jehovah. Deuteronomy 11:1 ASV Therefore thou shalt love Jehovah thy God, and keep his charge, and his statutes, and his ordinances, and his commandments, alway.
Q is hypothesised on the assumption that the obvious is excluded on the basis that Jesus isn't God. What is the reason that the following is not the case: Jesus was an itinerate preacher who preached a set of sermons, parables and stories. The disciples memorised much of his material. The similarities are shared memorised oral sayings of Jesus. The differences are just as we see in witnesses testimonies of events and the acting of the spirit bringing to their memory as Jesus told them would be the case. Q is just an excuse of unbelievers who insist that natural means is the only means permitted.
..First followers of Jesus & succeeding followers (7 Churches of Asia)..are those Christians who write from Rigth to Left or from East to West and they use Scrolls or Jadeslips, Bamboo slips....Those so called Christians who Write from Left to Right or West to East and use Fascia book Binding are Pauline Christians & they Belong to The Left Side of the Boat...Only John was told to Write in a Book(johns version)..the others authors were not commisioned by Jesus.
Elijah has returned, as prophesied, and testifies: Christians misunderstand far more than they understand, because they don't know what GOD is, what satan is, what they are, and why they are here. GOD is the Mind that is ALL, we are the Thought (LOGOS, Spirit) of that Mind (also known as the Son of GOD, Christ) given the ability to think WITH that Mind, satan is the irrational idea that there is something OTHER than GOD, and we are experiencing this world of limitation BECAUSE we gave power to that irrational idea (satan) in our minds. And satan manifests as the selfish human EGO. Yeshua One with Christ ("Jesus Christ") is the man who totally OVERCAME that irrational idea (satan, the ego), and shows us how to do the same - which is through nonjudgment and forgiveness and love. (In other words, we fell into separation and limitation by empowering an irrational idea, and we will overcome that error by doing the opposite, like Jesus did.) And because Jesus overcame the ego, Christ is able to manifest the physical man Jesus Christ at will in this world, whenever necessary. All mysteries have been unveiled and published in these "end times": the end of the old Cycle of Time that the New Cycle may be born. And if you seek you will find.
😇 *Matthew 2:12-15 And Being Warned Of GOD In A Dream That They Should Not Return To Herod, They Departed Into Their Own Country Another Way. And When They Were Departed, Behold, The Angel Of The Lord Appeareth To Joseph In A Dream, Saying, Arise, and Take The Young Child and His Mother, and Flee Into Egypt, and Be Thou There Until I Bring Thee Word: For Herod Will Seek The Young Child To Destroy Him. When He Arose, He Took The Young Child and His Mother By Night, and Departed Into Egypt: And Was There Until The Death Of Herod: That It Might Be Fulfilled Which Was Spoken Of The Lord By The Prophet, Saying Out Of Egypt Have I Called MY Son. How Could 3 Caucasians, HIDE IN EGYPT !!!&!!!* 🤔
I'm not religious at all, but love these lectures, especially to fall asleep to. I was actually shocked to find out he is a pastor, I thought these were university professor lectures for a while!
John was originally a professional historian specializing on (real) Mormon history. You know, the Fawn Brodie stuff. Later he got recruited to join the CoC, then became a pastor. That's why he sounds like a university lecturer. He used to be one.
I use these at night for the exact same purpose. Interesting enough to alleviate anxiety but soothing enough to help you fall asleep!
You're not the only one who.uses them to fall asleep to. But I make sure to wind back to pick up from.the same spot to take it all in. Don't mean any disrespect by it, just helps send me off into another world of imagination!
@@DeanMorrison same exact including the constant rewinding!
The mind never sleeps...the "hypnogogic state"...between wakefulness and sleep is an excellent 👌 time to soak in knowledge like a sponge directly into your subconscious mind. In my case I listen to video after video on UA-cam continuously in my "liked video" play list while sleeping at night, listening to videos for literally hours on end...all night long.
Even I'm muslim I like learning about Jesus and his followers bcz we believe he was great prophet of God and thank you for giving us all this information for free❤
My favorite day - a new Centre Place drop!!! - thank you for amazing content!!
I know, I just got really excited!
I'm not even a religious person but I watch this guy videos every day. He is such a great speaker. Love his content.
Easily the best source for comprehensive historical and Biblical knowledge. Thank you John Hamer!
This channel is an absolute gem!! Thank you🙏❤️🙏
Thanks You now and always! Attended your Sunday Gathering online 4 the first time and was inspired. Love the Parable series ❤🌎🙏🏻
Thank you so much for supporting the channel with this generous donation
I do enjoy John's lectures. I am a lifelong student of History. I'm also an atheist who loves to learn. The Bible is the most important book ever written you can't understand art, literature, or history without having a basic knowledge of it. I just wanted to say thank you but I was really posting because a UA-cam ad popped up right when John was saying if a preacher asks for money they are a false prophet. I am referring to that UA-cam ad for evangelizing in Israel. I am NOT referring to center place. I may be an atheist but I recognized your sincerity I just found the timing funny
Been looking forward to this lecture for two weeks.
The Gospel of Jesus was originally one book, written by Lazarus in consultation with the Apostles (John 21:23-24) and published soon after Jesus left them on their own. Not generations after the facts. Rome hijacked the religion. Broke up the text and scrambled it so as to be a testimony that does not quite altogether agree, ascribed false authorship and a Gnosticism cover story - canonizing books that they themselves caused to be confounded in the first place.
And Epistles are counterfeits, especially those attributed to Paul.
Wow! A long video on one of my favourite subjects. That's my morning listening taken care of!
I discovered this channel yesterday, and I am already hooked. Very interesting, and you present all of this in a way that makes it easier to grasp than other such lectures I have seen. Thank you, and bless you!
Yet another fascinating lecture. Thank you, John. As an atheist, the meaning I take from the figure Jesus is the continuation of the struggle against oppression, a struggle being played out today. The Jesus story is one of someone who lived in a contested region under foreign rule, and the very human desire to be free of that imposition. There are moments in the Jesus story where he did what he could to just get along with the status quo. Those moments are interspersed with flashes of rage at the combined oppression from Rome as well as the priest classes that ruled in Palestine. It is a fascinating story, overall, and a lot of meaning can be extracted from it when viewed from a historical perspective.
Sounds like you didn’t read the NT at all. If you want to understand the story of Jesus, you have to go to Dionysus first.
Where does Dionysus feature in the NT?
It is such a pleasure to listen to an informative, interesting discourse without annoying background music.
Thank you Center Place
These lectures are fantastic !!
They provide both details that other channels provide, while simultaneously giving the greater contextual overview in a very orderly chronology !! This give a very coherent narrative of the topic (bravo!) which is something most academic lecturers leave listeners to do for themselves with the assumption that the listener only is interested in some abstract point that the lecturer is answering (cough Ehrman cough).
Regards,
An appreciative subscriber.
Thank you so much. What an informative lesson! You'd think that 2000 years of frustrated apocalipses would be enough. But today's 😢version canna actually get us all wiped out.
I did pause to like and Tuesday is one of my favorite days as well. I’ve watched nearly every lecture. Eye balls on from Down Under.
I'm no believer, but those last seven minutes was pure gold. "The Jesus of scripture in the presence...." wow
He opened my eyes to the reality of the Bible, truths have set me free
I love the human sacrifice part.
It's disappointing that we have so many writings from Paul but none from James.
Jesus was fluent in reading and writing. Too bad he didn't bother to write any of his teachings down himself.
@@Magoover1please explain. I thought that scholars believe that he was illiterate.
Enriching lecture as usual. I like Q’s perspective overall.
It puts forth a grounded, sage portrayal of Jesus.
Hint: _Nobody has Q._ Nobody knows "Q's perspective". Q is wholly a figment of the collective imagination of "NT scholars". (I quote because they have nothing like the standards of real scholars.).
The original motivation for Q, an imaginary "independence" of Matthew and Luke authorship, is completely false: we know with certainty that 'Luke' had Matthew in hand. The methods used for constructing Q are intellectually bankrupt, denying authorial agency. Actual authors make choices according to their goals and resources which include, at times, simplifying, at others, elaborating, sometimes omitting what they don't like, others making up whatever they think they need. (Absent authorial agency, who is supposed to have written Q? Where did that person copy it from?)
There is no defensible difference betweeen Q and Matthew itself. All work on Q, over many decades, has been a waste of time, effort, and careers, and will be looked back on as a huge embarrassment to the field. The field will, in the end, learn nothing from the experience.
29:03 love these timelines of what we currently know
52:39
1:05:06
1:27:01
1:58:31
I actually like it when you teach and preach the outcomes of state of the art research, rather than just putting the scientific achievements on a pedestal, without telling us what you make of it. It’s like You personally represent the least obnoxious living tradition that incorporates the scientific findings without losing the part of actually still being a religion.
It’s one deciding step further from Richard Dawkins calling himself a cultural Christian, and two steps further from Joscha Bach seeing Religion as civilizational OS, bemoaning the loss of „the will of God“ as our inability in the modern day to play the longest games possible, as we no longer have a common view of the future, as the future keeps changing faster than our predictions for it.
I love all three approaches, and it would be a loss to the world if even one of those stances would vanish from history. People can (and do) live different truths: some are scientific truths, others are cultural truths, and again others still preserve the original smell of religion without stinking.
Most discussions about religion are unbearable to watch for an atheist like me, who still had a traditional Christian upbringing. I‘m with Jordan Peterson, when he doesn’t want to throw the baby out with the bathwater: if we do away with all our religious and cultural heritage, we do so at our own peril. - But we’d also lose connection with the truth, if we ignored all the things we learned scientifically about the origins and transmission, construction, reconstruction and interpretation of the narratives and teachings that have come down to us through the history of religious tradition.
Call me out on my cognitive dissonances all you want: I like them. - I love being rigorous when it suits me, and being hand wavy in all cases I haven’t reached the bottom yet. Yes, yes: the lukewarm are damned, but so be it. - I never was a Catholic, but I like their idea of being a happy sinner. 😂
P.S. I guess Jonathan Pageau‘s podcasts with Richard Rohlin on „Universal History“ also deserve a shoutout - even though my overlap with Eastern Orthodoxy is nonexistent, they sure know how to represent an almost lost world view: that the Middle Ages truly saw themselves as a seamless continuation of late Antiquity.: living eternally in the presence of God‘s plan: Don’t worry, the Kingdom of God is well underway. I like that view more than the typical Catholic or Protestant views on attempts to build the Kingdom of God. (I’ll copy and paste a little excursion.)
Excursion on the Kingdom of God (- what I concluded after watching Pageau and Rohlin)
Protestantism be like: God gave us a choice. The Kingdom of God in this world is only a tiny seed within our mind. God only has our hands. He manifests in our consciousness and the beliefs in our minds, guiding our will: thus we have to bring on the changes with our own work. We are Atlas, bearing the world on our shoulders. If we stumble or let it slip, the fate of the world will be going to shit in the blink of an eye. We must always be diligent and watchful. This is why transgressions against the Holy Spirit can’t be forgiven. We are on a mission. God is giving us faith and strength to do his will: he wants this world to mirror Heaven, and tasks us with it.
Catholicism be like: We are sinners. Keeping the faith for a better world is all we can do. Building Heaven on Earth is by definition not only unreachable, but even a folly (- Tower of Babel). Yes, we shall let our light shine and build cities on the hill to exemplify the ideal of Heaven, but the world itself will always be a valley of death (Jammertal). We look up to the Saints and point to them, who acted exemplary and modeled God’s qualities for us, but we know that they are the exceptions. It’s ok to fail, because that allows God to forgive us and play his part and always lead us back on the path. The promise for the Heavenly Kingdom necessarily lies in the beyond, always has and always will, until He comes in Glory to finish the salvation of all creation.
Orthodox Christianity, as Pageau explores it and explains it, be like: God’s Kingdom is manifesting itself in human history. We are little cogs and wheels in God’s big plan. He works in us and through us to the best of our abilities and destinies, but it is he himself that acts and brings his plan to fruition. The History of the World per definition is on track, even when God works in mysterious ways. The path might be stony and overgrown and at times obscured or hard to travel, but God is guiding us along: we might stumble and slip and fall, but God doesn’t. The saving of humanity and the world is well underway. We might not understand it, but we can still trust that it happens, and we all have our roles to play, before God himself finishes the great work.
It’s a stark difference:
- failing is not an option, we are the chosen ones
- vs failing is guaranteed, but all it does, is showing the greater glory of God
- vs there is no failure: God works in mysterious ways, our part is to figure it out and play our small roles.
It’s like a faith version of the discussions around Steven Pinker’s “Better Angels” and Hans Rosling’s TED talks: Maybe humanity actually is on track towards a better future? Maybe literacy is up, violence is down, mortality rate in children is down, poverty is down, not just as an incidental point in the swings of the pendulum of history or an artefakt of data collection, but indeed as a result of our common striving for a better future - UN Millennium goals and all?
Mysticism and a trust in fate has an increasing attraction for me, especially if the usual other options are demoralizing fatalism / escapism and tiresome self-blaming activism.
Of course as the pendulum of my mood swings, my world view can swing with it on an hourly basis.
In the golden words of a recent meme:
- When you think that everyone hates you: eat.
- When you hate everyone: sleep.
- When you hate yourself: shower.
as to the question at 1:48:00 - as to why the life and sayings of Jesus were poorly recorded; if Jesus was truly teaching an apocalyptic movement and that the end times were near or imminent, then recording his sayings and doings might have been a moot point for him and his followers.
After all, if the end times had truly come within a few years of his ministry, who would have been around to read them or learn from them, since the lessons would have reached their fruition and the kingdom of God had already been established on earth?
The Gospel of Jesus was originally one book, written by Lazarus in consultation with the Apostles (John 21:23-24) and published soon after Jesus left them on their own. Not generations after the facts. Rome hijacked the religion. Broke up the text and scrambled it so as to be a testimony that does not quite altogether agree, ascribed false authorship and a Gnosticism cover story - canonizing books that they themselves caused to be confounded in the first place.
And Epistles are counterfeits, especially those attributed to Paul.
Ta again. This is actually the 2nd time I've watched this and, like a good book, it continued to offer a new perspective on the topic. Back to Lyons for the next one...
This is a wonderful topic!
John/Leandro,
I could not lock down your broadcast from last night!!!
The video remained frozen, and absolutely no audio!!!
This on my TV (UA-cam).
Just thought that I would pass that on to you.
Sorry about that! Are you able to watch the recorded video now?
@@centre-place :
Yes, the recorded plays fine!!!
I really appreciate it, when there is access to the video transcipt in text format - but perhaps it is intentional that this is not the case here?
There should be an automatically generated transcript. However, John does not read everything he says, there is no script.
@@centre-place I see there is one now, so it was a temporary thing.
Another great lecture! Thanks for sharing your knowledge Mr. Hamer. I really enjoy watching and/or listening to these!
how can we apply this concept about the divine, about meaning, meaningfully today. john you are a poet. i like your interpertation of the trinity alot
Great Stuff John!
I lean toward a hypothesis that Matthew is a version of Mark at a specific church that slowly evolved with additions from different sources, until it became a recognisably separate document. Luke's author, having no notion of this, but access to different source documents, may have taken the opportunity to write yet a third document reflecting the view of a more Pauline theology. Then the author of John did the same for their church a generation later.
Could you do a lecture about figuring out which of Socrates' sayings are authentic? Is there a way to figure that out considering we only know what we know about Socrates from Plato?
Xenophon and Aristophanes also wrote about Socrates. Xenophon was one of his students. Aristophanes wrote a theater play about Socrates and it is entirely possible that Socrates himself saw it. We know of authors that knew Socrates and wrote about him, like Aeschines of Sphettus, but their works are almost completely lost.
Excellent lecture. Thank you John. Blessings to all.
Muslim Jesus AND a video on the lost book of Q within two weeks?!? Surely I must’ve done something good to deserve this GOLD 🤩. (Former Lutheran, interfaith rev, long time Quaker, new Islam revert, & big time Centre Place Fan)
Your goodness is blessing all of us. Thanks Daisy May.
Allah has chosen u sister like he did to me
@@lolislol523Blessings fellow human.
Interesting that 94% of Mark is in Mathew
will John Hamer ever lead a tour of the holy land? It would be the ideal trip.
Finally a couple of hours for me to listen to Mr. Hammer
Waited for this stuff.
raised as a devote Southern Baptist knowing thousands of "Christians" I think John comes closet to the real meaning of a true believer and follower of Christ
Your answers to the last two questions were brilliant. This is all great stuff to learn, but finding out how to incorporate this stuff in our day to day lives to make our lives and the lives of those that we interact with better, that's what it's all about.
How do we know that Jesus didn't speak and preach in Greek rather than Aramaic?
The growing consensus is that he probably used both languages. However, whenever he was preaching his mainly apocalyptic theology, he would have done it in Aramaic because that would have been the target audience's language. Plus the Greeks and Romans would not have liked what he had to say on that matter.
Hmm? If he spoke Greek then he was rhyming
Google ""Was the New Testament Really Written In Greek? By Lataster free pdf" for free 400 page book showing much evidence, much from the current greek variations, showing that Aramaic origin.
I’m gunna guess that his Jewish peers didn’t speak Greek. He was preaching to the people in his communities, not his Roman oppressors.
@@daisymaygames The consensus from archaeology is that the majority of 1st century Galilean Jews would have spoken some Greek. This is because archaeology has shown that practically every major population center in Galilee was already heavily hellenized by the time of Herod the Great. Not just the cities; even fishing towns like Capernaum were already very Greek. Herod Antipas' capital city of Sepphoris (which Nazareth was a suburb of) was super-Greek. If the historical Jesus had tried to find any work as a tekton, he would have had to do so in Sepphoris, so he would have had to speak some Greek. Probably very bad Greek, but enough to negotiate pay or receive work instructions.
I'm not so sure that Paul died before James. In fact, if you go by some of the Clementine literature and others, P/Saul may have actually been on hand for the death of James, and P/Saul's imprisonment and death may be derived from his acts against James.
Has Mr Hamer ever thought of collaborating on a movie of sorts showing/ explaining how the New Testament was most likely canonized and recorded down… seeing all the nuances and after Jesus’ death the different arcing paths of Paul and James and Peter…
Can you do a lecture on the "Dutch radicals" and their arguments
Mulțumim!
cu plăcere! And thank you for this donation that helps us keep producing more content like this!
Im confused, which early church fathers thought that the gospels were anonymous?
They never made direct reference to the authors! Not till the mid or late second century
@mikeclapper4236 ah, argument from silence. i would tend to argue from name distribution and undesigned coincidences. As a Christian, i tend to trust the early church fathers, in that if they say its written by the four, it is. i mean how many times must God prove the bible right before we take it on faith
At least once more Miss Swan.
I absolutely love listening to your videos. Yet, whenever it comes to the topic of Q, I can't help but feel like biblical scholars are just plain arrogant. It's probably partly because you can't give every detail and argument, and I don't mean that you specifically sound arrogant, rather the conclusions seem so. It's not like the authors of the gospels each grew up in a bubble, completely isolated from one another. Does it really have to be the case that a common written source led to Luke and Matthew? Couldn't it just be common stories passed along?
Anyway, I actually wanted to say thanks! 😆
Interesting that the artist responsible for the picture supposes Jesus to have been a northern European, which is a tidly bit unlikely
I’ve been waiting for this one.
If Q is not Thomas, than the author of Thomas used Q imo as their are several sayings in Thomas that are near identical, or identical to that in Matthew
Off subject but since the “I am’s” don’t work in Hebrew, are these just midrash or is the point the undereducated reader who doesn’t get the difference?
How can the disciples on one hand believe Jesus is a prophet according to Q, then on the other be shocked at his crucifixion when considering not only the words of Jesus in Q acknowledging this the history or prophets, but the history itself of fates like Isaiah? To be a prophet is to suffer execution. Wasn't John the Baptist executed as a precursor to Jesus? How were the disciples shocked then?
Excellent, ty
Why did Matthew and Luke have a near perfect overlap of their use of Mark?
This is excellent
Thank you,Sir!!! I watch these everytime!! I like alot your style gifs full info everything what you teatching! Everything good for you sir!! 👌👍☺️✌️🌻☀️❤️
Thanks!
Sir, you're doing an amazing job with this series, and educating people all over the planet. I'm a scholar with strong interest in hx. of Christianity, and believe you've got a very strong grasp on early Christianity.
There's a UA-cam show called "History Valley," which you may be familiar with. I'd love to see you appear on that show. Your views on Didache as being part of early Christianity are different from his (he sees it as being 2nd c. CE), but I think you are right. Would like to see you debate him on such topics.
As someone with a history of devout Christianity, it seems incredibly obvious to me that the Didache (and Q) are among the very earliest surviving Christian documents. Yet, oddly, there's a whole group of supposed "historicists" who think both and the 4 gospels were all produced in the 2nd century! Baffling.
Mythvision is a good channel too.
@@Scorned405 I generally prefer History Valley, b/c I've found Derrick's super-high energy approach to be distracting at times.
Fan-rockin’-tas-TIC. AGAIN, one if the best and most easy to follow explanations I’ve ever heard regarding this topic. Bravo, Professor.
Thanks
Thank you for your support!
Isn’t it more likely that q was not written by one author but is a collection of writings by numerous people including the disciples and disciples of disciples or even other people that witnessed Jesus? Early on, I would expect different people to write short stories or sayings without trying to write a whole book. Then these would not be in any order but is just a collection of writings. Then when the gospel writers decided to organize the collection, they organized them with their own intent and style. This would also explain why different gospels have different stories because maybe they didn’t all have the same exact collection.
I wonder if Mark was just a lightweight shorter Gospel, as it was very expensive to copy a book, but I agree it would have to delete a lot of very important content that was not even summarized in Mark.
EXCELLENT!!
Here's an interesting real character to investigate around: Publius Cornelius Scipio Nasica Serapio
Oral tradition is only found to be accurate in poetry and prose. In other forms modification occur immediately and accumulate with each retelling.
So what I got from this is that essentially that the concept of the Trinity God, Jesus and the Holly Spirit sprung out of the attempt understand the Christology of Jesus. It was trying to define what he was after he died. They thought he was just a man and a prophet but when he died they had to answer the question of "Was he God". The stories of his powers made some believe that. The Muslims said no and so did some Christians but they were out competed by those that deified Christ.
love this guy
I'm not religious. I don't accept tribal claims as evidence of historical fact. But I respect those who do and find these takes of some interest but not to be taken very seriously. It's all 2nd, 3rd, 10th hand tales. Good videos sir!
Seems to me a leap of faith to think Jesus’ refers to the method of his own execution when admonishing picking up your ‘stauros’ vs. simply stating be prepared to suffer for choosing to follow me.
*Can’t do anything with extreme skepticism?*
Why not? You’d also have to be skeptical of doing nothing.
Not sure why this isn't more well known but the "sigils" of the 4 gospel authors.. the lion, ox man and eagle are referring to the 4 fixed zodiacal signs.. it couldn't be more obvious. The lion is Leo, the man is Aquarius, the ox is the bull Taurus and the eagle which looks at first not to fit because the 4th fixed sign is a scorpion for scorpio . But that's a more modern take.. in ancient times scorpio was symbolized by the eagle . I know everyone thinks astrology is nonsense but it's embedded everywhere in the biblical texts.. just look at the banners of the 12 tribe's.. they're astrological.. 12 judge's, 12 prophets 12 tribe's 12 apostles.. all the zodiac my friend
People talk bad about the Zodiac until they realize it’s the longest running study on human behavior we’ve got, predating Judaism and Zoroastrianism
@supernovakip sadly the reason why the concept of the zodiac is/ was and always will be relevant is told only in the oral tradition.. though to be fair I have seen it mentioned twice in print most notably in the Book "the holy science " by swami Sri yucketswar Giri.... everything moves, nothing is at rest including our sun which makes a 25, 920 year orbit (mistakenly called precession of the equinox) in a binary with Sirius. The zodiac is merely a representation of that orbit through space
I find it interesting that Jesus was defending the claim of him being a drunkard.
At 29:55 you say the Romans executed Paul. Is that established fact or religious folklore? 2 Timothy only infers that Paul, being imprisoned, might have been exposed to such a risk at some future time. In addition, 2 Timothy is accepted by the consensus of biblical scholars as NOT written by Paul as it claims to be. i.e. it is accepted as a forgery written by a pseudonymous author.
I look to this site for its excellent scholarly analysis. Could you take care to appropriately qualify Christian religious claims like these rather than stating them as outright "fact"?
Can you do something on the Injiĺ in the Quran which seems to be the idea for Q?
The Gospel of Jesus( Injeel) was originally one book, written by Lazarus in consultation with the Apostles (John 21:23-24) and published soon after Jesus left them on their own. Not generations after the facts. Rome hijacked the religion. Broke up the text and scrambled it so as to be a testimony that does not quite altogether agree, ascribed false authorship and a Gnosticism cover story - canonizing books that they themselves caused to be confounded in the first place.
And Epistles are counterfeits, especially those attributed to Paul.
I'm an atheist but these Centre Place lectures along with Bart Ehrman's output have really opened up the hisfory of early Christianity to me as a fascinatingly interestesting one. Johns lectures on other subjects very educational too. Thanks.
It is possible that Q could have been several written sources or multiple oral sources of the same sayings.
Why didn't Jesus himself write the bible, but all 33 years, not a word?
Same reason Sherlock Holmes didn't write up his own cases.
In terms of secondary reasons, there is alot mondern day people don't understand or consider.
Reading and writing on an advanced enough level to write meaningful and long compositions, like a biography, is rare.
"Paper" and "ink" is expensive, you wouldn't be making one copy either, people would want many once it got popular. Hiring a competent scribe to write is also expensive.
Preserving things orally, and by memory, was the norm, what was practiced, and what was considered most reliable. Certain people would memorize whole books or discourses.
The Kingdom of God seemed like an imminent and soon to be reality to happen in the lifetime of the audience. If anyone suspected it would take over 2,000 years writing probably would have occured sooner.
We don't know if they *did* write things down, even if only sayings. Even if they did, why would it have been preserved? It would have been copied, then when the gospels became the most circulated, authoratative, and informative documents that contaned much of what was in the earlier writing, the earlier writing, if indeed real, may have uncirculated out of existence, no longer copied as frequently.
I've been asking this question for years, but no reasonable answers are ever given without monumental amounts of apologetics.
If Jesus was crucified and rose from the dead the statement take up your cross may not be an anachronism. He may have stated it after the fact.
i personally think jesus story was massively inspired by the bacchae and other greek texts. fitting into a greater greek literature group of mystics from afar teaching new rites. There may have been a historical figure, but i believe him to be man. Johns answer to my question was quite intriguing, i must ponder it.
Mainly the gospel of John, Q is following a Deuteronomistic model.
@@Darisiabgal7573 the gospel of luke, john, and massive parts of acts remind me of it. i wont lie jesus himself feels like a gallean character, i cannot deny that but his divine powers and accounts to me strike me as shockingly similiar to the bacchae
you should definitely look into the proofs of the resurrection then, also Jesus was MOST DEFINITLEY real. there are hostile witnesses to this... Jesus IS God, the proof is there if you want to find it
@@GhostScout42 even john doesnt agree there is proof. i kindly hold my right to disagree
@@seekingsomethingshamanic
You need to separate two identities, those Jesus Christ imagery inspired by Paul and the Ephesians community of Timothy ( this includes Mark and Luke) and the Yeshu of Nazareth imagery found in Q and the epistle of James.
Paul’s imagery as you say one man’s imagination and it gets fleshed out in Mark and redacted, supplemented in Matthew and Luke. But see here’s the bugaboo, while Luke is much later than Matthew, his Q passages are more primitive indicating that Luke actually has a written version of Q in front of him.
Man versus mystical image of a Man both are real but in different ways.
Who is Q
For all bible NT books we have numerous copies. Q is a late late invention.
Q is not a document that was exists; it is not a document that was ever found, it is merely a hypothesis and as such it is okay to try to reconstruct it as an academic exercise... but to say "according to Q" is misleading because it treats Q as something that is a real thing. People might not realize that "according to Q" it the same as to say "according to something that we don't have, that we never had, that we only guess it might have existed".
PLAY @ X1.25
You're welcome.
34:51 The original 'master' copy would have been written in Biblical Hebrew as a considered legitimate 'canon' to the rest of the Old Testament. From that master copy many retranslated copies in Greek, Latin, etc. ...for The Gospel of Jesus was the #1 Bestseller of it's day, making all the Apostles celebrities.
The Gospel of Jesus was originally one book, written by Lazarus in consultation with the Apostles (John 21:23-24) and published soon after Jesus left them on their own. Not generations after the facts. Rome hijacked the religion. Broke up the text and scrambled it so as to be a testimony that does not quite altogether agree, ascribed false authorship and a Gnosticism cover story - canonizing books that they themselves caused to be confounded in the first place.
And Epistles are counterfeits, especially those attributed to Paul.
Didache: "Don't beg for money"
Modern day Churches: "Hold my wine"
Very difficult to believe in this oral tradition
Hebrew being a phonetic language that is relatively easy to learn to read, and Jesus being a teacher with extreme familiarity with scripture such that he quoted it often, it is perfectly reasonable to theorize that Jesus wrote Q. What Rabbi wouldn't write down his most important sermon and his most important lessons? Then we have Matthew the tax collector who would have spoke and read Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek in the daily course of his job. I bet there were at least four literate people among the 12 plus Jesus and then they had wealthy supporters who made it possible for them to devote their time to teaching and writing.
I would like to bring up a concept imo pretty well established...a type of Jewish reincarnation that is found in the gospel...people were asking Christ...are you Elijah etc etc indicating they believed in reincarnation of a sort. Now if that is the case....it forms a good case that "this generation" since it would be made of people who had or who could reincarnate...did not need to apply at the time period. For the sake of urgency and for the sake of impending importance, the full extant of the doctrine did not need to clarified however imo it was clearly known that many if not all of "generations" reincarnate, meaning...the apocalyptic nature can continue to carry forward till the apocalypses happens which when it happens will indeed include..."all the "this" generations. Could someone address the reincarnation that was addressed in the gospels but nobody talks about. Peace. ty for your hard work
Q-Annon?
2:08 It is very interesting that Islam, Judaism and most Christians denominations accept that "God the Father" transcends the idea of Gender, and yet almost always God is treated as a Male. I get that is because Jesus, but I don't know.
Ah, yes. Jesus' first followers according to a hypothetical source we don't have which may to may not even exist.
Mathew was not the first gospel written.
FOLLOWING ANYONE OR ANYTHING, WHOEVER OR WHATEVER
AT THE EXPENSE OF FOLLOWING YEHOVAH THE TRUE GOD
IN PLACE OF FOLLOWING YEHOVAH THE TRUE GOD IS AN ABOMINABLE ACT IDOL GOD WORSHIP
REPENT QUICKLY
Deuteronomy 13:4 ASV
Ye shall walk after Jehovah your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him.
Exodus 23:25 ASV
And ye shall serve Jehovah your God, and he will bless thy bread, and thy water; and I will take sickness away from the midst of thee.
Deuteronomy 10:12-13,16-17,20-21 ASV
And now, Israel, what doth Jehovah thy God require of thee, but to fear Jehovah thy God, to walk in all his ways, and to love him, and to serve Jehovah thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul, [13] to keep the commandments of Jehovah, and his statutes, which I command thee this day for thy good? [16] Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked. [17] For Jehovah your God, he is God of gods, and Lord of lords, the great God, the mighty, and the terrible, who regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward. [20] Thou shalt fear Jehovah thy God; him shalt thou serve; and to him shalt thou cleave, and by his name shalt thou swear. [21] He is thy praise, and he is thy God, that hath done for thee these great and terrible things, which thine eyes have seen.
Deuteronomy 4:2 ASV
Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish from it, that ye may keep the commandments of Jehovah your God which I command you.
Deuteronomy 5:32 ASV
Ye shall observe to do therefore as Jehovah your God hath commanded you: ye shall not turn aside to the right hand or to the left.
Deuteronomy 6:4-6,13,17-18,24-25 ASV
Hear, O Israel: Jehovah our God is one Jehovah: [5] and thou shalt love Jehovah thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might. [6] And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be upon thy heart; [13] Thou shalt fear Jehovah thy God; and him shalt thou serve, and shalt swear by his name. [17] Ye shall diligently keep the commandments of Jehovah your God, and his testimonies, and his statutes, which he hath commanded thee. [18] And thou shalt do that which is right and good in the sight of Jehovah; that it may be well with thee, and that thou mayest go in and possess the good land which Jehovah sware unto thy fathers, [24] And Jehovah commanded us to do all these statutes, to fear Jehovah our God, for our good always, that he might preserve us alive, as at this day. [25] And it shall be righteousness unto us, if we observe to do all this commandment before Jehovah our God, as he hath commanded us.
Deuteronomy 12:28,32 ASV
Observe and hear all these words which I command thee, that it may go well with thee, and with thy children after thee for ever, when thou doest that which is good and right in the eyes of Jehovah thy God. [32] What thing soever I command you, that shall ye observe to do: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.
Joshua 24:14 ASV
Now therefore fear Jehovah, and serve him in sincerity and in truth; and put away the gods which your fathers served beyond the River, and in Egypt; and serve ye Jehovah.
Deuteronomy 11:1 ASV
Therefore thou shalt love Jehovah thy God, and keep his charge, and his statutes, and his ordinances, and his commandments, alway.
Q is hypothesised on the assumption that the obvious is excluded on the basis that Jesus isn't God. What is the reason that the following is not the case: Jesus was an itinerate preacher who preached a set of sermons, parables and stories. The disciples memorised much of his material. The similarities are shared memorised oral sayings of Jesus. The differences are just as we see in witnesses testimonies of events and the acting of the spirit bringing to their memory as Jesus told them would be the case. Q is just an excuse of unbelievers who insist that natural means is the only means permitted.
And if we are being Petty ...
Then calling, even naming
Christianity Pre Jahovah Witnesses !!!!!
I bet Now we are not being petty Right ??? 😮
..First followers of Jesus & succeeding followers (7 Churches of Asia)..are those Christians who write from Rigth to Left or from East to West and they use Scrolls or Jadeslips, Bamboo slips....Those so called Christians who Write from Left to Right or West to East and use Fascia book Binding are Pauline Christians & they Belong to The Left Side of the Boat...Only John was told to Write in a Book(johns version)..the others authors were not commisioned by Jesus.
Elijah has returned, as prophesied, and testifies: Christians misunderstand far more than they understand, because they don't know what GOD is, what satan is, what they are, and why they are here. GOD is the Mind that is ALL, we are the Thought (LOGOS, Spirit) of that Mind (also known as the Son of GOD, Christ) given the ability to think WITH that Mind, satan is the irrational idea that there is something OTHER than GOD, and we are experiencing this world of limitation BECAUSE we gave power to that irrational idea (satan) in our minds. And satan manifests as the selfish human EGO. Yeshua One with Christ ("Jesus Christ") is the man who totally OVERCAME that irrational idea (satan, the ego), and shows us how to do the same - which is through nonjudgment and forgiveness and love. (In other words, we fell into separation and limitation by empowering an irrational idea, and we will overcome that error by doing the opposite, like Jesus did.) And because Jesus overcame the ego, Christ is able to manifest the physical man Jesus Christ at will in this world, whenever necessary.
All mysteries have been unveiled and published in these "end times": the end of the old Cycle of Time that the New Cycle may be born. And if you seek you will find.
Absolutely beautiful
Amazing how the original Jesus message portrayed by these early communities is very Islamic in theology and practice
You don't need to follow anyone.
You're all individuals.
Jews for Jesus Christ - 2025
Give me the old testament or Tenach it far less convoluted and a direct discussion directly from God through Moses, an we know moses wrote the Torah.
😇 *Matthew 2:12-15 And Being Warned Of GOD In A Dream That They Should Not Return To Herod, They Departed Into Their Own Country Another Way. And When They Were Departed, Behold, The Angel Of The Lord Appeareth To Joseph In A Dream, Saying, Arise, and Take The Young Child and His Mother, and Flee Into Egypt, and Be Thou There Until I Bring Thee Word: For Herod Will Seek The Young Child To Destroy Him. When He Arose, He Took The Young Child and His Mother By Night, and Departed Into Egypt: And Was There Until The Death Of Herod: That It Might Be Fulfilled Which Was Spoken Of The Lord By The Prophet, Saying Out Of Egypt Have I Called MY Son. How Could 3 Caucasians, HIDE IN EGYPT !!!&!!!* 🤔
Jesus himself at lest know how to read & write, he write from Right to left or from East to West.. cuz he is A-Siamite/Shemite or Asian