D-VHS HD Recording sources: How to record ANYTHING you want to D-VHS in HD!
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- Опубліковано 17 лют 2022
- So the hardest thing to research about DVHS has been how to record something in HD over that kooky Firewire interface that constitutes the only HD input. After years of owning my decks and doing research I finally found a way...Heck I found 4 and at least half of them are REALLY GOOD. Now fellow DVHS owners can make their own HD DVHS tapes from whatever source they want.
I've started a facebook group dedicated to the D-VHS format. If this format is your thing your invited to join! / 989664288631989
Sorry for the hiatus, this took a long time to film properly and even longer to edit.
The Samsung SIR-T165 tuner also supports converting Firewire to component or VGA video (you can see it in action on my channel). If you want to watch the tapes in HD cheaply, any PC with a Firewire card and VLC Media Player can view the tapes (The VCR shows up under capture devices). Windows has built in drivers for DVHS playback (the same used by HDV camcorders). MPEG2 Transport Stream over Firewire is a well defined and supported standard.... thankfully.
Also, JVC should've also introduced D-VHS-C, a digital variant of the Smaller VHS-C cassette, to compete with Digital8 and MiniDV, but with A LOT of advantages over the other competing digital videotape formats, such as instant clip selection and access, like what started to appear on the Non-Tape video camera formats such as the DVD and SD Card or even Hard Disk Camcorders, but on Digital VHS Tape. Plus you can delete footage, unlike DVDs, and more easily than Digital8 or MiniDV! D-VHS-C will have time and date information digitally encoded onto the tape from the Camcorder, and each time you record a clip, it can additionally encode a finalization code at the end of a clip you finished recording and save that clip as a video file onto the tape (something that Digital8 and MiniDV were probably or mostly incapable of doing). And, it lets download videos to your computer from either USB or Firewire, as opposed to dubbing or capturing video from Digital8 or MiniDV. But, you would still need an adapter to play the tape of course, but the adapter would be modified with the additional holes that indicates the VCR has a D-VHS cassette inserted. IF you were to put the analog VHS-C or S-VHS-C cassette into an adaptor for the D-VHS-C cassette, the VCR will think that the tape is digital, but will have trouble playing it back, so if it reads the analog tape as digital, it automatically ejects cassette adapter from the VCR, since the formulation isn't compatible. It would do the same if you put a D-VHS-C Tape into an adapter for the Analog VHS-C or S-VHS-C tapes.
It's an interesting idea, but it wouldn't have been implemented exactly that way.
D-VHS is an HD MPEG-2 stream they probably wouldn't have implemented it as files instead of the stream as that may not have maintained compatibility with home decks.
Also all home D-VHS decks I've seen supported S-VHS and VHS recording...Whats more most D-VHS decks had menu settings that would allow you to record VHS or S-VHS signal onto a D-VHS tape. It was IMO a waste of a D-VHS tape to do that, but the decks would let you do that. The extra cassette holes for S-VHS and D-VHS are ignored on playback, and the deck uses the data on the control track and video tracks to determine how the tape was recorded. S-VHS tape and D-VHS tape have different formulations of the magnetic media which require different levels of signal and recording bias to optimally record to. The extra holes on the cassette are to tell the deck's recording circuits what recording bias the tape needs to make the best recordings.
An additional example that illustrates that the cassette notches are ignored on playback is S-VHS-ET which was something newer S-VHS decks had that allowed them to record S-VHS signal onto a normal unmodified VHS tape...You could pop the resulting normal VHS cassette shell with S-VHS signal recorded onto it into any S-VHS deck (as well as regular VHS decks with SQPB which stands for S-vhs Quasi-PlayBack) and it would play back properly as a S-VHS tape despite not having the extra hole....I know this because a decade ago I was STILL time shifting with 4 different S-VHS-ET decks to get the best combination of cheapness and recording quality I could.
The Motorola cable box I had in 2005ish had firewire. I used it to record HD video from my mediacenter pc
Looks even better in OLED tv
I've been considering this and have a few thoughts and questions myself. For about $175.00 I've found a -through- box that will allow one to record straight HDMI from a source (like Roku, Fire Sticks etc.) that are popular with gamer's as such; but they're limited to single event recordings as you mentioned. Me, that's not really a problem as such unless it's a long event (like a sporting event). But about that 'removing the copyright protection' thing you mentioned? What was it exactly....you recommended?
Also, have you considered using a remote Hard Drive (even a non mechanical one) instead of a flash drive? Lastly, the file size used to be restricted and limited on these 'through' boxes per event. As such, unless one could re-write the code to change that or..... create a separate record auto device (i.e. a device that'd manipulate the RECORD FEATURE button [ending one recording and beginning another automatically]) that'd be one way to extend a Recorded Event. Optionally (which would require an additional 'through box') would be to stagger the recording of one and then the second to 'over lap' the event.... just saying. Or to your knowledge...have they over come this....? Thanks.
The Copy Protection remover is a HDMI splitter (1 input -> 2 Outputs) View HD is the brand I have been using. I have 2 of them and both will remove copy protection. The one shown is technically an HDMI matrix (4 in -> 2 out)...Which is basically a splitter and switch combined (It saved me from buying an extra switch box). The one not shown is a simple (1 in -> 2 out) splitter. Both do the job properly.
The Cloner Box will record continuously until the USB memory fills or a timer or manually commanded stop (whichever comes first).
The cloner box will record differently depending on how the drive is formatted. NTFS will give a single file per recording session. FAT32 will split the video into a new file whenever it hits 2GB file size (in 1080P HD that's about every 30 min).
I run mine on FAT32 because I don't like single files over 10GB. There's no loss of Audio/video data when it splits a file into 2 or more files....If you play the split files on a PC with VLC media player (add them all to play list in correct sequence) it'll play back a 4 hour (8 file) recording seamlessly without any indications it's actually multiple files. I believe the Cloner box's internal player will do the same, but I don't use it very often compared to VLC.
Some recordings I archive for my own video library. On those recordings I use video editing software on my PC to merge multiple split video files, remove commercials, and re-encode the video so a 24 minute program takes less than 1GB of space (half the space of the cloner box's original 30min file)...Cable compresses it's video feeds so much I could probably shrink my file sizes to half a GB and not increase compression artifacts beyond the ones the cable co bakes into their own feed.
The end result of editing the cloner box files is usually a perfect copy of a, show, sporting event, etc. (minus commercials) using less than half the space of the files the cloner box made.
There's 2 reasons I'm not doing the external hard drive thing. #1 Cost and risk. #2 The box appears to prefer smaller drives.
#1 SSDs of large enough size to allow over 4 hours a day for a whole week (which is my problem definition) are a lot more than $20, and if the cloner box bricks one like it did some of the brands of thumb drives I've tested that's a LOT of money on something that just got bricked. I have tried spinning disc drives (had one laying around) but that didn't go well.
#2 From what I have seen the Cloner box I have does not like media bigger than 32GB. I have a second 64GB USB stick (identical to the 32GB Lexar drive that it records perfectly to), but that 64GB stick it won't record perfectly to (there'll be audio and video glitches once or twice per-half hour). I also have a 128GB version of that Lexar drive and it doesn't work with it at all. So I've been sticking to 32GB drives to prevent recording glitches.
Been recording 1080i with 5.1DD, should have a video somewhere under my profile with my older setup
Do your units make noise when powered off? I recently purchased a JVC HM-DH5U and it makes noise when powered off, but functions properly. I'm concerned it may be a faulty unit.
The only sound mine makes when off is the built-in cooling fan doing it's job. I believe your model has a different mechanism than mine so non-fan noise may or may not be normal on yours (I don't know). I wish I could find a nice cheap HM-DH5U or HM-DH100U to get HDMI output from these (I've contemplated buying mechanically broken ones just to use as a Fire-wire to HDMI converter for my other decks).
If you want a DVR for OTA TV, a $20 box will record the original transport stream onto your media of choice connected via USB. It will also spit it out as composite for a VHS VCR.
Nah, What I wanted was a way to time shift our local cable which is 100% encrypted QAM and could only be tuned on a rented cable box. An ATSC box won't tune encrypted QAM, or record the HDMI output of those cable boxes.
We dumped cable (mostly because of their encrypted QAM box rent scam) a few months after this video came out. Most of what I watch is now through ROKU since local OTA doesn't have much programming I care about.
@@tomcarlson3913 I don't have cable, but was able to capture a Hollywood movie from HDMI output of my BD player using a box sold as a game recorder. Also, there are HDCP strippers out there.
@@ConsumerDV I've been able to do the same. Though the capture device I've been using has poorer timer features than a VCR and tends to corrupt it's own USB media periodically (multiple times a year)...Having D-VHS has been an upgrade in features and reliability over the newer capture solutions.
I can transfer only about 22 min from my older pc with Win XP on it, to my dvhs player, im confused why cannot loner :(. Im using DVHS Tool on windows.. BTW, what is very good cable box or similar thing to transfer video from Pc to DVHS?
If you have software that works well for sending video out over FireWire to a D-VHS deck a cable box is unnecessary. (I haven't had time to experiment with software solutions yet.) A cable box alone won't work... You'll need an ATSC modulator with HDMI input and a ATSC tuner box (most Satellite boxes and some cable boxes have them) with FireWire output. If you don't have software for video over FireWire, but have a graphics card with DVI, display port, or HDMI output (all 3 use the same signal standard so you can get cheap dumb cables from internet vendors with HDMI on one end and display port or DVI on the other end) you can feed that to an ATSC modulator and do what I did in the video. I haven't had a cable box worth recommending but, there was a company that modified cable and sat boxes to work with D-VHS. Their website was 169time.com IIRC the website is gone but the archive.org wayback machine has archived it. If you look it up on the wayback machine you can look up models they modified and use that as a guide to search ebay and other places for modified units.
The ADVC HD50 is a HDV box, HDV is only 1440x1080 anamorphic not compatible with D-VHS 1920x1080, Here is the spec for the HD50:
HDV Mode 1 (720p): 1280 x 720/59.94p, 1280 x 720/50p
HDV Mode 2 (1080i): 1440 x 1080/59.94i, 1440 x 1080/50i
Mode 1 happen to be one of the D-VHS compatible resolutions.
Thank you! THAT explains why it doesn't work with D-VHS...And gives me ideas what to look for going forward.
Directv.went to mpeg 4 compression early on in their hd.offerings. Not sure if your rca would support that.
This is far too old for MPEG4. DirecTV hasn’t used MPEG2 for about 15 years.
This is far too old for MPEG4. DirecTV hasn’t used MPEG2 for about 15 years.
That looks like a whole lot of trouble. For recording HD to tape I'd rather just use W-VHS and component video. For digital non-tape recordings I can recommend some of the TiVo boxes, either the Premiere or Roamio generations. They record premium cable shows fine (with a CableCard) and have analog outputs with full aspect ratio options, making them useful for older TVs as well. They also support a few streaming apps as well, including UA-cam. I'm probably the only person who can say their first experience with the Netflix app was on a 1940s TV.
Unfortunately the older Premiere does not support the "HDUI" menu if in 4:3 mode (but Roamio does) so you lose out on a few features including the streaming apps. There's a trick to get HDUI running in 4:3 mode but I don't know if apps will work correctly if doing so. I've been meaning to try this for a bit and now I have even more reason to do so. If it works I'll make a video on it.
There are some other things to watch out for with TiVos such as monthly vs lifetime and HDUI vs Hydra but there's plenty of info about that online.
I'd probably use W-VHS too if I could find a working deck for under $200. I bought my 2 D-VHS decks, all their accessories (including 2 bankers boxes of tapes), and enough vintage stereo equipment to recoup my investment as a $220 bundle.
I'm not a big fan of Tivo boxes...Granted I've only ever played with their SD models so they may have gotten better or worse since the used ones I had were made. They all need an expensive subscription (unless you find the right used one), and your video is on a hard drive with a proprietary format. So you can't digitally copy files to back things up (you also can't swap another generic drive in and have working again), and if the HDD fails that's the end of it's contents...That's kinda a deal breaker for me.
You could just use an HDMI splitter and a down converter to feed your vintage sets and get around menus disabled at low resolution. This D-VHS recording workaround also gave me my preferred solution for down converting HD to SD that I discuss in this video ua-cam.com/video/hKjt3x4WtWU/v-deo.html
@@tomcarlson3913 I'd say TiVo has gotten better since then. With the network functionality you can transfer shows as long as the copyright flags are not too high. Since you said all your shows are flagged it probably wouldn't meet your needs. If you have one capable of recording ATSC signals those will always be transferable. Although at that point you may as well get a $40 ATSC recording box.
I don't actually have a W-VHS deck but I do know somebody with two poorly functioning decks I could probably have. With basically no documentation available it probably wouldn't be an easy fix, and even then I wouldn't have any tapes for it.
Back to the TiVo it is possible to replace and upgrade the drives with community-developed software, and the newer ones will even initialize new drives without any fuss. If you happen to come across one for cheap with the lifetime service it's definitely worth getting.
have you tried streaming services with it? or it doesn't work?
I only have ROKU and PC for streaming and I absolutely can record them to D-VHS. With the method in this video I can also make 1080i D-VHS personal backup copies of my small collection of HD-DVD and Blu-Ray movies if I want to. I run the HDMI outputs of all those sources through an HDMI matrix which strips off HDCP (a HDMI splitter box does the same and is very cheap compared to most of the devices shown) before feeding the matrix's HDMI output to the ATSC modulator to ensure no copy protection signals reach the ATSC modulator. I don't know if the modulator would work the same if I removed the matrix(or splitter) from the signal chain and allowed HDCP copy protection signals into the ATSC modulator or if those signals would get passed along via ATSC and reach and stop the D-VHS deck from recording (if I had to guess I would think the ATSC modulator would ignore HDCP and strip it off before transmission as it has to transcode it's HDMI input to the ATSC 1.0 Mpeg2 transfer stream), but I'm now curious my self...If you got that string of tech jargon, and want me to try direct feeding my Roku and or DVD player into the ATSC modulator without the matrix/splitter and see if that changes the D-VHS deck's ability to record it I'm certainly game (read that "I'll test it, if asked, and report back...Possibly in video form").
@@tomcarlson3913 This is only available restricted for North America NTSC/ATSC! What to use in Europe for PAL/DVB-T and DVB-T2?
@@Renak036 The short answer is you'll probably need to do some research and experimentation to get a solution.
There's 3 possible avenues I can think of for performing HD D-VHS recordings in Europe off of your DVB standards.
1.) Take a current production DVB reciever with HDMI output and feed it's HDMI output into an ATSC modulator and feed that to an ATSC tuner that feeds the D-VHS deck. (As I understand it 1080i/p and 720P were created as international standards and in HDMI form should work with TVs of all regions.)
2.) If they made DVB tuners (or satellite tuners with onboard DVB tuning) that had firewire/ilink/HDV/(how many other trade names can one connector possibly be known by) output to connect a D-VHS deck to, then tracking down one of those would be a cheaper and simpler solution than number 1....However I do not know how D-VHS years as an actively sold format corresponded with DVB's existence in the market, thus I don't know if such a product existed.
3.) Get a DVB tuner USB dongle for your computer and a firewire adapter and figure out the right software configuration to pass the HD stream to the D-VHS deck.
For standard definition PAL over DVB things could get interesting if your D-VHS deck was designed for the NTSC regions of the world...If that's the case then for solution 1 you're either going to have to force the HDMI output of the DVB box to upscale to 720P or 1080i to record 576? PAL, or your going to have to get an HDMI to composite AV adapter with PAL/NTSC switch and select NTSC and feed it's output to the D-VHS deck composite inputs (it might be better just to get a PAL market S-VHS VCR than use NTSC composite video).
For solution 2 hopefully the DVB box can both feed firewire to the D-VHS deck, and take the firewire data playback from the deck and convert it back to video...Technically the firewire line on a D-VHS deck is just a data line and the D-VHS deck is just a data recorder so you can store any kind of file that is within the max file size of a tape's memory....You can use a D-VHS deck as a tape backup drive for your PC if you are so inclined and have the patience to figure out the right software methods. That said solution 3 depending on how you configure the video data stream to the D-VHS deck may be only watchable be connecting the D-VHs decks firewire to a PC and decoding the data stream on the PC, and even if the deck can internally convert a digital HD recording to video it might struggle on a digital PAL recording.
I can not guarantee any of this will work (some of my ideas for my local sources didn't turn out as I expected), but if I were to be moved to Europe and sufficiently incentivized to stay there the above 3 methods would be the first things I would look into.
Can they play W-VHS?
AFAIK no D-VHS deck ever supported W-VHS playback. Not even the JVC HM-DR10000 early D-VHS decks which were basically the case and mechanism from a JVC/Victor HR-W5 W-VHS deck reworked with different electronics and possibly heads to make it a D-VHS machine.
Most D-VHS decks can only play and record D-VHS, S-VHS and VHS.
I really wish D-VHS decks did support W-VHS recording and playback so I don't have to keep searching for a W-VHS deck and tapes for my tape formats collection.
I'm looking into D VHS and see what kind of recordings I can get using component cables instead of Fire wire.
Unfortunately there's no component input on any D-VHS deck. Only the D-THEATER D-VHS decks have component output which is for playback only. The only HD capable recordable input on D-VHS decks is FireWire... Except for JVCs last D-VHS deck which had a built in ATSC tuner it could record from too. To record component video to D-VHS deck you pretty much have to convert it to FireWire or ATSC.
Now if you want a device that can natively record HD component video look for W-VHS which is an analog HD format....It's rarer and more expensive than D-VHS is in North America though.
@@tomcarlson3913 Just how expensive is W VHS?
@@gamepad3173 I haven't been keeping up with the W-VHS market (I probably should be keeping up since I want one). The only real one one I could find on eBay just now was $820....VS D-VHS where a entry level working D-THEATER deck can be had in the $200-350 range if you wait for a good deal. Obviously since these are all used machines, where you buy them matters.... They're extremely hard to find at an in person vendor like a thrift store, surplus store, estate sale, etc but if you happen to find one (buy a lotto ticket that day) with a seller who doesn't know what it is you can get them for a tiny fraction of that.
@@tomcarlson3913 Yeah, because I've been eyeing a JVC 30000U on ebay going for $500.00 but on the off chance I could consider the 40000U as well also by JVC. as far as recording over firewire goes, I think it would be easier to use a firewire to USB cable.
Is there anyway to get a HD quality footage on a VHS camera?
If you mean a consumer grade VHS camcorder, no there is not. The only HD capable VHS tape formats (D-VHS and W-VHS) were not offered in camcorders as far as I know. It is possible to take the HDV output of an HD camcorder of some other format, connect it to home use D-VHS deck and dub the video of the camcorder to D-VHS...Some people used this setup for editing HD footage 20 years ago.
There were professional broadcast HD tape formats based on the VHS tape shells, such as D-9, that were probably offered in professional broadcast camcorders...If that interests you, you'll need to do your own research for more information on that.
Also HD capable VHS formats will not yield the 'VHS look' of VHS and S-VHS tapes if you're hoping to make some kind of hardware effects filter.
@@tomcarlson3913 thanks…I just want to make a short film with a VHS camera…and submit it to film festivals…but then at film festivals the resolution needs to be 2K or HD for the large format screen that they use for screening films. A VHS film will probably pixelate. That is my apprehension and so was looking for a solution.
@@asapfilms2519 Pixellation usually is the result of over compression in the digital codec, poor analog to digital conversion, and or poorly done resolution up scaling. Careful choice of equipment and file types can avoid this. There's plenty of TV shows that survive on tape formats of equivalent performance to VHS that, while somewhat blurry compared to HD, still look fine otherwise...If the tape looks fine in the analog domain, but looks bad in the digital domain then the conversion was not done properly.
If someone told me to make a film on an analog VHS camcorder that would look good on an HDTV/projector I'd try to find an S-VHS camcorder and one of the high end JVC S-VHS decks with a built in TBC for video noise cancellation, then figure out an optimal digitization solution...As someone who intends to keep his analog equipment alive as long as I draw breath I can say that while I have working solutions for digitization I haven't needed them enough to invest the time to pick a favorite.
@@tomcarlson3913 thanks man that’s a great help.
@@tomcarlson3913 Hi Tom, thanks for the previous advise. Just discovered D-VHS and D Theatre. Was there a camera that used DVHS Tapes and we could get better resolution…
I am interested in D-VHS
Hi
Interesting topic and video but please invest in a tripod! The shaky video was difficult to watch and your sound level getting louder and softer throughout the video was also very distracting.
I actually did have and partially used a tripod for part of this video...I don't have enough floor space (especially adding the table the VCRs and boxes were on for shooting the video) to really use one effectively in the room I keep my HD-CRT Sony (my only HDTV). You'll love my videos after the RCA KCS-47 as my only tripod capable camera broke and since then everything has been shot on a smartphone by hand...I've had zero equipment budget so my solution to that camera busting was to get a smartphone tripod mount for Christmas...
Component video isn't just for CRTs. What even are you talking about. Also if the video LTT put out is anything to go by some D-Theater releases were mastered far better than their blu-ray counterparts.
I don't recall ever saying component video is only for CRTs, nor do I believe that statement. What are YOU talking about? Granted component video inputs on new flat panel sets has been mostly absent for several years now.
Also this video is not about D-Theater, so I'm not sure why you're pulling that in to the conversation. D-Theater was a good format. I made this video because some D-VHS VCRs do not support D-Theater, and some D-VHS deck owners for various reasons may want to record content of their own choosing on to D-VHS tapes...I certainly did, and with how much time money and effort I had to invest figuring it out I thought it would be a good process to document in this video.
Hey that cassette hold twice data than first Blu-ray.
50gb in VHS is nice idea, it would work long time if producers wanted.. you cannot do "anything" for copying problem and they still fight for that thing. So it then killed that industry and rental movies too. Piracy usually just grow, when companies made good products to bad with copy-protected systems those bugged, lagged and goes bad some way and dosen't stop Piracy. So people's who was real customers, paid all that "protection sh17".. good technology faded out of use too soon, again and again..
I'm just glad HDMI has stuck around long enough for proper HDMI HDCP workarounds to be cheap and easily obtainable. Firewire devices other than PCs that properly support firewire HDV seem to be a rare commodity these days.
At this point one could easily dub out plain D-VHS copies of D-Theater films by taking the HD component video output of one deck and feeding to a component to HDMI converter and then feeding that to the signal chain described in this video.
What the hell is fire wire?
Lol. IEEE 1394 aka fire wire. Apple didn't think USB was good enough circa Y2K and was pushing fire wire as an alternative. It had some advantages over USB at the time in data rate and other capability that made it a better fit for a consumer digital video applications and it became the basis for DV which every camcorder had for around a decade and HDV which D-VHS uses. Partially because of DV FireWire was one of the few apple connector standards that became common on non apple PCs for about a decade.
@@tomcarlson3913 whatever!
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