Wow! One of the best serve analysis I've ever seen; especially regarding Roger Federer! Your breakdown was excellent (especially your analogy re slicing off a third of the ball) and tantamount to a forensic analysis. My only regret is that I no longer play, because I would certainly benefit from this outstanding presentation. Kudos for a great video! This made my day! Life's simple pleasures... right?
Glad you enjoyed it Alan. I try and make my videos easy to understand with visuals and analogies. I only wish you could practice these techniques. I'm happy to hear the video made your day:) All the best! JF
The best serve video I have ever seen, possibly you have a very fast frame video recorder to make possible to the viewer see what is happenig betwwen the racket and the tennis ball prior to hitting, that will help me a lot, I have been looking for many years to find a video as good as yours. Thank you very much
So interesting to see the extensive detail to explain Federer’s kick serve, and people coming to think it’s a video to teach them how to create the energy Federer does. Honestly, the fitness, body awareness, core, hip and scapula stability and control you have to have are really the places people need to start. Trying to copy Federer or pro players serve without a decent level of fitness is going to give you a stress injury!
When it comes to skill and perfection its Roger no one can match his silken smooth rhythm with his serve..One can sit all day and watch this genius in action..U won't teach the kid with any other tennis player to copy the style..its RF..synonym of perfection...
Great video and great analysis of one of the most effective and accurate serves of all time. Federer was quite unique the way he was up on his toes, and the way he crunched his abs while lifting his knees at contact. Most pros have their legs almost fully extended at contact.
Slicing off part of the tennis ball is the exact analogy needed to describe this serve contact. If the ball hits the net, then start carving lower on the ball.
The slow motion biomechanics of a professional tennis serve is a thing of beauty; the next closest thing is watching a pitcher throw a perfect strike from 60 feet 6 inches.
EXCELLENT ANALYSIS AS ALWAYS JOHN!! YOU STRESSED THE MAJOR CHECKPOINTS OF WHAT MAKES ROGER'S SECOND SERVE SO GREAT, AND WHAT US REC REC PLAYERS CAN INCORPORATE INTO OUR SERVES!! 👏👏👏👍👍👍🎾🎾
Watching Fed & playing Nintendo tennis, it looks so simple! Fed & Mario/Luigi (on Nintendo) - they’re Pros 🤣 accomplishing feats mere mortals must practice to emulate.Thx for the video lesson.
Great succinct analysis ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ from Whisper Landing into the court is important Not finishing your serve action halfway to the service line when you are not serve volleying or wandering all over the baseline is also important. I don't think I've seen a single UA-cam video that emphasises the landing position of the serve, and from the majority of coaching outcomes I've seen, nobody seems to care that much. Good video though. Keep up the good work.
I'm glad you enjoyed it. I will be creating another video of Federer's serve from the back view. It unveils a lot about the stroke. Thanks for your support! JF
Tim, I have super slow motion (240 fps) of Federer's serve and several other pros in the this video. Hopefully this helps! Thanks for your support! JF ua-cam.com/video/_oCyoGLL0S8/v-deo.html
@@topspintennis Thanks very helpful video 👏 I was also wondering about the essential difference between his or ( the , in general ) kick serve and first serve ? I really like your calm in depth approach , well done 👍
I wish that you had also showed that kick serve in real time, both close-up, and full court, to get a real time feel of it. As well as to see the real time result at the other end of the court. Thank you for the analysis.
Haha.. That's so cool! Totally my favorite player of all time who did not have a killer forehand. I was just watching a video on his kick serve before this! A tennis coach was telling me how he saw someone on a court with Edberg who was acting a little arrogant or something - disrespectful.. I don't remember. But this coach of mine was there and said that Edberg then hit a kick serve that bounced so high the guy couldn't get his racket on it at all. To have seen that up close I would have paid real money!
Great video, can you make a video how he manages to change ball tragectory I mean one of those infinite parabolas that he tries and comes out of his swing...
The trophy pose while on tip toes is not a position Roger works at to get into position for any of his servers , rather if you look carefully, really carefully, he is smoothly ducking under his racquet by bending his knees and arching his back...bending ones knees and arching backward automatically puts one up on ones toes. This move (sometime mislabelled -knocking off the party hat) brings the elbow forward and the butt of the racquet pointing up towards the ball. I worked endlessly to get into the trophy pose to no avail. Eventually, I replaced this methodical check point 1, check point 2, check point # ...with a smooth duck under.
I never realized the chain of movement between the left arm, left shoulder, right shoulder and right arm until watching this. I had been just swinging my right arm.
Louis, it's amazing how slow motion footage exposes so much of the swing. I'm glad you found this to be helpful. Thanks for your comment and support! JF
Excellent analysis. Suggestion for future video: The difference between a flat serve wide to the Deuce corner and a slice serve wide to the Deuce corner. To be clear both serves are to the same target, wide to the Deuce corner. I am aware that the slice serve will bounce more to the server's left than the flat serve. The strings, at contact, will be pointing to the same direction on both serves (i.e. the ball always goes wherever the strings are pointing during the three milliseconds contact). But not clear on the other differences. Maybe slow motion will help show the differences in swing path and the differences, if any, during the three milliseconds of contact. I will often hit a flat serve to the Deuce corner and it will bounce mostly straight ahead and I will also hit a slice serve to the Deuce corner that pulls the returner way off the court. But it is all by accident; cannot do it with intent.
Aleph, in case that you do not know it, you can see this video with a very good slow motion just cliking on the gear shown at the bottom of the video, you can slow the motion up to 4 times slower
I liked the video. The service second service is very very important. Very useful. I would like to see a video to improve my attention on the ball and eye coordination. I once saw in a tournament that the player was with the coach doing some exercises in which the coach threw the ball at him and the player grabbed it with his hand. I think that's what I'm talking about. What other exercises can be done to improve my focus on the ball?. Thanks for your videos.
Noted! Where did the coach toss the ball from? I guess I'm not sure what your question means. When I release my toss I am watching the ball (the bottom of the ball) the entire time. Where are you losing focus? Thanks for your comment! JF
Good video. to improve, it would be good to have a back view too. From the back, we would see the toss is more inline with his head at contact and not off to the right. Toss is in front too but for kick serve, it is more back to 12 o'clock or even toward 11o'clock. And, we would see the angle between hand and contact would be like this slash \ where the hand is outside or to the right of contact. This hand to racket angle allows the racket head and strings to move up as well as across and the upward moving strings impart the topspin. All the great kick servers get the hand outside or to the right of contact for topspin. Watch a video of Sam Stosur's kick serve from the rear and she has an extreme hand to contact angle.
Great point. Let me see if I have footage of Federer from behind. Thanks for your comment and suggestion! I love your insight, these types of comments and tips are exactly what the channel needs! JF
For me the toss has to be above the head, not out in front. Otherwise it goes long. Many great kick servers arch or extend their spine, during ball toss and up to contact. Not much of that from Fed.
Yes, absolutely. It's the only way you are able to keep the ball into the court when hitting "up" to the ball and with so much racquet head speed. Thanks for your comment! JF
I find it strange the feet only are mentioned in the end of the video. There are two methods, Done right both are equal efficient, amateur level players tend to only push up with the only the front leg leaving the back leg dangle which is cause for major back problems. For most the wide stance with the back leg sliding forward creating one solid push off with both legs does not straining the back as much. Creating forward momentum to land inside the court.
I personally use a platform stance but I agree when it comes to momentum into the court the pinpoint stance is more effective. Thanks for your comment! JF
Hi, nice video. I have a question on the point of contact - isn't his arm still bent at contact? It's hard to see from the angle of the video, and obviously the arm is moving very fast. If the arm was completely straight at contact, wouldn't he get more of a slice?
James, no...his arm is completely straight. On the second serve the contact point is technically a little lower since the pros are adding "topspin" to the shot. I am currently working on a video on "How to develop more feel and control on the Kick Serve." More to come! JF
Great analysis, thank you, but this looks like Federer's slice serve, not his kick serve. Am I looking at it wrong? I would be grateful if the viewers or the owner of the video could give an answer.
It's definitely a Kick Serve. You can tell by the racquet head drop into the slot entry and vertical nature of the swing path. Look where Roger finishes on his follow through, it's clearly to the side of his body. Thanks for your comment! JF
Selam videonuz ve cevabınız için teşekkür ederim. sanırım haklısınız. Daha dikatli bakınca görülüyor. videonuzdan ve cevabınızdan çok istifade ettim. tekrar teşekkür ederim.@@topspintennis
Hello, thank you for your video and answer. I think you are right. It can be seen if you look more carefully. I benefited greatly from your video and answer. Thank you again.@@topspintennis
Great question. He doesn't OPEN his shoulders and hips up to the court as much. By staying "sideways" longer he is able to ACROSS the ball, imparting more spin on the ball. Thanks for your question! JF
When I played junior I asked my tennis instructor to teach me the kick serve and he didn't want to. As an adult I had another tennis instructor and he always used an excuse not to teach me the technique either. Any reason for them to do this?
I feel the biggest reason is lack of knowledge and how to teach the stroke. Another reason can be to avoid injury. I’ve seen people who have crack vertebrae because they arch their back too much and use poor technique. Thank you so much for your question and support!
I still wonder how Roger can brush up the ball for a kick service if his arm is fully stretched at impact and the ball is directly coming down after he hits the ball. This looks more like a flat service. Where am I mistaken? Thks for yr video anyway! ArtM
I would say that his toss arm moves back “past vertical” to allow his head/neck to remain slightly rotated to the left to continue to sight the ball. It also gives a little hip push to the left to allow contraction of the oblique to aid in the upper movement when he moves past the racquet drop. Additionally, he is still over 6’ tall and probably hitting the ball at 9’, so the ordinary joe will NOT hit the ball down into the court...trajectory will be UP.
I think because it is so much slower in speed compared to harder hit slice or flat serve. I do use my kick serve on my first serve a lot in doubles. Thanks for your comment! JF
harika analiz teşekkür ancak bu federer in kick servisine değil slice servisine benziyor ben yanlış mı bakıyorum seyredenler veya video sahibi bir cevap verebilirse memmun olurum
It's actually his Kick Serve. We filmed this in 2014 courtside at the Western and Southern open. You can see it's a kick serve by his racquet path and finish. Notice how he finishes on the right side of his body. Thanks for your comment! JF
It's definitely his kick serve; we filmed the serve in Cincinatti in 2014. You can tell by his racquet head drop, the vertical path to the ball and finish to the side of his body. Thanks! JF
The left arm doesn’t tuck in. Keep the left arm pointing to up and flip the whole body over the left shoulder. Record your self and do a comparison. This is what most coaches got completely wrong.
Hmmmm, I didn't really get how this was different to how a first serve or slice serve might be from just this video. Apart from maybe the hitting the ball up. Great technique analysis though.
The swing path and contact point are really the two elements that are different on the kick serve. The grip may adjust slightly as well. I am currently working on a video on "How to develop feel and control on the Kick Serve." I will instruct on these two elements and hopefully make it clearer for you. Thanks for your comment! JF
Parker, I'm sorry you think so. Sometimes it's best to just watch, go ahead and MUTE me, the video may be more enjoyable that way.😂 Take care and thanks for your comment! JF
For kick serve, Federer moves the front leg to little side ways and forward position just before the toss, a quarter to half feet. He dies this to move sideways. No youtube coaches in the world noticed this till now. 😂
I only wish I could serve like Federer:) Here's a video I did on the Kick Serve and how to get good feel and control - ua-cam.com/video/7e961eqvC3s/v-deo.html
Thanks for this great analysis John. Your 240 fps also makes visible what is happening with his racquet face. It's parallel to the baseline at the bottom of the drop, on edge just before contact (thumb down), parallel to the net when it contacts the ball (thumb sideways inward), and then fully pronated (thumb sideways outward) while it is still above his head. Since contact is inside the baseline and the follow through starts behind the baseline, his racquet must be moving away from the net after contact. It seems like the only way to do that is to externally rotate the whole arm from the shoulder socket from the moment of contact. Body leans in, arm and racquet go back with palm facing the back fence. Check out this Fed serve practice video from Tennis Analysis at 5:55, 7:55, 8:25, and 9:08 to see the incredible left to right movement he can get in the ad court. ua-cam.com/video/lUnv67NLSZU/v-deo.html. Is that even possible without the full pronation?
The video you reference is really good. The kick serve he hit at 9:08 he actually missed but he did have a lot of action on it. He does pronate on the serve...all great servers do this really well. Thanks for your comment! JF
Federer's serve is impeccable, like any shot in his technical repertoire. The current tennis trend is not that of these types of players, unfortunately, they are too complex to teach and require that they have a lot of talent. Today it's more interesting to teach a game technically more sober and consistent, looking above all for the no-mistakes looking for the topspin for greater security and if I have a winning forehand much better (the clay court style to understand each other, which is what they have promoted since twenty years ago more or less) . The result is that all the players play to do the same, and the toughest, the most fierce and the one with the most ball "in", not the one with the most tennis from a technical point of view. Very boring for me. I miss that contrast of baseliners game-net game styles in the time of Mcenroe-Lendl, Sampras-Agassi, or even Edberg-Becker because the German was such a complete player that he could play from the baseline with great shoots too. It's my opinion, and I understand that not everyone may like it.
Most amatuers attempt to get that amount of coil and fail because they cant do it. Most pros dont even get that much. I dont suggest any amatuer toss on the baseline nor coil that much. Just toss forward like most pros. Its similar to how people think if you whip the forhand like Nadal ull get a Nadal forehand.
Max, great observation....the majority of players aren't able to fully accomplish a Federer Like coil. What they can do is be aware of the coil and work on improving it. I always like to show the pros because they are for the most part the most efficient. Thank you for your comment! JF
It’s unfortunate you can’t appreciate the great footage and how it can help so many people. I learned a lot from watching the pros. I have videos on the serve with me as the player, take a look at those and hopefully they will help. Thanks, John
Wow! One of the best serve analysis I've ever seen; especially regarding Roger Federer! Your breakdown was excellent (especially your analogy re slicing off a third of the ball) and tantamount to a forensic analysis. My only regret is that I no longer play, because I would certainly benefit from this outstanding presentation. Kudos for a great video! This made my day! Life's simple pleasures... right?
Glad you enjoyed it Alan. I try and make my videos easy to understand with visuals and analogies. I only wish you could practice these techniques. I'm happy to hear the video made your day:) All the best! JF
The best serve video I have ever seen, possibly you have a very fast frame video recorder to make possible to the viewer see what is happenig betwwen the racket and the tennis ball prior to hitting, that will help me a lot, I have been looking for many years to find a video as good as yours. Thank you very much
@@topspintennis Thanks for responding JF, and for your kind wish that I could benefit from these techniques. Keep up the great work!
hope u be happy
Love the slow motion video and the lines you drew to really demonstrate his impeccable form
So interesting to see the extensive detail to explain Federer’s kick serve, and people coming to think it’s a video to teach them how to create the energy Federer does. Honestly, the fitness, body awareness, core, hip and scapula stability and control you have to have are really the places people need to start. Trying to copy Federer or pro players serve without a decent level of fitness is going to give you a stress injury!
When it comes to skill and perfection its Roger no one can match his silken smooth rhythm with his serve..One can sit all day and watch this genius in action..U won't teach the kid with any other tennis player to copy the style..its RF..synonym of perfection...
You are correct.....thousands of reps over time pay off! JF
Contact point above left ear keeps the racket slightly angled forward promoting the correct swing path. Fed just absolutely nails the fundamentals.
Great video and great analysis of one of the most effective and accurate serves of all time. Federer was quite unique the way he was up on his toes, and the way he crunched his abs while lifting his knees at contact. Most pros have their legs almost fully extended at contact.
When I played I always did this . Must coach often to still know this.
I'm more of clinics so thanks
Slicing off part of the tennis ball is the exact analogy needed to describe this serve contact. If the ball hits the net, then start carving lower on the ball.
The slow motion biomechanics of a professional tennis serve is a thing of beauty; the next closest thing is watching a pitcher throw a perfect strike from 60 feet 6 inches.
They are somewhat similar but have the similar objectives with their relationship to the ball. Thanks for your support! JF
Fabulous Video and Analysis, John!
Thank you kindly Rick! I'm glad you are enjoying the videos! JF
EXCELLENT ANALYSIS AS ALWAYS JOHN!! YOU STRESSED THE MAJOR CHECKPOINTS OF WHAT MAKES ROGER'S SECOND SERVE SO GREAT, AND WHAT US REC REC PLAYERS CAN INCORPORATE INTO OUR SERVES!! 👏👏👏👍👍👍🎾🎾
Glad you enjoyed it. Thanks for your comment and support! JF
Deux professionnels n'ont en réalité pas la même façon de servir vert good viideo. Thank U
I'm glad you enjoy them! Merci! JF
Watching Fed & playing Nintendo tennis, it looks so simple! Fed & Mario/Luigi (on Nintendo) - they’re Pros 🤣 accomplishing feats mere mortals must practice to emulate.Thx for the video lesson.
So true, so fun to watch. Federer was an Artist on the court. One of my favorite players to watch! JF
Great succinct analysis
⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ from Whisper
Landing into the court is important
Not finishing your serve action halfway to the service line when you are not serve volleying or wandering all over the baseline is also important.
I don't think I've seen a single UA-cam video that emphasises the landing position of the serve, and from the majority of coaching outcomes I've seen, nobody seems to care that much.
Good video though. Keep up the good work.
I'm glad you enjoyed the video. Thanks for your comment and rating! JF
great analysis!
Thank you, Thank you and Thank you! JF
Excellent observations. This is the hardest shot to learn. I will be watching all your videos.
I'm glad you enjoyed it. I will be creating another video of Federer's serve from the back view. It unveils a lot about the stroke. Thanks for your support! JF
Very good video. Thank you for sharing!
Muchas gracias por el video. Cómo se extraña a su majestad!!!!
Denada, muchas gracias tamben! JF
Nice video i will try this in tennis court..thanks
Did it work? Thanks for your comment! JF
Great analysis, I would like to see the last bit of the pronation and follow through if possible ?
Tim, I have super slow motion (240 fps) of Federer's serve and several other pros in the this video. Hopefully this helps! Thanks for your support! JF
ua-cam.com/video/_oCyoGLL0S8/v-deo.html
@@topspintennis Thanks very helpful video 👏 I was also wondering about the essential difference between his or ( the , in general ) kick serve and first serve ?
I really like your calm in depth approach , well done 👍
I wish that you had also showed that kick serve in real time, both close-up, and full court, to get a real time feel of it. As well as to see the real time result at the other end of the court. Thank you for the analysis.
Let me see if I can video of the kick serve from the angle you requested. Thanks! JF
Very nice, i use this as my basic for learn kick serve
Thanks for the video 🔥🔥
Might have mentioned that one of the alltime great kickservers, Stefan Edberg, was standing next to Federer on the baseliine.
Great observation Anders! JF
Haha.. That's so cool! Totally my favorite player of all time who did not have a killer forehand. I was just watching a video on his kick serve before this! A tennis coach was telling me how he saw someone on a court with Edberg who was acting a little arrogant or something - disrespectful.. I don't remember. But this coach of mine was there and said that Edberg then hit a kick serve that bounced so high the guy couldn't get his racket on it at all. To have seen that up close I would have paid real money!
Fantastic shot
Great video, can you make a video how he manages to change ball tragectory I mean one of those infinite parabolas that he tries and comes out of his swing...
Yes, I have it on my list. Thanks for your comment! JF
Awesome... love the analysis! Thanks!
My pleasure! JF
The trophy pose while on tip toes is not a position Roger works at to get into position for any of his servers , rather if you look carefully, really carefully, he is smoothly ducking under his racquet by bending his knees and arching his back...bending ones knees and arching backward automatically puts one up on ones toes. This move (sometime mislabelled -knocking off the party hat) brings the elbow forward and the butt of the racquet pointing up towards the ball. I worked endlessly to get into the trophy pose to no avail. Eventually, I replaced this methodical check point 1, check point 2, check point # ...with a smooth duck under.
Excellent content
Glad you think so! I appreciate your comment! JF
Excellent presentation! Federer's shoulder rotation and leg alignment impact all later stroke mechanics.
I'm glad you enjoyed it Edward. I agree, the technique is really good, his placement and control were even better. Thanks for your comment! JF
Great explanation. Thanks!
I never realized the chain of movement between the left arm, left shoulder, right shoulder and right arm until watching this. I had been just swinging my right arm.
Louis, it's amazing how slow motion footage exposes so much of the swing. I'm glad you found this to be helpful. Thanks for your comment and support! JF
Perfection
I agree, one of the best! JF
Excellent analysis. Suggestion for future video:
The difference between a flat serve wide to the Deuce corner and a slice serve wide to the Deuce corner. To be clear both serves are to the same target, wide to the Deuce corner. I am aware that the slice serve will bounce more to the server's left than the flat serve. The strings, at contact, will be pointing to the same direction on both serves (i.e. the ball always goes wherever the strings are pointing during the three milliseconds contact). But not clear on the other differences. Maybe slow motion will help show the differences in swing path and the differences, if any, during the three milliseconds of contact.
I will often hit a flat serve to the Deuce corner and it will bounce mostly straight ahead and I will also hit a slice serve to the Deuce corner that pulls the returner way off the court. But it is all by accident; cannot do it with intent.
Great video, very learnable, thanks!
Glad it was helpful! Thanks for your support! JF
Genius thx!
Glad it helped and thanks for your support! JF
Great analysis thank you! Could you post the raw slowmo video as well? Would love to see the motion from start to finish
Sure thing! I have it in my notes to show Federer's Kick Serve in Slow motion! JF
Aleph, in case that you do not know it, you can see this video with a very good slow motion just cliking on the gear shown at the bottom of the video, you can slow the motion up to 4 times slower
Great analysis. Thank you.
My pleasure! I'm glad you enjoyed it. More videos to come! JF
I liked the video. The service second service is very very important. Very useful. I would like to see a video to improve my attention on the ball and eye coordination. I once saw in a tournament that the player was with the coach doing some exercises in which the coach threw the ball at him and the player grabbed it with his hand. I think that's what I'm talking about. What other exercises can be done to improve my focus on the ball?. Thanks for your videos.
Noted! Where did the coach toss the ball from? I guess I'm not sure what your question means. When I release my toss I am watching the ball (the bottom of the ball) the entire time. Where are you losing focus? Thanks for your comment! JF
Great job video.
Glad you enjoyed it, more videos to come! JF
Good video. to improve, it would be good to have a back view too. From the back, we would see the toss is more inline with his head at contact and not off to the right. Toss is in front too but for kick serve, it is more back to 12 o'clock or even toward 11o'clock. And, we would see the angle between hand and contact would be like this slash \ where the hand is outside or to the right of contact. This hand to racket angle allows the racket head and strings to move up as well as across and the upward moving strings impart the topspin. All the great kick servers get the hand outside or to the right of contact for topspin. Watch a video of Sam Stosur's kick serve from the rear and she has an extreme hand to contact angle.
Great point. Let me see if I have footage of Federer from behind. Thanks for your comment and suggestion! I love your insight, these types of comments and tips are exactly what the channel needs! JF
For me the toss has to be above the head, not out in front. Otherwise it goes long. Many great kick servers arch or extend their spine, during ball toss and up to contact. Not much of that from Fed.
couldn't imagine his shoulders and hip stayed sideways during the hit. this explains the accuracy. i thought his power comes from rotation.
It's amazing how slow motion video gives away so many secrets. Thank you for comment and support Roy! JF
Thx!
No problem! JF
Thank you for the analysis. What would mention about his follow-through?
So is the racquet face closed at the point of contact? Is the top edge of the racquet in front of the bottom edge when he makes contact with the ball?
Yes, absolutely. It's the only way you are able to keep the ball into the court when hitting "up" to the ball and with so much racquet head speed. Thanks for your comment! JF
Awesome
I'm glad you liked the video. More to come! JF
I find it strange the feet only are mentioned in the end of the video. There are two methods, Done right both are equal efficient, amateur level players tend to only push up with the only the front leg leaving the back leg dangle which is cause for major back problems. For most the wide stance with the back leg sliding forward creating one solid push off with both legs does not straining the back as much. Creating forward momentum to land inside the court.
I personally use a platform stance but I agree when it comes to momentum into the court the pinpoint stance is more effective. Thanks for your comment! JF
Excellent description. Thank you!
Glad it was helpful! Thanks for your support! JF
Very good! Great analysis.
Thank you Carlos, I'm glad you enjoyed it! JF
Hi, nice video. I have a question on the point of contact - isn't his arm still bent at contact? It's hard to see from the angle of the video, and obviously the arm is moving very fast. If the arm was completely straight at contact, wouldn't he get more of a slice?
James, no...his arm is completely straight. On the second serve the contact point is technically a little lower since the pros are adding "topspin" to the shot. I am currently working on a video on "How to develop more feel and control on the Kick Serve." More to come! JF
Superb video, very usefull for learning. Are you planinig to do the same for a Flat serve?
excellent. thank you
Glad you liked it! Thanks for watching and your support! JF
I think you should film the serve from three angles
I love it. I will do this! Thanks, JF
LOVELY
Great analysis, thank you, but this looks like Federer's slice serve, not his kick serve. Am I looking at it wrong? I would be grateful if the viewers or the owner of the video could give an answer.
It's definitely a Kick Serve. You can tell by the racquet head drop into the slot entry and vertical nature of the swing path. Look where Roger finishes on his follow through, it's clearly to the side of his body. Thanks for your comment! JF
Selam videonuz ve cevabınız için teşekkür ederim. sanırım haklısınız. Daha dikatli bakınca görülüyor. videonuzdan ve cevabınızdan çok istifade ettim. tekrar teşekkür ederim.@@topspintennis
Hello, thank you for your video and answer. I think you are right. It can be seen if you look more carefully. I benefited greatly from your video and answer. Thank you again.@@topspintennis
Perfect!
It is a thing of beauty!
Thank you very much very professional very understandable very usable thanks a lot thanks a lot again I'm very appreciate for you explanation
Great video! What editor do you use to scroll back and forth?
I use Power Director, it's a great editing software!
@@topspintennis Thank you!
Thank you
You bet, thanks for watching! JF
good stuff
I'm glad you enjoyed it. More content to come! JF
What does he do differently than his normal first serve can you please tell difference
Great question. He doesn't OPEN his shoulders and hips up to the court as much. By staying "sideways" longer he is able to ACROSS the ball, imparting more spin on the ball. Thanks for your question! JF
Thank you so much! Really great!
You're very welcome! I'm glad you enjoyed the video! JF
When I played junior I asked my tennis instructor to teach me the kick serve and he didn't want to. As an adult I had another tennis instructor and he always used an excuse not to teach me the technique either. Any reason for them to do this?
I feel the biggest reason is lack of knowledge and how to teach the stroke. Another reason can be to avoid injury. I’ve seen people who have crack vertebrae because they arch their back too much and use poor technique. Thank you so much for your question and support!
nice commentary. thanks for the video.
Glad you enjoyed it! Thanks for your support kick serve! JF
I still wonder how Roger can brush up the ball for a kick service if his arm is fully stretched at impact and the ball is directly coming down after he hits the ball. This looks more like a flat service. Where am I mistaken? Thks for yr video anyway!
ArtM
Awesome breakdown! Thank you!
Le relâchement est exceptionnel dernière image capsule pédagogique Thank U
From the little French I know I think I should say Thank You or Merci! JF
I would say that his toss arm moves back “past vertical” to allow his head/neck to remain slightly rotated to the left to continue to sight the ball. It also gives a little hip push to the left to allow contraction of the oblique to aid in the upper movement when he moves past the racquet drop. Additionally, he is still over 6’ tall and probably hitting the ball at 9’, so the ordinary joe will NOT hit the ball down into the court...trajectory will be UP.
Thanks for your insight Osnosis! JF
Kick serve is mostly used for second serve,considering it is effective, why don't we try it for 1st serve??
I think because it is so much slower in speed compared to harder hit slice or flat serve. I do use my kick serve on my first serve a lot in doubles. Thanks for your comment! JF
harika analiz teşekkür ancak bu federer in kick servisine değil slice servisine benziyor ben yanlış mı bakıyorum seyredenler veya video sahibi bir cevap verebilirse memmun olurum
It's actually his Kick Serve. We filmed this in 2014 courtside at the Western and Southern open. You can see it's a kick serve by his racquet path and finish. Notice how he finishes on the right side of his body. Thanks for your comment! JF
second serve
Thanks for your comment! JF
Oh my god it’s tough
I agree! JF
great, thanks.
No worries! Thank you for watching and your support! JF
Curious if RF is using an Eastern BH grip on his serves.
Great analysis, thank you, but this looks like Federer's slice serve, not her kick serve.
It's definitely his kick serve; we filmed the serve in Cincinatti in 2014. You can tell by his racquet head drop, the vertical path to the ball and finish to the side of his body. Thanks! JF
Much easier to kick to ad court. I find it very difficult to hit that serve to deuce court
I would agree with you. Thanks for your comment! JF
The left arm doesn’t tuck in. Keep the left arm pointing to up and flip the whole body over the left shoulder. Record your self and do a comparison. This is what most coaches got completely wrong.
Hmmmm, I didn't really get how this was different to how a first serve or slice serve might be from just this video. Apart from maybe the hitting the ball up. Great technique analysis though.
The swing path and contact point are really the two elements that are different on the kick serve. The grip may adjust slightly as well. I am currently working on a video on "How to develop feel and control on the Kick Serve." I will instruct on these two elements and hopefully make it clearer for you. Thanks for your comment! JF
@@topspintennis Great stuff. Thanks for your reply! Look forward to more great content :-)
impractical and complicated explanation
Parker, I'm sorry you think so. Sometimes it's best to just watch, go ahead and MUTE me, the video may be more enjoyable that way.😂 Take care and thanks for your comment! JF
Kick back for my idea.
For kick serve, Federer moves the front leg to little side ways and forward position just before the toss, a quarter to half feet. He dies this to move sideways. No youtube coaches in the world noticed this till now. 😂
Haha, great observation! Good work! JF
New rule for tennis: "Server must have both feet on the ground behind the line at completion of the serve."
That would make things interesting! I love it! JF
thanks
please work on the voice to be louder
My apologies, I am doing that with my videos moving forward. Thanks for letting me know! JF
Even from an Ariel view, to Four perspectives. Give me Lock
a kick back if you use my idea.
Can you serve like this or just talk
I only wish I could serve like Federer:) Here's a video I did on the Kick Serve and how to get good feel and control - ua-cam.com/video/7e961eqvC3s/v-deo.html
3:30
Land inside the court. This is the best tip for all service shots
Thanks for this great analysis John. Your 240 fps also makes visible what is happening with his racquet face. It's parallel to the baseline at the bottom of the drop, on edge just before contact (thumb down), parallel to the net when it contacts the ball (thumb sideways inward), and then fully pronated (thumb sideways outward) while it is still above his head. Since contact is inside the baseline and the follow through starts behind the baseline, his racquet must be moving away from the net after contact. It seems like the only way to do that is to externally rotate the whole arm from the shoulder socket from the moment of contact. Body leans in, arm and racquet go back with palm facing the back fence. Check out this Fed serve practice video from Tennis Analysis at 5:55, 7:55, 8:25, and 9:08 to see the incredible left to right movement he can get in the ad court. ua-cam.com/video/lUnv67NLSZU/v-deo.html. Is that even possible without the full pronation?
The video you reference is really good. The kick serve he hit at 9:08 he actually missed but he did have a lot of action on it. He does pronate on the serve...all great servers do this really well. Thanks for your comment! JF
Actually, the ball he tossed is inside the baseline.
It starts inside the baseline but if you look at the contact point the ball is in the court. Thanks for your comment! JF
Correct.
Most rec players attempt to toss straight up when in fact the path of tossed ball is an arc.
NOVAK GOAT 🏆
This man loves to look at his own face.
Not really, it's not that all impressive!:)
Anyone, So Federer really doesn't hit flat serves most of his serves
Federer's serve is impeccable, like any shot in his technical repertoire.
The current tennis trend is not that of these types of players, unfortunately, they are too complex to teach and require that they have a lot of talent. Today it's more interesting to teach a game technically more sober and consistent, looking above all for the no-mistakes looking for the topspin for greater security and if I have a winning forehand much better (the clay court style to understand each other, which is what they have promoted since twenty years ago more or less) .
The result is that all the players play to do the same, and the toughest, the most fierce and the one with the most ball "in", not the one with the most tennis from a technical point of view. Very boring for me.
I miss that contrast of baseliners game-net game styles in the time of Mcenroe-Lendl, Sampras-Agassi, or even Edberg-Becker because the German was such a complete player that he could play from the baseline with great shoots too.
It's my opinion, and I understand that not everyone may like it.
not a fan of people who explain how to do kick serve without them doing their own demonstration on how they do it.
I created this video a few years back Better FEEL and CONTROL on the Kick Serve
ua-cam.com/video/7e961eqvC3s/v-deo.html
Thanks for your comment!
Holy Schmitt! Could you have chopped up the video any more ?????
Should have run a slow motion loop; that would have been much better!
Check out this link of Federer's serve and a few other ATP pros - ua-cam.com/video/_oCyoGLL0S8/v-deo.html
Thanks! JF
@@topspintennis 😉 much better - TY
At 6:00 Roger is hitting a flat serve not a kicker
Why does he stay sideways
Most amatuers attempt to get that amount of coil and fail because they cant do it. Most pros dont even get that much. I dont suggest any amatuer toss on the baseline nor coil that much. Just toss forward like most pros. Its similar to how people think if you whip the forhand like Nadal ull get a Nadal forehand.
Max, great observation....the majority of players aren't able to fully accomplish a Federer Like coil. What they can do is be aware of the coil and work on improving it. I always like to show the pros because they are for the most part the most efficient. Thank you for your comment! JF
Nice Video Buddy.But it be nice if you stop pausing the movement every split second.
Sorry about that. If you want continuous super slow motion video visit this link - ua-cam.com/video/_oCyoGLL0S8/v-deo.html Thanks! JF
Useless when he had 40-15, he didn't imply his great second serve there!😡
Please don’t use someone work to make money use your own serve
It’s unfortunate you can’t appreciate the great footage and how it can help so many people. I learned a lot from watching the pros. I have videos on the serve with me as the player, take a look at those and hopefully they will help. Thanks, John
It almost looks like a flat serve ...
That's what some observers would call it but he has a tremendous amount of spin on the serve. Thanks for your comment! JF
@@topspintennis the biomechanik of this exactly serve example is just crazy - you just can not see how this would put a top spin on the ball...
Great work. Thanks.
Glad you liked it! More videos to come. Thanks for your support! JF