Vital is going next level with Mike at the helm. Been needing a guy like him that can pick upon new changes implemented right away, in the media. Can tell he knows about every aspect of the sport.
@@zeke458 I left for around three years. For some that follow our channel and sight, who are newer, haven’t seen me before and even some who been around a longtime may have not known I was gone.
been doing this modification for years on tz250's, rd350 race bikes etc for years. I'm surprised it's not been done on a motocross bike before. great mod for keeping temperature under control and will add about 1hp on a 125gp bike but obviously more during a race when excess temperature is causing a power loss .
Should be added why it improves cooling. The waterpump isn't related to engine RPM anymore while an electric waterpump can spin on full speed all the time. Increased flow means better cooling. It's obviously a bit of a trend now and we'll see if they really keep it on the bikes. It's certainly a performance gain, but it makes virtually no sense to get one for non-factory bikes, as they usually produce less heat by lower RPMs, lower compression ratio, less aggressive cam lobes etc. Very interesting nevertheless!
Furthermore it can be controlled by the ecu via temp sensor feedback to also regulate engine temp by slowing down or speeding up flow to keep it at the optimum temp for torque or power output
Is it total loss with a lithium battery? Otherwise the drag is just in another form. I like the idea you get full flow even when rpm drops but could you get equal cooling with a larger rad?
I think it would maybe help a little. But i would question the reliability of the electric pump over mechanical. Not saying it couldnt be reliable but is the risk worth the gain if there is any at all. Honestly even for a track bike and the average weekend warrior i dont think this would be the best modification. Especially because theres only a small small population of riders who could actually benefit to the hp increase. I know my yzf 250 has all the power i could ever need. But hey if they prove this to be as reliable or more reliable as mechanical and make it either stock or easy to install then it would be great
Sounds like a good idea my only concern would be if the motor for the electric pump were to burn out you would be in trouble. The mechanical pump is more reliable but who know.
I need one on my K7 750! Not for power, but for better cooling. It's fine on back roads, but as soon as I hit a set of traffic lights well, she don't like sitting there idling after a little "spirited riding"...
I can see the benefits, but as an enduro/trail rider I'd be worried about it failing due to the electrics (rock/stick/water/electrical gremlin) and me not knowing - I would think mechanical would be less likely to fail instantly. For a pro bike that gets stripped regularly it isn't an issue but not for me.
You’re not wrong, but they will likely improve packaging to solve some of those concerns. Most of my riding is harescrambles these days and this could be a game changer imo.
Sorry, but I would disagree. Regardless of your riding use, water pump failure of any kind is noticed by water spewing out the radiator. 99% of mechanical water pumps and hoses are low and outside the engine. If you could remove the whole system and put a small pump near the center of the bike, it would have less chance of damage from "stuff". These small electric pumps work for years on cars with almost no failures. Then can also run full speed when the engine needs cooling, not just when spinning the engine fast. Great idea. Should have been done years ago.
Yea just have to reiterate what all the comments state STELLER job on the reporting Vital MX. IT was not some 24-36 hours ago i saw photos of external electric water pumps and went HMMM but could not go further. A+ guys, good job.
For competition you gotta do what you must. For general weekend riders save your money. I'm new to mx riding however I run a pro car shop. Fad mods are mostly plecebo or unused by the average users
Would be nice to them develop better packaging for this. It needs a durable design in a location that doesn't obstruct other components. find a space where it can live ... where the pumps housing, hoses and wiring harness can safely exist and function as a whole to improve cooling and power ... and you will have every manufacturer scrambling to add this to their bikes.
If you watch carefully the video shows 3or 4 different pumps and mounting locations. If your not racing at the highest levels this is probably useless as 99 percent of us don't use the power the bike has
This will probably end up on future bikes anyway, assuming we stay with internal combustion. I don't think the average pro needs one right now, let alone every joe schmo
Michael can you look at non works suspension as in kit forks and price range etc for a privateer please. The water pump looks interesting and if a fan will need to be run outdoors etc.
It's prob an expensive upgrade.what I want to know is it on constantly when bike is running is it activated on a switch to help cool it between motos.while it's sitting on a stand.does it flow more fluid or just faster flow.alot of questions.
@@MichaelLindsay yes, and ideally you could reroute the coolant lines to just the base of the cylinder (depending on engine design) and reduce coolant capacity and weight by a few ounces alone.
I’m concerned about selling this to the general public! Adding the risk of electric failure to the only part that keep your engine from melting in a hot motocross race is a bad idea considering a lot of people can’t afford a four stroke engine rebuild but I’m impressed by all the ideas/innovations we see in the mx world these days
Probably and this is a really wise power upgrade for a racing team, I don’t say that it’s not a good idea but this sport become so much more expensive each year passing and this is the reason we see less people riding
Notice he dodged the question if the regular guy really needs that, instead his greed showed by his answer being, "people want them so we'll HAVE to start making them".
This is the works stuff that needs to be used more to develop better bikes faster. Besides that it's cool too. This guy who started this bet get a patent fast.
What did we do here? Get into the realm of thinner cylinder walls on this scooter? If I am another team I am wondering, how are you building so much heat that it became a problem while others aren’t saying they have had to seek alternative temp resolution measures? Perhaps it’s all just a story. Package and sell, but before I buy I need the data on temperature reduction levels from speeding up the flow inside a closed loop system. Same hot water simply moved faster does much? It would seem air flow improvements at dissipation points (and/or increasing dissipation surface area) are still where the biggest progress can be made in temp reduction. This screams we are battling big bore temperature concerns and found progress at idle speeds, or we’re playing with something to sell. Unless you buy into impeller drag and seal friction improvements being a big enough power improvement reason to run one of these while the massive crank seals and huge clutch basket bathing in oil are still 99.9999999% of the drag. Did I mention the countershaft seal?
Cool, sounds like a easy power boost! No wonder friese got 2 HOLESHOTS. I knew he wasn't that good! Wend backwards each time. Just glad we didn't see DIRTY VINCE.
On a 250, everything you can get to race at the top level. Years ago, stock 250s were making around 34-35 HP. Now a stock bike is around 39-41 HP and teams are stetrching them to 51 HP.
xprmotorsportsparts.com/
Vital is going next level with Mike at the helm. Been needing a guy like him that can pick upon new changes implemented right away, in the media. Can tell he knows about every aspect of the sport.
He’s been with vital
@@zeke458 I left for around three years. For some that follow our channel and sight, who are newer, haven’t seen me before and even some who been around a longtime may have not known I was gone.
Yes ran a team but now he's like top dog over there running the show
@@MichaelLindsay wow! Didn’t realize you were gone that long. I’m sure they’re happy to have you back.
been doing this modification for years on tz250's, rd350 race bikes etc for years. I'm surprised it's not been done on a motocross bike before.
great mod for keeping temperature under control and will add about 1hp on a 125gp bike but obviously more during a race when excess temperature is causing a power loss .
What model pump do you use?
I’ve always liked Mikes breakdown of technical stuff Ping also
Should be added why it improves cooling. The waterpump isn't related to engine RPM anymore while an electric waterpump can spin on full speed all the time. Increased flow means better cooling.
It's obviously a bit of a trend now and we'll see if they really keep it on the bikes. It's certainly a performance gain, but it makes virtually no sense to get one for non-factory bikes, as they usually produce less heat by lower RPMs, lower compression ratio, less aggressive cam lobes etc.
Very interesting nevertheless!
Furthermore it can be controlled by the ecu via temp sensor feedback to also regulate engine temp by slowing down or speeding up flow to keep it at the optimum temp for torque or power output
Being outside the engine surely having the air run past it, it would make the pump itself cooler aswell???
I could see this being a huge huge gain in harescramble and enduro
Is it total loss with a lithium battery? Otherwise the drag is just in another form. I like the idea you get full flow even when rpm drops but could you get equal cooling with a larger rad?
It's not total loss.
Wonder if this would help with trail bikes that run low rpm in technical terrain and battle with over heating. Radiator fan and electric water pump..
Probably not as much since coolant cools by airflow.
@@caydenthompson126 That's why I included "Radiator fan and electric water pump" I think the combination would work.
@@TepcoCycleRepair maybe
I think it would maybe help a little. But i would question the reliability of the electric pump over mechanical. Not saying it couldnt be reliable but is the risk worth the gain if there is any at all. Honestly even for a track bike and the average weekend warrior i dont think this would be the best modification. Especially because theres only a small small population of riders who could actually benefit to the hp increase. I know my yzf 250 has all the power i could ever need. But hey if they prove this to be as reliable or more reliable as mechanical and make it either stock or easy to install then it would be great
@@RandomUser2388 We'll have electric bikes before all the OEMS decide to put electric water pumps in their bikes lol
Sounds like a good idea my only concern would be if the motor for the electric pump were to burn out you would be in trouble. The mechanical pump is more reliable but who know.
I need one on my K7 750! Not for power, but for better cooling. It's fine on back roads, but as soon as I hit a set of traffic lights well, she don't like sitting there idling after a little "spirited riding"...
I can see the benefits, but as an enduro/trail rider I'd be worried about it failing due to the electrics (rock/stick/water/electrical gremlin) and me not knowing - I would think mechanical would be less likely to fail instantly. For a pro bike that gets stripped regularly it isn't an issue but not for me.
You’re not wrong, but they will likely improve packaging to solve some of those concerns. Most of my riding is harescrambles these days and this could be a game changer imo.
Sorry, but I would disagree. Regardless of your riding use, water pump failure of any kind is noticed by water spewing out the radiator. 99% of mechanical water pumps and hoses are low and outside the engine. If you could remove the whole system and put a small pump near the center of the bike, it would have less chance of damage from "stuff".
These small electric pumps work for years on cars with almost no failures. Then can also run full speed when the engine needs cooling, not just when spinning the engine fast. Great idea. Should have been done years ago.
Yea just have to reiterate what all the comments state STELLER job on the reporting Vital MX. IT was not some 24-36 hours ago i saw photos of external electric water pumps and went HMMM but could not go further. A+ guys, good job.
For competition you gotta do what you must. For general weekend riders save your money. I'm new to mx riding however I run a pro car shop. Fad mods are mostly plecebo or unused by the average users
Plenty of fads on peoples cars
@@sexatica exactly and mostly uneeded
Would be nice to them develop better packaging for this. It needs a durable design in a location that doesn't obstruct other components. find a space where it can live ... where the pumps housing, hoses and wiring harness can safely exist and function as a whole to improve cooling and power ... and you will have every manufacturer scrambling to add this to their bikes.
If you watch carefully the video shows 3or 4 different pumps and mounting locations. If your not racing at the highest levels this is probably useless as 99 percent of us don't use the power the bike has
This will probably end up on future bikes anyway, assuming we stay with internal combustion. I don't think the average pro needs one right now, let alone every joe schmo
Michael can you look at non works suspension as in kit forks and price range etc for a privateer please. The water pump looks interesting and if a fan will need to be run outdoors etc.
It's prob an expensive upgrade.what I want to know is it on constantly when bike is running is it activated on a switch to help cool it between motos.while it's sitting on a stand.does it flow more fluid or just faster flow.alot of questions.
Without watching the video I'm guessing the extra power is from the bike motor not having to spin the impeller and push coolant?
Does it add weight in correlation to the mechanical? Interesting pathway.
A little bit, but not as much as you'd probably think. You are also removing a few parts inside the engine.
@@MichaelLindsay yes, and ideally you could reroute the coolant lines to just the base of the cylinder (depending on engine design) and reduce coolant capacity and weight by a few ounces alone.
Very nice!
I’m concerned about selling this to the general public! Adding the risk of electric failure to the only part that keep your engine from melting in a hot motocross race is a bad idea considering a lot of people can’t afford a four stroke engine rebuild but I’m impressed by all the ideas/innovations we see in the mx world these days
Don't be silly. These pumps come from the automotive industry. I'm willing to bet this pump will outlast a mechanical pump...
Probably and this is a really wise power upgrade for a racing team, I don’t say that it’s not a good idea but this sport become so much more expensive each year passing and this is the reason we see less people riding
Notice he dodged the question if the regular guy really needs that, instead his greed showed by his answer being, "people want them so we'll HAVE to start making them".
This is the works stuff that needs to be used more to develop better bikes faster. Besides that it's cool too. This guy who started this bet get a patent fast.
Where do I get one
sick
Electric waterpump outside of the Engine Nice 👍🏻 more hoses that can break and start leaking thats what we all needed
What did we do here? Get into the realm of thinner cylinder walls on this scooter?
If I am another team I am wondering, how are you building so much heat that it became a problem while others aren’t saying they have had to seek alternative temp resolution measures?
Perhaps it’s all just a story.
Package and sell, but before I buy I need the data on temperature reduction levels from speeding up the flow inside a closed loop system. Same hot water simply moved faster does much? It would seem air flow improvements at dissipation points (and/or increasing dissipation surface area) are still where the biggest progress can be made in temp reduction.
This screams we are battling big bore temperature concerns and found progress at idle speeds, or we’re playing with something to sell. Unless you buy into impeller drag and seal friction improvements being a big enough power improvement reason to run one of these while the massive crank seals and huge clutch basket bathing in oil are still 99.9999999% of the drag.
Did I mention the countershaft seal?
doesnt need to be on production bikess..just more stuff to break. still cool though
Cool, sounds like a easy power boost! No wonder friese got 2 HOLESHOTS.
I knew he wasn't that good!
Wend backwards each time.
Just glad we didn't see DIRTY VINCE.
It doesn't add any peak HP, just improved mid-range and power curve.
💣
Imagine if they didn't have magnets in the flywheel to produce spark.
Even more power, hmm any engineers out there
I love you guys but how much damn power do you need? Lol
On a 250, everything you can get to race at the top level. Years ago, stock 250s were making around 34-35 HP. Now a stock bike is around 39-41 HP and teams are stetrching them to 51 HP.
@@MichaelLindsay fair enough
So this is proof that Honda still has not fixed the cooling issues on this bike. How many years has this been going on for? Come on Honda!
Cooling hasn't been an issue on the Hondas...this is just a performance mod.
honda shit enginnearing
Electric start, electric water pump…next thing you know, the motor will be electric.
Bingo
With clutch, gears to change either!!
I don't like it. Looks like a reliability issue to me.
Silly!!!!
Makes good horses 🐎 vs mechanical
The bloke looks very stressed
Chad was very busy, I stole him for a few minutes. ha