The Thorian surviving is an interesting theory and I've wondered myself if it could be possible, after all Shepard only "kills" one nervous center. Unfortunately we may never know the truth. Maybe you should speak to Fai Dan, he will know more about it
The only way you're killing that thing is by glassing the planet and killing everyone infected with its spores, then burning the corpses. Nothing short of that would be enough.
Its interesting too because it seems to hold no ill will against shepard. It actively keeps them informed of the colonies status in the fight against the reapers.
In the part, where you talk about the Ardat-yakhsi, the codex literally said that banshee can be created from asari with latent gene, and because asari rarely mate with other asari, there can be ton of them, in one family, and never actually become them. So number of banshees has no impact on number of living Ardat-yakhsi before reaper harvest.
Yea, the devil is in the details. Missing the 'latent' part of that entry really changes things. So many theories across so many fandoms sprout from misheard/misinterpreted bits of lore. Sometimes it is subtle and easy to miss, other times a simple reread/rewatch before mapping out your 17 page theory is advised. Star Wars, Westworld, MCU, Mass Effect, Horizon series and many more all have had theories expanded upon by fans based on a slightly incorrect lore note.
If I’m not mistaken during the Monastery mission you can find some data pads where some Matriarchs are talking about new arrivals on the Monastery, something about the Ardat Yakshi’s annual visit on Thessia and even some Ardat Yakshi talking about watching movies together so technically there WERE other Ardat Yakshi aside from Morinth, Rila and Falere
@@user-ww1gk5ku1w yeah there was more of them. Outside of it being retcon, it can be explained as being a secret, so Samara only knew about her own family members. Another big pointer is, that It would be quite surprising if all of staff that maintained the monastery would be latent carrier of the gene, so we can assume, that probably most Banshees inside the monastery were created from Ardat-yakhsi. But apart from that number of banshees in the galaxy will not give us any information on Ardat-yakhsi population overall.
You missed where Tali herself responds to the "what does Tali's sweat smell like?". During the Citadel DLC, you can find her in the bathroom under the influence of alchohol and she responds, "it just smells like SWEAT, how can you even ask that"
@@grilledleeks6514 And why do you think that is? Do you realize that channels like this are what keep people interested, and that interest is what makes developers remake their games? Seriously, you're not very bright lol
Seriously, you'd think the prothean would be the critical part of the story, and if I was writing the story he would have been. I think finding Javik and using him to unlock secret prothean facilities for a key to beat the reapers would be far superior to the deus ex machina crucible
I think the email reiterating the Thorian is dead was included more for the player to recall who Shiala was and connect it back to Zhu’s Hope. Gotta remember a lot of players probably didn’t play the trilogy back to back when ME3 released
There's no way TIM wasn't indoctrinated as soon as he came into contact with the Shanxi artifact, it gave him husk eyes and visions of reapers. Like he's not changed to full husk-cultists like the others but that second-hand dose of woowoo absolutely influenced him.
I’m inclined to agree. I think part of him did still want to help humanity, but we know indoctrination can be a slow burn and the Reaper’s arrival turned up the heat.
It's only an opinion you express. If you get some of the tech, you are deemed to be indoctrinated whether you realize it or not. Mine is he was indoctrinated but not by the reapers but by leviathan which in turn explains why reapers attack sanctuary once he managed to create the control option. Why ? Because reapers don't leave anything behind which could alert organic about the existence of the cycles and therefore they would not leave behind the shaxi artifact. Only leviathan is studying organics to find a real solution, leviathan AND harbinger who's made of leviathans.
@@silverthehero1295 TIM willing to help humanity is a redhearing. TIM is crafting humanity to be helpful within leviathan's plans. TIM created the human biotics by illegally disseminating eezo contamination pregnants mothers and creating some freeks amongst hundreds of deaths. We are told in the leviathan dlc biotic powers accelerates the rate of mutations and leviathan is trying to find something which could handle the crucible in all the organics harvested by the reapers. TIM created the Normandy twice by stealing ET techs and owning the companies which built both ships. TIM is the one owning the 2 companies which found the Thorian and also the Rachni queen which in turn allow Shepard to find the conduit.
Ever hear the Asari theory? Supposedly the Asari can manipulate brain waves to change how they look to other species, to make themselves look more attractive to specific species and nobody actually knows what they look like. I heard this theory pop up in ME 2 when a Salarian, Turian, and a Human are watching an Asari dancer and each of them found a unique attractive trait specific to their species in the dancer, as if each of them were individually seeing a completely different person.
It isn't true though, it's just a joke about how each species sees an attractive trait that aligns with their own race. There are way too many instances where Asari would be revealed for it to be actually canon, or even possible.
@@therobustempyrean1436 Haha! of course not! But it would be an awesome twist! Picture in ME 4, we break the Asari brain washing and Liara turns out to be a bipedal Insect!
I agree. It would be funny, but it wouldn't, make any sense for it to be true. It would make the Asari not be able to be captured on camera as their ability could possibly affect electronic images and people who had never seen an asari in person before.
As I recall, Samara didn’t say, “They’re ONLY 3 in existence.” I believe she just said, “And they’re 3 in existence today.” Which means she KNOWS they’re are at least three because she birthed them.
Plus the narrated codex clip Dan played literally says that Banshees are made from AY's or asari with AY tendencies. AY's are the result of a genetic disease. We also know that among the asari, pureblood mating seems to be linked to the birth of AYs. AYs are likely the result of a recessive gene. Scores - but clearly not all - asari probably carry the gene. And when 2 carriers mate, they'd probably have a 1/4 chance of producing an AY, a 1 in 4 chance of producing an asari that's not a carrier at all, and a 2 in 4 chance of producing a carrier. Samara was unlucky in that all 3 of her children were AY. It happens. But that would explain how there are so many Banshees in the game if even an AY carrier could become a Banshee.
It is said in a way that makes it very clear, that her daughters are the only known AY and that is clearly retconned in ME 3. They wanted to create a level around her daughters and introduce a new and powerful enemy that shows what the reapers are doing to the Asari.
@@TheGerudan Eh, is it really a retcon? Samara says "as far as I know there are 3", and she hasn't seen her daughters for centuries. There could easily be more AY born before and after her daughters
@@steelbear2063 No, she says that there are 3 in existence and with AY as deadly as they are, it is very obvious, that they keeping close track on them. If there is any Asari who knows how many AY there are, it would be her. Especially would she knowAt the very least she would know that there are more than her daughters at the monastery (which in ME 3 there obviously seemed to have been). In the scene in ME 2 it is clearly meant to emphasis how tragic it is for her and how guilty she feels for even having three daughters knowing the problem and there is 0 reason to believe that the writers meant anything else back then. So yeah, it is a very obvious retcon and it is okay, because it gave us a very cool level and some cool enemies, but no one should try to bend reality to not see it as the obvious retcon that it was. It's not like ME is a stranger to stuff like that . Thermal clips anybody?
I think bioware wrote so many characters and plots, that the writers wouldn't remember everything when questioned on the spot. (Like with the aria thing)
They also mentioned somewhere that they wrote the games in such a way that they could lead plot threads and breadcrumbs around that could lead places, for future games, but also might not and just be fun little details that don't end up going anywhere.
Except that loser was solely an Andromeda writer, he's not a voice to consider relevant to Mass Effect as a whole period when they couldn't qrite for 1 game
Nah it's because all of the original writers were moved to a different project after ME2 which is why subsequent games were lower in quality and consistency
On the Ardat-Yakshi/Banshees thing: In the codex it says active or latent predispositions to becoming Ardat-Yakshi. So what that means is any Asari who carries the gene, even if they aren't one themself. So there really could have only been 3 Ardat-Yakshi, but millions of Asari probably carry the trait latently. Samara is an example of a latent carrier of the trait. She mated with another latent Asari and their offspring was then active due to the dual latent parents. It all fits directly with the pureblood discrimination and the taboo of Asari breeding within their own species. It's because so many Asari are latent carriers. The monastery is likely from a time before they found other intelligent species they could mate with. It needed to be so large to accommodate the number of Ardat-Yakshi that would have existed at that time. Hope that clears up that whole thing for you. It really shows the depth of the Mass Effect lore.
dont forget Samara said "as far as I know" that was not a confirmation of 3 as the number. I doubt she visited. like prob 1-on-1 video chats at most. The way I saw it was like a monastery style mental hospital, with probably at least a 3-1 staff to patient ratio. It's the 1 monastery in the whole universe where they treat these girls. nothing about this feels like a retcon.
You know, about Aria on ME2, there is one more line where she says that "sometimes is better to disappear than be forced to kill someone", pay close attention to her voice when she says "someone", thats intentional, i think this is also conected and also fits with Wrex story, and Wrex is likely to be that "someone". So "Aleena" aka Aria, propared the fight in a way she could dissapear rather than fight Wrex to the death. It all fits. OH, OH, wait a minute, now i realise, this is why Aria want Shepard to come ALONE during her DLC... "i have objections to some of the company you keep".... she cant risk Wrex being onboard the Normady.
The problem with that is that the only reason she had to disappear from Wrex was because he was contracted by a Volus, but that Volus was killed by natural causes before the events of ME1 in the story Wrex tells
Also, Aria really isn't the type of person to care about collateral damage and to fight with honour and respect. Wrex said that Aleena chose some abandoned space station for their battle so there would be no innocent collateral. In both ME2 and ME3, Aria demonstrates that she's more focused on the consolidation of power rather than looking after the people she rules in Omega. In ME3, she actively pushes for Shepard to switch off the life support for an entire district of residents on Omega. The context for that situation was that her and someone she cares about were being overrun by mutant monsters and Shepard had to divert power from different sources (or all the power from one residential district) to release the shield and allow them to escape. It's not unreasonable for her to suggest that, but it does make it difficult to believe this is the same person who wanted to honourably fight in a location with no innocent casualties. In addition to all of that, she actively stripped Patriarch of all of his dignity and when she defeated him and kept him around as a trophy. She took everything that made him strong in the eyes of everyone and degraded him to show everyone what happens when she's crossed or challenged. She's the one who gave him the name Patriarch as a title of mockery and disrespect. She seems much more like the kind of person who'd shoot Wrex in the back than someone who'd agree to fight on even terms in an abandoned station out of a sense of respect and honour.
Fun fakt in the german version of the game the cerberus leader is only refered to as "der Unbekannte" witch roughly translates to "The Unknown Man". Kinde of funny when you ask NPC`s about "The Unknown Man" and they tell you they dont know the Unknown Man or anything about him.
I wish they'd given us the option to kill Rana in ME2. The way I play my Shepard he would have spared her in ME1 but in ME2 it would have been a "fool me once..." type of thing and he would have taken her out.
As someone that has played the trilogy on the 360 an unhealthy amount of time, you absolutely can kill Rana on ME2, though I can't remember for the life of me what are the specific dialogue choices you have to take for that
Regarding Fist's body, I wonder if maybe the dev was right about it being included but wrong about where it was placed. Specifically, it seems to me that given our encounter with Fist in ME2, the most likely place to stumble across Fist's body while creeping around back areas trying to retake a station from Cerberus would be on the Omega during Aria's quest, not on the Citadel during the coup attempt. Just a random thought in the wee hours of the night.
Hey, I was just playing LE3 again and randomly decided to look at Shepard in the "Citadel tunne" - visible scars glowing. used Photomode to take a look at the scar, yellow glow within the red! Yellow is used by Harbinger. Sovereign used Red.
@Big Dan Gaming: Speaking about the return of the Protheans, I have a suggestion for a topic I don't think you have covered yet. In the "Reckoning" multiplayer DLC for ME3 we get the "Awakened Collector Adept" with interesting lore. The Leviathans severed Harbringer's control over the Collectors they encountered, and these survivors went on to oppose the Reapers. It turned out that Javik wasn't the only Prothean "Avatar of Vengeance" out there!
Don't forget the Ilos scientists possibly being sustained by the keepers and sleeping somewhere. Could've been a nice counterweight to the Starbrat plus that Reaper Queen.
After the final showdown with the Archon, when you return to the colony in Andromeda, there are some logs you can read from V. Tethras, telling the player how yours is a story worth telling, etc. I kind of gather that this Easter Egg isn't widely known or not remembered. I could believe that Both universes co-exist together.
for aria being aleena, the guy who said no didn't work on me1-3 so his opinion is null void in my book, i think him saying no is just the response he was told to say if he was asked something that he didn't know about
hard agree, the choices are, believe the guy who wrote ME 1-3 or believe the guy who made a game with 0 connection to the original franchise barring that the 600 year one way trip was started inbetween the events of 1 and 2
Honestly the way to fix Legion for the LE is so simple, they just need to add in an option to start the research on the IFF to the research tab, keep the dialogue the same, but make it a tech tree upgrade, that way players can initiate the crew abduction whenever they’re ready to
I know right, ain't that very suspect for Shiala to turn green after a few years ? The one we meet on Illyum could just be one of her Thorian clones, plain and simple. 😅 About the Protheans' return, there's actually quite a few possibilities. Now that they've found Javik (a living specimen) and probably dozens of stasis pods containing dead ones, a fanatical group of Hanar geneticists could easily clone and recreate Protheans, then give them sacred prothean artifacts to rebuild their society and guide them as a subservient species. Since Protheans can learn things through touch and understand beacons without any issue, a new generation of cloned Prothean wouldn't even need living ones to teach them anything.
Protheans subservient to Hanar, or vica versa? The Hanar could be mad enough to clone their own gods, as long as theyd prefer to serve THEM. It would be a very interesting dynamic, a species that doesnt want freedom and prefers guidance from another.
@@Grivehn yeah, more like some crazy Hanar recreating Protheans to guide them, in my mind. 😅 If they have an opportunity to bring back their gods, why not actually take that shot.
I've had this theory that the Kett, the bad guys from Andromeda, are actually evolutionary decendants of the Protheans. They actually share a lot of similarities culturally, being an empire that assimilates other species (Javik mentioned something like that once, and while he never explicitly said so, it's possible that the genetic mutation the Kett use was part of that process), and it would absolutely make sense for the Protheans to have sent an expedition to Andromeda as well. 50.000 years of evolution might have caused them to look as they do now.
In regards to the Zaeed model, I recently watched the crown and was sure that I was looking at Zaeed. The actors name is Tobias Menzies, and when I saw him on screen I remember thinking “Huh, that guy looks a lot like Zaeed.” He would be my pick for a live action Zaeed.
Hey Big Dan, if you're looking, one small easter egg/reference that I don't know if anyone else has noticed happens with Nihlus on Eden Prime. Basically, Nihlus says his "I move faster on my own line" and then is betrayed by one of his own men(Saren). This is exactly what happens to Willem Dafoe in his role as Sgt Elias in the movie Platoon, so I think it's too much of a coincidence to not be a reference. Though like I said, never heard anyone mention it before lol.
I think that is very plausible. Zaeed Massani has the exact same facial scar as Sgt. Barnes from Platoon so it looks like somebody at BioWare is a fan of the movie haha
There is one thing I'm surprised no one ever paid attention to, what Morinth says during her confrontation with Samara, she says something very disturbing "I'm the genetic destiny of the Asari, But they are not ready to reveal this, so I must die" Notice that she doesn't say "They are not ready for this" or "They can't see this" No, she specifically says "They are not ready to reveal this" Later on the Ardat-Yakshi Monastery you find this Journal: _______________________________________ Jethra, I looked over this year's candidates for supervised visits to Thessia. I'm approving everyone but Yanis. She's impulsive, cunning, and worst of all, a romantic. Find me a worse combination to let outside our walls. (I find it suspicious she was even nominated: let's look into that, and pray it's not Yanis manipulating another infatuation.) It takes a great deal of time and effort to persuade Thessia's government to let our best students visit their own homeworld. Unless Yanis matures, she won't be among them. Matriarch Gallae ______________________________________ This could probably point out that the Asari government have plans for the Ardat-Yakshi and they are preparing them for something. If you think about it, The Justicars - while extremely powerful - are not reliable to do dirty work because their code prevents them from doing so, so on a political level, the Asari command can't rely on Justicars to do their dirty work. The Asari commandos while powerful are not similar to STG for Salarians or as the Specters to the Council. What if the Asari were planning to create their own modified super soldiers so they can do their bidding? it would make sense that since Morinth was on the run for so long that she had sources and contacts and knew something that others did not. And since she didn't trust anyone to reveal that information she chose to die with it.
Morinth tells this because all Asari have the control ability but to a much lesser degree than Ardat-Yakshis. Matriarchs develop an extremely strong suggestion ability toward other organics which explains why they are talented diplomats and Asari in general are able to seduce other species through mental conditioning. Please note leviathan's control power is the same, the exact same as the Ardat-Yakshi. Leviathan created the Asari species. Asari develop the Ardat-Yakshi trait only when mating with other asari which can increase their mental suggestion capabilities but it is not a desired condition hence why they are hunted down.
Playing through the series again, especially in the past year with seeing how geopolitics gets played out in the open, I find the Asari a lot less benevolent than I did the first times around. The Asari remind me a lot of EU-NATO, they put on the benevolent and wise voice-of-reason act, but you have to ignore the fact massive and genocidal wars (Rachni, Krogan) have happened under their watch, they maintain a powerful military of their own (Commandos, Justicars) and an even more powerful puppet military (Turians, later Humans), they have no problem unleashing professional war criminals to do their bidding unaccountably (Specters), and species and systems outside of their sphere of control are treated with relentless disregard and brutality (Quarians, primitive Krogan made into war slaves, Vorcha treated as underclass). To not harp too much on real life examples, isn't it bizarre how the supposed defenders of peace and freedom have fought far more aggressive wars against non threat states than the "aggressive" dictatorships (Russia especially, also China and Iran, and demand those be suborned to them rather than allowing their parallel coexistence? It's probably not intentional, but the Asari give me major bad vibes upon reflection. Bascially, the Asari are a false benevolent mafia -- give them their way or you're going to suffer a lot. Strange how "the good of the galaxy" 9999/10000 translates out to the good of the Asari in practice.
@@Mortablunt I see where you’re coming from about the Asari not being as benevolent as they say they are, and I agree with you. But that’s a shit take trying to compare them to the EU or NATO lmao.
@@bobbywesker6114 It's not necessarily the best take, and I don't really think anyone in Mass Effect maps 1:1 to anyone IRL, which is solid writing from Bioware.
Samara said as far as she knows her daughters are the only ardat yakshi alive today, also it was stated that the Reapers can know if an Asari has the predisposition to become Ardat Yakshi so that they can trigger it before turning them into Banshees.
One weird "plothole" that is never explained is the Arrival DLC plot, where Shepard could be knocked out for 2 days on a station where everyone is indoctrinated, and yet never show any signs of indoctrination after an entire two days near object Rho, and that's AFTER seeing a vision directly from it! Not to mention how the sedatives used to keep them under, suddenly just stops working with no explanation... To me, this is still the weirdest part of 2s story, as it brings up the point, not of how Sheprad got indoctrinated, but how they could possibly NOT be indoctrinated after that long near object Rho with no mental protection or shielding! For how strange this plot is, it's one i have heard surprisingly few theories about...
Shepard is an anomaly, the only real advantage she has is her indomitable will which makes indoctrination very difficult. That’s why the indoctrination theory always sounded like bullshit, all the way up to Thessia we hear that Shepard is not indoctrinated by prothean tech that can actually detect it.
Another fan theory is that the reapers are testing him. The reapers goal is to protect organics. They do this by destroying current organics to make way for new ones. We also know each cycle has a hero. Javick being his cycles. They never directly controlled him but pushed him to the limits and he failed. The fan theory is that the reapers are purposely leaving Shepard alone to see if organics are ready to survive
Him waking up from the sedatives is actually explained at the beginning of ME2 when after being rebuilt they explain sedatives have a lesser effect on him now. For the 2nd thing Shepard is just build different
Also the many times he approached Reapers, their artefacts, or their victim. I also find it weird Shepard could interface with Prothean tech. A cool explanation for this & his exceptional abilities would have been young him stumbling onto an ancient artefact that modified him to grow into an anti-reaper agent.
I'm not a lore expert but don't you need to be around it for a while? I'm going off what Benezia said and indeed that Seran wasn't even completely indoctrinated even by the end of ME1. He had to literally be implemented after Vermire and even then he can break out if it if you have the speaxg chec. That said though, absolutely no one retcons their writing more than Bioware. What was true in Mess Effect 1 was almost certainly not true in ME2 and 3, So it wouldn't surprise me at all if they said that it's a slow process like Benezia and that's how he got away with it (kind of like smoking and cancer) and then in the very same breath have other characters merely look at a Reaper and be indoctrinated. In fact, having said that, didn't Seren get indoctrinated after finding an artifact on an op? So there's an example there. In the game it takes long bouts of exposure but in the comic it's off a single artifact. Basically what I'm saying is as much as I like ME, the writing really isn't as good as what we think so don't think too deeply into Biowares plot holes because we could well be here until an actual real life Reaper invasion by the time we go through all of them
The simple, yet unspectacular reason for why Shiala tells you again about the Thorian´s demise in ME3: Not everybody played ME2, the meeting with Shiala in ME2 is quite irrelevant, more like a cameo and people may not remember it a few years down the line when playing ME3. It´s more a design decision to help the player remember who Shiala even is and less a hint to the Thorian surviving.
I’d guess the Leviathans could be the new antagonists, but I think it’s more likely they’ll become a pariah species evading persecution by the survivors, as the creators - by extension - of the Reapers. I’d love to see an optional arc where you help Javik find all the remaining Prothean technology and bases; it’d be good to see more about the structure of their empire and I’d love it if completing the arc led to finding a hidden facility with surviving Protheans.
10:39 to be fair Samara did say to her knowledge and considering Aria knows about them almost as if she has had some kind of experience dealing with one it definitely suggests that there’s a lot more than Samara’s kids running around.
About the Thorian, I firmly believe that it was implied that it is still alive and hid itself, recuperating. I assume, it did it because it's wary, not just of Sheperd, but also because of the Reaper threat. If the Leviathan themselves fled and hid from the Reapers, then it's safe to say that the Thorian is intelligent enough to understand its survival is under threat.
In ME3 You can overhear a conversation between two Asari on the citadel. They talk about how AY’s are born from two Asaris mating and how they need to kill the rest of them off. So either the reapers bred more or there were actually a lot out there that Samara didn’t want to scare shep with
We also don't know the original homeworld of the Protheans. Also, there's the mystery of the Virtual Aliens that are mentioned to be a race that downloaded their consciousness to a virtual world in order to escape their home system from going supernova. The Galaxy Mod i believe added an interesting side quest called Ghosts of Antilin that give a deep dive on the Virtual Aliens, and to me, it would have made a perfect DLC in place of the very important lore DLCs like Leviathan and From Ashes
I've heard people mention Virtual Aliens before, but despite interacting with everything I encountered and completing every side quest I got, speaking to every NPC I knew of and reading every Codex log I unlocked, I never once got any mention of anything like that. Where did you get the information on Virtual Aliens?
@@TOONYBOY It's from the Cerberus Daily News, an online DLC feature that was in the vanilla Mass Effect 2 game, that was displayed on the main menu, that showed any DLC that was available for the game and in-game universe news.
@@tredausmaxima Kinda sucks they left that out of the Legendary Edition. Same thing with Pinnacle Station, really, even if it is an inconsequential DLC
Dude how did you not mention the entire impetus for the indoctrination theory... Its because if you choose to destroy the Reapers, after the credits, a clip plays of Commander Shepard in the rubble at the base of the relay to the Citadel, where he takes a breath. It's clearly him, given the armor of the chest, and this clip only plays if you chose to destroy the Reapers. If you choose the other two options, ostensibly the Reapers gain indoctrination control over Shepard. That is the one reason the theory even exists. And I don't understand why they play that clip in game if its not true...
"Tali's sweat tastes good." "Support me so I can keep making this content." "Joker and the Illusive Man are Eskimo brothers" What a wild place to sandwich that plug 😂
Hey Dan, Hey everyone! - I wanna admit a sidenote for the following topic, "The Indoctrination Theory": - First of all I would like to thank the creators, that they gave me another perspective, because in the end of Mass Effect 3 (beware Spoilers dear N7s ;)) I was a little upset too. - The Indoctrination Theory contains many... maaaannny things that are kind of conspiracy like and many of them are way too far away from reality in my oppinion. But some are amazing. Just amazing. - I would like to emphasize a few things. - 1.) There are SO MANY coincidences, I just can not believe when Bioware states the theory isn't true. I would personally act a little more conspiracy-like, to be honest, because the coincidences are so crazy. So unbelievable crazy, they just can't be coincidences and "accidentally writing". I mean c'mon^^. Iam sure they just say "this theory is not right" (but in their mind they finish the sentences with kind of "but 80% of it is" or something like that. - 2.) The Starchild is... no I have to start somewhere else. So if you're not into what the Theory contains, ähm try the following perspective: - Imagine that the Crucible Szene, where Shepard decides between Refusal or 3 differnet endings in 3 colors, is kind of a dream. Not a real dream but, it is in Shepards mind. - Now we can start. Houuu I like it so much to talk and write about that :D Allright here we go: 1st of all you have Shepard talking to the Starchild and a very large spot where Shepard is able to move. He can go straight forward to encounter the "green" symbiosis ending. He can go left, for the blue control ending and he can go right for the red destroy ending. - Now keep in mind what you do all the time when you talk to someone as Shepard. When you do, you have a dialogue wheel where you can investigate on the left, make a neutral answer on the right, the bottom is renegade and the top is paragon. Now remember the szene with the starchild. And try to "zoom out" and look at it from a perspective of a bird. You will the the classic Dialogue Wheel. - Now we have the question: Why is RED the renegade ending and blue (good) the paragon one? It is simple in the end. - Your goal is it, in the game, to stop the reapers and your only information is, that you CAN stop the reapers. You can probably destroy them, this is your goal. Since you have the opportunity to do so the indoctrination, that works on Shepard hits a critical spot. The Reapers are trying to indoctrinate you as a gamer. Its a brilliant move, from the developers, they break the 4th wall. When you choose to control, either symbiosis, you got fooled and indoctrinated, because the starchild is trying to convince you that everything is a good idea but the renegade option. And within the whole game all your "evil"/renegade choices are on the bootom right, from the dialogue wheel. So the reapers try to make Shepard think he does something cruel, something renegade and they deliver arguments only against this "red" ending. - So why is the Starchild a child actually. Well in the first scene, even in the trailers of ME3 you can see a small girl, or a small boy playing and fooling around and in the first Mission on earth you "see" the boy on various very strange locations, where noone else ever get a notice of that child. - The Indoctrination, or kind of hallunization begins when the game begins. The Starchild is noone less, then "all the childs shepard would not have rescued", its the child from the beginning. The Child from is dreams. Shepard dreams twice a dream where a forest with "oil shadows" appears and a boy is running away from him". When you remember the rachni Queen in Mass Effect 1, she talks about "oil Shadows" and a blurred view. This matches perfectly with Shepards dreams. - So he is in the middle of an Indoctrination. And the game suggest you, you managed it. You just made it. Problem solved. But. Sorry, but... but: There is only one right answer: Its Red. Renegade, the Destroy Ending unless you don't want to be indoctrinated. - In my oppinion this is a freakin' Masterpiece of Storytelling and I just gave you glimpse of what is all insde the whole Indoctrination Theory. Is lesser a theory. Its more a Gathering ... or collection of facts, you encounter in the trilogy. - Its Fact, that you use the dialogue wheel trough the whole 3 Games. Its Fact, that the child, Shepard sees in ME3, beginning, Anderson does not see, nor notice. Its Fact, that the Rachni talks about Oily Shadows and Shepard got similar dreams. Its Fact, that if you choose the Red Ending, you can get a breathing Chest Ending. Its Fact, that if you choose the Red Ending, Shepard straighten himself up when he decides to move to destroy it. Its Fact, that you have "Deus Ex: Vibes" in the last moments of the game. Never heard of that Options before. The Reapers are in panic mode, they have to stop you at all costs. - In My Oppionion Shepard just stands close to a console, and he is about to push "the one red button". But he can't, because something in his mind just tricks him not to do it. - My newest, personal theory is, that not even the Red ending "really" ends the war. It just ends the indoctrination and the war probably finds a slow end... but... however, this is a topic for another time. First of all I hope I could have give you some more insight within the very very very intersting Indoctrination Theory. :D - If you believe it ore not: I whish you a good time, saving your Galaxies, N7s ;) Cheers
*salutes with her tinfoil hat* Nice day to you too, sir! There are so many more coincidences possibly making writers look much smarter than they really are but hell, it's too good. The entirety of Mass Effect 3 is trippy with the Starchild reappering and just focus on Shepard's detoriating mental state. Also, mind control is a plot device usually used to make the main character choose between the right thing to do and their loved ones, make them distrust everyone around them. Nothing like that ever happens in Mass Effect. The only one accused of indoctrination is Udina and who really cares? Shepard is never faced with the conflict of having to kill her indoctrinated friends. So why is the indoctrination plotline even there? Also the endings are obviously tied to the villains and their indoctrination never reached blabbering husk stages. Saren and Illusive Man had totally logical reasons for not wanting to destroy the Reapers - it's not like someone said "do that" and they did, they had to be convinced using feeding off their fears, ambitions and lack of knowledge about the Reapers. It's just how Starchild convinves you - not with orders and magic but with sound arguments. And why is the Starchild's voice mix of female and male Shepard voice actors? Why? Just why? How were we not supposed to believe it happens in Shepard's mind? What else could the creators be trying to tell us?
Going back to the Inusannon, we do see one possible point of evidence of their presence (sort of) in the Omega DLC, Reeper Adjutant units, if you look at them, they do in some ways, look a bit like the Inusannon. What is interesting is that the Adjutant's spread via viral agents, which makes one wonder, what if the Inusannon did too, it also makes the virus that spread on the Omega station in Mass Effect 2, potentially more interesting.
Yeah, you convinced me on the Thorian. You have to realize that instead of killing the Thorian, maybe all you did was teach the Old Growth the value of a subtle, light touch, maybe even to the point of allowing the thralls to believe that they have free will and are just "really cooperative". After all, it is long lived enough to be able to afford to play the long game.
Mildly disappointed that the theory that the child (that we see killed in the opening scenes, in Shepard's dreams, and as the Crucible's VI) was the Reapers trying to convince Shepard to give up on trying to stop them. Evidence is thin - No one else interacts with the kid - there's no one in the courtyard where he's playing, Anderson doesn't see him or doesn't talk about seeing him in the vent, and no one on the escape shuttle helps him in/even notices him before the door is immediately closed. This is followed by a dream where Shepard can't save him, then a dream where Shepard can't save him and others lost after Tuchanka. You get the idea - trying to convince Shepard no one can be saved.
Another observation I came up with is that the adjutants from the omega dlc look like the inusannon, especially their faces as both have beard like tubes in their faces. Also, Cerberus were able to produce these things from a mysterious reaper virus which I think the reapers created it from harvesting the inusannon. I don't know but I thought I should share this
I started playing the mass effect saga two months ago by buying the legendary edition here in Brazil. Since then, this game became my top favorite rpg ever and I discovered your channel during my gameplays to answer some questions I’ve had and man… YOU ARE AMAZING WITH WHAT YOU DO!!! Keep up the good work big Dan! Greetings from Brazil 🇧🇷
@@diogolima9588 Hahahaha Big Dan é bom demais mano eu não consigo para de ver ele... E vc se gosta dele e de mass effect é um cara gente boa tbm! tamo juntoooo
@@mattblacksoul1 Com certeza irmão, também assisto ele com muita frequência, esses vídeos relacionados a teorias e possibilidades principalmente, são os melhores. E mass effect eu diria que é a minha franquia de jogos favorita, universo riquíssimo, nunca enjoa. Tamo junto irmão
While Legion does focus on saving his people, I don't think the intention of that scene is to deceive. 300 years of Quarian history made the Geth into the bad guys, so you aren't going to get an accurate account from them. So, from a storytelling perspective, how would you give an unbiased account?
Legion’s interaction with the council is nuts. “We think sovereign was just a Geth ship.” “Hey, uh, we can’t make that kind of tech and I’m one of the most technologically advanced geth there is.” “Yeah Shep your Geth is stupid and dumb because it contrasts my presuppositions.”
Regarding the moon of Thedas and the planet Klendagon, they are both just renderings of Mariner Valley, a real-life geological feature that exists on Mars.
My theory is that the Benefactor in Andromeda is actually the geth. The Initiative would require tons of credits, so much that only an AI could get it without drawing attention. The geth would be happy to work with Alec trying to establish a connection between organics and AI We know that Initiative was able to map Andromeda using geth technology, showing they were observing it. The geth are the only real group that could discover the Reaper threat and accept it before even Shepard did. We know the geth will return in Mass Effect 4, and likely in a big way. ME4 is likely post Destroy ME3. How'd they survive? They were in Andromeda. The weakest aspect is why kill Jien Garson? My thoughts are that the geth thought that the Initiative would be more open to AI, but they were still viewed as "murder bots", so they had to remove Garson before she revealed it and caused a panic or war.
Regarding Legion: the memories match what I'd pieced together as the likely reality. Whether they were or were not deep fakes, they supported information that I had gleaned from both sides throughout the trilogy.
I think the Banshee’s are created through pure blood Asari, since the codex mentions active or latent capabilities, and since all Ardat-Yakshi are pure blood Asari that might be the criteria for their creation.
No, they just need to be carrying the recessive gene to become a banshee. To be a full ardat yakshi they need to recieve both copies of the gene, meaning their parents both need to be carriers, and if one of their parents is non-asari that parents obviously can't be the carrier so the offspring won't be an AY, but they might be a carrier still. So AYs can only be pure bloods, but any asari could be a carrier and that's all the reapers need to make a banshee
23:12 That's probably because she wanted to be as forward with Shepard about the state of Zhu's Hope due to the calamity facing the galaxy. Like, being able to collectively work together as a unit tied by psychic connection is pretty powerful, but people would ask questions if you hid that fact. I always figured that she just wanted to be forward with Shepard due to the stakes. It's one of those times where you can't really lie with omission...I mean, the life of every last sentient being in the Galaxy was on the line.
8:13 your questions were answered in Mass Effect 2 and 3. In Mass Effect 2, Samara says that to **her knowledge** the only Ardat-Yakshi were her daughters. In Mass Effect 3, she says that she hasn't been in contact with her daughters for several centuries. I just recently played the trilogy and I am 100% sure that this is correct.
38:15 I don’t think those are statues nor beards… We learned in a previous mission,that the reapers were planning to harvest the next advanced species. If you look again. Those beards look more like tubes. In fact, there are tubes leading to the arms and eyes as well. So it looks like what was left behind was dried up bodies. With what nutrients were extracted, allowed plants to take root and grow. At least, that’s what I think.
I do kind of hope the next ME game answers some of the questions left by Andromeda. There is an easy way to do so if they want: if the Milky Way species were able to repair the Relay Network, that means they can probably build new ones. A trans-Galactic Relay would be possible, though of course it'd require someone to make the long trip over so they could build the Relay for the Andromeda side of the pair network. But that'd absolutely be worth doing if they are serious about colonizing the other galaxy. And being attached to that other galaxy also gives the devs an opportunity to introduce a new big bad entity/faction to the Milky Way, since the Andromeda Galaxy outside the Heleus Cluster is basically wide open for the writing team to populate and utilize.
The Sweat thing is hilarious to me. Someone was SO down bad for a fictional videogame alien, that they made a fucking BIOCHEMISTRY SPREADSHEET for sweat... How do we convince and motivate these types of people to help with curing real world diseases?
Indoctrination theory was either intended by some of the writers, regardless of what some of the developers say, or they just made a looooooot of editing and story mistakes and got lazy. It's far easier to assume at least some of it is true, though I don't like the notion that NONE of the end happens. I just think it's more likely that Shepard was under severe indoctrination attack at the end, and having to power through it.
Funny thing, the first time I played through Mass Effect 2, I didn't know anyone could die, because no one did. One of my friend told me and I was so happy about me decisions.
I cannot get enough of these deep dives into ME lore/theories. I click every single iceberg video haha, this was one of the better ones, so thank you for taking the time to put it together! Very enjoyable!
1) If that Virmire Survivor vs Liara thing happened, I would’ve always chosen the Virmire Survivor. 2) I like to think the events of the Dragon Age franchise happen in the same universe as ME, just very distantly in the past.
I like to think they take place in the same universe also but I don’t really get how the theory Dan mentioned would make any sense (magic being related to Element Zero somehow) since everything we know about it in ME it only affects the mass of objects & whatnot which wouldn’t explain people hurling lightning or fireballs, so I think if they do coexist lyrium would have to remain it’s own distinct thing from Eezo, maybe even a rare/unique element to Thedas
@@Dreadwing1000 well, if you rapidly decreased the mass of an object that would create huge amounts of heat. Considering Eezo is also used for tech abilities like Incinerate, it actually makes it a good parallel with Lyrium and fireballs. Also biotic abilities like Reave don't seem to have much to do with just the mass of an item.
@@Jane-oz7pp the way Reave works in lore is creating mini mass effect fields to disrupt the targets nervous system, the vampirism effect is simply a weird gameplay mechanic, and how would Eezo allow Morrigan to shape shift? And also incinerate is a ball of plasma fired from an Omni-Tool, it’s not directly related to Eezo
Considering the Thorian... I mean, it has a, and I quote: "massive sensory network." Just because Shepard took out the apparent center of that network doesn't mean he took out ALL of it. And it wouldn't be the only plant that can regrow from a small piece, as long as it has nutrients and water.
Problem is complex nerves are the absolute most energy demanding. You're about 200 pounds. Your brain is 1 pound. It consumes as much energy as all the rest of you combined.
@@Mortablunt That's fair. But if the thing's nerve clusters are spread out over miles and miles of land, then it's entirely possible parts of it are stilla round and can at least regrow.
For those who don't know, the Dark Energy Theory ending was the original ending for the Mass Effect series, but it was scrapped because the ending was leaked. Bioware panicked and had to delay the release of Mass Effect 3 when it was still in development because of the leak. They settled on the man vs machine storyline because they couldn't figure out a way to make dark energy ending work after it got leaked. They were worried about sales of the game with a leaked ending, so they decided to change it, push back the release date, and quickly throw in a new ending. The DLC that added Javik was to help solidify the new ending. That's why the ending was kind of garbage. They didn't really have time to rehash a new ending. That's why there's mention of dark energy destroying the star that Haestrom orbits. It was the plan to end it that way, not just a scrapped idea.
10:30 The codex tells you EXACTLY how you ran into so many Banshees despite the three "active" Ardat Yhakshi. If they have an "active or latent" potential to become one? The Reapers can use them for the job. It is entirely possible that several Asari have the POTENTIAL to become Ardat Yhakshi but have not had the aberrant gene activate. And that number of Asari is far larger since active ones are often killed because they won't live in a gilded cage.
Protheans could have done something akin to the Andromeda project, sent a ship with some of their people to another galaxy in hope that some would survive
Eh, the one about Legion lying to Shepard about the past of the Geth and Quarians... Legion only withheld information, never presented false information before. To human minds that would seem a distinction without a difference, but to them would be a huge difference.
As far as the Ardat-Yakshi thing I think it is more that they are created from regular Asari. The codex says the reapers select them from Asari with latent or active Ardat Yakshi genes. The Asari have made mating with other Asari taboo because the genes for an Ardat Yakshi are likely a recessive trait that is more likely to be passed on through 2 Asari rather than an Asari and an alien.
Yeah. Plus with how strong asari genes are. Even after mating with ANOTHER ENTIRELY ALIEN SPECIES, the asari retain their same looks. With genes like that, I can see how 2 asari genetics coming together could create the ability to kill instantly.
This is how I know I need to touch grass: I had only not known about 4 of these. A few notes: -you missed/didn't mention that there were datapads in the monastery with messages between other ardat yakshi residents, so we know for a fact there are others -it wasn't believed the angara were the only species in the GALAXY, just the Helius cluster Great vid! Hope you do more long form content!
I really love listening to icebergs being explained in background while I do something else. Especially when the creator speaks about it with real passion like you. Thanks for that and many other of your videos about my favorite franchise, keep it up!
You know, i just played the Thorian mission on ME1 and there is a small detail, it seems to be heavily implied that Shiala was indoctrinated, she says that herself, she served with Benezia and Saren, and traveled onboard Soverign, maybe Shiala was able to break free for a moment to help Shepard like Benezia did, (and even Saren in the end if you can convince him) but we all know how that would end eventually. So the green one on ME2 cant be the real Shiala if thats the case.
Side note on the creation of the Reapers: while hundreds of thousands of years ago is technically correct, it's closer to hundreds of millions in scale. The disabled reaper where the IFF mission plays is some 37 million years old.
31:00 It's also possible that the Protheans might be hermaphroditic, like lilies or roses. I find it hard to believe that all aliens in the galaxy require 2 to tango, so to speak. And not all aliens have sexual binaries - the asari and the a hanar come to mind. Anyway, it's my headcanon that after the events of ME3, Javik takes it upon himself to repopulate the Prothean race, and self-produces a bunch of babies like a PlantSim in the Sims 2.
I think the Leviathans are smart enough to see “damn, they actually BEAT the Reapers” and given how there are only 3 of them…. I don’t think they’re making and moves anytime soon.
I got an interesting theory about the Thorian. Know what they have in common with Rachni Queens and the Leviathans? Their ability to control the minds of other organisms, or enslave their minds. And the Thorian and Rachni are all but exctinct, but the Leviathans are still around, more or less. I assume the Leviathans are the ones responsible for the near extinction of the Thorian and Rachni, because in the case of the Rachni, the Reapers are not the ones responsible for instigating the Rachni Wars. It's easy to believe the Reapers instigated the wars because there was no one else to blame until the Leviathan DLC opened up the possibility that the Leviathans were behind it all. The Leviathans like everyone to believe that they are an apex species, but what if they really weren't? The existence of the Thorian and Rachni proves that they aren't different or special.
"When you need a new problem, ask a salarian." Mordin, future savior of the krogan race, standing right behind Shepard: "Unacceptable. No choice. Have to kill you." 😒
Great video! For me Indoctrination Theory is the only way to make sense of the ending after all those years. And yes, it's a way of copium and I made my peace with that. Never forget Marauder Shields. Also the true ending..... Shepard arm coming out of the rubble... That's after all the ending sequence ON EARTH and not much timr after Harbinger beam.
I believe the most important line from Banshee codex is "active or latent" one. Active Ardat-Yakshi are like Samara's daughters, latent ones are the ones who carry their genes, but not AY themselves, like Samara. It is possible that latent AY were also encouraged to choose isolation in monastery. Considering the whole AY thing is asari equivalent of incest, it would be fair to assume that the more "pureblood", or "inbred", if you will, the asari gets, higher the chance of conceiving AY. It's a chance and not a certainty, as we know how Samara had three daughters, believing that this time result might be different. So she had, or at least believed that she could conceive a normal daughter, but no luck. But yeah, it's just a plot hole, after all, there's no definitive answer
Samara literally said "to my knowledge there are only 3 AY left" which implies she had no knowledge of the Monastery (later confirmed by Liara) Also, the Monastery was full of AYs, but most of them had been turned by Reapers (confirmed by Samara)
your rant around 10 min is kinda crazy when the codex literally states, "latent predisposition" of Artdat-Yakshi is how you create a banshee. A latent predisposition is a underlying susceptibility to a disease or condition that isn't currently active but can be triggered under certain conditions. In other words, some Asari are walking around with a predisposition to becoming an Artdat-Yakshi but it, never happened or hasn't happened yet.
Another thing that was not covered in this video if timestamps are anything to go by (have not yet watched the video, sorry) is the origin of the Adjutants on ME3 Omega DLC. Supposedly they were a species from one of the previous cycles repurposed by the Reapers. I always found that intriguing for some reason.
On the Normandy, after a few conversations (which is easier to get to with the DLCs and the fact the game lets you play after the main story ends) Legion also interestingly references the dyson sphere that you see in ME3 as well.
This video has earned a subscription. I’ve played all the Mass effect games since they first came out and have always been interested in their lore but never looked up videos about them until now.
I would highly recommend considering applying this approach to other series as well. I personally watched this entire video without checking the time, and it was incredibly entertaining. The time flew by
I was there during the Bioware Social Forums existence. It was a pit of pure darkness, and I am ashamed I ever spent any time there. The only good thing it ever had was the tali helmet removal meme, where people shopped all kinds of things onto Tali's face after she takes the helmet off in ME2
I hope we get a vorcha crewmate and elcor crewmate in the next game both perspectives would be great and maybe a biotic god volus And might as well give us a jelly fish too!
That feels so weird though. Yeah sure let’s just ignore the lore we have for these races just for the sake of making them toys for the player to tinker with. Feels a bit too “video-gamey” to me but I suppose it’d be sorta cool
"Legion is the window to the geth."
But geth don't have windows
This comment is under appreciated
Correct, they use IOS
"Windows are structural weaknesses." 😉
The Thorian surviving is an interesting theory and I've wondered myself if it could be possible, after all Shepard only "kills" one nervous center. Unfortunately we may never know the truth. Maybe you should speak to Fai Dan, he will know more about it
The only way you're killing that thing is by glassing the planet and killing everyone infected with its spores, then burning the corpses.
Nothing short of that would be enough.
You caught me of guard with this one 😂
I hear he has his own lore channel, Small Fai Dan Theorising.
Its interesting too because it seems to hold no ill will against shepard. It actively keeps them informed of the colonies status in the fight against the reapers.
Yeah the Thorian is spread all over the planet so you never know
In the part, where you talk about the Ardat-yakhsi, the codex literally said that banshee can be created from asari with latent gene, and because asari rarely mate with other asari, there can be ton of them, in one family, and never actually become them. So number of banshees has no impact on number of living Ardat-yakhsi before reaper harvest.
So much this, it seems Dan doesn't know what 'latent' means :P
Yea, the devil is in the details. Missing the 'latent' part of that entry really changes things. So many theories across so many fandoms sprout from misheard/misinterpreted bits of lore. Sometimes it is subtle and easy to miss, other times a simple reread/rewatch before mapping out your 17 page theory is advised. Star Wars, Westworld, MCU, Mass Effect, Horizon series and many more all have had theories expanded upon by fans based on a slightly incorrect lore note.
Facts my head cannon is that the government doesn’t talk about the number publicly so the justicar only talk about the few that run.
If I’m not mistaken during the Monastery mission you can find some data pads where some Matriarchs are talking about new arrivals on the Monastery, something about the Ardat Yakshi’s annual visit on Thessia and even some Ardat Yakshi talking about watching movies together so technically there WERE other Ardat Yakshi aside from Morinth, Rila and Falere
@@user-ww1gk5ku1w yeah there was more of them. Outside of it being retcon, it can be explained as being a secret, so Samara only knew about her own family members.
Another big pointer is, that It would be quite surprising if all of staff that maintained the monastery would be latent carrier of the gene, so we can assume, that probably most Banshees inside the monastery were created from Ardat-yakhsi. But apart from that number of banshees in the galaxy will not give us any information on Ardat-yakhsi population overall.
You missed where Tali herself responds to the "what does Tali's sweat smell like?". During the Citadel DLC, you can find her in the bathroom under the influence of alchohol and she responds, "it just smells like SWEAT, how can you even ask that"
Ah, I thought she was talking about… you know…
@@TheAncientOfRiteswhat?
@@RedDeadWest2182 I thought it was talking about cum, given the previous couple of statementd
Yes but that's what sweat smells like to a Quarian who only knows what Quarian sweat smells like (presumably). Hmm.
Tali is always best girl.
@@MaximilianonMars My man is down horrendous for the Quarussy sweat.
My god Dan you are a treasure for keeping alive this beautiful franchise.
He’s doing a better job than BioWare ever did!
Give or take years, xd.
Neither Bioware nor EA deserve this amazing fan base.
you are aware they released the remastered trilogy... right? xD
@@grilledleeks6514 And why do you think that is? Do you realize that channels like this are what keep people interested, and that interest is what makes developers remake their games? Seriously, you're not very bright lol
The fact that they've made Javik a DLC character is mind blowing. He is still very much core to understanding the story and the general lore of ME.
same with leviathan. I think dragon age is even worse with the trespasser dlc but thats what happens when you're owned be ea
It was a cynical money grab common nowadays where content critical to the main story gets placed behind a paywall
Seriously, you'd think the prothean would be the critical part of the story, and if I was writing the story he would have been. I think finding Javik and using him to unlock secret prothean facilities for a key to beat the reapers would be far superior to the deus ex machina crucible
@@Captain_Insano_nomercy in pre ea fuckery drafts thats close to what happened
@@donb7519 no shit?
I think the email reiterating the Thorian is dead was included more for the player to recall who Shiala was and connect it back to Zhu’s Hope. Gotta remember a lot of players probably didn’t play the trilogy back to back when ME3 released
Making me3 accessible to new players was the worst decision they could make, it hampered the entire game.
Could've also missed Shiala in ME2
It's good for Playstation players who couldn't play the first game
When the games were first coming out there was years separating the releases. No way I'd remember something from ME1 that many years later lol
There's no way TIM wasn't indoctrinated as soon as he came into contact with the Shanxi artifact, it gave him husk eyes and visions of reapers. Like he's not changed to full husk-cultists like the others but that second-hand dose of woowoo absolutely influenced him.
I’m inclined to agree. I think part of him did still want to help humanity, but we know indoctrination can be a slow burn and the Reaper’s arrival turned up the heat.
You make a good point, but I can’t get past the words “second-hand dose of woowoo.” 😂😂😂😂
It might have made him vulnerable but I doubt me2 could have happened if he was indoctrinated, that fucked with Harbinger’s plans too much.
It's only an opinion you express. If you get some of the tech, you are deemed to be indoctrinated whether you realize it or not. Mine is he was indoctrinated but not by the reapers but by leviathan which in turn explains why reapers attack sanctuary once he managed to create the control option. Why ? Because reapers don't leave anything behind which could alert organic about the existence of the cycles and therefore they would not leave behind the shaxi artifact. Only leviathan is studying organics to find a real solution, leviathan AND harbinger who's made of leviathans.
@@silverthehero1295 TIM willing to help humanity is a redhearing. TIM is crafting humanity to be helpful within leviathan's plans. TIM created the human biotics by illegally disseminating eezo contamination pregnants mothers and creating some freeks amongst hundreds of deaths. We are told in the leviathan dlc biotic powers accelerates the rate of mutations and leviathan is trying to find something which could handle the crucible in all the organics harvested by the reapers. TIM created the Normandy twice by stealing ET techs and owning the companies which built both ships. TIM is the one owning the 2 companies which found the Thorian and also the Rachni queen which in turn allow Shepard to find the conduit.
Ever hear the Asari theory? Supposedly the Asari can manipulate brain waves to change how they look to other species, to make themselves look more attractive to specific species and nobody actually knows what they look like. I heard this theory pop up in ME 2 when a Salarian, Turian, and a Human are watching an Asari dancer and each of them found a unique attractive trait specific to their species in the dancer, as if each of them were individually seeing a completely different person.
It isn't true though, it's just a joke about how each species sees an attractive trait that aligns with their own race. There are way too many instances where Asari would be revealed for it to be actually canon, or even possible.
@@therobustempyrean1436 Haha! of course not! But it would be an awesome twist! Picture in ME 4, we break the Asari brain washing and Liara turns out to be a bipedal Insect!
@@dvorah9429 It'd be a weird twist, but I think the bigger issue is that half the fan base would go "Eh, I'd still hit it".
@@therobustempyrean1436 Yes! I would romance that! Lol! Errr I mean... I'm normal!
I agree. It would be funny, but it wouldn't, make any sense for it to be true. It would make the Asari not be able to be captured on camera as their ability could possibly affect electronic images and people who had never seen an asari in person before.
As I recall, Samara didn’t say, “They’re ONLY 3 in existence.” I believe she just said, “And they’re 3 in existence today.” Which means she KNOWS they’re are at least three because she birthed them.
Plus the narrated codex clip Dan played literally says that Banshees are made from AY's or asari with AY tendencies.
AY's are the result of a genetic disease. We also know that among the asari, pureblood mating seems to be linked to the birth of AYs.
AYs are likely the result of a recessive gene. Scores - but clearly not all - asari probably carry the gene. And when 2 carriers mate, they'd probably have a 1/4 chance of producing an AY, a 1 in 4 chance of producing an asari that's not a carrier at all, and a 2 in 4 chance of producing a carrier. Samara was unlucky in that all 3 of her children were AY. It happens.
But that would explain how there are so many Banshees in the game if even an AY carrier could become a Banshee.
@@Gangerworld I want to say in the AY entry in 2, it mentions that ten percent of asari carry the AY gene.
It is said in a way that makes it very clear, that her daughters are the only known AY and that is clearly retconned in ME 3. They wanted to create a level around her daughters and introduce a new and powerful enemy that shows what the reapers are doing to the Asari.
@@TheGerudan
Eh, is it really a retcon? Samara says "as far as I know there are 3", and she hasn't seen her daughters for centuries. There could easily be more AY born before and after her daughters
@@steelbear2063 No, she says that there are 3 in existence and with AY as deadly as they are, it is very obvious, that they keeping close track on them. If there is any Asari who knows how many AY there are, it would be her. Especially would she knowAt the very least she would know that there are more than her daughters at the monastery (which in ME 3 there obviously seemed to have been).
In the scene in ME 2 it is clearly meant to emphasis how tragic it is for her and how guilty she feels for even having three daughters knowing the problem and there is 0 reason to believe that the writers meant anything else back then.
So yeah, it is a very obvious retcon and it is okay, because it gave us a very cool level and some cool enemies, but no one should try to bend reality to not see it as the obvious retcon that it was. It's not like ME is a stranger to stuff like that . Thermal clips anybody?
I think bioware wrote so many characters and plots, that the writers wouldn't remember everything when questioned on the spot. (Like with the aria thing)
I just think it doesn't make sense to ask somebody that had absolutely nothing to do with the game background lore and take it as law lol.
They also mentioned somewhere that they wrote the games in such a way that they could lead plot threads and breadcrumbs around that could lead places, for future games, but also might not and just be fun little details that don't end up going anywhere.
@@tylermiller6820Exactly, none of clowns who made that woke dumpster fire Andromeda should be expected to actually know anything about the series.
Except that loser was solely an Andromeda writer, he's not a voice to consider relevant to Mass Effect as a whole period when they couldn't qrite for 1 game
Nah it's because all of the original writers were moved to a different project after ME2 which is why subsequent games were lower in quality and consistency
On the Ardat-Yakshi/Banshees thing:
In the codex it says active or latent predispositions to becoming Ardat-Yakshi. So what that means is any Asari who carries the gene, even if they aren't one themself. So there really could have only been 3 Ardat-Yakshi, but millions of Asari probably carry the trait latently. Samara is an example of a latent carrier of the trait. She mated with another latent Asari and their offspring was then active due to the dual latent parents. It all fits directly with the pureblood discrimination and the taboo of Asari breeding within their own species. It's because so many Asari are latent carriers. The monastery is likely from a time before they found other intelligent species they could mate with. It needed to be so large to accommodate the number of Ardat-Yakshi that would have existed at that time. Hope that clears up that whole thing for you. It really shows the depth of the Mass Effect lore.
We have logs in the monastery of other residents, it was definitely a retcon of the number.
There are tons of datapads with messages between other ardat yakshi in the monastery
@@totallytubular618 I didn't say there couldn't be more than 3, I just said it was possible while still explaining banshees.
@@xenon8117 yeah, I forgot about those. It's unfortunate because they really wouldn't have had to do the retcon.
dont forget Samara said "as far as I know" that was not a confirmation of 3 as the number. I doubt she visited. like prob 1-on-1 video chats at most. The way I saw it was like a monastery style mental hospital, with probably at least a 3-1 staff to patient ratio. It's the 1 monastery in the whole universe where they treat these girls. nothing about this feels like a retcon.
You know, about Aria on ME2, there is one more line where she says that "sometimes is better to disappear than be forced to kill someone", pay close attention to her voice when she says "someone", thats intentional, i think this is also conected and also fits with Wrex story, and Wrex is likely to be that "someone". So "Aleena" aka Aria, propared the fight in a way she could dissapear rather than fight Wrex to the death. It all fits.
OH, OH, wait a minute, now i realise, this is why Aria want Shepard to come ALONE during her DLC... "i have objections to some of the company you keep".... she cant risk Wrex being onboard the Normady.
The problem with that is that the only reason she had to disappear from Wrex was because he was contracted by a Volus, but that Volus was killed by natural causes before the events of ME1 in the story Wrex tells
Also, Aria really isn't the type of person to care about collateral damage and to fight with honour and respect. Wrex said that Aleena chose some abandoned space station for their battle so there would be no innocent collateral. In both ME2 and ME3, Aria demonstrates that she's more focused on the consolidation of power rather than looking after the people she rules in Omega. In ME3, she actively pushes for Shepard to switch off the life support for an entire district of residents on Omega. The context for that situation was that her and someone she cares about were being overrun by mutant monsters and Shepard had to divert power from different sources (or all the power from one residential district) to release the shield and allow them to escape. It's not unreasonable for her to suggest that, but it does make it difficult to believe this is the same person who wanted to honourably fight in a location with no innocent casualties.
In addition to all of that, she actively stripped Patriarch of all of his dignity and when she defeated him and kept him around as a trophy. She took everything that made him strong in the eyes of everyone and degraded him to show everyone what happens when she's crossed or challenged. She's the one who gave him the name Patriarch as a title of mockery and disrespect. She seems much more like the kind of person who'd shoot Wrex in the back than someone who'd agree to fight on even terms in an abandoned station out of a sense of respect and honour.
@@TOONYBOYNot abandoned, station full of mercenaries.
Fun fakt in the german version of the game the cerberus leader is only refered to as "der Unbekannte" witch roughly translates to "The Unknown Man". Kinde of funny when you ask NPC`s about "The Unknown Man" and they tell you they dont know the Unknown Man or anything about him.
I wish they'd given us the option to kill Rana in ME2. The way I play my Shepard he would have spared her in ME1 but in ME2 it would have been a "fool me once..." type of thing and he would have taken her out.
As someone that has played the trilogy on the 360 an unhealthy amount of time, you absolutely can kill Rana on ME2, though I can't remember for the life of me what are the specific dialogue choices you have to take for that
@@darkj6715 you can’t, I’ve also played ME an unhealthy amount of times and no dialogue choices allow you to kill her.
A very tiny possibility is that Cora Harper is related to The Illusive Man. It could just be surname's the same though.
Given his adoration of Jack’s biotic abilities maybe Cora was his own Miranda, seems like something he’d do.
@@xenon8117she is
pretty sure Cora's dad's past conflicts with The Illusive Man
Regarding Fist's body, I wonder if maybe the dev was right about it being included but wrong about where it was placed. Specifically, it seems to me that given our encounter with Fist in ME2, the most likely place to stumble across Fist's body while creeping around back areas trying to retake a station from Cerberus would be on the Omega during Aria's quest, not on the Citadel during the coup attempt. Just a random thought in the wee hours of the night.
Hey, I was just playing LE3 again and randomly decided to look at Shepard in the "Citadel tunne" - visible scars glowing. used Photomode to take a look at the scar, yellow glow within the red! Yellow is used by Harbinger. Sovereign used Red.
@Big Dan Gaming: Speaking about the return of the Protheans, I have a suggestion for a topic I don't think you have covered yet. In the "Reckoning" multiplayer DLC for ME3 we get the "Awakened Collector Adept" with interesting lore. The Leviathans severed Harbringer's control over the Collectors they encountered, and these survivors went on to oppose the Reapers. It turned out that Javik wasn't the only Prothean "Avatar of Vengeance" out there!
Don't forget the Ilos scientists possibly being sustained by the keepers and sleeping somewhere.
Could've been a nice counterweight to the Starbrat plus that Reaper Queen.
While this is nice and all- those are still “Collectors” in body form- and probably will never able to regain their previous Prothean form
@@daydreamdirty Their souls are back at least.
The Collector ship makes it clear the Collectors are just shells of Protheans.
Mordin said the Collectors are essentially biological robots.
Stripped of anything we would call "human" for ourselves.
After the final showdown with the Archon, when you return to the colony in Andromeda, there are some logs you can read from V. Tethras, telling the player how yours is a story worth telling, etc. I kind of gather that this Easter Egg isn't widely known or not remembered. I could believe that Both universes co-exist together.
for aria being aleena, the guy who said no didn't work on me1-3 so his opinion is null void in my book, i think him saying no is just the response he was told to say if he was asked something that he didn't know about
hard agree, the choices are, believe the guy who wrote ME 1-3 or believe the guy who made a game with 0 connection to the original franchise barring that the 600 year one way trip was started inbetween the events of 1 and 2
Honestly the way to fix Legion for the LE is so simple, they just need to add in an option to start the research on the IFF to the research tab, keep the dialogue the same, but make it a tech tree upgrade, that way players can initiate the crew abduction whenever they’re ready to
I know right, ain't that very suspect for Shiala to turn green after a few years ? The one we meet on Illyum could just be one of her Thorian clones, plain and simple. 😅
About the Protheans' return, there's actually quite a few possibilities. Now that they've found Javik (a living specimen) and probably dozens of stasis pods containing dead ones, a fanatical group of Hanar geneticists could easily clone and recreate Protheans, then give them sacred prothean artifacts to rebuild their society and guide them as a subservient species. Since Protheans can learn things through touch and understand beacons without any issue, a new generation of cloned Prothean wouldn't even need living ones to teach them anything.
Protheans subservient to Hanar, or vica versa? The Hanar could be mad enough to clone their own gods, as long as theyd prefer to serve THEM. It would be a very interesting dynamic, a species that doesnt want freedom and prefers guidance from another.
@@Grivehn yeah, more like some crazy Hanar recreating Protheans to guide them, in my mind. 😅
If they have an opportunity to bring back their gods, why not actually take that shot.
@@Oleus LET THE REKINDLING BEGIN
@@Oleus Yeah, having an Asari turn GREEN is a very strange side effect. I suspect the plant thing just wants them all to think it's dead.
I've had this theory that the Kett, the bad guys from Andromeda, are actually evolutionary decendants of the Protheans. They actually share a lot of similarities culturally, being an empire that assimilates other species (Javik mentioned something like that once, and while he never explicitly said so, it's possible that the genetic mutation the Kett use was part of that process), and it would absolutely make sense for the Protheans to have sent an expedition to Andromeda as well. 50.000 years of evolution might have caused them to look as they do now.
In regards to the Zaeed model, I recently watched the crown and was sure that I was looking at Zaeed. The actors name is Tobias Menzies, and when I saw him on screen I remember thinking “Huh, that guy looks a lot like Zaeed.” He would be my pick for a live action Zaeed.
Close, but not quite. It's Chris Hubbard.
Not dissing on Tobias tho, if they're looking to cast, I see him fitting as Zaeed too. Would love to see how he'd carry the role.
Hey Big Dan, if you're looking, one small easter egg/reference that I don't know if anyone else has noticed happens with Nihlus on Eden Prime. Basically, Nihlus says his "I move faster on my own line" and then is betrayed by one of his own men(Saren).
This is exactly what happens to Willem Dafoe in his role as Sgt Elias in the movie Platoon, so I think it's too much of a coincidence to not be a reference. Though like I said, never heard anyone mention it before lol.
I think that is very plausible. Zaeed Massani has the exact same facial scar as Sgt. Barnes from Platoon so it looks like somebody at BioWare is a fan of the movie haha
@@ScottishBasset never thought of that haha
@@ScottishBasset Fk Vito Santiago
If the trilogy story writer says Aria is Aleena, and some guy works on andromeda says no, I take the writer’s word every time.
Yes, 100
Isn’t Andromeda made by the same people who did the original trilogy?
@axelnilsson5124 no its not, how else do you think the game was a complete flop, they're not remotely the same people
@axelnilsson5124 No the original team were moved to a different franchise after the second game, that's why the third is a downgrade
@@privateuser3726 ME3 was great wdym?
There is one thing I'm surprised no one ever paid attention to, what Morinth says during her confrontation with Samara, she says something very disturbing
"I'm the genetic destiny of the Asari, But they are not ready to reveal this, so I must die"
Notice that she doesn't say "They are not ready for this" or "They can't see this" No, she specifically says "They are not ready to reveal this"
Later on the Ardat-Yakshi Monastery you find this Journal:
_______________________________________
Jethra,
I looked over this year's candidates for supervised visits to Thessia. I'm approving everyone but Yanis. She's impulsive, cunning, and worst of all, a romantic. Find me a worse combination to let outside our walls. (I find it suspicious she was even nominated: let's look into that, and pray it's not Yanis manipulating another infatuation.)
It takes a great deal of time and effort to persuade Thessia's government to let our best students visit their own homeworld. Unless Yanis matures, she won't be among them.
Matriarch Gallae
______________________________________
This could probably point out that the Asari government have plans for the Ardat-Yakshi and they are preparing them for something.
If you think about it, The Justicars - while extremely powerful - are not reliable to do dirty work because their code prevents them from doing so, so on a political level, the Asari command can't rely on Justicars to do their dirty work. The Asari commandos while powerful are not similar to STG for Salarians or as the Specters to the Council. What if the Asari were planning to create their own modified super soldiers so they can do their bidding? it would make sense that since Morinth was on the run for so long that she had sources and contacts and knew something that others did not. And since she didn't trust anyone to reveal that information she chose to die with it.
Morinth tells this because all Asari have the control ability but to a much lesser degree than Ardat-Yakshis. Matriarchs develop an extremely strong suggestion ability toward other organics which explains why they are talented diplomats and Asari in general are able to seduce other species through mental conditioning. Please note leviathan's control power is the same, the exact same as the Ardat-Yakshi. Leviathan created the Asari species. Asari develop the Ardat-Yakshi trait only when mating with other asari which can increase their mental suggestion capabilities but it is not a desired condition hence why they are hunted down.
Playing through the series again, especially in the past year with seeing how geopolitics gets played out in the open, I find the Asari a lot less benevolent than I did the first times around.
The Asari remind me a lot of EU-NATO, they put on the benevolent and wise voice-of-reason act, but you have to ignore the fact massive and genocidal wars (Rachni, Krogan) have happened under their watch, they maintain a powerful military of their own (Commandos, Justicars) and an even more powerful puppet military (Turians, later Humans), they have no problem unleashing professional war criminals to do their bidding unaccountably (Specters), and species and systems outside of their sphere of control are treated with relentless disregard and brutality (Quarians, primitive Krogan made into war slaves, Vorcha treated as underclass).
To not harp too much on real life examples, isn't it bizarre how the supposed defenders of peace and freedom have fought far more aggressive wars against non threat states than the "aggressive" dictatorships (Russia especially, also China and Iran, and demand those be suborned to them rather than allowing their parallel coexistence? It's probably not intentional, but the Asari give me major bad vibes upon reflection.
Bascially, the Asari are a false benevolent mafia -- give them their way or you're going to suffer a lot. Strange how "the good of the galaxy" 9999/10000 translates out to the good of the Asari in practice.
@@Mortablunt The Asari literally say "ohemgee i'm so nice and polite" and the whole galaxy buys it lmao
@@Mortablunt I see where you’re coming from about the Asari not being as benevolent as they say they are, and I agree with you.
But that’s a shit take trying to compare them to the EU or NATO lmao.
@@bobbywesker6114 It's not necessarily the best take, and I don't really think anyone in Mass Effect maps 1:1 to anyone IRL, which is solid writing from Bioware.
Samara said as far as she knows her daughters are the only ardat yakshi alive today, also it was stated that the Reapers can know if an Asari has the predisposition to become Ardat Yakshi so that they can trigger it before turning them into Banshees.
One weird "plothole" that is never explained is the Arrival DLC plot, where Shepard could be knocked out for 2 days on a station where everyone is indoctrinated, and yet never show any signs of indoctrination after an entire two days near object Rho, and that's AFTER seeing a vision directly from it!
Not to mention how the sedatives used to keep them under, suddenly just stops working with no explanation...
To me, this is still the weirdest part of 2s story, as it brings up the point, not of how Sheprad got indoctrinated, but how they could possibly NOT be indoctrinated after that long near object Rho with no mental protection or shielding!
For how strange this plot is, it's one i have heard surprisingly few theories about...
Shepard is an anomaly, the only real advantage she has is her indomitable will which makes indoctrination very difficult. That’s why the indoctrination theory always sounded like bullshit, all the way up to Thessia we hear that Shepard is not indoctrinated by prothean tech that can actually detect it.
Another fan theory is that the reapers are testing him. The reapers goal is to protect organics. They do this by destroying current organics to make way for new ones.
We also know each cycle has a hero. Javick being his cycles. They never directly controlled him but pushed him to the limits and he failed.
The fan theory is that the reapers are purposely leaving Shepard alone to see if organics are ready to survive
Him waking up from the sedatives is actually explained at the beginning of ME2 when after being rebuilt they explain sedatives have a lesser effect on him now. For the 2nd thing Shepard is just build different
Also the many times he approached Reapers, their artefacts, or their victim.
I also find it weird Shepard could interface with Prothean tech.
A cool explanation for this & his exceptional abilities would have been young him stumbling onto an ancient artefact that modified him to grow into an anti-reaper agent.
I'm not a lore expert but don't you need to be around it for a while? I'm going off what Benezia said and indeed that Seran wasn't even completely indoctrinated even by the end of ME1. He had to literally be implemented after Vermire and even then he can break out if it if you have the speaxg chec. That said though, absolutely no one retcons their writing more than Bioware. What was true in Mess Effect 1 was almost certainly not true in ME2 and 3, So it wouldn't surprise me at all if they said that it's a slow process like Benezia and that's how he got away with it (kind of like smoking and cancer) and then in the very same breath have other characters merely look at a Reaper and be indoctrinated. In fact, having said that, didn't Seren get indoctrinated after finding an artifact on an op? So there's an example there. In the game it takes long bouts of exposure but in the comic it's off a single artifact. Basically what I'm saying is as much as I like ME, the writing really isn't as good as what we think so don't think too deeply into Biowares plot holes because we could well be here until an actual real life Reaper invasion by the time we go through all of them
The simple, yet unspectacular reason for why Shiala tells you again about the Thorian´s demise in ME3: Not everybody played ME2, the meeting with Shiala in ME2 is quite irrelevant, more like a cameo and people may not remember it a few years down the line when playing ME3. It´s more a design decision to help the player remember who Shiala even is and less a hint to the Thorian surviving.
Why would they make her still green tho? Like why
I’d guess the Leviathans could be the new antagonists, but I think it’s more likely they’ll become a pariah species evading persecution by the survivors, as the creators - by extension - of the Reapers.
I’d love to see an optional arc where you help Javik find all the remaining Prothean technology and bases; it’d be good to see more about the structure of their empire and I’d love it if completing the arc led to finding a hidden facility with surviving Protheans.
10:39 to be fair Samara did say to her knowledge and considering Aria knows about them almost as if she has had some kind of experience dealing with one it definitely suggests that there’s a lot more than Samara’s kids running around.
I loved it when bioware took the „Tali’s sweat“ idea into the citadel dlc and solved this mystery once and for all 🤣
Drunk Tali is best Tali
4:40 Reegar is also funny "YOU GOT A GETH RIGHT BEHIND YOU!!!!"
I never even thought about not bringing Wrex along on the raid against Fist.
Him shooting Fist always seemed like it was meant to be.
About the Thorian, I firmly believe that it was implied that it is still alive and hid itself, recuperating. I assume, it did it because it's wary, not just of Sheperd, but also because of the Reaper threat. If the Leviathan themselves fled and hid from the Reapers, then it's safe to say that the Thorian is intelligent enough to understand its survival is under threat.
In ME3 You can overhear a conversation between two Asari on the citadel. They talk about how AY’s are born from two Asaris mating and how they need to kill the rest of them off. So either the reapers bred more or there were actually a lot out there that Samara didn’t want to scare shep with
You cut the more funny part of taking Legion to rescue Tali... Kal'Reegar saying "THERE IS A GETH RIGHT BEHIND YOU".
We also don't know the original homeworld of the Protheans. Also, there's the mystery of the Virtual Aliens that are mentioned to be a race that downloaded their consciousness to a virtual world in order to escape their home system from going supernova. The Galaxy Mod i believe added an interesting side quest called Ghosts of Antilin that give a deep dive on the Virtual Aliens, and to me, it would have made a perfect DLC in place of the very important lore DLCs like Leviathan and From Ashes
I've heard people mention Virtual Aliens before, but despite interacting with everything I encountered and completing every side quest I got, speaking to every NPC I knew of and reading every Codex log I unlocked, I never once got any mention of anything like that. Where did you get the information on Virtual Aliens?
A mod
@@TOONYBOY It's from the Cerberus Daily News, an online DLC feature that was in the vanilla Mass Effect 2 game, that was displayed on the main menu, that showed any DLC that was available for the game and in-game universe news.
@@tredausmaxima Kinda sucks they left that out of the Legendary Edition. Same thing with Pinnacle Station, really, even if it is an inconsequential DLC
@@TOONYBOY Yeah. They said they lost the coding for Pinnacle Station, yet modders were able to restore it for the Legendary Edition😂
Dude how did you not mention the entire impetus for the indoctrination theory... Its because if you choose to destroy the Reapers, after the credits, a clip plays of Commander Shepard in the rubble at the base of the relay to the Citadel, where he takes a breath. It's clearly him, given the armor of the chest, and this clip only plays if you chose to destroy the Reapers. If you choose the other two options, ostensibly the Reapers gain indoctrination control over Shepard. That is the one reason the theory even exists. And I don't understand why they play that clip in game if its not true...
"Tali's sweat tastes good."
"Support me so I can keep making this content."
"Joker and the Illusive Man are Eskimo brothers"
What a wild place to sandwich that plug 😂
Bro I doubt the Andromreda writer even knew who Aleena was
Hey Dan,
Hey everyone!
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I wanna admit a sidenote for the following topic, "The Indoctrination Theory":
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First of all I would like to thank the creators, that they gave me another perspective, because in the end of Mass Effect 3 (beware Spoilers dear N7s ;)) I was a little upset too.
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The Indoctrination Theory contains many... maaaannny things that are kind of conspiracy like and many of them are way too far away from reality in my oppinion. But some are amazing. Just amazing.
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I would like to emphasize a few things.
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1.) There are SO MANY coincidences, I just can not believe when Bioware states the theory isn't true. I would personally act a little more conspiracy-like, to be honest, because the coincidences are so crazy. So unbelievable crazy, they just can't be coincidences and "accidentally writing". I mean c'mon^^. Iam sure they just say "this theory is not right" (but in their mind they finish the sentences with kind of "but 80% of it is" or something like that.
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2.) The Starchild is... no I have to start somewhere else. So if you're not into what the Theory contains, ähm try the following perspective:
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Imagine that the Crucible Szene, where Shepard decides between Refusal or 3 differnet endings in 3 colors, is kind of a dream. Not a real dream but, it is in Shepards mind.
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Now we can start. Houuu I like it so much to talk and write about that :D
Allright here we go:
1st of all you have Shepard talking to the Starchild and a very large spot where Shepard is able to move. He can go straight forward to encounter the "green" symbiosis ending. He can go left, for the blue control ending and he can go right for the red destroy ending.
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Now keep in mind what you do all the time when you talk to someone as Shepard. When you do, you have a dialogue wheel where you can investigate on the left, make a neutral answer on the right, the bottom is renegade and the top is paragon.
Now remember the szene with the starchild. And try to "zoom out" and look at it from a perspective of a bird.
You will the the classic Dialogue Wheel.
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Now we have the question: Why is RED the renegade ending and blue (good) the paragon one?
It is simple in the end.
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Your goal is it, in the game, to stop the reapers and your only information is, that you CAN stop the reapers. You can probably destroy them, this is your goal. Since you have the opportunity to do so the indoctrination, that works on Shepard hits a critical spot.
The Reapers are trying to indoctrinate you as a gamer. Its a brilliant move, from the developers, they break the 4th wall. When you choose to control, either symbiosis, you got fooled and indoctrinated, because the starchild is trying to convince you that everything is a good idea but the renegade option. And within the whole game all your "evil"/renegade choices are on the bootom right, from the dialogue wheel. So the reapers try to make Shepard think he does something cruel, something renegade and they deliver arguments only against this "red" ending.
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So why is the Starchild a child actually.
Well in the first scene, even in the trailers of ME3 you can see a small girl, or a small boy playing and fooling around and in the first Mission on earth you "see" the boy on various very strange locations, where noone else ever get a notice of that child.
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The Indoctrination, or kind of hallunization begins when the game begins.
The Starchild is noone less, then "all the childs shepard would not have rescued", its the child from the beginning. The Child from is dreams. Shepard dreams twice a dream where a forest with "oil shadows" appears and a boy is running away from him".
When you remember the rachni Queen in Mass Effect 1, she talks about "oil Shadows" and a blurred view.
This matches perfectly with Shepards dreams.
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So he is in the middle of an Indoctrination.
And the game suggest you, you managed it. You just made it. Problem solved.
But.
Sorry, but... but: There is only one right answer: Its Red. Renegade, the Destroy Ending unless you don't want to be indoctrinated.
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In my oppinion this is a freakin' Masterpiece of Storytelling and I just gave you glimpse of what is all insde the whole Indoctrination Theory. Is lesser a theory. Its more a Gathering ... or collection of facts, you encounter in the trilogy.
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Its Fact, that you use the dialogue wheel trough the whole 3 Games.
Its Fact, that the child, Shepard sees in ME3, beginning, Anderson does not see, nor notice.
Its Fact, that the Rachni talks about Oily Shadows and Shepard got similar dreams.
Its Fact, that if you choose the Red Ending, you can get a breathing Chest Ending.
Its Fact, that if you choose the Red Ending, Shepard straighten himself up when he decides to move to destroy it.
Its Fact, that you have "Deus Ex: Vibes" in the last moments of the game. Never heard of that Options before. The Reapers are in panic mode, they have to stop you at all costs.
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In My Oppionion Shepard just stands close to a console, and he is about to push "the one red button". But he can't, because something in his mind just tricks him not to do it.
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My newest, personal theory is, that not even the Red ending "really" ends the war. It just ends the indoctrination and the war probably finds a slow end... but... however, this is a topic for another time. First of all I hope I could have give you some more insight within the very very very intersting Indoctrination Theory. :D
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If you believe it ore not: I whish you a good time, saving your Galaxies, N7s ;)
Cheers
*salutes with her tinfoil hat*
Nice day to you too, sir!
There are so many more coincidences possibly making writers look much smarter than they really are but hell, it's too good.
The entirety of Mass Effect 3 is trippy with the Starchild reappering and just focus on Shepard's detoriating mental state. Also, mind control is a plot device usually used to make the main character choose between the right thing to do and their loved ones, make them distrust everyone around them. Nothing like that ever happens in Mass Effect. The only one accused of indoctrination is Udina and who really cares? Shepard is never faced with the conflict of having to kill her indoctrinated friends. So why is the indoctrination plotline even there?
Also the endings are obviously tied to the villains and their indoctrination never reached blabbering husk stages. Saren and Illusive Man had totally logical reasons for not wanting to destroy the Reapers - it's not like someone said "do that" and they did, they had to be convinced using feeding off their fears, ambitions and lack of knowledge about the Reapers. It's just how Starchild convinves you - not with orders and magic but with sound arguments.
And why is the Starchild's voice mix of female and male Shepard voice actors? Why? Just why? How were we not supposed to believe it happens in Shepard's mind? What else could the creators be trying to tell us?
Going back to the Inusannon, we do see one possible point of evidence of their presence (sort of) in the Omega DLC, Reeper Adjutant units, if you look at them, they do in some ways, look a bit like the Inusannon. What is interesting is that the Adjutant's spread via viral agents, which makes one wonder, what if the Inusannon did too, it also makes the virus that spread on the Omega station in Mass Effect 2, potentially more interesting.
Yeah, you convinced me on the Thorian. You have to realize that instead of killing the Thorian, maybe all you did was teach the Old Growth the value of a subtle, light touch, maybe even to the point of allowing the thralls to believe that they have free will and are just "really cooperative". After all, it is long lived enough to be able to afford to play the long game.
Mildly disappointed that the theory that the child (that we see killed in the opening scenes, in Shepard's dreams, and as the Crucible's VI) was the Reapers trying to convince Shepard to give up on trying to stop them. Evidence is thin - No one else interacts with the kid - there's no one in the courtyard where he's playing, Anderson doesn't see him or doesn't talk about seeing him in the vent, and no one on the escape shuttle helps him in/even notices him before the door is immediately closed. This is followed by a dream where Shepard can't save him, then a dream where Shepard can't save him and others lost after Tuchanka. You get the idea - trying to convince Shepard no one can be saved.
Another observation I came up with is that the adjutants from the omega dlc look like the inusannon, especially their faces as both have beard like tubes in their faces. Also, Cerberus were able to produce these things from a mysterious reaper virus which I think the reapers created it from harvesting the inusannon. I don't know but I thought I should share this
I started playing the mass effect saga two months ago by buying the legendary edition here in Brazil. Since then, this game became my top favorite rpg ever and I discovered your channel during my gameplays to answer some questions I’ve had and man… YOU ARE AMAZING WITH WHAT YOU DO!!! Keep up the good work big Dan! Greetings from Brazil 🇧🇷
Carai um brasileiro do nada
@@diogolima9588 Hahahaha Big Dan é bom demais mano eu não consigo para de ver ele... E vc se gosta dele e de mass effect é um cara gente boa tbm! tamo juntoooo
@@mattblacksoul1 Com certeza irmão, também assisto ele com muita frequência, esses vídeos relacionados a teorias e possibilidades principalmente, são os melhores. E mass effect eu diria que é a minha franquia de jogos favorita, universo riquíssimo, nunca enjoa. Tamo junto irmão
This coincides perfectly with the recent conclusion of my 84th playthrough of the series
While Legion does focus on saving his people, I don't think the intention of that scene is to deceive.
300 years of Quarian history made the Geth into the bad guys, so you aren't going to get an accurate account from them.
So, from a storytelling perspective, how would you give an unbiased account?
Legion’s interaction with the council is nuts.
“We think sovereign was just a Geth ship.”
“Hey, uh, we can’t make that kind of tech and I’m one of the most technologically advanced geth there is.”
“Yeah Shep your Geth is stupid and dumb because it contrasts my presuppositions.”
Regarding the moon of Thedas and the planet Klendagon, they are both just renderings of Mariner Valley, a real-life geological feature that exists on Mars.
My theory is that the Benefactor in Andromeda is actually the geth.
The Initiative would require tons of credits, so much that only an AI could get it without drawing attention.
The geth would be happy to work with Alec trying to establish a connection between organics and AI
We know that Initiative was able to map Andromeda using geth technology, showing they were observing it.
The geth are the only real group that could discover the Reaper threat and accept it before even Shepard did.
We know the geth will return in Mass Effect 4, and likely in a big way. ME4 is likely post Destroy ME3. How'd they survive? They were in Andromeda.
The weakest aspect is why kill Jien Garson? My thoughts are that the geth thought that the Initiative would be more open to AI, but they were still viewed as "murder bots", so they had to remove Garson before she revealed it and caused a panic or war.
Regarding Legion: the memories match what I'd pieced together as the likely reality. Whether they were or were not deep fakes, they supported information that I had gleaned from both sides throughout the trilogy.
I think the Banshee’s are created through pure blood Asari, since the codex mentions active or latent capabilities, and since all Ardat-Yakshi are pure blood Asari that might be the criteria for their creation.
No, they just need to be carrying the recessive gene to become a banshee. To be a full ardat yakshi they need to recieve both copies of the gene, meaning their parents both need to be carriers, and if one of their parents is non-asari that parents obviously can't be the carrier so the offspring won't be an AY, but they might be a carrier still. So AYs can only be pure bloods, but any asari could be a carrier and that's all the reapers need to make a banshee
Would that mean Liara can become a banshee?
23:12 That's probably because she wanted to be as forward with Shepard about the state of Zhu's Hope due to the calamity facing the galaxy. Like, being able to collectively work together as a unit tied by psychic connection is pretty powerful, but people would ask questions if you hid that fact. I always figured that she just wanted to be forward with Shepard due to the stakes. It's one of those times where you can't really lie with omission...I mean, the life of every last sentient being in the Galaxy was on the line.
8:13 your questions were answered in Mass Effect 2 and 3.
In Mass Effect 2, Samara says that to **her knowledge** the only Ardat-Yakshi were her daughters. In Mass Effect 3, she says that she hasn't been in contact with her daughters for several centuries. I just recently played the trilogy and I am 100% sure that this is correct.
Awesome video, and absolutely love 1 hour deep dives! Would love to see some of these make a return in the next game.
38:15
I don’t think those are statues nor beards…
We learned in a previous mission,that the reapers were planning to harvest the next advanced species.
If you look again. Those beards look more like tubes. In fact, there are tubes leading to the arms and eyes as well. So it looks like what was left behind was dried up bodies.
With what nutrients were extracted, allowed plants to take root and grow.
At least, that’s what I think.
I do kind of hope the next ME game answers some of the questions left by Andromeda. There is an easy way to do so if they want: if the Milky Way species were able to repair the Relay Network, that means they can probably build new ones. A trans-Galactic Relay would be possible, though of course it'd require someone to make the long trip over so they could build the Relay for the Andromeda side of the pair network. But that'd absolutely be worth doing if they are serious about colonizing the other galaxy.
And being attached to that other galaxy also gives the devs an opportunity to introduce a new big bad entity/faction to the Milky Way, since the Andromeda Galaxy outside the Heleus Cluster is basically wide open for the writing team to populate and utilize.
The Sweat thing is hilarious to me.
Someone was SO down bad for a fictional videogame alien,
that they made a fucking BIOCHEMISTRY SPREADSHEET for sweat...
How do we convince and motivate these types of people to help with curing real world diseases?
Indoctrination theory was either intended by some of the writers, regardless of what some of the developers say, or they just made a looooooot of editing and story mistakes and got lazy. It's far easier to assume at least some of it is true, though I don't like the notion that NONE of the end happens. I just think it's more likely that Shepard was under severe indoctrination attack at the end, and having to power through it.
Funny thing, the first time I played through Mass Effect 2, I didn't know anyone could die, because no one did. One of my friend told me and I was so happy about me decisions.
I cannot get enough of these deep dives into ME lore/theories. I click every single iceberg video haha, this was one of the better ones, so thank you for taking the time to put it together! Very enjoyable!
1) If that Virmire Survivor vs Liara thing happened, I would’ve always chosen the Virmire Survivor.
2) I like to think the events of the Dragon Age franchise happen in the same universe as ME, just very distantly in the past.
I like to think they take place in the same universe also but I don’t really get how the theory Dan mentioned would make any sense (magic being related to Element Zero somehow) since everything we know about it in ME it only affects the mass of objects & whatnot which wouldn’t explain people hurling lightning or fireballs, so I think if they do coexist lyrium would have to remain it’s own distinct thing from Eezo, maybe even a rare/unique element to Thedas
@@Dreadwing1000 well, if you rapidly decreased the mass of an object that would create huge amounts of heat.
Considering Eezo is also used for tech abilities like Incinerate, it actually makes it a good parallel with Lyrium and fireballs.
Also biotic abilities like Reave don't seem to have much to do with just the mass of an item.
@@Jane-oz7pp the way Reave works in lore is creating mini mass effect fields to disrupt the targets nervous system, the vampirism effect is simply a weird gameplay mechanic, and how would Eezo allow Morrigan to shape shift? And also incinerate is a ball of plasma fired from an Omni-Tool, it’s not directly related to Eezo
Considering the Thorian... I mean, it has a, and I quote: "massive sensory network." Just because Shepard took out the apparent center of that network doesn't mean he took out ALL of it. And it wouldn't be the only plant that can regrow from a small piece, as long as it has nutrients and water.
Problem is complex nerves are the absolute most energy demanding. You're about 200 pounds. Your brain is 1 pound. It consumes as much energy as all the rest of you combined.
@@Mortablunt That's fair. But if the thing's nerve clusters are spread out over miles and miles of land, then it's entirely possible parts of it are stilla round and can at least regrow.
For those who don't know, the Dark Energy Theory ending was the original ending for the Mass Effect series, but it was scrapped because the ending was leaked. Bioware panicked and had to delay the release of Mass Effect 3 when it was still in development because of the leak. They settled on the man vs machine storyline because they couldn't figure out a way to make dark energy ending work after it got leaked. They were worried about sales of the game with a leaked ending, so they decided to change it, push back the release date, and quickly throw in a new ending. The DLC that added Javik was to help solidify the new ending. That's why the ending was kind of garbage. They didn't really have time to rehash a new ending. That's why there's mention of dark energy destroying the star that Haestrom orbits. It was the plan to end it that way, not just a scrapped idea.
Aria also says something along the lines of how it's sometimes better to run away rather than be forced to kill someone :')
10:30 The codex tells you EXACTLY how you ran into so many Banshees despite the three "active" Ardat Yhakshi. If they have an "active or latent" potential to become one? The Reapers can use them for the job. It is entirely possible that several Asari have the POTENTIAL to become Ardat Yhakshi but have not had the aberrant gene activate. And that number of Asari is far larger since active ones are often killed because they won't live in a gilded cage.
Protheans could have done something akin to the Andromeda project, sent a ship with some of their people to another galaxy in hope that some would survive
Eh, the one about Legion lying to Shepard about the past of the Geth and Quarians... Legion only withheld information, never presented false information before. To human minds that would seem a distinction without a difference, but to them would be a huge difference.
As far as the Ardat-Yakshi thing I think it is more that they are created from regular Asari. The codex says the reapers select them from Asari with latent or active Ardat Yakshi genes. The Asari have made mating with other Asari taboo because the genes for an Ardat Yakshi are likely a recessive trait that is more likely to be passed on through 2 Asari rather than an Asari and an alien.
Yeah. Plus with how strong asari genes are. Even after mating with ANOTHER ENTIRELY ALIEN SPECIES, the asari retain their same looks. With genes like that, I can see how 2 asari genetics coming together could create the ability to kill instantly.
Just realized that the Leviathans and the Rachni queen have the same eye design and overall some similar elements. Hmm... 🤔
"Techno-Space-Magic Reasons" is my new band name
Illusive Man created Cerberus? I thought it was created by the Alliance as a black op and then went rogue.
This is how I know I need to touch grass: I had only not known about 4 of these.
A few notes:
-you missed/didn't mention that there were datapads in the monastery with messages between other ardat yakshi residents, so we know for a fact there are others
-it wasn't believed the angara were the only species in the GALAXY, just the Helius cluster
Great vid! Hope you do more long form content!
No need for grass touching; unless you're the literal fucking sweat scientist. That dude need to be chained to a post in the yard.
I really love listening to icebergs being explained in background while I do something else. Especially when the creator speaks about it with real passion like you. Thanks for that and many other of your videos about my favorite franchise, keep it up!
You know, i just played the Thorian mission on ME1 and there is a small detail, it seems to be heavily implied that Shiala was indoctrinated, she says that herself, she served with Benezia and Saren, and traveled onboard Soverign, maybe Shiala was able to break free for a moment to help Shepard like Benezia did, (and even Saren in the end if you can convince him) but we all know how that would end eventually.
So the green one on ME2 cant be the real Shiala if thats the case.
You get a message from her in ME3 stating that she can hear the reaper in her head but thorian leftovers are countering that.
@@Yakito666wasn’t that a news report?
Side note on the creation of the Reapers: while hundreds of thousands of years ago is technically correct, it's closer to hundreds of millions in scale. The disabled reaper where the IFF mission plays is some 37 million years old.
31:00 It's also possible that the Protheans might be hermaphroditic, like lilies or roses. I find it hard to believe that all aliens in the galaxy require 2 to tango, so to speak. And not all aliens have sexual binaries - the asari and the a hanar come to mind. Anyway, it's my headcanon that after the events of ME3, Javik takes it upon himself to repopulate the Prothean race, and self-produces a bunch of babies like a PlantSim in the Sims 2.
I think the Leviathans are smart enough to see “damn, they actually BEAT the Reapers” and given how there are only 3 of them…. I don’t think they’re making and moves anytime soon.
I got an interesting theory about the Thorian. Know what they have in common with Rachni Queens and the Leviathans? Their ability to control the minds of other organisms, or enslave their minds. And the Thorian and Rachni are all but exctinct, but the Leviathans are still around, more or less. I assume the Leviathans are the ones responsible for the near extinction of the Thorian and Rachni, because in the case of the Rachni, the Reapers are not the ones responsible for instigating the Rachni Wars. It's easy to believe the Reapers instigated the wars because there was no one else to blame until the Leviathan DLC opened up the possibility that the Leviathans were behind it all. The Leviathans like everyone to believe that they are an apex species, but what if they really weren't? The existence of the Thorian and Rachni proves that they aren't different or special.
"When you need a new problem, ask a salarian."
Mordin, future savior of the krogan race, standing right behind Shepard: "Unacceptable. No choice. Have to kill you." 😒
Great video!
For me Indoctrination Theory is the only way to make sense of the ending after all those years. And yes, it's a way of copium and I made my peace with that. Never forget Marauder Shields.
Also the true ending..... Shepard arm coming out of the rubble... That's after all the ending sequence ON EARTH and not much timr after Harbinger beam.
29:47 That smile Shep gives the Rachni Queen, it made me feel soooo good at the time, so much mutual respect, loved it!
I believe the most important line from Banshee codex is "active or latent" one. Active Ardat-Yakshi are like Samara's daughters, latent ones are the ones who carry their genes, but not AY themselves, like Samara. It is possible that latent AY were also encouraged to choose isolation in monastery. Considering the whole AY thing is asari equivalent of incest, it would be fair to assume that the more "pureblood", or "inbred", if you will, the asari gets, higher the chance of conceiving AY. It's a chance and not a certainty, as we know how Samara had three daughters, believing that this time result might be different. So she had, or at least believed that she could conceive a normal daughter, but no luck. But yeah, it's just a plot hole, after all, there's no definitive answer
Samara literally said "to my knowledge there are only 3 AY left" which implies she had no knowledge of the Monastery (later confirmed by Liara)
Also, the Monastery was full of AYs, but most of them had been turned by Reapers (confirmed by Samara)
your rant around 10 min is kinda crazy when the codex literally states, "latent predisposition" of Artdat-Yakshi is how you create a banshee. A latent predisposition is a underlying susceptibility to a disease or condition that isn't currently active but can be triggered under certain conditions.
In other words, some Asari are walking around with a predisposition to becoming an Artdat-Yakshi but it, never happened or hasn't happened yet.
Gotta say, Dan, I always learn something from your videos, even more than a decade since the trilogy ended. Thank you for delving into all this!
Another thing that was not covered in this video if timestamps are anything to go by (have not yet watched the video, sorry) is the origin of the Adjutants on ME3 Omega DLC. Supposedly they were a species from one of the previous cycles repurposed by the Reapers. I always found that intriguing for some reason.
8:45 Samara states that "as far as I know" which means for all she knows there could be more but she only knows of 3
On the Normandy, after a few conversations (which is easier to get to with the DLCs and the fact the game lets you play after the main story ends) Legion also interestingly references the dyson sphere that you see in ME3 as well.
This video has earned a subscription. I’ve played all the Mass effect games since they first came out and have always been interested in their lore but never looked up videos about them until now.
The dark energy plotline was much better then what we got
I keep trying to watch this video but it gives me the urge to play Mass Effect every 10 minutes.
I would highly recommend considering applying this approach to other series as well. I personally watched this entire video without checking the time, and it was incredibly entertaining. The time flew by
You definitely misquoted Samara. She said there are only 3 that she knows of. Not as if it was a defining statement.
I was there during the Bioware Social Forums existence. It was a pit of pure darkness, and I am ashamed I ever spent any time there. The only good thing it ever had was the tali helmet removal meme, where people shopped all kinds of things onto Tali's face after she takes the helmet off in ME2
I hope we get a vorcha crewmate and elcor crewmate in the next game both perspectives would be great and maybe a biotic god volus And might as well give us a jelly fish too!
That feels so weird though. Yeah sure let’s just ignore the lore we have for these races just for the sake of making them toys for the player to tinker with. Feels a bit too “video-gamey” to me but I suppose it’d be sorta cool