An amazing talk and very thought-provoking. This will be helpful to share within our church and the points will be useful to stimulate ongoing discussion.
The theological exposition at the start of this talk was very good. The application was not. It is noticeable that Dr. Imes' talk became much more vague around the 29 minute mark, when concrete data to support her assertions would have been needed. Instead she trafficked in cultural tropes and propagandistic memes that are now just swallowed up by Evangelical Christians as Gospel truths without any modicum of critical thought. On racial issues, it would be better NOT to listen to Evangelicals on this, because they have fallen for cultural propaganda (much of it aimed directly at them) that they seem incapable of recognizing as the political manipulation that it is. Instead I recommend people like Glenn Loury or John McWhorter, for one example, of people far more objective, and far more erudite, in their analysis of racial narratives and far more critical about the dangers of CRT (or any critical theory for that matter), neither of whom is Evangelical (McWhorter is an avowed atheist). BTW, both are black, not that that really matters, but many here will think it does. When it comes to environmental stewardship, does Dr. Imes think that Evangelical groups like The Cornwall Alliance (Dr. E Calvin Beisner) are doing nothing about this? I would strongly argue that groups like Cornwall are doing far more than Dr. Imes is willing to grant and, in part, because they simply research more and better than people who simply complain about the environment but never do the hard work of research as to what the best solutions to the problems are and to what degree government policies are effective in doing the work of stewardship. As to the issue of male headship, this also traffics in stereotypes. As a counterpoint, will Dr. Imes mention the high rate of women filing for divorce, even when there has been no instances of abuse? What about the practice (going back to the 80's) of women, "Christian women", falsely claiming abuse so as to steal children away from their fathers; a boon and a burden for many family law attorneys? Will these egregiously sinful acts on the part of "Christian" women ever be exposed? How easy is it today to accuse one of abuse and destroy the lives of children by ripping them away from fathers? Does anyone care about this? Does anyone care about young boys in this new "Evangelical" culture, a culture shaped far more by the thoughts of white men like Herbert Marcuse or Michel Foucault, than by non-whites like the early Church fathers or great Christian women like Mother Theresa. As far as "singles", I have yet to encounter an Evangelical church that DOESN'T have a singles ministry. However, I would be happy to support any churches that have a ministry dedicated to sexual chastity and the pursuit of chastity as a virtue. And, as to how to treat same-sex attracted men or women in the Church, why treat them in such a sacrosanct manner (which only further isolates them, in my opinion), as if men or women with same-sex attraction (or men and women of color) aren't also like the rest of us when it comes to the daily struggle with sin, with iniquity, and the pursuit of righteousness. This driving of a sociological wedge between Christians, or carving us up according to our particular social features, is the least Christian-manner of thinking I can imagine. It is most certainly not the product of biblical thinking, it is the product of a "Christian" culture that has been imbued with critical theory and post-modern modes of analyzing society. This shows an extreme lack of spiritual and intellectual discernment. We need to stop with this language of "gay" Christian "black" Christian, "white" Christian, "lesbian" Christian, "rich" Christian, "middle-class" Christian, "single" Christian etc., etc., This is just garbage. Let's pursue virtue and avoid vice, they are common to us all given our human nature, which seemed to be the main point of the first half of Dr. Imes' talk! As far as Christian women, let's take perhaps a great saint of the Church as our example: St. Catherine of Siena, a woman who in her short 33 years, served the poor without any thought of herself, never pursued out of personal ambition any position of power, never heralded or self-promoted her many spiritual (and intellectual) gifts, but constantly submitted them to authority, even the weak and feeble authority of Pope Gregory XI. And what did she accomplish in her submission of her whole self to Christ, she wrote over 400 letters to kings, Popes, cardinals and bishops, and to convents. Of course, Catherine herself was a Dominican nun, committed to chastity, austerity in her personal life, great devotion in her prayer life. Here is a giant among Christians, not some cheap intellectual looking to get lecture spots at universities or conferences so that they can feel "fulfilled" in their personal ambitions. How far woman have fallen in American Christianity, just like their counterpart, the American man.
Preach Dr. Carmen!!
An amazing talk and very thought-provoking. This will be helpful to share within our church and the points will be useful to stimulate ongoing discussion.
So glad you found it helpful, Leonard!
Very useful and needed talk. Thank you Carmen!
Glad you appreciate it!
Thanks Carmen for a wonderful talk. Will use this in our church.
Glad you appreciated this, Jun!
I appreciate every point she made.
Thanks for sharing the post!
Thank you, Grace!
nice comment there on "making the sandwiches" lol - i see what you did there ha ha -Brian
29 min in... whew.... did someone turn up the heat in here?? ugh ha ha 😬
The theological exposition at the start of this talk was very good. The application was not. It is noticeable that Dr. Imes' talk became much more vague around the 29 minute mark, when concrete data to support her assertions would have been needed. Instead she trafficked in cultural tropes and propagandistic memes that are now just swallowed up by Evangelical Christians as Gospel truths without any modicum of critical thought.
On racial issues, it would be better NOT to listen to Evangelicals on this, because they have fallen for cultural propaganda (much of it aimed directly at them) that they seem incapable of recognizing as the political manipulation that it is. Instead I recommend people like Glenn Loury or John McWhorter, for one example, of people far more objective, and far more erudite, in their analysis of racial narratives and far more critical about the dangers of CRT (or any critical theory for that matter), neither of whom is Evangelical (McWhorter is an avowed atheist). BTW, both are black, not that that really matters, but many here will think it does.
When it comes to environmental stewardship, does Dr. Imes think that Evangelical groups like The Cornwall Alliance (Dr. E Calvin Beisner) are doing nothing about this? I would strongly argue that groups like Cornwall are doing far more than Dr. Imes is willing to grant and, in part, because they simply research more and better than people who simply complain about the environment but never do the hard work of research as to what the best solutions to the problems are and to what degree government policies are effective in doing the work of stewardship.
As to the issue of male headship, this also traffics in stereotypes. As a counterpoint, will Dr. Imes mention the high rate of women filing for divorce, even when there has been no instances of abuse? What about the practice (going back to the 80's) of women, "Christian women", falsely claiming abuse so as to steal children away from their fathers; a boon and a burden for many family law attorneys? Will these egregiously sinful acts on the part of "Christian" women ever be exposed? How easy is it today to accuse one of abuse and destroy the lives of children by ripping them away from fathers? Does anyone care about this? Does anyone care about young boys in this new "Evangelical" culture, a culture shaped far more by the thoughts of white men like Herbert Marcuse or Michel Foucault, than by non-whites like the early Church fathers or great Christian women like Mother Theresa.
As far as "singles", I have yet to encounter an Evangelical church that DOESN'T have a singles ministry. However, I would be happy to support any churches that have a ministry dedicated to sexual chastity and the pursuit of chastity as a virtue. And, as to how to treat same-sex attracted men or women in the Church, why treat them in such a sacrosanct manner (which only further isolates them, in my opinion), as if men or women with same-sex attraction (or men and women of color) aren't also like the rest of us when it comes to the daily struggle with sin, with iniquity, and the pursuit of righteousness. This driving of a sociological wedge between Christians, or carving us up according to our particular social features, is the least Christian-manner of thinking I can imagine. It is most certainly not the product of biblical thinking, it is the product of a "Christian" culture that has been imbued with critical theory and post-modern modes of analyzing society. This shows an extreme lack of spiritual and intellectual discernment. We need to stop with this language of "gay" Christian "black" Christian, "white" Christian, "lesbian" Christian, "rich" Christian, "middle-class" Christian, "single" Christian etc., etc., This is just garbage. Let's pursue virtue and avoid vice, they are common to us all given our human nature, which seemed to be the main point of the first half of Dr. Imes' talk!
As far as Christian women, let's take perhaps a great saint of the Church as our example: St. Catherine of Siena, a woman who in her short 33 years, served the poor without any thought of herself, never pursued out of personal ambition any position of power, never heralded or self-promoted her many spiritual (and intellectual) gifts, but constantly submitted them to authority, even the weak and feeble authority of Pope Gregory XI. And what did she accomplish in her submission of her whole self to Christ, she wrote over 400 letters to kings, Popes, cardinals and bishops, and to convents. Of course, Catherine herself was a Dominican nun, committed to chastity, austerity in her personal life, great devotion in her prayer life. Here is a giant among Christians, not some cheap intellectual looking to get lecture spots at universities or conferences so that they can feel "fulfilled" in their personal ambitions. How far woman have fallen in American Christianity, just like their counterpart, the American man.