The 2004 Pitcairn Sexual Assault Trial
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- Опубліковано 29 бер 2024
- Unravel the dark secrets of Pitcairn Island in this gripping tale of mutiny, isolation, and justice. Explore the shocking events of the Mutiny on the Bounty and the harrowing Pitcairn Sexual Assault trial.
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Without getting into cultural relativism isn't there just an ethical standard where consent means consent? it's not even an age thing - taking advantage of somebody is taking advantage. "it's legal" is a very pathetic excuse for abusing a child.
Try explaining that to the Republicans when the LGBTQ+ community were fighting to have the right to marry and they were being compared to beastiality. One has consent and other not.
Try explaining anything to Republicans 🙄 @@jessifer23f
@@jessifer23fhow about how they try get children to transition without their parents knowing.
Aisha was the favorite of Prophet Muhammad's wives. He married her when she was six to seven years old and consummated the marriage when she was nine lunar years.
Muhammad is the ideal to be followed by all Muslim man. So your idea is islamophobic.
Aisha was the favorite of Muhammad's wives. He married her when she was six to seven years old and consummated the marriage when she was nine lunar years.
Muhamad is the ideal to be followed by all Muslim man. So your idea is islamophobic.
Abuse is abuse. Arguing its a cultural norm is a predator's argument... If you are actively harming someone, especially when its a coercive relationship, that is abuse. It isn't ambiguous, it isn't based on culture. Laws will vary between nations but abuse never changes. If a law says its okay and someone gets trauma from it, it was still abusive even if it was "legal".
Shut up you do gooder
Here’s the thing about the whole “culture” argument in regard to Pitcairn Island. The foundational, “native” population was made up of 8 English mutineers and 18 native Tahitians - 11 women and 7 men. In other words: that’s some bullshit.
Edit: oh, and shortly thereafter, 5 of the mutineers and ALL of the native men were murdered. Another mutineer was killed in self-defense and then one more died of “drunkenness.” The last TWO men then proceeded to force the remaining NINE women and NINETEEN children to convert to Christianity with a bible that had been onboard the ship they BURNED AND SANK IN THE BAY.
So, yeah… bullshit.
Exactly. It was set up to be a sexually coercive system from the beginning. Like the perps just went and made a perp paradise. Then calked it culture. I can't roll my eyes with disgust hard enough!@@waynepolo6193
Well abuse is abuse unless it's from women 😂
Moral relativism is not always applicable. Some things are just evil and barbaric. This is an example of that.
Christian ethicists have pointed out the absurdity of secular humanism; we are descended from apes, therefore love one another.
This is...insanely dark.
Thank you also for highlighting that this was not a once-off or an isolated incident, that this sort of thing is happening to millions of people still right now.
Nah, just a whataboutist excuse.
If a child groes up and then has an adult relationship with their childhood abuser it does not excuse the paedophilia. A child can not consent. An adult with a history of being abused doesnt have robust boundary setting. Open to coersion, exploitation, normalisation of abuse. Its just wrong. Any unequal power dynamic is exploitative. Consent, boundary setting, expectation and esteem all need to be taught to our kids.
I literally just got done watching a video on Villi Falau and Mary Kay Letourneau. You are exactly correct.
@@hannahp1108 Dreading? I watched it earlier today as well😅
@@TwinBleaksYup. That was a rough video to get through. A well done video, but Mary Kay Letourneau makes me want to puke
@@hannahp1108 I feel so bad for Villi Falau--the poor man's being victimized day after day. :(
Are you trying to imply that a citizen can never consent to the actions of the government, because of the inherent exploitative nature of the unequal power dynamic? 🤡
Before you grab your pitchforks, it's not my intention to defend what has happened there.. I'm only pointing out the obvious parallel here, Pitcairn being a small patriarchal community; and the fallacy of your moral double standard if you're not willing to apply the same harsh condemnation on a broader scale. What is a pat-down if not a government mandated indecent assault? Should a stranger have higher authority over your own children, than the parent? Especially in a community so small where the highest local authority is your nextdoor neighbor? If you wouldn't be comfortable with that, then how do you justify relinquishing that agency to a stranger, who doesn't even know you exist, in some faraway capital? If you wouldn't be comfortable with that, then under what authority were those men prosecuted?
The deeper one goes into this rabbithole, the more obvious it is that free will and government are mutually exclusive on the long term and the ever increasing surveillance and erosion of privacy isn't something one can vote away. It's inherent in our political system.
Now you may grab the said pitchforks. May some morsels of these thoughts echo in your heads in the years to come.
🍻
Australian here - I remember this case. Around that time there was also a case of murder(?) on Norfolk Island which required the DNA testing of the entire island. Norfolk is where all of the original Pitcairn Islands moved to in the late 1800's(?) after they tried to close the island but a few years later, some decided to return to Pitcairn. Norfolk had not just remnants of the Bounty crew there but also had been the site of the WORST convict prison and some of the inmates had stayed after release. Basically, you were sent to Australia - if you continued to misbehave you were sent to Port Arthur, if you kept on to misbehaving - you were sent to Norfolk Island and it was a one way trip. I believe during WWII, a small airstrip was built on NOrfolk but everything still mainly comes in via sea.
The situation between the two islands is that IIRC Norfolk is under the jurisdiction of Australia but Pitcairn is under UK rules.
The Bounty crew turned out not that charming in fact. Probably also set the tone for future generations.
Isn’t Australia under UK rule ? Or ?
@@rexochroy2 we are a part of the Commonwealth and King Charles is our head of State, but we make our own laws etc, same as Canada, New Zealand etc.
ah, no@@rexochroy2
The words “child bride” should be even illegal to say. The fuck.
“Randy Christian.” There’s an unfortunate name if I ever heard one.
😂😂😂😂
That's so nice of you to have not said the word INBRED even once.
The family tree is a circle.
Probably because it's implied. 🤷
the original genetic base was wide enough to avoid that problem!!!
I need a script on this topic for brainblaze and an inbred counter in the corner of the video
@@keithmoore5306that's not how it works
Cultural relativism? The original “native” population was made up of 8 English mutineers and 18 native Tahitians - 11 women and 7 men. In other words: that’s some bullshit.
5 of the mutineers and ALL of the native men were then murdered due to jealousy and infighting. Another mutineer was killed in self-defense and then one more died of “drunkenness.” The last TWO men then proceeded to force the remaining NINE women and NINETEEN children to convert to Christianity with a bible that had been onboard the ship that they BURNED AND SANK IN THE BAY so that nobody could ever leave.
In other words… bullshit.
The entire original female population of the island was kidnapped from their native Island by the male mutineers.
No they went voluntarily with men they’d formed relationships with when the crew stayed there for months. A number of men went too. Young people seeking adventure.
They went voluntarily after been given the option by their tribal chief .
It's a fascinating case of isolation and highlights the reality of male dominance without rules and customs.
just like the Amish
You should always respect other people's cultures.
Right up until that culture decides to make the systematic abuse of women and children an integral part of itself.
No cultural norm gives anyone the right to violate another person's human rights.
Or the systematic abuse of any group, really.
@@i.b.640
100%
Cultures should always be subject to any needed criticism, otherwise we'd still have child "brides" & Vendetta as a norm thruout the world.
Reminds me of Jews in Palestine
@TerpsNtacos
I agree
Being a victim of genocide does not give a people the right to perpetrate one
Wait, didn't you made also a video on this at *Highlight History*
_What Really Happened After the Mutiny on the Bounty_
yeah... he does that from time to time
Idc who may try and find any sort of justification, sleeping with a 12 year old as an adult is disgusting and should be punished legally willingly.
I visited Pitcairn in 1997. I met a number of these folks. Crazy.
Likewise but a few years after you, Pitcairn is, ah, different, huh?
Them: "It'S oUr CuLtUrE!"
Me: The Culture is dogshit
Exactly
Me: your judgement of others is shit of all kinds 💩
it's backwards and disgusting. I feel so bad for all the women and children that were born there aginst their will
Too late, this is now a postmodern world where it is accepted that your morals are no more right (or wrong) than mine.
So they are savages cannibals etc and you are civilized ok
This reminds me of the bride burning in India. When a man died his wife was placed (alive) on his funeral pyre. When the British saw this, they fought to have it stopped and outlawed. Many of the Indians (mostly men) said it was their religious right and part of the culture. It still happens in India tho mostly in rural areas.
Yup. Then the British showed the cultural "gallows"... they don't burn their wives anymore, at least not as widespread as it used to be
No it doesn't happen now. Stupid
Living in NZ i most definitely remember this when it hit the headlines
Har har. As if NZ exists
Here in Australia I remember it as well.
What does where you live have anything to do with this story. Tosser.
all the appeals and fight against the sentences after this trial are just as shocking.
Not that shocking when u think about it. Look at all the ppl who came out to defend bret kavanaugh, Donald Trump, Andrew tate and more. Lots of ppl have this disgusting mentality unfortunately
Are you for real? Lol.
Bloody hell. I’d never ever heard of this. Thank you for sharing.
The fact that this happened is insane. My prayers go out to the victims.
How does that help?
Now you need to do. video on Tysford Sami & Lund assault cases where there were 151 cases of SA in Norway.
Sounds like that could be a casual criminalist script
My question to that age of consent argument they made on Pitcairn is, did the children consent to that age of consent? Probably not
Raises some interesting questions: age of consent laws and other laws meant to protect children are entirely made by adults.
An interesting paradox. Can someone who has not reached the age of consent consent to an age of consent?
Pitcairn and its history are fascinating. Thanks for the account!
Simon is like a Modern Conquerer of UA-cam content territory. Everytime he explores a new side of content to provide, he successfully provides it, leaving settlers to take care of the day to day of his old channels
It is fascinating to be alive to witness it.
Thankyou for not simply turning this into yet another salatious juicy click bait story.
Hernán Cortés has entered the chat
Dang. Simon's videos are normally fairly light-hearted and I'd try to come up with some funny comment to post, but this really is a dark topic.
Have you not watched Casual Criminalist? 😅
@@troyamundson289No, but thank you for the recommendation. For better or worse, I just subscribed. 😟
@@troyamundson289No, but thank you for the recommendation. For better or worse, I'm now subscribed. 😟
Diddy do it, or diddy not?
Welcome to into the shadows
Diddy do it? Diddy did it.
I bet if they do a thorough search on that island, plenty of heinously dark acts would float to the surface.
That is not unique to Pitcairn Island or anywhere else as you know.
@@elizabethsohler6516 ah yes, an isolated island ran by deserters that treat woman like property that even england wants to shut down is not unique🥴😉😂🤣
* laughs in Norfolk, St Helena and Ascension Islands *@@TheOrbitalmadness
I remember Dankula doing this video and I was absolutely gobsmacked hearing about their "Cultural values"
Right but in the west respecting the cultural values of other regions is above all
@@vrcmf3172 even paedophilia?
it is a UK territory @@vrcmf3172
@@vrcmf3172 apparently not because the west tried and punished all those involved here
@@vrcmf3172 even interfering with kids and members of one's own family? Some respecting there
Has anyone payed attention to this island since this happened?
The British Territories of Saint Helena and Ascension Islands have been dogged by this same issue, just on a larger scale for a longer time.
I fully understand differences in culture accounting for a younger age of consent. Many cultures around the world have ages of consent below 18. However, the fact that there was evidence of physical abuse among the children tells you that this was not a practice that was entirely consented to or totally accepted by the culture. There is a place for an explicit legal framework to govern this sort of stuff so everyone in the society can agree on what's appropriate and what's not.
Ok, this starts with a misstatement that matters. Bligh was not "eventually picked up" They sailed that open boat thousands of miles to the port Bligh had chosen after being abandoned. And only lost one man. That was a story you really should tell in detail.
His was truly masterful bit of navigation.
I'd read that he conducted activities in that boat like they were still onboard the ship.
All the same tasks and duties, just on a smaller scale.
Sounds like an island asking to be invaded.
It was the original invaders, the European mutineers, who started this culture of the rape and abuse of the native girls/women on the island.
Sounds like a Jeffrey Epstein paradise.
Or like half the Muslim world
@@canaanite23
Or like half of the organised religions in the US
@@Vee_of_the_Weald at least for Pakistan I believe around half of the marriages are first cousin, it's a "cultural" thing, even heard stories of girls born in America being flown over there to marry a cousin they've never met lmao but yeah I'm sure the south is just as bad, moral relativism much?
@user-qq6rr2je4q Best hope the law catches ya, cause if'n her kin get ahold of ya, they gonna take ya out into them darkest woods. Nail yer scrote to a stump, push ya over backwards and leave ya for the snakes and critters. They might find yer bones in a few years or maybe not. Cheers from Tennessee
When men make the rules, or dictate a religion, it’s amazing how it adapts and gets regulated, around the savage nature of Men, and stomps all over women 😢
HILF podcast just knocked out a brilliant two parter on this.
The theme of the videos lately is captivating :)! Thanks Into the Shadows.
Now you need to do a similar exposee on Papua New Guinea. The stories from there make Pitcairn look mild.
They should just have said it was part of a religious rite. That's the usual loophole for beasts.
With god, all things are possible
Didn't we already do this one? On another channel
This episode really should have been 10x as long. This felt like a Whistler ClifNotes version, out of character for the channels like ITS, DTU, TCC, etc.
I’m sorry the name of the writer is not listed, but whoever you are-thank you!
In the Vatican, the age of consent was also 12, until 10 years ago.
Not true
Funny how some dewdz fantasize about low ages of consent.
WHY do you know that??
not true stop spreading lies just to make christinaity look bad open a bible go on google and research the facts heretic
I don't think religions ever consider consent.
The movie with Anthony Hopkins was great
If Pitcairn comes under UK law then the age of consent must be 16.
Content is great but background music slightly too loud which distracts from the dialogue
That’s horrible.😩
You can make excuses all you want abuse is still abuse. What's the chance any of the victims could refuse their abusers and still live on such a small island? Consent is one thing but being forced in anyway IS abuse and needs to be prosecuted and punished accordingly.
Modern Western World should not be allowed to force their laws on other countries and cultures.
8:40 okay I see the conundrum. My solution would be to change the law. “Sorry this went unnoticed this long” (seriously how) “but most of you were acting in accordance with this questionable law. So here’s the new law, if you break it you go to jail for ever. Okay?? Okay”
I wonder what the standard is for isolated indigenous peoples? Does western ideas on ages of consent apply? The concept, for example in America, is a relatively new one with roots in 1920s feminism which helped to set the standard at 18. But before the 1920s it varied wildly or was non existent and does not appear in any religious texts.
What if I were to tell you that a similar underage sex practice is done in plain view in an European Union country, also in the name of cultural practices? In Romania, where I am originally from, Gypsies marry their children at 11, 12, 13 yrs of age. Officially it is just a ceremonial wedding, not to be effective before the age of consent (16). In practice, those girls give birth at 13-14, so this is not simply a cultural ceremony but a true marriage. And I am sure that should it be forbidden and some parents would end up in jail, many in their community would be outraged of breaching their culture. Luckily for them, being seen as a minority, they benefit from more understanding from authorities than the rest of the citizens.
How did this got UK attention to begin with! This had been the norm until someone notified the outside world!
The millionth time Im gonna say this on one of Simon's videos Count Dankula has a video about the mutiny and the Pitcairn Islands
And so has hundreds of others, numerous news reports were made on it etc. So what's your point exactly?
Video story aside, how did I find Simon from Casual Criminalist, and by chance find this video to listen to only to discover that SIMON is the narrator..... Simon needs to put his voice into movies!
Someone should look into isolated native villages in the Alaskan bush. You'll find very similar activity.
So an international law banning remote/ isolated groups is needed then ?
Read the story about the beginnings of the island, it's no excuse, but an understanding of a very unique situation. Just saying. ✌️
I have an Amish friend and they say “ old enough to bleed old enough to butcher “
Sadly there's a culture of child sexual abuse among the Amish also.
Yikes!
Ouch, how long til your butt stopped bleeding? 😂😂
Sadly, sexual abuse of under-age girls (and boys) among remote Aboriginal communities in Australia continues to this day, despite various government-funded reports over the years which advocate intervention to stop it. The conclusions of a 2001 investigation included: ‘The silence of the victims has brought so much fear and pain into their lives. The silence of families has caused a breakdown in our cultural and moral values, and the silence of the abuser has meant little hope of them getting the sort of help they need.’
'They have been deprived of the most basic human right of children - ‘childhood’. R (Australia)
One important piece left out of this story is how the women who were subjected to sexual activities at an earlier age developed......i.e., how did the sexual activity with these men affect them psychologically and emotionally? This is a crucial question, all legalities (and extreme cases, e.g., abuse of girls under 'consent' age of 12) aside, because it 'might' be that in this isolated community with its own norms and culture, such activities may not have had the expected serious impact on the women involved. It would be interesting to know.
So our police don’t mind too investigating these things in the Pitcuirs but don’t think it’s necessary for Rothdale
👍💯
a dark topic for sure, but also shows other problems, also the way the judges handeld it can defenitly see the problems from the groups perspective but what is going on was uniqe, if lets sey 500 lived on the island thing would been diferent on how long people got most likely because 6 people going to prison would have less of an impact than on a island of 47 people. i think the judges did a good job with all the problems they was facing there and yea, defenitly correct of having the trail in question on the island so the judges would understand more of the impact long prison sentences would have had if lets sey to the fullest extent of the law. in a big city far away from the location and judges never even been there and not had a lot of knowledge about the location either yea it could have been devestating for the comunity at large did they personaly deserve long times behind bars? potential, and probably, would it have impacted the comunity in a negative way? defenitly. was it a good solution? honestly i think it was the best one that could be done there considering amount of people that lived there. also we only her the sentence in regard to time behind bar etc, we did not learn about the compensation to the victims.
I mean there's only ~40 people on the island. It would be pretty simple to "fix the culture".
Kia ora
This is a really important point rn, and I had entirely forgotten about it. It shows just how backward & savage Pākehā are. Lucky for the poms who settled here, us Māori were able to save them from themselves.
The same argument could be made for the days of Cortez, and the eding of a religious blood cult.
The reality is that because Pitcarin Island only had/has a small population of people and the island is a part of Britian, Britian didnt have to worry about handling this case delicately as to avoid an international incident/conflict/war.
Had Britian tried this with the USA I wouldnt be suprised if the USA just rolled their eyes and ignored Britian. Unfortunately some states in the USA do allow child marriages.
The problem with enforcing views on other countries and therefore other cultures is that it would become a complicated mess.. I am not just talking about views regarding csa/sa. Im talking about all the views.
How would it be decided who was in charge? Mass war? A representative from every country coming together to create universal law? A straw draw?
It would start off with good intent but then where is the line in the sand?
Who would decided what views needed to be thrusted onto other countries? Which views are good and which are bad? The obvious ones that are bad can likely be easily agreed on but what about the lesser obvious ones?
How would it be determined if each country is complying with universal laws?
Even someone with the purist of hearts would be tempted by that power. What assurance would be given that official(s) would be removed before they become corrupt?
It would be a massive headache, need to be handled delicately and would cost a ton of money.
I think the best place to start would be a universal standard of education backed by science and facts; this would create competition amongst the countries.
A required standard education (as opposed to a cherry picked version or no education at all) would allow a population to thrive well because the people are properly educated as children and later as adults. This can translate into well educated people being placed into important positions of government.
Make sure the standard is being complied with and I think more people of every country would begin to start changing the laws for the better on their own. They wouldn't have to wait around for someone more educated than them to do something to change laws.
The British managed to impose their legal and societal norms all over the world for decades. "The sun never sets..."
Super gross. I remember when this all transpired.
So...Casual Criminalist written by David coming in a few months?
France's age of consent was 12, till 2021, when they raised it to 15!
The original mutineers didn't bring enough women, and treated the native men as slaves. Most of the mutineers were killed in a native uprising.
"Small island is funny kind of a place."
Please, please stop adding “background” music!
The original rapists, mutineers of that time would smile if they could see us talking about them 200 years later.
I would guesss that if you live on an island in the middle of the ocean with 46 other people, that everyone is very inbred
Unsurprising.
Lol I thought my playback speed was too high. Slow down just a little bit please. We like the more relaxed voice.
Says you. I watch all videos sped up 😂
Slow it down then. There's those of us that speed up many videos
Seriously. I had this playing on my phone sitting next to me, and I kept subconsciously checking to make sure one of my critters wasn't touching it and making it accelerate into the chipmunk-zone.
I just gave up and read the subtitles, because I can read faster than I can process auditory language (traumatic brain injury; I be spheshul).
It isn’t complex. Just a normal human issue of having power with little or no checks and balances to keep people honest and accountable.
If children or not involved I would be a lot more forgiving due to historical understanding. However, since children are involved, this is a murky gray area for me.
Literally, yes, we do have the right to spread our morals and ethics in cases like this. This isnt up for debate.
So....the wife of one of the guys was accused was totally okay with her husband sexually assaulting children while being married to him? That's so unbelievably creepy. Sounds like Handmaid's Tale.
Edited to fix typo.
Just leave kids alone.
Jeffrey Epstein was here
My thoughts exactly.
On a tiny island there's little to do, and this was arguably exciting to the men.
Or it could be that men with those tendencies fathered more children until it became a cultural norm through genetic selection. It is a human trait after all; natural selection cares little about how that ghengis khan was a not nice person, but the offspring he had.
Where do you think he got the idea
Randy Christian.......
To address your question, we have laws to reflect our ethics not laws to create our ethics.
If your only ethical guide is, "this is legal" or "this is not legal," your ethical universe is weak and basic.
Sometimes, things are legal but then we decide they are unethical, and sometimes things are ethical but we decide they are illegal.
I think this was the basis for my first lecture in a 101 philosphy course at university.
Second, the have the "UN bill of rights," which is an ethical code that is meant to cover everyone on the planet.
Is that imposing our Western cultural biasis on people, probably. But, it gives us a yardstick to have a conversation about whether somehtings fits inside of 'international norms of behavior'
Third, we have laws to debate issues and I hope that the community of Pitciarn for the conversation about sexual consent to be empowering and wonder how the open conversation changed the life of future generations of women.
Fourth, many sexual taboos exist because of real biological facts. For example, having children with you cousin can cause Habsburg jaw, hemophila, and other severve birth defects. Most cultures have a taboo against insect because they realised that this was detrimental to the children produced by the act of sex. Also, when very far from medical care it is worth considering that child birth has been historically very dangerous for women and child. Most cultures forbid early sex for women not because the younger a women is when she gives birth the likley she, the child or both will die in the process. A 12 year old having a baby without access to emergancy medical care is simply dangerous. And, ancient cultures knews this.....
It's important for societies to be able to have converstations about ethics.
I thought that no-one was proven innocent.
Findings of factual innocence do occur, though they are rare. I assume he just misspoke in this case, but I don't know for sure.
Not a casual criminalist?
At this point they should just forcibly evacuate the island and expatriate them to separate towns.
4:47 maybe have morals??
I bet this isle is where p.diddy is gonna hide
Is the voice sped up or something? It sounds like it, really bothers me lol
Sounds like ai
Sounds like Simon after way too many coffees to me.
@@Vee_of_the_Weald lmao, wish it was only that.
There's some quality to the sound of the audio that sounds very reminiscent of audio that's been sped up.
You're probably not wrong that Simon had too many coffees, considering the amount of content he uploads. The dude's a real one
12 🤢🤢🤢
AI voice is creepy
Argentina, please liberate these islands instead
Imagine ppl defending these sick people.
To be found not guilty is not the same as being innocent. It just means there wasn't enough evidence to convict.
The West was a bully in this case.