Saw a local DE once where the French-gripper was a 6'10" male and the opponent was 4'10" female. She got inside his guard and just mauled him. He never had a chance.
the last nationals i went into (FES.. all three glutton for punishment and when I could fence but getting worse movement wise...) the veterans epee I bombed out in the first round, drew 3rd in the DE, I was 30th - but I noted he was using french and pommeling (also a lot taller than me...lol) and i was using pistol... I remembered tactic against a pommel-er - aggressive and take blade a lot (they wont be able to have strong grip on the blade holding only the pommel for a second) - i won easily .. people were shocked as a bottom seeder (and i hadn't been on the fencing scene for a couple of decades) beat the guy who won the event the previous years.... funnily enough we became good friends from then on and we discussed fencing styles often....
I agree about the pressure part, but this is not the sort of pressure I was expecting. I've taught shorter epee fencers how to deal with tall, extended french grip fencers. It normally comes down to playing your strength, blade control, pushing them back, and not giving them the chance to counterattack. Extended french fencers always want to turn the bout into a reach game (their advantage) and not a blade control game (their disadvantage). So small footwork, arm back, ready to parry but not riposte at anything they throw at you, keep pushing. I say don't riposte because the extended french will use that as an opportunity to remise against the arm. Push them to the back of the strip so that they are forced to commit to a real attack that you can parry riposte against, because they have no strip left behind them to let them set up a proper remise.
You're definitely not wrong! Pressure can be apply and interpreted in many ways, having fenced both of these fencers, I know that LAN really really wants to attack, its one of his strengths, to me if Max waits to push him to the back, which is definitely a valid tactic. It gives LAN to many chances to spot timings to go in. So in my mind Max is fencing with one of his strengths which is creating chaos! Leaving LAN in a confusing situation.
Can we start a discussion about how you would deal with pressure like this from your opponent? One touch from the Chinese fencer caught Max when he wasn't ready, while Max was trying to release pressure for a moment. I think the the Chinese fencer would have been successful had he tried to follow Max. Rushing can be an issue if you try to chase someone down as the pull you, but if the Chinese fencer had tried to maintain the distance as Max runs away it would prevent Max from choosing the next moment of pressure. The Chinese fencer has now chosen the moment of pressure and can make short attacks from far away to keep that pressure a threat and also not get sucked into a strong defense. Any other thoughts on winning tactics against an opponent so adept at creating pressure?
This is probably my favorite comment so far! The way to beat alot of of people people like max who throw an overwhelming amount information to create chaos is to not reply to it and stay as objective as possible. Even with Max's style if that bout goes over one period its very hard to keep this up during a long bout. So if you take away inattention hits like the first 2 hits that Max got, the bout dynamic completely shifts. If you look at where these first hit happens its basically in the middle of the strip, to some extent there was a conscious decision to react, hard to say if its fear of being pushed back or that way his plan. To me: Take away the surprise factor by not over reacting and force a more conventional style. Survive the first period because creating some much false info is not sustainable and eventually win the bout. Unfortunately I don't have a crystal ball but maybe max had a plan if he couldn't shake LAN but since it worked so well he chose to close the bout in 1 period.
@@GPFencing great analysis! 2 questions: 1)How do you think distance control plays into this? I find it difficult to be ready all the time if my oppenent dictates distance and therefore when touches can potentially happen. 2) What do you recommend doing to actually execute your advice? Understanding why you're getting hit is part of it, often my students can tell me why, but most of them struggle with finding a solution. (I am still a coach in training. My master is very good, but I seek fencing knowledge from anywhere I can)
@@connerjohnston1391 1) It's abit more of how we choose to react to it since its hard to actually control any distance here. The goal to me is to delay every point as much as possible and win the war of attrition, fencing this crazily like Max has an expiry date. Easier said than done obviously, things like staying in safe distance with absence of blade with the only intention of fulling retreating when Max launches an attack, then to only bring up the tip here and there just to let him know we are watching. 2)Good start would be to force yourself or students to not initiate any attacks in the first 15-20 secs of a point to force development and less gambling. The goal is to punish those who try to rock paper scissors in the middle and learn to read what our opponent might do. Hope this helps!
Saw a local DE once where the French-gripper was a 6'10" male and the opponent was 4'10" female.
She got inside his guard and just mauled him. He never had a chance.
the last nationals i went into (FES.. all three glutton for punishment and when I could fence but getting worse movement wise...) the veterans epee I bombed out in the first round, drew 3rd in the DE, I was 30th - but I noted he was using french and pommeling (also a lot taller than me...lol) and i was using pistol... I remembered tactic against a pommel-er - aggressive and take blade a lot (they wont be able to have strong grip on the blade holding only the pommel for a second) - i won easily .. people were shocked as a bottom seeder (and i hadn't been on the fencing scene for a couple of decades) beat the guy who won the event the previous years....
funnily enough we became good friends from then on and we discussed fencing styles often....
I agree about the pressure part, but this is not the sort of pressure I was expecting. I've taught shorter epee fencers how to deal with tall, extended french grip fencers. It normally comes down to playing your strength, blade control, pushing them back, and not giving them the chance to counterattack. Extended french fencers always want to turn the bout into a reach game (their advantage) and not a blade control game (their disadvantage). So small footwork, arm back, ready to parry but not riposte at anything they throw at you, keep pushing. I say don't riposte because the extended french will use that as an opportunity to remise against the arm. Push them to the back of the strip so that they are forced to commit to a real attack that you can parry riposte against, because they have no strip left behind them to let them set up a proper remise.
You're definitely not wrong!
Pressure can be apply and interpreted in many ways, having fenced both of these fencers, I know that LAN really really wants to attack, its one of his strengths, to me if Max waits to push him to the back, which is definitely a valid tactic. It gives LAN to many chances to spot timings to go in.
So in my mind Max is fencing with one of his strengths which is creating chaos! Leaving LAN in a confusing situation.
The way the blade bent on the 2-0 point gave me chills. I know, that this is not the worst way for a blade to bend, but still.
I feel personally attacked because I am both tall and a french grip.
Great analysis, love your vids generally.
Heinzer is fun to watch. He seems to love the fleche.
Master class from Heinzer
Can we start a discussion about how you would deal with pressure like this from your opponent? One touch from the Chinese fencer caught Max when he wasn't ready, while Max was trying to release pressure for a moment. I think the the Chinese fencer would have been successful had he tried to follow Max. Rushing can be an issue if you try to chase someone down as the pull you, but if the Chinese fencer had tried to maintain the distance as Max runs away it would prevent Max from choosing the next moment of pressure. The Chinese fencer has now chosen the moment of pressure and can make short attacks from far away to keep that pressure a threat and also not get sucked into a strong defense.
Any other thoughts on winning tactics against an opponent so adept at creating pressure?
This is probably my favorite comment so far! The way to beat alot of of people people like max who throw an overwhelming amount information to create chaos is to not reply to it and stay as objective as possible.
Even with Max's style if that bout goes over one period its very hard to keep this up during a long bout.
So if you take away inattention hits like the first 2 hits that Max got, the bout dynamic completely shifts. If you look at where these first hit happens its basically in the middle of the strip, to some extent there was a conscious decision to react, hard to say if its fear of being pushed back or that way his plan.
To me: Take away the surprise factor by not over reacting and force a more conventional style. Survive the first period because creating some much false info is not sustainable and eventually win the bout.
Unfortunately I don't have a crystal ball but maybe max had a plan if he couldn't shake LAN but since it worked so well he chose to close the bout in 1 period.
@@GPFencing great analysis! 2 questions: 1)How do you think distance control plays into this? I find it difficult to be ready all the time if my oppenent dictates distance and therefore when touches can potentially happen. 2) What do you recommend doing to actually execute your advice? Understanding why you're getting hit is part of it, often my students can tell me why, but most of them struggle with finding a solution.
(I am still a coach in training. My master is very good, but I seek fencing knowledge from anywhere I can)
@@connerjohnston1391 1) It's abit more of how we choose to react to it since its hard to actually control any distance here. The goal to me is to delay every point as much as possible and win the war of attrition, fencing this crazily like Max has an expiry date. Easier said than done obviously, things like staying in safe distance with absence of blade with the only intention of fulling retreating when Max launches an attack, then to only bring up the tip here and there just to let him know we are watching.
2)Good start would be to force yourself or students to not initiate any attacks in the first 15-20 secs of a point to force development and less gambling. The goal is to punish those who try to rock paper scissors in the middle and learn to read what our opponent might do.
Hope this helps!
What a video keep it up
at 13-10, bloody Max is just doing his gym pylometric training routine!!! I have seen some of his training routine....jumping up then lunge or flech
When you try to focus on bout but you notice a fellow league player
This is a great topic. Lol
Jung Jinsun- very entertaining (and one of if not the GOAT) french grip fencer
Agreed, definitely one of the greatest,
I have some plans with some of hit bouts in the future, do you have a favorite bout of his?
@@GPFencing Park (Sangyoung) v Minobe is a great bout imo
Max is irritating as fuck but damn, he's a good fencer.
A great fencer!, Easily one of the best ever!
@@GPFencing I'd give him that too.